Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html en-gb 30 Tue 27 Jan 2015 10:57:50 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=99#comment1333 gav they blew up the WTC 1,2 and 7 to facilitate the subprime fraud in case you didn't knowp.s. I bet you don't know anything about banking do you http://www.scribd.com/doc/9421535/Collateral-Damage-Part-2-The-Subprime-Crisis-and-the-Terrorist-Attacks-on-September-11-200126122008 Fri 21 Jan 2011 11:50:23 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=99#comment1332 I notice, unlike your Labour paymasters ========================Gavin you got your dumb labeling wrongtypical.. I'm just plying it coolwatching men try to use I as their toolbut I don't want to be another man's footstoolso a whole lot of them no like me in Babylonme no want them to come wheel and turn me in this land Fri 21 Jan 2011 11:32:46 GMT+1 potiner http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=99#comment1331 So GPs are to be given control of the NHS budget when we are being told they are incapable of organising a programme of immunisation.The more things change, the more they stay the same! Fri 21 Jan 2011 11:30:19 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=99#comment1330 This post has been Removed Fri 21 Jan 2011 11:23:54 GMT+1 thisismyID http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=99#comment1329 "And let those that can manage people, process, money, etc get on with that - because that is what they are trained to do."-------------------The real scandal is not the increase in managers but the fact that those managers can't or won't face down the consultants. They are very powerful, resistant even to simple technology like email and online recruitment. How do you think they've managed to get themselves £100,000 in overtime? It's ridiculous. When they did run the NHS many years ago it was mainly for their own convenience (remember many had and still have private practices) and operating theatres, for example, were never used to capacity and certainly not on friday afternoons. That TV programme "Can Gerry Robinson fix the NHS?" proved it. One consultant said it was ludicrous for a doctor with several university degrees to be managed by someone with only one, or even just A levels. What arrogance. The Chief Executive of the NHS trust involved had just about given up. In some places doctors can't even manage their own holiday rota and won't let anybody else do it for them, so the NHS ends up spending a forune on locums. It is not unknown for a doctor to act as a locum whilst on holiday covering his own job! It's barmy. Fri 21 Jan 2011 11:06:35 GMT+1 Gavin aLaugh http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=99#comment1328 1325. At 10:31am on 21 Jan 2011, gasperike wrote:the tories diasproved of the NHS from the start+++++++It's been said already by others but that's incorrect and they agreed with the need to setup some kind of health service for the nation after the war. Fri 21 Jan 2011 11:03:09 GMT+1 bounce bounce bounce http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=99#comment1327 Don't you DARE privatise the NHS, Daveyboy.We don't want a system like the Americans, where it's all profit/money driven. We're better than that.If you want to improve the NHS, hire more medical staff and cut red tape, administrative times and waiting times. Fri 21 Jan 2011 11:01:15 GMT+1 Gavin aLaugh http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=99#comment1326 1304. At 7:07pm on 20 Jan 2011, Studio One wrote:I was one of the biggest criticizer's of the Labor Government and would have made Cameron proud, in fact ideas pushed out helped the Tories develop their strategies. The last Labour Government was a big disappointment especially regarding the War and Nanny State Laws. (But real Labour principles are sound). Everyone has the right to criticize the Government, in fact it is their duty to do so to keep them on their toes and serving peoples interests. I prefer to complain about the Government in a Labour environment than a Tory one any day. Tories are more one-sided and never admit faults or truths when it is not in their own party's interests, like for example the Global (or Northern Atlantic) Recession was not Labors fault, it was due to blindly following America in the Investment Markets like we did as allies in the wars. +++++++"Recession was not Labors fault"They had 13 years to re-introduce proper regulation into the financial system, like Australia for instance...but Gordo enjoyed the profits and being able to tell the masses he had abolished boom and bust - HA!I notice, unlike your Labour paymasters - you label it a 'global (northern atlantic) recession instead of simply a global recession - is this because you have finally realised you cannot hide behind the word 'global' to absolve your paymasters blame, since it was not global and plenty of countries (who had sufficient financial regulation) escaped the ill effects? Fri 21 Jan 2011 10:54:17 GMT+1 Gavin aLaugh http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=99#comment1325 1301. At 5:54pm on 20 Jan 2011, Studio One wrote:@ GavhavingI didn't know you could make rules about how and what everyone should be blogging about and had the power to make conclusions on behalf of every one else. Aren't blogs for people to say what they want without dictating what other individuals agenda's must be to comply with you. If you disagree you always can scroll on. Humans are not Robots and can't be brainwashed to behave how you and your party like . I bet you would make an excellent BBC Blog Security Guard identifying an enemy of the state requiring proscription in an environment of political repression. +++++++I'm not demanding answers or telling you what you can or can't write - other than, stop trying to cloud real issue and comments with your pathetic drivel designed to redirect attention away from the fact you have no substance or real answers.You seem to do everything possible to try and discredit anyone & everyone that disagrees with you, vis-a-vis, me & I also noted comments were you tried to discredit someone claiming to be a doctor - because his views was at odds with your own.....Maybe this is the reason you gave no reply to my comments regarding the OECD, who praised the tory cuts as good for the economy and future prospects of the UK - because you can't easily discredit the entire OECD can you?.....You posted poems and misleading comments to deflect attention away from this fact but I for one am not fooled by your posturing and posing.Feel free to answer or not - but you, like Labour, are a complete shambles with no substance or real alternatives. Fri 21 Jan 2011 10:50:47 GMT+1 old codger http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=99#comment1324 the tories diasproved of the NHS from the start and try everytime to get rid of it.they want us to pay private companies so their business parneters c an make lots of profit ,with exotortion prices , Fri 21 Jan 2011 10:31:40 GMT+1 Trainee Anarchist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=99#comment1323 Keep squabbling whilst the NHS is flogged off beneath our noses.We will all have something to squabble about when privatisation gets it's greedy hands on one of the finest institutions that Britain has ever instituted.It has it's faults, just like we all have, but you can walk through a hospital door or enter your doctors surgery without being asked about your insurance or if you want to pay by credit card or be redirected to a much inferior clinic for the poor.And if you think this will not effect you then you had better be certain that you can see very clearly into the future and have not confused wishful thinking with reality.If it all goes badly wrong the same politicians that espouse the 'Great Reforms' will tell you that you didn't quite understand what they quite clearly said or it has been knocked off course by those who refused to embrace wage cuts, reduction of holidays, job security, part time employment, reduction in pensions and increased work loads to increase 'profit'. Fri 21 Jan 2011 09:01:10 GMT+1 Chris mather http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=99#comment1322 "1321. At 08:22am on 21 Jan 2011, Soloduck wrote:"So yes, lets reform the NHS - here'e a novel idea - let the doctors manage doctoring, let the nurses manage patient care and the environment, for those of you who need it spelled out - Lets just put the system back to the way it was before management broke it! "And there lies a fundamental mis-understanding about health or indeed running businesses generally. Airline pilots don't manage the aircraft, they fly it.Lets not remove Doctors from seeing patients or nurses for taking care of need. they trained for years to do these things, let them get on with it.And let those that can manage people, process, money, etc get on with that - because that is what they are trained to do."===============================================================Hear, hear. Absolutely correct. Well said sir (or madam).Over recent years we may have got the balance wrong, between clinicians (doctors, nurses, physios, etc.) and administrators. But, let's not be foolish and 'throw out the baby with the bath water'. Any and every organisation, from the smallest to the largest (and the NHS is largest we've got) needs management and admin. Without the back office, as they now term it in business, the front office cannot function.How useful would doctors and nurses be if they had no medications, no consumables like fluids and gases, no monitors, no scanners, if inpatients got no food, if theatres and wards weren't cleaned, if broken equipment wasn't repaired or replaced, appointments not made, operations not scheduled, etc., etc.?Let's make sure that people do the jobs they were trained for, have talent for, are interested in doing. Let doctors and nurses provide patient care, and let managers and administrators manage and administrate. You wouldn't want a manager diagnosing and treating an illness, so why let a doctor manage the budget??? Fri 21 Jan 2011 08:49:36 GMT+1 Steve http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=99#comment1321 1253. At 12:36pm on 20 Jan 2011, Exiledblade wrote:Steve #1245. I'm not sure what the protocol is for, let's say 'calling someones bluff' but I cannot take your anecdote seriously!Please let us know what your DIY diagnosis was and the hospital that didn't investigate your 11 x 8 x 7 cm tumour.At my hospital (even in 2008) a biopsy would have been taken and the results passed on to your GP/Clinician within a day or two!------------Sorry Exiledblade - I've tried to reply with the information you asked for (post 1310) but it's gone into the abyss! Fri 21 Jan 2011 08:28:37 GMT+1 Soloduck http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=98#comment1320 "So yes, lets reform the NHS - here'e a novel idea - let the doctors manage doctoring, let the nurses manage patient care and the environment, for those of you who need it spelled out - Lets just put the system back to the way it was before management broke it! "And there lies a fundamental mis-understanding about health or indeed running businesses generally. Airline pilots don't manage the aircraft, they fly it.Lets not remove Doctors from seeing patients or nurses for taking care of need. they trained for years to do these things, let them get on with it.And let those that can manage people, process, money, etc get on with that - because that is what they are trained to do. Fri 21 Jan 2011 08:22:18 GMT+1 Aneeta Trikk http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=98#comment1319 #1313 Senior Doctor finds it strange “that the BBC news focused in their reporting and questioning Mr Lansley on the fear of privatisation and postcode lottery services.”I find it strange you find it strange. In almost all cases of services provided through partnership with the private sector in the past thirty years there has been a marked tendency for performance to reflect environmental factors. But I do find it strange Mr Lansley's potential for vested interest has apparently been ignored by the media. I also find it strange that GPs susceptible to market inducement, and we know there are least some, are to be exposed to a much greater temptation under these plans. Is this evidence of social engineering of the professional classes by the Tory Party at least on a par with New Labour's alleged affair with the down and outs! Fri 21 Jan 2011 07:27:05 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=98#comment1318 I guess when push comes to shove David Cameron will get his due rewards, he doesn't realize the NHS is bigger and more important and indispensable than he is... so bring it on lets rumble man. Strikes, pah you ain't seen nothing yet. Goodbye David you are our weakest link. Your