Comments for en-gb 30 Thu 25 Dec 2014 02:59:05 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at David_McNickle D 297, I decided to end it some time ago by being silly. See ya. Thu 03 Sep 2009 09:20:36 GMT+1 Dryopithecus David, this conversation seems to have fizzled out. Everybody else seems to have given it up, so perhaps we should too. As Enoch Powell once said, all good things, for some reason, have to come to an end (One of the few sensible things he said). See you later elsewhere, I expect. TTFN, Dry. Wed 02 Sep 2009 23:01:29 GMT+1 David_McNickle Dropthedeaddonkey 295, Sorry. Wed 02 Sep 2009 15:24:16 GMT+1 Dryopithecus 294: Diplodocus? I'm not that old! 10 million, perhaps, but not 150 million, please! Wed 02 Sep 2009 11:58:44 GMT+1 David_McNickle Diplodocus 293, I thought it was Thomas the Tank Engine. Wed 02 Sep 2009 08:30:13 GMT+1 Dryopithecus 291 You could be right about Steeleye Span. Most of their work (including Thomas the Rhymer) was based on traditional folk songs. They extensively rearranged these, but folk songs have always been somewhat plastic. Peter & Paul were quite different characters, so I don't know how I confused them On the other hand, if Jesus were the son of Odin, this would equate Odin with Jahweh. In love & peace Wed 02 Sep 2009 03:28:07 GMT+1 David_McNickle rh 291, Not Steeleye Span, Peter, not Paul? Maybe Peter, Paul, and Mary. Tue 01 Sep 2009 09:02:59 GMT+1 Redheylin I don't think Steeleye Span actually wrote anything. It says Peter, not Paul. They probably thought that Odin was Jesus;I know that I hung on a windy treenine long nights,wounded with a spear, dedicated to Odin,myself to myself,on that tree of which no man knowsfrom where its roots run. [Havamal] Mon 31 Aug 2009 21:24:01 GMT+1 David_McNickle D 288, Coulda been.D 289, I saw it in the Indy. Mon 31 Aug 2009 17:22:38 GMT+1 Dryopithecus In case anybody's interested, Today's report (from August 27th) on the 10th century coin find is at: Mon 31 Aug 2009 15:41:53 GMT+1 Dryopithecus 286: Wasn't Thomas the Doubter written by Steeleye Span? Mon 31 Aug 2009 14:55:02 GMT+1 Dryopithecus 284 Both of your statements should have been obvious (I must be going senile) but thanks for putting me on the trail. 285 Looking again at the symbol on the THFC Members' Club scarf I picked up in a charity shop, I now see it's actually a fighting cockerel, with spurs, of course. I'm an ignoramus where football is concerned, so I can only assume that White Hart Lane must be the site of their ground. It was reported recently on Radio 4 that, among a cache of 10th century coins recently found in (I think) Yorkshire, some were found to bear an image of Thor along with the name of St Paul. The historian being interviewed deduced that the first king of England (whose name I've forgotten) had decreed that it was all right to worship Thor as long as you called him St Paul. I thought you might like to know that, Odin and Thor both being Norse gods, or possibly the same Norse god. (Correct me if I'm wrong again!) In love & peace, Dry. Mon 31 Aug 2009 14:53:04 GMT+1 David_McNickle rh 284, 285, "Herring boxes without topses, shoes they are for Clementine." Thomas the Doubter - 127:3216 - book 78.'This van is being driven by a blind man' - Sign on side of blind delivery van. No chickens involved. Sun 30 Aug 2009 16:00:48 GMT+1 Redheylin The chicken is a blind for the uninitiated. Sun 30 Aug 2009 15:50:07 GMT+1 Redheylin 275.1) The web is full of apologies and explanations of this statement.3) Looking up "Clementine literature" and "Gospel of Thomas" in Wikipedia will get you a long way. Sun 30 Aug 2009 15:48:27 GMT+1 Dryopithecus redheylin: 270 is very profound. 271: "For unknowing is a thing of beauty and wonder .. " Not knowing the dangers of the world around can bring a, perhaps illusory, peace of mind. The pond skaters that live on the water surface in my little aquarium seem quite content just waiting for flies to drop in for lunch as long as I keep very still & don't get too close. If they spot me, they get a bit jumpy. When they get big enough to realise there's a world outside the aquarium, they may try to escape so, before this happens (certainly before they develop wings), I shall have to catch them & release them into their natural environment. Sun 30 Aug 2009 15:05:14 GMT+1 Dryopithecus DMcN 281: Isn't it possible that the table doesn't become more stable in reality; it just looks better after a few pints? Sun 30 Aug 2009 12:24:15 GMT+1 David_McNickle D 280, Depending on how many pints I have drunk, it always works for me in pubs. Maybe the pubs I frequent need to sand their floors. Sun 30 Aug 2009 10:54:05 GMT+1 Dryopithecus DMcN 278: The mathematical proof (as I know it) only applies to tables with 4 or more equal legs arranged in a regular polygon. In practice, it may often work with unequal legs, but not always. It cannot work, for example, if the unevenness of the legs exceeds the unevenness of the floor. It may work in other cases, but I'm not sure what the criteria should be. Sun 30 Aug 2009 10:30:04 GMT+1 David_McNickle rh 270, I think I'll go out and smite someone today. 