Comments for en-gb 30 Sat 30 May 2015 20:32:26 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at cosmo STV is not the establish a new mechanism we must first establish what it is that is so wrong with the present system.I have identified 3 issues which allow the present system to abuse the electorate.1. a prospective MP is selected for his/her loyalty to the party. not the country, the electorate or the area for which they intent to represent. ( the safe seat ) once 'elected' the now MP works for the party. not the electorate,the country nor the area. the interest of the political party in paramount. a bit like a gang member jumping to the demands of the gang leaders.2. industries is not represented in parliament, only represented by organisation that are kept out of parliament. And can only be heard by striking, by holding the country to ransom. neither activity not in anybodies interest.3. It's a job. being an MP is a job. and like any other job you should be held responsible if you do not live up to it and conversely be promoted if you do good. not secure regardless for 5 years.if anyone can comment or add to this list....please do so. Sun 02 May 2010 22:48:45 GMT+1 GotToTheEnd That's STV is it? At which the mind boggles.'t find this one on the BBC anywhere: days to go. Maybe his secret is he has a sense of split second timing. Sun 02 May 2010 20:04:39 GMT+1 cosmo o.k. so we are all fed up with the politicians, but not democracy. The politics of politicians has turned the stomachs of the electorate. We therefore need a new idea. A machine that will not spill revulsion into the hearts and minds of the people it's supposed to serve.the present mechanism allows a party to become a government with the least amount of votes. The political parties like the system because it takes the least amount of work to become a government. the hard part is to catch the right votes in the right areas. This is not democracy. this is political party manipulation of the electorate. Sun 02 May 2010 19:43:41 GMT+1 lucien desgai 113 SidYes ... but if everyone who votes Labour, Conservative or LibDem sees the Natural Law party as the middle ground then we'll all be yogic flying. Sun 02 May 2010 12:25:05 GMT+1 Sindy Interesting."Happily, a far better system is available, the single transferable vote (STV). In this system each voter has as many votes as there are candidates in the constituency. He or she can plump for a single candidate, vote for all the candidates of their party or choose among them and among other parties. So a Conservative could choose between a Tory who has a sane attitude to the EU or one who foams at the mouth at the mention of the French. A Labour voter could back a candidate who supports a serious thinker about education, such as Barry Sheerman, rather than one who admires the brutalising, centralising policies of Ed Balls. Supporters of hunting could vote for brave Kate Hoey in the shires of south-west London and give their other votes to the local Tories or Liberals." Sun 02 May 2010 12:16:59 GMT+1 Mindclearly EE - The poor blighters, I saw a brief excert from the new but didn't realise it was twins.Someone should of persuaded her to use Oliver and George, as there are a pair of twins...... Sun 02 May 2010 11:34:38 GMT+1 GotToTheEnd Yep, with a foreign policy of savage war on peasants and workers and a domestic aim of embourgeoisification and Thatcher emulation. Sun 02 May 2010 09:35:26 GMT+1 Big Jim 109. ExpectingtheEnd". They ignore the fact that the crisis is wholly one of the bourgeoisie. Banksters, the political elite, the redundant upper middle class, the class with nothing to say, nothing more to do, for anyone butb their own members."The clss embraced by Blair and Broon. Sat 01 May 2010 23:21:18 GMT+1 GotToTheEnd Sounds like the anti-Labour coalition has won.The thing they have in common is their reaction to the crisis.. They ignore the fact that the crisis is wholly one of the bourgeoisie. Banksters, the political elite, the redundant upper middle class, the class with nothing to say, nothing more to do, for anyone butb their own members.They also offer a very similar solution. They invert social reality by conniving in the capitalist ocncepion of what the problems are.1. Workers getting too much in terms of governement services2. Trade Unions should not fight employerr' pay cuts and deterioration of workers' conditions.3. Benefit cuts and work fare (may) have to be used to get young workers to accept lousy jobs with lousy pay.But they secretly acknowledge the crisis is theirs by the compromise they offer.Instead of telling working people the truth. 