Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml en-gb 30 Mon 14 Jul 2014 02:19:38 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml U14674094 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=99#comment223 I've posted something similar on Stephanie's blog but its conclusion seems particularly PM orientated: ('Us' is the left) You think they're taking notice of us, Mervyn and the MPC members?Us saying:'QE is the rich people's route to affluence - affluence for them and them alone as they use it to bid up their assests'. is not what's motivated them.Us saying:'Stop making the rich richer. You saved every last one during the credit crunch, as if thir erstwhile wealth was a measure of their value'has left them cold.Us saying:'Your account 'QE lowers interest rates and so weakens the currency and so increases competitiveness as capital inflates the economies of Asian competitors' is nonsense. The currency is weak anyway and exports are unresponsive and imports booming. Anyway, the initial impact is inflationary at home.has gone unheeded.What's motivated them to hold off from further QE (which WILL come) is the effect the US QE is having HERE, anyway. Just on 2 percent on the Ftse in a day.Upshares Downshares should be the battle song of the revolution. It's the same game as the TV prog. it comes from. The rich get it all, the poor suffer. Thu 04 Nov 2010 23:27:50 GMT+1 lucien desgai http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=99#comment222 Dav's not the only LibDem with a conscience.I just listened to the Guardian's Politics Weekly podcast which has LibDem activist Richard Grayson as a guest. He talks of staying in the party to fight the dominance of the market fundamentalists. I'm not sure how much success he can really expect to have but it's good to hear a LibDem who doesn't see it as his role to defend the Tory cuts.http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/audio/2010/nov/04/politics-weekly-podcast-tea-party-britain Thu 04 Nov 2010 19:13:11 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=98#comment221 202. davmcn"I am about to tell my local Lib Dem leaflet distributer that I won't deliver any more until we get out of the coalition." I think we can all show some respect for davmcn who has made a principled stand. Well done davmcn at least you have not sold out. Thu 04 Nov 2010 18:42:03 GMT+1 Ellis P Otter http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=98#comment220 Just mentioned on the 6 o'clock.I'll have to think of something to feed my news fix. Thu 04 Nov 2010 18:24:15 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=97#comment219 If there was, Cat, it passed right over my head (or through my ears) ;o) Thu 04 Nov 2010 18:05:13 GMT+1 The Stainless Steel Cat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=97#comment218 I got distracted. Was there a mention? Or can we look forward to 60 minutes of the Upshares, Downshares CD tomorrow? Thu 04 Nov 2010 18:03:42 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=96#comment217 How silly of me, I meant feather your nest. (Beat Sid to it.) Thu 04 Nov 2010 17:47:41 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=96#comment216 Well, Cat, "I think we should be told";o) Thu 04 Nov 2010 17:41:15 GMT+1 The Stainless Steel Cat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=95#comment215 So, no PM tomorrow because of the BBC journo's strike?http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/nov/04/bbc-strike-news-off-air?CMP=twt_fd Thu 04 Nov 2010 17:38:08 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=95#comment214 Is that Lord Razzle Dazzle? Thu 04 Nov 2010 17:16:30 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=95#comment213 BS 213, I'll bet his pockets have holes in them. Sniff sniff boo hoo... Thu 04 Nov 2010 17:05:37 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=94#comment212 Somehow, David, I doubt Joe does either. :o) Thu 04 Nov 2010 17:03:02 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=94#comment211 fJd 200, You line your pockets and feather your bed. Thu 04 Nov 2010 17:00:19 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=93#comment210 Dd (204)Seconded Thu 04 Nov 2010 13:46:51 GMT+1 Alan_N http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=93#comment209 209 - I think the point is that there are better ways of delivering the same outcome. The AWB was fit fur purpose in 1948, but things have moved on since then. Thu 04 Nov 2010 13:07:47 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=92#comment208 Re: my 208Googled Agricultural Wages Board and found this link:http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/31/axing-agricultural-wages-boardAgricultural workers are low paid, work unsocial hours and in all weathers but they just aint poor enough apparently. Must be some fairness there somewhere, otherwise the Lib/Dems would never have OK'ed it! Thu 04 Nov 2010 12:17:34 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=92#comment207 199. Anna CardiumThanks for the link. We are all in it together and have a government that is going to put fairness at the centre of policy making.Oh yeah... Watch out there is a low flying pig.I grew up in a village in Hertfordshire and the Farm owners always moaned about how poor they were. Yet they drove Range Rovers and sent their kids to public schools.I understand that the ConDems have or are going to scrap the Agricultural Workers pay board, it is a quango apparently. Maybe someone can correct me on this as I am not 100% sure. Thu 04 Nov 2010 11:58:43 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=91#comment206 Yes, I've followed that story, Anna. Down here, the 'big' landowners have been stumbling blocks for many years in relation to the South Downs. They hold power in so many ways, and not least because they are so heavily represented on local bodies, so that when consultations are made, they pull the strings. It took a Labour government to cut through the proverbial and finally force upon them the