Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html en-gb 30 Thu 30 Jul 2015 19:36:19 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html mildenhalljohn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=99#comment267 LESS management, MORE cops on the streets, its an obvious move Fri 14 Jan 2011 18:24:12 GMT+1 Terry-Yaki http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=99#comment266 "32. At 3:09pm on 12 Jan 2011, anotherfakename wrote:Frankly given the behaviour of the police and the bizarre nature of the court system I'd scrap the whole lot - it would improve society, remove a large amount of thuggish and brutal behaviour, improve safety and save us a stack of money in the process.(Mr while middle classed professional middle aged male)."Well, Mr while (sic: white?) middle classed (sic: middle-class?) professional middle aged (sic: middle-aged?) male (at least you got that right), on what planet do you think you or your family would survive the week if there was no police force? I've no doubt you're going to tell me you're a seven-foot tall ex-para who never called 999 etc, but you COULD NOT take on multiple assailants at once, or fend off a gang of burglars, or protect your family every minute of the day. If there was no police, there would be a growth in private security for the rich, and the poor would just live in increased risk, at the mercy of marauders, as occurs during time of civil war (e.g. in Somalia) when there is no rule of law. Fri 14 Jan 2011 18:07:37 GMT+1 Terry-Yaki http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=98#comment265 "20. At 2:30pm on 12 Jan 2011, Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote:3. At 1:37pm on 12 Jan 2011, John Mc wrote:1. At 1:18pm on 12 Jan 2011, Khuli wrote:Presumably the big advantages would be things like consistency of training, better information-sharing and economies of scale.==============================================================agreed with an emphasis on visibility on the streets, and not just in cars.Why are some people still obsessed with the mythical "bobby on the beat" syndrome? I see no fewer police on the streets where I live today than I did back in the 60s and 70s."Exactly. More importantly, why do some people "think" (euphemism for "read in the Daily Mail") that this is an adequate gauge of how well the police force are doing their job? I don't see paramedics or firefighters walking the beat either, does that mean they're not responding to emergencies? The police are an emergency service, and it's frankly insulting that people who wouldn't think to tell a paramedic to get out of his ambulance and do his job on foot would say that to a police officer. We currently "enjoy" the highest rate of violent crime in Europe, which I believe is caused by two problems: (1) an attitude among the political elite that policing is a necessary evil, and something to be apologised for at every opportunity through an obsession with "consent", being "approachable" and "connecting with the community". Maybe it's a case of the grass being greener, but I do not see this ridiculous attitude among the police in other countries, who are often proud of being feared by the scumbag element.(2) an unwillingness to adopt best practice from other countries, and to substitute jingoistic tub-thumping for reasoned argument when faced with options ("We can't have routinely armed police officers/ID cards/water cannons, it's not traditionally British" etc). Until these problems are resolved, through genuine and dynamic political leadership instead of craven vote-chasing, ordinary people will suffer disproportionately while the chattering classes will continue to spout high-brow liberal nonsense, safe in their suburbs. Fri 14 Jan 2011 17:50:59 GMT+1 David Stelmach http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=98#comment264 If the UK Police Forces are amalgamated into a single force, they could be a larger force that the Army. It would save money but care would be needed to ensure that the directorate of such a force do not wield their power corruptly. Does a single police officer currently hold the skills necessary for such a post? Fri 14 Jan 2011 17:11:34 GMT+1 chiptheduck http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=98#comment263 Efficiency is invesely proportional to size. Fri 14 Jan 2011 16:55:30 GMT+1 LaAntena http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=97#comment262 Yeah one single UK police farce with one single Indian based customer contact centre. The only thing which will not change is the Indian customer satisfaction surveyor who calls me two weeks after I contacted my local farce at the moment. Fri 14 Jan 2011 16:27:52 GMT+1 Lucy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=97#comment261 18. At 2:24pm on 12 Jan 2011, ziggyboy wrote:Yes there should be a single police force. Crime is crime and maybe if there were less chiefs and a lot more indians it would help in the reduction of crime.Also the law is the law and doesn't or shouldn't vary from forforce to force. The only thing standing in the way of this change is the people who will see it as their right to be promoted to Chief Constable etc.The same should be done with Education, the NHS and all public service bodies which are split into bits. If all these bodies were singing off the same hymn sheet, service to the public would I'm sure improve and at the end of the day cost less.--------------------------------Several NHS trusts where I live were amalgamated a few years ago only for the single unit to waste a considerable amount of money changing administrative systems at the whim of each new director comes in. Doesn't seem like it has saved much money, in fact it seems like more money has been spent merging all the seperate systems and then changing them than on what the Trust(s) are supposed to be providing, i.e. medical care. Fri 14 Jan 2011 15:53:33 GMT+1 James T Haddock http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=97#comment260 While it has attractions to going central the cost of implementing these ideas often spends the money they aim to save. While local areas at least have local connections to their staff and public.All in all people can always make reports on where improvements and savings can be made. More often than not its by getting rid of these people and letting the police get on with their jobs. Fri 14 Jan 2011 15:18:16 GMT+1 OrdericVitalis http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=96#comment259 It might make sense in Scotland because the forces there are tiny compared to the rest of the country. I would also not be averse to further consolidation in England to get each force up to an optimum size which would generate efficiencies in support services and training. A National Police Force definitely not, this would place too much power in the hands of a few people and would militate against local accountabilty for policing. Fri 14 Jan 2011 15:03:51 GMT+1 Genegenie66 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=96#comment258 Logically it does make sense to have a single police force in terms of money it would save. But I feel by merging all Scottish Forces, the financial benefit will loose out in practical terms. I would think the public would prefer to have a local force dealing with local issues. For example when Strathclyde Police was formed in 1975, it was a result of numerous constabularies coming together which meant smaller towns and villages lost their local police officer and many police stations closed by centralising them. This would only become worse by merging them and rural areas, especially in the Highlands or the Borders would loose out. The foundations of Scottish policing is policing by consent and as synical as the public are, this would be damaged as they would believe the police are being controlled even more by politicians. Specialist functions already cover the whole of Scotland under one body - Scottish Police Services Authority which are seen as the 9th force where they supply specialist functions such as forensics, serious crime through SCDEA and police training at Tulliallan. ACPOS guidelines already state how inhouse training must be carried out so it is consistent throughout the country. Scottish forces do speak to each other and pass on information to each other. The investigation in to the Ian Huntly case concluded that English forces do not talk to each other and should look at the example Scottish police forces have whereby they have very clear communication with each other.One major area of accountability in Scotland is the investigations of any wrong doing by a police officer which is investigated by a neighbouring force to ensure impartiallity. This would be impossible through one force as English forces would not beable to investigate Scottish matters as the law and procedures vary so much.France, China, New Zealand all have a national force but their approach to policing is very different to Scotland's. Their police in effect put the government's interest over the individual. Scottish police must maintain political independence or it will not be affective. Elected commissionaires are completely wrong as all it would do is bring in people with single policies that are important to them and they would not be impartial. Accountability already exists with the "tripartite system" Scottish police have where members of the police board are elected councillors.In my opinion, a single police force would be disastrous. Yes money would be saved but the police service would be less effective by being centralised and not caring of the concerns of the individual person. Fri 14 Jan 2011 14:41:36 GMT+1 david http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=95#comment257 Not sure about a single police force - but REGIONAL would seem to make sense. The danger then is that you'd need another layer of bureaucracy to co-ordinate the various areas - so the intention to reduce overlapping functions could get lost.I'va always been a bit puzzled as to how policing works in America - where you seem to have a 'city' police force (their 'cities' often being not much more than a village); then county police; then you've got the Sheriff; State Troopers; then the Highway Patrol - and then the Feds whom everyone seems to hate (in the movies anyway)... Fri 14 Jan 2011 13:15:46 GMT+1 sid_ts63 