'The time has come for you to take the leading roles in this country', instead,they offer a long infinite regress of a road that steers them away from power!A little less taxation (a lot less by the same policy for the very rich.Schools that in 15 years will have produced their first university students.Aculturalisation as a reward for not taking power. Hoodies, ther 'underlass' becoming a little bit more like David and Nicholas.Sounds good? Not to me, more like a mess of potage.For the Tory - Lib Dem 'offer' is 'Get lost for another generation, it's still us in charge. Here are some cheap baubles in return. A bit of irrelevant education The sort designed to help the rich protect their privileges, suitably adapted to mystify but impress working people. Less tax to pay but far fewer services and even less right than now to really negotiate for higher wages. And 5-10 years of signals from Nick and Dave about what wonderful people ordinary people, the salt of the earth who oblige Nick's and Dave's social class by not taking power away from them'. A cheap trick inaugurating a priceless tradegy. Sat 01 May 2010 21:59:54 GMT+1 GotToTheEnd Me carn' belive itMe carn' beive itA mother has called her twins David and Cameron? It's the Lib Dem mum's twin who is brother to Nicholas I worry about. Sat 01 May 2010 21:13:55 GMT+1 GotToTheEnd Looked in wonder at the 80 Goya prints the Manchester City Art Gallery has as I though of the election........and the warWith titles like 'Que pico de oro' - His beak is SO golden - of a parrot whose words have transfixed his human audience. 'There was nothing to be done and he died'. and 'What a warrior', also from Los desastres della guerra, the first describing the inevitability of violent death in war, the second bitterly ironic at the soldier cutlassing an easy victim - a scarecrow(Los caprichos provided the parrot)There were others, Truth Died (Murro le verdad) amd Will she revive? also about truth.And the wonderful Sure Folly which has a white horse balanced on a tightrope. The rope is lying on the ground.Whether war is the extension of politics or not (it is in fact its negation) bad politics and war do seem to be criticisable with a similar bitter irony. (In kind, not degree)Amd it is surely an irony too that poppies of all flowers seem to have halted the killing in Afghanistan, we're told. Temporarily. Sat 01 May 2010 18:34:22 GMT+1 GotToTheEnd 99Mot this hotel.You don't get breakfast. You clean up your own room and all the power you use comes from a treadmill generator - self driven.Two of those claims are true. 100As for revolution in a tent, you remind me of our Free School Camp days when it bucketed from one day to the next and we lived on tuna and oatmeal cakes.101I think that joke needs a re-write. Sat 01 May 2010 18:04:22 GMT+1 davmcn Ln 104, I think she only does TV. Sat 01 May 2010 15:34:31 GMT+1 Looternite 103. lucien desgaiGreat to hear you are enjoying yourself and best of luck in your job.Communications have been restored and apparently they are looking for someone from St Albans. Sat 01 May 2010 11:53:26 GMT+1 lucien desgai 102Hello Looternite!I finally escaped unemployment last month consequently I have vastly fewer time available for posting here. I'm certainly keeping well and hope you are too .... have they restored communications links to Luton yet? Sat 01 May 2010 09:48:24 GMT+1 Looternite lucien desgaiAh not seen much of you about lately.Hope you have been keeping well. :-) Sat 01 May 2010 09:43:56 GMT+1 lucien desgai ... nor standing in the rain in a Mac. Sat 01 May 2010 09:40:26 GMT+1 lucien desgai 99 BigSisThe People's Mandate can't be expected to fight on behalf of the proletariat in a tent. Sat 01 May 2010 09:30:49 GMT+1 Big Sister EtE: You're in a hotel? Isn't that rather, well, bourgeois? ;o) Sat 01 May 2010 09:20:54 GMT+1 GotToTheEnd 96, part (3)A secret vote for a certain almost touching, almost gritty, trying-so-hard-to-get-it-right, dully determined, justice seeking economic practicality.For a (c)rumpled business suit rather than matinee idol lounge suits. Sat 01 May 2010 09:14:44 GMT+1 Big Jim In case y'all missed it,A jaundiced view;-) Sat 01 May 2010 