Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html en-gb 30 Fri 22 Aug 2014 23:08:53 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html I Am Not The Best Paul Scholes Is _Save Our 606_ http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=96#comment32 Gdansk and Krakow would make beautiful setings for a football tournament and having Euro 2012 at Ukraine and Poland would help these countries' economies and bring tourism to the area. Furthermore, having the tournament in the east of europe would broaden some football fans' knowledge of Europe, Mardrid, Paris, Rome Berlin and London arent the only cities where a tournament set. i can say from experience that the polish transport system is far better than england's especially the trams and buses. Sun 05 Oct 2008 09:09:20 GMT+1 North Berwick Hammer http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=93#comment31 For everyone wondering how/why Poland and Ukarine got Euro 2012, here goes:There was an assumption that Italy would get the tournament, they haven't held the Euro's since 1980 and once they threw their hat in the ring for 2012 most other countries who would have considered hosting it didn't bother entering the contest; the ones that did put themselves forward did so expecting to lose to Italy.Then two weeks before the vote the corruption scandal in Italy broke and it became clear nobody was going to vote for them, and we were left with a very poor second choice of Poland/Ukarine. I say very poor as Uefa had made clear they didn't want a split tournament again, and it was obvious Ukraine would have to do a major building programme to get four stadia to the required standard, and travel/transport issues will have to be overcome.I hope Ukarine get ready for the tournament; South Africa are having major problems with transport links at the moment; they have no idea for example how 30,000 fans will get from one end of the country to the other for a game three days later. It will be a shame if 2012 has the same issues. Mon 29 Sep 2008 08:56:12 GMT+1 benitofrito http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=90#comment30 jmichej, maninthestreet, etcUkraine means "edge", or "border": the Ukraine is on the edge of Slavic civilisation, the border of the Russian empire, and so on. Hence the country's old name: "the Ukraine". Modern Ukraine wants its own country and culture, not the edge of someone else's, so they're not "the Ukraine" anymore - simply Ukraine.Try this link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/aug/14/eu.commentanddebate Mon 29 Sep 2008 08:37:09 GMT+1 Ulstershaker http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=87#comment29 It was, to me, a very surprising decision to give the tournament to Poland and Ukraine. I'm sorry to say but neither of these countries appear to have either the finance nor the stadiums in place to host such a tournament yet. I would have said, fine, you can have the competition but we'll give you a little longer, say until, 2020, to put the required infrastructure in place.I am all for giving countries who have not hosted the tournament before a chance at doing so but there has to be a reasonable chance of it happening. having been to both I'm not so sure that they will be ready on time.As for Scotland and Ireland (I'm assuming that it is the Republic of Ireland people are talking about on this thread as Windsor Park, sadly, has no chance of being considered for any major tournament), then tere will only be two grounds in the RoI capable of hosting games and that will be Lansdowne Road and providing they will still allow "foreign" sports to take place there, Croke Park. There are suitable venues in Scotland right enough with Hampden Park, Ibrox, Celtic Park, Murrayfield, Easter Road and Tynecastle and, at a push, Pittodrie all capable of hosting Euro 2012. That would get my vote instead of handing it back to the likes of Spain, Germany, England or Italy again. Sun 28 Sep 2008 23:56:51 GMT+1 Trickiano_Ricaldo http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=84#comment28 ukraine07, "Well for one let me correct you on you typeing error its not THE UKRAINE its just Ukraine next time type proper and stop calling ukraine THE UKRAINE as its no propersecond ukraine and polnad have every right to hold this event and deserve it anyone who doesnt agree musent understand things"Comments like this make me laugh. They are pedantic, yet highly ironic they can't spell themself. For example, "polnad" and "typeing" lol...Anyway.. back on topic, I totally agree with the people who say if it was England then we'd get a right rollocking. If we held the Euros again, I guarantee we'd get silly warnings for things other countries do all the time. England are just not liked on the continent by many. The way Sepp Blatter wants to change the system on how many foreigners play in club team matches, and when Michel Platini criticised the Premiership is surely proof enough that the English are not liked... Sun 28 Sep 2008 22:04:13 GMT+1 trevek http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=81#comment27 spartakboy (21) makes a good point about the definite article in Russian, however didn't much of the Russian aristocracy, and the diplomatic service, use French (which does have the definite article)?In English the use of The Ukraine was more common before independence. Sun 28 