Comments for en-gb 30 Fri 22 May 2015 21:19:33 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at Anne P. Thanks for that lucien. I hadn't come across Rachel Maddow before - interesting take on American politics. Thu 24 Sep 2009 15:07:13 GMT+1 lucien desgai Sorry for resurrecting an old thread again but this link is an instructive addition to the discussion. Thu 24 Sep 2009 14:49:34 GMT+1 lucien desgai 27 Yes, but the marginal freedom to incite racial hatred - which is enjoyed by the Americans but denied to us - is unlikely to be a source of empowerment to a black man running for president. Tue 22 Sep 2009 19:00:57 GMT+1 darkdesign Why absurd? Surely freedom of speech leads to empowerment. Tue 22 Sep 2009 18:46:19 GMT+1 lucien desgai Please ignore my post 21 - I hadn't realised that there was a link to the same clip at the top of the thread! Tue 22 Sep 2009 13:01:27 GMT+1 Looternite We have had a woman PM, America has not, and currently we have a Scottish PM. Anyone from the other minorities can entre the political process and make their way through the system. Obama became president because he spoke to and for the majority of the people, not one ethnic group. That I believe is why the other African-American political leaders failed to get so far. Tue 22 Sep 2009 12:28:41 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn Yea, but would they have a bonafide cleaner. We have standards you know. Tue 22 Sep 2009 12:19:13 GMT+1 lucien desgai 22 DDThat's not really what I said at all, I was just suggesting that the structure of our politics (become an MP, then a junior minister then join the cabinet etc) means that it will take far longer for an Obama-style mould-breaker to reach the top of our system.UK laws against incitement are a little more proscriptive than those in force in the US - we ban incitement to racial hatred whereas they ban incitement to violence in a more general sense. It's absurd to suggest that a black person could be more easily elected in America because of the absence of explicit anti-hate speech laws. Tue 22 Sep 2009 12:11:27 GMT+1 darkdesign LD. My real point was about the status quo. I don't directly attribute his election to freedom speech, but that our paternalistic, proscriptive culture of governance that does not embrace such freedoms prevents such a thing happening here. Sort of what you said (not to put words in your mouth, though.) Tue 22 Sep 2009 11:45:48 GMT+1 lucien desgai Obama on the Letterman show - did they take their cue from Paxman / Lee? Tue 22 Sep 2009 11:23:36 GMT+1 lucien desgai *I mistyped! My last post was in response to 18. Tue 22 Sep 2009 11:17:47 GMT+1 lucien desgai 19 I don't think that you can attribute Obamna's election to America's weaker protection against incitement to hatred. The US presidential system makes it easier (though not easy!) for an outsider to break through than does our parliamentary structure which tends to ossify the status quo. Tue 22 Sep 2009 11:16:52 GMT+1 darkdesign Somewhat at a tangent to Looternite at 9: We have laws in this country that restrict the use of racist language. In the USA they have (as I understand it) the right to say anything. Yet, which of these two countries elected a black premier first?Lest I be misunderstood (this being the internet LOL) this is a point about the benefits of freedom of speech, not an attempt to argue that hate speech is of itself beneficial. Tue 22 Sep 2009 11:05:51 GMT+1 Fearless Fred No, PM, the question is clear, and it is regarding peoples (in particular the electorate of the USA) perceptions of the current POTUS. Tue 22 Sep 2009 10:47:17 GMT+1 U14138029 (14) "Try 10 et seq"No, thanks. Tue 22 Sep 2009 10:45:27 GMT+1 lucien desgai 14 PMSorry, I hadn't realised you were replying to yourself. Tue 22 Sep 2009 10:44:42 GMT+1 LionHeartedLion 13Try 10 et seq Tue 22 Sep 2009 10:35:44 GMT+1 lucien desgai 12 Actually, PeoplesMandate, the 'question' here is 'President Obama and racism' Tue 22 Sep 2009 09:24:34 GMT+1 LionHeartedLion So the AM Glass Box quessy is:Would racism disappear if slavery and African exploitation compensations were paid up to the hilt?Spike Lee would like that question. Paxman was boring him (and me).It's the benefits we still get from the work and land grabs we should be redistributing, not trying to feel guilty.Its the social disadvantages of black people here and in the US and Africa that we should be eradicating root and branch. Historical compensations and common humanity lead to the same door. Feel