08:55:31 GMT+1 GotToTheEnd people but this is going to be four or five short ones strung together.Cos I'm in a downtown hotel where the wifi is strictly iffy.Well, first to the link. The 2003 total wealth is 3.8 trillion.If the National Debt is a trillion, the wealthiest 10 percent own by contrast 1.9 trillion.The grossed up figures currently talked about are 35 thousand per household for the Debt itself and 90 thousand each including pension and PFI liabilities.If one in ten paid these numbers off that'd be 350 and 900 thousand each. If one in a hundred paid it all off that'd be 3.5 million and 9 million each. By which I mean that's what they'd pay if the richest discharged the National and aggregated debts.Now my view is that the reason the National Debt (and the others) exists is because the rich have been using their wealth to make sure they don't pay the taxes they should.The National and other debts, are, then, what the rich here owe the rest of us.Since half the National Debt is owned abroad the wealthy must be holding half of it themselves. That must be held by the wealthiest 50 percent. That alone is clearly half the National Debt. Then if you look at their share holdings, owned entirely by the wealthiest 50 per cent, that is another trillion and a quarter.By sequestering just the paper assets of the richest 50 per cent the national debt and then some, would be covered.They need it for their pensions? But Comrades we are all in this together.----------------------------------------------------------------Under this current system every vote appears to count. For the percentage as well as the number of seats each party gets is politically important.-----------------------------------------------------------------Could Brown get a secret vote. Like Thatcher used to. And Major. And BlairFor different reasons. In Browns case cos no one wants to admit they'd vote for such a staid prosaic guy when there's Nick and Dave to plump for------------------------------------------------------------------The centre ground party is the one that should be in ajority EITHER to the left of it OR to the right of it.government. It is the only one that wouldn't be consistently defeated by the majority EITHER to the left of it, OR to the right.Size is not the issue. Position is all.And these days the Labour Party is the centre ground party. Nick is so redical, Dave so conservative.---------------------------------------------------------------------Did you know that with Tories on 40 per cent, Lib Dems on 32 per cent and Labour on 28 percent in a 5 member constituency under STV, that Labour would get as many or more seats than any other party if the Tories too see Labour as middle ground? After getting two seats, the Tories' residual votes would be given all to Labour (who like the Lib Dems would have one already) That would give 2, 1, 2 Tory, Lib Dems, Lab respectively. And the Lib Dems came second 'n' all!! Unfair lousy voting system or what? Sat 01 May 2010 00:07:01 GMT+1 jonnie Just listened to Jeremy Vine with David Cameron - worth a listen again - and you get the balmy BNP view :-) Fri 30 Apr 2010 22:42:46 GMT+1 Big Jim For tomorrows AM glassbox?Police alerted to postal vote fraud claims across capital;-( Fri 30 Apr 2010 21:42:00 GMT+1 Ellis P Otter I've cracked it, having just heard taht the London Times is going Tory (no surprise there), what I'd do as the next chancellor.Definitely a guaranteed reduction in tax for accredited journalists, no tax for two years if the electoral role number on your ballot shows a cross in my box.Luv Ya! Fri 30 Apr 2010 21:14:50 GMT+1 Bloofs Too perfect:-Is it raining?-Yes, but we have someone stood over the phone holding an umbrel.....I paraphrase, of course. Fri 30 Apr 2010 20:25:28 GMT+1 Ellis P Otter Rain stops communication! Ahh, so familiar for an old Africa hand ... and dealt with in much the same way. Exasperated laughter and Make a Plan. Well done Eddie and the team! Fri 30 Apr 2010 18:37:48 GMT+1 Mindclearly Anyone seen the PM glass box, or have I walk into another glitchy time on the blog?? Fri 30 Apr 2010 18:13:42 GMT+1 Gillianian Snap, Big Jim! Fri 30 Apr 2010 18:01:30 GMT+1 Gillianian edwardjecle(86) Or that other old proverb.....When you're in a hole, stop digging. Fri 30 Apr 2010 18:00:20 GMT+1 Big Jim 86. edwardjecle"Brown 'to dig deeper'"When you're in a hole..... Fri 30 Apr 2010 17:54:35 GMT+1 elcej Brown 