Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml en-gb 30 Sat 12 Jul 2014 07:07:36 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml machinewarrior2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=98#comment75 Thanks moderators :-) Wed 21 Jan 2009 22:54:19 GMT+1 Sid http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=97#comment74 "Israel admits troops may have used phosphorus shells in Gaza" says the BBC Wed 21 Jan 2009 13:39:47 GMT+1 machinewarrior2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=96#comment73 Please can you put my post back it gives the address of the attorney general's office so that people can write to her. Wed 21 Jan 2009 11:58:19 GMT+1 machinewarrior2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=94#comment72 This makes interesting reading. Haringey Independent. Sentencing Judge Shaun Lyons said he had to balance the severity of the attack while operating within legal guidelines. Judge Lyons said: “The life of this girl changed irretrievably on January 9 last year. “The most severe injuries followed the attack with caustic soda. She has been left with severe post-traumatic stress disorder and scarring to 50 per cent of her body. It is doubtful what form her life will take and whether she will ever be able to operate fully as a young woman.” Kathryn Stone, from disability rights charity VOICE UK, said: 'These sentences don't come close to reflecting the brutality and horror of this attack.' Richard Curen, chief executive of Respond, said: 'These sentences are another injury and I fear it will take even longer for her to recover.' Oh yes, we have a clear message about where the woman and girls of this country stand in relation to men's right to rape, a very, very clear message.Attorney General Baroness Scotland's office has requested the papers in the case to consider whether the sentences should be referred to the Court of Appeal for review. Here below is her address, telephone contact, fax number, etc. The attorney generals can be contacted here http://www.attorneygeneral.gov.uk/contacts.htmThis you CAN do something about. I've already written to express my concerns as to what this kind of messages, this kind of sentencing sends to young men. It was clearly worth the fun they had out of this girl and the rest of our society's young girls, where does this leave them? Which one will be their next victim when these rapists come out of prison? Life sentences can be given for rape alone without the caustic soda, so what was holding back the judge? Is there a legal mind out there who can explain this to us? Wed 21 Jan 2009 01:37:28 GMT+1 Chris Ghoti http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=93#comment71 This post has been Removed Wed 21 Jan 2009 00:41:06 GMT+1 machinewarrior2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=92#comment70 No, I'm wrong. There it is above in dublicate. Thank you. So how about action ? Wed 21 Jan 2009 00:36:45 GMT+1 machinewarrior2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=90#comment69 OOps there seems to be a block put on this rape and caustic acid case! Tue 20 Jan 2009 23:31:35 GMT+1 machinewarrior2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=89#comment68 @50. At 11:47am on 20 Jan 2009, David_McNickle wrote: mw2 32, I agreeThank you David.@52. At 11:54am on 20 Jan 2009, Chris_Ghoti wrote: Thank you for offering support. What a shame your post #38 was removed I didn't get to see it. You write @52 "My personal view is that dousing a human being with caustic soda should be treated as attempted murder, since it is quite possible that it might cause death."She did very nearly die, whoever the judge was in this case has shown himself to be irresponsible, in fact cruelly indifferent to the attack. There has been a protest from those in Mental Heath. You also write, "Strange how deliberately causing appalling burn-damage to innocent humans is in the news this week, isn't it. But the Tottenham gang were not conscripts and only following orders: they did it of their own accords. That makes them worse, I feel."These guys did it for FUN and they were still laughing in the court about it according to a bbc radio report. Most people, find it far more exciting to be discussing the horrors of Gaza which indeed I have done on another site, but who are we to have any opinion at all when we care so little for our own. If we can't love and care for and act in defence of those who live with us, we do indeed risk sounding like hypocrites when we talk with passion about those further away in situations we can do very little about except complain. Isn't there saying about putting your own house in order? Here we could act, we could make a difference to the outcome. We could make an audible protest in defence of one little girl who, lives amongst us. We have the power here to exercise our moral concerns, about her treatment and the lack of justice for her. The case is with us under our very noses. Pontificating over Gaza is undoubtedly cathartic, but we are impotent, our word are all puff and pomp. So why not actually DO something about this appalling case, we can you know, we can. Tue 20 Jan 2009 23:30:15 GMT+1 machinewarrior2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=88#comment67 @50. At 11:47am on 20 Jan 2009, David_McNickle wrote: mw2 32, I agreeThank you David.