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Discussion:

What is the argument against racism?

Messages  1 - 20 of 92

 
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Message 1 - posted by U3508276 - alt id 4, May 27, 2006

How do you start to convince rational inteligent people who think that other colours and ethnic groups are lesser individuals,that they are wrong? Simply saying they are wrong is not enough.
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Message 2 - posted by Jem, May 28, 2006

How do you start to convince rational inteligent people who think that other colours and ethnic groups are lesser individuals,that they are wrong? Simply saying they are wrong is not enough.

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That's a good point, I've often wondered that myself. It's all very well having protests etc., against racism but how on earth do you change someone's mind about it. If people are full of hate and ignorance then it is very difficult.
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Message 3 - posted by John of Paddington, May 28, 2006

I get puzzelled too. There is a 'Black Police Union', There is 'Asian Woman Achievements', there is a Muslim Parliament, a Scottish and Welsh assemblies, these, and many like them are OK, but if it's 'White, English or British then it's racist. Is there some new meaning og the word 'RACE' I am unaware of, as far as I am aware there is only one human race.
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Message 4 - posted by JoJo, May 28, 2006

I don't think the words, rational intelligent people, and racism go together.

If they are rational and intelligent, then then would not be racist.
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Message 5 - posted by mesofar, May 28, 2006

How do you start to convince rational inteligent people who think that other colours and ethnic groups are lesser individuals,that they are wrong? Simply saying they are wrong is not enough.

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This reply will be over simplified but you'll get the drift. You will find that a lot of racists are not racist on colour grounds but culture.
The racism is then fed by governments and councils who pander to ethnic minority needs, often to the detrement of born and bred locals. This breeds contempt that a certain section of the community is 'getting' at the expense of another. Wouldn't matter one dot what colour the people concerned are.

I can only speak from experience having been in production management for thirty years before retirement. During that time I employed hundreds of ethnic minority employees, some good, some bad and some very bad. All were employed on merit and suitability to the job, colour was never an issue.

Rational intelligent people are not racist from birth, they are made by their upbringing and their peers. Now depending on your contact with ethnic minorities will determine your reaction to my next comment. Generally ethnic minorities are more racist than indiginous locals.

Further to that in industry a disciplinary issue can and does get turned into a racist issue, when this happens some companies will deliberately overlook or sidestep the issue so as not to be involved in litigation. Again this breeds contempt from other employees who see a colleague manipulating the system for their own ends.

An example of what winds folk up is a few months ago X amount of money is to be poured into getting Asians into football. Apparently not enough Asians come through the ranks to proffessional football.
So what? Neither do Eskimos but who's fighting their corner?

Finally back to your main point, convincing a racist who sees colour as an issue will be nigh on impossible. He's likely to have had very little or no contact with ethnic minorities and as I said earlier, will see his/her government seemingly putting them first.<erm>
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Message 6 - posted by TheLocalYokel, May 28, 2006

How do you start to convince rational inteligent people who think that other colours and ethnic groups are lesser individuals,that they are wrong? Simply saying they are wrong is not enough.

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What would you do? I admit that I am not intelligent enough to come up with a solution.

Before you answer will you clarify one thing?

Your post seems to suggest that only members of ethnic majorities can be racist. I may have misread you and will be delighted if I have (and I also apologise for so doing), but racists are not always white people.

In my city of Bristol for instance one of the current public order difficulties facing the police is racial tension between the Somali community and other ethnic minority groups.



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Message 7 - posted by U3508276 - alt id 4, May 28, 2006

Some people even wonder whether what we see and condemn as racism is morally wrong or wrong in any way.

I suppose it is a lesson or exercise in reorientation that requires example.Not just in the way that we behave ourselves but situations taken from history, the present and literature cinema sport etc. Can anyone suggest good examples?
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Message 8 - posted by U3775715 - alt id 1, May 28, 2006

But there may be no argument against it. Perhaps it is a natural inclination.
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Message 9 - posted by U3312314, May 28, 2006

How do you start to convince rational inteligent people who think that other colours and ethnic groups are lesser individuals,that they are wrong? Simply saying they are wrong is not enough.

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I think you may have inadvertantly hit the nail on the head here. If they are that predjudiced, for what ever reason, surely they cannot be rational, intelligent people - just bad tempered old bigots.
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Message 10 - posted by U3775715 - alt id 1, May 28, 2006

Why should it be 'prejudiced' to believe in the absence of contrary conviction that those from other ethnic or skin colour groups are different and perhaps less in various ways?
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Message 11 - posted by U3508276 - alt id 4, May 28, 2006

The wife suggests 'Guess who's coming to dinner' but thats a bit old hat.
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Message 12 - posted by U3312314, May 28, 2006

Why should it be 'prejudiced' to believe in the absence of contrary conviction that those from other ethnic or skin colour groups are different and perhaps less in various ways?