'The better the day the better the deed.' - Levistrauss 5:01Gill 273, We have a cistern.rh 274, Tottenham, doesn't look like a White Hart to me:HOTSPURThe White Hart Tap does nice Sunday roasts. Sun 30 Aug 2009 08:31:02 GMT+1 David_McNickle D 276, We are equal leg opportunists. But it also works with unequal legs. Sun 30 Aug 2009 08:20:23 GMT+1 Scotch Get Regretfully, I cannot come to your party. My diary tells me I'll be washing my hair that night.......Did you know that bees can't fly?>8-D Sun 30 Aug 2009 03:14:28 GMT+1 Dryopithecus It is possible to prove mathematically that a table with 4 equal legs may always be made to stand firm on an uneven floor by turning it, with one proviso: the floor must not have any steps, however small. The proof doesn't apply, and turning the table may not work, for a floor made of poorly seated wooden blocks or tiles with sharp edges. Sun 30 Aug 2009 00:14:42 GMT+1 Dryopithecus Redheylin, many thanks for the references. I'm impressed, and somewhat overwhelmed. Sorry to have been away so long, by the way - I've been otherwise occupied. 1. He does seem to be likening non-Jews (anyone other than "the lost sheep of Israel" in my NIV) to dogs. Is it possible that a) he's been misquoted or b) he was just testing the woman? 2. These look interesting. I shall look them up as soon as I can. 3. Can you tell me where I can find the Clementine homilies?, also the Gospel of Thomas, which isn't in my NIV? The last time I heard Jesus called Yeshua was at a concert in Nottingham given by a certain Jewish contralto who has since retired. (Yeshua is probably his real moniker, of which Jesus or Iesus, pronounced Yesus, would be the Latinised form) 4. Acculturation is a good word. It could describe the normal process in which a child imbibes the culture in which s/he is brought up or it could also describe the process whereby a migrant acquires a new culture. 5. Yes. I think we're using the word "intelligence" in two slightly but significantly different ways. To avoid confusion, I prefer to use the word "sensible" to describe the characteristic you are referring to. With this small change, I agree with what you say. The designers of that intelligence test clearly made a mistake but not only is it an easy mistake to make, it may be unavoidable. Someone (I can't remember who) once defined intelligence as "that which is measured by an intelligence test" (or something very similar) which is, I think, a cynical but fair description of the problem. Thanks again for the data. Did you know that Amnesty International ( is organising a petition to show solidarity with Iranian women campaigning for women's rights in Iran? In love & peace, Dry. P.S. I thought Spurs' symbol was a chicken! Sun 30 Aug 2009 00:02:19 GMT+1 Redheylin That would be the one true faith, the Brethren of the Common Life of Tottenham. Clad in pure white, our symbol is the sacred White Hart. We do most bitterly denounce the false prophets of the deluded blue-garbed ones, for that their tube-station tunnels be dark and long and their stadium a place of sinm yea, and their symbols the symbols of violence. Yet at the end of the age the Great White Hart shall return and destroy them with its great antlers, for they are naughty in the sight thereof. And meanwhile in truth we do most bitterly and persistently denounce them, with the result that we have forgotten how to play... that game, you know, watchacallit. Amen. Sat 29 Aug 2009 19:56:43 GMT+1 Gillianian redheylin (270) Brethren???!!! Would that be Mennonite, Plymouth, Bohemian, Social, Lutheran.....And what about the Sisteren? Sat 29 Aug 2009 19:20:01 GMT+1 nikki noodle coughs. Arsenal. coughs. Sat 29 Aug 2009 19:16:03 GMT+1 Redheylin "For unknowing is a thing of beauty and wonder: and the argumentation of the ignorant one is a crime against himself" (Gospel of Odin 59622:98475) Sat 29 Aug 2009 19:05:02 GMT+1 Redheylin Viewing religion as a matter of personal belief may lead to personal confusion, the sense that ones emotional whims are of equal worth to experience and that ranting is a sufficient substitute for study. But scriptures support a way of life that always comprehends physicality and the affective as well as mere patterns of thought. Without sustained practice of the precepts enjoined by any scripture, therefore, one cannot come to any sound personal estimate of its value.How much less, then, brethren, can there be profit in discourse between those who have practised every main religion and those who have not even familiarised themselves with their main ideas but, apparently viewing faiths like football teams to be mindlessly supported or opposed, represent themselves now as Anglicans, now as atheists, perhaps only according to whether or not their toast was burnt that day. Sat 29 Aug 2009 19:00:00 GMT+1 David_McNickle S-g 267, Of course, we might offend certain people here by talking about alcoholic drink. Sat 29 Aug 2009 16:06:59 GMT+1 David_McNickle S-g 267, Makes no difference, I never buy a round. Sat 29 Aug 2009 16:02:47 GMT+1 Scotch Get David,Wouldn't you end up with someone else's drink in front of you?Then everyone at the table would have to move their chairs.Odds-on, at least one of said chairs will, in its new position, be wobbly.It's the law of unintended consequences.