Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml en-gb 30 Sat 30 Aug 2014 16:24:14 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml RJMolesworth http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=97#comment46 CG@46"you are using the dichotomy, either/or model for behaviour" - like doctors using triage presumably.You might well thinks so, I couldn't possibly comment.One of the interesting things about prioritisation is that it allows you to determine which of the many possible things you could do is the most urgent, should have the most resources applied, will do the greatest good, etc. Wanting to live in a democracy doesn't get a high priority on your list. One might be tempted to think that the other things you prefer to do (like drinking tea and coffee together) could be seen as displacement activity for avoiding the really tricky issue. Thu 06 Nov 2008 19:45:46 GMT+1 Chris Ghoti http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=95#comment45 RJM @ 45, oh, right, I get it: you are using the dichotomy, either/or model for behaviour, in which every question has its one right answer and no possibility that one might want *both* improvements! Fair enough. I think it may lead to a paucity of ambition, but if one can only hold one priority at a time and to the exclusion of everything else [1], then fine.In real life, if I am asked 'Do you want tea or coffee for breakfast?' I don't assume that this means I can have only one or other of those two, but no cereal, toast, butter, marmalade... And if I am asked 'Do you want marmalade or apricot jam on your toast?' I don't assume that I must not *also* want butter on it.After all, even if the main part of the voting system is altered, the possibilities for fraud will still exist and will still need to be addressed, so one might as well start on fixing them *at the same time* as anything else one wishes to sort out. Personally I would like to see some attention given to the entire electoral system, *and* to the treatment given to cancer victims by the NHS, *and* to the prevention of the idiot ID-card rubbish, *and* .... [insert list here][1] there was a point a little while ago during which oour Prime Minister said he was giving 'absolutely all his time' to five different things within a seven-day period, which I found either very impressive or very depressing depending on whether I took his word for it or assumed he was simply saying what he thought people wanted to hear... Thu 06 Nov 2008 13:48:22 GMT+1 RJMolesworth http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=93#comment44 CG@44Because it is not the main source of the corruption. It is like asking a soldier who is about to bleed to death if he minds having his gangreneous arm amputated.If you are concerned about democracy it is wise to apply the tourniquet to the main artery before the patient dies rather than apply bandages to his minor cuts.Of course, the things that concern you need to be addressed, but I cannot understand why you are content not to live in a democracy. Whilst governments only have to worry about satisfying less than a million of its citizens in a few key areas they are not ever going to govern for the benefit of the majority. Thu 06 Nov 2008 08:11:35 GMT+1 Chris Ghoti http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=91#comment43 RJM @ 43, maybe it would be futile to ask why you object to the idea of not having corrupt elections under *any* system, but I would still like to know why not accepting lies and theft as a reasonable norm should be something that you reject as not being relevant to your 'lonely furrow'. Not planning to have elections at all, or what? Wed 05 Nov 2008 20:02:53 GMT+1 RJMolesworth http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=89#comment42 CG@42Glad to see you've got your priorities right. You won't be surprised to learn that you are in the majority in thinking as you do.I shall continue to plough my lonely furrow - for all the good it will do me and you. Wed 05 Nov 2008 18:49:53 GMT+1 Chris Ghoti http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=87#comment41 RJM @ 37, surely if the result is to be decided by more than the million or so who have the casting votes at the moment, it is *more* important, not less, that *everyone's* votes should be both confidential and correct? In any case, what possible justification can be made for claiming that it is a secret ballot when it is no such thing, or for it being apparently quite easy to subvert the present system by stealing voting papers and using them fraudulently? Merely because we might need to rejig the system, that doesn't mean we should ignore lying and theft, does it? Wed 05 Nov 2008 12:48:12 GMT+1 jonnie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=85#comment40 LOL - well as I leave BBC 1 now David seems to be struggling to fill in time! Looks like it's going to be a long night -As David has just said - as only he could'One of the sadnesses of modern communication?trying to link to something that didn't work.Least that's what I thoght he said?Damn - Have to leave when it's all becoming fun! Wed 05 Nov 2008 01:36:22 GMT+1 jonnie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=82#comment39 Oh typically when it becomes adddictive - that time comes when I realise I have to get some slleep.Ironically as I