Comments for en-gb 30 Fri 03 Jul 2015 18:08:52 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at justfloating Thanks 45. It is just part of the whole unified "fear" strategy.They have tried to divert hatred uniformly to everyone. 4x4 drivers, smokers, drinkers, obese, youngsters, plane travellers. One after another, out troops some politician to hate the common people.It's all your fault! Get it! Nothing to do with government.This along with the direct fear of being caught for innocent mistakes. Dropping sausage roles, activities in side your own home, even web surfing will get you in trouble soon, when they record all the web sites you visit (Ever visited a dodgy site by mistake or had your link hijacked). There are no innocent people.Then there is the misuse of technology. Have you read the criminal guide to DNA avoidance on the web? Interesting. Kind of ruins the whole idea of using DNA.What about tazers. Real criminals only have to wear a simple conductive vest. However, as a large chap I fear even running for a train. I might get shot first as no weedy policeman would risk stopping me.Fear and hatred is all these politicians deal in. They are like inexperienced managers that can not step back and see the whole picture and insist on micro managing. Bring back the Lords and give them their power back. I want a lot of old dithers, with nothing to lose, to work on behalf of us controlling the excesses of the juvenile house of commons Thu 28 Aug 2008 21:52:33 GMT+1 RJMolesworth What is it about human beings that they have to have someone to despise. Now we are not allowed to discriminate against people for their race, ethnicity, religion, sex or age we have a go at them for being fat.Fat people used to be considered jolly and thought of with affection but now they are the only diversity left that can be safely criticised it is open season on them.I would like to see the comparative NHS costs for 1. the "thin and stupid" and 2. the "thin with poor genes" and 3. the "thin with mental health problems" and 4. the "thin with industrial diseases" and 5. the "thin who smoke too much" as opposed to "the sick for no other reason than I am fat".I would bet that fat or thin the figures for 1 to 5 would be similar fat or thin. In fact they might be less. Fewer fat people injure themselves skiing, roller-blading, hang-gliding or mountaineering.The teenagers who injure themselves and others in stolen cars that you see on the "cops with helicopters" programmes are not fat but they consume NHS and police resources.Most frail old people are not fat but they consume NHS and Social Services Budgets.Perhaps fat people die young and help preserve your pension fund by never drawing their pensions. Be grateful to them. Don't abuse them. Thu 28 Aug 2008 19:43:35 GMT+1 Chris Ghoti VH @ 31, You wrote 'The reason why obesity is bothering politicians nowadays is that they see'Stop there, and put in the word 'it'. If people were not on average fatter than they used to be, there would instead be a scare about how being too thin means that you are less able to fight off disease in later life, more likely to hurt yourself if you fall over, and probably lots of other things that I haven't thought of; magazines and papers would be full of articles about 'Underweight? Ten tips to put on the pounds!', and GPs would be looking at the thin patients in their surgeries and telling them to go away and eat a Mars Bar a day, and debating whether it would be acceptable to deny operations to anyone whose weight was too low.Politicians would worry about whether 'skinny' was offensive, or hurtful, or whatever, and try to find ways to refer to the weight-challenged that wouldn't upset anyone. Thu 28 Aug 2008 15:55:34 GMT+1 David_McNickle TIH 35, Right after lunch. Burp! Thu 28 Aug 2008 15:38:21 GMT+1 David_McNickle sgw 38, Are you Polish? Thu 28 Aug 2008 15:36:25 GMT+1 vainly_here The reason why obesity is bothering politicians nowadays is that they see potential costs to, inter alia, the NHS. The only other problem casued by obesity is in the space taken up, e.g. on public transport. I used to travel to Bristol on a DMU which had, nominally, five seats across the carriage. They were hardly wide enough for a skinny person like me. Thu 28 Aug 2008 15:23:09 GMT+1 sgwbsyci And another thing ... (once I've got started I can't stop)I don't know if I'm allowed to mention company names but if not, I expect the name will be deleted - anyway, it's a very famous company which offers assistance those who wish/need to lose weight and maintain a healthy weight/bmi.Sure, there are lots of people who could do with losing some weight, but what do