Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml en-gb 30 Wed 17 Sep 2014 01:45:07 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml Alan_N http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=99#comment141 Time for someone to take his medication. Fri 19 Feb 2010 11:13:01 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=98#comment140 Not inconvenient, just boring, trivial and irrelevant. Fri 19 Feb 2010 10:10:38 GMT+1 Mike Coulten http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=97#comment139 139. yes, I am inconvenient am I not. Why can't you just "move on" to your next victims as you consume the sugary confection of shallow ignorant sensationalist witch hunting that is passed off as news these days.I mean, Afghanistan is all about pipelines isnt it (working backwards from the assumption it is as you do)?Well, errr, no. Even the most basic grasp of the economics and beneficiaries of any pipeline shows this idea to be empty headed rubbish.Still, it helps the Talibs to spread this cretinous idea. So you do. Well done!!!138. Most Iraqis were killed in the insurgency which was incited by the narrative you promoted. It must be difficult to face this truth.27 million Iraqis are now free and sovereign, in spite of many people and despite so many people.Frank Zappa once sang in his song "teenage wind""Free is when you don't have to pay for nothing or do nothing. We want to be free. Free as the wind, free as the waves.We want to be free. Free as the wind, free as the waves."It would have been good if it were possible to emancipate people without being declared a witch. Sadly though people like you require their pound of others flesh don't you. I mean, the idea the USA did something merely becasue it was good is ridiculous isnt it? Like asking someone from Flatland to appreciate the mountains, it is beyond your ken it seems. Fri 19 Feb 2010 07:40:30 GMT+1 DoctorDolots http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=97#comment138 136. 'I am only here to do my bit to try and stop it happening again by not letting everyone forget the utter drivel' OK, you've done your bit. Bye. Thu 18 Feb 2010 22:39:40 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=96#comment137 "Luckily your narrative has lost. Sadly tens of thousands died in the name of your story."Yours, not mine. Thu 18 Feb 2010 21:54:24 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=95#comment136 The end justifies the means? Now where did I first hear that? Stalin? Marx? Lenin?Machiavelli, it seems.Not a very 'moral' argument by most lights. Thu 18 Feb 2010 21:53:17 GMT+1 Mike Coulten http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=95#comment135 It wasn't a war crime any more than Kosovo or Sierra Leone was. This is just the last hiding place. Tell me, is a law that makes emancipating people illegal a moral law? Such a law is a dictators charter!And the legal case was not clear cut either way anyway, as so often in law.At the end of the day a battle was fought between two narrativesThe first said foreigners had come to colonise and stealThe second said foreigners had come to liberate and emancipateLuckily your narrative has lost. Sadly tens of thousands died in the name of your story.I am only here to do my bit to try and stop it happening again by not letting everyone forget the utter drivel they have promoting that has been inciting the very thing they claim to deplore. It seems that 21st century Britain is more Lord Haw Haw than Churchillian. How far we have fallen eh? Thu 18 Feb 2010 21:45:31 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=94#comment134 So a war crime is OK if it brings a good result? Thu 18 Feb 2010 21:20:10 GMT+1 Mike Coulten http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=93#comment133 Nope, I think Iran is falling apart on its own and is desperate for a foreigner to blame for their own mess. Leave them to it I say.The Iraqis have sovereignty period. We didn't "supervise" their constitution, "we" were defending Iraqi democrats under a UN mandate while they negotiated the voted for their own constitution. This constitution has change procedures should Iraqis wish to amend what they decided upon. The Iraqi govt is self evidently sovereign and no puppet of the USYou imply that should they do something the US doesn't want then they will be replaced. I would say this is just as vicious and just as empty and just as harmful lie as the oil one. Did you see the SOFA they won? Do you see the amazingly good (for Iraqis) oil contracts I detailed?You seem determined to deny free Iraq. I think that's pretty sad even if it was done despite you and in spite of you, with not a drop of oil stolen or controlled. Maybe 27 million Iraqis should still live in bondage to defend your principles? Thu 18 Feb 2010 21:09:45 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=92#comment132 The Iraqis have sovereignty as long as they conform to our ideas and the constitution whose creation we 'supervised'....I remember when Saddam was our good buddy.I'll bet you think we should 'sort out' Iran next. Thu 18 Feb 2010 20:54:39 GMT+1 Mike Coulten http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=92#comment131 130. Only Saddam had sovereignty before 