'to dig deeper'reminds me of that old proverb..... He that digs deepest, deepest digs. Fri 30 Apr 2010 17:20:59 GMT+1 Big Jim R4 6 O'Clock news just said:"the pain he's going to inflict is going to hurt";-) Fri 30 Apr 2010 17:18:50 GMT+1 davmcn A neighbor of mine books satellite time for BBC TV. Should I knock on her door? Fri 30 Apr 2010 17:00:54 GMT+1 Big Jim 77. MadnessOfCrowds"t's a much higher class of debate than you get on the London-centric board ;-)"If you can stand the moderation delays, and it does tend to be a bit of a Nat love-in at times...Slainte Fri 30 Apr 2010 16:52:33 GMT+1 IMOORE Its good timing to mention of the Referendum Party, with Greece needing a bail out, Portugal and Spain looking dodgy, we should all say a big thanks to Sir James Goldsmith for funding the Referendum party and forcing the major parties to put a lock on us join the Euro without a referendum. At the time all the politicos were sniffy about a rich man having influence in our politics, but Sir James Goldsmith did us a public service. Fri 30 Apr 2010 16:52:06 GMT+1 Looternite Typical must be someone from St Albans cutting the link.Carolyn could have made the effort to pronounce Luton proper. Fri 30 Apr 2010 16:46:47 GMT+1 davmcn Oh no, the link to Luton is lost! Looter will be bereft. Fri 30 Apr 2010 16:40:48 GMT+1 MoC That Brian Taylor board's got my appetite going ....For our election night party, does anyone know where I can buy proper rowies down here in London town?Or can they be shipped by overnight courier? Fri 30 Apr 2010 16:38:25 GMT+1 MoC You could tell JS-P was talking gibberish as soon as she opened her mouth - she can't count but can repeat what she thinks others have said.. a bit like IMHOME. I'm surprise Salmond didn't whack her over the head with his abacus when she reached / screeched "the debt is 90,000 pounds per household per year". I liked Tim H's pointed explanation of why she may have confused "deficit and debt... they both begin with duh" Fri 30 Apr 2010 16:35:15 GMT+1 MoC Thanks for the link, Big Jim - it's a much higher class of debate than you get on the London-centric board ;-) Fri 30 Apr 2010 16:29:38 GMT+1 davmcn Hey Eddie, I heard that Street-Porter quote on PM as well. Sort of. Fri 30 Apr 2010 16:25:08 GMT+1 Big Jim One for the archivesOr was that 'from'? Fri 30 Apr 2010 16:12:13 GMT+1 Big Jim Good cartoons Fri 30 Apr 2010 16:03:04 GMT+1 davmcn jm 65, As N Clegg is a non-believer, he doesn't need to be converted. Fri 30 Apr 2010 15:43:57 GMT+1 Ellis P Otter WOT Jim??? Better than MoreOrLessMan Tim Harford? Fri 30 Apr 2010 15:39:53 GMT+1 davmcn I just noticed that if you hold page two of today's Indy up to the light, David Cameron has wings on his head. Does this mean anything? Fri 30 Apr 2010 15:39:40 GMT+1 Big Jim 65. jonathanmorse"I've seen somewhere a chart showing how hard it is for libdem votes to convert to seats. BBC News I think, showing a list of seats that change for every % swing they get."Check out five thirty eightSimply the best statistical analysis going! Fri 30 Apr 2010 15:27:48 GMT+1 Jonathan Morse #4 I always assumed girls had kids because sex was fun and the guys could always find a way to get the girl to say yes, even if he would say 'no' if she got pregnant.I fear that how well you do in life has more to do with who your parents are than how hard they work to help you succeed or how hard you work at school then afterwards. If so children from sink comps will always do badly yet the rich will be able to blame them when it's not their fault or the fault of the education system. Indeed in this case the education system would be something of a con, since it supposedly does you good yet has no chance to.That said it doesn't help that the only way to get a home these days is to be rich, be an asylum seeker, or be rich. V rich if that chartered accountant on the debate yesterday was anything to go by. But keeping house prices high was part of Brown's strategy of keeping those with homes feeling good about themselves and voting Labour, and anything he does to reduce house prices, except to build more social housing IF LIMITED to those who can't compete with the rich, will go against that. Fri 30 Apr 2010 14:28:44 GMT+1 Jonathan Morse 43% on this to get Clegg elected PM: Fri 30 Apr 2010 14:15:50 GMT+1 MoC jonathanmorse - but that's okay, we don't want him as an MP, just as a (presidential-style) PM!Hooray! Triples