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Discussion:

Education. Education Education. Has it really failed?

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Message 1 - posted by Lizziedripping, Oct 5, 2006

Yet again a thread developed from another posting "Teenagers Smoking to produce small babies" has inspired a new discussion.I wonder how many under 20 year olds use the message board? I would guess 90% of us are older. Shame, it is a good educator. It works for me and I would have appreciated such a board in my youth when I was getting bum steers from so called experts.
No Cornwall. You are not young!
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Message 2 - posted by lysis, Oct 5, 2006

Having been to British Public School a "bum steer" was something us young boys spent much of our time avoiding (although apparantly John Peel failed in that regard).
Troubling is we spend so much time worrying young persons silly about the dangers lurking on the internet , that they are probably terrified of visiting even a BBC website (let's face it, Lord Reith would come across as a pretty weird character to tody's youth).
Each generation is just so much worse than it's parents - amazing we've managed to progress so far isn't it?
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Message 3 - posted by Lizziedripping, Oct 5, 2006

Are you humouring me? I won't be humoured by an x Public School boy. Wonder where I picked up that expresssion. Not Monmouth Secondary Mod. for sure. Mind you I did travel on the school bus with some Grammer boys and we all know what that school produced?

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Message 4 - posted by Lizziedripping, Oct 6, 2006

Colin Young's statement that 'life is an exam' has inspired me to divert from the boring housework to answer. Yes. If the abolishment of the 11+ was designed to help a youngster develop the independence /confidence without the blow of failing at 11 I'm not sure it has worked. I started my formal state education 1954. Along the line astute teachers estimated that I would probably fail my 11+ and woe and behold they were right. You see, I had worked it out that perhaps it would be easier to go along with the middling group and thankfully I landed in an A form in a very good secondary Mod. If I'd made it to a D form in the Grammer I too would have had to suffer all that homework! I thank heavens for those teachers who didn't require National Standards to educate me. I and my friends knew our place in society and never resented the egg heads who went on to earn more money.And certainly wouldn't have turned up at auditions/interviews out of our depth!
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Message 5 - posted by GrumpyOldGit, Oct 6, 2006

Good Evening, PomPom.

Even though we've already established that I'm NOT an ex-English teacher, I can't help noticing the irony in the sentence below. Surely, if you did know your place you would know that it should have been "My friends and I ...". <laugh>

I and my friends knew our place in society ...

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Message 6 - posted by Lizziedripping, Oct 7, 2006

Very good Grumpy. An excellent spotter of irony. I'm a pretty good ironer. I've phoned round my friends and they all agree that our perception of you being a M.C.P. must be correct.They forgive me for putting them second! I rushed to your defence for I, being selfish, get a kick from a response even the critical ones. Are you sure you weren't (or is that wasn't)an English teacher in a former life? Wish those moderators would correct the spelling and grammer instead of hiding some intriguing points of view.
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Message 7 - posted by GrumpyOldGit, Oct 7, 2006

Why does pointing out your mistake make me a MCP? Or have you just decided that that's what I am, end of story?

Good point PomPom - why don't they just blank out the so-called 'offensive' words?

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Message 8 - posted by Lizziedripping, Oct 7, 2006

ummmmmmm. Likewise a good point. I'm warming to you. Then again a lot of my friends are M.C.P's. Infact I spent many happy hours during my teens (when the grammer kids were doing their English Homework) tending to pigs on our local farm. ahhhhhhhhh memories of Romeo the Wessex saddle back. Loved having his back scratched! He had a lot of Juliets. Mainly large whites.
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Message 9 - posted by GrumpyOldGit, Oct 7, 2006

Mainly large whites.