celebrity days are over Fri 21 Jan 2011 00:55:46 GMT+1 Enny2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=98#comment1317 Let there be cut, and there is cut. Fri 21 Jan 2011 00:21:36 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=98#comment1316 Senior Doctors are the first to go, some have already been let go. If you are really a senior doctor I am sure it is more than a job to you, it is your whole life and personality. Can you imagine how it feels like to dedicate your life's career in a vocational field to be dumped with an enforced unceremonious departure at the end of it. There ares some exceptions for doctors who enjoy their retirements, like there are some who break down from the work overload but most work to stay active and prefer to make their own decision for retirement. The remaining doctors are on salary cuts and freezes and are working more hours already. Fri 21 Jan 2011 00:18:03 GMT+1 Small acts of defiance http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=98#comment1315 Is change necessary? Probably. Carving it up into bite-size chunks to be taken over by the private sector is not only unnecessary but an affront to every man, woman and child in this country.The NHS safe in Tory hands? Add another one to the list of lies from this coalition government. Fri 21 Jan 2011 00:13:25 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=98#comment1314 1313 you really don't sound like a senior doctor to me. the senior doctors I spoke to are saying the opposite. You sound like a political spinner, like Muttiah Muralitharan Thu 20 Jan 2011 23:57:30 GMT+1 bonnie43 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=98#comment1313 To see a doctor of my choice I have to book an appointment at least three weeks in advance. Twice from my last consultations I have been sent directly to A & E,where I have been seen and treated in four hours,with follow up proceedures completed in three weeks.Unfortunately it took another three weeks to get the information and correct medication from my GP!It beggars belief that putting GP's in charge of hospital funding/decisions help patients. I remember the last time we lived under the cosh of the nasty party, they almost ran the NHS into the ground and it took 13 years of a Labour government to bring it up to an acceptable standard. Thu 20 Jan 2011 23:46:02 GMT+1 Senior Doctor http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=98#comment1312 I find it strange that the BBC news focused in their reporting and questioning Mr Lansley on the fear of privatisation and postocode lottery services. The approach makes the following assumptions:-There are no shortcoming in the current NHS services and commissioning processes. After 12 years as PCG andPCT board member I have seen mismanagement and deficiencies at a worrying scale.-The private sector will go for quick gains leaving the NHS with complex cases. So what. Every case is priced according to it complexity and cost. This is not a threat to the NHS providers. If anything competition from the private sector will improve efficiency within the NHS itself. About time too.The following is also worthy of consideration:-GPs and Consultants are too willing to oblige and meet unreasonable demands from patients. Perhaps under the future regime they will start thinking about meeting real needs rather than whimsical demands. -Politicians have a major role to play. It is about time they told the electorate that the NHS cannot meet all their demands but will meet their essential health needs. I may naive but perhaps I will see the day when the poiticians engage with the electorate in an honest debate about what healthcare the country can afford to provide. -Finally ist not strange that BMA and other unions joined forces to oppose the proposed NHS changes. Does it not smack of self-interest preservation to the detriment of the NHS users? Thu 20 Jan 2011 21:40:50 GMT+1 In the land of grey and pink http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=98#comment1311 · 1311. At 8:47pm on 20 Jan 2011, Debbie Cunningham wrote: So we now have fewer doctors, less nurses and less cleaning staff - but lots and lots of management - getting paid way more than the original staff who were quite happy managing their environment.So yes, lets reform the NHS - here'e a novel idea - let the doctors manage doctoring, let the nurses manage patient care and the environment, for those of you who need it spelled out - Lets just put the system back to the way it was before management broke it! ################ As without doubt this is the most sensible suggestion in the last 30 years, and would without doubt reduce cost and raise standards. You have no hope. Because without doubt this is the most sensible suggestion in the last 30 years, and would without doubt reduce cost and raise standardsUnfortunately The NHS is run by politicians not by people with a brain Thu 20 Jan 2011 20:59:15 GMT+1 Debbie Cunningham http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=98#comment1310 Many years ago I worked for the NHS, before the days of excess management and NHS Trusts and it was amazing how smoothly everything worked. It was all managed on a ward level and hospital level, the sister was in charge of the ward - including the cleaning staff and patients were cared for professionally and in a CLEAN environment. The Matron oversaw the hospital administration and doctors decided who was admitted and how long they stayed. Then some bright spark in the political arena got the idea that this all had to be managed - I think their reasoning was that if you let the managers ( who were trained in this sort of thing) manage, then the nurses and doctors would have more time to take care of the patients. Seemed reasonable enough at the time. So along came the managers, who needed personnel staff who all needed to prepare documents which needed more staff to deal with and produced piles and piles of paperwork for the doctors and nurses to spend endless hours filling in - in management everything has to have a document with ancilliary documents to back it up. Before we knew it, most staff spent a great deal of their time on paperwork and less on patient care - the system was breaking down and standards were dropping. 'Oh' said the managers, 'dropping standards - we need to set more standards to manage that". More paperwork!! Then they decided it was not the job of the nursing staff to oversee the cleaning staff - what do nurses know about cleanliness - silly us! Well to do that, required a whole new level of management and ancilliary staff to help them manage and guess what - there wasn't enough money left for cleaning staff and the wards got dirty - but I am sure they were well managed!So we now have fewer doctors, less nurses and less cleaning staff - but lots and lots of management - getting paid way more than the original staff who were quite happy managing their environment.So yes, lets reform the NHS - here'e a novel idea - let the doctors manage doctoring, let the nurses manage patient care and the environment, for those of you who need it spelled out - Lets just put the system back to the way it was before management broke it! Thu 20 Jan 2011 20:47:34 GMT+1 Steve http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=98#comment1309 1253. At 12:36pm on 20 Jan 2011, Exiledblade wrote:Steve #1245. I'm not sure what the protocol is for, let's say 'calling someones bluff' but I cannot take your anecdote seriously!Please let us know what your DIY diagnosis was and the hospital that didn't investigate your 11 x 8 x 7 cm tumour.At my hospital (even in 2008) a biopsy would have been taken and the results passed on to your GP/Clinician within a day or two!-------------------------------------------------------------------------It was a Portsmouth hospital (clue - there's now a brand new PFI building of the same name on the same site). I had bowel failure. So, during my three week stay, I was given laxatives and had a couple of X-Rays to determine if the medication was working. I also had serious muscle problems in my hands, arms and legs but this was never investigated by a neurologist even though it's in my medical notes.After I was discharged (waiting weeks for a bed in a specialist bowel hospital to become available), the paper I stumbled upon using Google was: http://www.indianjgastro.com/IJG_pdf/sept2006/icat06i5p264.pdfwhich at the time I'm pretty sure was on the first page of results given my search term of pseudo bowel obstruction.My symptoms matched those of the gentleman within the paper. But I had lost over 20kg (down from a healthy 70kg).At the specialist bowel hospital I was told they'd do a CT scan of my bowel to see if anything had been missed. Armed with my DIY diagnosis, I asked if they would scan from my neck down. And I was correct in my diagnosis. Once the CT scan had imaged the mass I had a biospy a week later which sampled two different parts of the tumour. Two weeks later I got the results and was told the tumour was benign (a private PET scan later indicated malignant hotspots so using CT guidance for a biopsy on such a large tumour cannot be best practice). However, with a thymoma the staging of the tumour is an important indicator for long term survival (I wasn't made aware of this until after the tumour was removed). So I suspect that my specialist didn't bother consulting an oncologist (if he did then the oncologist is incompetent). That was June '08 and I was scheduled to have the tumour removed at the end of October / early November '08. However, by the early August I was so ill that I investigated getting the operation on my private health insurance (it cuts in if the op can't be done on the NHS within six weeks). And that's about it. When I left hospital I was 7St 2lbs!!! I subsequently went on to develop type 1 diabetes because the toxins from the tumour trashed my pancreas.The question is - what was the staging of the tumour in October '06 when I was turned away by the NHS? I was still pretty fit and healthy at that time. No muscle problems in my limbs. Weight about 67kg. Would I be a diabetic now?Multiple health trusts and multiple consultants and I got there first (with the help of the internet and an Indian gastro team!). That (and what I've experienced since) is why my blood boils when I'm told that the NHS is world class.Anyway, that's my cards on the table. Can you take my anecdote seriously now? Thu 20 Jan 2011 20:17:07 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=98#comment1308 All politicians are whores, but it's a good gig if you can get. The Greens seem nice guys but tax you more. Maybe a hippy new age political party would be the best..: alice coltrane - a love supreme, journey in satchidananda http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DTCRgalGU0 Thu 20 Jan 2011 20:16:32 GMT+1 nativeson http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=97#comment1307 STUDIO ONE Why don't you suggest to the unions that they fund a party to support social justice as there's a gaping hole in the market as no party like this exists! Thu 20 Jan 2011 20:00:03 GMT+1 Billythefirst http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=97#comment1306 1174 : Best post I've read on this topic. Thu 20 Jan 2011 19:24:37 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=97#comment1305 Another example is that the NHS proposals are wrong. - refer to industry experts adviceYou cant push out a wrong solution - wrong is wrong- whether left or right orientatedSo it should be rejected before implementation instead of after the disaster the current system health care is stable, albeit with some degrees of wastageA complete change to implement the Tory Brand NHS is not required especially during Hard Times. A new health care system implemented should be non-political anyway Thu 20 Jan 2011 19:15:28 GMT+1 london Stock Exchange http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=97#comment1304 As a voter and a patient we have been subject to almost 15 years of socialist engineering...now we have capitalists do we really want another 15 years of social engineering the other way? We are sick of been caught in the middle of this two party system which wastes our time and resources.Clearly as a disabled person and patient I am very concerned that the cheif executive feels that closing beds to save money for other medical investments is a good idea!Clearly he gets annoy with people with long term illness going in and out of hospital as they cost cash.....isn't that what the NHS is for?A further very worrying trend is the denial of treatment to long-term ill people as they cost cash to treat?It would be best not to treat them and put them on disability allowance as its cheaper than treatment!!!You don't know half of what goes on in the NHS today!! The doctors and nurses are disgusted..One doctor asked me why I could not stay in his ward longer???