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Discussion:

Miles and pints, what a mess!

Messages  441 - 460 of 1069

 
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Message 441 - posted by EdSomerset, Aug 16, 2006

I've just found out what WILL happen to pints of beer if we complete the changeover - it seems that it will contain the same quantity but will be called a glass of beer.

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That seems an odd comprimise to appease those who want to get rid of the pint and those who want to keep it. Colloquially it will probably be still called a pint as it still will be and a 'glass' is neither here nor there, as you point out.
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Message 442 - posted by Wirral Red, Aug 17, 2006

Oddly enough I've never met any foreigners who have had the same problems as your solitary Frenchman.

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Like I said, I've never seen a million pounds. Just because you've never seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist!
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Message 443 - posted by Wirral Red, Aug 17, 2006

I recall teaching a French Canadian the Imperial measure, pointing out its 'organic' origins and the way it had become part of everyday use in our poetry. Half a league, Full Fathoms Five, etc.. He stated that he found it more natural.

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Like that link said, New Zealand has been totally metric since 1970 but they still use Imperial units in colloquial sayings.

All we ask is the freedom of choice, is that so much.

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I suggest you look at this from the link I posted:

"Fiction: Consumers and retailers should be free to use the units they prefer.

Fact: Freedom of choice entails chaos and fraud.

Consistent rules for pricing and measuring are fundamental to honest and fair trade.

A single approved system of units for weighing has been historically a key method to protect the consumer. Uniformity of measures is prescribed in both the Magna Carta and Act of Union between England and Scotland.

If shopkeepers are free to choose their units for pricing goods, price transparency is lost. How can anyone know whether a shop selling bananas at 45p/lb is more expensive than another selling at 92p/kg without using a calculator? Equally, if shopkeepers were able to choose any system with which to measure their goods, you would start seeing bushels, pecks and hogsheads.

The transition from using gallons to litres in filling stations, where price per unit is less because the unit is smaller happened smoothly almost overnight, while the transition from pounds to kilograms, where price per unit is more because the unit is larger, has met with resistance."

There you are then! If everything is in the same units then it's easy to compare prices!
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Message 444 - posted by Wirral Red, Aug 17, 2006

An unbiased source perhaps? I don't see how presenting a website full of views exactly the same as yours furthers your case.

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It uses facts rather than opinions to say why we should go metric.
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Message 445 - posted by EdSomerset, Aug 17, 2006

Oddly enough I've never met any foreigners who have had the same problems as your solitary Frenchman.
Like I said, I've never seen a million pounds. Just because you've never seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist!

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True, but on balance it would seem the majority of people from metric countries don't have a problem with the way we do things here.
I have also come across a Frenchman who didn't speak English, but it would be unreasonable for everybody in Britain to have to be able to speak fluent French in their own country to accommodate the odd person who has translation problems. Of course the the same rules apply for britons visiting France.
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Message 446 - posted by Wirral Red, Aug 17, 2006

Read through this:

www.metric.org.uk/pr...
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Message 447 - posted by EdSomerset, Aug 17, 2006



Like that link said, New Zealand has been totally metric since 1970 but they still use Imperial units in colloquial sayings.

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Canada has been metric for similar period of time and colloquial usage of Imperial sayings is on the wane. NZ has only been metric for little over 30 years or so and so very sayings are still in the language. There are various Medieval sayings that mean nothing nowadays because what is being referred to no longer exists. Imperial measures will go out of the language when there point of reference is lost or has no contemporary meaning.


I suggest you look at this from the link I posted:

"Fiction: Consumers and retailers should be free to use the units they prefer.

Fact: Freedom of choice entails chaos and fraud.

Consistent rules for pricing and measuring are fundamental to honest and fair trade.

A single approved system of units for weighing has been historically a key method to protect the consumer. Uniformity of measures is prescribed in both the Magna Carta and Act of Union between England and Scotland.