>8-D Sat 29 Aug 2009 11:47:29 GMT+1 David_McNickle S-g 265, When somebody suggeasted that I sod off, I thought they meant to saw off a bit of the other legs.Did you know that if you turn a four legged table that won't sit level in circles it will eventually sit level? Try it, I do it in pubs all the time. Or use a beer mat. Sat 29 Aug 2009 10:21:21 GMT+1 Scotch Get #264Coffee tanbles are notoriously unstable. Designed for sea-faring craft with uneven decks, on terra firma they are worse than useless.You must acquire a wee boat. Sat 29 Aug 2009 10:15:27 GMT+1 David_McNickle We have two Korans and several Bibles. No combination of any of them are exactly the right height to put under the short leg of our coffee tanble to make it level. Any suggestions? Sat 29 Aug 2009 08:41:32 GMT+1 Redheylin 2601) Dogs - Matthew 15:22-262) Paul - Robert Eisenman, Professor of Middle East Religions and Archaeology and Director of the Institute for the Study of Judeo-Christian Origins at California State University, Long Beach.‘Maccabees, Zadokites, Christians and Qumran’ (1983, E. J. Brill of Leiden, Holland) ‘James the Just in the Habakkuk Pesher’ (1986, E. J. Brill of Leiden, Holland)3) Galatians - see Matthew 6:22 "The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light..... 24 No man can serve two masters." But the Clementine homilies include "Christ has foretold... The two shall be one in universal peace. The outside shall be as the inside in strict sincerity. The male shall be as the female..." Thereby suggesting a version similar to the Gospel of Thomas; "22. Yeshúa sees little children who are being suckled. He says to his Disciples: These little children who are being suckled are like those who enter the Sovereignty. They say to him: Shall we thus by becoming little children enter the Sovereignty? Yeshúa says to them: When you make the two one, and you make the inside as the outside and the outside as the inside and the above as the below, and if you establish the male with the female as a single unity so that the man will not be masculine and the woman not be feminine, when you establish [an eye] in the place of an eye...then shall you enter [the Sovereignty]."3)Acculturation - I remember a study of children solving anagrams for IQ tests in the USA, where the solutions were shown to be much more familiar to children who shared the social background of the test-setters. 4) Humanity - Look at the above. No doubt great INGENUITY was spent in devising the IQ tests, yet conscious or unconscious stupidity made the test result UNINTELLIGENT, arguably because of a lack of common humanity. For such reasons we can speak of a "wise fool", one who "knows more and more about less and less", "thinking outside the box" the "ivory tower" and a thousand other cracks at the expense of unintelligent intelligence. One can devote all ones brain to solving a problem and fail to see obvious effects, or to realise a solution is already at hand. If you like, I was speaking of "intelligent intelligence" and I'd suggest that this means taking stock of all that is the case, and that our humanity is central to the case. Fri 28 Aug 2009 22:56:31 GMT+1 David_McNickle Keep those cards and letters coming in. Fri 28 Aug 2009 15:57:26 GMT+1 David_McNickle I still say free the Tobler one. Fri 28 Aug 2009 08:56:25 GMT+1 Dryopithecus Thanks, redheylin. That mainly confirms what I thought - except for the bit about Jesus likening non-Jews to dogs. This is so unlike what I thought I knew about him! Could you give me the reference(s), please, in case I need to refer to it? I hadn't heard that bit about the dead sea scrolls, but it doesn't surprise me at all. Isn't the message of the text from Galatians just that the members of each pair are equal in the eyes of God? My earlier point was that a child will imbibe the characteristics of the culture in which s/he is brought up, part of which will involve learning culturally specific ways of solving problems. It is true, however, that people tend to identify with, and hence value, what they know. This may go some way to explain why a dying prisoner may be eligible for early release in Scotland but not necessarily elsewhere, it seems. I see intelligence and humanity as distinct attributes, but your comments certainly give cause for thought. In love & peace Thu 27 Aug 2009 22:57:20 GMT+1 dennisjunior1 This is from the Guardian that was posted on BBC Radio 5 Message Boards, to me (so) I will repost it to PM.... Junior= Thu 27 Aug 2009 09:32:50 GMT+1 David_McNickle fJd 246, As we own a Hyundai, there isn't any way I can prove that theory. Thu 27 Aug 2009 08:33:33 GMT+1 David_McNickle Here ends the first lesson... Thu 27 Aug 2009 08:26:35 GMT+1 David_McNickle rh 249, Talking to yourself, I see. Thu 27 Aug 2009 08:13:21 GMT+1 Redheylin Needless to say, if any of the above be tainted with Odinism, then I reject my thoughts completely on principle. Unfortunately I am not in any position to know whether or not this is so. This makes me very angry - rightly so, since I am powerless - and, of course, I blame anybody I possibly can, especially if they differ from me in respect of age, sex, class, race, religion or any other difference, in fact, for to any such, for some reason, my mind appears to be growing increasingly sensitive. Bah! Thu 27 Aug 2009 00:00:10 GMT+1 Redheylin Ephesians 5 "22: Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. 