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Discussion:

Should Tax Payers Foot The Bill for the Smoking Police?

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Message 1 - posted by Jonathan Vernon-Smith, Feb 15, 2007

Thousands of anti-smoking police will patrol bars, restaurants and shops in England, when the smoking ban starts.

The government has given councils 29.5m to help pay for staff who will be able to give on the spot fines of £50 to individuals and £200 fines to premises.

They will have the power to enter premises undercover, allowing them to sit among drinkers and even will even be able to photograph and film people.

So whilst many people have long favoured introducing a smoking ban in the UK – do we really need to spend £30 million enforcing it?


What do you think? Should tax payers foot the bill for the smoking police?

Are you a smoker? Will peer pressure make you accept the ban?

Will your local landlord enforce the ban in his establishment?

Is it necessary to have smoking police monitoring us?

Should the taxpayer foot the bill for enforcement which many people say isn't needed?

Do you think we’re heading too much towards a police state in this country? Are things going too far!

Have you been to Ireland or Scotland since their smoking bans came into force? How was the ban accepted?

Or do you think so many people will try to flout the ban that we need officials handing out on the spot fines?

Is this such an important health issue that we need to make sure there is a total clamp down?

Do you think a fine is enough? Should people be arrested?

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This is the subject of today's phone in on BBC Radio Northampton between 1pm and 2pm. Tune in on 104.2, 103.6FM or online and have your say on 01604 23 44 55!
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Message 2 - posted by merak, Feb 15, 2007

I'll bet we'll have the same people in favour of the ban bleating about taxpayers' money spent policing it. <laugh>

I think most big town or city venues will properly enforce it, whereas out of town and rural venues might not be so strict with it.

Nor do i think many nightclubs are going to be too heavy handed on anybody having fly cigarette in a dark corner.

What makes me laugh is there's youngsters in bars/clubs unable to stand through booze, people popping pills and snorting goodness know what, but woe betide if you dare light up a cigarette. The mind boggles.

I've been to Scotland a few times since the ban was introduced up there. Didn't witness anybody flouting the ban. It's now highly sociable outside pubs as well and you do get chatting to people you would've otherwise be chatting to. I was talking to one non smoker who didn't like the ban because now his mates need to go outside for a smoke, so he's left inside on his tod at regular intervals. lol!

Social clubs up there seem to have been hit the hardest by the ban. They even organised a protest at the Scottish parliament on account of it. Bingo halls are other area hit - most of the customers are outside having a smoke whereas before they were inside playing fruit machines, so revenue is down on them.

Interestingly enough, encouraging people to stop was one of the government's soundbites on announcing a blanket ban, but tobacco companies reckon sales have increased in Scotland and Ireland since bans were introduced. So that seems to have back fired big time.

In terms of "is it such an important health issue....", acutally no, it's not. It's a rather veroficous piece of legislation given that alcohol and obesity are much bigger problems.

And as for "should people be arrested..." well that's just verging on ridiculous.

The whole thing is ridiculous since there was never any demand for non smoking venues in the first place.
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Message 3 - posted by pompomwhiting, Feb 15, 2007

I'll bet we'll have the same people in favour of the ban bleating about taxpayers' money spent policing it

Sadly Merak. They do want us to spend a fortune on attempting to enforce unenforcable laws. They have no self control themselves so we have to have the stupid laws.
Pom non smoker. Have been known to text while driving! That'll be moded!
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Message 4 - posted by Guy_on_a_bike, Feb 15, 2007

Drive with 3 defective tyres, lose control and kill 4 cyclists - fine £180.

Light up a fag in a pub after July 1st - fine £2500


The great British legal system: proving time after time that human life isn't cheap ...


IT'S WORTHLESS


(there is no "smiley" evil-looking or vicious enough to represent how I feel about this)
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Message 5 - posted by U5848678, Feb 15, 2007

Driving with 3 defective tyres, causing you to skid is enough to make you drop your fag ash onto your lap <laugh>
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Message 6 - posted by merak, Feb 15, 2007

I'll bet we'll have the same people in favour of the ban bleating about taxpayers' money spent policing it

Sadly Merak. They do want us to spend a fortune on attempting to enforce unenforcable laws. They have no self control themselves so we have to have the stupid laws.
Pom non smoker. Have been known to text while driving! That'll be moded!

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I think in Scotland there's a hotline number that general public can ring to report venues flouting the ban, so in most cases it's probably self enforcing.

