BBC Home

Explore the BBC


18th September 2019
Accessibility help
Text only

BBC Homepage

Channel Islands
Guernsey
Jersey


Contact Us


Like this page?
Send it to a friend!

 

or register to join or start a new discussion.


Discussion:

Miles and pints, what a mess!

Messages  541 - 560 of 1069

 
First | < Previous 21  22  23  24  25  26  27  28  29  30    Next > | Last
 

Message 541 - posted by Wirral Red, Sep 26, 2006

On the other hand what do you mean by a 'proper system'? A collection of units don't function as a system, which the Imperial system clearly does.

Quoted from this message


There's no logical relation between pints and cubic inches for example, whereas litres and cubic centimetres relate to each other easily.
Complain about a message      

Message 542 - posted by EdSomerset, Sep 26, 2006


There's no logical relation between pints and cubic inches for example, whereas litres and cubic centimetres relate to each other easily.

Quoted from this message



That's because the gallon on which the pint is based is in turn based on ten pounds of distilled water, not on cubic inches. It is therefore decimal in that respect. For the purposes of trade it made more sense to have units of liquid (alcohol for example) to be based on a unit of mass for transport purposes than a cubed linear measure, which is all very neat scientifically but is neither here nor there in practical terms.
Complain about a message      

Message 543 - posted by John of Paddington, Sep 27, 2006

Lets face it, the British public do not like metric. Despite years of Government indoctrination they have cocked a deaf ear and still like the temperature, and all other weights and messures in 'old money'. You can lead a horse to water, as the saying goes. The British are not Europian, they have, over the last 1,000 years deleloped an insular and unique attitude to life, law and religion. The Government, despite flooding the Country with imigrants, both legal and illegal, can not dilute the hard core of love of the indigenus population for imperial messure.
Complain about a message      

Message 544 - posted by EdSomerset, Sep 28, 2006

Give it a rest would you? The British ARE European and this argument is about whether or not we should get rid of our tradional weights and measures, not about immigration or 'nasty' foreigners.
Complain about a message      

Message 545 - posted by Wirral Red, Oct 1, 2006

For the purposes of trade it made more sense to have units of liquid (alcohol for example) to be based on a unit of mass for transport purposes than a cubed linear measure, which is all very neat scientifically but is neither here nor there in practical terms.

Quoted from this message


But surely it's also useful to know how big it is? After all, when it comes to transporting goods the size is just as important as the weight, hence the recent changes to the postal service - which unlike metrication happened smoothly and decisively!
Complain about a message      

Message 546 - posted by Wirral Red, Oct 1, 2006

Let's face it, the British public do not like metric. Despite years of Government indoctrination they have cocked a deaf ear and still like the temperature, and all other weights and messures in 'old money'. You can lead a horse to water, as the saying goes. The British are not European, they have, over the last 1,000 years deleloped an insular and unique attitude to life, law and religion. The Government, despite flooding the Country with imigrants, both legal and illegal, can not dilute the hard core of love of the indigenus population for imperial messure.

Quoted from this message


Correction - YOU don't like metric! You're making a very sweeping statement you know - most of what you're saying only applies to you - not to the British public as a whole!

For a country similar in culture to the UK, you can't get much closer than Ireland, yet they've adopted metric without any bother.

And the correct spelling is MEASURE! How many times do I have to tell you? <steam>
Complain about a message      

Message 547 - posted by Wirral Red, Oct 1, 2006

Let's face it, the British public do not like metric. Despite years of Government indoctrination they have cocked a deaf ear and still like the temperature, and all other weights and messures in 'old money'. You can lead a horse to water, as the saying goes. The British are not European, they have, over the last 1,000 years deleloped an insular and unique attitude to life, law and religion. The Government, despite flooding the Country with imigrants, both legal and illegal, cannot dilute the hard core of love of the indigenus population for Imperial measure.

Quoted from this message


At the risk of sounding like a broken record, let's look in summary at the reasons why - according to you - the British don't like metric:


It's only being forced on us by the EU?

WRONG! As I've said countless times, we CHOSE to go metric BEFORE we joined the EU!

