Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/07/a_swine_on_the_head.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/07/a_swine_on_the_head.html en-gb 30 Mon 31 Aug 2015 07:45:54 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/07/a_swine_on_the_head.html majestic filibuster http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/07/a_swine_on_the_head.html?page=92#comment12 Sorry but they are not direct quotes. You left out some key phrases. Paisley saidthat his party "will not be found wanting" if republicans, in his words, "complete the transition to democracy and the rule of law"he then told cheering supporters that "IRA/Sinn Fein" would never get into a power-sharing government. I see you leave out the IRA bit. see when you change the quote its not what Dr Pasiley said at all.At no point did he say "power sharing with Sinn Fein would be "over our dead bodies"You can't accuse the man of backtracking on something you though he said.Like I have made clear the DUP and Ian Paisleys position has been since 1994 that he would share power when Sinn Fein came up to the mark, to democratic standards. IRA / Sinn Fein has become soley Sinn Fein. If you deny that then you really need to read what Paisley has said, what the shinners have said and done and also some police and imc reports....and then you will realise that paisley has not changed. Thu 23 Jul 2009 16:05:52 GMT+1 traditional_unionist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/07/a_swine_on_the_head.html?page=84#comment11 majesticfilibuster,It seems you are incapable of reading. So concentrate fully when reading the information above which came out of DUP mouths:1997: "There are no circumstances now, or in the future, in which the DUP would engage with Sinn Fein or share power with Sinn Fein." (Ian Paisley) this turned out to be a TOTAL LIE!1998: "The DUP will destroy all of the structures of the Belfast Agreement including a mandatory coalition which allows Sinn Fein into government as of right." (Peter Robinson) yet another LIE!2002: "The real unionists of Ulster know that it is only the DUP which will rid us of the structures which put Sinn Fein into government here." (Edwin Poots) and another one!And here are three crackers from the Big man Paisley:"Come Friday, the world will see what the Protestant people really think of this so-called peace process, which is really a surrender process.""I will never sit down with Gerry Adams . . . he'd sit with anyone. He'd sit down with the devil. In fact, Adams does sit down with the devil.saved the best until last...:"power sharing with Sinn Fein would be "over our dead bodies"Read it carefully now, dont want you getting confused again. And dont even attempt to spin it, because your efforts so far have been rather pathetic. Fact is you cannot spin your way credibly out of these quotes above. They came direct from the DUP and its leadership.Accept the DUP has lied, accept they have misled this nation for decades and then we may get somewhere! Because as the above I quoted proves, this is exactly what they did! Mon 20 Jul 2009 18:58:23 GMT+1 majestic filibuster http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/07/a_swine_on_the_head.html?page=76#comment10 Actually never was used about dublin rule. What I proved was the DUPs willingness to respect Sinn Feins electoral mandate when they had committed to peaceful democratic means.The TUV has acused the DUP of misleading people for doing what they said they would do since 1994. The DUP has said since 1994 that Sinn Fein could be recognised as a legitimate political party when it gave up the amred terrorist group is was allied to.All the times they said they would not work with Sinn Fein IRA and not go into govt with IRA Sinn Fein..but now the IRA has dismantled its structures and stood down its volunteers handed in its weapons. Now that Sinn Fein accept British courts and the British state having a right to be in northern ireland administering justice through the police and courts...it has changed. Not the DUP. This has been the DUP stance since 1994.Now the DUP would not have wanted mandatory coalition but the UUP who had the saem stance in 1994 as the DUP did then and do now, gave in. so we are stcuk with it in the short term. One of the key features of st andrews was th ability to change to a normal coalition.The DUP never lied, never mislead....sounds like you just didnt listen. Mon 20 Jul 2009 16:51:38 GMT+1 traditional_unionist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/07/a_swine_on_the_head.html?page=69#comment9 majesticfilibuster,So what exactly have you proven here?That the DUP didnt lie/mislead a couple of times?That really doesnt say alot about the party does it?Face facts, the DUP lied for decades to its people, and mislead them aswell. marched them up to the top of the hill, left them there and then sneaked away into stormont to share power with the shinners!You give me two quotes which possibly hint at talking to the shinners at some stage (no mention of sharing