2003, now 27 million free Iraqis are sovereign who used to be enslaved. It seems it is you that is horrified by the reality of Iraqi sovereignty preferring that of Saddam Hussein the individual. And my point is that everyone has been judging. Based on a pile of shallow drivel about oil they made up to rationalise their opposition to emancipation. You have spent 7 years judging while our soldiers fought the narrative you promoted, now you are being judged.131. No, you dont love free sovereign Iraq. You seem to need to deny it in fact. I think you must hate it? Thu 18 Feb 2010 20:43:02 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=91#comment130 "Free Sovereign Iraquis" I love it! Thu 18 Feb 2010 19:16:33 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=90#comment129 Mike, you've obviously got little respect for the concept of sovereignty. To wage or initiate aggressive war is a war crime. Judge not, lest ye be judged... Thu 18 Feb 2010 19:13:54 GMT+1 Mike Coulten http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=90#comment128 127. I am not sure who free sovereign Iraqis will buy the stuff they want from with their oil wealth. They get 99% of the incremental revenue by the way. That's a lot of moolah. About 240 billion a year at $70 bbl and the extra 9.2 mb/d contracted (it will be higher I expect). Saudi doesn't get that much from Aramco as far as I understand it (deliberately? opaque in Saudi).Will you really begrudge free Iraqis buying their stuff from whoever they like? I am suddenly thinking about Eddie asking what we should "do" when the recent lottery winners announced that it wouldn't change their lives. Do you see? Thu 18 Feb 2010 19:13:28 GMT+1 Mike Coulten http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=89#comment127 126. So it would always be the case that were a bad dictator to also have oil no one could depose him and emancipate his people because they would be condemned fro denying said bad man his oil?Hmmm. Morality? Thu 18 Feb 2010 19:07:46 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=88#comment126 Besides, The Iraqis can use some of that oil money to pay our contractors to rebuild all the stuff we blew up. Thu 18 Feb 2010 18:46:13 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=88#comment125 Mike,As noted elsewhere, your argument is trivial. Who, where, how much, etc. doesn't matter. The war had the prime objective of putting the oil in the hands of "reliable" people, e.g. anyone but Saddam. Thu 18 Feb 2010 18:35:19 GMT+1 Mike Coulten http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=87#comment124 116. The US and UK get PAID less than $2, the others more than $5Close, except utterly wrong!! See a shiny thing, pick it up before you understand what you are looking at!!and 114. no davmcn, I wont "shut up". Why should I? Am I making you uncomfortable? Thu 18 Feb 2010 18:31:34 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=86#comment123 For Mike, A coup[le of counters..... Thu 18 Feb 2010 18:30:20 GMT+1 Sindy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=85#comment122 Good grief. Thu 18 Feb 2010 18:26:32 GMT+1 Mike Coulten http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=85#comment121 So you reported on Falklands oil.And the key fact you omitted?Yes, the UK will get no revenue from Falklands oil by right, it all accrues to the IslandersNo one listening to your "journalism" will realise this, indeed I think most will have the impression the opposite is true.As always a totally distorted report on oil, a subject the media seems incapable of reporting accurately.Ask your listeners. Who thinks the UK will get the economic benefit of Falklands oil?As for the UK media and Vancouver, of course we are uniquely dysfunctional. When the MMR scare broke the Lancet published their article it was published and reported all around the world. There was only one country where vaccination rates collapsed leading directly to children suffering and a good few avoidable deaths. It was the UK. Everywhere else vaccination rates were largely unaffected. Why?The answer is our media sewer, the wolverine pack, that daily drip poison into minds literally "Breaking Britain" with their sensationalism, vacuous shallow witch hunting and relentless drive to provide sources oif grievance and figures to hate for it. Adam Curtis is worth watching on this. Or Newswipe. People are beginning to notice what the UK does. And you have noticed we have noticed as well, but you cannot stop. I think its time we hunted the witch hunters, its time for decent people to rise up against this miserable tide.As Adam Curtis said, were Roy Jenkins to try and change Britain for the better today the media would destroy him before he could. Thu 18 Feb 2010 18:21:40 GMT+1 GotToTheEnd http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=84#comment120 106One of too many of them.What are you tlaking about rJd?The further from power, the more radical.(Check out Concorde, Nuclear Power, claiming to be a mole.)He's part of a work avoiding dynasty, professing radicalism to avoid the consequences of work, income and wealth equality on him.How many generations of no-work privelege are the Stansgates, the Wedgewood-Benns, allowed in your book till you suggest they drive buses or do something else useful?