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=95#comment256 #244 firemensaction, morning. has the scottish parliment not been told there is no money left you ask . the answer is the scottish parliment is well aware their pocket money has been cut by billions which is why they are looking to REDUCE the quango's not increase them reducing the forces from 8 to 3 or indeed 1,which will protect front line policing."cuts for us but not for them" this statment tells me all I need to know? An outrageous statment but would you like to clarify who is not getting CUT'S in your opinion?you should really be careful where you get your information from and who you listen to!Sid Fri 14 Jan 2011 13:07:46 GMT+1 Paul http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=95#comment255 28. At 5:14pm on 13 Jan 2011, Electric Hermit wrote:222. Paul"The reason that so many motorists "break the law" is that the law has almost lost all credibility in this area. A law has to be seen to be reasonable for it to be followed."Another one happy to illustrate just why it is necessary for the police to devote such a large proportion of their resources to motorist. It is, quite simply because the attitude you evince here - the belief that you don't have to obey laws if it might be slightly inconvenient to do so - is so common among motorists."It's not that it's "inconvenient", it's that it is (or at least has the very strong appearance of being) unreasonable.If someone creates a law saying everyone has to wear a pink/green checked tie, would you do so? Or would you argue that it's unreasonable, and thus 'rebel' against the law?Traffic laws are often implemented reasonably, but often they aren't. Government did not say the speed limit on such and such a road had to be 40mph instead of 60mph. The law makers set a reasonable law that speed limits are to be obeyed. However, they are often implemented poorly because the people who set specific speed limits are not accountable. Councillors, senior police officers and other people with local influence will often force speed limits to be set lower than is actually reasonable. Fri 14 Jan 2011 13:01:19 GMT+1 paul http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=94#comment254 Does this mean there will be a centralised training facility to teach them how to sit for hours on end in Police cars watching out for somebody who may exceed the speed limit. Will there be a Doughnut eating academy !I doubt the public will notice any difference, certainly the criminals won't. In five years the only police I have seen locally actually came to ask for directions ! ! Fri 14 Jan 2011 12:24:35 GMT+1 TruthBot http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=94#comment253 I believe that the government wants to unite the police forces under the leadership of a single henchman appointed by them to do their bidding. This is a familiar pattern and this is what the government has done to schools, colleges, universities, social services and, indeed, to Parliament itself - commandeer them for immoral political purposes. That is how these career politicians operate. Fri 14 Jan 2011 11:39:48 GMT+1 monkeypuzzletree http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=94#comment252 The people who matter in the police are the boys and girls in blue who have contact with you. Like in many organizations there is deadwood at the upper echelons who watch them that actually do the job, and then take the credit for ant drop in the crime figures.If a single Force manages to reduce the managers and releases more resources to where they are needed then great. But human nature being what is, self interest will normally prevail and nothing much will change. The TV serial 'A Touch of Frost' gave a not unrealistic picture of the mentality at the higher ranks in the job. Its all about politics and careers and to H... with the rank and file and the general public, unless of course its someone important or a high profile case. Fri 14 Jan 2011 11:27:22 GMT+1 Amanda Cerasale http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=93#comment251 Can I tell you all something about 10 years ago there was an area not very far from where I live now and the police even at that time called it a no area because there was binge drinking drug taking cars running all hours of the night ASBOS etc, but now this area has really cleaned up its act, Fri 14 Jan 2011 11:21:41 GMT+1 kevin http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=93#comment250 The answer is to keep the police forces the way they are but to set up a national "FBI" style force that will be asked to intervene when smaller police forces are struggling with a particular crime.They could be used to deal with corruption and policing the police.What ever happens,beware of the evil and corrupt and unethical psychiatry of the british psychiatrist and psychiatric nurse.These are the torturers of gitmo.The scum,the slime and should be sacked. Fri 14 Jan 2011 10:56:12 GMT+1 MrWonderfulReality http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=92#comment249 Look, there been NOTHING stopping police forces from utilising their buying power together to attain better deals, they have not done it, not in a comprehensive way anyway.Theres been nothing stopping police forces from previously sharing administration and cutting duplication and maximising efforts to provide BEST service and INCREASED service via good basic and decent practice, they have not done it.Police forces are public bodies.It should be the ENDEMIC responsibility of ANY/ALL public services to CONSTANTLY seek to improve costs savings while maintaining and IMPROVING services, just as ANY business does.If such services CANNOT and WILL NOT COMPETANTLY undertake such basic fundamental practices of care of duty to those they serve while not under so much preasure of such compliance of attaining such, then how on EARTH can it be expected that they will move forward with competance when under such forced drastic and severe preasure.The general WASTE & ineptitude & incompetance going forward is factually going to get MUCH worse while in HURRIED RETREAT.Please show me evidence of ANY major retreat of ANY circumstance which has NOT resulted in MANY casualtys/victims, of one sort or another. All these systems & services that are being cut , have taken years, decades to fine tune and iron out discrepancys & failures, such fundamental changes as are being forced upon them now can and factually will result in a HUGE increase in failures.By concentrating just purely upon the cuts, the MUCH MUCH bigger picture is being MISSED. Fri 14 Jan 2011 10:38:35 GMT+1 Karl Flavell http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=92#comment248 I did 8 yrs as a bobby in an English Force. The disparity between eqpt etc was mind boggling when I went into foreign force areas. No comms, we didn't have body armour but most did (having said that I never wore mine as it was uncomfortable), some didn't use CS at the time so I'd have to contact my control room before I left my force area to let them know I was going into Notts so they knew there was a bobby carrying what they regarded as an atomic device.It would make more sense if we had a national police force and each force area used on a regimental system. Equipment, uniform, vehicles etc purchased by a central body a la the armed forces. Bulk buys = huge discounts. Huge discounts means more money for policing. When I was in the job I saw thousands of pounds being wasted on crap like recarpetting the nick early in the year to use up cash so the force could ask for more money in the next financial year as they'd spent it all and gone over budget. Oh this was despite the fact we couldn't have paid overtime as there was no money in the pot so we'd have to have it on our time off card, which we never got to use as we were always on minimum cover so we'd lose the time we'd worked past our shift. It got to the stage I just couldn't be bothered to fill in my OT forms if I wasn't going to get any pay. I struggled to get annual leave let alone time off accrued.Scrap local force budgets and stick it all under one huge umbrella. Police budgets should cover equipment, vehicles, wages and thats it. It doesn't actually cost any money to go out and nick someone. The custody suites open anyway. You may have to give the prisoner a pot noodle but thats it really. A cell is free accomodation. I really don't see what the fuss is about. The sooner the budget is wrestled from Chief Constables and spendy civillian accuntants the better! We might actually get policing that we deserve! Fri 14 Jan 2011 09:43:49 GMT+1 Chris http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=92#comment247 A consolidated approach to Policing would be a massive leap forward, with far greater standardisation in procedures, administration, training, IT systems, information sharing/gathering etc etc. The list of benefits of this proposal is endless. Streamlining the various forces into one would be a logistic nightmare, but well worth the trouble.The main area of concern for the public would be visibility of Officers on the streets. A streamlined and consolidated Police Force would hopefully allow that. We need to win back our neighborhoods from drunks and ASBO-collecting thugs and yobs. This would be a good start. Fri 14 Jan 2011 09:18:51 GMT+1 ProbMan http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=91#comment246 123. At 11:12pm on 12 Jan 2011, Chazz Trinder wrote:Well something needs to be done about the police. A recent TV documentary about motorway police showed how one constabulary had purchased HGV vehicles and trained policeman to be HGV drivers. The idea was to patrol the motorways in unmarked “police lorries” so they could see into lorry drivers’ cabs – which of course they can’t do from their normal patrol cars. -------------I watched the same documentary, the policeman driving the HGV was already trained & had a HGV license before joining the force.Without the unmarked lorry, they probably wouldn't have stopped the HGV driver on the phone that was also twice the legal limit in the afternoon rush hour in a 44tonne lorry. Fri 14 Jan 2011 08:41:46 GMT+1 Mr Cholmondley-Warner http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=91#comment245 224. At 4:10pm on 13 Jan 2011, Masons Arms wrote://207. At 1:40pm on 13 Jan 2011, forclarification wrote:108. At 7:57pm on 12 Jan 2011, Reclaim_the_country wrote:We would be better off without the po lice.Birmingham 6 Guildford 4.