they get from the NHS? Just a 'go and sin no more' from their doctor, that's what. It's not that hard to lose weight if you've just let things get out of hand, but it is hard to do it on your own. It means making all kinds of changes, not necessarily major ones, and the same thing does not work for everyone. You need some support, some encouragement, some suggestions about different approaches, some ideas about interesting ways to serve foodstuffs which may be new to you etc etc.I have never read or heard anything in the press but criticism about those who are in the 'obesity business', like WeightWatchers; the idea seems to be that that's just what it is - a kind of dastardly scheme which sets people up to fail so that they are obliged to return again and again to fill the coffers of the cynical manipulators who are 'only in it to make money'.Well, making money is what business is about, it isn't a crime, and returning to the group because you have put on weight again is hardly a failure - on the contrary, surely it's a positive move?Weight Watchers is the only one of these concerns of which I have experience, (no I don't have shares or work for them), and I think that the product offered is a good one. The company has evolved and made innovations over the years and I would challenge anyone to research it properly and find fault - or to fail to lose weight with it's assistance if that is what they truly need to do.The only problem is that WW costs money, and not everyone can afford it. If obesity is a disease which our health service seriously wishes to combat, then it needs to either offer a scheme of the same standard as WW, or be prepared to prescribe WW, or its equivalent, support to those who need it.And I do so agree with other comments about not teaching cookery in school, and about the cost of food - fresh food is not expensive! Processed food is expensive! I don't understand the theory that if we're poor, we are obliged to eat things that will make us obese - like what for instance? Thu 28 Aug 2008 14:35:38 GMT+1 FelixPC The causes of obesity are not as simple as Andrew Lansley seems to imply, and neither are the solutions.For a well researched appraisal on obesity and dieting myths, I suggest " The Diet Delusion" by Gary Taubes.Well worth reading!How I wish Parliamentarians would research their subjects thoroughly before deciding to lecture us YET AGAIN. Thu 28 Aug 2008 14:34:46 GMT+1 sgwbsyci I was very interested to hear from people who appear to be unable to maintain a 'normal' weight/bmi in spite of an active lifestyle and good diet. One member of my family fits this description exactly, and I am quite surprised that she has not (yet) punched her GP, who appears to think she is either lying or fooling herself when she says that she rows twice a week on the sea, swims miles in the pool and visits the gym twice a week. She is very strong and fit, does not normally eat convenience foods, and yet feels she is constantly judged to be fat and lazy.I think this is a serious issue for many people, who do not deserve any of the criticism which makes it so difficult for them to feel good about themsleves. I agree with one of the previous comments - look at some of those singers on Last Choir Standing. They so obviously in the peak of helath and fitness! Thu 28 Aug 2008 14:18:38 GMT+1 UptheTrossachs His photo reminds me of a barman, a smug one at that. I wonder if he is indeed a smug bar steward? Thu 28 Aug 2008 13:27:31 GMT+1 vainly_here Well, I've put on at least 2 stones since I came to Gloucester in 1972. I'm not sure whether I weighed 10 stones then or 9.5. My wife says I was too thin then. Now she doesn't like my Frogging name but just the other day said I was vile. Annasee, you get your sweets free? Where is this? I must know. Thu 28 Aug 2008 12:13:10 GMT+1 U10783173 DMcN (33) - You had your lunch by 11:58 am? What time is dinner? Thu 28 Aug 2008 11:23:40 GMT+1 annasee Reading the above posts, I think maybe the whole supermarket shopping phenomenon has had something to do with it. Thinking back to when I was at school, there were only 2 fat girls in the school of over 1000 pupils. I don't remember any fat boys! The school had no tuck shop. Many mothers, (but not all) were at home, and everyone cooked their meals from scratch. The only take away food was the very occasional fish and chip meal.But to buy food, you went to the (small)grocery store, where the shopkeeper got much of the food for you and put it in a (paper) bag. There weren't the aisles of temptations like crisps, chocolates, fancy biscuits that there are in our shops now. If you wanted sweets, you went to the "Dairy" on