BBC Home

Explore the BBC

Front Page

Life | The Universe | Everything | Advanced Search
 
Front PageReadTalkContributeHelp!FeedbackWho is Online
New visitors: Create your membership
Returning members: Sign in
 
This is the Conversation Forum for SEx - Science Explained Forum
<< SEx: Weather
SEx: Is 'space' a character? >>

Subject: Fake bomb detection?
Posted Nov 4, 2009 by
Potholer
 
Posting 1

Next Posting
I just saw this article

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/w...d/middleeast/04sensors.html?_r=1&hp

about expensive and seemingly entirely useless (according to the US military) explosives detectors being sold to Iraq.

Seems it's just a case of cheap-to-build crap being sold at ridiculous prices, either to people who know nothing, or (more likely) to people who are in on the scam.

Surely, if there was any value at all in the things, advanced/honest military forces would already be using them, and the firm would be famous?

Reply
Read the First Reply to this Posting

Click here to register a complaint about this Posting
Subject: Fake bomb detection?
Posted Nov 4, 2009 by
Ictoan S.H.A.D.O.W. Secretary - AWE - WAWi
This is a reply to this Posting  
Posting 2

Previous PostingNext Posting
oooh, that rings a bell. JREF have investigated similar devices and they don't get any indication of effectiveness. The US Military is correct (blimey, did I just say that?) but the way the Iraqi buyers are defending it tends to indicate they've either been comprehensively scammed or are in on it. I suspect the former from the comment "Whether it’s magic or scientific..." from the article.

Just goes to show the ethics of purveyors of woo - this is going to cost in lives never mind money.


Reply
Read the First Reply to this Posting

Click here to register a complaint about this Posting
Subject: Fake bomb detection?
Posted Nov 4, 2009 by
Whisky
This is a reply to this Posting  
Posting 3

Previous PostingNext Posting
The weird thing is, if the iraqi military believe it works, and more importantly, if the people making the bombs believe it works, then it _does_ work... It'll stop anyone carrying a bomb attempting to get through military checkpoints.

Reply
Read the First Reply to this Posting

Click here to register a complaint about this Posting
Subject: Fake bomb detection?
Posted Nov 4, 2009 by
Potholer
This is a reply to this Posting  
Posting 4

Previous PostingNext Posting
But if it had value as a bluff, it still wouldn't need someone to make a huge amount of money out of selling bogus equipment, merely someone making fakes and spreading rumours.

Once a few people had taken the risk of carrying explosives and got through checkpoints unstopped, word would seem likely to spread very quickly that the devices were useless.
Let's remember that there are people doing suicide attacks, who would likely not be afraid to at least *try* carrying explosives.

Also, the guy seemingly making a lot of money selling the ADE 651 devices also suggests that they are good for mine clearance, among other things.
I don't suppose anyone here thinks that mines disappear or become non-explosive due to people's beliefs about them.

Fake mine detection kit ==> dead mine clearance personnel

Personally, I'd be very surprised if the people at the top are actually fooled for a second - with the large sums involved it seems much more likely that they're in on the scam and lining their pockets.

If the Iraqi general sincerely believed they worked, he'd presumably have been really keen to prove it to the doubting US forces he's allied with.
Somehow, I rather doubt he's tried to do that.

Reply
Read the First Reply to this Posting

Click here to register a complaint about this Posting
Subject: Fake bomb detection?
Posted Nov 4, 2009 by
Taff Agent of Kaos.We are Borg....Resistance is Futile....Bufoons are Go
This is a reply to this Posting  
Posting 5

Previous PostingNext Posting
the point of a deterent is to make the terrorist think about an easier target

suicide bombers are the worst and most popular type these days due to the wide range of electronic counter meassures available to prevent the remote detenation of an IED

even if you detect explosives theres nothing to stop matey-boy going all 'allah akbar' on you, all you have done is allowed the bomb to be set off premeturely and not at the intended target

there are still casualtys to deal with

bat

Reply
Read the First Reply to this Posting

Click here to register a complaint about this Posting
Subject: Fake bomb detection?
Posted Nov 7, 2009 by
3Dots
This is a reply to this Posting  
Posting 6

Previous PostingNext Posting
And 'created' by people in Leicester too boot.