type - it seems in the balance - though I suspect not? Wed 05 Nov 2008 01:29:34 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=80#comment38 Roberto: We're all hoping to keep our sanity - and we hope the outcome of today's voting will help the world to regain some sanity!Best wishes, friend, from another Blog friend. Wed 05 Nov 2008 00:00:05 GMT+1 Roberto Carlos Alvarez-Galloso http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=78#comment37 Dear Gillianium and BBC PM:Thank you for your last letter. There is a Libertarian Party and a Green Party. Unfortunatly, there is no publicity since the Republicans and Democrats do everything in their power to block alternative parties from power via ballot access laws that are discriminatory. All of this in a country that pretends to "export" democracy to Iraq and other countries. I hope I am wrong in my predictions.I am only waiting to see what happens. One thing for sure, the BBC [including BBC PM] has kept my sanity as the alternative news source.Best Wishes from Florida.Roberto Tue 04 Nov 2008 23:53:08 GMT+1 RJMolesworth http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=76#comment36 CG@33It does not matter if it is not secret, it doesn't matter if 34 million votes are not counted. Less than 1 million will actually decide which party governs and what their majority is. The rest may as well not vote. Their vote has no effect on the selection of the government and only a minor effect on the selection of one MP. Tue 04 Nov 2008 22:48:47 GMT+1 Chris Ghoti http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=74#comment35 petepassword @ 34, heh! I was in a bar once when the news broke that someone had shot at the President of the US -- who was somewhat unpopular with that particular group of people. There was a certain amount of remarks about 'it couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke' until someone suddenly said 'Yes, but if he dies have you thought who will become President?'Thirty people on their knees all praying for Ronald Reagan's rapid recovery... Tue 04 Nov 2008 22:09:33 GMT+1 Lady_Sue http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=72#comment34 Without wishing to sound like the voice of doom... my brother in law has a theory that Obama may be the shortest serving President in America as some fame-seeking lunatic will try to bump him off as soon as he gets into office. I hope not - but it's an interesting theory.I'll be glad when this election nonsense is over too - it's getting to me. Night, Night John Boy Tue 04 Nov 2008 22:05:53 GMT+1 petepassword http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=70#comment33 20. At 5:34pm on 04 Nov 2008, Prof_use wrote:John McCain thinks he can cause an upset. He already has done by choosing Palin as his running mate.If the race did become really tight tonight and McCain had a heart attack with all the excitement Sarah Palin would be President tomorrow and you don't get a more upsetting prospect than that.Hey! That's my nightmare! The US could be at war with Canada next week. Tue 04 Nov 2008 21:47:22 GMT+1 Chris Ghoti http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=68#comment32 RJM, whatever system is used to decide how the votes are counted, it is surely a good idea to be sure that [a] every person is able to vote and [b] each person's vote is counted as being a vote for the person that they voted for rather than for someone else.Giving away postal votes to anyone who asks for one (and many people who haven't) without any check on who actually casts those votes is asking for trouble just as surely as machines that don't confirm what the vote just cast *was* are open to misuse, or having a man with a gun standing over the people counting the ballot papers and making it clear to them that if the answer they arrive at is 'wrong' they will become a sad accident. We may not have a secret ballot, but we do at least (in most places) have a ballot, and a paper-trail, and the possibility of a re-count... Tue 04 Nov 2008 21:35:34 GMT+1 Gillianian http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=65#comment31 Thank you so much, Roberto - from what I've heard and seen over here, I wouldn't have known there was such a party as the Libertarians.I can understand your fears about polarization - only time will tell if the new President is able to unify the nation's differing factions, and in the best sense of the words, I hope you're wrong.Very best wishes to you. Tue 04 Nov 2008 20:46:54 GMT+1 RJMolesworth http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=63#comment30 CG@29Our problems are much more fundamental than whether we use paper or machines to vote. When less than 1 million people decide not only which party will win but also the size of the majority, the last thing you need to worry about is voting technology. Tue 04 Nov 2008 20:36:39 GMT+1 Roberto Carlos Alvarez-Galloso http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=61#comment29 For Gilianian and the rest of the BBC PM Family: I would like to thank you for your comments. Personally, I do not like either candidate and voted Libertarian. The two parties that say a vote for an alternative party is a wasted vote has shown themselves to be irresponsible. I almost never voted since the election officials who are Republicans and Democrats tried to