the corner, (I know that sounds odd, but this was N Z in the 60's) and the shopkeeper put the ones you chose, from a big jar,into a paper bag. A modern supermarket would have seemed like a heaven beyond our wildest dreams in those days! But look at what happens now we have free access to all the rubbish we can eat... Thu 28 Aug 2008 11:17:15 GMT+1 David_McNickle steelpulse 5, You're not talking about Nicholas Soames or Eric Pickles are you?auntbiscuit 22, Oooooo, you are such a martyr! I had a stick of celery for lunch. OK, it was stuffed with cream cheese. Thu 28 Aug 2008 10:58:28 GMT+1 U11204129 Remember the bloke's a Tory.'We don't do as much manual work as we did'!Well, he smuggled that one in. Tories never did do ANY! That's why they're Tories.When Adam delved And Eve spanWho thenWas the gentleman?Hard manual work avoidance is what drives them. Still.Toffs for generations a la Cameron.And, I guess, a la blonde bombshell Doris Bunter 'mare of London. Its only a guess, though ,'cos I've yet to catch up with Who The Heck He Thinks He Is. As not seen by me on TV.Well, for me, its their turn. They really should be new labour indeed, rather than rhetoric. Thu 28 Aug 2008 10:11:40 GMT+1 1948Les I don't think walking, swimming or going to the gym will help much in losing weight. Get out of bed an hour earlier and go for a run every day. After a few months the weight will come down, not just because you lose 100 calories per mile but also because there are other effects on the appetite so you don't eat as much. I know a chap at work who went from 19 stone to 13 by this method. I have been doing a couple of miles per day for 40 years so I can vouch for it. Also getting up at 5:45 does wonders for the ability to go to sleep the night before.Having been brought up in the 1950s I remember in those days there was only one person I knew who was really fat. Now you can't get up and down the aisles in Tesco without meeting double figures of such people. Maybe there is a connection since in the 1950s my mother had to wait while the chap in the Co-op served you! Thu 28 Aug 2008 05:54:05 GMT+1 justfloating Can anyone tell me why the picture of Andrew Lansley above is called "slimjim.jpg"!Oh hum..! Wed 27 Aug 2008 23:54:30 GMT+1 janecrimson Oh no, it wouldn't work would it? It would have the opposite effect! It is far too late, I must go to bed. Wed 27 Aug 2008 23:22:17 GMT+1 janecrimson I'm fat, I'm fat, and I know why.It's because I eat too much and don't do enough exercise. I don't need anyone to tell me that, I think it's obvious. I know quite a few people who are fat and say "I don't know why I can't lose weight, I hardly eat anything". They are in denial, simple as that. They just say all that stuff because they feel guilty. It's simple physics, if energy in equals energy out then weight will remain stable.PS: diamondMaxMillan, I misread what you wrote, I read it as: "..... Just because obesity is multifactorial doesn't absolve us from taking immodium......... " Actually that might work :-) Wed 27 Aug 2008 23:12:26 GMT+1 Mr MK Oak I followed this item with keen interest. What is it about the BMA that stops them acknowledging and stating that at some point all of have a responsibility. Being an organisation of caring profession is one thing but having an apoplectic reaction and pathological aversion to using the word 'Responsibility' is another.Just because obesity is multifactorial doesn't absolve us from taking modicum of responsibility for our own health. If we go along with the BMA then all of will need a nanny who will tell us to breathe in-out, eat sleep etc.It i sthe socialists who are sacred of the word responsibiluty because by using this they will loose their votes. Wed 27 Aug 2008 22:39:11 GMT+1 hubertbear Positive encouragement of a healthy weight was suggested by the minister. Perhaps he should first chat to clothes manufacturers. I am sure the tory party would approve of my weight - not underweight, but slim, but I find it impossible to buy clothes to fit in the majority of high street shops. My healthy children have slim builds and buying shoes and school uniform to fit is a nightmare. A positive encouragement would be the availablity of skirts for thin people!!!! Wed 27 Aug 2008 21:24:56 GMT+1 biscuit Incidently, sombody on the programme mentioned that we should avoid butter and eat low fat margarine----WRONG ! At the risk of sounding like a smug schoolmarm, I wouldn't touch margarine if you paid me. It's very bad for you. Butter is natural, just dont smother your food in it. Wed 27 Aug 2008 20:31:18 GMT+1 justfloating One thing is clear the group of individuals with the greatest