@52. At 11:54am on 20 Jan 2009, Chris_Ghoti wrote: Thank you for offering support. What a shame your post #38 was removed I didn't get to see it. You write @52 "My personal view is that dousing a human being with caustic soda should be treated as attempted murder, since it is quite possible that it might cause death."She did very nearly die, whoever the judge was in this case has shown himself to be irresponsible, in fact cruelly indifferent to the attack. There has been a protest from those in Mental Heath. You also write, "Strange how deliberately causing appalling burn-damage to innocent humans is in the news this week, isn't it. But the Tottenham gang were not conscripts and only following orders: they did it of their own accords. That makes them worse, I feel."These guys did it for FUN and they were still laughing in the court about it according to a bbc radio report. Most people, find it far more exciting to be discussing the horrors of Gaza which indeed I have done on another site, but who are we to have any opinion at all when we care so little for our own. If we can't love and care for and act in defence of those who live with us, we do indeed risk sounding like hypocrites when we talk with passion about those further away in situations we can do very little about except complain. Isn't there saying about putting your own house in order? Here we could act, we could make a difference to the outcome. We could make an audible protest in defence of one little girl who, lives amongst us. We have the power here to exercise our moral concerns, about her treatment and the lack of justice for her. The case is with us under our very noses. Pontificating over Gaza is undoubtedly cathartic, but we are impotent, our word are all puff and pomp. So why not actually DO something about this appalling case, we can you know, we can. Tue 20 Jan 2009 23:27:28 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=86#comment66 C_G 65, It's just that the discussion on this blog seems to be very onesided (other than Bing). As I said, both sides are bonkers. Tue 20 Jan 2009 17:22:22 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=85#comment65 C_G 63, See this:http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1055561.htmlBut I believe I read that there are several types of phosphorus rockets. Tue 20 Jan 2009 17:18:10 GMT+1 Chris Ghoti http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=84#comment64 DMcN @ 62, thank you for the link: I read"Israeli security officials said that Palestinians were using phosphorus weapons of their own and that a phosphorus bomb exploded in the western Negev region of Israel yesterday. It was among 14 rockets fired from Gaza into Israel. No one was injured in the attacks."and note that they are not producing the Hamas phosphorus bomb nor parts thereof to demonstrate this, nor claiming that anyone was injured by it or by any of the 14 rockets they assert Hamas fired. I make no doubt whatever that were there proof in the form of injury they'd have shown it.In any case, what has that to do with it? That one person is wrong does not make another person right. Just that. This isn't a black/white, good/bad, left/right matter, nor one of 'anyone who isn't with us is against us'. It is a case of one thing being wrong *no matter what other things may be wrong*. It's as clear as 'a person is wrong to use torture even if other people have used torture or use torture now or may use torture in the future'. Tue 20 Jan 2009 17:14:49 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=82#comment63 C_G 63, So what about the Israeli claims that Palestine is using phosphorus rockets? Tue 20 Jan 2009 17:11:24 GMT+1 Chris Ghoti http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=81#comment62 DMcN@ 60, they do deny it, and that is not surprising given the illegality of firing it into any civilian area, and the great difficulty of finding any part of very crowded Gaza that is *not* likely to have civilians in it.Unfortunately the UN appears to be able to show evidence that there are people (including children) who have most certainly suffered from being hit by white phosphorus in Gaza during the past few days, and this makes it difficult to be sure that the Israeli denials are being entirely accurate. It seems unlikely that it was fired by Hamas, who were not as far as anyone can tell either using white phosphorus or firing anything into Gaza. That leaves it as being either fired by some other party than the two in conflict there (and there are no claims that anyone else was firing anything into Gaza), or by the Israelis, who both use white phosphorus and were firing into Gaza.Speaking of 'fortunate': VH @ 58, I doubt that Hamas have the delivery systems needed to fire rockets into London; Iraq certainly didn't, as we now know, and I don't think there is any reason to suppose Hamas is any better armed than Iraq was under Saddam Hussein. Tue 20 Jan 2009 16:58:55 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=80#comment61 EI Funny, nobody here has mentioned that the Israelis said that Palestine is using phosphorus weapons. It is mentioned in this article.http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5519433.ece Tue 20 Jan 2009 16:49:02 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=78#comment60 EI 56, It seems to me I've heard that song before... Tue 20 Jan 2009 16:23:00 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=77#comment59 Due to a lack of common sense, my post 53 has been removed, so I will reword it.Until recently, the Israelis have denied claims that they are using white phosphorus. Have they since said otherwise or are people here just making it up? Tue 20 Jan 2009 16:16:17 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=76#comment58 Is this entire