Sep 2008 21:09:06 GMT+1 steveramsfan http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=78#comment26 This post has been Removed Sun 28 Sep 2008 19:31:22 GMT+1 U11846789 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=75#comment25 It'll be a lousy tournament. Half filled stadia and jeering local crowds.Awful. Sun 28 Sep 2008 17:59:23 GMT+1 ukraine07 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=72#comment24 having read some of what people have placed i find some things really daft for one saying the stadiums in ukraine and poland are poor is not ture not all geounds are not upto code and the grounds are being re done and beeing made right to host this event. also to the one who said it makes sence that ukraine should be known as the ukraine how is that true at all you dont know what it was like for the people to live under russian rule and haveing terrible unspeakable things done to them for no reason at all. ukraine is free a free nation a proud nation and very proud and honoured to hot this event with poland.in the end it will be a amazing event and be very well done iefa really needs to gorw up and stop moaning at all cost because they can be very annoying lolbut why should the event be held in scotland really why there why not in another country rather than the normal ones because tbh as much as i love football so on i see no harm in ukraine and poland hosting it. but in ukraine is all the idiots who try and ruin things and so on like in this goverment and sporting and so on who are just out for power and money rather than sorting whats best for the country. Sun 28 Sep 2008 17:12:41 GMT+1 Caulky http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=69#comment23 Why can't England be on standby?We have a lot of top Class Stadiums like The Emirates,St Marys,St James Park,Stadium of Light,Eastlands,Stamford Bridge,Old Trafford,Wembley,Riverside,Pride Park,Villa Park, with New Stadiums likely to be built by 2012 from Liverpool,Everton,Portsmouth,Bristol City,Birmingham City,Olympic Stadium,Last time dumps like Elland Road,City Ground, Hillsborough and the Old Wembley hosted games! Sun 28 Sep 2008 14:21:21 GMT+1 maninthestreet2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=66#comment22 This post has been Removed Sun 28 Sep 2008 10:58:49 GMT+1 Lawman67 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=63#comment21 To be honest, I really cannot understand UEFAs logic in letting two very unprepared Nations host the European Championships?Im not sure if they have the required accomodation and transport infrastructure for starters and thats even before we start talking about the Stadia!They have already been warned and it appears that Ukraine are still dragging their heels, maybe its financial, but other countries already have the Stadia of a high standard which also encompass the required safety standard.If UEFA dont have say Scotland and Ireland on standby by now then they should.Scotland has Hampden, Celtic Park, Ibrox and Murrayfield which are all way above the standard of Stadia required and even if Ukraine drop out their is no reason the Scots couldnt come in at the last minute.One thing is absolutely certain, if any major tournament was held in Scotland then every match would be totally sold out, such is the fanatical level of support for football in Scotland.In my humble opinion UEFA should have considered either Spain Italy or Scotland before they went for Poland/Ukraine as I know many who have been to these countries especially Ukraine and some of the stadiums are very very poor. Sat 27 Sep 2008 19:06:26 GMT+1 spartakboy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=60#comment20 jmichej's comment at point 13 is a bit off given that the definite article (the) does not exist in the Russian or Ukrainian languages, so could not have been attributed by Imperialist Russians. I may not be right, but I have always understood the definite article preceding a country's name is there to denote a vast swathe of land a long time ago that probably lacked a state-like structure and would have been used by Colonialists as a description. That's why we used to hear Ukraine, Sudan, Netherlands etc. Ukraine means something like 'the bit around the edge', Netherlands - the low lands, don't ask me what Sudan means though... Sat 27 Sep 2008 15:30:24 GMT+1 jmichej http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=57#comment19 To Maininthestreet2Dunno about Crimea, especially when you consider that one definition of a Republic is a state without a monarch...Political semantics - my brain hurts! Sat 27 Sep 2008 15:11:09 GMT+1 yuchenko http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=54#comment18 Ukraine is more than capable of hosting 2012. The city of Dnepropetrovsk has built a $40 million stadium, similar to Borussia's in Germany (visit fcdnipro.ua). Platini should be more concerned with corruption from within Uefa Sat 27 Sep 2008 11:37:39 GMT+1 fakz_89 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=51#comment17 I really am bemused by the comments about Poland and the Ukraine, (my rant is defending Poland simply because I don't know enough about Ukraine to defend it sufficiently), being Polish I regularly visit Warsaw and other parts of the country. Although there aren't motorways, the roads aren't that bad, plus in the Cities (where all the matches will be