creation of the new National Park - which is heavily supported by the majority of folk living in the area. Thu 04 Nov 2010 11:55:50 GMT+1 Anna Cardium http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=91#comment205 203. Big Sister"One rule for them and another rule for the rest ...."Aye, it reminds me of an old "consultation" exercise:"many landowners and particularly land agents expressed doubts about the propriety of public funding going to benefit a small number of individuals and about the longer-term financial viability of some/all of such ventures"[crofts, etc.]From Scottish Office: Identifying the solutions 4.1:"However, many land agents and landowners were concerned that smallholdings and crofts could not be sustainable and would be dependent on subsidy;"From Scottish Office Identifying the solutions 9.1:The irony is too rich to believe! The comments come from those who constitute 'a small number of individuals', already in receipt of considerable public funding under present subsidies to present practices in farming and forestry, which are demonstrably un-sustainable and totally dependent on subsidy! Thu 04 Nov 2010 11:37:34 GMT+1 darkdesign http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=91#comment204 To the Disabled People of Great Britain And Northern Ireland:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEdNFoJ4Ijk&feature=relatedA call to arms to the disabled. Thu 04 Nov 2010 10:09:14 GMT+1 lucien desgai http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=90#comment203 Good on you dav! Thu 04 Nov 2010 06:19:05 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=90#comment202 199: Thanks for the link, Anna. There's a lot of it around this neck of the woods, too. One rule for them and another rule for the rest .... Thu 04 Nov 2010 00:35:42 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=89#comment201 Why does a person study theology at Cambridge then want to go into law or the Civil Service after graduating? Is theology like studying Greek or Viking gods?Ln 198, All MPs of all color who got a university degree for free should now cough up the money they expext present students to pay. I am about to tell my local Lib Dem leaflet distributer that I won't deliver any more until we get out of the coalition. Wed 03 Nov 2010 17:43:03 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=89#comment200 Anna (199)Thats easy. Cause all their mates are in parliament and its the old school tie looking after one another. Wed 03 Nov 2010 17:36:47 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=88#comment199 Now you know why those other European coalitions take a long time in bartering out agreements before the agree to coalesce. The Lib Dems saw a way of feathering their own pockets, (and ministerial pensions)how could they refuse. The electorate is no more than an occupational hazard to many polititians in my opinion. Wed 03 Nov 2010 17:33:12 GMT+1 Anna Cardium http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=88#comment198 Why, when benefits are to be capped at £26,000 per year and housing benefit at £400 per week, do some families receive over £1 million in public subsidy?one for Looter Wed 03 Nov 2010 17:15:37 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=87#comment197 197. davmcnIf clegg and Cable were honourable men they would resign.Over the years Lib/Dems have bemoaned the low respect that the population had for politicians.Hmmm... how can you have respect for politicians who make a big issue about signing a pledge to fight against any increase in tuition fees and promise to abolish tuition fees completely. Then within months backtrack on all that they said. They even had the cheek to challenge other politicians about signing this pledge.197 davmcnYes I am proud of you. Wed 03 Nov 2010 17:12:36 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=87#comment196 FF 195, I just replied to a Lib Dem email sent from HQ about the higher education deal by saying RUBBISH! Looter would be proud of me. Wed 03 Nov 2010 16:17:33 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=87#comment195 FF 195, I was feeling very generous. Wed 03 Nov 2010 16:15:40 GMT+1 Fearless Fred http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=86#comment194 david (194) That's generous of you; that's two more "blahs" than I would've bothered with... Wed 03 Nov 2010 12:29:05 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=86#comment193 JTRK 193, Blah blah blah blah blah... Wed 03 Nov 2010 09:21:15 GMT+1 JohnTheRedKnows http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=85#comment192 The credit crunch appeared to crunch the rich and the poor alike, but in reality the poor suffered whiilst the rich didn't.Just when the crunch was beginning to bite, Blairite Brown's Darling, the Chancellor, and M.A. King, BoE Governor, put shedloads of money in the hands of the rich for them to make...shedloads of money with. By the useful accounting device of writing off a series of enormous losses that the rich had made by selling them to the government at full cost price, the rich were able to ennrich themselves further whilst appearing to suffer like the rest of us. (The credit swap, collateral debt, etc, losses to one set of rich parasites were of course GAINS to others)With their losses made good by government, the re-capitalised rich bid the stock market back up from 3,500 in April of last year to 5,700 now - a gain of some 60 percent. The collapse in stock prices occassioned by the crunch was accounted part of the loss made good by government whilst every gain in the investment casinos were accounted belonging to financiers.It was a nice touch that the recovered stock markets were a few percentage points below the previous highs. Oh, how those rich must have SUFFERED!Now goverment is implementing the political stage of the economic crunch.It's what you should expect from the Tories. No wonder the Lib Dems collaborating gets them called Vichy.That we are not in power is Labour's chance to come clean in