Comments for en-gb 30 Sat 20 Dec 2014 14:48:08 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at tsigili They aren't even trying to. Fri 12 Nov 2010 16:17:16 GMT+1 Louis Lingg While China is backing and bankrolling Burma, the Generals will never be overthrown and the country will sink into the living hell that is North Korea. If China could be persuaded to change tack and the UN threaten regime change there may be some hope of change but don't hold your breath. I hate mentioning the UN because they are corrupt and spineless but who else can do it? Thu 11 Nov 2010 19:38:54 GMT+1 Faheyclone The only reason the Burmese people are living with the oppressive regime in power is that it suits the purposes of the Chinese government. South Korea, Tibet, Mongolia, Tiawan.....The Chinese onluy want what's theirs...and that little piece next to it.And people say there's no sense in Obama spending so much time in India. 30 years of right wing rhetoric has softened people's heads. Terrorism can't bring down Western Civilization. The Chinese can and will unless far-sighted leaders start forming a coalition to thwart their manipulations. Thu 11 Nov 2010 19:38:01 GMT+1 regjay The short answer is NEVER...until the junta is ousted. Thu 11 Nov 2010 16:40:37 GMT+1 Paddy Nair Think Obama's recent visit to India should have some impact.90 % of India supports Aung Sang su kyi but pressure from China on Burma and the possibility of getting pushed out of Burma at the expense of China has forced the Indian authorities to keep quiet.If the US gets actively involved through India there is a multiplier of democratic forces diplomatically speaking and,the Chinese pressure on Burma could be lessened somewhat and something could be worked out to foster genuine democracy. Thu 11 Nov 2010 11:57:59 GMT+1 foxyeric Take the pledge by Nick Clegg about student fees then you will see we too don't have a Democracy just lies like any Government from the East. Thu 11 Nov 2010 05:11:14 GMT+1 mary gravitt After Election 2000, I ask myself the same thing about US elections. Thu 11 Nov 2010 00:02:58 GMT+1 DPStL It's very difficult to wonder why the Junta held elections especially as everyone knows that the whole thing was a SHAM. Who are these despots trying to convince?It's a pity the world doesn't shun these evil generals but of course there's no chance, as the country has oil & gas - the much abused population really don't matter. Wed 10 Nov 2010 22:43:36 GMT+1 Ali Haider Kazmi Fitz13 wrote:I think it was Churchhill who said:"Democracy is the worst form of Government, except for all the others that have been tried."_______________________________________________________________________And Churchill did his best to bring democracy to Iraq by dropping poison gas on the Kurds in the 1920's. Chemical Winston not only used poison against the Kurds, he went to lengths to admonish those who had any moral qualms about it. The later day Churchills are trying to bring democracy to former colonies including Iraq and Myanmar. Wed 10 Nov 2010 20:06:25 GMT+1 panchopablo 146. At 01:54am on 09 Nov 2010, Andy wrote:140. At 6:05pm on 08 Nov 2010, panchopablo wrote:The Junta in Burma is no different than the EU......both corrupt,self serving and treat the masses with contempt."So if given the choice of living in Burma or anywhere in the EU, you would have to flip a coin, why not go out there for a few years and see how you like it, you might decided to stay, hopefully."I have always wanted to see SE Asia but i will have to put in on hold until i finally see the final nail go in the coffin of EUSSR.Ireland going bankrupt could cause it. Wed 10 Nov 2010 18:57:39 GMT+1 cloggy I have doubts if the situation for the Burmese commoners will change if and when Aung San Suu Kyi rises to power. I feel, that she employs our feelings on how a country should be administrated and our concept of democratic rule to pick-up her late father's legacy. It is not to be ruled out that her accession to the presidency will in its Burmese context imply a return to the feudal rule that persons of certain rank have a legitimate claim to a position in the administration matching their rank, and that anyone who delivered services to Aung San Suu Kyi for attaining power has a right to be rewarded with a position in her government.I do not hope that this way free elections will only mean that Burma has swapped the pest of military rule for the cholera of nepotism and clientelism. Wed 10 Nov 2010 12:24:37 GMT+1 Chewbacca May I say 20 years ago the people of Burma voted in a fair election, and they voted for democracy. They are desperate for it. It what the Burmese people have been wanting since 1962. Its not about western powers imposing their ideals on another culture, the Burmese people have a very good understanding of politcs and Daw Aung San Suu Kyi is a world class stateswoman, someone that even the western leaders could learn from. So please stop diverting the topic back to western policy and dismount from your high horses. If you don't have a full understanding of this situation then why are you bothering to comment. Wed 10 Nov 2010 11:07:44 GMT+1 jabbajockey This post has been Removed Wed 10 Nov 2010 00:43:30 GMT+1 peter petros as long as China wants the Junta to run Burma thats how it will be elections or not. the Generals are just puppets for the Chinese government and no one can do anything to change that.this is the sad reality Wed 10 Nov 2010 00:04:35 GMT+1 oberst We should not impost our (western) idea of demoncracy on others who are different to us in culture and social fabric. Government and media in the west are obsessed with demoncracy and have no hesistation to preach or want others to subscribe to our way of thinking.China's paternalstic brand of government(rather than authoritarian) works miracle for China, in comparison demoncracy in India has not bring about much social improvement there. So anyone preach Burma to have western style democracy should think twice. Tue 09 Nov 2010 23:43:22 GMT+1 Bob Ezergailis Democracy in Burma is as much an impossible dream, at this time, as is democracy in Communist China. It does not exist and cannot exist, partially because Burma is a sugarplum that China wants and will take by any means that it can take it. Tue 09 Nov 2010 23:26:52 GMT+1 joe kahn Obama was