held) the public transport system is in some cases far better than that in areas of the UK, especially the tram service. Whoever mentioned flea biten hotels, joking aside clearly needs to take a holiday there, they are not that bad! As for the question of building stadiums in time, most Polish workers start as 6am and work a 10-12hr day as opposed to the 9 to 5 culture in the UK. An example is to look at the polish workers in the UK any intelligent person will admit how hard they work compared to others. A patriot though I am I think Poland deserves a little more respect then the comments here have given it. Maybe the Euro's aren't in the beautiful Alps of Switzerland, or in the hot Medittereanean country's, or in any other of the "tradditional European countries" remember there are 16 teams in the Euro's and any of those country's deserve to stage it. Finally for the cultural people among you I encourage you to Visit Krakow in the south of Poland, maybe just maybe you will be suprised. Sat 27 Sep 2008 10:56:22 GMT+1 maninthestreet2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=48#comment16 Whilst one may not say 'The Scotland' one would say 'The Netherlands'. Unless, of course, one refers to it as Holland - which isn't even a country and a collective name for two provinces of the Netherlands.I'm not saying Ukraine07 is wrong - but the rationale that people are using to explain why seems to have its exceptions.Also, there are still many remnants of the SSR structure evident within the countries formed on its dissolution. Recent problems in Georgia give testimony to that.I find the suggestion that Ukraine would like to forget the SSR connotations but, to all intents and purposes, still operates along the same lines, ironically amusing :-))) Sat 27 Sep 2008 09:41:41 GMT+1 EuroPaddy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=45#comment15 subterranean,You're missing my point, or you can't read, or both. I know where Ukraine is, and I know where Siberia is. I was merely indicating that just as I make a USSR connection to Siberia, I do to Ukraine also. It was after all (and I believe still is) home to the Black Sea fleet, and therefore got several mentions in Cold War novels and movies. Sat 27 Sep 2008 08:58:12 GMT+1 ConsettKebab http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=42#comment14 Ukraine07 is right. You wouldn't say 'The Scotland' for example.Michel Platini - good guy. Sat 27 Sep 2008 08:23:35 GMT+1 maninthestreet2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=39#comment13 So it would be 'the Ukraine' if it were a collective. OK, so where does that put the Republic of Crimea - given to the Ukraine, as you say it was then, as a "present" from the imperial Russians?Sounds to me as though 'the Ukraine' is just about right then;-)) Sat 27 Sep 2008 08:05:45 GMT+1 jmichej http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=36#comment12 To expand upon ukraine07's point. For example, if you say 'the USA' and 'the UK' that is correct, but if you say 'the Uruguay' or 'the England' that is not.'The USA/UK' are collective terms, whereas Uruguay, England and Ukraine are not, they are single countries.The imperial Russians decided to always refer to Ukraine as 'the Ukraine', to emphasise how it was part of the Russian empire, part of a collective.That's why it still irritates Ukrainians to hear and see these grammatical references to when they were not independent. Sat 27 Sep 2008 07:22:13 GMT+1 ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=33#comment11 Scotland and Ireland would have always been more than ready, wouldnt need to go through a pointless meeting to determine that they arent ready (but lets pretend they are to save face, eh Michel). Plantini is never going to get anything right. If the Celtic nations arent at least on standby after this farce then our bunch of islands has no chance of ever hosting anything ever again (as long as Platini and Blatter make the decisions anyway). Anyway Michel, int it time you had a pop at a random manager in the Premiership for absolutely no reason. Fri 26 Sep 2008 23:03:49 GMT+1 Arctic http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=30#comment10 If Ukraine can host D.Kiev vs Arsenal, if Poland can handle a home qualifier against England, then the odds are Greece vs Switzerland is not going to break their backs.Seems to me I remember watching both games on TV (one being well before there was even a hint of Poland hosting a tournament) and not a single pass or shot was missed by the cameras.The fans didn't seem to have much bother getting in on time either.The idea that a country that hosts WC qualifiers and CL matches as well as their own domestic leagues, suddenly is unable to cope with a few football matches is absurd.And we're not even talking about stadiums here, we're talking about the fluff that surrounds them.No hosting Moldovia vs San Marino is not going to stretch a city with bad roads or a small airport. No hosting Scotland vs Bosnia is not going to be struggle for city that can host D.Kiev vs Arsenal.The stadiums are fine, the communications are fine, the electricity appears to work and for 99% of fans that's all that matters.Flea-bitten hotels and crappy roads are not what concerns the average fan. They are used to that living in places like Bradford and Salisbury. And I don't know about you, but the