say that my voter card was null. I showed my driver's licence and voted. Overall, Florida has been smooth in spite of the problems with electricity and some of the voting booths breaking down.In Ohio, an Obama suppporter was assaulted by an unknown assailant. In Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; a group of people whoc claimed to be members of the Balck Panthers [a now defunct group] were intimidating voters.In Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the District Attorney had to restore Republican observers after being expelled by Democratic Observers.After reading about the following incidents, I decided that a vote for the Republicans and Democrats would be a vote for more polarization, hatred, and violence. I am afraid that the people of America that exist today have lost touch with democracy and freedom. Tue 04 Nov 2008 20:22:04 GMT+1 Chris Ghoti http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=59#comment28 DMcN @ 23, it is generally from places in the third world where they are having the first or second real election ever that we get shown large numbers of the population standing in line in the sun for four or five hours to exercise the franchise. It seems very strange to see pictures of such a thing happening in America. Still, I expect that in November weather fewer members of those lines will end up with sunstroke...Actually, I find it profoudly shocking. One person was saying on the news that 'the machines broke down early in the day' and that was the reason for the huge delays. I never knew a pencil and paper 'break down'. Maybe it is time to stop playing with technology and go back to a working system, one that manages in this country to get returns in within a few hours rather than days or weeks. I just hope that the flirting with these machines that has been starting to happen in this country is stopped before it starts to be accepted as a norm. Tue 04 Nov 2008 20:08:06 GMT+1 captain31 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=57#comment27 I sincerely hope that when I wake at 04.30 tomorrow with the world service on the radio that the talk is about president elect Barak Obama, I think that if John McCain wins I shall just give up and go and find a cave somewhere remote because a world with another version of George Bush is not a world I would wish to participate in. I know that the American people will do us proud and elect Obama, I can feel it in my water, lets hope that I am right. Tue 04 Nov 2008 19:37:37 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=55#comment26 mittfh (24): That was my point (see 17). Presumably, they couldn't make the original image fit .... Tue 04 Nov 2008 18:59:47 GMT+1 mittfh http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=53#comment25 David: you asked for it, you got it! :) Tue 04 Nov 2008 18:55:03 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=51#comment24 I guess by looking at the US flag I got it wrong when I said that I hoped the BBC would get things right about the US election. How about a flag of Ohio as it is so important in the election. Tue 04 Nov 2008 18:27:02 GMT+1 mittfh http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=48#comment23 For the benefit of those getting pedantic over the flag:This is the current flag - 50 stars arranged 6/5/6/5/6/5/6/5/6The flag as shown in the top has never been an official flag - there have never been 41 states or a flag arranged with 5/4/5/4/5/4/5/4/5 stars. There were 38 from July 4, 1877 to July 3, 1890, arranged 8/7/8/7/8; and 43 from July 4, 1890 to July 3, 1891, arranged 8/7/7/7/7/7.However...6/5/6/5/6/5/6/5/6 - official flag5/4/5/4/5/4/5/4/5 - displayed aboveSpot what happened - someone took the official flag, and cropped from the left hand side as well as the right... Tue 04 Nov 2008 18:17:54 GMT+1 David_McNickle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=46#comment22 Prof_use 19, We don't have queues in the US. We have lines. Tue 04 Nov 2008 18:11:32 GMT+1 SuperRubyMurry http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=44#comment21 Re 'Upshares-Downshares', if Eddie says Nils can have the theme-tune to that early 70's soap opera, we want our PM jingle back! We've now been in mourning for Princess Diana these past 11 years and I'm getting this vision of Eddie dressed in Queen Victoria's widow's weeds as he presents the programme. Stop it! And bring back the jingles. Tue 04 Nov 2008 17:58:05 GMT+1 molieres http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=42#comment20 AliceJust go to bed and get the sleep you need. The result will be the same whatever time you wake up! Tue 04 Nov 2008 17:54:00 GMT+1 Prof_use http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=40#comment19 John McCain thinks he can cause an upset. He already has done by choosing Palin as his running mate. If the race did become really tight tonight and McCain had a heart attack with all the excitement Sarah Palin would be President tomorrow and you don't get a more upsetting prospect than that. Tue 04 Nov 2008 17:34:06 GMT+1 Prof_use http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=38#comment18 I am still surprised by the length of the queues. People shouldn't have to wait 8 hours to vote. I hope they reform the system for next time. Tue 04 Nov 2008 17:27:23 GMT+1 Chris Ghoti