1884 - Britain signs the 'Metre Convention'
1897 - British Government legalises metric system for use in UK
1965 - British Government sets target of 10 years for British industry to convert to metric - we still haven't finished the process after 41 years!
1973 - Britain formally joins the EEC along with Ireland and Denmark

Far from being truly European, the adoption of metric has been a truly INTERNATIONAL effort thanks to the Metre Convention, hence countries such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India, China and Japan are metric.


Metric is foreign; Imperial is British. It is unpatriotic to use metric?

To reject something purely on the grounds that it's 'foreign' is ridiculously xenophobic. The motor car was invented in Germany but it doesn't stop people driving when they could just as easily use public transport! Also, the aeroplane was invented in the USA but it doesn't stop people taking all these cheap flights! (Admittedly there are other reasons for trying to stop people from taking them but that's another story.)

Furthermore, Imperial units don't actually have British origins. The abbreviations lb and oz come from Italian (libbra and onza), while the names for the two sub systems of weights within Imperial come from French - avoirdupois means 'goods of weight', while troy measure is based on what was used in the town of Troyes in France. Therefore, far from being truly British, pounds and ounces have their roots in Italy and France.

The British people deserve the best system of measure so it is patriotic to support metrication.


The world's only superpower uses Imperial; Britain should do the same?

WRONG AGAIN! The USA does NOT use Imperial, but a system based on it, hence the different sized gallon. In any case, to base Britain's measurement policy on a single trading partner - even if it is a superpower - would be incredibly short sighted as only 12% of British trade is with the United States! The remaing 88% is with metric countries so it makes sense for us to go metric! Furthermore, China is on the verge of becoming the world's next superpower and they use metric - plus they have no problem trading with the Americans! In addition, the USA is GOING metric, though the process has been very slow like in Britain.


It'll cost too much?

Much of the cost of metrication has already been met, plus NOT metricating costs more. Dual pricing costs much more than completing the changeover.


British people can't think in kilograms?

WRONG AGAIN! Most people in Britain are familiar with a packet of sugar and this weighs one kilogram. While it's perfectly true that older people do often find it harder to cope with change, this isn't a valid argument against going metric because the same argument could have been used to stop the introduction of decimal currency - which was aided by a leaflet campaign to every home. Why shouldn't the same thing happen with metric? The British are no less intelligent than the rest of the world's population so they should have no problem understanding the simplicity of the metric system!


People should be free to choose whatever system they want?

Having two systems running concurrently just leads to confusion, hence the Beagle probe going missing! If we're going to measure things then it makes sense that we should all use the same system and given that 93.5% of the world has converted to metric it would make sense that it should be the metric system that we should use.


What about colloquial expressions?

These are unaffected by metrication. Metric countries still use sayings with Imperial units such as 'I haven't got an ounce of strength'. Also, in some cases non-metric names have been retained as slang for metric measures - in France 'un livre' (a pound) is used colloquially to describe half a kilogram.


Why don't we change to driving on the right?

This is a completely separate issue to metrication and should be treated as such. With Britain being an island it isn't really that important that we should drive on the right - the cost of changing over would be far greater than completing metrication. Also, it's worth pointing out that some countries such as Ireland, Malta, Cyprus, Australia, New Zealand, India and Japan are metric and drive on the left.


So there you have it. There isn't a single valid reason for us not going metric, but plenty of reasons why we should!
Complain about a message      

Message 548 - posted by Wirral Red, Oct 1, 2006

That's interesting, because that means that we have 'soft metrication' in this country: I don't have a problem with that. Not so sure about 'hard metrication', as you just have a bunch of pseudo-metric units that wouldn't be properly metric or Imperial.

Quoted from this message


We have both actually. Measuring petrol in litres instead of gallons is hard metrication, as is pricing by kilogram instead of by pound.

With road signs, both would be likely to occur. Distances wouls be soft metrication (obviously), whereas speed limits would most likely be hard metrication.
Complain about a message      

Message 549 - posted by Wirral Red, Oct 1, 2006

So? What's wrong with that? If anything, that'd make it even EASIER to compare prices because not only would the units of measurement be the same, but the currency would be as well!

Quoted from this message


Which is the whole point of the Euro in the first place!
Complain about a message      

Message 550 - posted by EdSomerset, Oct 2, 2006


But surely it's also useful to know how big it is? After all, when it comes to transporting goods the size is just as important as the weight, hence the recent changes to the postal service - which unlike metrication happened smoothly and decisively!