in India to sell arms,to make sure Monsanto and cargill are protected.Nothing ws said about Warren Anderson or Union Carbide,Kashmir was never brought up,the Maoists were'nt discussed.It seems the U.S.wants closer ties to India because of access to Nepal,Tibet,Burma and create instability in Pakistan the U.S.has been quite successful in doing that.The U.S.doesn't the Chinese to have relationships with the Burmese govt,we all know what the real reasons are behind the visit to India.THe U.S.has played into India's scheme to strengthen India by purchasing hardware from the U.S.India used to buy from Russia and Europe because they didn't care when India tested it's nuclear arsenal in 1998,it's a better deal for the indians,the U.S.being used and are fools and don't see it.India is trying to protect itself from China and the also nervous about the Chinese emergence as an economic and military power in the region...The next two decades in that region will be interesting to watch.India will probably help the U.S.stir trouble in Burma,Tibet,Sri Lanka. Tue 09 Nov 2010 19:34:08 GMT+1 joe kahn Bush(dumbo)and his nursery rhyme memoirs should be a hit with readers around the country,i don't think anyone else is going to read this crap.This is the guy who hijacked democracy in america and around the world.Secretary Clinton wants to hold the oppressors responsible and accountable for human rights abuses!Who gives her the right to do this?we do,by we i mean us idiots who haven't protested enough around the world to get the U.S.out of Iraq and Afghanistan,Israel out of Palestine,we the people enabled these rogue leaders to rape and murder innocent women and children in Iraq,Afghanistan and Palestine.Democracy in Burma means only one thing to the U.S.and the West,open your society up for us,so we can come and steal your resources,exploit the social fabric of society and prostitute your politicians in the West.Democracy in the West equals whoring around and selling yourself. Tue 09 Nov 2010 19:04:55 GMT+1 elfrieda Burma is not our country and here we go again telling them what we think they should do , before you know it we will be sending troops over and saying its all in the name of Democracy , its time we let other countrys sort out their own salvation until the people move to take over their own country it will always stay like it is , the people have to want to change what they have , having said that look what we let stay in power for 12 + years, i wonder when we will wake up . Tue 09 Nov 2010 19:00:37 GMT+1 Dustin83v Many people in Burma (Myanmar) are impoverished. The Government maintains order and motivation. Military regimes usually dominate. South Asia needs economic resurgence to prosper and develop democratic principles. Tue 09 Nov 2010 18:57:40 GMT+1 D G Cullum This word is used by the West as if they know what it means and only they knows how it works and only they can so other countries who they deem not to democratic how to be so and if you do not do it like we tell you like putting in Govenment of our choosing we will bomb you and make war on you and kill you because we are democratic countries (the West) and your not to me its imperial ideas that we have never got over the fact that other which to run their countries the way they want seems to disturb the Establishment and this democratic none elected body rules this country. Tue 09 Nov 2010 17:07:55 GMT+1 YoungAdolf A country that bans cricket; afternoon tea; and ballroom dancing; let alone eating in restaurants after 2100 hours can never achieve democracy.So the answer is no.Long Live the Karens and their fight for liberty. Tue 09 Nov 2010 16:52:54 GMT+1 powermeerkat "What kind of peaceful broker can the Americans be when they strongly support the Zionists."And Pakistani regime which sponsors terrorism in India and tacitly supports Taliban and al Qaida via its duplicitous ISI. Tue 09 Nov 2010 14:18:15 GMT+1 powermeerkat "Can Burma achieve democracy?"Not whilst the military are in charge.And Burmese right-wing junta is staunchly supported and defend by the left-wing regime in China. Tue 09 Nov 2010 14:15:21 GMT+1 Fitz13 107. At 06:58am on 08 Nov 2010, SnoddersB wrote:It is strange how Western Politicians will be first to critisise third world governments but will not allow their populations a say in important issues. What is democracy? To me it would have been having a say before Brown signed our country away.-------------------------------------The people of this country did have a say, it was the general election which voted Labour in for a thrid term. That democracy.I think it was Churchhill who said:"Democracy is the worst form of Government, except for all the others that have been tried."I must say I agree! Tue 09 Nov 2010 14:07:23 GMT+1 Casitian Quite clearly democracy is not possible in this country at least in the concept that western countries haveso maybe a britsh style parliamentary "democracy" would be appropriatethe system is designed to allow a party grouping to rule its self allowing 3 major groupings to contend for power via a ballot box each with a leader elected by the groupallow the populace to vote only for a party or its representative to sit in a debating chamber with the others, making sure the local area of election is small enough to make real democracy impossible.thuspower groups like the army retain power without civil unrest Tue 09 Nov 2010 13:56:16 GMT+1 fishinmad This post has been Removed Tue 09 Nov 2010 13:31:29 GMT+1 Chewbacca I just want to make a point to all the 'why should we care' people. Prior to 1962 Burma was the richest country in South East Asia. Today Burma should be about as wealthy as South Korea and Singapore never-mind the likes of Thailand and Malaysia if governed properly. A democratic well run Burma would also be pro EU and pro US and especially pro UK due to historical links. The UK would have a massive trading partner in Asia creating wealth and jobs for both countries. However, as it is Burma is politically protected and economically monopolized by China and has been artificially kept poor for 50 years. This is not in Britain's interest and therefore not in your interest. Even if you don't care about human rights abuses then at least you ought to care about the UK's massive economic advantage if Burma were to go democratic