There's always somebody who will report a venue for allowing smoking, so it's a bit daft I think to have this flying squad setup to catch venues out.
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Message 7 - posted by happyfrisk, Feb 15, 2007

if we cannot afford more police how can we afford smoke police,another crack idea from a crack council
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Message 8 - posted by policeturner, Feb 15, 2007

The problem with trying to carry out an on the spot fine on some drunken slob with a fag is that the official will get his head pushed in or injured, that is not acceptable, just take a quiet photo then take the landlord to court, it is his building therefore his responsibility. Blair must lay in bed thinking of these wonderful things to inflict on the public, he forgets the old, sick, bullied and generally abused of society, I offer this government and new slogan, 'THIS GOVERNMENT MAY CONTAIN NUTS'. As was said on Jonathon's programme, they will be taxing nookies next, now that I will volunteer to be a snoop for......
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Message 9 - posted by merak, Feb 15, 2007

if we cannot afford more police how can we afford smoke police,another crack idea from a crack council

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yes. Good point. Except it's really a crack government idea than council idea I think.
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Message 10 - posted by U5848678, Feb 15, 2007

Just make a citizens arrest as you snap the culprit on your camera phone or better still, get a shot of the bar in or the pub name and report them. They all wanna pack in anyway but can't.

Seriously though, it shouldn't take someone else to have to make a law to stop YOU puffing smoke at ME. Where's your common courtesy, decency and manners.
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Message 11 - posted by merak, Feb 15, 2007

Where's your common courtesy, decency and manners.

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Same place as your's if your messageboard attitude is anything to go by. Pretty non-existent.
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Message 12 - posted by U5848678, Feb 15, 2007

But these are just words, not life threatening chemicals and smoke. I think i'll just nut someone blowing it in my face, I mean, they wouldn't like me peeing on them would they and that's the residue of my vice.
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Message 13 - posted by patsy, Apr 23, 2007

Taxpayers already foot the bill for the NHS in treating smoking related diseases, hopefully that will lessen after the ban.

Should Tax Payers Foot The Bill for the Smoking Police?

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Message 14 - posted by 800lbGorilla, Apr 23, 2007

I think i'll just nut someone blowing it in my face

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I'll bet that'll hurt too - all that solid bone hitting someone! <laugh>
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Message 15 - posted by 800lbGorilla, Apr 23, 2007

Taxpayers already foot the bill for the NHS in treating smoking related diseases, hopefully that will lessen after the ban.

Should Tax Payers Foot The Bill for the Smoking Police?


As usual, the many billions of tax paid by smokers to subsidise the rest of you is conveniently forgotten. So, even if there were to be a reduction in the treatment of people for smoking-related problems, you holy-joes will be worse off - <laugh><laugh><laugh> Isn't that great!!!!

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Message 16 - posted by patsy, Apr 23, 2007

It is not only smokers that pay tax <doh>

Non-smokers may buy items that smokers do not, so by your analogy they must be subsidising smokers!
And if these non-smokers stop buying those items, the smokers will then be worse off, isn't that great too!!<smiley>

As usual, the many billions of tax paid by smokers to subsidise the rest of you is conveniently forgotten. So, even if there were to be a reduction in the treatment of people for smoking-related problems, you holy-joes will be worse off - Isn't that great!!!!


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Message 17 - posted by 800lbGorilla, Apr 23, 2007

Patsy - I've always thought you were somewhat irrational and this latest posting just proves it!!
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Message 18 - posted by Alexander Rednaxela, Apr 23, 2007

Well tax already fits the bill for cleaning friday/saturday night puke off the pavement.

The ones that wanted to ban smoking are now whining that they have to fit the bill, *points gun at foot!! lol
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Message 19 - posted by patsy, Apr 23, 2007

800lbGorilla,

And if you think that only smokers pay tax then you are very irrational and also deluded.

I've always thought you were somewhat irrational and this latest posting just proves it!!

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Message 20 - posted by DavidHankey, Apr 23, 2007

The answer to the original question is simple when thought through logically.

The majority of Police funds come from Council Taxpayers. In England, and I guess Northamptonshire is included, it will be against the law from 1/7/07 to smoke in pubs, clubs, restaurants etc.

If the law is broken, then the Police have a DUTY to uphold it. Simple really, no ifs, buts or maybes.

And I'm a smoker (of cigars)
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This discussion is tagged with:
- Northamptonshire
- smoking
- council
- police
- clubs
- restaurants
- pubs
- ban

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