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_BennGoodness, they're as bad as the Brittain - Williams or the Hailsham-Hoggs or the Slovos and the Aimlesses are becoming.Or the Feet. All of them. Thu 18 Feb 2010 18:17:05 GMT+1 The Stainless Steel Cat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=83#comment119 Looternite (77):3rd class never really went away. Apparently *2nd* class was abolished in 1875 & 3rd class carriages renamed standard. Thu 18 Feb 2010 18:09:50 GMT+1 RxKaren http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=83#comment118 Eddie - I wish you a better journey to Diss tomorrow than we had out of Liverpool Street the other week. If you were travelling First Class there was apparently no heating in the carriage, if you were travelling Standard Class you couldn't get a seat because they were all reserved for school parties. Whichever way you travelled you were delayed at Witham because, according to the train staff, someone had nicked some signalling cable again. Thu 18 Feb 2010 18:07:40 GMT+1 Colin McAuley http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=82#comment117 While marginmally annoyed at some of the hysteria in the UK press to do with the Vancouver Olympics; as a proud Canadian who has lived all my life next doot to the "arrogant States", I ingore all of this fluff designed only to sell tabloids. We will be watching you closely in 2012 though! Thu 18 Feb 2010 17:58:38 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=81#comment116 Eddie, I'll tell you what's off limits on the BBC, saying anything negative about Islam and showing the Danish cartoons. Thu 18 Feb 2010 17:58:24 GMT+1 GotToTheEnd http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=80#comment115 112Icidentally, the UK and US pay less than 2 dollars a barrel ,others as much as 5.111 You're entitled to tax everyone else, are you?If I had my way, you'd only be able to kiss it goodbye.What makes you think you are entitled to a red cent more than anyone else?This post:Heard Gavin Eisler interviewing an Israeli expert (talking in that US - Tele - Aviv 'Here's why. ... I've got more...Let me tell you' way).The expert was telling us how close Israel and the UK are.Indeed, he was saying, in his conversations with members Israeli intelligence recently, he was told of the 'good work, very good work' Britsih intelligence was doing 'on Iran'All ears? You bet!!! To hear Gavin say 'Thank you and goodbye'Gavin, if Israeli intelligence thinks it's good, it's bad and we should be told!!! Thu 18 Feb 2010 17:57:31 GMT+1 GotToTheEnd http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=80#comment114 With the Israelis running amuk over Gaza, the Lebanaon and now Dubai, its about time the West started offering excuses for them.(It used to be that they were in the right to drive hundreds of thousands of Arabs from their homes, to carve out a territorial claim in hte middle of Palestine, to attack Egypt, Syria, Jordan, to make nuclear weapons and to settle the West Bank. Now it is seen as a clear moral outrage.Wait a second, haven't we been supporting them in all this terrorism.Well, yes, that's why we need to blame someone else for their bad behaviour.I know, lets have a go at the Germans. If they'd have killed six and a half million of us in camps we'd probably be behaving badly now.(They didn't? Then what our excuse for it all - Iraq, Afghanistan, Global Warming, the Credit Crunch..... I know, the Blitz!))So, time to rattle the Germans. Easter is a good time.Here, we're just going to hear Bach's Passion.But in Germany, the dead Christ will be on stage.He IS the 6.5 million.He is for me, too, but it doesn't excuse the Israelis or their fellow travellersSo the conductor rattling his baton at the awful Germans doesn't forgive the Israelis or excuse us for thinking that liking Ann Franiks menas we don't have to point out to Israel that she behaves as an oligarchic warrior state.And if they've got any sense will take the view that this simple simon view of things is nothing but a few aging Brits claiming they're still the best when it's doubtful if they were ever anything more than the children of victorious Brits throwing their weight about. Thu 18 Feb 2010 17:36:28 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=79#comment113 Gotta go. Hope my PM Glass Box shows up and I hope you-know-whos SHUT UP! about Iraq oil. No mention of Malvinas oil, though... Thu 18 Feb 2010 17:34:59 GMT+1 Bobsterama http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=78#comment112 I've just heard Ming Campbell claim that Israel is our ally. This is completely untrue. Israel is not our ally.Considering Isreal's ongoing occupation of Palestine (and its trach record of war crimes and abuses) I think that this is something listeners should be both aware of and grateful for. Thu 18 Feb 2010 17:24:02 GMT+1 GotToTheEnd http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=78#comment111 I see the oil in Iraq has been divi-ed up nicely.The US and UK getting the largest single country share.China Oil getting its usual reward for privatising China's oil wealth (read: giving the assets to US-UK capitalists in return for bits of paper saying we, the