because that would affect YOU. Tue 09 Nov 2010 11:15:53 GMT+1 MellorSJ Dunno.But the headline in the Bangkok Post this morning is "Border Battle Spurs Exodus."The battle seems to involve Karen rebels.This indicates that more than democracy is an issue. They also need to deal with tribal/ethnic rights. Tue 09 Nov 2010 11:09:37 GMT+1 Italophile "Can Burma achieve democracy?"Not whilst the military are in charge. Tue 09 Nov 2010 10:27:47 GMT+1 osuagwu This is only a 'kangaroo' election.This utter deception and supression can only to to civil strive in the long run. Tue 09 Nov 2010 10:04:14 GMT+1 Positive Thinker Who are WE to promote democracy when our own system has generated voter apathy, blatant scepticism, and anti-voting. We find ourselves electing into power people that we do not trust (& backed by undisclosed or dubious sources). Democracy is a fine concept, but is there any real democratic model that we may all follow...? > In this day and age, I would opt for referendum on ALL major decisions - only then would I believe that we have a genuine influence on how the country is run. Tue 09 Nov 2010 08:57:21 GMT+1 martyjg These military Junta's are run by short sighted people! Change will come and they will be deposed. They can not be thinking of the long term security of their families who will have to bear the burden of their crimes! The world is getting smaller, there is no hiding place!Have they not the sense to learn of revolutions throughout history? Apparently not!To rule a country through fear results in 'Madame Guillotine' or the noose! Tue 09 Nov 2010 08:29:37 GMT+1 matt-stone Zaheer Uddin @ make your points quite clearly and validly there. Dictatorship is practised the world over. Britain and America both momentarily under Bush and Blair entered the dictatorship modes to enable them to launch their illegal wars in the Middle East. As you can see now Dubya coming out with his book and interviews but not a word of apology or contrition, just like our Tony....they both know full well if they start apologising now, legal proceedings will be instigated in courts up and down the country. They're not out of the woods yet, there are many obvious aspects available in which they could be brought to the Hague to answer for themselves, once the case of Charles Taylor, another dictator and war criminal, is out of the way.Will Burma at last emerge from self-imposed isolation and rid itself of Army Colonels? Maybe this is the first step towards achieving that, but it could take years !! Tue 09 Nov 2010 08:11:29 GMT+1 Zaheer Uddin Myanmar is ruled by dictators clad in uniforms decorated with ribbons and medals braiding their chests and shoulder boards, while in most other countries dictators disguise themselves in civvies, but within them are thugs, crooks, financial wizards and crafty self interest groups; explain me the difference!Where is democracy, name me one?The father of Myanmar liberation was Dr. Aung San who was assassinated and he was also the father of the Nobel laureate Su Kyi, she spent most of her life in prison or house arrest on trumped up charges by the junta.The world is made up of powers with vested interests, no one cares about the poor, down trodden and helpless.40 million people in Pakistan have been rendered homeless by floods, more than 10,000 Km of highways have been washed away, thousands of bridges have collapsed, just stop the expenditure of war in Afghanistan and divert it to rebuild that poor country, and here is President Obama expecting Pakistan to increase its efforts to fight the Militants. He seems to have lost his marbles, Pakistan is between sixes and sevens and he expects eliminating the Militants when his Drones have destroyed innocent civilians.What kind of peaceful broker can the Americans be when they strongly support the Zionists.What kind of democracy they expect in Iran, a country which suffered a open war through US puppet SADDAM. Iran was and is a civilized nation before the West was still living in the caves.What kind of peace they expect in Afghanistan when they kill and destroy village after village. Just watch when they return with their bloody noses and broken jaws. PRIDE HAS A FALL.Myanmar is an itsy bitsy state whose rare earths, gems and minerals are already controlled by the Western Corporations. Tue 09 Nov 2010 06:35:09 GMT+1 aungba Why do the generals need an election in the first place? The western world will assume that they need to legitimize their rule and more acceptable civilian rule. It is wrong to assume that the inner circle of generals which recently had to give up their army post are pleased to move to the new parliament as elected MP's. The recent elections in Burma is just a breeze before the creation of a perfect storm to come. There are so many unknowns. What will Daw Aung San Su Kyi do after her release? Will General Than Shwe really retire as everybody expects? The big question with the armed minority tribes with a separate states in mind. I believe this is a turning point for Burma. Either try to work with the new faced government to have more political space and hopefully in the mid term create a more acceptable political atmosphere, or more longer political quagmire and stagnation like the last 4 decades and remain as the only basket case nation in the ASEAN and Asia as an whole.Democracy in Burma will be a dream for many. But as a dream, when you wake up from the dream, reality will sink in and I'm sure it will not be a happy one. Tue 09 Nov 2010 05:06:53 GMT+1 kevthebrit About as free and fair as when G W Bush was 'voted' in! Tue 09 Nov 2010 02:47:06 GMT+1 Andy 140. At 6:05pm on 08 Nov 2010, panchopablo wrote:The Junta in Burma is no different than the EU......both corrupt,self serving and treat the masses with contempt.So if given the choice of living in Burma or anywhere in the EU, you would have to flip a coin, why not go out there for a few years and see how you like it, you might decided to stay, hopefully. Tue 09 Nov 2010 01:54:21 GMT+1 joe kahn What democracy?..The kind the u.S.and britain gave to Iraq and Afghanistan...Or the kind Palestine is receiving from Israel.Democracy=the West manipulating the poor into stealing their resources and raping their land,murdering their innocent. Mon 08 Nov 2010 22:48:55 GMT+1 California Mojo Is this really