(paralyzed and blind)....the management says we have no money to finish his treatment!!!Clearly under the existing proposals non UK subjects are treated however long term ill UK subjects are NOT???Why are non UK subjects taking up 70% of maternity capacity? Does everyone want a UK passport by child migration?Clearly access to the welfare state should be restricted to UK subject's who have been passport holders for 15 years or more! Be more like Germany!Yes good management is what we need at doctor level? Thu 20 Jan 2011 19:09:39 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=97#comment1303 I was one of the biggest criticizer's of the Labor Government and would have made Cameron proud, in fact ideas pushed out helped the Tories develop their strategies. The last Labour Government was a big disappointment especially regarding the War and Nanny State Laws. (But real Labour principles are sound). Everyone has the right to criticize the Government, in fact it is their duty to do so to keep them on their toes and serving peoples interests. I prefer to complain about the Government in a Labour environment than a Tory one any day. Tories are more one-sided and never admit faults or truths when it is not in their own party's interests, like for example the Global (or Northern Atlantic) Recession was not Labors fault, it was due to blindly following America in the Investment Markets like we did as allies in the wars. Thu 20 Jan 2011 19:07:20 GMT+1 nativeson http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=97#comment1302 STUDIO ONE Why do you only run on about the tories/lib dems/ coalition?Haven't you noticed how labour are guilty(more so by a large degree) of all the crimes you attribute to everyone else but?Wre you in a coma or secluded monastry these last 13 years? Look no further than your own political naivete and prejudices to realize why nothing changes in this country.You need to damn the crime and cease pretending that 'your side' doesn't do it. Thu 20 Jan 2011 18:27:36 GMT+1 gee4444 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=97#comment1301 1231. At 10:28am on 20 Jan 2011, Niall Firinne wrote:1057. At 5:43pm on 19 Jan 2011, gee4444 wrote:1036. At 5:08pm on 19 Jan 2011, Niall Firinne wrote:"After all those years of incompetent Labour rule where sevices declined big time, spending expanded exponentially, borrowing (before the credit crisis)already out of control and stealth taxes the order of the day....."I got this far, then I read this bit:" Funny about thing is, If the 13 years of socialist rule had been such a roaring success...."13 years of Socialist rule? You must have been living in an alternative reality Niall as that was certainly not Socialism. It was at the very best, left wing Toryism.======================================I accept that the Labour government was not more centrist and Social Democratic that "old" Labour (thank God!). I am also delighted that Gee444 seemed to agree with the key points raised. ----------------------------------------"I am also delighted that Gee444 seemed to agree with the key points raised."Did I? That's quite an incorrect assumption to make Niall.Sorry to ruin your delight but I need to make clear that most of what I managed to read before feeling I could go no further was, for want of a better phrase, Tory biased claptrap. Thu 20 Jan 2011 18:06:15 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=97#comment1300 @ GavhavingI didn't know you could make rules about how and what everyone should be blogging about and had the power to make conclusions on behalf of every one else. Aren't blogs for people to say what they want without dictating what other individuals agenda's must be to comply with you. If you disagree you always can scroll on. Humans are not Robots and can't be brainwashed to behave how you and your party like . I bet you would make an excellent BBC Blog Security Guard identifying an enemy of the state requiring proscription in an environment of political repression. Thu 20 Jan 2011 17:54:39 GMT+1 Fracking Tories http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=97#comment1299 1279. At 2:45pm on 20 Jan 2011, Robert Sinclair Shand wrote:Getting rid of bloody-minded Health Trusts is very much to be welcomed. But also just as important is the training given to British GP's who are so totally inept in their diagnosis that one wonders how they can sleep at nights. And, it is not only the GP's but also surgeons who fall into that bracket whose irresponsibilities are covered-up by others in their profession.-------------------Not to worry though, GPs will be so busy doing the admin job that the bloody-minded Health Trusts used to do, they won't have time to be totally inept in their diagnosis, in fact they won't have time to do any diagnosis at all.So the overall standard of accurate diagnosis from GPs will statistically rise to levels never achievable before, a 100% success rate. Hows that for a piece of ConDem spin.(Just don't mention that it'll also be a 100% failure rate - lies, damned lies and statistics) Thu 20 Jan 2011 17:33:29 GMT+1 goatie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=97#comment1298 The Tories seem hell bent on rolling the clock back to when everything was available if you can afford to pay for it. I thought it was bad under Thatcher. I could almost prefer things as they were then, just now..... Thought I'd never ever say that.Looking forwards to a landslide election victory for the Green party now. Sanity..... Thu 20 Jan 2011 17:31:28 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=97#comment1297 Those with an agenda want us to hate the banks, distrust them. They require that we hate the inequity in the financial markets and the whole free trade movement.It will make it easier for them to increase the volume of their whisper of a solution, they already know that all the so called expert economist that have been so greatly discredited in this crisis, will jump on nearly any bandwagon to save face.Check it out for yourself, isn’t the answer………..One world currency, one world bank.? Thu 20 Jan 2011 17:29:57 GMT+1 Gavin aLaugh http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=97#comment1296 @Studio OneI'm not demanding answers, merely asking for your viewpoints so others and myself need not make assumptions in the absence of you actually giving your personal viewpoint/beliefs.Maybe you're employing the age old adage of better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt?If so, please...feel free to refrain from answering my questions/comments, but don't be misled into thinking people should take you seriously on other topics comments just because you happen to feel like sharing your view of that specific point or two. Thu 20 Jan 2011 17:20:15 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=97#comment1295 The country needs Jobs not redundancies, 1 in 5 youths are unemployed (i.e. the group with most difficulty getting employment). Investment schemes to generate Jobs are required. Big Businesses showing profits is not a reflection of the standard of life when the signs are everywhere: We are in the midst of a brutal recession, burdened by sky-high unemployment, foreclosures and bankruptcies, shoppers are noticing disturbingly higher food prices. Inflation in commodities, including food – like wheat up 50 percent and cotton up a staggering 100 percent over last year, not to mention oil, beef, soybeans, coffee, cocoa and more, all way up ====================================================The Government should always be prepared to take criticism on the chin otherwise they are employed in the wrong position if they start acting all hurt like Mr Alaugh Thu 20 Jan 2011 17:14:48 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=97#comment1294 Cameron's cuts to the NHS have been a PR Disaster with the general public and industry experts. Unlike his airbrushed campaign posters, smiling away reassuring the public he wouldn't touch the NHS. Do broken promises not mean a thing.. I guess sniffing all that power gave him the vapors ======================================================Gav my comment was only recommending you to learn when to activate silenceinstead of patronizing people by demanding answers to your questionseven a fool looks wise when acting calm Thu 20 Jan 2011 17:00:32 GMT+1 Mark Broughton http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=96#comment1293 GP`s have failed to manage the Flu vacines this winter, wait until they have to manage every part of the NHS. There are now call for this to be managed centrally, well we won`t have that option soon. Where is the evidence that that have the skills, time or inclination to manage the NHS any better than the PCT`s currently do. Thu 20 Jan 2011 16:58:58 GMT+1 Dave http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=96#comment1292 In 2006, my brother died 18 hours after leaving hospital. The nurses said they needed his bed for someone else. No one can convince me that we have the best health service in the world.The NHS is the biggest employer in the world and the Labour party depended on the loyalty of the public sector and those on benefits to stay in power. Thu 20 Jan 2011 16:46:34 GMT+1 Chris mather http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=96#comment1291 "1280. At 3:19pm on 20 Jan 2011, Studio One wrote:The kind of cuts required will need a skilled surgeon and not a cowboy plumber or butcher (figuratively speaking that is)"======================================================A tree-surgeon with his chainsaw???? Thu 20 Jan 2011 16:45:26 GMT+1 Gavin aLaugh http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=96#comment1290 # 1288. At 4:26pm on 20 Jan 2011, Studio One wrote:This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.+++++++++++++++++++++Now now, temper temper Thu 20 Jan 2011 16:42:08 GMT+1 Gavin aLaugh http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=96#comment1289 1257. At 12:50pm on 20 Jan 2011, Studio One wrote:(*) why don't you focus on the real people screwing up everyones livesand not on the bloggers making complaints/opinions they're screwing up +++++++++++And what if you believe the comments the other person is making about the so-called 'real people screwing up everyones' lives' are wrong? And that the choices they are making may be necessary to return us all to a reasonably comfortable state of being?You try and elucidate details from those people commenting and then try and show them that they may be wrong and that they need to settle down and get on with life.Oh wait, that's what i'm doing with you.Stop trying to blame people and just get onboard helping the situation, the torys certainly didn't cause this mess we're in, yet you seem intent on bad-mouthing anything they do.Do you oppose these cuts in the NHS?Do you oppose the tuition fee increase?Do you oppose the VAT increase?Do you oppose a rise in income tax?If so - what plan do YOU have for dealing with the deficit, and then possible the debt the UK holds at the moment?The Torys have been praised;http://www.oecd.org/document/34/0,3746,en_21571361_44315115_46232546_1_1_1_1,00.html21/10/2010 - OECD Secretary-General Angel Gurría welcomed the United Kingdom’s Spending Review released 20 October as a necessary step towards achieving long-term fiscal stability.“Budgetary consolidation is never easy but the timing and scope of the measures balance concerns for near-term growth with the need to stop the snowballing of debt and to preserve credibility,” Mr Gurría said.“The measures are tough, necessary and courageous. Acting decisively now is the best way to secure better public finances and bolster future growth .”You (and the like), perpetuating your myths are the 'real person/people' screwing up everyones' lives by falsely trying to discredit people making tough but necessary choices to improve our future prospects, so please....Stop chatting your rubbish Thu 20 Jan 2011 16:33:03 GMT+1 Chris mather http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=96#comment1288 "1282. At 3:32pm on 20 Jan 2011, anotherPen wrote:The problem with the National Health Service is that it is NOT national. We have a series of local health services, varying in standards because of local circumstances, and varying in efficiency because of local managers. The only national part of the NHS is that it’s paid for from national taxes.We wouldn’t run the Army, Navy or Air Force through local committees and managers. The NHS should be a NATIONAL service – run from Whitehall, with Parliament accountable."