===========================================Who did Birmingham play in the next round?//LOLOLOLOLOL---------------------------------------------------------------------The thought of 26 dead and 247 injured always cracks me up as well.Keep 'em coming, funny man.You must have some crackers about 9/11, 7/7 and Madrid. Fri 14 Jan 2011 07:59:43 GMT+1 Kadazan http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=91#comment244 "Too many chiefs and not enough Indians" has been the byword for decades. When was the last time you saw a Bobby walking the streets for example? I've seen one or two on TV but that was fictional! What they should be doing is asking the public what WE want, not deciding amongst themselves what we will get, that's putting the cart before the horse. Sell off all police vehicles, issue walking boots and we'll have fitter, healthier Bobbys on the beat local to OUR needs. We want pro-action not reaction! The essence of Bobbys on the beat is that criminals don't know when they will turn up whereas what we get today is total ignorance of what is going on until a member of the public call them....that's what I mean by reaction and it's not good enough. Look up the word 'police or policing' in a good dictionary, that says it all! Fri 14 Jan 2011 07:22:24 GMT+1 firemensaction http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=90#comment243 As someone who was at the scene of a road accident (In Yorkshire, England) and through the "regionalisation" frenzy then in place had my request for emergency services reponded to with "Where IS that sir?", (as the Control centre was miles away in Newcastle), AND who only managed to get medical aid because the LOCAL police station DID answer promptly, my point is that the biggest mistake we have seen was in 1974, when towns lost the (local) police, fire ambulance etc.Computers no replacement for coppers!!Polticians must be aware of this, but, as usual they will look the other way when crime occurs. (Unless it is London of Course!!)Have Scottish Parliament not been told...THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT!!??Now is not a time to set up MORE quangoes, Call centres and remote CCTV monitoring of crime rather than Local control of it!! Cuts for US but not for THEM eh?? Fri 14 Jan 2011 01:35:02 GMT+1 Alandoc374 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=90#comment242 As a Police officer I have to say there is something to be said about having one force, if it is to save money. However, suggesting there would be any substantial enough saving on the 25% spent by forces on back room operations, I doubt they would outweigh the costs implementing the changes. In the last year to 18 months there has already been a clear out of personnel from back rooms, leaving almost skeleton staff to cover the work. Merging to one force will not reduce crime, not reduce the number of road accidents, there will still be work to do, so as far as I am concerned the same number of staff will still be required to do the job. As I say, we are cut to the bone already in the back rooms.Perhaps we should look at sharing roles. We should club together and increase buying power for vehicles, uniforms, equipment, share services in garage workshops, training centres etc.There can be savings made still, but one force will not realistically cut running costs. Thu 13 Jan 2011 22:39:16 GMT+1 Electric Hermit http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=89#comment241 241. North Briton"...I just wonder if a country wide police was in operation just what level of local knowledge an officer could have and with a trimmed force what response times might be. "Nobody is talking about a police service with is "national" at the operational level. Policing would still be local. Only administrative functions and common services would be centralised to whatever extent might be deemed appropriate.Neither is anyone talking about a "trimmed" force. On the contrary, the whole point of the exercise is to free up resources in order to maintain front line services in the face of funding cuts necessitated by the previous UK government's appalling mishandling of the economy and the ideologically driven axe being wielded by the Tories. Thu 13 Jan 2011 22:14:50 GMT+1 North Briton http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=89#comment240 The county I live has a policy of flexible working which means calls will be answered by the nearest available officer. Quite logical. The problem arises as happened a few months ago when there was a road accident nearby. From phoning it took nearly 40 minutes for an officer to find us. She had been sent from about 15 miles away and was unfamiliar with the area and had difficulty finding the location. She was competant and efficient in action but I just wonder if a country wide police was in operation just what level of local knowledge an officer could have and with a trimmed force what response times might be. Thu 13 Jan 2011 21:29:41 GMT+1 C Beaven http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=89#comment239 A single police force in England, never going to happen. Even our local police force (Hertfordshire Constabulary) is digging its heels in by merging with Bedfordshire. Two relatively small areas in the country at large, just because a few coppers from Herts do not want to venture into Luton.It's a good idea in principle what has happened in Scotland but will have to wait and see as to whether it delivers a more economical approach, reduction in crime and an increased detection rate. Thu 13 Jan 2011 21:22:33 GMT+1 Bibi http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=88#comment238 The infrastructure of the police force is unimportant. What matters is the integrity, intelligence and humanity of its offices and its leadership. Thu 13 Jan 2011 20:36:56 GMT+1 Electric Hermit http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=88#comment237 237. Steve Linton"So maybe there should be one organisation (HR, finance, telecoms, forensics, etc.) but three or four forces with separate budgets, chief constables and total operational indepdenence: maybe a Southern force covering Borders, Argyll, etc,. Strathclyde, Eastern (Edinburgh to Aberdeen) and Highlands and Islands."I prefer the suggestion from Stephen Allen, the deputy chief constable of Lothian and Borders Police. He envisages a single force with a divisional structure based on the 32 local authorities. This would seem to offer the opportunity for savings while maintaining, and possibly even improving, local accountability and operational effectiveness. There is considerable appeal in the idea of 32 divisional commanders free to focus on the policing needs of the communities they serve while "head office" takes care of the administration and provides common services.Reading between the lines, this is the option favoured by MacAskill too. But, for some reason, the British Labour Party and their Tory allies at Holyrood don't seem to want this idea to even be considered or put on the table for consultation. We have to wonder just what their agenda is. Apart, of course, from their customary petty politicking and obstructionist attitude to the Scottish government. Thu 13 Jan 2011 19:15:05 GMT+1 Steve Linton http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=88#comment236 No one can really argue with saving money, or reducing back office duplication or whatever. Two caveats though:1. There needs to be enough local flexibility to ensure that policies are appropriate to local conditions -- a burglary in rural Dumfriesshire is quite a different beast to one in a poor area of Glasgow -- different types of criminals, of stolen goods, likely different motivations, different forensic options, etc.2. There needs to be enough scope for doing things differently to allow the best ideas to be discovered by experiment and then rolled out nationally.So maybe there should be one organisation (HR, finance, telecoms, forensics, etc.) but three or four forces with separate budgets, chief constables and total operational indepdenence: maybe a Southern force covering Borders, Argyll, etc,. Strathclyde, Eastern (Edinburgh to Aberdeen) and Highlands and Islands. Thu 13 Jan 2011 18:48:45 GMT+1 I_amStGeorge http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=87#comment235 Taken on face value, logically it makes sense. We are only a small island and it makes hypocrisy out of the fact that post code laws as post code NHS operations exist. but then you get the Tory gerry mandering with the hidden agendas.How long before we get an elected chief constable. Will the police be used for political ends as in the Thatcher wars with the Wapping newspapers or the miners. How long before our "Neutral" police force becomes the for runner of sending the troops in.Yes, Logically and financially it sounds a good idea but politically it stinks like a 5 day old piece of fish Thu 13 Jan 2011 18:34:40 GMT+1 Stercus Vulgaris http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=87#comment234 How about 2 by putting traffic under the Transport police and letting the counties concentrate on crime under 1 chief constable mega savings to spend on foriegn aid Thu 13 Jan 2011 18:16:01 GMT+1 topsail http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=86#comment233 We have never had policing by cental government in the UK - the military style forces seen in many countries. When police were first introduced, by Robert Peel, it was touch and go whether the public would accept the idea. On the one hand, it is to safeguard us against criminals but on the other, we must accept a degree of snooping. The deal was that that police would be under local control, enabling close accountability. Although larger forces might be cheaper and more efficient, we are already becoming a society living under a high degree of surveillance and in which the enforcement measures against minor offences are very automated and unacceptably oppressive. I recently returned from rural Argentina, where life is more realxed and free than in the UK. I don't personally care if the kid next door has a defective exhaust pipe or if he doesn't have a TV licence, I don't want to be snooped over issued like that. Thu 13 Jan 