thread in bold, I wonder? Tue 20 Jan 2009 15:39:54 GMT+1 vainly_here http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=75#comment57 I think it's extremely "Fortunate" that Israel is better armed. Otherwise Hamas would probably be firing rockets into London by now. But first they have to punish (death or torture) all those Fatah people in Gaza whom they are accusing of collaborating with Israel. Tue 20 Jan 2009 15:34:18 GMT+1 bing1972 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=73#comment56 Doh!!!!!!!!! Tue 20 Jan 2009 12:34:58 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=72#comment55 Bing, "They are going to re-arm themselves with the intention of wipeing [sic] Israel off the map."And Israel has already ensured her armories will be replenished:""We know that the Wehr Elbe, a German-owned cargo ship left the USA on 20 December 2008 with a large consignment – 989 containers - of high explosives and other munitions destined for Israel," said Malcolm Smart, Director of the Middle East and North Africa Programme."Hired and now legally controlled by the US Military Sealift Command, it was heading for the Israeli port of Ashdod and was due to transit via Greece, though its latest reported position indicates that the shipment's route may have changed."Tenders for two other arms shipments totalling 325 containers of US munitions were approved by the Pentagon on 31 December, four days after the start of Israel's current attacks on targets in Gaza.These two consignments were due to be shipped to Ashdod from Askatos in Greece, but they have now been cancelled, according to information provided to Amnesty International by the US Military Sealift Command.Tender documents show that these shipments contain white phosphorus, known for its potential to cause severe burns and an indiscriminate weapon when used as an airburst in densely-populated civilian areas as now alleged in Gaza.The US Department of Defence says it is now looking at other means to deliver the munitions to a US stockpile in Israel. A US-Israel agreement has allowed US munitions stockpiled in Israel to be transferred to the Israeli Defence Force in "an emergency".CiceroSalaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Peace Tue 20 Jan 2009 12:23:35 GMT+1 bing1972 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=71#comment54 It was reported this morning, once again, that Hamas has claimed victory. They are going to re-arm themselves with the intention of wipeing Israel off the map.Yes, I agree with the close knit community on here Hamas IS acting in a responsible manner. Doh! (Homer Simpson's response to over intelligent stimulus) Tue 20 Jan 2009 12:16:45 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=69#comment53 "unfortunately, Israel is better armed and has bigger armed forces.""unfortunately" is just a wee bit mild. Try tragically or Diabolically, and financed by your (and my) tax dollars - schade!The idea that European-conducted abuse entitles the Zionists to forcibly displace, dispossess and oppress a people who had nothing to do with the Holocaust is one of the most mistaken ideas of the Twentieth Century. Many Jews have recognised this, and the recent barbaric behaviour of the Israelis has been a recruiting agent for the ranks of concerned Jews, Milliband's mother included.I note with no joy the cynical withdrawal, timed to avoid further embarrassing our new President. The timing has been almost impeccable. Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Peace Tue 20 Jan 2009 12:07:38 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=68#comment52 This post has been Removed Tue 20 Jan 2009 11:56:01 GMT+1 Chris Ghoti http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=67#comment51 machinewarrior2, in case you missed it while it was up, the post they moderated (#38) was a support of you. They seem to have deemed that it encouraged breach of the law, or something. They were probably right, at that.My personal view is that dousing a human being with caustic soda should be treated as attempted murder, since it is quite possible that it might cause death.Strange how deliberately causing appalling burn-damage to innocent humans is in the news this week, isn't it. But the Tottenham gang were not conscripts and only following orders: they did it of their own accords. That makes them worse, I feel. Tue 20 Jan 2009 11:54:39 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=65#comment50 Fifi 42, It is only unequal because, unfortunately, Israel is better armed and has bigger armed forces. Don't fire rockets at someone who is likely to fire back with greater power. Would you feel better is Hamas was better armed and larger? Did you complain about what Russia did in Georgia? Tue 20 Jan 2009 11:52:52 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=64#comment49 mw2 32, I agree. Tue 20 Jan 2009 11:47:19 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=63#comment48 QL 25, I don't have to explain anything to anybody. Especially somebody who won't use thier real name here. Tue 20 Jan 2009 11:43:21 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=61#comment47 EI 22, Hadn't thought that much about it. Both sides are full of nutters. Tue 20 Jan 2009 11:41:31 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=60#comment46 EdI: Yes, I was listening to a report about that the other day. I cannot imagine how anyone could consider such a weapon to be justifiable in any circumstances, let alone in a densely populated area like Gaza. It beggars belief.But then there have been many