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Discussion:

Do CRB check do the job?

Messages  1 - 20 of 23

 
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Message 1 - posted by Lizziedripping, Oct 25, 2006

Could it be that they provide children and the guardians with a feeling of false security? I say this because if I was having my child rearing time over again (no sign or hope of grandchildren) I think I would still instill the thought of "don't trust anyone, including those with up to date CRB checks" to them.
Pompom excited because there is 2 messages on the board with 0 replies (so far ) that I didn't post. Won't get the washing done!
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Message 2 - posted by U5209345, Oct 25, 2006

Good Morning excited pompom, how are you? Apart from excited that is <biggrin>

I have to disagree with you on instilling mistrust in children of all adults.

The majority of adults are very caring and protective of children. The media would have you think otherwise but this simply is not the case. I think it's better to teach children to be careful and ask permission of a known adult before embarking on something they are not sure of.

When running Beaver Scouts, I always told them that if ever they were lost somewhere, it was okay for them to approach a lady that had other children with her but no-one else (this information came from West Midlands Police Force on child safety procedures). I was saddened to give this advice but it was necessary.

Although I feel sorry for men and the backseat role they now have with regard to child safety, it is unfortunate that the majority of harm to children is at the hands of men. Before you men start shouting, I did say the majority. But children should not be taught that all men are bad and untrustworthy.

I believe that to raise a child to be suspicious of everyone and everything will be to raise a neurotic child who will have trouble forming relationships because of a deep-rooted feeling of mistrust.

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Message 3 - posted by Ramslad, Oct 25, 2006

Well said Angel, there has to be a sense of perspective about these things.

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Message 4 - posted by Lizziedripping, Oct 25, 2006

Hi Astro. Any news of Woody. Isn't life a coincidence. A dear old Chap called Sid went missing, from the early bird swimming session I attend every morning, for a couple of weeks and he was back this morning. The reason for my thread this morning (I sound like a preacher!) was because I emailed Shropshire radio with my thoughts on their topic of CRB checks. As follows
Good Morning Jim,
I believe it was muted on your programme the other day that badly behaved children may be as a result of lack of interaction with adults. It has long been my contention that the introduction of CRB checks has hindered that valuable coming together of youth and adult volunteers. (Disolvement of Telford S.S.C. eg) Surely the whole community should have CRB checks or not, as reason would dictate. The only adults ie parents of children at our swimming club who were picked up to be a danger to children were the unfortunate mothers who declared their post natal depression medical record.
Lyn Secretary Atcham S.S.C.
And again 'cause Jim wanted more clarity
Hi again,
As you know Telford S.S.C. dissolved. I'm not saying that the CRB was the only cause but it was funny that it coincided with it's introduction. The A.S.A. advised clubs to get CRB checks for all adults involved with teaching, poolside helpers etc. We, as a relatively small club in the country decided that it was best for all swimmer's parents to get checked. Don't believe that was the case for Rushmoor and Birmingham etc. There were a couple of delays with return of CRB forms and those anxious Mum's concerned didn't have to tell me, the secretary, because it was confidential but I'm glad they did because it allowed me to prepare others I gave the forms to. Sorry Jim, I could also site an instance of when a Dad feared going to protect a swimmer's younger sibling who was lost and crying . He didn't want anyone to think he was a sex offender. We've gone overboard with child protection to the extent of preventing their healthy development by interacting with adults. They need to learn that not all adults can be trusted. How do they do that if the only adults they know are their family members. I taught my children not to trust anyone, including family. There was not CRB checks then.
Lyn climbing off my soap box.

You could be right about me producing neurotics.
None of them want to start a family. My daughter voiced : "I wouldn't be allowed to bring them up as I would want to. I would be served a parenting order for sure!"
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Message 5 - posted by Ramslad, Oct 25, 2006

Pompom, as a Dad of two kids (3 & 7) I was in a playground with them a couple of weeks ago. While pushing my daughter on the swing a little lad came up to the swings but wasn't quite big enough to get on the seat on his own. Without thinking I picked him up, sat him on the swing and gave him a push to start him off.

Are you saying that by doing this I could be suspected of being some type of deviant?
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Message 6 - posted by Ramslad, Oct 25, 2006

Just to add to the above, I wouldn't think twice about going to the aid of a child who was hurt or lost - In fact I would find it impossible not to do so!

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Message 7 - posted by Lizziedripping, Oct 25, 2006

Ramslad. I'm not saying it. And I for one would be gratified to see that interaction. I just fear that it may be absent these days when, some less self assured, men would give that act serious thought before proceeding.
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Message 8 - posted by U4357578, Oct 25, 2006

Ram

That's what we are teaching kids.

Astro is right when she states that men are responsible for most assaults. I'd go further and say that it's men in the family that are most responsible. There are cases (thankfully, comparatively few) where strangers carry out assaults.

The fact of it is that people that are going to carry out these assaults will try to gain access to children through positions of trust.
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Message 9 - posted by U4357578, Oct 25, 2006

Ram

There are cases where people have actually not helped a child because of the fear of an allegation of assault.
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Message 10 - posted by Ramslad, Oct 25, 2006

Sorry Pompom, wasn't having a go at you, I should have worded that better.

It really annoys me that as a responsible caring person something as innocent as picking a kiddie up who had tumbled over can be construed by some "politically correct do-gooder" as an act of a criminal or indecent nature and have me labelled as some sort of pervert!
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Message 11 - posted by U4357578, Oct 25, 2006

Ram, you're right. It seems that generally, we are becoming hysterical.