2011 18:02:19 GMT+1 Electric Hermit http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=86#comment232 232. topumpire1"The police forces within the UK..."I guess the time has come to give up trying to point out what this HYS topic is actually about. Nobody can say we didn't try. Thu 13 Jan 2011 18:00:31 GMT+1 topumpire1 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=86#comment231 The police forces within the UK should be more linked, so that much of the administration, background work is not repeated (& paid for several times) they should also be uniformly run to the BEST practice of each force, the best training process, becomes THE training process, the best investigation/ forensic practices will become THE forensic/ investigation practices, etc. however, the police "on the ground" need local management structures for everyday use (& call centres - many people calling may only know street name & number/ name of incident, so an operator must know location, or could send to the WRONG address in another twon!). A National force will be able to muscle prices down for large orders for everything, including vehicles (& use ONE manufacturer, not multiple types). This should NOT be limited to the police, but also the fire service AND others, councils can combine some services, the Fireservice join to push for a bulk order of fire trucks, BUT must run emergancy centres more locally, so that the operators KNOW their patch, as many calling "999" will not know ALL the details of location (especially if only passing a fire may only know street name, not post code) Thu 13 Jan 2011 17:44:07 GMT+1 lochnagar http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=85#comment230 I agree with the single police force it will remove three very expensive levels of Non front line senior officers, back room managers and administration staff. It will not affect operational front line policing. Great idea. Thu 13 Jan 2011 17:30:03 GMT+1 Wicked_Witch_of_the_West_Coast http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=85#comment229 [122. At 11:08pm on 12 Jan 2011, Tio Terry wrote:Why is it stupid to suggest a national British Police Force? We have a National Army, Navy and Airforce, why should the Police be different? Separate legal, judicial and prison systems? Are you saying it is impossible to create a single system? If you are I would suggest you are short sighted. Opposition in Scotland? Five million people in 60 million, a very big minority, not a chance.A single UK force is what the Untied Kingdom PLC needs.]There's a separate legal system in Scotland - it would be extremely difficult to set up one police force upholding 2 different legal systems. Thu 13 Jan 2011 17:22:13 GMT+1 Electric Hermit http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=85#comment228 223. John Charlton"Electric Hermit rose to the bait but I am not ignorant of the separate legal position of Scotland."But you are evidently completely ignorant of the constitutional and political implications of your hare-brained notion. Think it through! What possibility is there that the Scottish police service(s) would consent to being subsumed in a "British" police force? None! What possibility is there that the Scottish Parliament would agree to its powers over policing being removed to Westminster? Absolutely none!What possibility is there that the people of Scotland - who are sovereign - would mandate such a measure? The very idea is ludicrous!Indulge in your fantasies all you wish. But please don't confuse these fantasies with rational discussion of the actual issues. Thu 13 Jan 2011 17:21:26 GMT+1 Electric Hermit http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=84#comment227 222. Paul"The reason that so many motorists "break the law" is that the law has almost lost all credibility in this area. A law has to be seen to be reasonable for it to be followed."Another one happy to illustrate just why it is necessary for the police to devote such a large proportion of their resources to motorist. It is, quite simply because the attitude you evince here - the belief that you don't have to obey laws if it might be slightly inconvenient to do so - is so common among motorists. An attitude which leads to motorists committing a massively disproportionate number of offences.If you don't want to be bothered by the police, do what any decent citizen would do - abide by the law! Thu 13 Jan 2011 17:14:02 GMT+1 Jaydee http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=84#comment226 What an excellent idea ! Well done Scotland for coming up with this innovative idea.I hope the idea succeeds. I appreciate there are the upsides and the downsides of having one police force but overall and economically this is an excellent idea.It would be sensible for England and Wales to look into this idea as well. Perhaps all we really need is a single force and the Met.While on the subject of amalgamations, what about getting rid of half the MPs ? Thu 13 Jan 2011 16:30:01 GMT+1 Robert Sinclair Shand http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=83#comment225 Whenever murders go unsolved when it is obvious who the culprits were we do not need a police-force collaboration team we need intelligent dedicated policing and judges with more backbone than the hapless morons we now have in the judicary. Britain stinks like a sewer morally and all because of whining pathetic Human-Rights unintelligent cretins being allowed too much gaff in how we treat bloody-minded criminals. Thu 13 Jan 2011 16:19:11 GMT+1 Masons Arms http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=83#comment224 //220. At 3:46pm on 13 Jan 2011, bud wrote:time for a complete make over in these enlightened times,a new shiney peak cap,highly polished jackboots and a brightly illustrated tory swastika.along with new arrest laws as regards to public unrest it will become the golden age of policing.plod cannot wait to wade in to strikers, new age travelers, greenpeace,(a long time favourite)OOOOh! bring it on,i'm polishing my truncheon as i write.....//Less of the victim stuff, please. The left loves to see itself as victims, but they are in fact the real human rights abusers. Labour was way worse on human rights than the tories were. Remember, under Labour, we had a situation where daring to take issue with ethnic minorities or immigration could land you in serious trouble - http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/225346_schoolgirl_questioned_over_racist_remarkhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7754099.stmMore to the point, the serious political violence in the UK and elsewhere in Europe tends to come from the left and muslims (you could ask Pim Fortuyn about that, but he's not able to respond...dangerous speaking out against immigration, you see) in the form of bombs and political killings.So really, don't try the victim culture thing. It's a bit reminiscent of christians and their martyrs, the nazis and Horst Wessel. Thu 13 Jan 2011 16:17:47 GMT+1 Masons Arms http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=83#comment223 //207. At 1:40pm on 13 Jan 2011, forclarification wrote:108. At 7:57pm on 12 Jan 2011, Reclaim_the_country wrote:We would be better off without the po lice.Birmingham 6 Guildford 4.===========================================Who did Birmingham play in the next round?//LOLOLOLOLOL Thu 13 Jan 2011 16:10:16 GMT+1 John Charlton http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=82#comment222 120. At 11:03pm on 12 Jan 2011, Electric Hermit wrote:117. John Charlton"If you need a professional detective force nationally for seriouis crimes and terrorism, then so be it, but normal policing should be locally controlled. In those circumstances it would be sensible for any national force to cover the whole of the UK rather than pretend Scotland is a separate country (sorry to offend all the SNP supporters)."It is not SNP supporters you offend but the intelligence of all who read this - with a couple of similarly silly exceptions. Scotland is a separate country. We not only have a separate health service and education system but also a separate legal system, judicial system and prison service. Oh! And a separate government. It is the Justice Secretary of the Scottish government who has ultimate responsibility for policing in Scotland - not your Home Secretary. And it is the Scottish government which will decide this matter - not the UK government.I find it remarkable how ignorant some Englanders can be of the world outside their village.---------------------------------------------------------------Electric Hermit rose to the bait but I am not ignorant of the separate legal position of Scotland. If you believe that criminals do not cross the border between Scotland and England then so be it. I don't. Indeed, there is no reason why police constables cannot be sworn in both England and Scotland so that they can operate both sides of the border. I know that the British Transport Police do this and I suspect those constabularies operating near the border also follow this practice. Thu 13 Jan 2011 16:01:37 GMT+1 Paul http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=82#comment221 204. At 1:33pm on 13 Jan 2011, Electric Hermit wrote:If the police devote so much attention to motorists it is for a reason. The reason being that so many motorists break the law with such frequency. If only motorists would demonstrate that they could be trusted to behave responsibly and obey the law then think of the resources that would be freed-up for fighting crime."The reason that so many motorists "break the law" is that the law has almost lost all credibility in this area. A law has to be seen to be reasonable for it to be followed. When people see straight, open, rural roads with low accident rates with 40 mph limits and lots of speed cameras instead of the sensible 60 mph limit, then they see a cynical money making exercise rather than a sensible law. When they see people being stopped by the police for blowing their nose while stopped at traffic lights, they see stupid laws. The problem is that the unreasonable implementations of the law then mean that people can no longer tell when it is being implemented reasonably.Most prosecuted 'traffic offences' are not dangerous. Most dangerous driving is not prosecuted. This does not give credibility to the traffic police. It's