things associated with this episolde that I find not only incredible but deeply distressing. The fallout from all this is likely to go on for a very long time. Tue 20 Jan 2009 11:28:53 GMT+1 bing1972 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=59#comment45 This post has been Removed Tue 20 Jan 2009 06:52:12 GMT+1 machinewarrior2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=57#comment44 Who was the judge Jonnie who issued this slap on the knuckles to these guys for their 'boys will be boys' behaviour with what he clearly thought was a 'not worth bothering about retard'. I need his name cos I want to, I neeeeed to, write to him. I can't find a reference to this case anywhere. I've tried all the on line newspapers and now it's the 20th it's not in any papers at all. I'm clearly not very good at research, any tips from anyone please?I can offer a free smily just like this :-) to anyone who can find the name of the judge. Now come on, you can't let an offer like that go by now can you? Can you? Really! There is simply no gratitude these days. [sigh] Tue 20 Jan 2009 01:24:16 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=56#comment43 Chris and Fifi,I'm so angry it takes real effort not to throw a brick at the TV!"However, white phosphorus has a secondary effect. While much less efficient than ordinary fragmentation effects in causing casualties, white phosphorus burns quite fiercely and can set cloth, fuel, ammunition and other combustibles on fire. It also can function as an anti-personnel weapon compounds capable of causing serious burns or death.[2] The agent is used in bombs, artillery, and mortars, short-range missiles which burst into burning flakes of phosphorus upon impact." (Wiki)These will burn down into flesh right to the bone, and cannot be extinguished with water (which only adds to the burning)...WP was fired at UN schools. Where were the kids supposed to run to?GRRRRRRR! Tue 20 Jan 2009 01:12:43 GMT+1 jonnie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=55#comment42 machinewarrior2Ironically, I have spent half an hour telling my partner about the injustice served out on the Tottenham gang.Appauling! For what it's worth I happened to splash my arm with caustic soda whilst cleaning a fat frier recently and I still bare the scar. Notwithstanding all the other things the poor girl had to endure.----Re the Glassbox - not sure about Nils doing a Moneybox feature?It is PM at the end of the day! - I really don't think a Drivetime slot should be a Q&A for other slots that Radio 4 has? As I have been told by noteworthy Editors in the past - it's always better to come up with something new, than copy something?Perhaps a now and again feature then? Tue 20 Jan 2009 00:39:40 GMT+1 Fifi http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=53#comment41 I'm with you Chris. The attrition rate is evidence enough of this unequal conflict. Tue 20 Jan 2009 00:35:22 GMT+1 Chris Ghoti http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=52#comment40 As a matter of interest, would anybody here feel that firing white phosphorus into areas full of civilians could be well-described as 'life-affirming'? Leave aside its being illegal...I also find myself wondering who has made martyrs out of children who were hit by this filthy substance -- those who failed to find somewhere for them to run to as areas were razed, or those who fired it at them.(Anyone who wants to assert that it is only fired upwards to provide illumination of an area -- I would draw your attention to the law of gravity, which asserts that what goes up is liable to come down.) Tue 20 Jan 2009 00:18:44 GMT+1 U13772369 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=51#comment39 These banks, RBS, LLoyds-TSB, HSBC, Barclays etc are all bust, broke, boracic.That's why, for example, RBS posted the losses it did, today.Peston says 'Hey, these banks are already 'nationalised''False.The anti socialist Maurice Peston seems to have an anti - socialist son.'Cos the banks are waiting for Brown and co. to give them so much money they will eventually be able to start business as usual again.........so much of PUBLIC money.....and 'business as usual' would mean the 'usual' super profits, salaries and bonuses.But if the banks WERE in PUBLIC OWNERSHIP (and NOW is the time to do THAT!!!) that surplus would be the public's. To perpetuity. To use as it sees fit. On schools, African development, green energy, whatever.But without PUBLIC OWNERSHIP by Brown and Darling NOW, the old gravy train for the few will eventually return.I think even Peter Mandelson (Herbert Morrison's grandson), knows, in his heart of hearts, what this Labour government, New and Old in intergenrational unity, should do.TAKE the BANKS INTO PUBLIC OWNERSHIP NOW! Mon 19 Jan 2009 23:43:51 GMT+1 U13772369 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=50#comment38 9As for posters here who fight socialism, don't forget [Personal details removed by Moderator] is some sort of Lib Dem.You can read the full no political hope position by GooHooing or Yahgling [Personal details removed by Moderator].There you will find the whole'We know what's wrong - capitalismBut we oppose the solution - socialism'contradictory Lib Dem story.Which, give or take the odd change of name, for no good reason whatsoever, in my lifetime, started withJo,then Jeremy,then little Davidthen Paddythen Charlesthen Mingnow CleggAll were earnest and decent in their time. Jo was a toff, through and through. Jeremy found a new way of covering up politically inconvenient relationships, little