people, owe you (How do they get hold of those dollars nad pounds? Why, by opening accounts at banks backed by shares that they've inflated in value, by merely announcing the value' increases. How do we persuade the Chinese to hold these worthless pictures of presidents and the Queen ,why, by theatening her. With war. Like what happened to... Iraq. What do we, the people, get for owing the Chinese all this money? Cuts.)So that one's down to US-UK too.Then there's propping up the Western pro-Attaturk secret state in Turkey.Then Italy for her soldiers.Anything else? Well, home groan corruption of course.About what you'd expect. Thu 18 Feb 2010 17:20:51 GMT+1 The Intermittent Horse http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=77#comment110 EtE (108) - It's great, isn't it? I've made a packet but I'm not sure where I should squirrel the profit now. Any suggestions? Thu 18 Feb 2010 17:14:58 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=76#comment109 "understanding the situation Israel finds itself in?"What about the situation Hamas finds itself in? Elected, but jailed, The democratic process completely rejected by "The West" who demanded it...? Thu 18 Feb 2010 17:11:36 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=76#comment108 MC 92, 93, What about the oil on the Malvinas? Thu 18 Feb 2010 17:05:36 GMT+1 GotToTheEnd http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=75#comment107 Hooray! The Ftse above 5,300.And it only cost us 200 billion of Quantitative Diseasing money to get it there.Course, we tried to sell off the bank shares we own, it would crash.And if we tried to fund the 200 billion of public debt the BoE is holding, properly, by borrowing it or better still taxing it, from the private sector, it'd crash all the way down to 3,300Which is where it should be.Cos with the trillions of spending power for the rich that the QD and dirsct and indirect gifts to banksters have created, the demand to cut overall spending SOMEWHERE (to avoid a hyper inflation in a year or so's time) has focused down on cuts in public spending on sevices.Which estimnates have at about 15 per cent overall. With the total 50 per cent of GDP on services etc, that means 7.5 per cent cuts in spending.Which is about 100 billion as it stands.So expect Swedish levels of pain unless you lock up the banksters and take the markets into preventative detention. Thu 18 Feb 2010 17:04:43 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=74#comment106 Global Weirding is here! "Of the festivals of nonsense that periodically overtake American politics, surely the silliest is the argument that because Washington is having a particularly snowy winter it proves that climate change is a hoax and, therefore, we need not bother with all this girly-man stuff like renewable energy, solar panels and carbon taxes. Just drill, baby, drill.";-) Thu 18 Feb 2010 16:49:15 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=73#comment105 Big Sis (Tony Benn)Its ok now, just got through. Yep, one of a kind. Thu 18 Feb 2010 16:47:33 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=73#comment104 Mike Coulten,Alternatively, you can post your spreadsheet to a webspace, from which any interested parties (including Eddie, should he wish) can view it.It's easy;-) Thu 18 Feb 2010 16:32:42 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=72#comment103 Joe, it is working for me (using the link on this thread) ... Thu 18 Feb 2010 16:27:52 GMT+1 newlach http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=71#comment102 Mark Beaumont has finished his cycling tour of the Americas. He has cycled over 13,000 miles. Well done!http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/8522019.stm Thu 18 Feb 2010 16:27:20 GMT+1 Sindy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=71#comment101 The BBC main site appears to have collapsed!!! Thu 18 Feb 2010 16:25:56 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=70#comment100 Big Sis (99)Just get error 404 (:-{ Thu 18 Feb 2010 16:23:12 GMT+1 Sindy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=69#comment99 100! Thu 18 Feb 2010 16:18:22 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=69#comment98 Now, here's a man of the people! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP8X-YzoxXIMr. Benn is a great user of public transport and I gather he likes to uses his journeys as a means of keeping in touch with the views of others. Perhaps Nicholas Winterton should take note.