one and only time I went to a World Cup finals, I didn't really plan on spending my time doing lots of driving. I went to watch football matches, and they do those every week already.If the TV cameras work, the flood lights are lit, the seats are filled and the grass is green, game on. Only the pampered cares about the rest, and most of them are sitting at home anyway. Fri 26 Sep 2008 20:46:30 GMT+1 stopthepress http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=27#comment9 SPORT, Mihir, SPORT.Not money. Not politics. SPORT. Fri 26 Sep 2008 20:06:11 GMT+1 Vox Populi http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=24#comment8 EuroPaddy, comment no.4, what is all that about? Ukraine is nowhere near Siberia, its on the coast of the Black Sea and while it was once part of the Soviet Union, Ukrainians are a proud independent people in their own right who do not bow down to the whims of Moscow. Both countries could do with the lift, finance and prestige that a European Championships will bring them. It will be nice to see top players and a top competition out there in Poland and Ukraine, in beautiful cities like Gdansk, Kiev, and Dnipropetrovsk, rather than in the usual venues of Paris, Madrid, London, Munich, Berlin, etc. Fri 26 Sep 2008 18:59:50 GMT+1 EuroPaddy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=21#comment7 JayRed, I know it's friday night, but have you been on the pop already? If it was any country in the UK, by which I mean industrialised developed countries, then this debate would never be considered (please don't let me down London 2012...) Fri 26 Sep 2008 18:49:38 GMT+1 ukraine07 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=18#comment6 Well for one let me correct you on you typeing error its not THE UKRAINE its just Ukraine next time type proper and stop calling ukraine THE UKRAINE as its no propersecond ukraine and polnad have every right to hold this event and deserve it anyone who doesnt agree musent understand things Fri 26 Sep 2008 18:37:32 GMT+1 JayRed - The Babes' Remembered Forever and a day! http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=15#comment5 Oh I get it now. If your not England you get a telling off but if you are England then you get every insult under the sun from the president of UEFA.He attacks our top national league and the coaches operating in that league (aka Arsene Wenger).Had we been co-hosting the Euro '12 with either Wales or lets say Scotland, and any plans that threaten the tournament then we'd have got more of a telling off from Fri 26 Sep 2008 18:16:58 GMT+1 surrey_casual http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=12#comment4 bluenose, you are wrong, i think.under fifa rules i am 99% positive it goes back to the country that previously held the last championship, so it would be austria, switzerland.correct me if i am wrong tho! Fri 26 Sep 2008 17:47:26 GMT+1 EuroPaddy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=9#comment3 I hope I'm not off the mark here, but don't you think it was an iffy decision to award the event to those countries in the first place? OK, Poland was always a safer bet than Ukraine, and it's obvious that the Poles will better reap the rewards of the (significant) investment in that countrys infrastructure, particularly in terms of tourism etc. post games, but Ukraine's a different beast. Infrastructurally (does such a word exist?), and from a marketing point of view, Ukraine will always be playing catch-up.I always associate Poland with a once important country, devastated by the Nazis and afterwards by the Soviets. People who have constantly struggled to be 'on our side'. Even their recent history suggests they're our friends - I'm thinking Lech Walesa now. But as I said, I think of Ukraine differently - a country about which I know absolutely nothing, but yet I still (inaccurately) think of it in terms of Siberia and the cold war. So certainly in terms of legacy, Ukraine will struggle too. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in thinking that way.But I guess that way of thinking is akin to closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. As I mentioned in another blog, let's hope they do an Athens and get their act together on time - it's a nice part of the world to visit... Fri 26 Sep 2008 17:21:41 GMT+1 jimbobuk67 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=6#comment2 Scotland and ireland were on standby with a joint venture but feeling is that it was more likely to head to spain or the netherlands... Fri 26 Sep 2008 17:15:55 GMT+1 Kole http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=3#comment1 i would like to know the countries on standby? Fri 26 Sep 2008 16:44:39 GMT+1 Jeremy Orbell http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/09/poland_and_ukraine_escape_with.html?page=0#comment0 If Ukraine can't make it could Germany not step in by offering Berlin and Leipzig as alternative venues? They're both close to the Polish border and will have been modified for the recent 2006 World Cup.A bit dodgy politically but maybe Poland could host the majority of games and Germany take the slack.You could even still allow Ukraine to be a co-host but with only a couple of stadiums. The question then becomes whether to allow Germany in as a full host or whether they'd just act as a stager of matches. Fri 26 Sep 2008 16:22:07 GMT+1