controversial?Who's suggesting it's a fair election? Mon 08 Nov 2010 22:17:49 GMT+1 plainspeakit I DO wish people would stop talking about "democracy" - even in our own system, the majority of people DON'T get their wishes! Fortunately, persecution here is nothing compared to the scale of persecution in Burma. WE don't know we're born - and most Brits are too pig ignorant of their own history to know much about the sacrifices made by those who have gone before. IF Burma ever has the kind of freedom we would hope for it, its first lesson is NOT to follow the British way but develop a system that works in Burma. Plainly the current system in Burma does not work. The failure of the authorities to help their own people when the Tsunami hit was proof of that. However, it is easy to SAY that democracy is a panacea. Burma / Myanmar is a complex ethnic mix and the Shan and Karen areas barely seem to fit into the idea of a 'Burmese state'. Mon 08 Nov 2010 20:23:36 GMT+1 plainspeakit It's difficult to have a reasonable discussion with men who hold guns and have armies at their disposal! Mon 08 Nov 2010 20:18:42 GMT+1 ib42 Of course it 'can'! "Will' it is the question, and the answer is, Of course, not!" Mon 08 Nov 2010 18:54:33 GMT+1 panchopablo The Junta in Burma is no different than the EU......both corrupt,self serving and treat the masses with contempt. Mon 08 Nov 2010 18:05:19 GMT+1 TruthBot Well, if they do, then they will be the first nation to do so. Mon 08 Nov 2010 17:16:47 GMT+1 buzzingworld I have never been there but understand it is a beautiful country, populated by a peace-loving people whose only desire in life is to have exactly that, a life. That means a life free of repression, oppression, aggression and depression. It's really not that much to ask when you think about it, but then you and I have the freedom to think, and they, the man or woman in the street in that country, don't. North Korea comes to mind also. And to a somewhat lesser extent China, Iran, Egypt, Syria, Libya, Zimbabwe and the many other countries (with similarly unopposed or otherwise unelected regimes) of the world that, to the democratically-minded outsider, have a lot to answer for but are not required to do so. Not to us. Not even to themselves, be they members of United Nations or not. Quite possibly we will be asking the very same question in 25 years or more from now and, whilst the rest of the world's community, save a few, will have moved on, Burma will not have done so at all, regardless any international pressure. We simply have to recognise that military dogma exists and is here to stay, with impunity. Yes, it is outmoded. Yes, it is abominable and yes, it needs to be changed. But unless there is some kind of "intifada sans frontieres" across all such disenfranchised nations, not much will happen to improve their lot. We are witnessing something, today, that will be in the history books of tomorrow, and I really do wonder what will be the catalyst for that necessary change. Will it be another world war? A catastrophic event in the form of a pandemic disease, perhaps a flu or other virus that remains resistant to all antedotes? Or a rather unwelcome visit from outer space, such as the one that wiped out the dinosaurs millenia ago? Or could it ever be possible, one day, that human common sense will prevail and that the United Nations will serve countries like Burma a notice of political untenability, the yellow card, if they wish to remain a viable entity for their people, to their people, by their people?And do I honestly think for one moment that someone in Burma's regime will read my HYS contribution, or anyone else's, and actually pay attention to it? Have some kind of guilt conscience, repent, and then go about undoing all the harm that has already been done to the people of that country for the benefit of its future? If I believe that then I also believe in the tooth fairy. Mon 08 Nov 2010 16:51:39 GMT+1 SCEPTICAL I read somewhere that America dismissed the electionions as being corrupt, pot and kettle? Mon 08 Nov 2010 16:15:02 GMT+1 colin who are we to talk,this country is going to be much worse than them or Zimbabwe,what a disgraceful country this is sick and filthy great Cameron. Mon 08 Nov 2010 15:32:31 GMT+1 peevedoff Not in my lifetime and i have been there.Besides China calls the shots in Burma as they are the ones raping the country blind of all its resources and paying off the Generals.Its very obvious if you go there.Take a look up North off the tourist track as see the endless lorries of resources especially hard woods flooding across the border into China on roads that only have a one way direction.The burmese junta are the most corrupt and inhumane government on the face of the planet.Fact. Mon 08 Nov 2010 15:28:51 GMT+1 tsigili Not at this time. Mon 08 Nov 2010 15:17:03 GMT+1 Britman There is no way the Generals wish to relinquish their hold on power,one understands they are siphoning off cash from selling Natural Gas to China. The election is a complete farce, the people know it as does the outside world.The only people who could influence the military junta are the Chinese....they are as yet still an unknown quantity, and being undemocratic themselves it is very questionable as to whether they will do anything to help matters. Mon 08 Nov 2010 15:07:26 GMT+1 Ahsan Sarkar It is a miracle that the military junta in Burma did succeed in carrying on dictatorship for twenty years.Human rights have been denied to the people of the country.Labour standards were completely disregarded.Workers, particularly of the minority communities,were subjected to forced labour.Elections in this country under the hegemony of the junta is , thus, going to be a farce.The entire election process is going to be stagemanaged.The results of the elections are a foregone conclusion-the junta supported parties are going to win and form the Government. The reservation of 25% seats for the army is ridiculous.Reports of a low voter turnout and wide irregularities are going to rob the elections of any credibility.Burma elections can achieve nothing-it can simply put the civilian garb on a military dictatorship.It is not for nothing that the legendary democratic leader Aung San Suukyi's party National League for Democracy,since renamed as National