(Incidentally, in this clip Tony Benn began to demonstrate a device that he invented - the backpack with a seat incorporated in it. I remember seeing the story in the Press a couple of years ago. Good on you, Mr. Benn!) Thu 18 Feb 2010 16:11:51 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=68#comment97 You know the good thing about being invisible is, no one challenges your posts its great! Thu 18 Feb 2010 15:57:00 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=67#comment96 Nicholas Winterton was quite correct in citing that the vast majority of people who travel on trains are a completely different kind to himself. What Mr Winterton fails to understand though is the fact that in a democracy, if you are in the minority, your the looser and the majority voice prevails. Except in this country where MPs think they are not part of a democracy but a dick potato ship. Thu 18 Feb 2010 15:55:09 GMT+1 Sindy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=66#comment95 Mike Coulten:As Fearless has pointed out more than once, the information you are so interested in is freely available (including via the BBC). What more could you want? Thu 18 Feb 2010 15:35:46 GMT+1 Fearless Fred http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=66#comment94 Mike (92 & 93) Again, I refer you to my previous post #19 on this thread. You will see that the BBC has reported on this already. Thu 18 Feb 2010 15:08:28 GMT+1 GotToTheEnd http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=65#comment93 Such confusions.It's DMcN's postrate (post rate, geddit?) that is so much better.His problem may be that he isn't a postate (apostate, geddit?)Some of the images at St Albans Cathedral are SO bloody. It makes a man think everyone enjoys gory details.We may not knowWe cannot tellWhat pains he had to bear.But DMcN's pain we all know and bear (geddit?)My grandfather's crucifix sits on my computer desk. Whenever I go too far in a putative blog, the cross piece, with his arms nailed on, crashes sideways, away from the upright. He pivots on the nail going through his ankles. The cross piece is the hammer head and Christ the handle as the holy gavel brings me to order.Blow! He's just crashed! Better leave out the bit about the news. Thu 18 Feb 2010 14:58:15 GMT+1 Mike Coulten http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=64#comment92 p.s. Eddie, I can email you the Excel spreadsheet with all the Iraq oil data, links to data sources and calculations if it might help you tell the nation the news on your wireless show? You have my email address so send me a request if you want a copy. Thu 18 Feb 2010 14:54:43 GMT+1 Mike Coulten http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=64#comment91 So who did win rights to develop Iraq's oil and on what terms? Well, the wiki page on "Economy of Iraq" now has a fully referenced table showing this. The results surprised me, worth taking a look if only to find out where I was wrong in my earlier posts.... Thu 18 Feb 2010 14:51:35 GMT+1 GeeDeeSea http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=63#comment90 Criminals taking part in identity-theft is one thing; governments taking part in identity-theft is quite another! Thu 18 Feb 2010 14:35:41 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=62#comment89 Newlach (81) - see AnneP (38) Thu 18 Feb 2010 14:10:44 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=61#comment88 Looter (86),"works" in this context is pretty subjective. Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:54:24 GMT+1 DoctorDolots http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=61#comment87 75. Big Sister - bring back train guards, and give them tasers. Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:52:50 GMT+1 Anne P http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=60#comment86 newlach (81) I think he ruined what should have been a perfectly good point about working conditions on trains by such a crass class prejudiced remark! Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:39:33 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=59#comment85 Big SisterStick with what works for you. Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:37:20 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=59#comment84 Not to mention M$' prodigious appetite for eating up disk space.... Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:34:44 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=58#comment83 Sis,An external HDD with 500 GB cost me around £50. (and arrived next day) Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:33:02 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=57#comment82 CM: Believe me, I don't have the disk space! Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:25:45 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=57#comment81 Sis, "I didn't pay anything extra for the MS that came with my 'puter,"It was added to the price before you walked into the shop. And any other M$ software (Wurd, etc.) you may want to use with it will cost extra....As to removing M$, it ain't necessary to do so. This wee 'puter I'm using runs three operating systems simultaneously, and has loads of disk space free. (A discussion only slightly less trivial than methods of vermin control);-) Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:21:08 GMT+1 newlach http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=56#comment80 Nicholas Winterton MP has criticised a proposal that would stop MPs claiming expenses for first class travel by rail. Of people travelling in standard carriages, he said: "They are a totally different type of people." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8521510.stm Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:19:32 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=55#comment79 74. MeSorry, I meant to say "Well I thought it was the Pakistanis who had arrested him and so best ask them." Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:17:22 GMT+1 Lepus_Madidus http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=54#comment78 David Miliband with Vine c/o of the delightful Martha.Miliband can't say as as a Minister you've got to know your facts? Dodgy Dossier? Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:16:00 GMT+1 Simon http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=54#comment77 Looternite (67); You are correct on the technicalities, of course. But why was such a (comparatively) trivial topic given over 200 debating hours? Was there nothing else more deserving of the time? I find that impossible to believe.And the agreement over war stemmed from a lie, as is becoming clear from the current Iraq enquiry. Given the truth, and without coercion on the Attorney-General, the debate might have been just as short, but with a very different outcome. Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:13:16 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=53#comment76 When did Third Class end on the trains. I have no memory of this class in my lifetime. Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:12:25 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=52#comment75 72. White_RatThanks, you live and learn don't you. Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:10:12 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=52#comment74 Anne (68) Perhaps pressure needs to be put on the train companies to enforce the quiet rule? Now that MPs are going to have to endure the same conditions as other lesser mortals, they may well lobby the train providers to be more stringent! Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:07:17 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=51#comment73 69. GeeDeeSeaYou ask "What are are they going to charge him with?"Well I thought it was the Pakistanis who had arrested him.I do hope they treat him well and don't torture him or else we will accused of aiding abetting torture. Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:07:05 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=50#comment72 CM (63) I didn't pay anything extra for the MS that came with my 'puter, and I've tried some of the free stuff. But as MS came as standards and I have limits to how much room I have on my hard disk, I've stuck with it. I don't have any disks for MS, so - should I remove it to free up the extra space - I would find myself paying to reinstate it. Hence preferring the status quo. Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:05:10 GMT+1 Simon http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=50#comment71 Looter; It's an acid test of something. A biblical reference from Judges 12. it's in the King James Version, which counts as English.The Gileaditish armies of Jephthah had defeated the Ephraimites and put them to flight. To render his victory more complete he sent guards to the fords of the River Jordan to stop the defeated Ephraimites fleeing across them to a safe place. The Ephraimites, due to a 'defect' in their speech could not say the 'sh' diphtong but said 'Sibboleth' instead. Trying to say Shibboleth when challenged disclosed their Ephraimite identity and they were slain by the victorious Gileadites.According to the reference 42000 Ephraimites were slain because of this. Which tells you a few things; having a speech impediment was a dangerous thing; they REALLY knew how to fight a war back then; they had very sharp swords. Thu 18 Feb 2010 13:04:55 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=49#comment70 Diy, Google google to get the right spelling of google. But don't mistake it for goggle. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:57:35 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=48#comment69 DiY 66, Oh, there are two words, prostate and prostrate? Well, you could have fooled me. The things some people know. And Googe also. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:56:13 GMT+1 GeeDeeSea http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=47#comment68 Regarding the arrest in Karachi of the former Taleban minister, Mr Abdul Ghani Baradar.What are are they going to charge him with? It is an imposed war. It seems to me, that in a court of law, Mr Baradar would have a very good defence: we were busy running our country from the city; some criminal took refuge in the mountains somewhere, we offered to hand him over, but these ‘crazies’ were too impatient and started bombing and shooting at us. All my actions have been in self-defence, like any good, patriotic citizen. I rest my case, your honour. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:55:53 GMT+1 Anne P http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=47#comment67 BS (45) there are so-called quiet coaches on many trains, but I had an interesting conversation with a fellow passenger who regularly used them for work and who said that the train companies often book families with children into them, and also other people who have not specifically asked for quiet. I have travelled with small children on trains and while I hope I can claim they were well behaved, very quiet they were not - and that was long before the prevalence of mobile phones, ipods and electronic games. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:53:14 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=46#comment66 62. White_Rat, Et Al;The reason why there was so much debate regarding the fox hunting ban as compared to the war in Iraq or Afganistan is simply that there was more opposition to a fox hunting ban than the wars we went into.The Tories in particular fought tooth and nail in both houses to keep fox hunting. When it came to the Afgan and Iraq wars they were in agreement. In a debating chamber if most people agree then the debate is therefore shorter, its really that simple. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:51:49 GMT+1 DiY http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=45#comment65 davmcn.....depends if your prostate is prostrate?prostrate was found in the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary at the entries listed below.•prostrate adjective LYING•prostrate adjective VERY TIRED•prostrate verb and likewiseDefinitionprostate (gland) noun /ˈprɒs.teɪtˌglænd//ˈprɑː.steɪt-/ n [C] DiY Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:49:47 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=45#comment64 62. White_RatWhat the cor blimey* is a "shibboleth" I thought we are supposed to use English here.*Other words could be used Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:45:57 GMT+1 GotToTheEnd http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=44#comment63 http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://aftermathnews.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/israel_cabinet_photo.jpg&imgrefurl=http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2009/04/04/papers-alter-israel-cabinet-photo/&h=500&w=780&sz=66&tbnid=PV9yaGxwuKCa5M:&tbnh=91&tbnw=142&prev=/images%3Fq%3Disraeli%2Bcabinet%2Bphoto&usg=__xkACNpBTCKmVjmxCfC1C9Qmgnvs=&ei=tRJ9S-GKN87KjAf_37CKDA&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image&ved=0CA8Q9QEwAwI do appreciate that Israeli disguises can be very good. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:44:27 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=43#comment62 Sis, It's also available on the tube of you....My (rather paranoid) firefox doesn't have any suspicions of the (other) site - It's none of my concern if folk continue to pay good money for bad software when good stuff is available free. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:43:11 GMT+1 Simon http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=42#comment61 BigSis (40); So are the posh, affluent people who look down on the hordes of the great travelling unwashed from the 1st Class carriages.And your (41); Not just MP's. MP's and peers of all denominations opposed the ban. It was plainly a shibboleth for someone, or they wouldn't have given it an obscene amount of valuable Parliamentary time, but I'll be damned if I can figure out who, or why. I think it was a political ploy to gain support from a significant sector of the public who just don't like hunting, on whatever grounds. That's fine, but I'd rather there was more honesty about it.It didn't matter specifically to Labour supporters, or Tory supporters or LibDem supporters. So it wasn't obviously a party political matter. Foxes are vermin, the debate was about the method of killing them, not about whether it was correct to kill them. Are you happy that they are shot dead, instead of being torn apart by dogs?There is a Human Rights Act that guarantees the right to life for humans. The MoD has a Health & Safety responsibility for the people it sends in harms way. Both of those are relevant to going to war. To have spent more than 10 times the Parliamentary hourson debating which was the appropriate method to kill vermin, vs. sending our people to die and be maimed in foreign wars was, indeed, obscene. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:40:11 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=42#comment60 EtE 58, I believe they were photos of the people who used the passports. Not much use using a passport with another person's photo in it, innit? Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:38:40 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=41#comment59 Even used my new printer... Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:36:50 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=40#comment58 I just sent a PM Glass Box. First in ages. They will probably use that bus again tonight instead. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:35:04 GMT+1 GotToTheEnd http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=40#comment57 Who are the photographs of the Israeli assassins photographs of?Who are they? Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:33:06 GMT+1 Lepus_Madidus http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=39#comment56 Perhaps Hague knew it was a load of nonsense too, but we all have to do things we know are wrong or ill advised because our job titles demand and jobs demand it? Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:32:34 GMT+1 GotToTheEnd http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=38#comment55 The British forces in Afghanistan didn't have the courage to remain honourably unemployed.Instead they took the pay and invaded another country.It's the living I cry for. How can they? Are they born of Mother Courages who give up their children for the dubious profit of pagentry and implausible status? Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:30:56 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=38#comment54 LM 25, Somebody here keeps bringing up the Iraqi oil no matter what is being discussed. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:29:54 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=37#comment53 LM 22, My brother went to college in Texas, but I have never been there, and never want to go there.They had a suitcase full of money?! Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:28:06 GMT+1 Lepus_Madidus http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=36#comment52 #41, Big Sister, so if the opposition had actually doubted Blair and and used their Tesco vouchers to see if they could get a reduced cost AA or RAC inspection of the Dodgy Dossier we may have actually had some parliamentary debate on the invasion of Iraq before the event?You go for a job interview. The people on the other side of the desk may present you with some scenario, they give you 4 imagined tasks and ask you prioritise them and then explain your reasoning as to why they ordered, prioritised the tasks the way you did. How did fox hunting get to the top of the list?So employers are bellyaching about the woeful standards of English and numeracy and Universities are having to put undergraduates through remedial courses of Maths, but they banned fox hunting?If we're force feeding the RoW democracy and spilling blood and spending £billions for protect our flaky form of democracy shouldn't we at least try and do it a bit better?Benn and Hague were decidely poor this morning. I'm wondering if Hague was on the pop lastnight. We need a good clean out at Westminster. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:27:56 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=35#comment51 50. davmcnSorry, I made a spelling error, it happens. I do travel second class also. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:25:16 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=35#comment50 No, there is a warning with it, CM. And remember that most bloggers will, like me, be using MS. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:24:03 GMT+1 davmcn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=34#comment49 For anyone listening, the word is prostate, PROSTATE, PROSTATE!!!. Not prostrate. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:23:22 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=33#comment48 Sis,Outside micro$oft, you don't need McAfee. (Other video sharing services are available);-) Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:21:25 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=33#comment47 CM: McAfee doesn't like that link. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:18:43 GMT+1 Lepus_Madidus http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=32#comment46 #40, I've not been on a train for years, but the last occasion there was a group of rather high spirited, slightly drunk men in the middle of the carriage that didn't make for a very relaxed atmosphere. It may have been a bank holiday weekend though.I got a train in Dublin some time between 2002 and 2006 and managed to bag a seat in a largely empty smoking carriage. We got up and moved to a non smoking carriage. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:18:02 GMT+1 Looternite http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=31#comment45 44. Crataegus MonogynaBlimey have they got prostrate trouble. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:16:28 GMT+1 Big Sister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=30#comment44 It IS a serious point, Anne, but perhaps it's something the train companies should take up - by having, perhaps, 'quiet' carriages. Looking at the rail fares from London to Macclesfield, I can see they are already well over £160 standard class, while the first class tickets are more than twice that. Multiply that by the weeks Parliament sits and this is not an inconsiderable sum. Given that all MPs were, presumably, allowed to travel first class, there are huge savings to be made.Incidentally, I think the MP's argument that he will be less well treated than a local councillor is a silly one - he should, instead, be putting the case for them to have that right withdrawn. As a council tax payer I don't expect our local councillors to travel first class (as it happens, in this council I happen to know they are only allowed to claim for second class travel). Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:16:00 GMT+1 Crataegus Monogyna http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=30#comment43 "It can be done, we can multi-task."Even men can multitask;-) Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:05:08 GMT+1 Anne P http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2010/02/am_glass_box_60.shtml?page=29#comment42 BS (40) yes he really shot himself in the foot there - but I still think there is a serious point to be made about people who need to work on trains as part of their job. Thu 18 Feb 2010 12:03:05 GMT+1