their duplicity of making the rich richer and the poor suffer, which IS the fully functioning market system.Duplicity, OR the Fed, Bush, right wing Republicans and financiers so mesmerised the Labour government that they didn't know what they were doing. Sad if true, 'cos the instinct of Old Labour, from outide the loop, was that the rich were benefiting hand over fist, short term and long term, from the off, whilst the poor were getting it in the neck from the moment that the first attacks on them, the sub prime mortgagees made homeless, to now, when the social cleansing is directly political.The money will keep going to the rich until we decide to tax redistributively. And make no mistake reflating the economy is the only way to settle debt. So let's do it by fiscal policies, instead of giving money to the rich who'll just enrich themselves and export capital in search of higher returns abroad. Tue 02 Nov 2010 23:15:58 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=85#comment191 Ln 191, Scotland, Wales, and N Ireland don't count. When did the Lib Dems have the opportunity to hold a referendum? Tue 02 Nov 2010 16:46:39 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=84#comment190 187. davmcnLabour referendums, let's see well there was the EU referendum in the 1970s, then there were the devoluton referendums in Scotland and Wales and of course the Northern Ireland referendum.Hmmm...how many referendums were there under the Tories or Lib/Dems?I can't remember any, there may have been local referendums about bin collections, road schemes etc but nothing major.Oh yes the GLC was scrapped by the Tories without a referendum and Labour re-established a London mayor with a referendum. So it ain't Labour that has been shy of referendums. Tue 02 Nov 2010 11:30:31 GMT+1 The Intermittent Horse http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=84#comment189 Big Sister (186) - There will be no problems with the language. Both militaries have been watching old episodes of 'Allo 'Allo and have agreed to adopt the speech patterns of Officer Crabtree. Simples."I am Officer Crabtree. I wark for British Ontelligence bot I have disgeezed maseelf as a poloceman so I am oble to move aboot with complate frodom. I was piising by the door, at half pist sox, when I heard two shats. You are holding in your hand a smoking goon; you are clearly the guilty potty." Tue 02 Nov 2010 11:27:47 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=83#comment188 186. Big SisterWe have enough misunderstandings with the Americans and we supposedly speak the same language. Tue 02 Nov 2010 11:20:21 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=83#comment187 On Coppers last night Channel 4 http://www.channel4.com/programmes/coppers/4od#3134011was a total loser Danny who at the end repeated a poem he says he penned whilst in jail, about 45 minutes in.If he put his poem to a rap beat he might be on to a winner.Rather strong language though.Don't the police have to put with some dregs? Tue 02 Nov 2010 11:18:31 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=83#comment186 Ln 185, When did Labour have any referendums? (yes, pedants, I know) Tue 02 Nov 2010 11:03:43 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=82#comment185 I think there could be a new comedy programme in the making, Looternite. Imagine the potential for misunderstandings as the two nations, both of which have form for not speaking the language of the other, 'co-operate' in the field of battle. Or even, for that matter, on the parade ground. Any script writers amongst us? :o) Tue 02 Nov 2010 10:05:29 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=82#comment184 So Cameron is going to sign a defence treaty with the French, er shouldn't we have a referendum before the government signs any more treaties. I thought that was what they were saying before the election.Still I suppose, the French can run the kitchens for the British Army. Tue 02 Nov 2010 08:53:22 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=81#comment183 What depressing programmes tonight. Despatches, Panorama and Coppers. Mon 01 Nov 2010 23:42:37 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=81#comment182 Very good, David! :o) Mon 01 Nov 2010 16:41:04 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=80#comment181 JTRK 181, They forgot the phone number. Mon 01 Nov 2010 16:18:14 GMT+1 JohnTheRedKnows http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=80#comment180 Missing so much news at the moment!Please help! The bombs posted from Yemen (?):I've heard/read 'Well made' 'Sophisticated''Viable' and details like semtex type explosive, zinc oxide fuse and SIM card ignition. Which leaves me puzzled. Why/How did we escape the detontations? Mon 01 Nov 2010 15:53:47 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=79#comment179 Edwardjeckle, 168Na, your just being silly now. Rather concerning, you seem to have worked out all the facts and figures to a pedantic degree. You don't don't have a secret manifesto do you?How do you know when a politician is lying? Mon 01 Nov 2010 08:12:23 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=79#comment178 Mindclearly,Taking a look at the government front bench - you couldn't write it. Mon 01 Nov 2010 07:59:59 GMT+1 Mindclearly http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=79#comment177 I'm thinking of writting a comedy on 14millionaires and their approach to managing the welfare of a country if they were in charge. Mon 01 Nov 2010 07:44:37 GMT+1 JohnTheRedKnows http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=78#comment176 There are of course two sorts of prosperity..There is prosperity in scarcity and there is prosperity in plenty.Under prosperity in scarcity the rich get richer building up their war chests by asset inflation. Wages are depressed by the unemployment. The economy booms, but in luxury goods - second homes, bigger and fancier cars, expensive holodays and hobbies.The social atmosphere is one of desparation on the