Quoted from this message



Seeing as liquids are carried in standard casks or barrels depending on the liquid, it's fairly easy to tell how big and also how heavy they are. That's been the case for centuries. The postal service is easier to change because packages already come in standard sizes and weight is already linked to cost, you therefore have a system that combines the two.

Face it, if imperial was as impractical as you make out the Wright brothers would never have flown and America would never have got to the Moon (in both cases beating metric countries), along with a lot of other scientific and engineering acheivements. People are happy using imperial on a daily basis and you still haven't presented a good reason to do away with entirely.
Complain about a message      

Message 551 - posted by EdSomerset, Oct 2, 2006



The British people deserve the best system of measure so it is patriotic to support metrication.


Quoted from this message



They already have it; we already do use metric on a widespread basis in this country. You can't on one hand say we have metric and on the other say this isn't a metric country. If they want to use Imperial as well for some things, then why not?


WRONG AGAIN! The USA does NOT use Imperial, but a system based on it, hence the different sized gallon.

Quoted from this message



Finally, you admit that the USA does not use Imperial.


So there you have it. There isn't a single valid reason for us not going metric, but plenty of reasons why we should!

Quoted from this message



But we already have, otherwise NOTHING in this country would use metric units. You aren't making a distinction betweening using metric and outlawing Imperial, which isn't the same thing at all.

Metric countries still use sayings with Imperial units such as 'I haven't got an ounce of strength'. Also, in some cases non-metric names have been retained as slang for metric measures - in France 'un livre' (a pound) is used colloquially to describe half a kilogram.

Quoted from this message



Whether or not a country uses non-metric units as a form of expression relies entirely on when they went metric and to what exten previous systems formed paart of the language. You wouldn't expect phrases to vanish from the language overnight with metrication would you? The French livre is a NON-metric unit; it is not used internationally as part of the metric system. I thought you were trying to make out that metric countries don't use non-metric units?

British people can't think in kilograms?

WRONG AGAIN! Most people in Britain are familiar with a packet of sugar and this weighs one kilogram.

Quoted from this message



That also happens to approximate to 2lbs. A bag of sugar is more of a comparative unit: have you ever asked anyone how many kilos equal a bag of sugar? After all, most people in the UK don't even know how many Euros there are to the Pound, some suggesting 14! Someone may give the weight of something in bags of sugar, but it doesn't necessarily follow that they know how many KG one weighs. Most people in this country give there weight in stones and pounds and use ounces when it comes to cooking. That's the way it is and I don't see anything wrong with it. Forcing unecessary change is an act of zealotry. I mean why change pints to half litres when there is no metric standard for measures of alcohol? Change for the sake of change makes no sense whatsoever.

Having two systems running concurrently just leads to confusion, hence the Beagle probe going missing!

Quoted from this message



WRONG, Beagle 2 was absolutely nothing to do with confusion between units, that was some American probe, besides that's a single extreme example. What if they'd mixed up km with metres?

This country mananges quite nicely with both systems thank you very much. What you are proposing is that the public should be told what to do by the Government, not the other way round.

I shouldn't bother with trying to correct JoP's xenophobia or his refusal to accept that a) metric is a good system and b) it's down to the Government, not the EU, to what extent it is implemented in this country.
Complain about a message      

Message 552 - posted by EdSomerset, Oct 2, 2006




Face it, if imperial was as impractical as you make out the Wright brothers would never have flown and America would never have got to the Moon (in both cases beating metric countries), along with a lot of other scientific and engineering acheivements.

Quoted from this message



I appreciate that they use US not Imperial in the USA, before anyone points this out, but the US system is derrived from Imperial and the Wright brothers and NASA weren't using metric. I wasn't contradicting myself, because I know I've said that the USA doesn't use Imperial in the past, but I was showing the practicallity of Imperial and US systems in an historical context.
Complain about a message      

Message 553 - posted by EdSomerset, Oct 2, 2006

Let's face it, the British public do not like metric. Despite years of Government indoctrination they have cocked a deaf ear and still like the temperature, and all other weights and messures in 'old money'. You can lead a horse to water, as the saying goes. The British are not European, they have, over the last 1,000 years deleloped an insular and unique attitude to life, law and religion. The Government, despite flooding the Country with imigrants, both legal and illegal, can not dilute the hard core of love of the indigenus population for imperial messure.