Democratic Front, is boycotting the polls.It is reported that the junta has warned the voters that unless they cast their ballots they will lose their jobs.Under the circumstances, how can Burma see true democracy. Mon 08 Nov 2010 15:00:24 GMT+1 leoRoverman Of course democracy can be achieved. The politicians will tell the electorate what democracy is then they'll tell them how to vote. Then the electorate votes and the politicians tell them its democracy. Simples! when anyone actually encounters democracy in this country please let me know. In the mean time what we are looking for is a workable solution in any country. Since nothing is perfect and Socrates tells us that democracy is one the worst three ways to run a country why do we worry? The Greeks taught that the method of Government is discriptive, it is the people that make it good or bad, so what's wrong with a benevolent tyranny? Since the dawn of time the use of power has been fraud- what people want is simple truths. The simple truth is that power equates to corruption wether here or in Burma. I wonder if Ayng has deliberated long and hard over the difference of a stand on principle and political pragmatism, after all she can alter nothing whilst she remains under house arrest. Mon 08 Nov 2010 14:52:16 GMT+1 SPEEDTHRILLS More important to achieve stability than so called democracy; it is not necessarily right for all cultures. Burma, needs good government (don't we all) and a brief read of it's post WW2 history leads me to believe it was run by Nu Labours' scouts. Disgraceful. As for the issue raised in HYS, well, we can get teak and what little oil there is from other places, so democracy, or not, in Burma is a long way down my western list of concerns. Mon 08 Nov 2010 14:47:59 GMT+1 Graham Myanmar is an example of a country wasted by post-war socialism. This country has gone from riches to rags as the result of mis-management and mis-rule. It is Zimbabwe in SE Asia. The place is like a time capsule containing magnificent, but crumbling, British public buildings and bizarre Eastern block orwellian office blocks. It is a Singapore that stayed put after the empire and the people, some of the best educated and friendliest in SE Asia, only yearn for the free market lives the other countries in the region have adopted. It would quickly become an economic force if it did achieve freedom.The elections will do nothing as the ruling junta is just as viscious and intransigent as the Zimbawian and North Korean socialist rulers. They will have to be removed, by force. Mon 08 Nov 2010 14:23:21 GMT+1 Andy 105. At 06:36am on 08 Nov 2010, chrislabiff wrote:Can Burma achieve democracy?Can we?124. At 1:17pm on 08 Nov 2010, Sepenenre wrote:Maybe a better question would be "Will England ever achieve democracy?"-------------------------------Suffering from memory loss? We had a General Election last year, and guess what the ruling party didn't win and they are no longer in Power. If you somehow think that the lack of democracy in Burma is equal to that you think the democratic process is like in the UK then you are quite twisted. Just because the BNP or UKIP (or who ever you voted for) didn't win you think there was some sort of conspiracy to cover it and keep they white man down.If you can point out any period in the last 20years were a UK government lost a general election but decided to stay in power for 20year then please do tell. Mon 08 Nov 2010 13:44:12 GMT+1 Kevin Blankinship Can Burma achieve true democracy?The Burmese are a nation divided into two main parts: the ruling military elite and everyone else. But a close look reveals the country to be made up of Burmese and non-Burmese ethnic groups. It is more like Yugoslavia, with many tribes considering themselves to be separate nations.In such a situation it is impossible to have a cohesive society. Instead one has one group dominating the others. Self-determination can keep the peace by a partition of the country into a confederation at best. Once that is achieved, only then can one talk about truly representative government. Mon 08 Nov 2010 13:43:42 GMT+1 BluesBerry President Obama has accused Myanmar's government of stealing election, violating human rights. This is the kettle calling the pot black.President Barack Obama says it is unacceptable for Myanmar's government to "steal an election" and hold its people's aspirations hostage to the regime's greed and paranoia. What was that that happened in Florida when Al Gore lost to George W. Bush. I guess it was called "chadding" and not stealing an election.God knows there is no greed in the United States of America! Obama says leaders in countries like the US and India have a RESPONSIBILITY to condemn such gross violations of human rights. How's the American hearing before the United Nations on its own Human Rights Violations going? Last I read, there was quite a list!Myanmar us having its first election in two decades; it is a small step forward towards democracy.What is your excuse, Obama, for the Human Rights, civil rights, degradation in the Uniuted States of America?Obama says India, a Myanmar neighbour, has often avoided speaking out on these issues. But he says doing so is not interfering in the affairs of other countries, but a way of staying true to democratic principles. Mon 08 Nov 2010 13:28:02 GMT+1 Black_And_Proud Maybe. Mon 08 Nov 2010 13:23:38 GMT+1 Seqenenre Maybe a better question would be "Will England ever achieve democracy?" Mon 08 Nov 2010 13:17:49 GMT+1 KingLeeRoySandersJr I wish for all democracy but it doesn't exist Burma or anywhere. Today democracy is like putting icing on a bagel. You can eat it, it might be sweet but it still doesn't make it a donut, it's still a bagel.I just wonder how long the people are going to lie to themselves and to each other and see it as it is. Instead of being zombies told over and over and over again something is something when it is nothing.Peer pressure and wishful thinking matter to nothing without real substance. The id can be very easily satisfied just like the hypnotized subject can with all faith eat air, and call it cake. Mon 08 Nov 2010 12:06:43 GMT+1 Martin Swift What Burma has done is simply what the Old Communist Bloc Countries use to do...hold Elections but under the terms of the 'Regime'...When 'Choice' is limited