part of the poor, the unemployment, the sick and the old and of arrogant exuberance on the part of the rich, the financiers, the industrialists, the bankers, the land and property owners.Yep, a Thatcher - Blair - style boom.Propserity in plenty has a different atmosphere. The bossess and owners complain about the low rate of profit (Let them!) Houses, homes, are built, roads improved, schools rebuilt, automated factories opened, doctors and nurses and teachers trained, railways reopened. And so that people can afford the very prosperity they are producing, TAXATION is highly REDISTRIBUTIVE.The bus company owners complain about the taxes but ordinary people can afford the fares!The Condems are aiming, EVENTUALLY, for prosperity driven by scarcity.We need prosperity driven by plenty and by widespread wellbeing and affluence. Sun 31 Oct 2010 18:39:36 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=78#comment175 This post has been Removed Sun 31 Oct 2010 16:27:10 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=77#comment174 172. lucien desgaiThanks for the link. So back to "good old days" when drug companies could charge what they like and doctors prescribe over priced medication that may not be any better than cheaper alternatives.Oh happy days, for big pharma at least. Sat 30 Oct 2010 14:16:25 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=77#comment173 On "Any Questions" Sayeeda Warsi spoke about the extremists of the "English Defence League" what she did not mention was during the run up to the election she was verbally abused and was hit by eggs when she visited Luton.It was not the EDL who attacked her but members of a muslim group, apparently she is not a proper muslim in their opinion. Sat 30 Oct 2010 13:42:11 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=76#comment172 You may be interested in this article about the Housing benefits cuts:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/10/30/condem-cuts-will-target-families-all-over-uk-in-work-or-not-115875-22675645/Daily Mirror research shows that the vast majority of people affected by the housing benefits cuts are in fact working families. Of course they are low wage earners and so its OK for the ConDems to give them a good kicking after all its apparently "fair".We are all in this together. Sat 30 Oct 2010 13:35:22 GMT+1 lucien desgai http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=76#comment171 It seems that the money saved by throwing poor people out of their homes is going to be put toward corporate welfare for big pharma.http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/oct/29/nice-to-lose-new-drug-powerIf this report is true the government is going to abolish the organisation which deploys evidence based research and analysis to stop the drug companies helping themselves to NHS funds ... at the same time it is handing NHS purchasing authority to private healthcare companies linked to the same big pharmaceutical corporations.When this was tried in the US, the Medicare system was ripped off by the very same companies now lining up to offer budget management services to British GPs. But I don't expect evidence to get in the way of the tories and libdems shovelling our money up to multinational corporations. Sat 30 Oct 2010 12:50:08 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=75#comment170 Looter (170)Agreed. I purposely didn't want to watch the program as, I felt there had been too much depressing stuff just lately. My hard drive is full at present.As I have listened to the arguments and reasons for the (I won't call it reform as, to my mind, reform means going to something better as an alternative) welfare cuts, the more I have seen through the ideology which is put forward as progressive and fair.For instance, the thing about people not being able to afford to live in London due to 'poor' people taking the housing, subsidised by the government. Where though is the credible evidence that when this cleansing (and it is cleansing) has taken place, that shows those people who can't afford housing due to the 'poor' will be able to afford to rent/buy the properties cleansed of the 'poor'? Would they want to live in those cleansed properties as, as far as I can see the vast majority will be among communities and tower blocks the aspiring classes wish to avoid anyway?Secondly, any fool can see through the prejudice of making work pay by cutting poverty level benefits. Follow this logic through and the government become no more than a national devious gang master who blackmail their workers by keeping them on perpetually low pay, thus, keeping them in perpetual hock. The vast majority of media reports conveniently ignore the 'bleeding obvious'. Namely, work don't pay for many people due to low wages, not generous benefits.Thirdly, those that prostitute the propaganda that the rich will be paying proportionately more than the poor in these cuts are liars. People on JSA get will lose 10% of their housing benefit after a year, on top of the VAT rises, on top of the withdrawal of services the well off middle class rarely use. This is on top of the cap on housing benefit they already get. So, add all the percentages up and you will find the poorest are not only the worst hit, there the worst hit by a long margin. Sat 30 Oct 2010 10:52:12 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=75#comment169 Did anyone watch "A Life Without Work" on BBC 2 tonight. I watched the first episode last week also.I think the ConDems need to show a bit of humanity before they trash the welfare state.My advice to Clegg, Cable, Osborne and Cameron is lift your eyes away from the bloody spreadsheet and take a look at the bottom rungs of society.The LibDems used to have a social conscience but it just goes to show the power of 12 pieces of silver to change people.Back to the Nasty Party when the Tories knew the price of everything and the value of nothing. Fri 29 Oct 2010 23:37:03 GMT+1 JohnTheRedKnows http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=74#comment168 