| 
Posted Mar 2, 2005 by KerrAvon - Regret is a part of life. But keep it a small part.
Um, that could be tricky. Most of us *are* weird, geeky, or both...
|
 
|  | |
| |
Posted Mar 2, 2005 by KerrAvon - Regret is a part of life. But keep it a small part.
And just to make it clear I'm not italic bashing-
Whilst the community side may be feeling a little neglected, things like response time in Editoral Feedback have gone through the roof in recent months.
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 2, 2005 by Smij
And actually, most of *us* are wierd and geekish too, but I think it would be wrong to direct the site towards that. After all, we already attract that sector naturally without targeting them too. 
We should also avoid targeting txtspkrs too, because I genuinely don't think that form of communication has anything to contribute. It's fine for one-to-one chat, but has little value outside of the people involved. So I'd hope part of h2g2's place in Internet-Land is to offer somewhere where a good standard of writing is encouraged, and where enthusiasm and a willingness to take part are rewarded.
I'd quietly challenge the idea that we're not the kind of team to go popping into threads like the old team did, but (and please try to read this in the best possible meaning rather than the potential bad one) we have more important things to do with our time now. With just three people on the team the effect has actually been to make us think about the hours in the day and work out the best ways to fill them. For us, one of the best ways is to look after the volunteers so they feel equipped to look after the rest of the community - that was the original idea of the groups after all. There are also more meetings for us to go to now, partly because there aremore people we want to meet and partly because of other teams that are involved in the running of the site, like the Single Sign-on team (who are utterly adorable, by the way).
But we have also noticed that in a discussion thread, the presence of an Italic does often close the thread down instantly. Often we'll be reading along but choosing not to post to enable the conversation to continue. And occasionally we'll be forced to pop into a thread in an attempt to calm things down if they get too heated.
By the way, completely at a tangent to what we were discussing but... if there are any budding artists who'd like to join the Community Artists' group to help out with clubs & society badges, give us a shout on the Artists volunteer page [CommunityArtists-Recruit].
Jims
(away from his desk for the rest of the day - eek!)
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 2, 2005 by KerrAvon - Regret is a part of life. But keep it a small part.
"I'd quietly challenge the idea that we're not the ind of team to go popping into threads like the old team did, but (and please try to read this in the best possible meaning rather than the potential bad one) we have more important things to do with our time now."
Which is why I noted that I could understand it because the team is reduced in numebrs- of course you're going to be busy with other stuff. A smaller team and a larger community is always going to mean less of an italic 'presence'. Maybe that's why I'd percieved a reduction in italic commenting- because you're not often in the bits of the site that I am.
I didn't just mean things like this thread, I meant journal type stuff too, which is the sort of stuff Iwouldn't expect you to have time for.
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 2, 2005 by  And then, again, it's Mrs Zen
Well, your presence doesn't shut down threads with KA, or me, or Hoo in them!   s rule! Yay!
One thing which my Big Brother noted when meeting Hootizens in Sydney in 2002 was how passionate they are, we are, about the quality of the written word, about spelling and grammar, about commnicating clearly and accurately. Not that we are grammar-nazis - anything but! - but that we care about the written word as a means of communication. So maybe one part of our place in Internet-Land is to be somewhere where people can communicate articulately and intelligently using the written word.
Let me sling some more questions into the mix:
 What keeps you here? (Gnomon has already explained what makes him stick with the site)
What kind of events on site make it something you want to keep in touch with or be a part of?
and while I am at it
What kind of events in RL or on-site mean that you take a less active role here?
Ben
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 2, 2005 by Smij
[off site now, but... these are excellent questions, B, and we're all looking forward to reading the responses]
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 2, 2005 by KerrAvon - Regret is a part of life. But keep it a small part.
What keeps me here? Well, as with 6, it used to the EG, but reduced time means it probably more talking to the 'community' these days, although I am getting back up to speed in EG terms. Feeling appreciated. Unlike wikipedia, here one feels that a) people actually enjoy reading what you've written, and b) it's much easier for people to comment on entries, be it in PR or threads off entries.
Events on site? Err, well me being me it's probably the smutty piss-take atmosphere in friends' journals, which make my time here feel like one extended evening down the pub. But that's going to be different for less boozy people .
RL life events is going to be dull stuff like work, decorating and other things that get in the way of fun.
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 2, 2005 by And then, again, it's Mrs Zen
Jimster, how can we talk about you behind your back while you are out of the office if you keep on lurking the thread? 