by those in power it is and never will be true democracy...but at least something has been started and we'll just have to wait and see if Burma moves forward or is deemed to be the same.. Mon 08 Nov 2010 11:39:43 GMT+1 Blake Sawyer A Voice-Having been raised in a republic (no, not Roman, I am not quite that old) I do not understand why with a secret ballot citizens of any country would boycott and election. What purpose does it serve to hide heads in the sand so that no one will know the citizenry's opinion?At least votes will tell the international community what people want even if what they want is not possible at this time. If the Junta allows the results of the election to be reported.If the true will of the people cannot be served by the candidates allowed to run, just write "None of the above" on the ballot. Maybe the Junta will even allow those numbers to be reported.... Mon 08 Nov 2010 11:34:42 GMT+1 Muddy Waters the 2nd We criticise other nations for their corrupt regimes, but whats the benchmark. Britain is one of the most corrupt nations on earth, it's rotten to the core and only held together by a passive, couldn't be bothered to change it population. Mon 08 Nov 2010 10:58:42 GMT+1 toqueville Why on earth would Burma want democracy? So that their politicians can sell themselves and their natural resources to US multinationals? So that their morals can be undermined by western media & sex tourism? The UK version of demockery doesn't seem to have done us much good. Before we introduced universal suffrage we were involved in running a third of the globe; our science, technology, literature and philosophy led the world. Now we are a satrapy of the US, occupied by their military, unable to do anything without their approval & cringing for scraps from their table. Great advert. Mon 08 Nov 2010 10:58:07 GMT+1 Ujjwal Acharya When the independent media and observers are kept out of an election, then it's clear that the election is not going to be free and fair one. This election is like a trial without a judge.On a brighter note, this election has however attracted the world's attention towards Burma and when a nation like Burma is suffering, even the world attention towards it means a lot. And, also this election may have initiated a little talks within Burma and that's good. Mon 08 Nov 2010 10:56:51 GMT+1 Neil Probert A military junta responsible for growing and exporting large quantities of opium should be a target for America-led 'democratic change', surely? Mon 08 Nov 2010 10:24:49 GMT+1 Confuciousfred Not a chance, we don't have democracy and freedom of speech in the UK! Mon 08 Nov 2010 09:30:54 GMT+1 W Fletcher Votes are being counted in Burma in its first general election for two decades. Can the election be free and fair?I hope the UK government isn't bleating about the Burmese election - give their TREASON in signing away the future of the UK - and not even having the guts to allow us peasants a vote! Mon 08 Nov 2010 09:26:54 GMT+1 ciconia Regardless of our opinion of Burma politics, it is a matter for them, not us. It does seem unlikely that what we would call democracy will arise from the elections, but this is also the case in many other countries- Saudi Arabia or China, anybody?We need to stop wringing our hands about other nations human rights and politics, and do two things:One- vigorously defend our own democracy and roll back the encroachments and corruption of the last 10-12 years, and the postal vote scam.Two- keep talking to, not at, all the nations we sniff at. It is the only way to influence them.We have had universal voting rights for only decades, and have already allowed the system to decay and be corrupted. Selectively preaching about other nations is hypocrisy. Mon 08 Nov 2010 09:23:09 GMT+1 No Victim No Crime In short NO but then we don't have democracy in this country so really we have no right to comment. Mon 08 Nov 2010 09:22:01 GMT+1 john Can Burma achieve democracy. Not if China continues to put self interest before people, environement and human rights. Mon 08 Nov 2010 08:50:48 GMT+1 Buttle Obama has plenty to say about the sham democracy in Burma. Mr President Hussein Obama never condemns the tyrannies in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran. Instead he wants to "engage". A double standard or just the usual dhimmi silence in deference to the so called religion of peace. Mon 08 Nov 2010 08:36:45 GMT+1 PhotoTCL Media organizations like the BBC should research and post the names of the global corporations that do business in Burma and enable the Generals to retain their power. Then the public would be better informed and not distracted by online "discussions" about "democracy" that miss the point: corporate investment abroad (from UK and US, etc) that supports tyrannical dictatorships like the one in Burma. I rarely, if ever, see such information in American or international newspapers or websites. With such information, the public could then refuse to support those corporations (or buy their products), the Generals will lose corporate support/assistance (because when enough people boycott, companies give in), and then the people of Burma can receive the democratic power that is rightfully theirs. Without bloodshed. Mon 08 Nov 2010 07:44:32 GMT+1 plegouais Here in Mae Sot, just over the border in Thailand (a town full of Burmese and Karen refugees - or "illegal migrants" if they aren't lucky enough to have been interned in a refugee camp) rumour is rife. We have had confirmed reports of a mortar landing on the Thai side of the border and the migrant school at which I teach has been closed on the advice of Thai military intelligence as it seems that the schools (a central part of the migrant community) may be being deliberately targeted (not necessarily by the Burmese government). The area is one of those considered "too dangerous" to for the elections to take place. A new wave of violence (that we have all been expecting) appears to be coming to fruition. As always it is the innocent people who will pay in blood and misery. Unfortunately the Burmese government couldn't give a monkeys as long as they are still able to line their pockets. At least it’s in the news and maybe there will be just a little more pressure on the western businesses who trade with them...