====================================================I never have understood what the "local circumstances" might be, that lead one area of the country to require a different health service to another. Anybody know?And of course, there's no local accountability. The top managers don't even have to live in the area. Unlike local councillors, they can't be voted in and out of office.All in all, why isn't the NHS managed nationally, same health care framework for all, same drug availability for all, regardless of where you live? No postcode prescribing. What benefit do we get from local management?Come to think of it, what benefit will we get from a local consortium of GPs (maybe 100 in a consortium) managing the local service for us? Absolutely none as far as I can see."Shuffling the deck-chairs on the Titanic!" Thu 20 Jan 2011 16:32:30 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=96#comment1287 This post has been Removed Thu 20 Jan 2011 16:26:52 GMT+1 shillo http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=96#comment1286 doomjeffs wrote:If the system was so fantastic then surely richer and poorer nations than us would have adopted the model that employs more people than the Chinese Army and Walmart and South America combined but amazingly they haven't.============================================================I bet you've been told a million times not to exaggerate so much. Thu 20 Jan 2011 16:01:46 GMT+1 Gavin aLaugh http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=96#comment1285 1257. At 12:50pm on 20 Jan 2011, Studio One wrote:@1243* now he tells me .. " You are against " [x4]=======================================With a typical arrogance, the geezer tells me what I am againstThat's for me to know and for you to guessAnd in your case it's incorrectly in all cases(*) why don't you focus on the real people screwing up everyones livesand not on the bloggers making complaints/opinions they're screwing up ++++++++++++++++Well, if you had answered my previous comment;1218. At 09:23am on 20 Jan 2011, you wrote:"Do you feel strongly against emphasising healthy eating, Voluntary work, contributing to the state via tax & organ donation? "Then I wouldn't have had to assume - but then again - you only answer parts of questions, and only at time when it suits your own agenda to further a point you feel the need to make.ps. It wasn't arrogance, it was an educated guess from the negative nature of the post and the fact you didn't answer my direct question asking for your stance on it.Typical foolishness from yourself - don't actually state your personal views, and in doing so either;1. force assumptions from others (which may be wrong as in my case apparently) or2. stops the conversation dead until you feel like answeringthen, when someone chooses option 1 and makes an assumption - you can immediately jump down their throat saying they're wrong - wow, how clever - no-one ever thought of those tactics before.....oh wait, didn't labour used to do that....sorry wrong tense, don't labour do that? Thu 20 Jan 2011 16:00:07 GMT+1 Chris mather http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=96#comment1284 "From April, trusts will be fined £250 when a patient is kept on a mixed-sex ward."=======================================================Typical of the way Whitehall tries to manage public sector bodies -- A hospital fails to meet a target, such as all single sex wards, perhaps because it's short of money. - Fine it for breach, leaving it with even less money with which to achieve the standard.Brilliant logic!C'mon. What happens when a public body is fined? Do the decision makers get 'punished' for their failure? No, of course not. The body itself loses funding, thus punishing its 'customers' (patients, crime victims, or whoever). Thu 20 Jan 2011 15:40:04 GMT+1 Aneeta Trikk http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=96#comment1283 #1277 jill lucas believes the NHS should be run as a business.I noted your story with interest especially your chosen words “a job to pay off the mortgage”, “frustration and disappointing”, and yet “stress free”. I think you try to pull the wool over our eyes.I have worked in both the public and private sectors and now for myself. None have been “stress free”, many have been “frustrating and disappointing”, and, if I had a mortgage, all the jobs may have helped “to pay it off”. In the public sector I have had targets and been threatened with dismissal because I failed to achieve them. In the private sector I have had a relatively speaking less stressful job-for-life (which I left because I was bored). Working for myself all the same factors appear, from time to time, depending on who I am working for. The key to medicine is that no two people are identical and where one person may respond quickly and positively another may not. That is why we see a doctor and not a question and answer machine to diagnose our problems. There has to be a human interface. And where there is human interface the nonsense of target achievement is at the expense of quality everytime. The two simply do not co-exist unless the target is itself pure unadulterated quality no matter how long it takes. And sure time is money but GPs manage on ten minute schedules because that is what is announced before you begin the appointment. The problem in all sectors are the hidden targets.Perhaps the most stressful job I have ever had was in a call centre where a culture of slavery operated. Every breath you took was monitored by a computer for every moment of your long shift, often twelve hours worth. Every call was different and yet you were expected to deal with each within an average three minutes. Some days were better than others but you dreaded the day you couldn't keep to the required average or below it and you would be marched out of the front door. That company is now broke; its staff turnover before closure ran into fifteen replacement staff everyday out of a total of eighty staff. You would think that would be a lesson to anyone else but there are call centre staff on forty eight hour strike today for much the same reason. We don't learn.So excuse me while I yawn about your experiences in Surrey for I am sure there were a whole bunch of people making the most out of much tougher jobs than you had. Thu 20 Jan 2011 15:34:11 GMT+1 Exiledblade http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=96#comment1282 1279, Robert Sinclair Shand spoke of "bloody-minded Health Trusts" but didn't say why he thought that!Health Trusts are there to provide the best possible care to a very large number of people in a considered and planned way with finite resources. The new system will duplicate this many times over and quite soon we will have any number of post code lotteries all over the country.The inept GP's are soon to be given control of most of the budget so their ineptness has not been a great problem for them! Thu 20 Jan 2011 15:33:53 GMT+1 anotherPen http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=96#comment1281 The problem with the National Health Service is that it is NOT national. We have a series of local health services, varying in standards because of local circumstances, and varying in efficiency because of local managers. The only national part of the NHS is that it’s paid for from national taxes.We wouldn’t run the Army, Navy or Air Force through local committees and managers. The NHS should be a NATIONAL service – run from Whitehall, with Parliament accountable. Thu 20 Jan 2011 15:32:51 GMT+1 paul http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=95#comment1280 1245. At 11:58am on 20 Jan 2011, Steve wrote:Maybe some of us that have experience of the NHS expect a better service for OUR money?It's not like there's a choice to opt out (of paying).The contributions may cover everyone 'in theory' but what do you do when the GP's turn you away because your symptoms 'don't warrant investigation on the NHS'? That then allows the tumour causing the symptoms to grow (for two years!) to 11 x 8 x 7 cm and spread to adjacent organs. Then you spend three weeks in hospital and the dullards still can't find the problem because they can't be bothered (or don't have the intellect) to look. So instead, you come out of hospital and use Google and the internet to determine the likely cause and then get a CT scan to confirm the DIY diagnosis. The NHS then puts you on a six month waiting list (in 2008) but you'll be dead way before that anyway because of the toxic affect of the tumour on your body.Thank God I had some basic health cover. And it nearly costs me £100 a month now but I make sacrifices to pay for it (including depleting my savings).And as I've said in previous posts - I've seen how the NHS can 'treat' some elderly patients. All I can say is - pray you never have to use the service. You may get excellent treatment. However, you may not - see Debbie's post no. 767.And I'm not a self obsessed worshipper of cash either. What I do want is universal excellent care. This is certainly not what the NHS offers and the reason it doesn't offer this has nothing to do with money either.******************************************************Sorry to hear of your troubles and hope you are now recovered.GP's definately vary in quality, could you not get a referral or indeed a second opinion, I have only once been disatisfied with a GP and changed as soon as possible. GP's are contracted by the NHS obviously you get those that are below par.However you were lucky that you had Private health care as PPP or BUPA wouldn't have touched you with a barge pole with a pre-existing condition like this.I have no doubt at all that improvements are required, I just don't like the bull in a china shop approach by Dave and the ever closer disbanding of what is generally a very good service, after all millions of people are sucessfully diagnosed and treated.Your original post actually mentions opting out of paying, I still maintain that for what we pay the service is incredible covering the Old and less wealthy amongst us, your personal plight highlights how expensive treatments are on the Private, and there are much more expensive treatments out there !So improvements yes, abandonment No . Thu 20 Jan 2011 15:30:58 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=95#comment1279 The kind of cuts required will need a skilled surgeon and not a cowboy plumber or butcher (figuratively speaking that is) Thu 20 Jan 2011 15:19:42 GMT+1 Robert Sinclair Shand http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=95#comment1278 Getting rid of bloody-minded Health Trusts is very much to be welcomed. But also just as important is the training given to British GP's who are so totally inept in their diagnosis that one wonders how they can sleep at nights. And, it is not only the GP's but also surgeons who fall into that bracket whose irresponsibilities are covered-up by others in their profession. Thu 20 Jan 2011 14:45:40 GMT+1 Soloduck http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=95#comment1277 Its funny how the "NHS is full of managers" story has been spun by Clegg, Cameron and the Daily Mail - is the figure of managers within the NHS around 3%, which is lower than much of the private sector?Given the size of budgets, number of staff, extent of estate, yes you will have managers. Tescos has managers, so does M&S, Lloyds, etc.Simply assuming managers aren't needed it a massively naive stance to take. Remember, managers can manage process and/or people.The consortia will need estates management, IT management, procurement management, HR, recruitment, information security, commissioning management, finanacial managemenet, etc.If no one controlled these elements, how would the NHS function? Thu 20 Jan 2011 14:35:41 GMT+1 jill lucas http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=95#comment1276 NEW HEALTH SERVICE – Insider Story!Even though the NHS is not a business it is still accountable and should be run on the same principals. If it was floated on the stock exchange it would not be in the Footsie Top 100 nor would it offer dividends. It is a fat-cat service with lots of money sloshing around not reaching the point of need – the patient!It is in desperate need of modernisation and the general public see it as an outdated service as well as a political hot potato. What the public want is good healthcare choice with Improved outcomes without the levels of bureaucracy. If your clutch needs replacing – you go to the garage with the specialist provider who offers best service, best price, in the shortest time. The NHS is no different!I have been a senior manager for PLC service companies where the word ‘Target and quality of service’ was cast in stone by day, hour, minute and by second! And constant reporting was the norm, if you did not hit your target or return on capital you were out! Following a successful career in the corporate world I recently had the opportunity of working in project management for a Surrey PCT. I took this up to pay the mortgage and also to find out what non-commercial work was like! I was not disappointed just totally frustrated! My work on the Choose and Book Project enabled me to access the NHS spectrum from the PCT (Primary Care Trust),SHA (Strategic Health Authority), together with GP’s, the local hospital, consultants, private healthcare providers, patient groups etc.What I noted was high salaries for consultants and for employees at the PCT and SHA, and a culture of jobs for life, together with what I believed was a distinct lack of focus and direction. Compared to the corporate world it was a stress-free environment with little management and accountability. Statistics from the trust were not sliced and diced as in the corporate world and did not seem to be used as drivers for the NHS business. The activity at hospitals and GP practices seemed to by as you would expect fraught and frantic, IT equipment and furnishings old and shabby. However the PCT’s and SHA’s were divorced from all this activity! There was so much change needed that Sir John Harvey Jones would have had a field day.I really wanted to take up the mantle but the bureaucracy was so entrenched it would have taken the nuclear option to have shaken it up!! Those who choose to criticise the proposed changes should go and look for themselves. I would ask the question that if you need a new clutch would you go to Ed’s motors or Dave’s cars, I know which one I would choose. Thu 20 Jan 2011 14:17:38 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=95#comment1275 Presumably a minimum price on alcohol is being suggested so Sainsbury's can raise their prices? (Lord Sainsbury is a donor)========================================================What Lord Sainsbury the Labour Life Peer is a Tory Donor?, say it ain't so Joe.