David was small but oh my, Paddy lived on to become a dictator in the Balkans, Charles was a wee dram, Ming found hurdles he couldn't.....well, hurdle, and Clegg can't make up his mind whether the party believes that each should receive according to their 'needs' or their 'ability'For some reason they were all hung up on the need for profit at any price (see the **** bit in 9).....and as the Grimmond, Dame Shirley Williams etc strand in their support shows...............................their attitude to the labour market is that the first shall always be first and that the last shall always be last........................that a liberal with good heart never has to do a proper job.When the anti-war posturing ended the party began to appear in its true colours - stocked out with liberals, white, successful, rich and idle, to the fifth generation.The right class background guarantees a cushy life according to liberal practice. That's why the party lost so much support among Islamic socialists, here.'Cos socialism is about INTERGENERATIONAL equality - in income, wealth and WORK.White liberals in America, here, in Africa, all think pontificating about injustice is a job which excuses them from proper work. Liberals may even say 'We can only hope Obama will change all that.'Socialists WILL change all that. Mon 19 Jan 2009 23:03:07 GMT+1 Chris Ghoti http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=48#comment37 This post has been Removed Mon 19 Jan 2009 22:59:48 GMT+1 mittfh http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=47#comment36 In the unlikely event of anyone having persevered long enough to get to this point in the thread, well done! :)Just before I get started, I hope your anti-virus software is up to date...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7832652.stmAnd now, as promised earlier, the lighter side of the news:For a start, a chap who changed his name from Joseph to Benedict will be launching his very own YouTube channel on Friday - expect plenty of Latin...http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/19/vatican_youtube/New phone features "baffle" users. In a nutshell, a survey has found people are frustrated at the time it takes to set up and use a new mobile phone.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7833944.stmOops - Pop star Katie Perry accidentally received an additional award at France's main music awards ceremony.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7835889.stmFancy changing job? How about "caretaker" of an island on Australia's Great Barrier Reef? Feed the fish, deliver the mail, and prepare blogs, photos and video updates of your experinces. Six month contract, starting in July.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7823812.stmIf you're lucky enough to get the job, whilst you're lying back and relaxing, you might also be helping to prevent Dementia - apparently staying calm can reduce your chances of developing the condition by 50%http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7833707.stmBBC Correspondents have seen some strange things over the years - but surely this tops the lot...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7837920.stmA previously unknown bit of Mozambique has now been explored by a Wrexham based scientist - with the help of his parents - and hundreds of new species have been identified.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7837049.stmYou're never too old to volunteer - meet a 97 year old WRVS volunteer - who has just passed her Basic Food Hygeine course with flying colours!http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7837897.stm Mon 19 Jan 2009 22:49:56 GMT+1 machinewarrior2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=46#comment35 Thank you fifi. :-) Anyone got the name of the judge in this case? Bring back hanging judges. From your old, old, old, friend machine arrior2 Mon 19 Jan 2009 22:11:27 GMT+1 Fifi http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=44#comment34 I'll stick up for you machinewarrior2."He or she is not a newbie!!!!!!!"There now, there there. You're among friends here. Just let it all out and duck when there's trolls about.;o) Mon 19 Jan 2009 21:53:47 GMT+1 machinewarrior2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=43#comment33 Ed Iglehart tell them I'm not new there's a good chap. Mon 19 Jan 2009 20:39:30 GMT+1 machinewarrior2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=42#comment32 Where's my comment?All new members are pre-moderated initially, which means that there will be a short delay between when you post your comment and when it appears while one of our moderators checks it. I'm not new I have told you dozens of times!!!!!! DOH! Mon 19 Jan 2009 20:37:36 GMT+1 machinewarrior2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=40#comment31 I don't know if this is the right place for this but I've been left stunned by the pathetic sentencing of those men who gang raped a girl who suffers from learning difficulties and covered her with caustic cleaning fluid to disguise any DNA evidence. This has left her with severe burns leaving scaring and damage to her nerve endings so that now she is disfigured as well as traumatised by the rape. Apparently she nearly died from this acid attack. The men and their friends laughed and giggle throughout the court hearing. These men got 6 and 9 years and could be out within 2 to 3yrs. Who is the judge? How can I complain to the justice system for this appallingly lenient sentence? How much respect do we have for females in our society and how seriously do we regard rape? I think a petition should be got up for this disgraceful response by the judge to this crime. What is his name does anyone know? Mon 19 Jan 2009 20:36:20 GMT+1 kikidread http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=39#comment30 30. At 8:23pm on 19 Jan 2009, Chris_Ghoti wrote:kikidread @ 28, gosh, how do you know that? Are you one of the PM team, or have you just got the Glass Box at Broadcasting House bugged?