like a policeman giving someone a ticket for dropping an apple core on the pavement, while someone is being mugged 10 yards away. Thu 13 Jan 2011 15:59:58 GMT+1 Wicked_Witch_of_the_West_Coast http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=82#comment220 [19. At 2:26pm on 12 Jan 2011, steve wrote:It is worth bearing in mind that even if all the Constabluaries in Scotland were mereged the resulting force would be approximately half the size and covering less than half the population currently covered by the London Metroplitan Police]But over a larger territory, and with a different population spread, which is why some people have their doubts about this scheme. Thu 13 Jan 2011 15:50:43 GMT+1 perkinwellbeck http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=81#comment219 time for a complete make over in these enlightened times,a new shiney peak cap,highly polished jackboots and a brightly illustrated tory swastika.along with new arrest laws as regards to public unrest it will become the golden age of policing.plod cannot wait to wade in to strikers, new age travelers, greenpeace,(a long time favourite)OOOOh! bring it on,i'm polishing my truncheon as i write..... Thu 13 Jan 2011 15:46:35 GMT+1 MrWonderfulReality http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=81#comment218 Should there be a single police force? It might be ok for dealing with single unmarried mothers & feral children, but what of non single married couples with feral children.Where will they recruuit them, a singles bar!!! Thu 13 Jan 2011 15:42:59 GMT+1 D G Cullum http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=80#comment217 What only one like we have now that is there for the rich as there is no other force they do belong to the Queen I know we pay for them but look at the fuss over Prince Charles and wife who told them to go that way???? he did not stop going to his night out so he was not hurt but this is being used now to close down any one who wants to protest so we will be protest more about this. We do not want the police we have who are more paramilitary than the SAS I wonder who is training them Mossed maybe just a thought sorry we are not allowed them either. There is only one police force the Queens and her Governments. Thu 13 Jan 2011 15:32:06 GMT+1 Tio Terry http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=80#comment216 216. At 2:50pm on 13 Jan 2011, Electric Hermit wrote:213. Tio Terry"Spain has a National Police Force, supplemented by Guardia Civil in urban areas. Are you suggesting this country would not be able to have a comparable system?Maybe you are not thinking outside the box?Spain can manage this with very different local governments, for example, Catalonia. This is similar in lots of ways to Scotland."We are not talking about Spain. Nor are we talking about the UK. The proposals under discussion concern reorganisation of the police service(s) in Scotland. There are no proposals to create a UK-wide police service. The reason there are no such proposals being that such a thing is as close to being a political - if not practical - impossibility as makes no difference.-----------------------------------------------------------I don't think there's any reason why the question cannot be expanded to include the rest of the country, after all, we are all in this together and if costs can be cut then the more the merrier.An impossibility? Take a look at France, Germany and Belgium - who very recently re-organised their Police in the same manner as Spain. Only Italy has a similar Policing system to the UK - and have about twice as many police as the other countries I mentioned when adjusted for population. I suspect, but do not know, that the UK is the same. There really does need to be a country wide review of Policing with a view to streamlining it and making it fit for the twentyfirst century. Thu 13 Jan 2011 15:02:21 GMT+1 Electric Hermit http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=80#comment215 213. Tio Terry"Spain has a National Police Force, supplemented by Guardia Civil in urban areas. Are you suggesting this country would not be able to have a comparable system?Maybe you are not thinking outside the box?Spain can manage this with very different local governments, for example, Catalonia. This is similar in lots of ways to Scotland."We are not talking about Spain. Nor are we talking about the UK. The proposals under discussion concern reorganisation of the police service(s) in Scotland. There are no proposals to create a UK-wide police service. The reason there are no such proposals being that such a thing is as close to being a political - if not practical - impossibility as makes no difference. Thu 13 Jan 2011 14:50:22 GMT+1 Tony http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=79#comment214 They messed up the Military so why not the police forces? Thu 13 Jan 2011 14:48:04 GMT+1 EdwinaTS http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=79#comment213 There should be one central operating system, but the governance should be split into multiple forces to ensure that infiltration/corruption of one force can be investigated by a different untainted force. Thu 13 Jan 2011 14:28:51 GMT+1 Tio Terry http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=79#comment212 201. At 1:18pm on 13 Jan 2011, Electric Hermit wrote:157. Tio Terry"No reasoned argument, no sensible reasons why, just I say so and thats that."On the contrary. There has been a great deal of reasoned argument. A number of contributors, including myself, (see for example #154) have sought to explain to you and others equally ill-informed just why the idea of a single UK-wide police service is a complete non-starter. You have chosen to ignore all of this. Why?I suspect that it is because you simply haven't bothered to educate yourself regarding the status of Scotland (and Wales and NI) within the UK. I mean today, in the 21st century, not a hundred years or more ago. Even then it would not have been the simple matter you imagine for a UK government to impose a UK-wide police service. Quite why you imagine it would be any easier post-devolution is a mystery.Were you even moderately well-informed regarding the wider political scene outside of your parish then you would appreciate that Scotland's secession from the union is infinitely more likely than Scotland accepting the ceding of powers to London that rightly belong with our own parliament and government. This includes, perhaps especially, control of our police.----------------------------------------------------------Spain has a National Police Force, supplemented by Guardia Civil in urban areas. Are you suggesting this country would not be able to have a comparable system?Maybe you are not thinking outside the box?Spain can manage this with very different local governments, for example, Catalonia. This is similar in lots of ways to Scotland. Thu 13 Jan 2011 14:27:07 GMT+1 sid_ts63 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=78#comment211 #206 forclarification sorry but you are wrong . if you took the time to look at the workings of NHS Scotland and compere that of NHS England you would find a vast difference in how they operate AND what both are trying to deliver the phrase comparing apples and pears springs to mindSid Thu 13 Jan 2011 14:01:08 GMT+1 ColourSarge http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=78#comment210 Grampian Police chief constable Colin McKerracher told BBC Scotland he was in favour of some kind of restructuring, but feared a single force could mean funding issues."A few of my chief constable colleagues are concerned about political interference in policing," he said, adding: "That might be an unfounded fear."Maybe the Chief Constables are simply more in fear of losing their jobs? Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:57:28 GMT+1 Electric Hermit http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=77#comment209 206. forclarification"Scotland doesn't have a separate health service. Provision in Scotland may be through NHS Scotland but it's part of the overall NHS."You are wrong. There are four separate health services in the UK - The National Health Service (England); NHS Scotland; NHS Wales and Health and Social Care in Northern Ireland(HSC). NHS Scotland operates independently and is funded by and accountable to the Scottish government. Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:51:52 GMT+1 Freedomknight http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=77#comment208 I think we are at the point where this could be considered right across the UK because communications are so imperoved, but my option would be for a local force funded as now by part Council Taxes-unarmed and looking after the local community, perhaps with an elected Chief. There would also be a National Force-that would be armed and be funded by Govt out of General Taxes. The National Force would not be under the authority of the Govt. or Party in Power or the Commons but run by a Public Trust which would be accessible for non confidential and non security information under the Freedom of Information Act. Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:50:36 GMT+1 Human0Bean http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=77#comment207 183. At 11:47am on 13 Jan 2011, Ron wrote:• 141. At 07:11am on 13 Jan 2011, Human0Bean wrote:83. At 6:02pm on 12 Jan 2011, Ron wrote:72. At 5:07pm on 12 Jan 2011, Ax0l0tl wrote:Should there be a single police force?Would it stop them murdering people with impunity?==============grow up--------------------------------------A single police force is unlikely to address the number of people who die in police custody. Despite the unacceptable number of deaths not a single police officer has been held accountable.Ron, do you find this acceptable?