Of course kids need protection but not everyone is out to hurt them.

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Message 12 - posted by Ramslad, Oct 25, 2006

Ram

That's what we are teaching kids.

Astro is right when she states that men are responsible for most assaults. I'd go further and say that it's men in the family that are most responsible. There are cases (thankfully, comparatively few) where strangers carry out assaults.

The fact of it is that people that are going to carry out these assaults will try to gain access to children through positions of trust.

Quoted from this message



Jonah,

I'm not denying incidents occur, and I would not be responsible for my actions if anyone was to harm my children, but I just get really sick of the attitude that you shouldn't show a bit of friendship/common decency towards someone for fear of it being taken the wrong way.

I'm not having a go at you mate, but if we let the minority of twisted individual who do wish to harm kids affect how the rest of the decent peole behave it is the start of a very slippery slope.

I shall now get of my soap box and get on with what I should be doing :)
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Message 13 - posted by Lizziedripping, Oct 25, 2006

I'm thrilled that Shropshire radio brought this subject up Ram and Jonah because I think that Astro Yous and myself are not the only carers for our fellow men. I just resent having to fill out a CRB form in an attempt to prove that fact.
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Message 14 - posted by U4357578, Oct 25, 2006



I'm not having a go at you mate, but if we let the minority of twisted individual who do wish to harm kids affect how the rest of the decent peole behave it is the start of a very slippery slope.


Quoted from this message



Ramslad

I know, I fear that we have already started on that slope.

Mums are teaching their kids to be suspicious of everyone. It's a shame because that one in a thousand baddy (or whatever the ratio is) is affecting everyone.

Trust, where do we draw the line?
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Message 15 - posted by U4357578, Oct 25, 2006

Pompom,

I'm cleared already.... No choice, I work with vulnerable adults, children, all sorts.
I'm thrilled that Shropshire radio brought this subject up Ram and Jonah because I think that Astro Yous and myself are not the only carers for our fellow men. I just resent having to fill out a CRB form in an attempt to prove that fact.

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Message 16 - posted by Lizziedripping, Oct 25, 2006

Hi Jonah.A while back when I was secretary of a local competitive swimming club and heavy into all this A.S.A. burocracy I was doing the circuit of Table Tennis tournaments with my younger son. We regularly met up with a group of boys that usually swept the board in their categories. True some of them were being trained at the Grantham Academy by then but I chatted to a Dad and chief coach of those London lads (probably trying to pick up tips for my son). I gathered that the reason for their success was because he had transformed his garage (only single car sized ) bought a second hand T T table and invited the neighbourhood's children round for coaching. He very quickly formed a club of keen youngsters who played day and night to get good. Do you know? I had to explain what a CRB check was. No doubt the E.T.T.A have cottoned on now. Just hope it hasn't stifled the development of prospective table tennis players as it had of prospective synchronised swimmers in our area.
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Message 17 - posted by U5209345, Oct 25, 2006

Hello Ramslad, how are you?

The only way the 'slippery slope' can be fully averted (agree with jonah that we are already on it) is for ordinary people to stop being so scared of the nannies in our society. I don't know what has happened to the backbone of Britain, we have been turned into a group of spineless people who are too scared to say or do anything.

Like yourself, I would go to the aid of anyone that was in trouble but being a woman I would not have the same slur thrown at me. I do believe, by and large, in our judicial system and if, say you, for example, helped a child and was then 'accused' of being a 'pervert', I trust our legal system to see through that and throw the case out and, of course, you would demand that it be removed from any files regarding you.

It will only ever improve once people start to stand up for themselves (everyone else does!) but I fear everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame or fortune; have to say, it still wouldn't stop me. I have been called a mouthy c*w on many occasions, I'm not, I just don't tolerate people pushing me around if I choose not to be pushed (this is where philiom called me Lara Croft :-), I'm not - I wish)! But the majority of people need to adopt that approach or things will continue to deteriorate :-(
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Message 18 - posted by U4357578, Oct 25, 2006

I trust our legal system to see through that and throw the case out and, of course, you would demand that it be removed from any files regarding you.

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The problem is Astro, that mud would stick. Look at the guy in the Rachael Nickell case. The police have stated that they are not looking for anyone else. He's been found 'no case to answer'. It was years ago but people still harrass him. I bet that there are a few on here that would hang him anyway.
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Message 19 - posted by U5209345, Oct 26, 2006

Hello jonah

I'm not familiar with the case you have cited but that is the fault of people (again) not the system. The media is also to blame, reporting should not be carried out until firm evidence against a person is found. I know some will say 'the people have a right to know' - to know what? That the police haven't finished their search yet? Wouldn't it be better to know the facts rather than the suppositions that necessarily take place at the beginning of any investigation? Yes, the police do, at times, arrest the wrong person but the police, being human beings, sometimes make mistakes, just like the rest of us. Mostly, the mistakes are corrected. It is the public's inability to wait for the real culprit to be found that can be a problem, always have to have someone to blame instantly and this sort of pressure can often lead to the wrong person being convicted because 'the public demand' whatever

I have to believe in our system or the alternative is anarchy
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Message 20 - posted by Lizziedripping, Oct 26, 2006

Hi Astro. I would like to believe in the system but it let me down 11 years ago and I haven't been able to trust a professional ever since. Only thing going for it is if we can ward of too much Euro or U.S.A. influence it's probably the best in the world.
Pompom first in the queue for a new planet if one comes along!
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