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This is the Conversation Forum for The Green Cross Code The Tufty Club... >> Subject: There's an alement of blaming the victim to this... Posted Jul 17, 2003 by Advocatus Diaboli   Posting 1 ... in that it places responsibility for not getting killed onto the pedestrians themselves. I realise that it will be difficult, but surely it is necesary to make those who cause the death and injury to accept the responsibility for avoiding it, by not driving at excessive speed, being alert for hazards and being ready to slow down or stop when circumstances require... Read the First Reply to this Posting Subject: There's an alement of blaming the victim to this... Posted Jul 17, 2003 by Titania & Ripley, the unau adolescent This is a reply to this Posting   Posting 2 I agree - and besides, one of the reasons for darting across the road in the gaps of traffic is because you wouldn't get to the other side if you didn't! In too many cases car drivers will not bother to stop and allow you to cross the street, not even on pedestrians' crossings - not to mention the cyclists... I think I've had *one* cyclist stop to let me pass (you can tell I'm mostly a pedestrian, can't you? ) Read the First Reply to this Posting Subject: There's an alement of blaming the victim to this... Posted Jul 17, 2003 by QueenBronners - Ferret Fanatic This is a reply to this Posting   Posting 3 Just to add to the deabte - I cycle every day in London and I ALWAYS stop for pedestrains at crossings when it is their right of way. On the other hand pedestrians constantly cross the road when I have the right of way, frequently without even looking. I accept that as a road user I have to be aware of pedestrains and ready to stop at any moment when they wander into the road. It is however very annoying when people do not even realise that they have forced me to slam on my brakes. I think that there is a general decrease in awareness and respect for other people, be they on the road or pedestrians. An important part in changing this would be to set children a good example. I see so many parents with kids in tow crossing in very dangerous locations. If there is a proper crossing near to you walk to it! Don't make me stop 6 metres before a proper crossing because you can't be bothered to walk further. I am on a cycle, so neither of us will be badly hurt - but considering some people's lack of attention I could be on a motorbike, or even in a car. I do apologise for this rant, but I can't take the blame for pedestrians that don't pay attention when they cross. Yes, I am aware that I need to stop at any time for pedestrians but sooner or later I am goign to get it wrong. law of averages! I should not be put into this situation. Thanks for listnening y'all Hugs! QB Read the First Reply to this Posting Subject: There's an alement of blaming the victim to this... Posted Jul 17, 2003 by Advocatus Diaboli This is a reply to this Posting   Posting 4 Yes, I cycle myself and I'm convinced I've seen roadside trees paying more attention to their whereabouts than some pedestrians, but for the sake of civilisation you have to make allowances. The shared-use path seems to be another difficult concept: I've had a couple of collisions; on both occasions I braked to a halt and the pedestrian continued to walk straight into me. Annoying, but great entertainment value from the looks on their faces. The design of pedestrian crossings is a problem. They are rarely situated to suit the requirements of the pedestrian, and the timing of the signals seems to be programmed to give pedestrians a very low priority. I often find I have crossed the road and walked 50 yards down the road before the lights change at some of them.... Read the First Reply to this Posting Subject: There's an alement of blaming the victim to this... Posted Jul 17, 2003 by QueenBronners - Ferret Fanatic This is a reply to this Posting   Posting 5 Well, I have been shamed by Diaboli's balanced approach to the issue. I will take a leaf from his book and try to inject some humour into my daily pedestrian dodging. Apologies to all for my mini rant. QB Read the First Reply to this Posting Subject: There's an alement of blaming the victim to this... Posted Jul 17, 2003 by Advocatus Diaboli This is a reply to this Posting   Posting 6 No worries: we all rant at something. Although I think I could quit ranting at motorists if I had one of those Swiss Army mountain bikes with the RPG launcher on the back Read the First Reply to this Posting Subject: There's an alement of blaming the victim to this... Posted Jul 17, 2003 by the third man(temporary armistice)n strike) This is a reply to this Posting   Posting 7 One of the reasons people cross the road in such a haphazard fashion is because planners don't seem to give a monkeys about pedestrians. To cross some roads you are expected to walk a couple of hundred yards and then negotiate up to three pelican crossings. Then do it all on the way back. All that for a pint of milk! Drivers are spoilt in this country, as in the fact that if there is a speed camera they demand a sign warning them that one is coming up. The Third Man - Proud but angry pedestrian Read the First Reply to this Posting Subject: There's an alement of blaming the victim to this... Posted Jul 17, 2003 by Atlantic_Cable This is a reply to this Posting   Posting 8 Sorry, I didn't mean to give the impression of blaming the victim. I was just trying to point out that the majority of pedestrians I see, regardless of their age, seem to be using Zen meditation to cross the road as opposed to the tried and tested Green cross code. Read the First Reply to this Posting Subject: There's an alement of blaming the victim to this... Posted Jul 17, 2003 by Titania & Ripley, the unau adolescent This is a reply to this Posting   Posting 9 Well, as being mostly a pedestrian I do tend to only cross streets when there's a satisfyingly big gap between the