Ben
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 2, 2005 by Mina - Older on the outside, inside still 14
"It it a shame we don't have some sort of community assistant anymore."
You mean like the ACEs?
Abi and I used to like dropping into threads because that's what we did before we became Italics. I don't do it nearly so much on my new site, because I didn't have that sort of relationship with the site, pre work. It's not that I don't like talking to people here, it's just different.
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 2, 2005 by And then, again, it's Mrs Zen
I've started a discussion on the Government's newly published Green Paper on the future of the BBC here: F135418?thread=603595
B
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 2, 2005 by BouncyBitInTheMiddle
Well I just wrote this for that other thread, but think it fits better here:
Its all too easy to think that everyone's just trying too hard to justify our existence, but I think we do have a unique position on the internet. Wikipedia remains, of course, a wonderful site.
One experiment I just did was to type 'sex' into the search box on Wikipedia and the search box on h2g2. I think that illustrates the difference beautifully. I actually thought Wikipedia would do a bad job on that, but they've done really well. Hootoo's set of entries is probably the more useful though. If you join the site as a never been kissed 17 year old, purely for example, they might help you to grow up a bit.
The other difference is community. Wikipedia has a huge number of users but I can't identify a community as such. You can go onto the site and look up your maths problem, but if you have a specific one that isn't covered then you can't just pop onto ask Wiki and get someone to help you.
One strength of Hootoo's community is that however much a conversation or debate might go around in circles, progress really happens. After a while of people going "yes, I agree," someone will come along and say "no, that's nonsense," and even if they lose someone will take a little bit of their point.
There are things that I think need updating about Hootoo though. Namely multimedia. Sounds, pictures, films. If we're trusted to self-moderate our words, why not those others?
Internationalism might be a good move too, although maybe too resource-intensive at the moment?
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 2, 2005 by Dr Zen now with PhD Funding.
This is long post, that covers several topics. I've tried to break it up with appropriate smilies, instead of the more conventional 'paragraph' which I should really use*.
 Z's Opinion on what h2g2 is for, and responses to other peoples points.
The Community, forums, debates etc.
Ben Wrote:
'So maybe one part of our place in Internet-Land is to be somewhere where people can communicate articulately and intelligently using the written word.'
Thinking about it, h2g2 is the only place in internet land where I feel I can do that.
I've lurked on various usenet groups and they're pretty harsh places for debate, h2g2 is a much friendlier place. I feel I can get involved in interesting debates which lead to be thinking interesting things here.
And as Bouncey has pointed out the lovely thing about h2g2 is that when people debate here people actually change their minds.
The Guide.
As I said on another thread, there are two sorts of users, people who just read the Guide, and people who contribute to it. Users and Researchers even.
What makes it uniquie for a causal reader, methinks, is the unique take on things, there's always something worth reading on the guide. It's unique, it's personal, it's good quality, it's different. And damn well lets promote it on that basis.
As for Multi media:
There are EG entries with music clips, We Didn't Start The Fire A2700488, and video clips, - The London Stone A2700488
I can see that their might be some copywrite issues with allowing researcher to upload some things. If you have your own pictures, as in you went out to take them with your very own Digital camera I think it should be possible to add it to your Edited Entry. As far as I know, if you ask the italics nicely it currently already is, should this be documented offical policy?
Italic Support for The Community
I've been thinking about that as well.
The community does look after it's self, and there are many people in the community who do a great job of keeping it together. What the italics do is offer an offical badge of approval of the work the community does.
F'instance. 2legs and Coely organise the big London meets, the italics give it front page exposure, update the 'upcoming meets' page and turn up giving it a general offical air.
It doesn't take the italics much time, but the meet gets an offical stamp of approval and to us users on the ground it doesn't seem that different from when the italics were organising the whole thing.
How could this work for other things.. say collabarative entries.
A researcher who wanted to co-ordinate a colabrative entry could approach the italics with an idea for an entry, and a draft. It could get on the front page on Monday, just as the previous ones did, then as the previous ones did the people could discuss it...
Then the researcher could put all the comments together into an entry, which s/he then enters into Peer Review for extra comments on the stylistic issues.
When the research has done that they could post a link to the Peer Review thread at the bottom on the entry so that people who had contributed could get involved in PeerReview if they wanted to.
And Bingo! We have a colabrative entry, that to the average researcher wouldn't look any different from the ones that used to take an italic an entire week, but instead don't take them that much more time than an ordinary common-or-garden entry.
There are lots of keen people who are around the site and keen to help out so lets use them.
-: I think the idea of supporting volenteers to support the community is a great one,
  
But lets take it further...