(he's got loads of money) [ The minimum price for alcohol is probably a just smokescreen for Tory's Cut's ] Thu 20 Jan 2011 14:13:23 GMT+1 corum-populo-2010 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=95#comment1274 "Are plans to 'change' the NHS necessary"? is the HYS question.As Andrew Lansley negotiated deals with private providers years before 2010 Election - how can this question be answered?Until Andrew Lansley is forced by David Cameron to declare those private providers - so much for the ConDems policy of 'transparency'? Thu 20 Jan 2011 14:03:42 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=95#comment1273 First there is the spin and then there is the counter-spin (to disambiguate the spin)The proposals for the NHS are..: (a) cuts in both expenditure and services provided and (b) are not 'improvements'improvements will be made by investing more, and investing wisely Thu 20 Jan 2011 13:59:01 GMT+1 DSM http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=95#comment1272 The NHS has to be changed. Why should IVF/ cosmetic surgery and other non essential medical procedures by available at no charge? These are choices not "rights" and I don't see why my tax should pay for that.The compensation culture also needs to be sorted out. Opportunistic medical negligence claims cost the taxpayer billions, whether through lawyers costs or because it means that people are worried about getting sued.Of course any attempt to change & improve it will be met with the usual hysteria, scare mongering and smears from the left. "Progressive Labour" - I don't think so...... Thu 20 Jan 2011 13:57:39 GMT+1 Chris mather http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=95#comment1271 "1263. At 1:11pm on 20 Jan 2011, doomjeffs wrote:If the system was so fantastic then surely richer and poorer nations than us would have adopted the model that employs more people than the Chinese Army and Walmart and South America combined but amazingly they haven't."=================================================================Sorry, but the Chniese Army, India State Railways, and Wall-Mart each employ more people than the NHS. No other single organsisation does though! Thu 20 Jan 2011 13:56:49 GMT+1 SHYorkshire http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=95#comment1270 “.....the government argues the changes will improve care and accountability!!!"Sadly every change of Government since the NHS administrative reforms of 1974 has undermined the NHS and the principle of care and accountability.The 1960's saw various "Green and White" papers to introduce administrative changes to improve the Health Service which had existed since 1948.50 years later nought seems to have been achieved.The Conservative Years saw 'GP Fund Holding’ introduced in 1991 giving the opportunity for the local primary care practitioners to manage the total care of their patients. Are the new Conservative (sorry Coalition) administrative reforms just 'turning back the clock' over 20 years just because the existing NHS organisations have a 'Labour' label?Let us also not forget that Labour chose to abolish GP Fund Holding in 1998 to eradicate the ‘Conservative’ Label. It is inevitable that the cycle of Politics will see Labour returned in some form to Government. So should the GPs expect the power and more importantly the responsibility of 'total care' to be wrenched from their hands once again?All organisations have to continuously reinvent themselves to continue to evolve to improve. Government should assist that evolution of the NHS, not just introduce wholesale change because of the 'colour' of Politics.Every administrative reform of the NHS since 1974 both those hitting the headlines and the many more unseen by the public cost the taxpayer not only millions of £s but the confidence and commitment of all those employed to care for us. These new administrative proposals are not to be introduced until 2013 - 2 years or less to the next election at further cost to the taxpayer and the demotivation of NHS staffAnother generation of NHS employees and patients will not see, 'improved care' and not be aware of where the 'accountability' lies apart from perhaps a change of photograph of the otherwise 'faceless' bureaucrats at the DHSS; at most of our health care facilities or on their websites.Regrettably the good caring work of the NHS will continue to suffer. The NHS is a 'Political football' and those who are 'accountable' misguidedly have to justify their existence and fail to or do not 'care' Thu 20 Jan 2011 13:47:05 GMT+1 Chris mather http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=95#comment1269 "1234. At 10:55am on 20 Jan 2011, eeyore wrote:A core thing that could and can improve in-patient care would be to once and for all implement improvements in information technology at the bed side.An efficient electronic health record that allows flow of information across primary, secondary and tertiary care would save time, lives and money.Why has this not been so far achieved? "====================================================Great news sir. It has. It's called Summary Care Record.The problem is, too many GPs don't like it and the BMA keeps changing its mind. It's still coming, but maybe 2/3 years later than it could have been, and after a huge waste of money (stop : start : stop : start : stop). Thu 20 Jan 2011 13:44:06 GMT+1 Khuli http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=95#comment1268 1259. At 1:00pm on 20 Jan 2011, Studio One wrote:You are missing the point:KPMG and the Government work togetherKPMG are assigned cases by the Government and CourtsKPMG are extortionately expensive, with runaway astronomical costsKPMG have been accused and charged of wrong doings several times in Court and use legal bullying tactics to vigorously deny charges showing no transparencyThere are conflicts of issues raised about the incestuos recommendations of various big firms------------I'm not missing the point. The original statement was that the changes to the NHS were only happening because the conservative party received a donation. Presumably a minimum price on alcohol is being suggested so Sainsbury's can raise their prices? (Lord Sainsbury is a donor) Thu 20 Jan 2011 13:35:34 GMT+1 hardworkedandunderpaid http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=94#comment1267 I totally disagree with these changes. GPs are individuals sitting in there little surgeries.1. I am sure if GPs wanted to be accountants they would have chosen that as a career.2. (And I am NOT saying any GP is) but with such large sums at their fingertips, it is too easy for them or their appointed managers to become corrupt.The NHS can cut costs easily. I have several health issues and have spent much time in hospital waiting rooms.Observation on last visit: 3 receptionists to book in 5 patients an hour. (I had a 2.5 hour wait) 2 fully qualified nurses handing patients folders to registrars and consultants as patients were called in.2 full qualified Nurses to take weight and blood pressure for same 5 patients per hour. All in all 7 staff to deal with 5 patients per hour!My last hopsital appointment took 7 people to arrange! I had to see my GP (1), who told his secretary (2), who gave a form to the receptionist (3) that I had to collect and go on-line to organise (3) - website failed. Had to call appointment booking centre (4) who couldn't help as this particular clinic was overbooked and not making any more appointments. Called clinic and spoke to receptionist (5) who called her boss, who called me back (6) and arranged for clinician to contact me the next day with an appointment (7)! How is that for GROSS in efficiency. God knows how much it costs as no doubt each person has to have trining, a phone, a computer, means more work for the payrole dept, plus they get pension benefits etc etc.I could fix this problem overnight.Totally agree with removing PCT's.I am 100% healthcare will get more expensive and I 100% believe that the day is drawing very close when we have to pay to go to the GP. Thu 20 Jan 2011 13:29:33 GMT+1 ELENAKL http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=94#comment1266 1254. At 12:39pm on 20 Jan 2011, Steve wrote:My husband is over 70, so eligible for the flu jabs, normal and swine, he was contacted and given an appointment to have them by our practice, it is up to the individual whether they actually attend, which he did, so obviously some GPs are looking after their patients in this way.-------------------------------------------------------------------------Same here. And all clinical staff were on duty during the Saturday morning I went, jabbing people with production line efficiency. Excellent. They should be proud of themselves.I must admit that I think again it was just trouble making by the media / opposition party regarding the advertising campaign. I know that each October I need to get a jab. I ensure both my parents get one too. The people that need to be targetted are the vunerable groups who need reminding and those that newly come into the risk categories. But again, I'm sure this could be handled by the surgeries in a far more cost effective way than blanket TV / Radio advertising.--I agree, too much money is spent on expensive advertising, when there are alternatives, we should not have to be told through that medium that we should ask our GPs for the flu jabs, cervical smear tests are not advertised in that way, your GP sends you a reminder when it is due. There are lots of ways of letting people know these things, when I make an appointment nowadays they send me a sms to remind me, it must be much more cost efficient than advertising and people missing appointments. Thu 20 Jan 2011 13:24:47 GMT+1 GDubz http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=94#comment1265 Labour, Lib Dems and Conservative.... whoever we voted in would lie to get there.People on here seem shocked the politicians promised one thing and delivered another. Politics has always been this way!!!!!!!!!!Time to vote in an alternative party, not one of the main 3.... give someone else a crack, they cant do any worse.I fail to understand how the most heavily taxed country in Europe fails to cover its outgoings. Government officials are over paid, the rich are always protected and spending cuts are made in all the wrong places.Healthcare, education and policing should never be cut. Bring our boys home from Afghanistan, saves billions. Stop immigration as we cant cope with the numbers we already have (unless they speak fluent English and are a needed occupation i.e. doctors etc).Clamp down on immigrants who are here who shouldnt be and assess the benefit they are giving to society. Any drain on benefit and the NHS should be shipped out or made to work.Benefits should be paid out on the basis of NI/Tax contributions to stop freeloading. Any benefit cheats should be given stricter punishments to make the risk unattractive.Stop paying into the EU Thu 20 Jan 2011 13:22:54 GMT+1 Chris mather http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=94#comment1264 "1215. At 09:18am on 20 Jan 2011, Peter wrote:I'm waiting for a knee replacement and believe that the Tier 1 arrangements in North Hampshire have the sole purpose of delaying access to orthopaedic specialists. Giving my GP the power to commission my operation directly from a consultant sounds like a good idea to me."