Those who know me, know that I am not an incautious man.The opinion I want to express however may seem incautious, foolhardy etc.But I think not:The Labour Party should oppose each and every one of the cuts. the atmosphere surrounding the economy is sufficiently optimistic about future eventualities, that such opposition would be met by a surprising degree of support.In the context of this small world of PM and the PM blog,the activity around Upshares Downshares demonstrates exactly the consciousness that I claim is very widespread.When there is a crisis we all play our parts, all have our agendas, all hope for what we hope for and work for it as best we can.Of course there will be voices that are over-optimistic just as there are over-pessimistic voices, some optimists hoping nothing will change, pessimists that everything will. Others, knowing the response to the crisis IS the crisis, hoping to prevent the solution, diverge to over-optimism and to over-pessimism.But we are not in that sort of crisis now, and my view is not one of strategic over-optimism. The support that my view has is buried, of course, both in the country and in debate conducted by the politial class in the media, by the same thing. It is the non-question, 'What would you DO?' It is that very question that prevents the development in all our minds of the idea that no cuts are needed.And oh. boy, is it a KNOWN feeling! Whether on the left of the Labour Party, the right of the Tory Party or in the stuttering embarrassment of Liberal Democrats with consciences.All know the 200 billion of QE merely reinflated the assets of the rich(Upsharing). All know the banks didn't need the 350 billion of 'support'. They were solvent anyway. Their cries were of self inflicted pain from their own deliberate asset destruction. The farce of governments proving they could create financial assets faster than banks could destroy them was born of the belief that there WAS a crisis. The crisis was designed to impoverish working people and it is doing that via government action, now.The spirit of Upshares demands we oppose all cuts. Cuts are the last vestige of the purpose of the crisis. If we know the crisis to be a farce then cuts are an irrelevant cruelty.So, in reply to the question, I say 'Restore the cuts. Not even our most vociferous debtors still believe the 'crisis'-makers will win and the crisis do its job of our impoverishment'. Unless we agree to cuts. Fri 29 Oct 2010 22:37:25 GMT+1 elcej http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=74#comment167 143. (not)funnyJoedunnfollowing on from your highly amusing post at 143.....On this day in 2020;The communist government elected in 2015 have cancelled all further elections and brought in the military to protect their position in power - just like every other quasi-communist country around the world. The mass emigration of UK residents to foreign lands has caused a crash in the housing market as supply far outstrips demand. Many low paid workers that purchased properties towards the end of the 2010's now find themselves with unmanageable negative equity. With the Bank of England's base interest rate now soaring to an unimaginable 34% the rate of home repossessions has soared to an all time high.Speaking on 'Radio 4Commrade', Ivor Goodidea attacked the communist regime saying "All foreign investment in our country has gone. So too have the vast majority of all the UK entrepreneurs that created the jobs for people. There seems no point in putting in extra effort now since any extra money you make will be taken away by this communist regime. No sooner than people spend a bit of money to make their house look really nice it is then taken away by the government to give it away to someone else. What's the point in trying these days?"Many international commentators have drawn parallels with the Mugabe government of Zimbabwe where GNP dived and interest rates soared. The investors in the UK had their assets taken by the government and now there are few businesses to employ people. The poor got poorer and the government was not able to raise enough money through taxes to help the poor and unemployed.However, UK President Victor Iamright defended the state of the country. "the ruling government's main priority is to ensure money is taken from those that have it to those that don't. It is totally immoral for people to live in big houses and take foreign holidays while national unemployment stands at 25%. I am sure we can achieve equality between rich and poor but if not then it is better that everyone is poor" Fri 29 Oct 2010 21:04:52 GMT+1 Alan_N http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=74#comment166 They do. And it's much cheaper to refill the bomb after it has gone off than to buy a new bomb. Fri 29 Oct 2010 16:44:47 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=73#comment165 Ink toner cartridge converted into a bomb? Do they come in a choice of colors? Fri 29 Oct 2010 16:08:07 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=73#comment164 Ln 164, Ask Private Eye. Fri 29 Oct 2010 15:55:49 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=72#comment163 Just been watching Question Time.Now I have a question, Is Ed Davey related to Wayne Rooney. They sure look alike. Thu 28 Oct 2010 23:10:20 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=72#comment162 162. JohnTheRedKnowsNo it aint cos it's wot I speak. :-) Thu 28 Oct 2010 22:58:42 GMT+1 JohnTheRedKnows http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=71#comment161 161 The British (Celtic)language I'm learning is the wonder of irregularity after irregularity, a poetic prose, whilst English is the regimenting language of class oppression. Thu 28 Oct 2010 22:19:19 GMT+1 JohnTheRedKnows http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=71#comment160 It is wonderful to be learning a British language that is not constrained by the appalling Euro-centric imperious academics who straightjacket English in the late 18th and