power). But I can give you many many many more in which the message is clear.....NO and NEVER to talking with (never mind sharing power) with SF/IRA! Mon 20 Jul 2009 11:38:37 GMT+1 majestic filibuster http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/07/a_swine_on_the_head.html?page=61#comment8 Stormont Spy,Of course I agree with you. Gordon Brown has time and again shown bad judgement and a seeming ignorance of the truth of a situation and feelings of the country.But credit where it is due....do not the DUP deserve recognition for the fact that they have tried to do the best by the people in getting a solid financial basis for devolving policing and justice. When you think the other parties where in talks for years leading to the GFA and didn't mention money once!Traditional unionist....perhaps you are too young to remember the DUP position in 1994 and onwards?Here are some quotes from the DUP manifesto 1997. "The process of destroying illegal weapons in Northern Ireland is based upon the recognition that groups that claim to be committed to peace and democracy do not need an arsenal for murder and destruction. Their sincerity is better demonstrated by a tangible gesture such as decommissioning than by empty rhetoric."You will notice that decommissioning is no the be all and end all here. It is very clear that the decommissioning was a strategy to build unionist confidence; that Sinn Fein were for real. The guns themselves could be replaced easily but the symbolic gesture which was against the IRAs own rules would show unionists that they really wanted to move to a peaceful democratic Northern Ireland. The DUP put the change of detail to the electorate and they accepted that public support for police courts and rule of law was better than visible decommissioning. The policy was building confidence. The strategy to achieve that changed, but the policy remains."The DUP fought the Forum Election on the basis of requiring guns to be handed over before substantive talks began."Incase you are unware, your memory having failed you. I did not make this up. The forum election was in 1994. Now is it not clear that the DUP would go into talks after SInn Fein decommissioned? So from 1994 the DUP had a policy of workig with Sinn Fein after they had committed themselves to peaceful democratic means....since 1994 i'll point that out again for you.and finally...i think you'll like this one..."The DUP has nothing to hide. It has faithfully represented the views of traditional unionism. You can trust us to safeguard Ulster's future within the United Kingdom. Not for us any back door deals or secret manoeuvring with the Pan-Nationalist front." Sun 19 Jul 2009 00:01:15 GMT+1 Stormontspy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/07/a_swine_on_the_head.html?page=53#comment7 Madge, You should use your connections to warn the DUP that whenever Gordon Brown brings forwards figures for Policing and Justice in September to be cautious. My money is on Brown trying to do N. Ireland but around £150 million. The reason you ask?Well Gordon Brown has a history of operating like a second hand car dealer. We all know his brilliant salesmanship this is the man who sold gold at the bottom of the market. That is the problem with the Gordon Brown - he has got nothing to sell and he is useless at selling it. Stormontspy Thu 16 Jul 2009 21:25:25 GMT+1 traditional_unionist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/07/a_swine_on_the_head.html?page=46#comment6 "DUP always said since the forum election in 1994 that they would work with Sinn Fein when they committed to peaceful democratic means"What utter drivelStop making things upThe DUP lied, and now you are trying to defend the lies and spin them. Stop it. Your embaressing yourself Thu 16 Jul 2009 19:24:07 GMT+1 majestic filibuster http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/07/a_swine_on_the_head.html?page=38#comment5 I have already dealt with the 1997 quote on another blog.The rest are all true. Only the DUP has a strategy to remove mandatory coalition. The DUP made it clear they would work this type of coalition until it could be removed, after the British govt said it would not replace mandatory coalition. They said only when the Northern Ireland parties could agree a voluntary coalition would it be replaced. The DUP still works towards this aim. Hence the addition of the assembly executive and review committee.At that point in 2004 Jim Allister was a man of integrity. But read his 2004 manifesto, watch the clips of Jim proposing devolution now in 2004 in washington. Something has changed in Jim Allisters stance since then and now. DUP always said since the forum election in 1994 that they would work with Sinn Fein when they committed to peaceful democratic means. So the DUP stance is not new....Jim Allister abandoned his manifesto and his pledge to the people. He is no longer worthy of any such praise.As for policing and justice that is true. still. Or maybe you don't remeber the UUP days when Sinners bragged