It's rubbish along with anything to do with magnets improving fuel efficiency or anything else.
The only thing magnets can do is improve the magnetic properties of certain metals.

Reply
Read the First Reply to this Posting

Click here to register a complaint about this Posting
Subject: Fake bomb detection?
Posted Nov 15, 2009 by
Xanatic, I´m loveable dammit!
This is a reply to this Posting  
Posting 7

Previous PostingNext Posting
I can´t believe the money they´ve spent on this. I really hope somebody brings fraud charges against these guys.

Reply
Read the First Reply to this Posting

Click here to register a complaint about this Posting
Subject: Fake bomb detection?
Posted Nov 15, 2009 by
3Dots
This is a reply to this Posting  
Posting 8

Previous Posting
Here's something else that companies are starting to use...normally taken up by people with no knowledge of magnets or improvements in fuel efficency.

http://www.maxsysltd.com/

The company says by putting electromagnets onto the gas supply to a boler it can improve fuel efficency by 5%. Initally it said the magnets lined the molecules up then they changed their monds and are saying it does something to the iron in the gas and also clean the system too. Anyway, the Carbon Trust firstly gave them some money to help with the technology then rejected it because there is no peer reviewed proof that the technology works...they also probably read their own literature which says that if you just start to examine a boilers set-up and improve that you will get a 5% improvement.

So, the MD of the company wrote the following:

http://www.energy-online.net/storie...ry_speaks_out_against_carbon_trust/

here's a few things against the technology but based on liquid fuel...gas is even more energetical and changing than liquids:

http://www.fuelsaving.info/magnets.htm

http://www.ncbuy.com/credit/articles/01_10816.html


Now, I am not saying that this technology does not work..just that there is no peer reviewed reports explaining how it does work and that there are other reasons to show the improvements in the fuel efficiency...and the Carbon trust have rejected it.

You can read about some research that has been done on the technoloy on their website.

http://www.maxsysltd.com/page.cfm?page_id=109&section_id=4

This talks about fluid dynamics etc.

I will leaeve it up to people to decide whetehr they think it works or not.

Now, if they show some really hard evidence and peer reviewed research proving it then...a) they should call up James Randi and get that million dollars and b) "I will take a compass and carve 'Fancy That' on the side of my c*ck" to quote Mr Minchin.

Obviously, the success of Maxsys means they are doing something right. So, good luck to 'em...just don't knock at the door of my company til you've got the research paper and the Nobel Prize for physics....then I'll take your technology with no questions at all but with a large bandage around my nether regions.

Reply
Click here to register a complaint about this Posting




Already at Start of ConversationNo Older Postings to ShowNo Newer Postings to ShowAlready at End of Conversation
Postings 1-20

Conversation list


Most of the content on h2g2 is created by h2g2's Researchers, who are members of the public. The views expressed are theirs and unless specifically stated are not those of the BBC. The BBC is not responsible for the content of any external sites referenced. In the event that you consider anything on this page to be in breach of the site's House Rules, please click on the relevant button to alert our Moderation Team.


Already at Start of ConversationNo Older Postings to ShowNo Newer Postings to ShowAlready at End of Conversation
Postings 1-20

Conversation list

Front PageReadTalkContributeHelp!FeedbackWho is Online

Most of the content on h2g2 is created by h2g2's Researchers, who are members of the public. The views expressed are theirs and unless specifically stated are not those of the BBC. The BBC is not responsible for the content of any external sites referenced. In the event that you consider anything on this page to be in breach of the site's House Rules, please click here. For any other comments, please click on the Feedback button above.


About the BBC | Help | Terms of Use | Privacy & Cookies Policy