early 19th centuries.Expertise in strict English is like a dog walking on its hind legs. Clever but not to be encouraged.And marvellous irregularities emerge, infact the irregularities constitute the norm of the tongue.The worst thing about the hind leg walking is when it is used as an instrument of class oppression.When it is used in that way it is pointless and cruel. Thu 28 Oct 2010 18:53:48 GMT+1 JohnTheRedKnows http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=70#comment159 The social cleansing that the Cable-Cameron-Clegg-Osbourne government is creating is evil.It is of course a fine case of the Lib Dem Con government wanting to eliminate the last vestiges of social integration and equality - to complete the near-complete inequality created by the market system. Thu 28 Oct 2010 18:45:06 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=70#comment158 Thank you to Looter, Big Sis, and madness. I agree with what you say Too.Joe (;-) Thu 28 Oct 2010 15:51:06 GMT+1 MoC http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=70#comment157 @157 - lol, Looter - been working hard for a bit and got out of the habit of checking in here - but needed tocome back to share the FTSE story above.To sum up my impressions of the ConDems over the past few weeks:Cameron at PMQ's - arrogant, narcissistic and lacking credibilityOsborne at CSR - disgustingClegg, Cable et al - spinelessThe whole shower of them - lacking in depth and intelligence.I've been off looking at new businesses to invest in. Saw a wide range of management teams - some pertinent lessons about the state of the nation and the business world. Thu 28 Oct 2010 15:35:52 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=69#comment156 156. MadnessOfCrowdsYes I heard that on News Quiz.I've not seen much of you about lately. I always read you posts and usually agree with the comments. Some people have ditched their principles and are whole hog signed up to whatever the Tories want. Whoops I used Shamron's favourite word. Thu 28 Oct 2010 15:25:34 GMT+1 MoC http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=69#comment155 Looternite@155 - you've been reading my mind again.I liked J. Hardy's portrayal on Saturday's NQ of Vince Cable as Mr. Barraclough in Porridge "oh no, Fletcher, you mustn't.... you have? Oh, well I suppose it won't do TOO much harm..." Thu 28 Oct 2010 15:19:10 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=68#comment154 I understand that Vince Cable chickened out of giving a talk last night at Oxford University.He cancelled because students were planning a demonstration.Hmmmm... uptill 6 months ago he would have been the "darling" of the students and universities. I wonder what has changed? :-) Thu 28 Oct 2010 14:58:09 GMT+1 MoC http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=68#comment153 Perhaps PM could do an item on how many 'units' of social housing could be built if the FTSE directors gave up their 55% earnings increase and it was used instead for societal good. Of course, we'd need to offset lost VAT on Cristal champagne, expensive watches and Spearmint Rhino revenue. Thu 28 Oct 2010 13:42:16 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=67#comment152 150. The Intermittent HorseI thought that we were all supposed to be sounding the same and regional accents were decreasing. Well that's what the experts have been saying.Let's say goodbye and good riddance to the "u" in mould. :-) Thu 28 Oct 2010 13:29:15 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=67#comment151 148. Anna CardiumSorry, I am not familiar with the item and so the spelling of it was not strait forward. :-) Thu 28 Oct 2010 13:25:12 GMT+1 mittfh http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=66#comment150 This has been doing the rounds for a while - it's usually attributed to Mark Twain, although doubts have been cast as to its true authorship...A Plan for the Improvement of English SpellingFor example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s," and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and Iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all.Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai Iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c," "y" and "x"--bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez--tu riplais "ch," "sh," and "th" rispektivli.Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld. Thu 28 Oct 2010 12:41:01 GMT+1 The Intermittent Horse http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=66#comment149 (142) - But then we moight ave difrint spellins depenunt on wot pairt of the contree we lift in! Thu 28 Oct 2010 12:07:09 GMT+1 MoC http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=66#comment148 143. funnyJoedunnThank you - joyous Thu 28 Oct 2010 11:56:00 GMT+1 Anna Cardium http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=65#comment147 142. Looternite"archaic straight jackets"Really! It's spelled 'straitjackets'!Standards, dear boy, standards! Thu 28 Oct 2010 11:54:52 GMT+1 MoC http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=65#comment146 FTSE 100 directors saw their total earnings soar by an average of 55 per cent during the past year in a startling recovery from short-lived restraint during the recession, according to research to be published on Friday.No comment necessary. Thu 28 Oct 2010 11:54:24 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=64#comment145 Unfortunately, we can't turn the clock back on the sale of council houses - a policy that I have also considered barking mad (and morally wrong). But I do wonder if it wouldn't be possible to look at the rents that are being charged by private landlords. I know this would be complex, and understand that, if unfairly hit, landlords would withdraw from their role - which could create another problem. Perhaps some research needs to be done on how many landlords are charging rents that represent more than a fair return upon their investment, taking into account, of course, the level of