Correction - YOU don't like metric! You're making a very sweeping statement you know - most of what you're saying only applies to you - not to the British public as a whole!

For a country similar in culture to the UK, you can't get much closer than Ireland, yet they've adopted metric without any bother.

And the correct spelling is MEASURE! How many times do I have to tell you? <steam>

Quoted from this message



Most things he says apply to him and not the public as a whole. I shouldn't get all worked up about it. Have you noticed all the other words he can't spell?
Complain about a message      

Message 554 - posted by Wirral Red, Oct 5, 2006

They already have it; we already do use metric on a widespread basis in this country. You can't on one hand say we have metric and on the other say this isn't a metric country. If they want to use Imperial as well for some things, then why not?

Quoted from this message

We do USE metric, but we aren't OFFICIALLY a metric country.
Finally, you admit that the USA does not use Imperial.

Quoted from this message

Having looked at sources on the internet, I've realised that you were right in saying that their system isn't Imperial. According to the USMA website, that system doesn't actually have a name. Nevertheless, the units still have the same names so it can lead to confusion.
But we already have, otherwise NOTHING in this country would use metric units. You aren't making a distinction betweening using metric and outlawing Imperial, which isn't the same thing at all.

Quoted from this message

It is. When we went decimal, did we JUST adopt decimal currency? No, we also scrapped pounds, shillings and pence in the process! It wouldn't have made sense to have kept /s/d alongside decimal currency as it would've just been confusing, so NEITHER does it make sense to keep Imperial alongside metric!
What if they'd mixed up km with metres?

Quoted from this message

The metre is the base SI unit of length and is used for all calculations. Kilometres are merely a multiple.
Complain about a message      

Message 555 - posted by Wirral Red, Oct 5, 2006

It's only being forced on us by the EU?

WRONG! As I've said countless times, we CHOSE to go metric BEFORE we joined the EU!

1884 - Britain signs the 'Metre Convention'
1897 - British Government legalises metric system for use in UK
1965 - British Government sets target of 10 years for British industry to convert to metric - we still haven't finished the process after 41 years!
1973 - Britain formally joins the EEC along with Ireland and Denmark

Far from being truly European, the adoption of metric has been a truly INTERNATIONAL effort thanks to the Metre Convention, hence countries such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India, China and Japan are metric.

Quoted from this message

Furthermore, even if we weren't in the EU metrication would still be important for trade with countries such as Brazil, India, China and Thailand.
Complain about a message      

Message 556 - posted by Wirral Red, Oct 5, 2006

Face it, if imperial was as impractical as you make out the Wright brothers would never have flown and America would never have got to the Moon (in both cases beating metric countries), along with a lot of other scientific and engineering acheivements. People are happy using imperial on a daily basis and you still haven't presented a good reason to do away with entirely.

Quoted from this message


I'm not saying that Imperial is impractical - I'm saying that it's impractical to have two systems side by side! If we're going to measure things then it makes sense for us to all use the same system and given that we started to convert to metric then surely that's the one we should use?
Complain about a message      

Message 557 - posted by John of Paddington, Oct 5, 2006

What part of the metricationboard are you working for Red? No wleave off and let the British go their own way. Metric is a mess.
Complain about a message      

Message 558 - posted by U5980963, Oct 5, 2006

Whatever it is, metrication is not a mess. It is ruthlessly ordered and logical.
Complain about a message      

Message 559 - posted by Wirral Red, Oct 5, 2006

What part of the metricationboard are you working for Red? Now leave off and let the British go their own way. Metric is a mess.

Quoted from this message


WRONG! Having two systems is a mess, as I've said countless times.
Complain about a message      

Message 560 - posted by U5980963, Oct 6, 2006

Let the British go their own way? if there was a vote 90% would want only metric. It's only the far right wing and the very old who pretend or won't try to understand the system.
Complain about a message      
First | < Previous 21  22  23  24  25  26  27  28  29  30    Next > | Last

This discussion is tagged with:
- Devon

getting involved How to reply to messagespopup icon
complain  Alert us about a messagepopup icon
online safety Are you being safe online?popup icon

Messages  541 - 560 of 1069

 


About the BBC | Help | Terms of Use | Privacy & Cookies Policy