23: For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior."A woman's disobedience to her husband is therefore as "sinful" as any direct breach of the law of the church. When Paul says (1 Corinthians 14, 34)" the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says" he makes it clear he is interpreting the Torah, and such is the case above, I think. When he said; (Galatians 3:28) "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" he appears to be paraphrasing Jesus. Jesus was not much subject to this anti-feminist mode of thought, but did not much help his image as a humanitarian philosopher when he referred to non-Jews as "dogs". The reason the Dead Sea Scrolls were withheld from publication by the church seems to be that they seem to show the earliest recorded Christian community referring to Paul as "the traitor".I think mental intelligence shows itself in problem solving. The mind is basically a problem-solving mechanism. As you say, different cultures value different forms of solution. The disadvantage is; that the intellect is always scanning the world looking only for problems. Another is; that its conclusions are frequently unappealing to the emotions or/and the body. Hence subjection to this "intelligence" leads to psychic fragmentation in a world full only of problems. Religious people often try to deal with this, for example, by "switching off" the body, making the world even more problematic. Others might get drunk or refuse to think - which of course makes life increasingly problematic too, especially since one cannot really "switch off" the mind any more than one can the body or the emotions. In my own view, therefore, intelligence requires self-observation, good humour and the pursuit of integrity of the faculties, without sacrificing one on the altar of another. To be a slave of the intellect is no better than to be a slave of the passions, since both fail to lead to that full humanity which, whether any god has made us or not, seems to me the only outcome consonant with human happiness and dignity. Wed 26 Aug 2009 23:40:51 GMT+1 alphaNapper Dryopithecus: yes, I think you're right. Furthermore, it's become exceedingly tedious, and, given the very poor returns, it's not worth the effort! Wed 26 Aug 2009 22:49:51 GMT+1 Dryopithecus redheylin, please forgive me for mis-spelling your handle! I had intended to check this, but my memory's not what it was & I just forgot about it. Wed 26 Aug 2009 22:30:18 GMT+1 Dryopithecus aN: Don't respond at all: it only encourages him. redhalen: @232 you wrote "St Paul states that a woman's disobedience is sinful" Can you give a reference for this, as I can't find it? and do you have anything similar attributed to Jesus? In other words, is St Paul quoting Jesus or is this just his own opinion? My interpretation, for what it's worth (some will say "not much") is that Jesus was no less and no more than a great humanitarian philosopher (with a small "h"). St Paul was a lesser figure who was great at writing letters but who unfortunately seems to have included some statements that were either his own or (his strictures against sexual immorality, for example) adapted from the scriptures. Do please correct me if you think I'm wrong. It's easy to come up with a simplistic definition of intelligence. (Mine is "an innate ability to solve problems".) It's not so easy to measure, however. A test designed by someone of one culture inevitably includes elements familiar to that culture and will therefore tend to discriminate to a greater or lesser extent against people of other cultures. What is needed is a test that assumes no prior knowledge, the design of which is quite an intelligence test in itself. In love & peace Wed 26 Aug 2009 22:13:07 GMT+1 alphaNapper Zzzzzz.... DMcN, talk about boring... Same old, same old, responding to my posts without the slightest reference to anything that I actually say.#238: I make no claim to run this blog, and have not at any point told you what to say. (Though, since you bring the accusation up, you, by contrast - and ever the hypocrite! - have told other people here what to say on more than one occasion. See, for example, your posts @ 155 & 169, to two different posters). I did offer the advice, "If you can't make an argument without twisting round the facts, then don't make one at all." I think many other posters would agree with me that that is perfectly sensible advice to give, and not at all unreasonable. Unfortunately, it seems to be advice that you remain entirely incapable of taking.