risk that they bear. My preferred option, however, would be a return to a system whereby there is affordable rented property, not available for purchase (and not automatically transferable to other family members, btw). Thu 28 Oct 2010 10:30:30 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=64#comment144 143. funnyJoedunnMade me smile old friend. :-)Housing benefit is one of the unintended consequences of the Tory policy of the 80s, to flog off the social housing stock. Of course, the most desirable properties went first and in “posh” areas, there is virtually no social housing.I know of someone who is in receipt of housing benefit and it is paid to enable him, his partner and their children to live in an ex-council house. Since the great Tory idea of the 80s has gone bad, can someone ask the ConDem government how they see the effects of their policy in 10 – 20 years time? All they do is sneer and dis anyone who says that this policy is likely to have dire social consequences.The very people who do the minimum wage work in these posh areas will have to spend even more of their income on travel and spend even less of their time with their kids.Tory and ConDem philosophy appears to be “That’s your fault you are poor so tough”. Thu 28 Oct 2010 10:19:20 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=63#comment143 Very good, Joe! :) Sounds like Ivor Sleazinsky is one to watch. Thu 28 Oct 2010 09:45:15 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=63#comment142 On this day in 2015;The newly elected communist government is about to pass legislation that will see many people from the most affluent parts of our inner cities having to down-size, move out, or risk losing their homes altogether. Reports indicate they will swept out to the more run down, higher crime and poverty stricken estates on the margins. Their present homes will be ear marked for occupancy by those who strongly agree with the new legislation and sympathizers of the new government. The new legislation will bring in a statutory limit on the size and value of properties that individual families enjoy regardless of their needs to occupy such properties. Many owners and tenants of penthouses, and Thames waterfront properties, along with mansion living residents of Kensington, Chelsea, Westminster and other affluent areas say,'this is nothing short of the highland clearances experience'. Critics have also stated 'its nothing short of ethnic cleansing in an attempt to get communist party voters into the areas they need to take full control of'. It is thought that many inner London properties will be converted from what is described as inappropriate affluence and size to more realistically priced flats and apartments. Government spokes person comrade Ivor sleazinsky, stated, 'why should it be that hard working families who get up early, doing a full days hard work can't afford to live in a place where others just inherit the title deeds from there parents'. 'They have to walk down the same streets but can't afford to live there'. He went on to say, 'our policies are about fairness and the broadest shoulders carrying the most burden' Comrade Sleazinsky said, 'there will be funds available in helping the smooth eviction of these people'. 'Its all about giving people the incentive and help they need to come into the real world, perhaps some of these, in future may have to catch a bus as, no doubt 4X4s will be inappropriate in the places where they might find themselves living. Comrade Sleazinsky went on, 'We belive this is fair and will not be changing our policy'. One Westminster resident of a 5 million pound property was asked for a way forward and said. 'Well, I popped over to downing street, politely knocked on the door and said, look here old chap can't we have just have a quiet pleasant chat about this old boy'? As yet, he awaits a reply. Thu 28 Oct 2010 09:35:47 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=62#comment141 Following on from the Today prog this morning I Googled Professor John Wells.I found this link: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/08/english_spelling/It's about time we let our spelling go free from the archaic straight jackets that mean our spoken language bears little resemblance to the written language. Thu 28 Oct 2010 08:44:46 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=62#comment140 140. Anne PAh yes, those were the days of youthful optimism.Disposable knickers.... By the look of some of the underwear young ladies wear nowadays I cannot imagine them standing up to a blast in a washing machine.That’s a point though, where is my jet pack. Thu 28 Oct 2010 08:34:36 GMT+1 Anne P http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=62#comment139 Looternite, or just a set of aspirations fed by the same happy false optimism that was going to give us all free electricity, abolish all illness and have us wearing disposable knickers. Thu 28 Oct 2010 08:17:47 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=61#comment138 138. JohnTheRedKnowsThanks for the link. In 1968 I was 18 and we were looking forward to a future of peace and retireing at 50.What happened?Oh yes, Ted Heath and the Tories winning in 1970 perhaps! Thu 28 Oct 2010 07:59:27 GMT+1 JohnTheRedKnows http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=61#comment137 YesterdayAll the Trotskyists were locked awayNow it looks as though they're here to stay.Relax, it's just a song.Anyway it was the anniverary of the 1968 demonstration against the Vietnam War, when London bridges were red with the banners of the demonstrators.A summary of the year is here:http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/2008/05/1968_the_doors_mistaken_for_political_extremists.html(without the murderous intent of some of the opponents of the demo during the run up)Anyway, Ralph was compulsory reading then.Ed was at the planning stage.Why did it all go wrong for them?The wrong class saying the right thing and the right class saying the wrong thing. You can't