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Its predjudice for the very reason that there is no evidence to support the belief of their inadequacy. An assumption of inferiority is made on the simle basis of the colour of their skin, (or gender, age, sexual orientation etc).
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Message 13 - posted by U3775715 - alt id 1, May 28, 2006

Why your presumption in favour of equality? If some people have different skin tones, facial characteristics, cultural habits, histories andbeliefs, why can't we think or believe that we a nd our s are better? All the history taught in our schools for centuries indicates that the English or British are best. We're told of our missionaries, our benevolent colonisation, the defeat of natives and savages,the evils of the republican French, the Bosch and the horrors and threats of catholic hegemony. Why should we now have to think that all that was wrong? Why should we have to accept that outsiders or anyone other is now as good or better?
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Message 14 - posted by U3508276 - alt id 4, May 28, 2006

For the same reason that we had Women's Hour and Children's Hour. Because some people wouldn't treat them as normal or worthy of attention in other programmes. The need for the names in your list will evaporate with a general acceptance of equality.
I get puzzelled too. There is a 'Black Police Union', There is 'Asian Woman Achievements', there is a Muslim Parliament, a Scottish and Welsh assemblies, these, and many like them are OK, but if it's 'White, English or British then it's racist. Is there some new meaning og the word 'RACE' I am unaware of, as far as I am aware there is only one human race.

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Message 15 - posted by U3312314, May 28, 2006

My presumption is for equality, unless proven otherwise. You cite our superiority on cultural grounds - like burning people at the stake because they didn't share our beliefs? Like capturing african people and exporting them to the West Indies as slaves? Like sending an expeditionary force to palestine to impose Christianity. These and countless other details are not taught in schools because 'history' books are written by the victor.

In more recent times "history" lessons suggest that the UK won two world wars - well as read the publcations we didn't start to win those wars until the Americans joined in on our side!

Why should we have to accept that outsiders or anyone other is now as good or better?

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My view is that we must accept that outsiders may well be as good as us - until we are proven wrong.

Or as someone else said "We are all human"
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Message 16 - posted by U2487692, May 28, 2006

Interesting that those who express pro or anti discriminatory views like the BNP sympathisers and their mirrors haven't joined in.
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Message 17 - posted by John of Paddington, May 28, 2006

I am all for equality, what upsets me, to paraphrase 'Aninimal Farm', Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others. We have, in this Country, positive discrimination and that is as evil as any form of apartheid. It is the cause of the rise of the far right being shown in the last council elections. We need to be fair, but that means fair to all regardless of origin. If someone has been waiting years for a house why should a single mother or imigrant jump the queue. The idea of 'Targets' should be abolished and work allocated on merit alone, the best person for the job gets it.
For the same reason that we had Women's Hour and Children's Hour. Because some people wouldn't treat them as normal or worthy of attention in other programmes. The need for the names in your list will evaporate with a general acceptance of equality.
I get puzzelled too. There is a 'Black Police Union', There is 'Asian Woman Achievements', there is a Muslim Parliament, a Scottish and Welsh assemblies, these, and many like them are OK, but if it's 'White, English or British then it's racist. Is there some new meaning og the word 'RACE' I am unaware of, as far as I am aware there is only one human race.

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Message 18 - posted by U3508276 - alt id 4, May 29, 2006

It is not to do with equality although that generally flows from tolerance understanding and a lack of prejudice. Dog in the manger attitudes and an inability to revise received traditional educational inadequacy on world social and political history leave older generations and ignorant younger ones with a myopic view of reality and the joys and depth that come from a wider experience.
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Message 19 - posted by miss, May 29, 2006

<ok>
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Message 20 - posted by Henthitchen, May 29, 2006

I think discrimination on grounds of skin colour is silly and untenable. However, the British Isle are our homeland (ie native Brits, indigenous peoples, call them what you will). It does seem reasonable,therefore, that someone coming here to settle should not be given any special help. Regrettably that is not the case.

In order for us to progress, we need to get rid of the whole idea of 'multiculturalism' and take back our own country. The Race Relations Act itself gives special priveleges to alien ethnic groups, which native Brits do not have. This is wrong.
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