(Total, Chevron, Alcatel-Lucent, Hannover RE... to pick a couple from a recent BBC article on the matter) Mon 08 Nov 2010 07:13:59 GMT+1 Ali Haider Kazmi Can't imagine any elections being any more farce than the "elections" the West just conducted in Afghanistan. Mon 08 Nov 2010 06:58:33 GMT+1 SnoddersB It is strange how Western Politicians will be first to critisise third world governments but will not allow their populations a say in important issues. What is democracy? To me it would have been having a say before Brown signed our country away. I doubt that the Burmese wil have what our politicians think of a democracy for years, just as Zimbabwe does not have democracy, but pot and black com to mind when western politicians start to spout about the running of other countries. Mon 08 Nov 2010 06:58:12 GMT+1 Nizam Yagoub plaintruth wrote:How do we define democracy? There is no or very little democracy in so many third-world so called democratic countries. Does any body care? No. Democracy in Burma would be our wildest dream. I gather, democracy is defined nowadays as towing the west's lineEgypt has a democracy that is very similar to Burma's that imprison opponents and go even further; they are inheriting tehe presidnency nowadays to Gamal Mubarak.Israel is a completely different story; they have expelled half of the (non Jewish) population and they require people to swear Israel as a Jewish state before becoming residents. They are accespted as a true democracy model even though it is as close to South Africa's Apartheid regime as anything can get.If the US is happy with you then; your form of democracy is acceptible and of course; Uncle Sam is not happy unless Israel is Mon 08 Nov 2010 06:38:41 GMT+1 chrislabiff Can Burma achieve democracy?Can we? Mon 08 Nov 2010 06:36:39 GMT+1 Sjeh76 It would seem not, sadly. Mon 08 Nov 2010 06:29:57 GMT+1 dothemaths "86. At 00:37am on 08 Nov 2010, SimpleOldSailor wrote:What hope is there for Burma, the powerful elements in the world don't really care for Burma just as they don't care for anybody in Somalia, Zimbabwe, Pakistan, Sudan, Gaza, Central Africa, and numerous other areas where people with the lowest standards of living in the world are robbed of what little they do have and are "lucky" to be left alive. Meanwhile the rich nations sell their persecutors arms, purloin their territories natural resources on the cheap and take their holidays in tropical tax-free paradise islands far from the madding crowd.Now if there was a plentiful supply of oil in Burma it might just turn a few heads................"Simple: do some simple research. Burma is loaded with natural gas and oil, that's why China is building a pipeline, that's why India is in there too , that's why Total Oil (French, there is a fuel station selling their tainted product near you) give the Burmese junta about half a billion a year, flies their families on expenses paid shopping trips to Paris, funds good school and university places in France for their pampered children........ Mon 08 Nov 2010 04:49:46 GMT+1 Mark Bretherton It's interesting to consider why the Burmese military plutocracy wants to be seen to be engaging in democratic elections.Is pressure for democracy truly mounting to the point where it cannot be ignored from within Burma or from external pressure? Perhaps the junta is simply poking fun at its own people and the rest of the world by staging such a mockery of an election.Democracy may be inevitable in Burma if pressure is mounting but it will come at a bloody cost no doubt. Mon 08 Nov 2010 04:38:16 GMT+1 Bella Liberty SAME WINE DIFFERENT LABEL A country or a nation can dance with milk and honey only when it depending on its first constitution and independent flag. Changing the country's name and its first constitution or the national flag would be heading to the worst.So whether the election was fair and square or unfair the country will be heading to the worst, most probably the military inner conflicts may occur or the country would be heading to the civil war within 8 years from December 2010. Mon 08 Nov 2010 04:34:25 GMT+1 Donna #1.plaintruth wrote:How do we define democracy? ...Democracy in Burma would be our wildest dream. ----The "wrong" dreamer, I say. The most important essence in democracy is the concerned people's will, you can't dream for them. Mon 08 Nov 2010 04:27:46 GMT+1 thomaswang Burma will never achieve democracy as long as the military rulers are in control. And they have been in power chiefly because western powers have never seen Burma as important enough to do anything about it. But chief blame must lie on ASEAN, who have been mollycoddling this military dictatorship for too long. Mon 08 Nov 2010 04:18:57 GMT+1 Kaliyug When the military is in charge there cannot be any democracy. The military by its very presence is known for a structure that is not democratic, ranks and experience matter and are highly enforced. This time Burma had one candidate with one voting symbol and distributed it to everyone to vote. Democracy itself is not what the trading partners want, especially big oil business, they rather deal with one single person or group than have a democratic procedure. The truth of the business of democracy is very Western, it works well in the Western model but seldom works where people are illiterate. Mon 08 Nov 2010 02:49:21 GMT+1 Aziz Merchant Burma's general elections are only for military generals. It is a mock show as people go through the motions. With opposition not contesting, it is a mockery of democracy. God help Burma! Mon 08 Nov 2010 02:25:07 GMT+1 Tarjei I dont usually comment, but this election is so obviously a fraud, and a fraud that perpetuates the quite frankly outrageous abuse of the Burmese population in general (i.e. not only ethnic minorities, which are particularly badly abused, but also the general population which could enjoy a free, and realistically quite prosperous life if it wasnt for the military narco-barons that are stealing their futures) that no-one with a relatively familiar insight into the issues at stake could be content with the situation. In fact, I wish these greedy generals could be arrested and sentenced to life (possibly without parole) as they deserve. And that, after all, would be a far more lenient punishment than these people give to their any of "their" citizens that happen to get in the way of their criminal enterprises. The cynical complicity of countries like China also shouldnt be forgotten here. As long as countries like China continue to support countries like Burma and North Korea, how can they expect to be considered a part of the "responsible international community"? Mon 08 Nov 2010 02:16:14 GMT+1 Ali Haider Kazmi seasand123 wrote:Without the key opposition personalities such as Madam Aung San Suu Kyi and others not contesting in this general election, in the eyes of the world, it can never be a credible one.