If shopkeepers are free to choose their units for pricing goods, price transparency is lost. How can anyone know whether a shop selling bananas at 45p/lb is more expensive than another selling at 92p/kg without using a calculator? Equally, if shopkeepers were able to choose any system with which to measure their goods, you would start seeing bushels, pecks and hogsheads.

The transition from using gallons to litres in filling stations, where price per unit is less because the unit is smaller happened smoothly almost overnight, while the transition from pounds to kilograms, where price per unit is more because the unit is larger, has met with resistance."

There you are then! If everything is in the same units then it's easy to compare prices!

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Sorry, didn't I just answer that exact same statement? I'm sure JOP is quite able to read my posting as well as you.
"Equally, if shopkeepers were able to choose any system with which to measure their goods, you would start seeing bushels, pecks and hogsheads."
That's utterly untrue; the Weights and Measures Acts say that legally shopkeepers were only alowed to use lbs & oz. The idea that weights and measures prior to the introduction of metric were chaotic and fraudulent is nothing but blatant propaganda.
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Message 448 - posted by EdSomerset, Aug 17, 2006

It uses facts rather than opinions to say why we should go metric.

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What, all the stuff about ditching our "imperial legacy" and having personal trouble with translating between countries? Those seem like personal opinions to me. Besides, they are starting from a single opinion; that metric should entirely replace Imperial. Any information given on that Website is likely to be biased in favour of that with information about the potential benefits of Imperial left out.

In the interests of fairness, why don't you provide links to a pro-Imperial website and post it on here.
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Message 449 - posted by Wirral Red, Aug 17, 2006

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Message 450 - posted by Wirral Red, Aug 17, 2006

What, all the stuff about ditching our "imperial legacy" and having personal trouble with translating between countries? Those seem like personal opinions to me.

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Sorry, I should've said AS WELL AS opinions. The facts that I'm referring to are the ones saying that we chose to go metric before joining the EU - it was OUR Government's decision.
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Message 451 - posted by John of Paddington, Aug 17, 2006

WierdEd, If you like Metric so much go where they use and love it, here in England we do not.
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Message 452 - posted by EdSomerset, Aug 17, 2006

I've now read the link you provided, thank you.

The metric system is only coming into Britain as a result of an EU imposition
Metric is foreign, Imperial is British. It is unpatriotic to use metric.
The World’s only superpower uses Imperial. Britain should do the same.
Older Britons cannot learn metric.
The market – not the Government – should decide which units are used.

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I am well aware of the answers to the first two and don't class them as proper objections. Number three isn't even true; the USA uses the US system - as I have stated ad nauseum. It is basically the same as Imperial, only their gallon is based on the wine gallon and they have cups as an addtional measure of volume. Ergo it isn't Imperial, because the system is different and they wouldn't know what you meant if you started talking about it.

I don't consider point 4 to be much of an issue really, as metric is a fairly simple thing to grasp.

Point 5, the Government already DID set the system of measurement by specifying that the Imperial system (a nationally standardised system) had to be used and then saying that goods had to be sold in lbs and oz.
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Message 453 - posted by EdSomerset, Aug 17, 2006

Sorry, I should've said AS WELL AS opinions. The facts that I'm referring to are the ones saying that we chose to go metric before joining the EU - it was OUR Government's decision.

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OK, I agree that the legalisation and adoption of metric has nothing to do with the EU. That's a fact. :)
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Message 454 - posted by EdSomerset, Aug 17, 2006

WierdEd, If you like Metric so much go where they use and love it, here in England we do not.

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I really don't get you JoP. I have explained repeatedly that I use both systems of measurement and as a consequence have been branded a reactionary or a traitor by both sides. That's why I retired from this thread in the first place. I should just leave it to the pair of you to slug it out on here.
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Message 455 - posted by Wirral Red, Aug 18, 2006

Number three isn't even true; the USA uses the US system - as I have stated ad nauseum. It is basically the same as Imperial, only their gallon is based on the wine gallon and they have cups as an addtional measure of volume.