what you like, do what do should. Tue 22 Sep 2009 09:07:00 GMT+1 Looternite #10. PeoplesMandateI am sorry but I am not guilty of the wrongs of the slave trade and so I should not be expected to compensate anyone. Tue 22 Sep 2009 08:55:57 GMT+1 LionHeartedLion I suppose racism is too 'valuable' a 'commodity' to make an exception in the case of a black President NOT descended from slaves.Racism (''They' can sing, dance and run fast, but otherwise....') allows 'racist' America (and UK) to refuse to compensate black people for that slavery. ('The wealth and the leisure compensation would entail would be wasted on them'). No exceptions can be made, apparently to preserve the myths and the surpluses!!!!Whilst we here still owe so much to Afro-Caribbean and American slavery and do nothing at all about the plight of victims of famine in Kenya, where Obama's paternal family comes from) using land rightfully theirs ot grow coffee and tawdry gas station bouquets, we are abusing a whole race and cooperating in a continuing crime against humanity.Declaring oneself anti-racist without fighting for those resource flows to black people is hypocrisy, mere hot air. Tue 22 Sep 2009 08:52:28 GMT+1 Looternite Did you hear Spike Lee talking to Paxo last night?He was in no doubt that just by electing an African-American as president does not overnight mean that the USA has suddenly become non-racist. The right wing in Britain as well as America are deep down racist. We have freedom of speech laws in this country that are modified to keep a lid on racist language. It is not as easy to change thoughts however. Tue 22 Sep 2009 08:43:57 GMT+1 lucien desgai Much of the ugliness (and it is extraordinarily ugly!) directed against Obama is probably a function of the right's inability to accept that an opponent might win an election and exercise power. Remember how they treated Bill Clinton and ponder their response had Hilary been elected president.That all said ... the suggestion that Obama is really a muslim, that he was not born in America, that he is an 'un-American' from whom the country needs to be taken back. This kind of false commentary is designed to demonise the other; a president considered racially, culturally and religiously distinct from the white, christian, supremacist 'real Americans' (it's racist). Tue 22 Sep 2009 08:22:00 GMT+1 Big Sister Joe: I think that's more likely. I remember commenting on it a while back - If I can't get off to sleep, I lie awake for hours, alternatively (like this morning) if I wake up in the night, I usually can't get back to sleep. I think it's having so much on my mind, and I guess that's the case for a lot of people in the current recession. Tue 22 Sep 2009 08:18:07 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn Perhaps its just this epidemic of insomnia that we here about from time to time catching up with you?Not being a Doctor, I couldn't say more. Tue 22 Sep 2009 07:57:59 GMT+1 Big Sister Joe: I'm not entirely sure how to take that comment ;o) I'm not taking anything that I haven't been taking for years, so I'd be surprised if that was the case. Tue 22 Sep 2009 07:52:10 GMT+1 Helena-Handbasket "The overwhelming majority of people ... just want to see some common sense, they want to see some honesty and integrity ... they're turned off by the shouting and the yelling, and they expect more from their pubic elected officials..."I'll go along with that.President Obama seems to have the general population's welfare at heart, whilst shrugging off the poor examples being set by his peers.Shame it's currently the other way round in the UK. Tue 22 Sep 2009 07:50:10 GMT+1 steelpulse Thank you, Eddie.I loved the "before the election" line. I plan to steal it. lolAnd also if you sign up for politics - you sign up to be yelled at - sort of?OKSo maybe that is the downside of that as a career but being interviewed by - well - you of course and others - that has to be ALMOST a balancing factor?Eddie Izzard too? Musing aloud the other day. Brave man.I will get back to you - about a possible future career in politics. If I want to be yelled at though, I CAN get it at hom....... lol Tue 22 Sep 2009 07:42:28 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn Big Sis,could it be the side effects of your medication. Tue 22 Sep 2009 07:38:26 GMT+1 Big Sister You could always send it to him as a podcast, Eddie.I was up at 4.45 a.m. this morning. What is it about these early mornings, I wonder? Tue 22 Sep 2009 07:02:58 GMT+1