+++++++++++++++++++++I have never been treated without due respect and due courtesy by any Police officer in any situation I have had contact with them, so what make me special? ”Nothing” is the answer!If you refer to shootings, I would suggest you have never been in a position with a live round up the spout and a split second to make a decision to shoot or not shoot, I would love to see how you fare if you was in that position. I have been in that situation but even then it was simulated, so I always knew deep down that whatever I did was not real. It is a whole different ball game when it is for real.If you a referring to custody, without looking at case by case I cannot comment, but I suspect mistakes are made, you make them, I make them and the police make them. If you put a person by duty into a situation that normal people are not subject to, and a mistake is made then accountability has to be better training. Only deliberate acts are accountable and I have seen many police officers prosecuted when they have been deliberate in their actions.If a fireman made a mistake and the person he/she was trying to rescue was killed as a result, do you put that person in prison, if you did, I suggest we would not have any firemen. Or are you just a hater of the Police force?--------------------------------------------Is that a yes or a no? Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:42:55 GMT+1 forclarification http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=76#comment206 108. At 7:57pm on 12 Jan 2011, Reclaim_the_country wrote:We would be better off without the po lice.Birmingham 6 Guildford 4.===========================================Who did Birmingham play in the next round? Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:40:34 GMT+1 forclarification http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=76#comment205 120. At 11:03pm on 12 Jan 2011, Electric Hermit wrote:117. John Charlton"If you need a professional detective force nationally for seriouis crimes and terrorism, then so be it, but normal policing should be locally controlled. In those circumstances it would be sensible for any national force to cover the whole of the UK rather than pretend Scotland is a separate country (sorry to offend all the SNP supporters)."It is not SNP supporters you offend but the intelligence of all who read this - with a couple of similarly silly exceptions. Scotland is a separate country. We not only have a separate health service and education system but also a separate legal system, judicial system and prison service. Oh! And a separate government. It is the Justice Secretary of the Scottish government who has ultimate responsibility for policing in Scotland - not your Home Secretary. And it is the Scottish government which will decide this matter - not the UK government.I find it remarkable how ignorant some Englanders can be of the world outside their village.=============================================Scotland doesn't have a separate health service. Provision in Scotland may be through NHS Scotland but it's part of the overall NHS. Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:39:44 GMT+1 sid_ts63 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=76#comment204 afternoon, Scotland should move from 8 Police forces to 3 they should be North Scotland, East Scotland and West Scotland.we could then do exactly the same with Fire and Rescue and NHS Scotland IT'S CALLED JOINED UP THINKING just don't expect any politician of any party to even think about it oh and don't expect any chief executives or chief constables to support this.turkeys and voting for xmas spring to mind. Sid Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:38:31 GMT+1 Electric Hermit http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=75#comment203 172. Paul"Chazz isn't saying that driving while using a mobile phone isn't dangerous, just that it's not SO dangerous that the police need to concentrate their efforts on that to the exclusion of other things."Then he would first have to demonstrate that they do indeed "concentrate their efforts on that to the exclusion of other things".I read such "contributions" and what I hear is just another spoilt-brat driver who wants to be left to break the the law with impunity. If the police devote so much attention to motorists it is for a reason. The reason being that so many motorists break the law with such frequency. If only motorists would demonstrate that they could be trusted to behave responsibly and obey the law then think of the resources that would be freed-up for fighting crime.The problem does not lie with the police or their priorities. The problem lies with those who, however law-abiding they may be otherwise, turn into cretinous hooligans or dangerous sociopaths as soon as they get behind the wheel of a motor vehicle. Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:33:48 GMT+1 Wee-Scamp http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=75#comment202 One argument being put forward is that as the population of Scotland is only 5m or so then - like London - a single force will suffice. The problem with that argument is of course that our 5m is spread over a much larger area than London with concentrations of population around the Central Belt and other Cities. What we don't want is a police HQ based in Glasgow or Edinburgh that hasn't a clue as to what's going in Sutherland or the borders. It has to be three forces. Central belt up to Perth, The North and the Central belt down to the borders. Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:23:57 GMT+1 Electric Hermit http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=75#comment201 164. ExpatKS"Scotland first followed by E, W & NI, which then "for efficiency" are merged into "UK Police Ltd". They are outside public accountability already."Another one! Read and learn! There is no proposal to create a UK-wide police service. It would be all but impossible to do so. It is not going to happen. Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:22:42 GMT+1 Electric Hermit http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=74#comment200 157. Tio Terry"No reasoned argument, no sensible reasons why, just I say so and thats that."On the contrary. There has been a great deal of reasoned argument. A number of contributors, including myself, (see for example #154) have sought to explain to you and others equally ill-informed just why the idea of a single UK-wide police service is a complete non-starter. You have chosen to ignore all of this. Why?I suspect that it is because you simply haven't bothered to educate yourself regarding the status of Scotland (and Wales and NI) within the UK. I mean today, in the 21st century, not a hundred years or more ago. Even then it would not have been the simple matter you imagine for a UK government to impose a UK-wide police service. Quite why you imagine it would be any easier post-devolution is a mystery.Were you even moderately well-informed regarding the wider political scene outside of your parish then you would appreciate that Scotland's secession from the union is infinitely more likely than Scotland accepting the ceding of powers to London that rightly belong with our own parliament and government. This includes, perhaps especially, control of our police. Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:18:44 GMT+1 Phosgene http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=74#comment199 198. At 1:03pm on 13 Jan 2011, Dr Llareggub wrote:"I thought we had one, created by Thatcher during the miners strike as the uniformed branch of the tory party, soon to reappear during the public workers strikes and protests against the cuts (sorry reforms)."----------God knows how you managed to persuade yourself of this.This move sounds like a good idea. The same should be applied to the rest of the UK; it's about time. Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:11:04 GMT+1 chris berridge http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=73#comment198 It really doesn't matter how the police force is structured. The problem is the average policeman's inability to police properly without infringing someone's human rights or being allowed to make a "judgement" call. Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:06:37 GMT+1 ProfPhoenix http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=73#comment197 I thought we had one, created by Thatcher during the miners strike as the uniformed branch of the tory party, soon to reappear during the public workers strikes and protests against the cuts (sorry reforms). Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:03:44 GMT+1 pzero http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=73#comment196 117. At 10:46pm on 12 Jan 2011, John Charlton wrote:A single police force would mean that it would be more unaccountable than now. I prefer the idea of local forces with an elected commissioner so that the public had their say.If you need a professional detective force nationally for seriouis crimes and terrorism, then so be it, but normal policing should be locally controlled. In those circumstances it would be sensible for any national force to cover the whole of the UK rather than pretend Scotland is a separate country (sorry to offend all the SNP supporters)..........................................................................What a brilliant idea, establish a new agency to do the job already done! The whole point is to save money not waste even more! Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:03:19 GMT+1 Electric Hermit http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=72#comment195 148. RichardGrey"This appalling Government wants Police forces to merge for "effectiveness" yet want Schools to become completely independent for exactly the same reason."Which government? The Scottish government has no such policy regarding schools. And this HYS is about a Scottish government proposal to reorganise the police service in Scotland. Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:01:51 GMT+1 pzero http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=72#comment194 It is a brilliant idea, but never likely to happen - or if it does it will waste more money than it would have saved.Too many coucillors will lose there nice expenses for attending local police board meetings - either that or they will all end up travelling to Edinburgh for the meetings and by the time the 5 star hotels are paid for any savings gained will be long gone!Same with all the Chief Constables, nice golden handshakes all round or huge relocation packages!And then we come to another issue: Location. It cant be headquartered in either Glasgow or Edinburgh for fear of the old Glasgow v Edinburgh rivalry upsetting anyone, despite the fact that Strathclyde Police are just about to start building a new headquarters that no doubt will be built at huge public expense and probably closed before it even opens.And of course we will have to make sure that we waste millions making sure all the police cars have the same trendy logo that cost hundreds of thousands to design not to mention identical stripes. The same with uniforms, just look at what the idiot Sturgeon has done to the NHS! And of course all the old police signs on buildings will have to be replaced and no way could they possibly use up the old letter headed paper before ordering the new type with horrendous and horrendously expensive new logo!Will end up costing more than the planned savings like everything organised by the government! Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:00:39 GMT+1 Shazia http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=72#comment193 A lot of people seem to be all in favour or all against. I think it is worthwhile comparing the idea with other areas of life. In education it would not be a good idea to teach all children from a central location, with video links to each class, local schools are needed, but the books they use need to be published centrally. Similarly with hospitals, they are needed locally but some specialised services would be too expensice to have at every hospital. I think it is the same with the police, if it is all or nothing, either all centalised or all local, this may be too extreme, perhaps some things need to be local, so that a police officer knows the people and places, if he knows that 2 houses where he needs to take statements are near each other, he can deal with both jobs, if he hears on his radio that some is being attacked just around the corner he can go and help, rather than another officer being in a police station 20 miles away being allocated the job.Other services may need to be central, and maybe a lot more of them can be centralised. But I think to put into effect a major overhaul and get it wrong would be a mistake. Thu 13 Jan 2011 13:00:13 GMT+1 Electric Hermit http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=71#comment192 146. Ron"I have not suggested a UK wide force in any post I have made, it’s all in your head!! "But the post that you commented on was my response to a post that did. Try to keep up. Thu 13 Jan 2011 12:58:44 GMT+1 Electric Hermit http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=71#comment191 145. aka_bluepeter"However attempting to manage all of the front line police centrally will lead to chaos, disorder in the ranks and morale problems."Which might be why there are no proposals to do so.Would it not make more sense to keep the discussion to the options that are actually on the table? Thu 13 Jan 2011 12:56:23 GMT+1 coastwalker http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=70#comment190 I have no opinion on how the police force should be organized but I am very concerned that if it is changed that the people responsible for the change should be punished if it fails. Too often business process re engineering leads to a rotten result for the customers and the employees of the business itself. Thu 13 Jan 2011 12:54:20 GMT+1 intbel http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=70#comment189 Ax0l0tl (post#72) asked:"Would it stop them murdering people with impunity?"Nope. Not unles they are denied access to impunity.Perhaps there could be special training in the use of impunity with only appropriately certified officers being issued with impunity for which they would have to sign.Impunity is not an easily controlled weapon. Unlike a firearm it can not be seen or detected and can only be observed to have been used in retrospect by which time it is too late to do anything about it.No use asking for government advice for impunity is governments' weapon of choice. Governments do so many things with impunity that to list them would be impossible.Best bet is for us to use their own weapon against them. Hoist 'em with their own pétards, with impunity.Stand firm for our rights and liberty to express our freedoms while not complying with their nonsense! Do this with impunity!Or, as someone (might) have said: "Impune and be damned!" Thu 13 Jan 2011 12:53:02 GMT+1 Electric Hermit http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=70#comment188 137. JEFOPINION"If we had the same amount of police as traffic wardens with the same amount of zeal for catching traffic offenders there would be no crime full stop."Alternatively, if the police did not have to devote such a high proportion of their resources to motorists who imagine themselves to be above the law there would be more resources for fighting crime.I will repeat the advice that I gave to another such as you earlier. If you want to avoid the attentions of the police, don't break the law! Thu 13 Jan 2011 12:51:58 GMT+1 AMcR http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=69#comment187 After the Lockerbie bomber fiasco which we still don't know the truth about, MacAskill now wants to re-assert his authority and merge police forces?This is the same man who releases convicted criminals early to save a few bob never mind what they've done. How much will this save? Will the 'supercop' earn even more than at present along with assistants who'll also earn much more. Where will the accountability go?Dousn't look like a money saving exercise to me. Thu 13 Jan 2011 12:38:30 GMT+1 Alan Hammond http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=69#comment186 Why do we worry ourselves about ScotlandIf they want a separate Police force THEN LET THEM HAVE ONE it will NOT interfere with ours OR usThey are seperate from us anywayThey make their OWN decisions Government wise now Thu 13 Jan 2011 12:35:21 GMT+1 intbel http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=69#comment185 What I want to see is a police force which operates to serve and protect the people.At the moment it increasingly seem to protect specific interests at the expense of the people with many of its oficers no more than hired thugs.Soon, all those on the government's payroll will have to decide whether to serve a corrupt government or the people - they can not do both. Thu 13 Jan 2011 12:27:53 GMT+1 perkinwellbeck http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=68#comment184 what do you mean "SHOULD" there is ,1984 proved that,it is also ,if and when needed supplimented with members of the armed forces,of course this only becomes necessary when ones goverment declares war on sections of our communities.the beeb also does a good cover story for the goverment in these war situations... Thu 13 Jan 2011 12:11:06 GMT+1 Ken B http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=68#comment183 Have we any police left !!!!!!!!!! O yes they are busy keeping our lovely MP`s safe from an alleged terror threat yeh right . Dont worry about the general public we will cope . Thu 13 Jan 2011 12:09:00 GMT+1 Ron http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=67#comment182 • 141. At 07:11am on 13 Jan 2011, Human0Bean wrote: 83. At 6:02pm on 12 Jan 2011, Ron wrote:72. At 5:07pm on 12 Jan 2011, Ax0l0tl wrote:Should there be a single police force?Would it stop them murdering people with impunity?==============grow up--------------------------------------A single police force is unlikely to address the number of people who die in police custody. Despite the unacceptable number of deaths not a single police officer has been held accountable.Ron, do you find this acceptable?+++++++++++++++++++++I have never been treated without due respect and due courtesy by any Police officer in any situation I have had contact with them, so what make me special? ”Nothing” is the answer!If you refer to shootings, I would suggest you have never been in a position with a live round up the spout and a split second to make a decision to shoot or not shoot, I would love to see how you fare if you was in that position. I have been in that situation but even then it was simulated, so I always knew deep down that whatever I did was not real. It is a whole different ball game when it is for real.If you a referring to custody, without looking at case by case I cannot comment, but I suspect mistakes are made, you make them, I make them and the police make them. If you put a person by duty into a situation that normal people are not subject to, and a mistake is made then accountability has to be better training. Only deliberate acts are accountable and I have seen many police officers prosecuted when they have been deliberate in their actions.If a fireman made a mistake and the person he/she was trying to rescue was killed as a result, do you put that person in prison, if you did, I suggest we would not have any firemen. Or are you just a hater of the Police force? Thu 13 Jan 2011 11:47:36 GMT+1 NameAgain http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=67#comment181 Whoever is preparing these questions for some time now, they very well know that no single police force or a billion branch of them can save you from danger. Being protected doesnt fit your nature. You just want to die and to kill to help dying. Thats why you have never stopped the pain. Just to show that you wanted dying so much and against all odds. Thu 13 Jan 2011 11:47:02 GMT+1 Steve http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=67#comment180 Having one Police force will not make the slightest bit of different to local community Policing; all it will do is allow our government to further control where the money is spent, providing cover yet again for the rich famous and preferential.It will also lead to massive central control centres instead of local networks, so when you make that call your going to end up speaking to someone who knows nothing about your area, you might as well direct all calls to an Indian call centre thousand of miles away, and look at the quality of service we get from them?The 2012 games are coming, that’s going to require a massive amount of finance with regard to Policing, I wonder where that moneys going to come from?Keep each individual force separate with own budget. Thu 13 Jan 2011 11:45:11 GMT+1 ruffled_feathers http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=66#comment179 One or several police forces will make little difference if we lose things such as the Forensic Science Service to private industry, whose sole aim is to provide a service at a profit to themselves.I shall probably be removed, but at least you might have a chance to have your voice heard if enough signatures can be collected, unlike HYS which is only a soapbox.