#240: That's a good way to win the argument! I'll take my chance with the mods, thanks all the same. I have not abused you. I have responded to your posts with reasoned argument, and have hoped, in vain, that you might respond in kind, as opposed to twisting round the facts of what I have said and otherwise mis-representing me.I might add - given your implication that my behaviour might be called into question by the mods - that you are the only person that I've had any 'altercations' with on this thread; you, by contrast, have altercated with numerous other posters aside from me (and in the process have, in my view, expressed a considerable degree of arrogance, not to say rudeness. The posts @ 155 and 169 referred to previously serve once again as examples). I think other bloggers can make their own minds up vis-a-vis what that says about our respective conduct here.You obviously missed the fact that I've already effectively said I'll no longer reply to your posts. I will ignore your replies to me from now on, UNLESS you happened to respond with something bearing some resemblance to a reasoned argument (which I imagine will be a bit like waiting to have a snowball fight in hell). The exception to this rule is if you make scurrilous accusations against me, in which case I will respond in my own defense. Wed 26 Aug 2009 18:21:46 GMT+1 Redheylin 249 - In my own world-view, intelligence is defined by the capacity of cutting and pasting from Wikipedia. You are therefore a genius. I must point out, though, that, should it at any time prove that the above was at any time a tenet of the cult of Odin, then I future-retrospectively reject my own world-view completely and thus find myself unable to determine your own good intelligence, with the result that I must reserve the right to proffer negative evaluations of the same, should it at any stage suit my purposes so to do. Please note that, should you be able to produce any Odinist statements of faith regarding your IQ, I shall be obliged to take the opposite standpoint. In this case please do not produce objective proof, as my ignoring this will necessitate dubbing you a religious nutcase, which is the last outcome I should desire. Wed 26 Aug 2009 18:06:56 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn 247; I consider myself a bit daft. Don't know what my IQ is so I don't have much to say on the matter. (see below)Intelligence is an umbrella term used to describe a property of the mind that encompasses many related abilities, such as the capacities to reason, to plan, to solve problems, to think abstractly, to comprehend ideas, to use language, and to learn. There are several ways to define intelligence. In some cases, intelligence may include traits such as creativity, personality, character, knowledge, or wisdom. However there is no agreement on which traits define the phenomenon of intelligence agreed upon by a majority across the various concerned disciplines.Theories of intelligence can be divided into those based on a unilinear construct of general intelligence and those based on multiple intelligences. Francis Galton, influenced by his cousin Charles Darwin, was the first to advance a theory of general intelligence. For Galton, intelligence was a real faculty with a biological basis that could be studied by measuring reaction times to certain cognitive tasks. Galton's research on measuring the head size of British scientists and ordinary citizens led to the conclusion that head size had no relationship with the person's intelligence.I think he was just a 'big head'! Wed 26 Aug 2009 17:26:38 GMT+1 Redheylin 246 I am glad to say that, like you, I also believe in the religious supremacy of JC. In order to preserve this belief I have to this day avoided actually watching the film in question, lest reality perchance should compromise my beliefs. Naturally, like yourself and others here, I similarly passionately DISbelieve in several metaphysical systems and propostitions with which I am entirely unfamilar. The cult of Odin, for example: I reject its premises absolutely and vehemently, though neither I nor anyone else has the least information as to the nature of those premises. It makes me feel intelligent somehow. Wed 26 Aug 2009 17:12:48 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn 236 "As far as I know John Cleese was not responsible for the Torah"No, just 'the life of Brian' which, I still beleive is the best comedic exposé of religious bigotry around. Personally, I still beleive that if you travel faster than 25 miles per hour your heart will stop. Wed 26 Aug 2009 17:01:08 GMT+1 David_McNickle S-G 243, I assume you know that his real name was John Cheese. Wed 26 Aug 2009 16:57:34 GMT+1 David_McNickle S-G 241, Wow, you got away with saying something furrin. 'Don't let the rough sandpaper something or another.' Wed 26 Aug 2009 16:50:36 GMT+1 Scotch Get Oh, we're not quoting John Cleese anymore?