=================================================================Unfortunately Peter, that won't happen. Your GP, as an individual and in relation to an individual patient, will have no more power than he/she has now.What will ACTUALLY happen is this -- Public health functions transferred across to Local Authorities- All other functions of PCTs remain (largely commissioning)- PCTs divided up and given to a number of GP consortia.- Instead of a handful of very experienced health administration professionals being in charge of the (mini)PCT, around 100 GPs, or their chosen representatives, will be. Same staff, same budget, same old.A single GP will have little more say than he/she has now. Thu 20 Jan 2011 13:22:00 GMT+1 ELENAKL http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=94#comment1263 Over the last few years I have lost family members, my father 11 years ago, totally neglected by the NHS and his GP was a waste of time, diagnosed him with pneumonia then gave him a flu jab, he was dead 3 days later, he was 73. 4 years ago my brother died at the age of 43, he had drinking problems and depression, but was sent home after a few days of rehab only to hit the bottle again, it took forever to actually get him into any kind of care in the first place! However, he did not die of alcohol related reasons, in fact we have no idea how or why he died, the coroner could not give any reason. Last year my sister-in-law, aged 51 died after being diagnosed with a tumour in her kidney, that was removed, but she did not receive the aftercare the consultant prescribed (hospital bungling) and she got a secondary tumour, which was the size of 2 rugby balls. She had been complaining of pain for years and just got fobbed off all the time, 'it's probably IBS' etc. Now her 3 children have no mother and my brother has lost his wife, some NHS! The hospital she was treated in does have a lovely new extension though, with cafes, shops a large atrium and everything numbered and coloured! Thu 20 Jan 2011 13:19:31 GMT+1 doomjeffs http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=94#comment1262 If the system was so fantastic then surely richer and poorer nations than us would have adopted the model that employs more people than the Chinese Army and Walmart and South America combined but amazingly they haven't. Thu 20 Jan 2011 13:11:12 GMT+1 jill lucas http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=94#comment1261 NEW HEALTH SERVICE – Insider Story!Even though the NHS is not a business it is still accountable and should be run on the same principals. If it was floated on the stock exchange it would not be in the Footsie Top 100 nor would it offer dividends. It is a fat-cat service with lots of money sloshing around not reaching the point of need – the patient!It is in desperate need of modernisation and the general public see it as an outdated service as well as a political hot potato. What the public want is good healthcare choice with Improved outcomes without the levels of bureaucracy. If your clutch needs replacing – you go to the garage with the specialist provider who offers best service, best price, in the shortest time. The NHS is no different!I have been a senior manager for PLC service companies where the word ‘Target and quality of service’ was cast in stone by day, hour, minute and by second! And constant reporting was the norm, if you did not hit your target or return on capital you were out! Following a successful career in the corporate world I recently had the opportunity of working in project management for a Surrey PCT. I took this up to pay the mortgage and also to find out what non-commercial work was like! I was not disappointed just totally frustrated! My work on the Choose and Book Project enabled me to access the NHS spectrum from the PCT (Primary Care Trust),SHA (Strategic Health Authority), together with GP’s, the local hospital, consultants, private healthcare providers, patient groups etc.What I noted was high salaries for consultants and for employees at the PCT and SHA, and a culture of jobs for life, together with what I believed was a distinct lack of focus and direction. Compared to the corporate world it was a stress-free environment with little management and accountability. Statistics from the trust were not sliced and diced as in the corporate world and did not seem to be used as drivers for the NHS business. The activity at hospitals and GP practices seemed to by as you would expect fraught and frantic, IT equipment and furnishings old and shabby. However the PCT’s and SHA’s were divorced from all this activity! There was so much change needed that Sir John Harvey Jones would have had a field day.I really wanted to take up the mantle but the bureaucracy was so entrenched it would have taken the nuclear option to have shaken it up!! Those who choose to criticise the proposed changes should go and look for themselves. I would ask the question that if you need a new clutch would you go to Ed’s motors or Dave’s cars, I know which one I would choose.Name and address provided[Personal details removed by Moderator] Thu 20 Jan 2011 13:10:20 GMT+1 PamSN http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=94#comment1260 The proposed changes to the NHS are nonsense and bound to be more expensive - Drs are not Managers (I am one and I know the types of skills you need to be one - very different from the skills you need to be a Dr) and so each practice would have to employ a manager to manage the budgets and referrals (which would create more managers rather than fewer!). Also, hospitals won't be able to strategically plan their services (which is essential!!) and be able to count on long term investment - this will mean that services and equipment stagnate and become outdated. Hospitals will have to employ marketing teams in order to attract Drs (again more expense). And finally (in my very short and topline list), I wouldn't trust my Dr with anything - I don't even know who my Dr is, and even if I had met them I suspect they don't speak very good English and therefore will not be able to manage any of the new systems and processes (which will probably require a degree in English simply to understand what's going on!) themselves, and so will spend less time on patient care and more time on admin.This is a recipe for disaster! Thu 20 Jan 2011 13:03:50 GMT+1 Jim Page http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=94#comment1259 #1234 Eeeore At last some sense rather than ranting on about the NHS being destroyedWhat a good idea about trying to sort out the IT mess by having the patient's information at the bedside - just a thought, now that most people have mobile phones and an increasing number have smart phones - could not everyone keep their medical details on an application on their phone? Then everyone from themselves to the doctors and nurses and their nearest and dearest could keep an eye on them and comment on their care! All posted to some secure cloud in the NHS sky?There is a distinction between public health and individual/personal care and I don't see a conflict between GPs looking after the latter and central/local government looking after public health issues such as clean water and immunisation. There is a need for closer liaison between local government and public health which seems to be part of the coalition policy.We can afford to have world class public health where Britain has been at the forefront ever since we started building decent sewers in London 150 years ago.However, no country in the world can/has been able to provide "ideal" individual/personal health care for all using all the expensive possibilities that modern medicine has at its disposal. It is unaffordable both in terms of finance and in terms of the number of highly skilled people required. So there must be priorities set and this is what the public and its politicians have not faced up to honestlyBut what comes over so often in these posts is that it is CARING which seems to be missed so many times and the fact that so many of us expect the state to be caring. That paternalist view is not tenable. It is the people around the individual who need to be caring and as Eeeore pointed out it is the bureaucracy imposed by the state that now comes between the carer and the patient. Thu 20 Jan 2011 13:02:13 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=94#comment1258 1252. At 12:30pm on 20 Jan 2011, Khuli wrote:1135. At 8:56pm on 19 Jan 2011, Lucy Clake wrote:For all those who think that there is no connection between donations to the Tory Party and these changes to the NHS. I suggest you look into the connection between KPMG the company who are running the Pathfinder GP consortium and their massive donations to the Cons. Just one example--------------KPMG are an audit, tax & advisory company - basically one of the world's largest accountancy firms - they are not a healthcare company. The conservatives get donations from PriceWaterhouse and Deloittes too.It's pure invention to think that the conservatives are changing the biggest system in the UK in exchange for a donation which is a small percentage of the total they receive.================================================You are missing the point:KPMG and the Government work togetherKPMG are assigned cases by the Government and CourtsKPMG are extortionately expensive, with runaway astronomical costsKPMG have been accused and charged of wrong doings several times in Court and use legal bullying tactics to vigorously deny charges showing no transparencyThere are conflicts of issues raised about the incestuos recommendations of various big firms Thu 20 Jan 2011 13:00:26 GMT+1 LondonHarris http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=94#comment1257 1251. At 12:26pm on 20 Jan 2011, Steve wrote:1216. At 09:21am on 20 Jan 2011, steve wrote:I have a number of friends who work in the health service. One of them wanted a diary planner hung on the wall. Cost to hammer the nail into the wall - £25. Annual cost of maintaining the nail in the wall - £15.The problem is that most public sector workers do not have the first clue how to obtain a value for money contract with the private sector. And anyway, what's a few billion pounds here and there when it's not your money. Just a few more noughts.--------------------Utter nonsense.My wife is a senior clinical nurse at a major London Hospital and her officer required a planner. She bought this at a local shop for £3 and it is stuck on the wall with Blue tack! No special training or staff were required to install this !Cost of maintenance none, annual cost, new planner, might be possible to recycle the blue tack!This constant nonsense about how profligate the public sector is, is just a method of masking the huge cuts that are going to remove the livelihood of upwards of 200,000 people with huge impacts on their families including 30,000+ clinical front line staff in the NHS-------------------------------------------------------------------------Perhaps if you'd have read my original post properly (no. 25) and not the part that 'colonelblimp' cut and shut in no. 1191 then you'd realise that I was talking about the cost of getting anything done once services are privatised.However, I will continue to reiterate the point that Labour got us into bed with the private sector to the tune of £65 billion for roughly £11 billion of infrastructure and services. That's health alone - total PFI spend is £250 billion for £50 billion of infrastructure and services.That's LABOUR. P(robably) F(und) I(ndefinately) was the panacea to all our problems. Not. Just as bad as the Tories selling rail and the utilities. Get it?-------------------------------------------------------It was under the John Major Conservative Administration when PFI was introduced, so therefore if you have any gripe against PFI then lets be hearing you Con-Dem those originally responsible, and yes, - Get it, RIGHT. Thu 20 Jan 2011 12:52:36 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=94#comment1256 @1243* now he tells me .. " You are against " [x4]=======================================With a typical arrogance, the geezer tells me what I am againstThat's for me to know and for you to guessAnd in your case it's incorrectly in all cases(*) why don't you focus on the real people screwing up everyones livesand not on the bloggers making complaints/opinions they're screwing up Thu 20 Jan 2011 12:50:43 GMT+1 Gavin aLaugh http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=94#comment1255 1248. At 12:22pm on 20 Jan 2011, Studio One wrote:you are against the government emphasising voluntary work, where people will meet other members of the community and possibly make new friends, possibly club together and grit pavements during winter if the councils are overstretched for example?