I'm concscious of the fact that the above, and to some extend this entire thread is telling the italics how to do there job. The five year marketing plan for h2g2 and how it should survive within the BBC and the wider world is something that I'm sure that they've got, and don't have to share with us.
I would get fairly annoyed if Jimster and Paully popped over to my personal spare and started discussing how my revision was going!
Do the lack of posts here imply a lack of passion?
No, er not really, I think they imply that the people with passion don't hang around on Community Soapbox. I also think that there are some people who have very strong views on how the site should be run, and those people tend to have left the site. You don't stick around for long if you are constantly arguing with the italics.
And finally to answer Ben's Questions
'What keeps you here?'
I go through phases. I love the community and have got some great friends here, and I keep making new friends, really interesting people I wouldn't meet during my everyday life.
The Guide is also important to me. I enjoy contributing to it, though I've been more active than I have been recently. I enjoy Scouting, I enjoy subbing. It means that I'm never bored.
I remember before I joined h2g2 I felt I was looking for something, my brain really wasn't getting stretched at all, or at least not outside of medicien. Thinking about interesting things is one of my hobbies, and I get to do it a lot on h2g2.
'What kind of events on site make it something you want to keep in touch with or be a part of?'
The general bizarreness, sometimes I come across something and just think 'that's h2g2, that's why I'm proud'.
The intellegent debates in The Forum, coming across an excellent quirky article in Peer Review, something that I read in the Underguide that sticks in my mind all weekend.
'What kind of events in RL or on-site mean that you take a less active role here?'
When the LDers were around I felt that we were getting taken over my text speakers who were using the place as a chat site, and the very thing I valued about h2g2, a place where intellegent people have intellegent conversation was being threatened. I would never leave h2g2 as it is, but if it changed into a place where dumb morons asked each other 'asl' I would leave.
If I find I'm getting stressed about something on h2g2 I tend to pull back from it, I have enough in my life to worry about besides the way a website's run.
Z
* can you tell I've just re-read 'Eats, Shoots and Leaves'.
Well done you've read all the way to the end. Congratulations. Please accept this  as an award.
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 2, 2005 by Number Six
Wise words.
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 2, 2005 by Dr Zen now with PhD Funding.
All 1129 of them?
Gosh I've written shorter essays!
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 2, 2005 by And then, again, it's Mrs Zen
Yeah, well one of the things that keeps me here *is* arguing with the Italics! 
Actually, I really don't want this thread to turn into a thread telling the Italics how to do their jobs. I am almost not interested in that subject at all at the moment. What I *am* interested in is what makes h2g2 so special, which is where all the recent threads I have started are coming from, really.
Incidentally, on the subject of collaborative entries, I may pull together the collective wisdom from this thread and others into an entry for the Post, if Shazz wants it. Or for the UnderGuide, if it was picked -I don't think we've run anything about the site itself there. So - words of wisdom hungrily appreciated!
Ben
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 2, 2005 by Whisky
I might be joining into this conversation a little late, but rather than wade through all the postings and agree or disagree I'm simply going to give my answers to the Ben's initial questions...
Unfortunately, in my experience our place in Internet-Land is that an awful lot of people have never heard of us...
What we do that no other site I've found does is combine learning, a great number of intelligent people and a wide range of expertise/skills/personalities all contributing to interesting conversations, debates and articles. It's the sheer breadth of the site that makes it unique. Some other sites are better at one aspect of what can be covered by this site, but you'd have to combine five or six of them to cover the same area hootoo does.
Are we a cult site?
To a newbie or lurker that must seem true... Just look at the online list, the number of wierd nicknames and in-jokes included as suffixes must be offputting or intimidating for a great number of people.
Is that a bad thing? To me, after 4 years using the site - no, it's just part of what gives the site its character.
Have we dropped the ball as an on-line Encyclopaedia - Yes, definitely, although we provide a completely different style of information, which, combined with the checkpoint of Peer Review and the relatively static state of the edited guide does make for a more accurate, and better written, guide. However, I would love to see the guide grow a lot quicker (say's he who has been procrastinating over half a dozen half-finished entries for over a year!).
Internationalism? It's difficult, the major stumbling block there is the fact that the site is funded by a UK licence fee - if the beeb were to be seen to be promoting international use then how would they justify its funding?
I also saw you, Ben, either in this or another conversation, lamenting the apparent lack of 'passion' about the site nowadays... In response to this I'd say that going back three years there were an awful lot of things that had been taken away from the site by the beeb and an awful lot of changes had been imposed on its users.
