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Posted Mar 22, 2001 by Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession
I know this entry explicitly states it is about 'religious' rites of passage. But I have a feeling we won't later be doing one on non-religious rites. So I'll give my story here.
For young girls, the passage from child to teen (or adult, as it was seen in our not-so-distance history) is rather obviously marked with menstruation. In our modern age, this event is anticipated with a boring but reassuring video viewed by girls during school hours. In such videos, the actual practical realities of puberty and menstruation are glossed over in favor of cheesy coming-of-age propaganda.
I began menstruating before this video was shown in my class, so my mother was stuck explaining the phenomenon and its meaning to me. Her solution was quite practical. She taught me about all the appropriate sanitary aids, reassured herself that I understood basic principles of reproduction, and then took me out for some celebratory ice cream.
A month later, a friend of mine began menstruating while I was at her house for a sleepover party. She positively freaked out, convinced that she was slowly bleeding to death. Her biggest fear was that her untimely death was divine retribution for... well, she didn't say, but we can only imagine what she thought might have prompted God's wrath.
Barbra's parents had apparently avoided all discussion of 'adult' matters with her, and this led to some regrettable (and embarrassing) consequences for all involved. When the reticent whining finally became unbearable, I ratted on my little friend to her parents. The sleepover was quickly disbanded, and the story soon circulated around school.
Later on, I asked my mother why they didn't just take her out for her ice cream. My mom shrugged. 'Each to their own,' she said. Still. If I ever raise a girl, I'm definitely taking the 'ice cream' approach over the 'sleepover debacle' one.
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Posted Mar 24, 2001 by xyroth
The "sleepover" incident sounds like the traditional "keep my kid innocent" approach, where what they actually mean is "keep my kid ignorant". This (approximately) doesn't happen in more enlightened places, where the correct information is given out on demand, to anyone, any age, and to everyone at the age that the youngest incident happened.
There are also problems with the assumption that only religious "cults" (ie christianity, etc) deserve the right to have recognised and protected ceremonies. A lot of different philosophies and other beleif systems also have rituals that are similar enough that they should be included as well.
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Posted Mar 24, 2001 by moondancer
I was a little like the girl at the slumber party although I was alone when I started my first period. I was scared silly, We had moved during the year I should have seen the movie and I missed it.My Mom didn't realize this so she thought I was informed and the subject never came up. I knew there was something I was missing because I heard the other girls discussing it but I was too embarrassed to admit my ignorance to anyone. Needless to say it wasn't something I would have dreamed up even in my wildest imaginings so I was totally freaked.
I swore to my self that my daughter would never go through such a trauma so I began telling her what to expect and what signs to look for from the time she was about eight.
When she told me she had started, I gave her a big hug, bought her a pair of gold earrings and took her out for a great dinner. At the time she told me I was silly, but I know she appreciated it.
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Posted Mar 24, 2001 by Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession
Good for you, moonpuppy! 
I didn't tell my mother how much I appreciated it either. I think this is the first symptom of rebellious teenagehood, and shouldn't be taken personally. She may thank you when she is older, as I did with my mother.
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Posted Mar 26, 2001 by Ashley
Hey Fragilis!
Great thread - just to put your mind at rest, Rites of Passage (of the non-religious variety) is now on our list for a future topic
Cheers for now.
Ashley
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Posted Sep 30, 2001 by Zarquon's Singing Fish!
Oh, good.
I've been present at a couple of non-religious rites of passage, one for young women and one for both young women and lads - the second involving a sweat lodge and a vision quest.
In my Quaker meeting one of the members is looking to do something purely for lads. (Over here there is a debate as to whether Quakers are Christian or not. One of our members is an atheist and another a witch.)
Marking and honouring the passage to womanhood and manhood is sadly often lacking these days.
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Posted Nov 11, 2001 by Zarquon's Singing Fish!
Is anything happening on this?
 
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Posted Oct 28, 2002 by WiLL
Markings for the coming of age for the male is far more difficult to find, especially in "modern" Western culture. Many men have no idea what is expected of them, or what is means to be a man.
Women only have a slightly easier situation, the physical marking of menstration, but women have very different (and constantly changing) roles in our society.
Not to mention the barrage of messages from the popular cultre which further confuse the poor teens and pre-teens trying to find their way in society.
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Posted Oct 29, 2002 by Zarquon's Singing Fish!