of the times they were on the run from the police instead of their position now of supporting the police. Wed 15 Jul 2009 16:45:22 GMT+1 Stormontspy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/07/a_swine_on_the_head.html?page=30#comment4 Madge,Back in June before the European Election a copy of some of the quotes which the DUP have foolishly made. Here is the best - 1997: "There are no circumstances now, or in the future, in which the DUP would engage with Sinn Fein or share power with Sinn Fein." (Ian Paisley)1998: "The DUP will destroy all of the structures of the Belfast Agreement including a mandatory coalition which allows Sinn Fein into government as of right." (Peter Robinson)2002: "The real unionists of Ulster know that it is only the DUP which will rid us of the structures which put Sinn Fein into government here." (Edwin Poots)2004: "Jim Allister is a worthy successor for Ian Paisley. Like him, he is a man of utter principle and integrity." (Peter Robinson)2008: "It will be a political lifetime before the conditions exist for the devolution of Policing and Justice." (Nigel Dodds)2009: "The DUP doesn't believe in attacking other unionist parties." (Diane Dodds)When will the DUP ever be honest? On this basis the DUP would be best never to say another word has they are made to look like the party of porkies!!Stormontspy Sun 12 Jul 2009 21:55:29 GMT+1 majestic filibuster http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/07/a_swine_on_the_head.html?page=23#comment3 Stormontspythe only thing this spat shows is how incompetant the UUP are....yet again.In the original agreement they didn't even think of mentioning money. Of all the things the talked about for Northern Ireland, investing money to bring us up to standard with the UK didn't cross their minds.In 2007, when the DUP had negotiated a better deal, just before the election the DUP made it plain that if everyone stood together we could hold out for even more money than the DUP had secured alone in negotiations. IE if all unionists said we have agreed a principle but wont work the detail until you stump up the necessary cash to make it work. WHat did the UUP do? oh yes ...Sir Reg came out and said repeatedly...no matter what the outcome of the elction we will work the institutions, we will take our executive seats. Good one. ALmost think they didnt want a decent budget.Now in 2009 the UUP feels its short of cash for its department. Instead of waiting until negotiations are finished, they come out publicly to try and make the DUP look bad. DUP minister wilson wont give me the necessary money to look after eveyones health! big bad DUP.Well it doesn't wash. No department should ever contract for money it does not have. what a way to try and run the country. If a business worked this way it would go bust. If a director worked this way he would be sacked and probably banned from ever being a director again.This spat only shows how totally useless the UUP are at seeing the big picture....yet again. Sat 11 Jul 2009 23:16:03 GMT+1 secretpcjunkie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/07/a_swine_on_the_head.html?page=15#comment2 These are the people that are taking decisions about or lives and choices.Other MPs voting for the blanket smoking ban were: Democratic Unionist Party Gregory Campbell (Londonderry East) Jeffrey Donaldson (Lagan Valley) Rev William McCrea (South Antrim) The Rev Ian Paisley (Antrim North) Mrs Iris Robinson (Strangford) Peter Robinson (Belfast East) David Simpson (Upper Bann) Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) Independent Dr Richard Taylor (Wyre Forest) Plaid Cymru Adam Price (Carmarthen East & Dinefwr) Hywel Williams (Caernarfon) Social Democratic and Labour Party Mark Durkan (Foyle) Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) Ulster Unionist Party Lady Sylvia Hermon (Down North)The only thing they agree on is they know better than us lesser mortals.It would be laughable if they just thought it, it is a sorry state of affairs when they impose their ideas into our personal lives and choices. Sat 11 Jul 2009 10:55:00 GMT+1 The_Oncoming_Storm http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/07/a_swine_on_the_head.html?page=7#comment1 Agreed, looking at the childish antics of our politicians makes me remember direct rule with something approaching fondness. For all it's faults things got done and ministers didn't spend their time trying to put one over on each other!! Fri 10 Jul 2009 11:07:57 GMT+1 Stormontspy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markdevenport/2009/07/a_swine_on_the_head.html?page=0#comment0 Mark,All this fighting and bickering shows how incompetent this Executive is. This morning on Radio Ulster listening to Sammy Wilson then Michael McGimpsey it was a case of "he said this" and "he said that" and "someone done this" and "someone didn't to that". It was like morning time in the local children's nursery. If this is meant to be our best politicians then we are stuffed. Wed 08 Jul 2009 20:42:51 GMT+1