Since then, the site has developped and a lot of the things that people were complaining/passionate about have been rectified or at least greatly improved.... I'm particularly thinking about moderation and the posting of links in conversations now. So what's left to anger the formerly impassioned user? Pictures? It'll happen one day, I'm sure of that, and frankly, I don't find that worth getting worked up about? Restrictions on conversation subjects (remember Afghanistan, elections, Iraq, etc.?), well, considering it seems the days of the H2 messageboards are numbered and they're all likely to be running on DNA software within the relatively near future then that's no-longer likely to be such an issue - who cares if they tell us we can only talk about something in one particular place if you can access that forum straight from your conversation list!).
What should we be doing to improve the site?
Write entries - that's probably the best way of 'de-culting' the site, attracting more users and becoming the jewel in the BBC's crown - the more links to hootoo entries there are out there in internet land the more people are going to run across the site and become hooked... Personally, I joined the site because of the edited guide and then became corrupted by the community later. Whilst I'm not trying to run down the community side of the site, nor the Underguide, which are unique and very important aspects of what makes this site 'sticky', it's the edited guide that's going to get us noticed and accepted both within and outside the BBC.
(IMHO of course )
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 2, 2005 by Number Six
I've just been motivated by all this (and the fact that I was off sick from work and happened to have the time) to finish off an entry that I'd had kicking around for a good couple of years and chuck it into Peer Review, so it's an ill wind...
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 3, 2005 by Woodpigeon (blasphemy now illegal in Ireland. It is 2010 after all)
This site is, quite simply, the best site I have found on the internet. I was immediately attracted to the site because I have always been looking for an outlet to write or talk about things that interested me. Interestingly enough, during my first year or so here I knew nobody, but it still didn't stop me coming back, participating in Ask, and writing an occasional journal entry or EG entry. The community has always been very vibrant here and I think it is just as passionate and friendly today as it was in the early days. Our shared character is quite special, as we found out after the LD'ers arrived some time ago.
I think I would feel quite homesick if this site wasn't around. I come here often because I can navigate around it easily, I see plenty of topics that take my fancy, even if I don't have an opinion on, its non-threatening and friendly and because it has given me a strong sense of confidence in my writing skills. It enriches my day quite a lot - I get through work fine, but I can switch off at any time and consider something completely different for a while, whether it be the subject of syphilis (A2890235), or the Porterhouse Bar (A3713546) or the forthcoming Cork meet (plug) - for me it's nice to have a lot of things like this spinning around in the background.
The friends I have made here are very special also. Over the time of my late father's sickness they were really supportive. They are a big reason why I stay here, but I also think that my curiosity has a lot to do it. If I put something into a thread that is somewhat provocative, I'm interested in the feedback I get from people. And I have found a lot of satisfaction in getting an article written and approved for the Edited Guide.
I guess I contribute to the Guide at my own pace - RL is very busy, what with kids and work and suchlike, but I don't really consider that I take a less active role than I could. I like the freedom about the place - no obligations to do anything.
Sorry for the ramble!
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 3, 2005 by Aïna
What I really like about h2g2 is its over all civilised nature. Like Woodpigeon said, there is a certain freedom about this place: you can do whatever suits you, and there's a good chance no one's going to call you stupid for it. Amidst all that flaming and bad spelling on other sites, hootoo is a lovely, peaceful, stimulating place.
I spend most of my time lurking on the community side and reading the guide. Still, what's an important factor in keeping me here is that I *have* written an edited entry, and am planning others. Without the sense of purpose that the EG brings, it would be a lot easier for me to leave.
I wasn't here when you weren't allowed to talk about Iraq. That kind of thing would really dampen my enthusiasm (since it would take away that lovely freedom), but I wouldn't leave for good. There's too much good stuff here for that.
|
| | |
| |
Posted Mar 3, 2005 by Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like
What keeps me here certainly isn't the Edited Guide. I don't even have the time to write unstructured rambling reviews for the Post (sorry Shazz) these days, let alone what I'd term a proper writing exercise like a piece for the Edited Guide.
I don't think one has ever taken me less than a week from start to finish, and I do consider myself 'trained' in the art of writing structured pieces having done a degree that demanded 9 written essays a term.
So it must be the Community...
|
| | |
| |
| |
Key |  |  |
A: An older reply to the parent Posting
B: The parent Posting, to which this is a reply
C: A newer reply to the parent posting
D: The first reply to this Posting
| | |
Click on this icon to make a complaint about a specific Posting | |
|
Home
Reply