I suspect that this is why we are now seeing more 'men's groups', Iron John, and all that stuff and rites of passage camps for young teens including things like sweat lodges and vision quests,
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Posted Jan 12, 2003 by WiLL
I disagree. I believe it is the lack of these culture-specific rites that make the transition difficult. In a tribal culture, you are a "Boy" until you have your vision quest, or your survival rite, or your circumcision, or your ritual scarring, or whatever. These thins are a permanant alteration in your own mind and in the eyes of your elders that your are a "man".
Modern cultures lack such rites. There is the driver's test, there is high school graduation, but these are less like rites of passage than necessities or obstacles to be overcome. When does a boy become a man?
When he is married? I know many women who don't asscribe to that notion.
Anyway, those rites you mentioned and many more are on the decline. The line between manhood and boyhood is becoming more and more blurred.
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Posted Jan 12, 2003 by WiLL
Inquiry:
What is Iron John?
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Posted Jan 12, 2003 by Zarquon's Singing Fish!
Just off to Quaker meeting followed by a shared meal and some singing activities. I"ll reply to this properly on my return this evening.
Iron John is a book by Robert Bly and is an allegorical tale about a 'hairy man' who is the mentor of a young boy and there is stuff in it about initiation rituals for boys becoming men.
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Posted Jan 12, 2003 by Zarquon's Singing Fish!
Having looked at your post, Will, I think we are very close in our thinking. Was it me that you disagreed with or someone else?
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Posted Jan 13, 2003 by WiLL
My disagreement was a minor one with Zarquon's Fish. I simply think that rites are on the decline overall, though there may be some fad rites in modern (usu urban or suburban) culture.
Also i will check this book out. Iron John.
Who is the author?
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Posted Jan 13, 2003 by Zarquon's Singing Fish!
Never having been on a men's rite of passage or participated in a men's group, I wouldn't know now faddish they are. I can say, though from having spoken with young men who have done rites of passage stuff at a camp with their fathers they appear to have found it a poweful experience, so maybe not all modern rites are faddish - or if they are, does it matter as long as they work? I can remember two sorts, one where the men did it with their fathers and another where it was in a mixed group, including a vision quest.
On the latter, there was an enormous thunderstorm, whilst they were out on their own in the woods, having chosen an area to sleep in and having made their bivouac or however they decided to spend the night. No-one managed the whole night, but one brave lad stuck it out for 19 hours and came back to camp absolutely sodden. I saw them all the next year at the same camp and they had really come on as people!
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Posted Jan 13, 2003 by WiLL
But this is exactly my point.
They have grown as a person, but it is not a definite, culturally-defined rite which makes them adults. Even in our culture (Im in the US in California, so maybe im a bit off-base with those in Europe) the Jewish religion has a Bar Mitzvah, which makes boys into men in the eyes of the Jewish faith. But that does not change their status in the American culture in any way.
This is because the dominant (US) culture does not have any rules for such a rite. There is no ceremony for manhood.
You are not a man at 16, when you can drive a 1.5 ton killing machine
You are not a man at 18, just because you can vote and die for your country.
You cant even run for federal public office when youre 21, the legal drinking age.
This is what i''m getting at: the US (and western in general) cultures have no cultural rite or ceremony for a boy becoming a man. You are incrimentalized into old age from boyhood. Any rites you have are those you make for yourself. And here is where many boys fail. They are involved in a gang, and their rite may be violent, dangerous, or deadly. Some may become men too quickly and take on too much responsibility, wake up at thirty and have three children that he cannot raise, and realizes he has bitten off more than he can chew.
That is my point, that boys here have no one to look up to but other incrimental "men", and have no way to know what their cultural role is until it flies up unexpectedly and hits them in the face.
And hopefully they, and I, will recover from the blow whenever it may come.
Wow, long rant.
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Posted Jan 13, 2003 by Zarquon's Singing Fish!
I agree entirely. Society does not do well for young men - nor does it for young women either!
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Posted Jan 13, 2003 by WiLL
Exactly.
And this is a sad commentary on our (my) country.
BTW, where are you from?
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Posted Jan 13, 2003 by Zarquon's Singing Fish!
I'm in the UK. The same sort of dynamics operate here as well. Where there are no proper role models, the kids find them anyway, even if they're unsuitable.
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