increase in real obesity is the lone young mothers. This happens to be the group of the population with the most contact with the NHS system and the social support system. The education is quite clear. Why work? All will be provided. It is quite attractive for any youngster that has been failed by the school system and discarded by the work system. I remember Digby Jones interviewed about workers saying he had given up on our youngsters. It should be a crime to give up on someone to the point their life becomes pointless. They themselves were abandoned by the system so why should they think their offspring will fair any better. Idleness fuels obesity. We all need something to strive for. By creating the inescapable minimum wage/income support trap and publicly devaluing our offspring the politicians have created the problem. Stop altering the trivia and take a long hard look at the whole UK system. It is broken, and Andrew Lansley is another broken component waiting to be fitted into the system. Wed 27 Aug 2008 20:21:55 GMT+1 Thunderbird I do think that David Cameron should keep a tight leash (no pun intended from the other thread) on his shadow ministers because too many soppy outbursts of this nature could easily undo any future potential electoral gains Wed 27 Aug 2008 20:21:18 GMT+1 biscuit During the discussion about people who are overweight, I heard somone trot out the usual comment about those on low incomes not being able to afford good food that's nutritious. Our weekly grocery bill is usually £16 to £20 per person including cleaning items. We're not trying to be frugal, it just works out that way. Today breakfast was wholemeal cereal with grapes and blueberries, lunch was sardines on toast followed by a yoghurt and as I listened to the interview in question I was cooking the evening meal of liver, onions, cabbage, carrots and potatoes. None of which took much time to cook. Oh, I did have a mid morning snack- an apple. Somtimes we eat a veggie meal which is even cheaper. We drink wine and have the occasional cream cake. There's too much ready-made food to tempt people to eat. If people had to cook a meal from scratch they wouldn't bother unless they were hungry. Wed 27 Aug 2008 20:10:33 GMT+1 RJMolesworth Who is this chubby faced twit anyway? What's wrong with being fat? Be fat, die young was my uncle's motto. Unfortunately, he only made it to 89. If he had been slimmer he might have lived longer or it might just have seemed longer.Well said devavoce04 @ 16. I was a thin lazy kid who could eat as much as he liked and remained as thin as a rake. In my thirties I had to eat less and do more exercise. That was OK. In my fifties I found I could only loose weight by eating no more than 900 calories a day and exercising vigorously. That was when I made my uncle's lifestyle choice. If I only make it to 89 I shan't complain. I'm not living my life on 900 calories a day. I eat small healthy portions, never eat between meals, drink alchohol moderately and exercise moderately. I am clinically obese and I shall stay that way. Oh, and I shall never vote Tory. Wed 27 Aug 2008 19:51:27 GMT+1 justfloating I agree with 17 they have lost me.The reason is that according to the conservatives I am obese. I have been since birth. They quote figures that are based on the belief of Body Mass Index to support Andrew Lansley's speech.I have a BMI of 31.6 but have a 34 inch waist. Last week I was labouring for a bricklayer. Last weekend I walked 12 miles for fun. 3 years ago I finished sailing around the world. Obviously I am a couch potato!So what is wrong? Simply I am not an average person. Absolute BMI values should not be used on individuals. Definitely not on children. They are OK to use as comparisons: for example: a record of the BMI of an individual over childhood will show trends etc. BMI can also be used over large populations to show trends. But the value of 30 put on obesity has no scientific basis. It is extracted from averages. Some of us are just not average, but we are an underclass. We are denied NHS treatment, denied adoption opportunities, we are the unwanted. We have been told we are delusional and just full of excuses.However Andrew Lansley thinks we all should be perfectly average. So is he a supporter of a perfect race? Using BMI to judge if someone is obese and to withhold treatment or pull a child out of class for extra food training, is to selectively support only those humans that fit his "normality".I agree there is an obesity problem but the BMI measurement is skewing the results and misdirecting the solutions.If dim politicians continue to react to situations by pumping money