vehicles - the *only* time anyone has to slow down or even stop because of me is on pedestrian crossings - which is when I *do* step out in the middle of the road on purpose, to *make* them stop - except in the winter, of course... (living in Sweden, where winter means snow and ice, and longer distances required for stopping a vehicle) Read the First Reply to this Posting Subject: There's an alement of blaming the victim to this... Posted Jul 20, 2003 by Atlantic_Cable This is a reply to this Posting   Posting 10 I partially agree with QB's rant. Some parents set a really bad example to their kids. By all means cross at bad places if you have no choice, but for pity's sake at least look both ways before you do. I just saw a chilling advert on TV in the UK. I won't spoil it for those who haven't seen it, because the message was good and needs the impact, but it said: "The single biggest killer of children between 12 - 16 is traffic." That's something to think about. Not that drivers are mcuh better. Well some drivers are quite bad. I've just come back from the cinema. As a new driver in the UK I wear the green "L" plates on my car and I saw a guy with a huge Daihatsu 4x4 parked on a main road with the front right type on the pavement, and all others on the road, facing traffic with his huge big end sticking out into the road, talking to a woman on the street! He would have taken up far less space on the road if he had parked properly, but the really maddening thing is; The ENTIRE other side of the road for about 100 yards is parking bays! BTW about pedestrian crossings: As I leant it in school, in the UK a crossing at a junction (where there are traffic lights anyway) is timed for the cars' benefit. Crossings on their own (where there is no junction) are for pedestrians. I would like to see the American/Japanese style X crossings at T junctions. They let you cross one road or two at the same time by crossing diagonally. Read the First Reply to this Posting Subject: There's an alement of blaming the victim to this... Posted Jul 21, 2003 by Advocatus Diaboli This is a reply to this Posting   Posting 11 '"The single biggest killer of children between 12 - 16 is traffic." That's something to think about.' Indeed it is. The point I was trying to get over is that in a civilised land, it ought to be those at the wheels of the traffic doing the thinking. While more safety-aware behaviour from pedestrians is certainly desirable, responsibility belongs to those in "control" of the fatal implements: namely the drivers of the cars and lorries. Thinking otherwise is putting convenience ahead of life. Read the First Reply to this Posting Subject: There's an alement of blaming the victim to this... Posted Jul 21, 2003 by QueenBronners - Ferret Fanatic This is a reply to this Posting   Posting 12 While it is true that car drivers should be ultimatly responsible for and aware of pedestrians and their safety, it is very important for pedestrians to cross with as much good sense as they can. If a pedestrian is hit by a car who is going to be the worse off? I am never going to trust when crossing the road that a car driver is award of me, if he gets it wrong, who dies? Pedestrains are at the bottom of the "food chain." They are likely to be killed if they don't cross sensibly. It's all very well to expect car drivers to be aware of a pedestrian, but what if they're not. I just think that pedestrians have the most to loose, therefore they should be the most careful. I am not advocating that car drivers should drive around oblivious to pedestrians, quite the opposite. I just feel that when it comes down to something as important as crossing a road safely you can't trust anyones else. QB Read the First Reply to this Posting Subject: There's an alement of blaming the victim to this... Posted Jul 21, 2003 by Advocatus Diaboli This is a reply to this Posting   Posting 13 It's not that I entirely disagree with you, it's just that I have this streak of optimistic utopianism: things ought to be and can be better than they are. While pedestrians ought to be careful of (and indeed considerate to) other road users, at the moment this is exploited by others who have come to expect a clear path as of right and use their relative invulnerability as justification for driving roughshod over the rights of their fellow citizens: the Law of the Jungle conquering the Law of Civilisation. Bit of a rant Read the First Reply to this Posting Subject: There's an alement of blaming the victim to this... Posted Jul 21, 2003 by QueenBronners - Ferret Fanatic This is a reply to this Posting   Posting 14 I guess the only way to solve this is if everyone is considerate of everyone else! Works for me, I just need to get London's pedestrians to agree to this. I read about a traffic experiment in Holland where they removed all road markings, traffic control and pavements in one small town. Accidents decreased as no body had a right of way and so everyone was really careful. Obviously this wouldn't work in a large town or city but it is quite interesting. QB Read the First Reply to this Posting Subject: There's an alement of blaming the victim to this... Posted Jul 21, 2003 by Atlantic_Cable This is a reply to this Posting   Posting 15 Yes, I agree. The drivers are sometimes a little unaware of what's going on. But I think every pedestrian should be aware of a few things like the average stopping distance of cars and the blind spots in rear view mirrors, stuff like that. It should be taught to kids along woth the green cross code. Read the First Reply to this Posting Subject: There's an alement of blaming the victim to this... Posted Sep 9, 2003 by Advocatus Diaboli This is a reply to this Posting   Posting 16 If only drivers were aware of their stopping distances and blind spots Conversation list Most of the content on h2g2 is created by h2g2's Researchers, who are members of the public. 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