==============================Do you mean forced voluntary work by the DWP for no pay (charity scams, check the newspapers). My Dad and Brother are kidney surgeons and my Dad is on the board of the Royal College of Surgeons so I heard about kidney donations around the diner table my whole life. I've even handed a kidney over to Securicor. The Common Purpose blurb published on the internet was exposing the Brain Washing that Big Businesses and David Cameron are practicing on the sly and is available in the public domain+++++++++++++++++++++So no response about healthy eating and tax collection?RE: Donations - that's very good, however that still doesn't explain what you have against a default opted-in (which you can always opt-out of)RE: Voluntary work - it wouldn't be for no pay - it would be for the receipt of jobseekers' benefits , after all people are trying to look for work right? As for the scams - are you saying that if any idea has been able to be scammed we should all be put off? Are you saying that by educating people we couldn't help them avoid scams?I'm surprised you haven't said it breaches someones' human rights yet... Thu 20 Jan 2011 12:49:18 GMT+1 Cobbett_Rides_Again http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=94#comment1254 GPs should be attending to patients, not bean-counting - that is what clerks are for (though most of them, especially in commercial companies are now called "managers"!) Thu 20 Jan 2011 12:48:33 GMT+1 Steve http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=93#comment1253 1241. At 11:45am on 20 Jan 2011, ELENAKL wrote:1211. At 08:51am on 20 Jan 2011, BaconandEgg2wice wrote:1202. At 08:08am on 20 Jan 2011, Steve wrote:----------------------------------------------------------------Or, the vermin UK media spent months scaring the population about this year's flu jab containing the Swine Flu vaccine. Result - lower than normal take up. No surprise.In late December / early January, the same vermin media then makes public that people are dying of flu (which 250-300 do unfortunately each year in the UK - I'd like to see if it's even out of pattern with previous years). Result - those that didn't get the jab because they had been terrified about the Swine Flu element of the vaccine now rush round like zombies because they're more concerned about dying! No surprise.You can't plan for out of pattern demand.It's the vermin media that should be ashamed of themselves but they've moved on to something else by now.------------Whilst I agree the media are mostly vermin, you can't blame them for deciding not to carry out the advertising campaign that was carried out last year, and was carried out in Wales and Scotland this year. That was a gov't decision, and undoubtedly contributed significantly to the slow take up of the flew jabs in the first place. Maybe doctors should have contacted eligible patients direct, probably cheaper than a national advertising campaign and makes sure those who need are informed in good time. But then, what if everybody turned up in the first few days for their jab? presumably the same shortages would have been evident.---My husband is over 70, so eligible for the flu jabs, normal and swine, he was contacted and given an appointment to have them by our practice, it is up to the individual whether they actually attend, which he did, so obviously some GPs are looking after their patients in this way.-------------------------------------------------------------------------Same here. And all clinical staff were on duty during the Saturday morning I went, jabbing people with production line efficiency. Excellent. They should be proud of themselves.I must admit that I think again it was just trouble making by the media / opposition party regarding the advertising campaign. I know that each October I need to get a jab. I ensure both my parents get one too. The people that need to be targetted are the vunerable groups who need reminding and those that newly come into the risk categories. But again, I'm sure this could be handled by the surgeries in a far more cost effective way than blanket TV / Radio advertising. Thu 20 Jan 2011 12:39:40 GMT+1 Exiledblade http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=93#comment1252 Steve #1245. I'm not sure what the protocol is for, let's say 'calling someones bluff' but I cannot take your anecdote seriously!Please let us know what your DIY diagnosis was and the hospital that didn't investigate your 11 x 8 x 7 cm tumour.At my hospital (even in 2008) a biopsy would have been taken and the results passed on to your GP/Clinician within a day or two! Thu 20 Jan 2011 12:36:19 GMT+1 Khuli http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=93#comment1251 1135. At 8:56pm on 19 Jan 2011, Lucy Clake wrote:For all those who think that there is no connection between donations to the Tory Party and these changes to the NHS. I suggest you look into the connection between KPMG the company who are running the Pathfinder GP consortium and their massive donations to the Cons. Just one example--------------KPMG are an audit, tax & advisory company - basically one of the world's largest accountancy firms - they are not a healthcare company. The conservatives get donations from PriceWaterhouse and Deloittes too.It's pure invention to think that the conservatives are changing the biggest system in the UK in exchange for a donation which is a small percentage of the total they receive. Thu 20 Jan 2011 12:30:13 GMT+1 Steve http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=93#comment1250 1216. At 09:21am on 20 Jan 2011, steve wrote:I have a number of friends who work in the health service. One of them wanted a diary planner hung on the wall. Cost to hammer the nail into the wall - £25. Annual cost of maintaining the nail in the wall - £15.The problem is that most public sector workers do not have the first clue how to obtain a value for money contract with the private sector. And anyway, what's a few billion pounds here and there when it's not your money. Just a few more noughts.--------------------Utter nonsense.My wife is a senior clinical nurse at a major London Hospital and her officer required a planner. She bought this at a local shop for £3 and it is stuck on the wall with Blue tack! No special training or staff were required to install this !Cost of maintenance none, annual cost, new planner, might be possible to recycle the blue tack!This constant nonsense about how profligate the public sector is, is just a method of masking the huge cuts that are going to remove the livelihood of upwards of 200,000 people with huge impacts on their families including 30,000+ clinical front line staff in the NHS-------------------------------------------------------------------------Perhaps if you'd have read my original post properly (no. 25) and not the part that 'colonelblimp' cut and shut in no. 1191 then you'd realise that I was talking about the cost of getting anything done once services are privatised.However, I will continue to reiterate the point that Labour got us into bed with the private sector to the tune of £65 billion for roughly £11 billion of infrastructure and services. That's health alone - total PFI spend is £250 billion for £50 billion of infrastructure and services.That's LABOUR. P(robably) F(und) I(ndefinately) was the panacea to all our problems. Not. Just as bad as the Tories selling rail and the utilities. Get it? Thu 20 Jan 2011 12:26:54 GMT+1 BaconandEgg2wice http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=93#comment1249 1241. At 11:45am on 20 Jan 2011, ELENAKL wrote:1211. At 08:51am on 20 Jan 2011, BaconandEgg2wice wrote:1202. At 08:08am on 20 Jan 2011, Steve wrote:----------------------------------------------------------------Or, the vermin UK media spent months scaring the population about this year's flu jab containing the Swine Flu vaccine. Result - lower than normal take up. No surprise.In late December / early January, the same vermin media then makes public that people are dying of flu (which 250-300 do unfortunately each year in the UK - I'd like to see if it's even out of pattern with previous years). Result - those that didn't get the jab because they had been terrified about the Swine Flu element of the vaccine now rush round like zombies because they're more concerned about dying! No surprise.You can't plan for out of pattern demand.It's the vermin media that should be ashamed of themselves but they've moved on to something else by now.------------Whilst I agree the media are mostly vermin, you can't blame them for deciding not to carry out the advertising campaign that was carried out last year, and was carried out in Wales and Scotland this year. That was a gov't decision, and undoubtedly contributed significantly to the slow take up of the flew jabs in the first place. Maybe doctors should have contacted eligible patients direct, probably cheaper than a national advertising campaign and makes sure those who need are informed in good time. But then, what if everybody turned up in the first few days for their jab? presumably the same shortages would have been evident.---My husband is over 70, so eligible for the flu jabs, normal and swine, he was contacted and given an appointment to have them by our practice, it is up to the individual whether they actually attend, which he did, so obviously some GPs are looking after their patients in this way.------------My surgery didn't contact me, but I was lucky, when I asked for it, they had them in stock and I got it the next day.Was just really pointing out this is one thing you can't blame the media for. And apologies for my spelling of flu, that was terrible. Thu 20 Jan 2011 12:26:00 GMT+1 RG http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=93#comment1248 Lets face it the private sector will be the only benefactor of this policy - acid test, you and I will have to battle with the GP's to get treatment, as we currently have to - so nothing will hyave changed - MP's and Coatlition partners will be guarnteed instant treatment at private hospital - - how wonderful to be in power! Thu 20 Jan 2011 12:25:10 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=93#comment1247 you are against the government emphasising voluntary work, where people will meet other members of the community and possibly make new friends, possibly club together and grit pavements during winter if the councils are overstretched for example?==============================Do you mean forced voluntary work by the DWP for no pay (charity scams, check the newspapers). My Dad and Brother are kidney surgeons and my Dad is on the board of the Royal College of Surgeons so I heard about kidney donations around the diner table my whole life. I've even handed a kidney over to Securicor. The Common Purpose blurb published on the internet was exposing the Brain Washing that Big Businesses and David Cameron are practicing on the sly and is available in the public domain Thu 20 Jan 2011 12:22:48 GMT+1 LondonHarris http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=93#comment1246 1227. At 10:18am on 20 Jan 2011, Exiledblade wrote:Dave once met a patient in a hospital.Dave told the patient that the NHS was marvellous, had really helped his family when they had problems.Dave said he wasn't going to do anything to harm the NHS.Dave lied!---------------------------------------------------------We are hearing alot these Days from Call - Me - DAVE, for under that slick image of a plastic frontman of ALL Style and NO Substance is he Dave the Government Head of the: Department for Accelerated Vanishing Employment, or DAVE for short???? Just wondering. Thu 20 Jan 2011 12:12:51 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=93#comment1245 1239 * until an acceptable solution is found Thu 20 Jan 2011 12:03:15 GMT+1 Steve http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=93#comment1244 1207. At 08:25am on 20 Jan 2011, paul wrote:1203. At 08:13am on 20 Jan 2011, Steve wrote:----------------------------------------------------------------Maybe some of us that have experience of the NHS expect a better service for OUR money?It's not like there's a choice to opt out (of paying).--------------------------------------------------------------Supposing you did get an opt out, what will you do when you become elderly and cannot afford the increased premiums sought by private health companies, or worse still find you have a pre-existing condition that you hadn't known about.They won't touch you with a barge pole. I suppose you wouldn't want to turn up at an NHS hospital expecting help would you ? Or perhaps you are one of the extremely wealthy that can afford anything ?The fact is our contributions cover everybody irrespective of age, ability to pay, what your medical problem is. Compared with the potential cost of serious disease or injury our contributions aren't that bad, I for one do not object to my contributions being paid in, and I hope and pray I never have need to cash in on them.But then again I'm not self obsessed or a worshipper of cash.