have revolution from the top down, but you can have reaction that way round. Wed 27 Oct 2010 23:37:15 GMT+1 JohnTheRedKnows http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=60#comment136 The Guardian has caught up with the fashion of quoting Warren Buffett. Sweet dear old fahioned things (though on the money on the Lib Dem Con fiasco government), so often 20 years behind, but still: 'I try to buy stock in businesses that are so wonderful that an idiot can run them. Because sooner or later, one will'.Which seems to be the dual of the epigram that most captures the spirit of capitalism: Any fool can save a system that is ao awful it emands that the rich dominate the poor. Simples. They make the rich richer and more powerful and the poor poorer and weaker. And we produce queues of them. You know who they are/were. Wed 27 Oct 2010 23:07:14 GMT+1 JohnTheRedKnows http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=60#comment135 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/beach_13.shtml#P102344177Excellent re-cycling of an old joke, kindly humour.There's a current advert for anemergency service at the mo', which sports another of the original comedy team.But these reprises in their exactly opposite ways remind one of how laden with class prejudice the team were, their humour little omre than the constant re-iteration of ... class prejudices.Well done TIH for escaping, nay transcending, the tradition.The arrogance of some of the original team reminds me of how much of it is still to be found in British public life among the self-professed talented. Wed 27 Oct 2010 21:52:13 GMT+1 JohnTheRedKnows http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=59#comment134 So, expecting to get them cut by George, the public sector and the building industry agreed to finalise all their contracts outstanding by ... October.A little creative accounting was required to make it all legal which upped the growth rate nicely thank you contributing a solid quarter of the Q3 growth. That, plus the over rated rating agency's re-rate of...us, is good PR stuff for everyone to enjoy except Mervyn King.For he has the problem of persuading us that it is reasonable to start up the printing presses gain and give us more Quantitative Easing.Which is what, no doubt, George has charged him with.Because that is how the Lib Dem Con government is treating the economy. The QE money will pour into the usual short term stock boom, so beneficial to the rich, whilst the poor of the economy, the worst off, below the average, 60 percent of us, will get even worst off. Our own recession continued whilst the rich prosper .So QE is on the cards. It's the way we bribe the rich not to get their chums in government (the Cabinet Lib Dem Con millionaires) not to hit us any harder. Wed 27 Oct 2010 21:47:58 GMT+1 Alan_N http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=59#comment133 133 - think of it as performing a civic service!;-) Wed 27 Oct 2010 20:19:29 GMT+1 Stewart_M http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=58#comment132 Alan I am one of the small businesses that will have to implement this. Just an extra layer of admin I could do without. Wed 27 Oct 2010 20:17:48 GMT+1 Alan_N http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=58#comment131 Not at all, which is why I think it might be a good idea for a prohibition against pension holidays or 'borrowing' being enshined in primary legislation. Wed 27 Oct 2010 12:23:10 GMT+1 Stewart_M http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=58#comment130 Alan, and you trust the Government to not "borrow" this new money pot? Wed 27 Oct 2010 11:58:26 GMT+1 Alan_N http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=57#comment129 No. NI goes to fund current pensions although it's often portrayed as a savings plan for your own pension. Wed 27 Oct 2010 10:52:52 GMT+1 Stewart_M http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=57#comment128 NEST! Mmmm. This idea of a national pension fund. Employers and employees to contribute. Thought that this was partly what National Insurance is for. Wed 27 Oct 2010 10:44:17 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=56#comment127 Looternite, I think the SERPS bit will enhance your pension, even now. Not much, but a little. Tue 26 Oct 2010 21:56:16 GMT+1 Stewart_M http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=56#comment126 Looterite, Yes you should be entitled to a decent retirement. Tue 26 Oct 2010 21:02:47 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=55#comment125 Oh by the way I retire in 2015 which will mean that as I left school at age 15, I would have been paying in for 50 bloody* years.I think I am entitled to a decent retirement don't you.*other words available * Tue 26 Oct 2010 18:44:09 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/10/the_furrowed_brow_79.shtml?page=55#comment124 Pensions:During the 1970s there was cross party support for the pension reform at that time.I attended meetings whereby us in our 20s would have decent pensions that would be in 2 parts.A basic pension and a second pension based on earnings called SERPS. All the parties, the Tories, Liberals and Labour all hailed it as a fantastic reform that would end pensioner poverty. However, in 1979 Thatcher's Tory government decided due to party political dogma that state provision of pensions was wrong and so from the early 80s it was to be private pension provision. Then we had the pension mis-selling fiasco (kept quiet by the Tory biased media I notice).So instead of state pension provision via the basic and earnings related pensions being updated throughout the 80s we had the government turning a blind eye to the shenanigans going on ie pension contributions holidays by employers although these contributions were part of employement contracts.Anyhow, it looks like all my payments into the SERPS funds are going to count for nothing when I retire.Have I been cheated or swindled or just plain lied to? Tue 26 Oct 2010 18:41:30 GMT+1