into communities without seeing the real causes and looking beyond the stupid statistics we will continue our downward spiral. Wed 27 Aug 2008 19:40:34 GMT+1 jonty177 One problem seems to be finding a way to encourage people to eat well and exercise. The talk is all of "The Nanny State" and punishing bad behaviour.One great motivation is that eating a healthy diet, learning to cook and doing exercise will make you happier than eating junk food, watching TV and getting drunk. I think that sums up something fundamentally wrong with our present culture. We are offered quick fixes for all our problems by adverts selling us booze, junk food and more telly programmes. Quick fixes don't solve the underlying problem, making a happy life requires a bit more work than just sitting there and consuming.Happiness for all should be a government goal - and as we get people happy, they will stop binge drinking, overeating and stabbing each other. For more about this go to Wed 27 Aug 2008 19:32:15 GMT+1 amazingmorag This is nothing to do with childhood obesity but happend during the programme tonight, I think Andew Lansley actually said that the conservatives combatted HIV in the 1980s. How do these MPs get away with making rash statements with no substance Wed 27 Aug 2008 18:36:43 GMT+1 atcham jack so the nasty party is alive and well again thankfully reducing the minute chance of election it ever had Wed 27 Aug 2008 17:41:16 GMT+1 devavoce04 This is all very interesting. Whilst I agree with many of the points Andrew Lansley has made and his apparent stance on this subject, I, as a human being labelled as 'obese' since the age of about 5years of age (now 55) find the lack of deep understanding of this subject extremely tiresome. I have felt marginalised, attacked, misunderstood, confused etc etc over the years. When will the government put funding into research around the connection of the mind and the bodymind? I am sick to death of being told what to eat, what not to eat, that it isn't metabolism, that it isn't genetic that it is this and that .... How ridiculous it all is! I am an intelligent, highly skilled professional person as are many other 'obese' or labelled obese people. Do you think we can't think for ourselves? Do you think we don't know what healthy choices are? The government and scientists certainly don't appear to as views on diet vs health change everyday..... Frankly, I am sick of trying to make healthy choices and battling with my weight... a fear and a self flagellation that was instilled in me as young as 9years of age.... never being acceptable as I am, doing my best like everyone else.... I don't drink, I am a wholefood vegetarian, I don't smoke, I swim I go to the gym twice a week - more on a good week....I fund my own health care of acupuncture and other therapies when needed and STILL have to pay into what I consider to be a National health service which has made the people of this country dependant and UNABLE to take responsibility for their health themselves! I run up and down stairs when I can.... if not totally shattered and exhausted because I am constantly trying to feel ok in this society - a society which likes to just accuse, blame and shame.... Please... can we just shut up in this country? Can we just get on with life and doing what we're good at .... I've had enough... I'm doing my own thing and living my life in the best possible, most conscious way I can! At least I'm awake ..... Wed 27 Aug 2008 17:28:58 GMT+1 1v0R1952 On the subject of traffic light food labeling. It is worth noting that it is not just the amount of salt sugar fat etc in a portion but the size of a portion and how often. If you like burgers that's ok just don't have them to the exclusion of more healthy choices. Once or twice a month is probably fine. Wed 27 Aug 2008 17:18:32 GMT+1 1v0R1952 If you are fat then it is your responsibilty.In my case I agree with that statement. I had a change of job and lifestyle, more food, less exercise - result I gained 21lbs and a trouser size. I started taking a little more exercisen and counting my calorie intake - result I lost the 21lbs and more. Wed 27 Aug 2008 17:12:43 GMT+1 Moriconium If someone wants to lose weight they will never do it until it is THEIR will to do it.Over~eating is an addiction.Traffic lights on foods are there simply as a good will gesture by the manufacturers however it will not really help much.However if the Government legislated and made it law that any pre-packed, bottled or canned food had to accurately state the number of Calories in EACH container, the Country would soon become informed.Accurate information is the fundamental