+sorry I was making a wild ass guessI did'nt read or understand or cut and paste the following either ..This virtual glass box is where you're encouraged to take part in the same spirit. The editor of the day reads your comments and may well add her/his own. Mon 19 Jan 2009 20:32:40 GMT+1 Chris Ghoti http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=38#comment29 kikidread @ 28, gosh, how do you know that? Are you one of the PM team, or have you just got the Glass Box at Broadcasting House bugged? Mon 19 Jan 2009 20:23:28 GMT+1 bing1972 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=36#comment28 Re my post 26Refers to Mugabe's wife hitting journalist. Mon 19 Jan 2009 20:19:34 GMT+1 kikidread http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=35#comment27 We try to be honest with each other, but not hurtful, as we talk about what worked and what didn't...what met our expectations and what fell short.+No you don't Mon 19 Jan 2009 20:14:40 GMT+1 kikidread http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=34#comment26 This is the Glass Box the PM team meets in at 18.00 every weeknight to discuss the content of the programme. Mon 19 Jan 2009 20:13:41 GMT+1 bing1972 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=32#comment25 Re Mugabe handbag story.How sad the BBC isn't up in arms on a daily basis over the terrible, shocking suffering of people unfortunate enough to live under Mugabe's regime. I suppose the handbag story will be of some consolation to them in their suffering. Thank you BBC for bringing that cutting edge investigative piece of journalism to our attention.What a contrast to the coverage we've seen over the last 3 weeks. Mon 19 Jan 2009 19:27:59 GMT+1 U12196018 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=31#comment24 DMcN (21) - You'll have to explain that one. Mon 19 Jan 2009 19:22:57 GMT+1 bing1972 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=30#comment23 David 5You've certainly got a point. Can you imagine the slaughter the self proclaimed victors (Hamas) would have carried out for the cameras. How do you have the gall to claim victory when you've overseen all that death and destruction? Of course if they'd have attacked Israel away from civilian areas most those deaths and injuries could have been avoided.The propaganda continues through the media in this country. Yesterday I read that Doctors in Egypt are treating large numbers of Gaza youngsters with bulletts in the brain. They accuse Israeli soldiers of these atrocities. We know that Israeli soldiers faced booby trapping, suicide bombing extremists (Hamas) embedded underground as well as within a warren of buildings in what is said to be one of the most densely populated areas on earth and what did they do, apparentley, they sought out children to shoot in the head. I'm sorry but that is propaganda gone to far. However, Hamas and their 'brothers' in arms live not in a life affirming culture but in a martydom culture. They are known to teach their children the culture of martydom, they are known to have used children as suicide bombers and they are known not to have any respect for human life. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work that one out. Mon 19 Jan 2009 19:22:10 GMT+1 H http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=28#comment22 With bank shares so low, is it not possible for HM Governmentto go into the market and buy a major controlling share in two banks, RBS and Lloyds/Halifax?Why? To clean them of toxic assets, if any, and to set them up as State banksthat will readily grant to existing going-concern businesses immediate creditrollover, for up to, say, twelve months.Yes, I know there are both UK and EC competition regulations; they are there, but they have to be temporarily overridden. All other banks in the UK market-place are then constrained to exhibit themselves clean as well, at which point they can begin to compete for custom with the State banks. So, no unfairness there - just get your house in order!This is radical, direct, and is at least as good as the alternatives. Mon 19 Jan 2009 19:04:46 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=27#comment21 Dave, Does Israel have a "God given" right to control all land sea and air access and egress to Gaza, from which it "withdrew"?From the Israeli idea of what a "Palestinian State" should be:"The character of the provisional Palestinian state will be determined through negotiations between the Palestinian Authority and Israel. The provisional state will have provisional borders and certain aspects of sovereignty, be fully demilitarized with no military forces, but only with police and internal security forces of limited scope and armaments, be without the authority to undertake defense alliances or military cooperation, and Israeli control over the entry and exit of all persons and cargo, as well as of its air space and electromagnetic spectrum. "Road Map Reservations Mon 19 Jan 2009 18:11:29 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=26#comment20 QL 20, People, maybe. The press, no. Mon 19 Jan 2009 18:02:07 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=25#comment19 I wonder why the British media hasn't complained about US Airways polluting the Hudson River by landing an airplane in it. Probably because it was an Airbus A320 made you know where. Mon 19 Jan 2009 18:00:38 GMT+1 U12196018 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=23#comment18 DMcN (15) - People do have a "God-given right" to go to Gaza. However, the Israelis have taken the right away. Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:59:22 GMT+1 now_and_then http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=22#comment17 I know we've had quite a lot of obituaries in the last few days, but surely there should have been room for a few words to mark the passing of Kathleen Byron. She had one of the most iconic images in British cinema. Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:56:41 GMT+1 U13772369 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=21#comment16 The final FTSE number (only 30 odd down, sounds like another bit of Treasury - BoE management.(Perish the thought, the BoE doing that under cover? Acting like the Fed??)They'd do it today 'cos today was the day for announcing the government's next hand out to the banks.Blimey, the Tories don't need to get into power.This government is lining the pockets of the bankers (the Tory's friends) more richly than Cameron and Klook ever could!!Le Crash:They didn't see it coming 'cos they don't have a theory as to why it could happen.It's 'cos it's a disciplining device that many hard nosed financiers actually approve of.(Compare it with Thatcher's unemployment creating slump. Anti - union sentiment loved it.See the wood for the trees. This one is about disciplining the American (subprime) poor, India, China and oil Islam. (Compare with the withdrawal of loans to Germany by America in the 1930s when Hitler was the target)The only questions are Will it work, will finance defeat democracy? and Will Obama be like Blair and sell out?As for prediction, qua professional economist I have predicted this crisis since the recovery from the dot come boom bust bubble.In a way, prediction is too journalistic to be interesting.The CREATION and use (the latter moderately well described by N. Klein) of crisis should be a constant component of the narrative which describes capitalism. As it has been vis a vis Japan, Germany, the Soviet Union, Opec, the Asian Tigers etc in the accounts I have submitted to Universities like Leicester in economics departments, for the last 18 years.Of course they dismissed the accounts. But truth is the sort of task master that ignores rejection by second raters. Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:55:16 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=19#comment15 mm 14, Maybe they are both Danish. Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:50:11 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=18#comment14 So a man got punched for taking photos of Grace Mugabe without asking. Serves him right. It's like media people complaining that they can't get into Gaza (some have) like they have a God-given right to go there. Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:46:09 GMT+1 moraymint http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=17#comment13 Sorry, me again. Have you noticed the spooky similarity between the speaking styles/tones of Nils Blythe and Sandi Toksvig? It just struck me over the weekend when I was listening to The News Quiz. Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:45:13 GMT+1 moraymint http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=15#comment12 When will politicians learn that you can't buck the market?The normal laws of supply and demand ... (honourable) lending and borrowing, (true) asset valuations and natural resource constraints (our over-populated planet is running short of cheap energy and other resources we desparately need to sustain our unsustainable lifestyles) ... will eventually hold sway over anyone and everyone who tries to defy them. Supreme Leader Brown is no exception.The situation is, to a large extent, a reflection of Gordon Brown's character: the man who thinks politicians know best (he in particular) and that Gordon's beloved State can do whatever the hell it likes, provided we chuck enough (debt and taxpayers') money at it, and keep spinning the story (that's your job Lord Mandelson). The Big Clunking Fist might be helpful for knocking about a few tiresome civil servants and hostile political colleagues, but after that ... forget it.Call a General Election? You must be joking! Power at all costs, that's Gordon's mantra ... hence the forced departure of his predecessor.I know I'm sounding like a stuck record, but those of us that monitor and interpret what's really going on and where this is heading and, moreover, operate in the real world (of running a business, in my case) ... we can see the writing on the wall. It doesn't make pleasant reading.The party's over (yes, politicians, that's right ... the party's over ... finished ... ended) and now its payback time. For us and for our children: it's why the British people are getting more angry by the day with all of this nonsense. Throw in "secret expense accounts" for MPs at a time like this and one wonders just what planet these people inhabit?We'd do better having a political party tell us just how they're going to manage this crisis for what it is, than to watch the likes of Brown/Darling thrash about fighting the last war (= trying to re-establish a