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Posted Oct 27, 2003 by Lord_Loki
I think this text is quite complete, except for the music. You can't say all the music should be divided in these four categories. What to do with Cradle of Filth then? And Nightwish. We Goths would place them with the pure Gothic music. Another applause to the writer.
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Posted Oct 27, 2003 by Reprobate
I don't think any genre of music/culture is easily classified and that's doubly true of Goth, but this was very close. I've considered myself a Goth since 1980 and from this POV I think the piece did well to point out the roots of Goth are punk, which is often forgotten when the stereotypes are wheeled out. I also think that Goths have a wry sense of humour which is also overlooked. They don't always take the outward expression of a Gothic sensibility seriously and there's a sub-genre that loves Gothic kitsch, lots of cross-over influences as seen in techno Goths, PVC and the like, and although black is the defining colour (or absence thereof!)Goths do sometimes wear rich fabrics in reds and purples, and hair is often dyed the rainbow colours associated with punk.
Goth can involve pop, and elecro 80's music, tongue in cheek cheesy chart pop is often heard in clubs along with Bauhaus, Das Ich or Faith and the Muse. I particularly liked seeing the statement that the music industry actively tried to supress Goth as a "mainstream" culture which until recently it has continued to do. I think that contributed to the perconceptions a lot of people have about Goths as a miserable bunch of misfits!
It's certainly true that Goth is a state of mind, a sort of dark romanticism, and you might find many Goths well-read in philosophy or with an interest in literature, classical music and art. As with every genre I don't think you can take one Goth and say of him/her that s/he defines the culture identified with.
As for MM, I don't think it's important if he's a Goth or not. If Goths enjoy his music then it can be classified as part of the culture in the same way as The Cure (who have never thought of themselves as Goth but who are included in most Goth clubs' playlists.)
All in all this was good!
~R.
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Posted Oct 27, 2003 by oldgoth
"What to do with Cradle of Filth then?"
Hang, Draw and Quarter?
oldgoth (hates metal)
www.insanitorium.co.uk
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Posted Oct 27, 2003 by Mort - A Girl, Interrupted
me - ageing goth 
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Posted Oct 28, 2003 by morbidmaddnes
Rock on Reprobate!!!! you got it!!
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Posted Oct 28, 2003 by morbidmaddnes
cradle of filth is metal!! Death metal
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Posted Oct 28, 2003 by Tube - the being being back for the time being
<bows>Thanks Lord Loki and Reprobate! 
Nightwish, Therion, The Gathering... 
Oh, welcome to h2g2, oldgoth! I hope you'll enjoy your stay. Ah, and morbidmaddnes, too!  This entry seems to generate rather a lot of interest from outside of h2g2.
I'm glad you all pretty much agree with it. I knew it was very diverse a subject to attempt to cover. And seeing that "goth" means something different to each of us, some aspects may not have been given the consideration oneself would have liked to have seen.
Tube
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Posted Mar 9, 2004 by DarkReaver
i'll think you'll find that they are actually black metal band, infact i think they may actually be a gothic black metal band.
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Posted Mar 9, 2004 by DarkReaver
by "they" i mean Cradle of Filth.
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Posted Jun 10, 2004 by U198166
Cradle come under dark meatl.im playing a live Cradle of Filth album im on track 7 the princial of evil made flesh. i can only say nightwish come under "goth".
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Posted Jul 7, 2005 by belladonna_eyes
Cradle of filth are usually categorised as Death Metal, Nightwish are some kind of operatic black metal. Neither are goth bands. At all.
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Posted Dec 29, 2005 by romantic
The CoF thing is a matter of opinion. My opinion they r just a black metal band. i think like Manson they're only really playin with the gothic image/s. I'd think goth metal is more:
Theatre of tragedy, Theatres des vampires (my personally fav!) , Black Sabbath, Children of Bodom, etc
but hey that's just my opinion. xxx
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Posted Jan 1, 2006 by Lord Job Boron. That's Lord Job Boron To You!
I saw Cradle the other week. Met a very nice girl there and made out in a moshpit. Again.
Which brings me neatly to the point that CoF aren't passive enough to be goth. You can't sway to them for one. Some of mansons stuff is swayable but it's very brash and aggressive. It's too likely to smudge your make up. (I know, I've seen him as well).
Black Sabbath? Not in the classic rock group you say? Interesting (The song black sabbath is excluded).
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Posted Jan 1, 2006 by romantic
mmmm lucky you. lol.
Black Sabbath is one of the rare bands that can go into a range of genres - well a few different ones.
Like the Cure - to some they are punk, to others they're goth rock, to some they're indie, to some they're emo, to some they're just rock.
weird. CoF are still quite a goth band - just not goth in my opinion
I always say it's because they seem to rely more on the image to be considered goth than whereas i think goth rock bands are more contrated on the music.
That's what i think if it makes sense! lol
take care xxx
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Posted Jan 1, 2006 by Lord Job Boron. That's Lord Job Boron To You!
Bauhaus- Goth or Death Rock? Thats what I always think of as goth, whereas The Cure and Joy Division are New Wave. But if you want to get REALLY goth try... Vivaldi, Bach, the Kronos Quartet... some of them are amazing!
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Posted Jan 1, 2006 by romantic
cool. Bauhaus - goth rock.
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Posted Jan 1, 2006 by Lord Job Boron. That's Lord Job Boron To You!
Nicely combining the two there.
Sisters of Mercy?
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Posted Jan 1, 2006 by romantic
goth rock.
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Posted Jan 1, 2006 by romantic
haven't heard them yet?
Depeche mode?
New Romantic?
New wave?
Goth rock?
etc
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