all round! Fri 30 Apr 2010 13:58:48 GMT+1 Jonathan Morse 52, 54, 56, How can you say Eddie is better than the worst politicians - his choice of religion/crying for main questions of Clegg was crazy unless he was up to something he didn't tell us about (I thought the Palestinian who talked about G Bush was arguing that because Bush thought that way, and thought that God had told him to sort out the Middle East, Bush would sort out the Middle East with the same commitment as he had given to those 2 other topics. I wondered if Eddie was trying to steer Clegg into a big gaff but it didn't work out). Also surely we should want a leader who didn't have belief in an imaginary friend? Perhaps Eddie wanted Clegg to offend all those believers. Either way, or if it was just a time waster so he didn't have to ask proper questions, it's reason not to want Eddie as a MP or to say he's as bad as the rest, surely? Fri 30 Apr 2010 13:55:14 GMT+1 Jonathan Morse Surely under our electoral system the libdems need a huge number of votes even to come second. The chances of Clegg becoming PM are less than for Jim Hacker. If the people see this as a Presidential election they are in for a shock, as none of the leaders will be on their ballot papers (in three constitiuencies one of the leaders will be on their ballot papers) and in most constitiuences people voting libdem will get a Tory as they will have edged out the Labour candidate. Although I suspect many voters will know this and only consider the libdems if they can be elected. This may make some libdem/Tory marginals harder for Cameron to get, making a hung Parliament more likely. Brown's performance may make more Labour people stay at home, though.I want a hung Parliament for voting reform and maybe a choice over what they'll cut in the next budget.I've seen somewhere a chart showing how hard it is for libdem votes to convert to seats. BBC News I think, showing a list of seats that change for every % swing they get. Fri 30 Apr 2010 13:47:55 GMT+1 DiY Eddie, I know it is a bit late in the day but perhaps sometime you could interview this gallant man, Rick Hoyt , and perhaps put a bit of perspective into our hum drum lives? Fri 30 Apr 2010 13:45:25 GMT+1 BradyGray i got that pre-bank holiday friday afternoon feeling... it's like a hollow place opened in my mind... the anticipation of that there should be a party but there isn't kind of thing... or am i just something or othering... Fri 30 Apr 2010 13:44:43 GMT+1 mittfh Well, my constituency's been redrawn since 2005, but since the mainly Labour-voting part of it is now in a constituency of its own, it looks as though the Conservative incumbent (who got 55% vote share last time) will get a second term :(So far I've had two leaflets from the Tories, two from the Lib Dems, and one each from the Labour and Independent candidates. The latter apparently used to be head of the local university's Students Union...There's also a Green and a UKIP standing, but I only discovered that from the BBC's election site - they haven't done any campaigning whatsoever (unless you count the obligatory short article introducing every candidate in this week's paper).-oOo-Meanwhile, Labour introduced a new poster campaign this morning, but unfortunately the media's attention was diverted by a car crashing into a bus stop around the corner (inevitably, punning phrases like "Car crash politics" are already doing the rounds...)And the Lib Dems were brave enough to visit a university. Unsurprisingly, within full view of the cameras, some jokers displayed placards stating "I agree with Nick" and "Vote Labour" behind their leader... Fri 30 Apr 2010 13:39:17 GMT+1 Ellis P Otter Hmm, I would have thought that jacket of hers would be easy to spot ;-) Fri 30 Apr 2010 13:06:15 GMT+1 Looternite 53. Ellis P OtterJust been to town centre and there was no sign of Sequin. Fri 30 Apr 2010 12:59:15 GMT+1 DiY Lady Sue have you recently moved?As I was rather hoping to come and see you in the late autumn. Fri 30 Apr 2010 12:55:32 GMT+1 Big Jim Good for Lordy, Milady!;-)xx Fri 30 Apr 2010 12:54:04 GMT+1 Lady_Sue Ellis@35: "I still have no clear picture of their policies and the philosophical differences between the three major parties." Nor me - perhaps PM can come up with a handy guide to who is suggesting what this evening?Jim@37: *sprung!