http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=36#comment17 I think that all the people at the BBC are of the sort who open their Christmas presents on about December 10th, judging by the way that they can never wait for something actually to have happened before they start going on about it.In about March, on previous form, we shall have a better idea which side has really won the US election, and how much cheating stole which bits from whom how many times round the whats of where... Until then, we may know who has been decided to be the next President, but we certainly won't know that for sure this evening. So why not wait to start analysing it until tomorrow? Tue 04 Nov 2008 17:25:38 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=34#comment16 I can only imagine somebody got their cut 'n paste wrong when they put the flag on the Blog ....."Stand by your virgin"? Could be a tough one, that. Tue 04 Nov 2008 17:06:56 GMT+1 greyDalesman http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=31#comment15 Thank goodness it's nearly over!!Is the BBC now the Barack Broadcasting Company?Dear old auntie has gone really over the top with this one, there must be a lot of empty offices in the UK, everybody and his assistant is in the US.PLEASE, can we have a bit less in 2012. Tue 04 Nov 2008 16:49:08 GMT+1 eddiemair http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=29#comment14 If it's live text you like (13)...stand by your DABs, freeview and virgins. (Ahem) Tue 04 Nov 2008 16:47:24 GMT+1 The Stainless Steel Cat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=27#comment13 Thanks Roberto, always good to hear from you. Tue 04 Nov 2008 16:26:32 GMT+1 mittfh http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=25#comment12 OK, I'm officially sad. I have BBC News' Live Text Feed open in another tab, and check it regularly - even though it's mainly reporters commenting that the early queues have now died away, and Obama's camp are starting to get a little worried... Tue 04 Nov 2008 16:21:37 GMT+1 Gillianian http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=23#comment11 Hi Roberto - thanks for getting in touch. Maybe you'll let us know how you feel about the result? Tue 04 Nov 2008 16:08:42 GMT+1 Roberto Carlos Alvarez-Galloso http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=21#comment10 For Stainless Steel Cat: At the present time, voting is going smooth in Miami Florida. Regardless, there have been reports of foul play from both parties. Obama and Mc Cain have hired lawyers just in case the elections go wrong. Tue 04 Nov 2008 16:05:32 GMT+1 Roberto Carlos Alvarez-Galloso http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=19#comment9 Just to inform you that I E Mailed some photos of people voting early in Miami Florida. Tue 04 Nov 2008 16:03:59 GMT+1 topspin http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=17#comment8 Every election, the Left complains about voter fraud, but it's always the Democrats who block Republican attempts to pass basic security laws requiring photo id's.Maybe, cheating is on Lefties' mind, because that's all they know.Hillary Clinton supporters and campaign lawyers have argued that the only reason Obama won the Democratic nomination is because of widespread cheating and voter intimidation by Obama supporters in the party run caucuses. There are still many angry Hillary supporters who will vote for MaCain in protest. Tue 04 Nov 2008 15:29:54 GMT+1 U12196018 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=14#comment7 Mrs Eff - It's only showing the stars for the States that the Repubicans can't rig. Tue 04 Nov 2008 15:29:21 GMT+1 Mrs Effingham http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=12#comment6 Eddie, have you counted how many stars are on the US flag you're showing on the Blog. I think it's the one they used in 1912. It might be appropriate if Woodrow Wilson, Theodore Roosevelt and Willaim Howard Taft were all still running for the big job. But I hardly think it works for the USA08 campaign.The BBC... it's what we do. :0) Tue 04 Nov 2008 15:10:43 GMT+1 The Stainless Steel Cat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=10#comment5 I've just watched the video clip on the BBC news page where Obama sticks his ginormous voting sheet in a mahcine and says, "I voted..."But it cuts off before he says who he voted for. I think we should be told. Tue 04 Nov 2008 14:59:28 GMT+1 The Stainless Steel Cat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=8#comment4 So what equivalents of Florida 8 years ago will we have today?Hanging chads? Diebold machines acting suspiciously? Polls closing early? Tue 04 Nov 2008 14:55:40 GMT+1 Fearless Fred http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=6#comment3 whoops! I meant by this time tomorrow Tue 04 Nov 2008 14:42:44 GMT+1 Gillianian http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=4#comment2 All over bar the shouting, Ffred ;o) Tue 04 Nov 2008 14:32:07 GMT+1 Triffid100 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=2#comment1 One day to go and then the BBC can report something else ! Woohoo ! Tue 04 Nov 2008 14:28:21 GMT+1 Fearless Fred http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/11/us_elections_1.shtml?page=0#comment0 At least by this time it should all be over... Tue 04 Nov 2008 14:28:11 GMT+1