>8-D Wed 26 Aug 2009 16:48:44 GMT+1 David_McNickle This thread is beginning to sound like Thought For The Day. Wed 26 Aug 2009 16:46:32 GMT+1 Scotch Get NE TE CARBORUNDUM ILLEGITIMI Wed 26 Aug 2009 16:45:49 GMT+1 David_McNickle An 228, Right, I've had enough of your abuse. Stop replying to my posts or I will refer you to the mods. Push orf! Wed 26 Aug 2009 16:33:31 GMT+1 Scotch Get DON'T MENTION THE WAR!I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it... Wed 26 Aug 2009 16:31:21 GMT+1 David_McNickle aN 226 , You don't run this blog, so don't tell me what to say.I assumed NB belonged to a different branch of MENSA.Got some new glasses today, but your posts are just as boring.Nice that you have time to go through my old posts. I still think you have a bit of a crush on me. Want a photo? Wed 26 Aug 2009 16:30:33 GMT+1 David_McNickle fJd 235, Careful, I got jumped all over for saying things like that. How so-called intelligent can insist on quoting the Bible and Koran here is beyond me. Quoting John Cleese is much more reasonable. Wed 26 Aug 2009 16:22:18 GMT+1 Redheylin 235 - I am citing religious dogma in response to friends here who are advancing these matters for discussion, in order that the discussion be well-informed, particularly in respect of any possible conflict with society and law. Such matters are of considerable relevance to some modern western people. You will be relieved to know that, in Vaisnavism; Those who surely seek shelter in me,Even though born of the lower class,Like women, traders, latrine-cleaners,Can attain the supreme destination.but unfortunately;rites neglected, piety extinct-Enters impiety upon that home;Its women grow unwomaned, whence there springMad passions, and the mingling-up of castesBhagavad Gita, verse 9:32 and 1:40So far as I know, John Cleese was not responsible for drawing up the Torah. Wed 26 Aug 2009 16:18:31 GMT+1 funnyJoedunn 234Why are citing religious dogma that has no relevance to modern western society and certanily are not part of British or European law. As regards shoring up prejudiced inheritance laws..."Just think what I'd have had to pay if she had actually contributed something"! John Cleese...Unquote. Wed 26 Aug 2009 16:04:21 GMT+1 Redheylin 233 - Of course, most of this is designed to shore up inheritance from father to son. If inheritance were from mother to daughter there would be no need for men to police women's "purity". Wed 26 Aug 2009 15:19:12 GMT+1 Big Sister Redheylin: The judaic and islamic laws were, of course, written by men and for the benefit of men. Had it been otherwise .... Wed 26 Aug 2009 14:56:28 GMT+1 Redheylin 214 - Both Bible and Quran state that the man is the woman's superior. There is the notorious verse in the Quran that countenances a smack if there is something to fear from possible disobedience and other neasures have failed and so long as no damage is done - it is in Chapter 4. The history of this is interesting - Muhammed himself claimed to disagree but to have been overruled by revelation, after representations from both men and women in which tempers appear to have run high. The wife, of course, has the recourse of instant divorce. In these circumstances the advice cannot said to be binding, and some Muslim communities ignore it while others, of course, get the most mileage out of it they possibly can.The Old Testament gives the right to kill and disfigure female dependents, without the right of the wife to declare divorce, most famously "When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her." (Deuteronomy 25:11-12) St Paul states that a woman's disobedience is sinful, but one gathers that the punishment for this is to be exacted by the religious leaders (and God of course) rather than the husband. A woman, of course, may not under any circumstances speak in church.There is, of course, a great deal of "unsanctified" domestic violence in the UK and I find it odd that, having only recently gained some slight prospect of recourse to the law in those curcumstances, so many have immediately busied themselves in speculation about conditions obtaining elsewhere in the world rather than working to secure the freedom of woman from violence and disenfranchisement in their own comminities. So, all together now, to the tune of "Waltzing Matilda";Liberal agenda,Liberal agendaWe need a liberal agenda for war:With a flick of our wristsWe are dedicated feminists - That's what a liberal agenda is FOR! Wed 26 Aug 2009 14:48:12 GMT+1 alphaNapper #229: I think you'll find that 227 was being 'humourous'. Wed 26 Aug 2009 14:15:00 GMT+1 Big Sister Don't worry, Nick, they'll get there eventually Lo) Wed 26 Aug 2009 13:49:30 GMT+1 Nick Betts 228 seems to be troubling the mod squad now.Thanks for going in to bat (sorry!) for me Bis Sis, but I'm not taking it personally, yet. You seem to have taken some time and trouble to mount my release campaign.I was on here previously but lapsed (no, I wasn't in prison) and forgot my log in details. Now, armed with new hardware and software, and with nothing much going on, the cricket over, I have resumed my commando raids.I see Eddie has quoted my less than exciting wasp report. Having an email read out on TMS was more exciting but the one that really chuffed me was being Fi Glover's first email back on Saturday Live after her maternity break, and personal email response too. :)#227: Do you mean QI? Maybe contacting