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Discussion:

Latest Cornish Language Developments

Messages  1 - 20 of 86

 
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Message 1 - posted by Fulup le Breton, Dec 18, 2006

Oh yes the language is moveing forward towards that single written form: www.cornish-language...

Then it will be rolled out into all Cornish schools, eventually, as an optional subject: www.cornwall.gov.uk/...

When this happens bilingual sign post will seem old hat as a story.
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Message 2 - posted by U6196471 - alt id 5, Dec 18, 2006

FLB why aren't all your postings bilingual?
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Message 3 - posted by geoTamar, Dec 18, 2006

Against the BBC rules. I had Happy Christmas and a Good New Year, written in Kernewek, but with the English bracketed, removed last year!
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Message 4 - posted by Stan_Nary, Dec 18, 2006

I look forward to the day when all Kernowek is unified and brought together under an ageed lexicon.

Then we can move forward tofirst voluntary education in the national language, then compulsory Kernowek in all our schools.

Our nation will then have the biggest boost toward recognition for its status as a Duchy.
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Message 5 - posted by youngcornwall, Dec 18, 2006

Then we can move forward tofirst voluntary education in the national language, then compulsory Kernowek in all our schools.


Quoted from this message

And the time wasted on a language of a no purpose value,
is time wasted that could be better spent,
on a education that have a true purpose value.


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Message 6 - posted by pfishwick, Dec 18, 2006

compulsory Kernowek in all our schools.

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Er, why compulsory? <erm>

Patrick
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Message 7 - posted by polmeor, Dec 18, 2006

Then we can move forward tofirst voluntary education in the national language, then compulsory Kernowek in all our schools.



And as soon as you go down the compulsory route the numerous inhabitants of Cornwall who aren't Cornish will exercise their democratic right to keep the Cornish fanatics at bay.

I'm English and am leaning towards a Cornish Assembly (if we ever get a vote) but have no desire for my children to be forced to learn an archaic language - they have enough to do already

Quoted from this message

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Message 8 - posted by U6532874, Dec 18, 2006

Compulsory?

I can't see the majority who are the incommers having any truck with it. How will it be made compulsory? Will there be police in the schools or will tens of thousands of english kids be suspended for months or excluded and then what?
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Message 9 - posted by stevetaal, Dec 18, 2006

I look forward to the day when all Kernowek is unified and brought together under an ageed lexicon.

Then we can move forward tofirst voluntary education in the national language, then compulsory Kernowek in all our schools.

Our nation will then have the biggest boost toward recognition for its status as a Duchy.

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Surely, moving towards educating people in a long dead language is a move backward, rather than forward? I'm sure that you would not be impressed if Latin were to be introduced as a core subject in schools. At least Latin might be of some use in understanding the origins of much of the English language or for scientific purposes.

Not sure how much use Kernowek would be to anyone as anything other than a curiosity.
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Message 10 - posted by Sholesa, Dec 18, 2006

Then we can move forward tofirst voluntary education in the national language, then compulsory Kernowek in all our schools.
And the time wasted on a language of a no purpose value,
is time wasted that could be better spent,
on a education that have a true purpose value.

Quoted from this message


Too true!
The little darlin's already have enough problems absorbing the basic 3R's that they need to meet minimum standards for post secondary education, or life in the real world.
Saddling them with a language that has absolutely no purpose outside Cornwall's borders isn't going to keep them in Cornwall when the high paying jobs are far, far away.......
But, I suppose it will be excellent for communicating with the tourists who will flock to Cornwall to listen to, and read, what they have absolutely no way of understanding !!!
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Message 11 - posted by stevetaal, Dec 18, 2006

<Saddling them with a language that has absolutely no purpose outside Cornwall's borders isn't going to keep them in Cornwall when the high paying jobs are far, far away.......

Quoted from this message



Again, can't see it having any use, even within Cornwall's borders, other than as a curiosity to be talked about on guided tours of equally useless old tin mines.
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Message 12 - posted by geoTamar, Dec 18, 2006

Compulsory is not on the cards for Kernewek. It is in some already and will be in many more schools, an option.

When I went to school, French or German language was compulsory, nowadays no language except English is compulsory.

Kernewek is offered as optional evening classes at many places.

It is important to remember that Kernewek is an officially recognised language by Europe and the UK Government and receives small funding. The Kernewek language is fundamental to the culture of Cornwall - place names, etc.
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Message 13 - posted by stevetaal, Dec 18, 2006

Compulsory is not on the cards for Kernewek. It is in some already and will be in many more schools, an option.