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I think what they meant is it doesn't use metric. Either way, as the site says, that isn't true either because they DO use metric for some things.
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Message 456 - posted by Wirral Red, Aug 18, 2006

Point 5, the Government already DID set the system of measurement by specifying that the Imperial system (a nationally standardised system) had to be used and then saying that goods had to be sold in lbs and oz.

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And in 1965 they set a target of 10 years for British industry to convert to metric. It's now 41 years since then and still we haven't changed over properly!
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Message 457 - posted by John of Paddington, Aug 18, 2006

Sorry EdSom, my last was directed to the wirey bloke. I agree with you, why shoud we, a free people, be forced to change our historic way, just to please a bunch of foreigners? There was cartoon in the Times of a figure with lage ears and in flowered shorts being dragged to the execution post for 'Desertion'. I hope Blair gets a copy. The sooner we get out of the EU the better we can resume out trade with the comonwealth. (Brussels has now banned the import of NZ butter)
WierdEd, If you like Metric so much go where they use and love it, here in England we do not.


I really don't get you JoP. I have explained repeatedly that I use both systems of measurement and as a consequence have been branded a reactionary or a traitor by both sides. That's why I retired from this thread in the first place. I should just leave it to the pair of you to slug it out on here.

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Message 458 - posted by U3775715 - alt id 1, Aug 20, 2006

Has Brussells banned the import of New Zealand butter? Not in Tesco or Waitrose in Buckinghamshire. But you'd be mad to buy anything with so many food miles when there is excellent English butter at rock bottom prices.
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Message 459 - posted by Wirral Red, Aug 21, 2006

Sorry EdSom, my last was directed to the wirey bloke. I agree with you, why shoud we, a free people, be forced to change our historic way, just to please a bunch of foreigners? There was cartoon in the Times of a figure with lage ears and in flowered shorts being dragged to the execution post for 'Desertion'. I hope Blair gets a copy. The sooner we get out of the EU the better we can resume out trade with the comonwealth. (Brussels has now banned the import of NZ butter)
WierdEd, If you like Metric so much go where they use and love it, here in England we do not.
I'm fed up with you being so xenophobic! As I explained, without the EU a lot of expensive projects would never have got started. Birkenhead Park has just undergone a major revamp. Who funded it? Yes, that's right - the EU!

Read this:

"Metric is foreign, Imperial is British. It is unpatriotic to use metric.

To reject something simply because it is 'foreign' is both xenophobic and stupid. To reject metric units because they originate in France is like rejecting motor cars because they were invented in Germany or rejecting air travel because the aeroplane was invented in the United States!

Metric units such as the kilogram have, of course, their origins in late 18 th century France. However, since the Metre Convention of 1875, the development of the metric system has become a truly international effort. Britain has participated in the development of the metric system for over a century. So just as say telephone standards are subject to international agreement through the ITU (International Telecommunication Union) the metric system is subject to international agreement through the Metre Convention. The telephone system is not 'foreign'; the metric system is not either.

Britain signed the Metre Convention in 1884. British scientists have significantly contributed to the development on the modern metric system.

Imperial units, like metric ones, have roots abroad. Although the name "imperial" refers to the British codifying of units in 1824, imperial units have their roots further back in time. Many so-called imperial units are based on Roman units imposed across Europe as part of their Empire. Thus although the word pound is linguistically related to the modern German Pfund or Dutch pond the abbreviation 'lb' comes from the Italian libbra and the abbreviation for ounce 'oz' comes from onza. There are two variations on pounds and ounces in the imperial system: avoirdupois ("goods of weight") comes from the time in the 14 th Century when London merchants adopted a French approach to weighing; while troy measure is based on the system used in the town of Troyes in France. Thus, far from being truly home grown, pounds and ounces have their roots in Italy and France.

Britain's citizens deserve the best set of units. Metric is a better system so it is patriotic to support metrication."

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Message 460 - posted by U2487692, Aug 21, 2006

Who says the British don't like Metric?

Its easy consistent and interchangable everywhere.

You can get ratted down the pub put milk in your tea and work out how far to the end of the motorway without the medieval measures.
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