Fry or his agent would be better. He seems an obliging chap. I did get irritated that he seemed to be Today's default interviewee at one point earlier this year, but I guess that goes with the polymath territory.We seem to have drifted away from the subject to chatter, good-natured teasing and attempts at biting sarcasm, some of for which I accept some blame.What about that Lockerbie bomber just being allowed out to plan more bombings? Do you think he will spare Scotland in gratitude? I expect he'll target Scotland, safe in the knowledge they are a bunch of softies up there and if he sneezes they'll fly him home. Wed 26 Aug 2009 13:36:07 GMT+1 alphaNapper David McNickle:And again @ 222...What ARE you talking about? I assume this is some sort of response to my post @ 196. You seem to be making some sort of an attempt at a clever and witty counter-argument! - but actually all you do is reinforce the view I expressed before that you are incapable of making any substantive comment or argument whatsoever in response to my posts (nor, indeed, to those of many others whom you see fit to take issue with).With regard to the particular point you seem to be trying to 'score', in this case concerning my having used the word 'holy' in post 196. I used the word 'holy' as descriptive adjective with reference to the Quran, Mr McNickle. In the context I used it in, it would mean something like 'held in reverence', and most people with a modicum of intelligence would have understood that. The Quran is a book that is 'held in reverence' by those who subscribe to the Islamic faith, as is the Bible to those who subscribe to the Christian faith. Can you understand that? I made no mention of miracles, or of angels, or anything else. Your simplistic (once again) view of the word 'holy' seems to associate it exclusively with 'miracles' or other such supernatural phenomena, and the implication is that anyone who uses the word at all must believe in all sorts of nonsense and hocus-pocus, and their arguments, by association, must be nonsense too. But 'holy' can be entirely secular. Old Trafford is 'holy' to Man Utd fans. The Oval is 'holy ground' to cricket fans. 'Held in reverence' is what the word means. Yes?As previously stated, I don't subscribe to any religious belief myself in any case (you still seem to struggle with this fact). That doesn't stop me debating intelligently the facts of religious history, just as I might debate the facts of social history or of economic history. But you seem entirely incapable of doing the same. The actual existence of 'God' or whether one has any religious 'beliefs', as I have tried in vain to explain to you, has got nothing to do with it.As, despite repeated attempts to explain it to you, this all seems to remain manifestly beyond your comprehension, I concede defeat and give up. It's impossible to debate with you because you can't, or won't, follow and respond to an argument! Wed 26 Aug 2009 12:33:25 GMT+1 Scotch Get #222I phoned thae IQ folk and asked for a signed photie of Stephen Fry.The wee lassie muttered, "Dear God, not another one..." and severed the connection.What way is that to run a business? Wed 26 Aug 2009 11:56:23 GMT+1 alphaNapper David McNickle:@201: If your eyesight prevents you from reading longer posts, then I am genuinely sorry about that. The fact remains, however, that you're likely to be missing key parts of what people are saying in those posts which your eyesight prevents you from reading in full , and are therefore in a poor position to pass judgement on them.@204: What I observed in an earlier post was that less than brilliant spelling/grammar often seemed to go along with less than brilliant reasoning. I wasn't talking about the odd typo here or there, which most of us make, myself included. Here, as so often, you are mis-representing what other people have said. If you can't make an argument without twisting round the facts, then don't make one at all.@207: Yes, my posts can be quite long. (I would agree that at times I could be more succinct). However, flatter yourself as you might, these posts aren't just for you, my sweet. This is a public forum - other people will read what each of us say and reach their own conclusions. So I like to try to back up what I say with what I hope is sound argument.@208: More shooting yourself in the foot, David! You had a go at me earlier for 'picking on the person, not the argument' (which I refuted) - and yet here you are implying that NickBetts lacks the intelligence to get into a mensa meeting. Hahaha, your hypocrisy serves you well. I would guess that, like me, NickBetts has no desire to get into any mensa meeting anyway, regardless of whether he'd be qualified to do so or not... Wed 26 Aug 2009 11:39:05 GMT+1 Big Sister Okay, so Nick's latest has now been in premod for over 50 minutes.Whyohwhyohwhy? Wed 26 Aug 2009 11:30:50 GMT+1 David_McNickle BS, But one by another has been removed. Wed 26 Aug 2009 11:23:22 GMT+1 David_McNickle BS 221, premod mode? Wed 26 Aug 2009 11:10:16 GMT+1 David_McNickle I just got back from my MENSA meeting and for £50 they upped my IQ to 