________________________________________________________________________There you go again, referring to the West as the World. You have murdered enough democratically elected leaders in Iran, Congo and South America that your claim of supporting democracy has no credibility in the eyes of the world. Mon 08 Nov 2010 02:05:09 GMT+1 Alastore The question is what would be happenning next even if they "achieve democrasy"? For example, would the populist Aung San Suu kyi be able to handle the ethnic minorities? The abysmal chaos in Iraq has already proved the fultility of shaping a country/nation according to some sort of "idea" model from an outsider's perspective.At the end of the day, Burmese will be served the best by whoever brings in trades and employments. Regime change and the potential endless political in-fighting as a result are hardly what they really need. Mon 08 Nov 2010 02:02:01 GMT+1 tuulen "What will the Burma elections achieve? Can the vote have any credibility? Will Burma see true democracy?" - BBCSuch a range of questions!Apparently there has been no vote in Burma during the past two decades, but this vote did occur. Given that history, it seems unlikely that this vote could solve all problems, but this vote is a positive beginning, something to build progress upon, and perhaps other votes in the future could achieve better results. Anyway, it now appears that Burma is off to a good start, and let us hope that such good fortune continues. Mon 08 Nov 2010 01:55:43 GMT+1 Ali Haider Kazmi Pancha Chandra wrote:Aung Sung Su Kyi is most certainly the 'Joan of Ark' of Myanmar! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++May be so, but do the Myanmar people care about the 'Joan of Ark'. I don't think Obama would like to be called the 'Che Guvera' of his country. Mon 08 Nov 2010 01:55:35 GMT+1 Ali Haider Kazmi As a country that is only half a republic, I can say no country can be more democratic than it is a republic. I think the Myanmar army is still struggling to make Myanmar a republic, as just like Pakistan, colonialists never quite left Myanmar.The price for any small third-world leader getting good press in the West is basically treason. Suu Kyi is a tool of the colonialists. I don't know what really goes on in Myanmar and I can't say if the election was free and fair or not. I do know the Western media has no inhibition against lying and no love for democracy. There are extremists right on this forum who can call Putin a dictator who secured over 80% of the votes or Hams that secured over 85% of the vote in an election held under the barrel of Western guns. Mon 08 Nov 2010 01:46:20 GMT+1 Andy 73. At 8:13pm on 07 Nov 2010, Reiver wrote:Even the British people are denied their democratic rights so what chance has Burma? ----------------------------------------------------------Yes, remember the last election when Brown lost but decided to remain in power, oh wait that never happened as he's no longer MP. We have local, National and even European election in the UK, what else are we missing, intergalactic? Hell, each year we even get to vote on how is going to be the next one hit wonder, who is going to be evicted, who can or cannot dance on ice or in a ballroom. I know what it is, you don't think we have democracy because you want to be able to vote for who will become Alan's new apprentice, ohhhhh! it's like the Nazi won the war. Mon 08 Nov 2010 01:39:10 GMT+1 Dr M Seshagiri Rao Burma is a closed country. Before WWII, it was multiracial with a large expatriate population of Whites, Chinese and Indians and they were all thrown out starting 1962. The regime does not and can not control the whole country. There is absolutely no development of any kind. Aung San Suukyi is getting old and we can not say today what is the alternative. Let us hope that some Phoenix will rise some day. Mon 08 Nov 2010 01:23:00 GMT+1 KarenZ I hope that it is freer and fairer than here! Mon 08 Nov 2010 01:04:32 GMT+1 Gary Roberts No government where the military equals the government can tolerate free and open elections. This, unfortunately, is the case in Myanmar. And in NKorea. Brothers in blood and repression.A test: are they willing to have independent observers in? Mon 08 Nov 2010 00:55:02 GMT+1 SimpleOldSailor What hope is there for Burma, the powerful elements in the world don't really care for Burma just as they don't care for anybody in Somalia, Zimbabwe, Pakistan, Sudan, Gaza, Central Africa, and numerous other areas where people with the lowest standards of living in the world are robbed of what little they do have and are "lucky" to be left alive. Meanwhile the rich nations sell their persecutors arms, purloin their territories natural resources on the cheap and take their holidays in tropical tax-free paradise islands far from the madding crowd.Now if there was a plentiful supply of oil in Burma it might just turn a few heads................ Mon 08 Nov 2010 00:37:30 GMT+1 ady Can Britain achieve Democracy?Today, for the first time in well over 35 years, the British people were permitted by the ruling Liberal junta to vote on whether they wished to remain in the European union.Observers say it will be a close vote with both camps evenly matched. Sun 07 Nov 2010 23:45:52 GMT+1 ashni behal of course they will not.but the west has to realise that no one cares about the western worlds opinon--the west rejects the election--so what--they say the hell with the west and so does the rest of the world.if the west wants to have influence in the world--ECONOMY IMPROVE--the asians in particular the chinese and indians will soon control opinons and moe--so we in the west better get used to playing second(or third) fiddle Sun 07 Nov 2010 23:36:44 GMT+1