When I went to school, French or German language was compulsory, nowadays no language except English is compulsory.

Kernewek is offered as optional evening classes at many places.

It is important to remember that Kernewek is an officially recognised language by Europe and the UK Government and receives small funding. The Kernewek language is fundamental to the culture of Cornwall - place names, etc.

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As is Latin to English culture but I don't hear anyone crying out for it to be compulsory in schools as Fulup does for Kernewek. Latin was a compulsory subject at the school I attended and I have found it has stood me in good stead. A foreign language, either French , German or Spanish is compulsory at my daughter's school and French is taught as a compulsory subject at her old primary school.
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Message 14 - posted by stevetaal, Dec 18, 2006

Beg your pardon, it was Stan nary who wanted it compulsory.
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Message 15 - posted by U4409815, Dec 19, 2006

I have no problem with cornish being a voluntary subject option in secondary schools and perhaps included as a small part of the curriculum in primary schools (together with a bit of Italian (far easier to learn than french and gives potential to much more easily learn spainish and other romance languages)and German).

However, making languages compulsory can be dangerous. Irish has been compulsory at secondary level in RoI since the foundation of the irish state. However, the number of people who use irish as a first language is lower now than at anytime since the foundation of the state.

There are calls from many political parties to make irish voluntary at schools. This is supported by a large number of people who return to irish in later life having being put off it in school (partly because it is taught as a literary rather than spoken language, bizzarely).

There has been a limited revival in irish in recent years, altough the irish language cafe and an irish language restaurant near my offices in the centre of dublin have closed down or in the case of the later change to english language service.

The current fina fail lead government are shortly to introduce a plan to make RoI bilingual (english and irish) by 2030, this has been meet with general derision firstly due to the economic cost, secondly due to the lack of public interest, thirdly due to the risk to the irish economy (the irish economy is substantially based on attracting investment from US multinationals, who are attracted to Ireland due to the similar language and culture to the US).

It wil be interesting to see how this bilingual plan pans out, will it be opted by the populace (I doubt it) and what will be the impact on the economic front (particularly as the 150 million chinese are currently learning english as second language, this might be globish, but this is probably all they will need given their minute cost base). One thing is for sure, it might make Ireland a more attractive tourist destination (so more low paid jobs filled by eastern european migrants - hurray)

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Message 16 - posted by GummidgeW, Dec 19, 2006

I was speaking with some juniors at a local sports club about the language issue and to a boy,they all said they were not remotely interested in learning it.
Therefore, I think it may well need to be compulsory!

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Message 17 - posted by geoTamar, Dec 19, 2006

As I said, Kernewek is optional and there are no plans for it to be otherwise, as far as I am aware. To me the most important thing is understanding the meaning and derivation of Cornwall's Kernewek place names as this forms a large part of the history, culture and heritage. One does not have to be fluent in the language for this, but just to know the derivation of place name elements.
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Message 18 - posted by KernowRydh, Dec 19, 2006

It is important for Kernewek to be preserved because it is part of our heritage. English was on the wane some time after the Norman invasion, and it was two Cornishmen who successfully campaigned for it to be used more widely and so stopped us from speaking French today; it's rather churlish of the vocal naysayers today to want to deprive the Cornish of their own language in turn. I don't think that Kernewek should be compulsory, but it should be encouraged and shown that it can be a relevant part of modern Cornish life.

While understanding placenames is an important part of Kernewek, it's impossible to understand them fully without a grasp of grammar and vocabulary, and hence a grasp of the language as a whole.

The Cornish language has played an important part in the history of Cornwall (and its relationship with England), and it is important for Cornish people (and other people living here) to understand the history of the place they live, and why it has the unique culture it does. Nobody on this forum speaks openly against the teaching of African or Asian languages or culture to black or Asian children, so why are Cornish children discriminated against in this way?

Is it because I is Cornish? ;-)
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Message 19 - posted by KernowRydh, Dec 19, 2006

Message to Moderators: As Welsh and Gaelic are acceptable in some forums, why is Cornish not acceptable? Cornish is now officially recognised, so I think it would be a positive move for the BBC to provide a Cornish-language section of this discussion forum. What do you say?
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Message 20 - posted by stevetaal, Dec 19, 2006


While understanding placenames is an important part of Kernewek, it's impossible to understand them fully without a grasp of grammar and vocabulary, and hence a grasp of the language as a whole.


Quoted from this message



Why is it so important to understand placenames, and what is there to understand?

I am fully aware of the origin of the name of my home town but it makes no difference to my life at all.

In the words of the bard... A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

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