key to any reformation.Of course the Manufacturers and Corporations would not want this to happen ~ Large Bars of Chocolate with 2000 Calories per item or Crisps at 240 Calories per Packet etc. would soon result in awareness and perhaps, just perhaps, people would start to realise why they are so fat!Of course the powerful Corporations would much prefer that the Country remained obese and suffered the consequences rather than see their profits diminish.Just a thought! Wed 27 Aug 2008 17:07:37 GMT+1 Sindy It'll be interesting to see if the Tories take Andrew Lansley's ideas to their logical conclusion - would a Tory government, for instance, give us the information about [currently illegal] drugs and then let us take responsibility for how we use them? Wed 27 Aug 2008 17:05:03 GMT+1 U11235707 @8Are you referring to the 'Visitor' system at Universities? Wed 27 Aug 2008 17:03:12 GMT+1 lenioco It was the Conservative government in the 1980s which removed home economics from the school curriculum. This deprived future generations of the chance to learn aobut healthy food, preparation and cooking. The obesity crisis is the natural consequence of this foolish action, and no-one is seeing the cause and effect or attempting to rmedy it. The fault lies entirely with successive governments who always give in to the pressures of the food industry. Wed 27 Aug 2008 17:00:23 GMT+1 brother_john You cannot change consumers' habits by telling them that one thing is good for you and another bad. Its a pointless exercise to tell people not to eat the foodstuffs they like. The public is resistant to advice whether it is good or bad, and really only interested in the pleasures of today, and not the consequences of tomorrow. There is also an issue with the changing demographic of the UK. There are many groups of people for whom - for cultural and historical reasons - being big is seen as attractive and beneficial. Nothing we can do in Britain is going to change this. The only thing we can do is to stop food manufacturers and supermarkets putting junk foodstuffs on our supermarket shelves. You can't buy it if it isn't there. Wed 27 Aug 2008 16:56:54 GMT+1 Alfred_Vella Eddie asked ‘but will it work?’ and of course the answer is emphatically NO!Obesity, loutish behaviour, drunkenness, knife crime, …, and even terrorism are symptoms of a system that denies justice to the ordinary citizen.A sign of this is when, for example, a middle manager at a new university is sacked for whistle blowing. Despite attempts at obtaining justice through ‘normal channels’ it is denied. The Prime Minister even ignoring a petition signed by family, friends, past students and past staff of the institution in question as well as a number of current and past local councillors. What are less well placed observers to make of such a system?We call on the Prime Minister to ensure that real justice, rather than mere law, rules in the United Kingdom. As a first step towards this we ask him to have a Royal Commission on ‘Justice not Just Law’See Wed 27 Aug 2008 16:54:31 GMT+1 Big Sister Re the Traffic Lights system:These are mainly used on 'processed' foods. For somebody in a rush and picking up a ready meal, they can be very useful. Anybody who cooks from scratch would have to approach things quite differently, if they are watching their weight and/or other health issues. But an at a glance guide to high salt, high fat, is very useful for most shoppers.For what it's worth, I think the biggest problem is the move towards eating ready meals ... Wed 27 Aug 2008 16:49:05 GMT+1 U11235707 I'm BIG BONED; they should stop putting bones in chocolate and burgers. Wed 27 Aug 2008 16:48:48 GMT+1 steelpulse Mr Lansley. If it isn't a medical condition - we have no one to blame but ourselves for our weight. It is our responsibility. Accepted.Now who is going to run that by - say - overweight MPs - just to test the theories effectiveness, you understand? So - who will speak to supposedly erring in this area MPs - you or - you? lol Wed 27 Aug 2008 16:46:45 GMT+1 Jonathan Morse how do you define 'obese'? The singers on the BBC's 'Last Choir Standing' are sometimes quite large but they are clearly all fit and usually practice for 2 hours a week before this competition came along. perhaps it's not a lifestyle that causes obesity Wed 27 Aug 2008 16:30:28 GMT+1 DI_Wyman Note to self....must stop snorting lard. Wed 27 Aug 2008 16:24:20 GMT+1 U11204129 What does he have to say about blonde bombshell Doris Bunter, 'mare of London? Wed 27 Aug 2008 16:13:20 GMT+1 David_McNickle You mean Lansley smokes fat? That will set of the smoke detector. Wed 27 Aug 2008 16:08:52 GMT+1