(Moderators - PLEASE can you leave this one on - it isn't an advert, and people only sign it if they want to, and it isn't totally unconnected with this topic.)www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/savethefss Thu 13 Jan 2011 11:42:26 GMT+1 teedoff http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=66#comment178 "176. At 11:03am on 13 Jan 2011, Paul wrote:154. At 08:57am on 13 Jan 2011, teedoff wrote:I can accept a certain amount of federalism, from teams such as Interpol, to carry out cross-border investigations, but I would liken us to USA, where each state has its own police force and laws and statutes, and nobody would suggest amalgamating those together."Well, In the US states are separate legislative units, with different laws, and a US state is of a similar size to the UK, so a US state police force covers at least the same area as England or Scotland.So, I can see the point for a different police force in Scotland than for England (different legislation), but struggle to see a strong reason (other than inertia) for not having a single police force in Scotland or England.I'm not sure it would save much money though as it would still need to be regionalised for better effect, but a single force would stop 'border' issues.___________________________________I think we're actually both arguing the same point, Paul. I agree with a single Scottish force. My argument was against a single UK force, due to a plethora of reasons, but separate legal systems being one case in point. In another comment I also (tongue in cheek) suggested a single European police force, with country regionalisation. Given enough time and lack of argument I can see this happening, along with the European Fighting force and other public body amalgamations. Each country in Europe really must decide if it is FOR the EU or against it and become a federation or retreat to individualisation. But that's another debate. Let us agree that a single force is the way forward for Scotland, but not the entire UK. Thu 13 Jan 2011 11:32:50 GMT+1 TheGrassAintGreener http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=66#comment177 In Scotland, yes there should be just one. It's mostly hills and anguses anyway! Thu 13 Jan 2011 11:21:33 GMT+1 HonestMP http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=65#comment176 Yes have one police force that does the job evenly across the county unlike the Dorset Police deciding that they will take the easy option and hit the motorist hard with using the over used safety excuse.Do we already have one called ACPO? Thu 13 Jan 2011 11:12:52 GMT+1 Paul http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=65#comment175 154. At 08:57am on 13 Jan 2011, teedoff wrote:I can accept a certain amount of federalism, from teams such as Interpol, to carry out cross-border investigations, but I would liken us to USA, where each state has its own police force and laws and statutes, and nobody would suggest amalgamating those together."Well, In the US states are separate legislative units, with different laws, and a US state is of a similar size to the UK, so a US state police force covers at least the same area as England or Scotland.So, I can see the point for a different police force in Scotland than for England (different legislation), but struggle to see a strong reason (other than inertia) for not having a single police force in Scotland or England.I'm not sure it would save much money though as it would still need to be regionalised for better effect, but a single force would stop 'border' issues. Thu 13 Jan 2011 11:03:46 GMT+1 MrWonderfulReality http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=64#comment174 Mr Clarke said: "The decision to close any prison is a difficult one but one that we have had to make. Closing outdated and expensive prisons is an important step in our strategy to provide a secure and modern, fit-for-purpose prison estate, while improving efficiency and value for the taxpayer.With less prisons, there will be less need for police numbers to catch criminals and imprison them Thu 13 Jan 2011 11:01:37 GMT+1 John Mc http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=64#comment173 168. At 10:29am on 13 Jan 2011, D wrote:Who needs them, the police send under funded specials out to tackle crime while the MET is just a strong arm gun for hire for the government and the rest of the forces are just escorts for their little BNP EDL Buddies round the country.D please do not compare one set of extremists with the other as both are extremists and are wrong to be so. Unfortunately terror watch is out of my control and it seems to me all extremists should be watched equally so challenge the system that allows this but do not make it one sided or you will end up polarising your support. There can or should be no favourites.I do sympathise with you for feeling the police do not manage or deal with crime effectively having suffered the specials myself and never had anything useful out of the force except the crime report number for insurance purposes.1m people, a figure I do not know its origin or truthfulness, seems a small percentage to the 60 million Brits present in the UK. If you are on the receiving end of the police I do not think anyone feels fairly treated, I know I did not when pulled over on a sunny day in my car and forced to produce papers and documents, have tyres checked etc because they claimed I was using my phone. Court threw it out, had call logs produced and the claim of following me for 4 miles on the phone when I was sitting in a tunnel with no signal, again a proven point, I was subjected to 2 days in court and no recourse. They even tried speeding but google showed that I could only have travelled 500 yds as I had been in a tunnel behind trucks at slow speed. Some are not fair and need to be challenged.You can only challenge the system that allows your claims to exist and I support you in that.The question is of one Police Force for Scotland, I remember the Poll Tax being tested in Scotland before it become a UK thing...I wonder.... Thu 13 Jan 2011 10:55:05 GMT+1 Average-UK-Male http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=64#comment172 168. At 10:29am on 13 Jan 2011, D wrote:Who needs them, the police send under funded specials out to tackle crime while the MET is just a strong arm gun for hire for the government and the rest of the forces are just escorts for their little BNP EDL Buddies round the country! As an Asian we have been told for the past 15 years that the Police Force is a Racist Institute and can not guarantee we would be treated fairly! so much so they have 8 muslims on terror watch but only ever prosecuted 15 for terror offences and in the same period tehy have arrested and prosecuted over 15 white extremists for having bomb making equipment, but no white extremists on terror watch never mind BNP boy responsible for the Nail Bombs. Or the fact teh Facists ideology has taken the lives of more Brits than any other conflict! maybe White britain would like to review its actions in WW2 and say yes Hitler was right, coz over 1m white voters thinks so! proportionatly more in the Police force! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++just a couple of points, the topic is about the Scottish Police (I presume you can read the topic) not the met. Secondly it is very easy to play the racist card and you give the impression you are attempting to try and hijack the topic so as to have a rant at the police. In any organisation there will be some bad apples the same as there is a minority of Asians who cannot move forward. No please be a good boy and try to stick to the topic. Thu 13 Jan 2011 10:53:23 GMT+1 Paul http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=63#comment171 134. At 02:07am on 13 Jan 2011, Electric Hermit wrote:132. Chazz Trinder"I am not persuaded that the distraction provided by a mobile phone is all that different from other distractions a driver might encounter ."So! I have to choose between the solid weight of considerable scientific evidence and the unsupported opinion of a very evidently prejudiced individual.Imagine my dilemma!"Chazz isn't saying that driving while using a mobile phone isn't dangerous, just that it's not SO dangerous that the police need to concentrate their efforts on that to the exclusion of other things.Also, studies HAVE found that other things are at least as distracting as using a mobile phone. How many deaths have been prevented since the law against mobile phone use while driving was brought in?Could the money spent on purchasing and operating 'unmarked lorries' and training police officers as HGV drivers have been put to more efficient use elsewhere? Thu 13 Jan 2011 10:52:44 GMT+1 Billy The Bull http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=63#comment170 Police centralisation may encourage economies of scale and better information sharing/processing BUT there is always the danger that local issues can become lost in what MIGHT end up as a "bureaucratic jungle"?Then again one would risk having top heavy middle management which seems to be an inherent feature of very large organisations. I think that on balance we are better sticking with the present regional policing structure. We dont want to see D.C.I's in charge of media and P.R. or handling the flow of court paperwork. Thu 13 Jan 2011 10:50:04 GMT+1 D http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=63#comment169 What? one place where the POlice will all fall under one common name....... i thought they did, its call ed the BNP Barbeque and Police Recruitment Festival! Family fun for all.... Thu 13 Jan 2011 10:48:56 GMT+1 KenThompson http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2011/01/should_there_be_a_single_polic.html?page=62#comment168 Well....after telephoning the police a couple of years ago, to report a serious collision on the A38 Expressway caused by a drunk driver (Exeter/Plymouth road) and being asked "Where is the A38 and where is Devon Sir"? relayed from a control room in Northamptonshire, I have NIL faith in the police or their systems whatsoever!But then giving out speeding tickets is so much easier!! Thu 13 Jan 2011 10:46:59 GMT+1