180. Not that I'm bragging, mind you.Where was I....Oh yes, Jusus is mentioned in a 'holy' book written some 600 years after his death. Now that really is a miracle. I don't remember seeing his name mentioned anywhere else. But then, the Koran was dictated by an angel, so that makes it special. If you believe in angels that is. How many can dance on the head of a pin? What is the color of the feathers on a pigeon's neck? Questions, questions. I saw Charlemagne's name in a book I am reading. As he was crowned emporer on Christmas Day in 800, that must make my book 'holy'. I will treasure it. Wed 26 Aug 2009 10:59:25 GMT+1 Big Sister Yes, David, so can I - but I'm wondering why he's still in premod? Wed 26 Aug 2009 10:53:09 GMT+1 David_McNickle NB 21, A lot of people from India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, West Indies, etc who live in the US play cricket. A lot of them work in the medical profession. I played it twice in Winchester and it was OK as long as I was bowling (I pitched softball for 15ish years). Otherwise, the pub afterwards was a lot better.BS 219, I can read all but one of NB's posts. I think. Wed 26 Aug 2009 10:51:40 GMT+1 Big Sister I've just had a count and he has made at least 12 comments since he joined the blog. Why is it taking so long for him to be 'approved'? Wed 26 Aug 2009 10:43:44 GMT+1 Big Sister Mods, how many posts does Nick Betts have to make before he comes out of premoderation? Wed 26 Aug 2009 10:41:56 GMT+1 Nick Betts Perhaps they think I really am in gaol! Wed 26 Aug 2009 10:39:35 GMT+1 Big Sister So, I waited an hour, and put up my protest banners, to hear that, Nick? ;o) Wed 26 Aug 2009 10:36:25 GMT+1 Big Sister Mods, you've held 214 in moderation for nearly an hour. :-??? Wed 26 Aug 2009 10:27:54 GMT+1 Nick Betts I've just heard the alarming news on Woman's Hour that a man's wife is no longer his property and he is not allowed to hit her.I'm sure this is in direct contravention of numerous passages in both The Bible and The Qu'ran.How confusing. I wonder what The Laws of Cricket and Wisden have to say about it! Wed 26 Aug 2009 09:36:21 GMT+1 Nick Betts Nice to see we have recovered a sense of humour this morning, too. Wed 26 Aug 2009 09:09:49 GMT+1 Nick Betts David (209), Australia had by far the worse of the poor umpiring too. Another life lesson.If America and Libya played cricket the world might be a better place. Wed 26 Aug 2009 09:04:20 GMT+1 David_McNickle NB, Not that I follow, or like, cricket. Wed 26 Aug 2009 09:01:16 GMT+1 Nick Betts And that, Big Sis (206) is a lesson from Test Cricket. The Aussies scored more runs, took more wickets and still lost the series. Wed 26 Aug 2009 09:00:10 GMT+1 David_McNickle NB 203, You can console yourself with the fact that Strauss probably cheated and England time-wasted with the glove changing affair. Otherwise, Australia might have won. (Waits for Sid to reply...) Wed 26 Aug 2009 09:00:04 GMT+1 David_McNickle NB 199, I lied, it's actually much higher, but I didn't want to brag. Orf to my MENSA meeting. Doubt if I'll see you there. Wed 26 Aug 2009 08:56:34 GMT+1 David_McNickle aN 196, If you think I read all of that, you have another think coming. Nice to know that you think so much of me, though, that you write me such long posts. I think you have a crush on me. Wed 26 Aug 2009 08:53:46 GMT+1 Big Sister Nick (203): But isn't that just life? You can't have everything! ;o) Wed 26 Aug 2009 08:52:56 GMT+1 Nick Betts 'Madeit' reminded me, I read a rumour Bernie Madoff is terminally ill. I doubt he will be shown any compassion. In fact his victims will feel cheated he didn't live on for 127 (was it?) years and serve his full sentence.Cheating his investors to the last. Wed 26 Aug 2009 08:47:07 GMT+1 David_McNickle rh 195, Careful, aN will be correcting your erroes and saying that you aren't very intelligent or you wouldn't be making them. Wed 26 Aug 2009 08:44:03 GMT+1 Nick Betts Not for religion. The search for meaning. Faith! Believing in something without any evidence...My Ashes delight was tempered by 'my' Wallabies losing to the All Blacks!Glad to have moved on to the really important issues. Wed 26 Aug 2009 08:43:40 GMT+1 David_McNickle D 192, That could be said about everybody posting here. Wed 26 Aug 2009 08:41:01 GMT+1 David_McNickle an 196, And if you actually read what I said, you would know that my eyesight doesn't allow me to read anything for long periods of time, boring or not. And it takes me forever to correct my typos before posting. Wed 26 Aug 2009 08:38:51 GMT+1 Big Sister 198: I thoroughly agree. Though substituting cricket for religion is something I'll have to think about.Incidentally, we are avoiding an issue here, don't you think? Your elevation from 'wannabe' to 'madeit!' courtesy of Messrs. Flintoff, Broad, et al.Very pleased for you, me, and the rest of England. :o) Wed 26 Aug 2009 08:34:18 GMT+1 Nick Betts Yes (196). You'd have to be pretty insecure about your intelligence to quote an IQ score.And good point, 177. Al-Megrahi has indeed served a life sentence to all intents and purposes. Wed 26 Aug 2009 08:25:08 GMT+1