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Yes? What about them? Surely you're not picking on them just because they're lesbi... Oh, I see! Sorry - I thought you said MANLY large whites!! <laugh>

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Message 10 - posted by U5980963, Oct 7, 2006

Large whites? Is this about cabbages or maybe butterflies?
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Message 11 - posted by John of Paddington, Oct 7, 2006

Education has become another casualty,like the NHS, under New Labour. Despite Bliars big speach about Education, Education, Education, this Expublic school boy has overseen a drop in standards, mainly because he has insisted on targets. Persons will high results are being refused entry into University because they come from the wrong Class or Colour in the community.
Many years ago, during the days of the Iron Curtain, Eastern Europe was run on the 'TARGET' principle. A target was set, , production was reported to have been achieved and the 'bonus' was reported to have been paid. Headlines and the record looked good, but in reality there was little production and no bonus. That is what we now have here under 'New Labour'.
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Message 12 - posted by Lizziedripping, Oct 7, 2006

Grumpy. Don't tell me you went to a public school!
You are determined to shatter my illusions. Hard not using those moderated off words isn't it?
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Message 13 - posted by Lizziedripping, Oct 7, 2006

Hello John. Please tell me that the East Germans are better off today.
Pom Pom appreciating the education of this message board.
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Message 14 - posted by GrumpyOldGit, Oct 7, 2006

No! I went to Secondary Modern until the advent of Comprehensive schools, and I don't think it's done me any harm.

However, I don't think we can entirely blame the Government for the lack of results - some kids either don't want to learn, or are simply not capable of taking it all on-board.

In my class (a few years ago) there were some kids who, even though they had the ability, just weren't interested in being taught. On the other hand, in the lower 'band' (don't want to be accused of being a class-snob) there were kids with a genuine desire to learn and improve themselves. I wonder who would have been less of a distraction in class?
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Message 15 - posted by Lizziedripping, Oct 7, 2006

Hi Grumpy. I'm not sure there whether you are, on reflection in favour of comprehensive education? Was it Rad Butler? Happily my education was uninterrupted and a damned good secondary modern education allowed me to go with a flow of youngsters who were interested in being taught, if not wanting to expend too much energy on it, to an equally good Grammar School where 'my friends and I'got the grades to persue our chosen career.

Careers. Now there's a good subject to start a new discussion.
Now look what you've done! Can't get on with my housework for time wasted checking spelling and grammer (that one is the er) and spelling!
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Message 16 - posted by U5980963, Oct 7, 2006

JOP steady on with abuse about expublic school types. Think of the hundreds of millions of pounds saved annually by the state not having to educate these kids.
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Message 17 - posted by GrumpyOldGit, Oct 7, 2006

As far as I remember, the class members didn't change much during the changeover from split-stream to comprehensive. I was disappointed about this at the time, because even though my teachers said I was capable of O-Level at Physics and Maths, I wasn't allowed to move because I was ex-Secondary school. Of course, I'll never know whether or not that was a blessing in disguise.
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Message 18 - posted by Lizziedripping, Oct 7, 2006

Not a blessing Grumpy. There is a shortage of scientists today. That is where I think the secondary Mod fell down. Just because the children couldn't speak proper English like what we can and use the correct spelling and grammer they couldn't possible be taught physics and chemistry. Happily the study of pigs gave me a distinction in Biology (the one science subject we were taught) and enabled me to get that transfer to Grammar school. Guess what I failed O'level biology! That Grammar biology teacher was so boring compared to Mr Bobbet at the Secondary Mod.
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Message 19 - posted by GrumpyOldGit, Oct 7, 2006

That Grammar biology teacher was so boring compared to Mr Bobbet at the Secondary Mod.

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Of course! Silly me - I missed that point completely. We had Mrs X as the maths teacher for the first couple of years at Secondary school. I'm not in anyway doubting her ability, becasue other pupils got on really well with her, but I didn't really learn much from her at all - whether that be for personality clashes, differing styles, or whatever.

In the end my Dad asked the school if I could change class, and Mr Heath was the best teacher I ever had - he taught Physics, too. Thank you Gerry (sorry - Sir)!!
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Message 20 - posted by U5647609, Oct 7, 2006

I don't think education fails people, I think some schools and teachers do. I enjoyed school when I was there but I didn't like the way teachers would brand pupils with the same behaviour/attitude of older family members that they teached previously. I left school at a young age, not proud of it, but I've done alright for myself and family. However, I do tell my children how important education and good grades are.
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