* Feel a complete fraud as we don't have any! ;o) Mind you, Lordy never went with the 'Anglo-Irish' tag - he became an Irish citizen after the Bloody Sunday massacre, when he also sent back his WWII gongs. sodarkinhere@52: great idea! He'd get my vote too, only I live in Mexico. Fri 30 Apr 2010 12:47:49 GMT+1 DiY sodarkinhere 52, Damn fine idea!And if Eddie was 'up for it' I am sure the Froggers would have stumped up the five hundred quid for his deposit!Besides anything Esther can do, Eddie can probably do better!:-p Fri 30 Apr 2010 12:43:28 GMT+1 Big Jim I spy with my little eye, something beginning with "i" (or rather a small portion thereof), and is that a large brown stain spreading elsewhere? Where's a North Wind when you need one? Fri 30 Apr 2010 12:08:02 GMT+1 MoC sodarkinhere @52 Me too - let's have Eddie from PM for PM...He's got it all.And he's not a (real) sleb. Fri 30 Apr 2010 12:05:07 GMT+1 Ellis P Otter Looternite, your mission for this arvo is o find Sequin and claim your five pounds :-) Fri 30 Apr 2010 11:51:22 GMT+1 BradyGray I think Eddie should be Prime minister... I like Eddie... he is full of common sense and witty and has charisma and compassion... and authority without arrogance... all the things that make up a good leader... I'd vote for Eddie... I'm serious here... I get so tired of all the phonies... ahh well... Fri 30 Apr 2010 11:50:40 GMT+1 Big Jim 49. Looternite"It appears that it may be a race between Tory, Labour and an Independent."Without any further knowledge, I'd suggest a non-celebrety independent, but you probably knew that already.;-) Fri 30 Apr 2010 11:49:38 GMT+1 Ellis P Otter "The spending cuts and tax rises after the election will be so severe that the party which implements them will be thrown out of power for a generation, the Governor of the Bank of England has warned." if we get a coalition, does that mean ALL of them Mervyn? Fri 30 Apr 2010 11:49:06 GMT+1 Looternite Well here we have 5 independents (one a Celebrity)BNP, Tory, Lib/Dem, UKIP, Green, Labour and finally, Workers Revolutionary Party.So spoilt for choice. It appears that it may be a race between Tory, Labour and an Independent. Fri 30 Apr 2010 11:30:58 GMT+1 elcej 47. "Do not just assume it is a wasted vote".Who are you kidding. With our 19th century voting system the Greens don't stand a chance (3.4% in 2005) so voting for them, other than a protest vote, is a wasted vote and besides.... I more keen to kick our last part-time (2 jobs) MP out. Fri 30 Apr 2010 10:43:58 GMT+1 Mindclearly Shame really,I voted Green in the European elections and they were just edged out by BNP for a European place. Do not just assume it is a wasted vote, as long as you make a good concious decision. I never though you were, but just take a look at a Daily Mail and you'll see stories taylored in that vain. I have a friend who read both the Guardian and the Daily Mail and she'll come out with the most extrodinary claims and when they are interigated the foundations of the story are from the same rag. Fri 30 Apr 2010 10:32:45 GMT+1 Big Sister Edward, here our choices are even smaller .... Fri 30 Apr 2010 10:31:53 GMT+1 elcej 42. Mindclearly wrote: I hope your not going to vote purely what you have seen on the TVDo you think someone who regularly debates politics and other subjects on this and other blogs is the kind of person that chooses how to vote based on an X-factor TV debate programme.I think you ought to credit me with a little more intelligence that.btw. I haven't noticed an SNP candidate on the list down here in Devon. Can't think why? Of the 6 candidates, and after attending their hustings, I've already discounted BNP (YUK!) and the UKIP (Barking Mad!) candidates. The Green party hasn't a chance of winning. So that leaves three. Fri 30 Apr 2010 10:24:26 GMT+1 Mindclearly 43. ring up radio 4s leaders debate as the person coming on today might be interested....Anyone going to see what Nick is peddling today?? Fri 30 Apr 2010 10:11:46 GMT+1 BradyGray My vote can be bought for a minimum of £3.000.00... I might sell it on ebay...not sure... Fri 30 Apr 2010 10:09:14 GMT+1 Mindclearly does anyone, or is anyone interested in the whole issue as I see it of Goldman Sachs? The more I read on this issue the more worried I become as they seemed to have fingers/derivatives in many pies and no one actually challenged them at the time.George of the Shadows I feel maybe sidelined by Dave if Dave achieves his goal. Maybe foreign role and put Billy in as Chancellor.31. I hope your not going to vote purely what you have seen on the TV as it is a first past the post system and you my have a complete halfwit standing for your party, plus as Loonernite said look at other options depends whether the SNP or and Independant are standing, please don't waste your vote as you may as well write on your ballot paper, PLEASE NO PRESIDENTIAL TYPE ROLE FOR UK, JUST THINK WHAT DAMAGE CHERIE COULD HAVE DONE.. Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:59:36 GMT+1 Big Jim 35. Ellis P Otter"Cleggy sounded too childlike to be a PM, DaveBoy like a dodgy salesman, and Gordo just sounded tired and resentful."Well summarised. Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:58:56 GMT+1 Looternite 39. Big SisterAh that explains it. For a moment I thought that maybe you had arrived a bit early.One of my younger brothers was nealy born in the toilet. As my mum said "He arrived so quick he was nearly a water birth". My how she laughs, it seems that you had to be there. :-) Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:58:45 GMT+1 Big Sister About the study? Well, as I've said, it 'had been' his study, but at the time of my birth it was part of a nursing home. Imagine the thoughts that had been 'thunk' there, though - and the people he'd entertained!I gather that, when he became PM, he sold his house because he was moving into No. 10 and he didn't feel it was right for anyone to have two homes.I like that, and many other things, about this man. Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:53:36 GMT+1 Looternite 35. Ellis P OtterOh yes, the mirdle, perhaps that's why Cameron seemed "restrained" Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:49:14 GMT+1 Big Jim Have you seen to the horses today, Milady?;-)xx Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:48:20 GMT+1 Big Jim 27. IMOORE"his X Factor election has by default given us a Presidency, but without the checks and balances, and when part of the failure of Parliament in recent years has been its feebleness to hold the Executive to account the last thing we need is a presidency. "On this occasion, I heartily agree with you, Moore. Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:45:31 GMT+1 Ellis P Otter 34 - Looternite interesting choice of words considering the mirdle item on WH just now ;-)Last night's debate struck me as more or less a draw. I listened on radio and have to say that with only voices to go on, felt that Cleggy sounded too childlike to be a PM, DaveBoy like a dodgy salesman, and Gordo just sounded tired and resentful.I still have no clear picture of their policies and the philosophical differences between the three major parties. Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:44:29 GMT+1 Looternite 30. Big SisterHow fascinating please expand. :-) Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:36:43 GMT+1 Looternite 31. edwardjecleThere are independents standing here and I might vote for one of them. Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:30:17 GMT+1 CG #30, the Attlee story I like is the one where he sacked a minister, and the now ex-minister asked him, "Why Prime Minister, why?". Which was something that was never done. Attlee took his pipe out of his mouth and replied, "No bottom." Short, sharp to the point, and could be said to all three contestants on the I Want To Be PM show screened last night. Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:29:46 GMT+1 elcej 7.Looternite wrote: "I have watched the three debates and read all the leaflets. Now to start making up my mind."Who are trying to kid. You spend most of your time trashing Tories & Libdems and saying how wonderful Labour is.You've clearly made up your mind already. Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:22:56 GMT+1 Big Sister Somebody mentioned Clement Attlee. With all the talk of the 'leaders debates', it's worth remembering that he probably wouldn't have won the plaudits had such events been run 60 years ago. Nonetheless, it is now generally recognised that he was one of our greatest prime ministers.While in no way related to him, my earliest moments in the world were influenced by him, not least because I happened to be born in what had been his study - and in the care of the NHS. Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:21:48 GMT+1 Lady_Sue Horse@24: loved the definition. How apt. Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:11:17 GMT+1 IMOORE 26.Very well put. Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:10:37 GMT+1 IMOORE 25.There is a good reason to worry about the leaders debates turning our election into an X Factor. We elect a Parliament, not a President, yet this X Factor election has by default given us a Presidency, but without the checks and balances, and when part of the failure of Parliament in recent years has been its feebleness to hold the Executive to account the last thing we need is a presidency. On that issue alone these Leaders debates have been a constitutional disaster, its shoved us completely in the wrong direction. Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:08:47 GMT+1 CG #23, tell your mum that that Labour party is being made in China now, where a lot of other UK companies of the time of Attlee have gone to, and where they are creating a working class from a peasant class; the UK Labour party is intent on turning a working class to a benefits class. Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:06:14 GMT+1 Adrie van der Luijt Lib Dem flashmob in Trafalgar Square and Newcastle on Monday at 3pm. No doubt reason for rightwingers to complain about X-Factor style election campaigns. Or just another example of the magnificent way in which this election has mobilised young voters? Fri 30 Apr 2010 08:56:01 GMT+1 The Intermittent Horse Looternite (15) - Well, you can have him on pemanent loan.As for "..the old Anglo-Irish aristocracy", Brendan Behan described an Anglo-Irishman as "a Protestant with a horse".Pat: He was an Anglo-Irishman.Meg: In the name of God, what's that?Pat: A Protestant with a horse.Ropeen: Leadbetter.Pat: No, no, an ordinary Protestant like Leadbetter, the plumber in the back parlour next door, won't do, nor a Belfast orangeman, not if he was as black as your boot.Meg: Why not?Pat: Because they work. An Anglo-Irishman only works at riding horses, drinking whiskey, and reading double-meaning books in Irish at Trinity College.– From Act One of The Hostage," 1958 Fri 30 Apr 2010 08:51:46 GMT+1 Looternite Spoke to my mum last night and she sent her postal ballot back as soon as she could because as she says "if I peg out at least my vote will count".She is old Labour (85 you know) and she always says that any woman who does not vote is betraying the struggle for equality.She also says that she is disgusted with any woman who does not vote Labour. The greatest thing created since the war was the NHS and this has benefited women the most. It was set up by Labour and we should not forget that. It is true that only Labour can be trusted with the NHS.Still, I have yet to decide myself. Fri 30 Apr 2010 08:50:19 GMT+1 H There they are, gambolling like new season's lambs; clapping their hands with delight, giggling, smiling, full of ... beans, in their element. It is their time.Who are they? Media types, of course.Election time; it is what they are made for. The rest of us are bored thingless, wishing it had been a two week campaign, we could just about have stood that. The media types, however, never short of a repetition, are determined to get to every ear and eye in the country - as many times as possible.Who pressed for the prime ministerial debates? Sky News. Who will present election night? Dimbletwins. Last night, prior to the Birmingham debate, one of the Sky correspondents began interviewing other correspondents! "What do you think the three participants are likely to say" she trilled. Incestuous, or what? Boredom a gogo.What about a straw poll on 'enough already'? "No" would say the media types, "it's unfair, taking away our sweeties!"Moratorium, where is thy sting? [You can always switch off! Don't worry, I do.] Fri 30 Apr 2010 08:49:02 GMT+1 Big Jim One doesn't ask those questions if one wants to stay employed.... Fri 30 Apr 2010 08:43:29 GMT+1 CG #1, if you have to ask those questions then I reckon you couldn't be "trained up" to do their jobs. Fri 30 Apr 2010 08:38:27 GMT+1 davmcn IM 18, Aren't you glad that Sid is too busy with the election to be here? Fri 30 Apr 2010 08:38:03 GMT+1 IMOORE 16.Are you really holding the Conservatives to a policy that was implimented 5 or more Parliaments ago and two Governments, when we can't even get Labout to honour the promises they made at the last election. Fri 30 Apr 2010 08:24:05 GMT+1