------------------------------------------------------------------------The contributions may cover everyone 'in theory' but what do you do when the GP's turn you away because your symptoms 'don't warrant investigation on the NHS'? That then allows the tumour causing the symptoms to grow (for two years!) to 11 x 8 x 7 cm and spread to adjacent organs. Then you spend three weeks in hospital and the dullards still can't find the problem because they can't be bothered (or don't have the intellect) to look. So instead, you come out of hospital and use Google and the internet to determine the likely cause and then get a CT scan to confirm the DIY diagnosis. The NHS then puts you on a six month waiting list (in 2008) but you'll be dead way before that anyway because of the toxic affect of the tumour on your body.Thank God I had some basic health cover. And it nearly costs me £100 a month now but I make sacrifices to pay for it (including depleting my savings).And as I've said in previous posts - I've seen how the NHS can 'treat' some elderly patients. All I can say is - pray you never have to use the service. You may get excellent treatment. However, you may not - see Debbie's post no. 767.And I'm not a self obsessed worshipper of cash either. What I do want is universal excellent care. This is certainly not what the NHS offers and the reason it doesn't offer this has nothing to do with money either. Thu 20 Jan 2011 11:58:49 GMT+1 Trainee Anarchist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=93#comment1243 Mr Cameron and Mr Clegg are only mouthpieces for the world of 'Privatisation.'When they both leave office you wont find them helping out in the NHS but joining the board of business that measure their status by how much profit they make and how much money the chief executive can take home in salary and bonus.The 'Big Society' is what you and me are in whilst 'Winners' at the top run off with taxpayers money which saved their skins and allowed them to get back on the gravy trail of huge bonuses and complete immunity from the everyday plight of most of us.They will take the NHS and turn it into the only thing they understand....personal profit...which will be taken from you and me.You who think that this 'reform' is for the good of all need to have great belief in the promises of politicians that cannot even get their expenses right and who will disappear from the scene in a few years time to leave us all at the mercy of 'market forces'. Thu 20 Jan 2011 11:49:50 GMT+1 Gavin aLaugh http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=93#comment1242 1236. At 11:11am on 20 Jan 2011, Studio One wrote:Nice poem soundbite, but as you and others seem to suggest of the torys - you have no substance.The answer to your question of "why should i anser a thing?" is simply;To give yourself some credibility, since you have left 80% of my comments unanswered and seem to have no real answers to my posts - you just post empty comments with no real meaning.Let's show everyone an example shall we mr soundbite studio?1161. At 10:40pm on 19 Jan 2011, Studio One wrote:"The public will have \"social norms\" heavily emphasised to them in an attempt to increase healthy eating, voluntary work and tax gathering. Appeals will be made to \"egotism\" in a bid to foster individual support for the Big Society, while much greater use will be made of default options to select benevolent outcomes for passive citizens – exemplified by the organ donation scheme."+++++++++You are against the government promoting healthy eating, which will reduce the burden on the NHS (and therefore it could accommodate the cuts even better)you are against the government opting people in (which they can still opt-out if they so feel the need) to organ donation scheme, when te NHS is crying out for donors and people are needlessly dying,you are against the government emphasising the need to collect tax, even though you whinge about who will bail out this, that and the other (and would possibly alleviate the need for more cuts)you are against the government emphasising voluntary work, where people will meet other members of the community and possibly make new friends, possibly club together and grit pavements during winter if the councils are overstretched for example?you sir, need to take a step back and have a rethink Thu 20 Jan 2011 11:48:07 GMT+1 rememberdurruti http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=93#comment1241 This post has been Removed Thu 20 Jan 2011 11:46:53 GMT+1 ELENAKL http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=92#comment1240 1211. At 08:51am on 20 Jan 2011, BaconandEgg2wice wrote:1202. At 08:08am on 20 Jan 2011, Steve wrote:----------------------------------------------------------------Or, the vermin UK media spent months scaring the population about this year's flu jab containing the Swine Flu vaccine. Result - lower than normal take up. No surprise.In late December / early January, the same vermin media then makes public that people are dying of flu (which 250-300 do unfortunately each year in the UK - I'd like to see if it's even out of pattern with previous years). Result - those that didn't get the jab because they had been terrified about the Swine Flu element of the vaccine now rush round like zombies because they're more concerned about dying! No surprise.You can't plan for out of pattern demand.It's the vermin media that should be ashamed of themselves but they've moved on to something else by now.------------Whilst I agree the media are mostly vermin, you can't blame them for deciding not to carry out the advertising campaign that was carried out last year, and was carried out in Wales and Scotland this year. That was a gov't decision, and undoubtedly contributed significantly to the slow take up of the flew jabs in the first place. Maybe doctors should have contacted eligible patients direct, probably cheaper than a national advertising campaign and makes sure those who need are informed in good time. But then, what if everybody turned up in the first few days for their jab? presumably the same shortages would have been evident.---My husband is over 70, so eligible for the flu jabs, normal and swine, he was contacted and given an appointment to have them by our practice, it is up to the individual whether they actually attend, which he did, so obviously some GPs are looking after their patients in this way. Thu 20 Jan 2011 11:45:23 GMT+1 PHILTRICH http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=92#comment1239 How vile and utterly fake, Cameron and his fellow rich elite extreme right wingers set about smashing the NHS and then are embarrassed by the publicity surrounding one victim of their cold, callous cuts who cannot cope because his ideology of only providing for those who can afford it means this mother on the news today has had her support removed for her severely disabled child.He is only reacting because Mumsnet launched a campaign and rather than having the guts to say he doesn't care about the results of his cuts he does a vile PR stunt, writing to this woman pretending he's trustworthy, caring Dave. And the right wing press loves this.... let Cameron destroy our welfare system and then now and then pick out a victim of the cuts and caring Dave steps in and helps out. Problem solved. Forget all the millions who don't get a Mumnset campaign going and remain invisible.It stinks and he, especially, should be ashamed of the way he is knowingly wrecking people's lives whilst his rich banker friends continue to award themselves disgusting bonuses. Goldman Sachs profits fell by 38% and yet they still award the average employee £267,000 bonus. And they get away with it. And Cameron is telling us we are all in it together while his rich friends behave like this. And he has the nerve to slag off Chief Execs at County Councils who manage £100's millions for getting paid more than his bogus £150K salary ! His salary, which is meaningless given that he already has a reported £30 million which he scrounged off his parents. Yes, let's have someone in charge of £100 millions of our council tax paid £40,000 a year, that'll insure we get the best talent for managing it properly!!! How stupid,arrogant and short sighted. So all the good people get paid £150,000+ in the private sector for managing this kind of budget and let's get rubbish ones on £40K to manage public sector funds. Mindless beyond belief. Because these people will work as a form of charity because it's the public sector. It's naive beyond words.And all this right wing nonsense about how you must pay insane bonuses or bankers will go elsewhere. Firstly, that's hardly going to stop another potential global financial meltdown and secondly , how come they never say that wrecking public services is likely to make NHS workers go to work overseas in the US, Australia, New Zealand etc,? or that teachers will move abroad or firemen etc.? Reason = Because teachers and firemen don't go to their elite private schools and are not part of their rich elite club. That's why they never mention the danger of these people leaving our shores. Thu 20 Jan 2011 11:44:31 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=92#comment1238 It seems like the Tories proposals are flawed, rushed and ill conceived, as well as being very unpopular with the General Public [G.P.]. Like any system design on paper, incomplete business analysis and bad design can be thrown away or reworked until an unacceptable solution is found. Thu 20 Jan 2011 11:38:46 GMT+1 moreram http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=92#comment1237 Never mind what we think here is what the President of the Royal Collage of Surgons think, published in todays Guardian. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jan/20/colossal-waste-nhs-commissioning-costs?INTCMP=SRCH Thu 20 Jan 2011 11:36:03 GMT+1 Chrisie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=92#comment1236 The apparent dishonest manner in which the Conservatives have introduced NHS CUTS should be no surprise to anyone who remembers Margaret Thatcher. She too spoke of being the NHS's friend and then set about closing as many hospitals as she could in the time available leading many Doctors and other health professionals to seek positions abroad. I remember people having long waits for essential surgery for cancer and other serious conditions. It took the Labour Party many years to repair this damage, to train doctors and nurses and to build new hospitals. Now David Cameron and Nick Clegg want to turn the clock back and to give health care ONLY to those who can afford it. How many Private Hospitals will take long term terminal cases FREE? or.. Train Doctors and Nurses? Thu 20 Jan 2011 11:28:14 GMT+1 U14752247 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=92#comment1235 @ Gavin's getting tedious why should I answer a thing, you'll never be my friend. Ding! Real bloggers state their own views and won't toe a party line like you do.Citizens exercising freedom of speech, Each one teach one that's how we preachNever try to censor, as anyone can teachThey are not always right but will keep it real, and constructive criticism will not be repealed. Thu 20 Jan 2011 11:11:37 GMT+1 David Blake http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/are_proposed_changes_to_the_nh.html?page=92#comment1234 784. At 07:34am on 19 Jan 2011, Masons Arms wrote:No other European country seems to have anything like the vast, monolithic NHS. No other country comparable to the UK seems to have such a terrible health service.Nowhere else in Europe are people so culturally blinkered that they think only in terms of comparisons between the UK and the US. And even then, the US system isn't as bad as it's made out to be. It's bad in many ways, and it's got its problems, for sure. But as Justin Webb reported, it's got some pretty big advantages, too.The NHS, par contre, is pretty vile. I know too many people who are suffering from serious problems because NHS incompetents failed to spot or treat serious conditions in time. I know how incompetent and irresponsible these people can be.------------------------------------------------I think you make a very good point. As you say nowhere else in Europe are people so culturally blinkered that they think only in terms of comparisons between the UK and the US. Why not take a look at the health systems of our European neighbours. Thu 20 Jan 2011 11:09:59 GMT+1