debt-fuelled economy that, er, led us into this mess in the first place) and making matters worse with each new panic-stricken, wizard wheeze.Bear in mind, this has now turned into a battle for survival of the Labour Party in power (perhaps survival of the Labour Party full-stop?) and has little to do with the best interests of 60 million increasingly furious UK citizens. How can it be when we're now in hock to the tune of squillions of pounds for years and years and years to come, without so much as a by your leave in Parliament? Who voted for that? Who voted for Gordon? He designed all this, for goodness sake!PS When do we start preparing charges against a few senior bankers, by the way? There must have been some breaches of commercial or other laws in this mess somewhere?PPS I posted this earlier on Mr Peston's Blog; hope that's OK and not in contravention of some BBC rule or other? Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:37:44 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=14#comment11 J W 11, There was an equally boring man who used to talk over everything important that he covered. It ruined the music. I think he is no longer with us. Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:30:16 GMT+1 Joe Walker http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=13#comment10 Oh no! The BBC's biggest windbag James Naughtie is covering the Presidential Inauguration tomorrow. Stand by for hours of endless self-satisfied prose and pompous musings. Another day of listening spoiled. How disappointing. Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:25:30 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=11#comment9 pmL 9, OK, you take over M&S and I'll have W**tr*s*. That's public ownership.I notice those other people you mention get quoted on the news and you.... Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:22:53 GMT+1 U13772369 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=10#comment8 Ignore Will Hutton, Vince Cable and Klook (Kenny Clarke) when it comes to REMEDIES.They are all anti- socialist and are fighting the REAL solution which is PUBLIC OWNERSHIP.Didn't Klook connive in every one of the Thatcher privatisations which now look like the daylight robbery they always were.And deeply unwise and economically inefficient as well.*********** As, curiously in the best account you will find of the subject, Will Hutton explains in The State We're In. (Its 'cos modern large scale industries are 'decreasing cost' and the economic efficiency criterion of price = marginal cost puts price below average cost. (I don't want to go on to say that means that profit making in those industries is inefficient ,that losses (with state subsidy) are the efficient thing to do, cos I don't see why I should get even more disopprobrium for truth telling from QL and DMcN. (They find it boring and untrue, respectively) Read Hutton. Then smile and vote socialist :-))))) Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:18:42 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=9#comment7 pmL 7, At the risk of being deleted like on the shoplifting discussion elsewhere, I used to bring stuff home from our local market thrown away at the end if the day to feed to our chickens and rabbits. OK, and ourselves. Also from the skips behind Sparks and Mencers. Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:16:20 GMT+1 U13772369 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=7#comment6 Picking up food at floor prices.In open air markets some traders (they call us 'mongrels') destroy product (I've seen them crushing box after box of tomatoes) rather than let us have them.Outside supermarkets their skips can be protected by security (It costs and so just adds to the waste)Some markets say the goods are still theirs and taking them is stealing. Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:07:37 GMT+1 mittfh http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=6#comment5 At the risk of making this thread even more nonsensical than it already is, I predict this will be the third post...Maybe with all the doom and gloom I should re-start my look at the lighter side of the news...(Hums a certain Eric Idle tune known for it's whistled hook...) Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:06:41 GMT+1 lbeagle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=5#comment4 Bank shares are beginning to approach what used to be called "penny shares". Surely the time will soon be nigh when only a fool would not start buying? What does the Sainted Nils think? Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:06:27 GMT+1 annasee http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=3#comment3 Maybe we need a Glass Box for the Beach. To discuss how the day's postings went. You know " I felt that one didn't really work for me" "I didn't understand the reference" "I thought this one was a bit cruel" sort of thing. Then a nice glass of wine each to restore calm. If not oblivion...I need to go and do some work. Must stop procrastinating here. Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:06:01 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=2#comment2 Hmmmmm, I could use more wood for the fire. Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:05:14 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=1#comment1 So this is the first comment? Mon 19 Jan 2009 17:01:23 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2009/01/the_glass_box_77.shtml?page=0#comment0 There have been no comments made here yet.Liar! Mon 19 Jan 2009 16:54:22 GMT+1