Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html en-gb 30 Mon 03 Aug 2015 04:03:27 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html wildzaheena http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=99#comment598 what dose it matter how we say a word, how our accent sounds, what a load of rubbish, why waste your time!!! Sun 31 Oct 2010 11:15:38 GMT+1 chrislabiff http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=99#comment597 Stuart Wilson wrote:"One good example (I think) is the word "invalid" which has two different meanings depending on whether the first or second syllable is stressed. "I always thought that one an elitist Freudian slip! What was that about Disability benefits?! Sun 31 Oct 2010 10:00:52 GMT+1 James Daly http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=99#comment596 595. At 08:04am on 31 Oct 2010, SlaneyD wrote:There is no 'H' in 'Aitch' - it's as simple as that!--------------Probably the most succinct - and correct - explanation so far.Thank you. Sun 31 Oct 2010 08:14:25 GMT+1 James Daly http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=99#comment595 593. At 07:48am on 31 Oct 2010, tailspin wrote:just don't go too "American" for all our sakes------------I agree, although I must point out that double quotation marks are themselves an Americanism. British usage dictates single marks, with the double variety only being used for a quote within a quote.Americanisms make me wince too. I think the most commonly (mis)used one, of the many we see on these boards, is 'license' as in TV licence. I'm not sure why people do this. Maybe it's just ignorance, or maybe some people simply don't know the difference between a noun and a verb. Sun 31 Oct 2010 08:12:56 GMT+1 SlaneyD http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=99#comment594 There is no 'H' in 'Aitch' - it's as simple as that! Sun 31 Oct 2010 08:04:41 GMT+1 FlashMagski http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=98#comment593 What really upsets me is how the English language is being eroded, mainly because of the ridiculous text spelling, for short cuts "no wot i meen,do u" God it makes me sick........speak and write in the language of the country!!!! Sun 31 Oct 2010 08:03:18 GMT+1 tailspin http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=98#comment592 just don't go too "American" for all our sakes Sun 31 Oct 2010 07:48:00 GMT+1 James Daly http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=98#comment591 591. At 06:02am on 31 Oct 2010, derek1958 wrote:John Daly- Maybe the hyphen is not used as much as it was but that doesn't mean I didn't use it correctly. It is often used to seperate a prefix and make words easier to read. Mis-spell ans mis-use are easier to read than misspell ans misuse.--------------No, it is just plain wrong. Don't take my word for it, just refer to the 'bible' of correct usage: Fowler's Modern English Usage (p.497 in the 1995 ed.) which confirms this.PS. 'separate' is spelt thus, not 'seperate'. Sun 31 Oct 2010 06:48:34 GMT+1 derek1958 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=98#comment590 John Daly- Maybe the hyphen is not used as much as it was but that doesn't mean I didn't use it correctly. It is often used to seperate a prefix and make words easier to read. Mis-spell ans mis-use are easier to read than misspell ans misuse. Sun 31 Oct 2010 06:02:32 GMT+1 dudevandude http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=98#comment589 What about the letter R people have a problem saying that letter properly as well."The wota in majoka dont taste like it oughta"?this is from the heart of saying things properly lol Sun 31 Oct 2010 03:55:48 GMT+1 Tanglewood http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=98#comment588 557. At 10:27pm on 29 Oct 2010, Planet Mars wrote:I rather [sic] use the proper English than the stupid Americanised version. Your language is so embarrassing. Some examples:- 'vacation' instead of holiday (cringeworthy). The American usage is based on the English as it was spoken up to the 18th century, in which "holiday" was a contraction of "holy day". Americans use the term (often "the holidays") to refer to the Christmas period, and "vacation" to refer specifically to time off work at other times.Americanisms is not something we should be striving to emulate in any way, shape or form. We should be ourselves. And the only time I'd use Americanisms is if I was visiting the states (perish the thought of even stepping foot there).LOL ... so you're criticizing America and Americans yet you've never been there? Your view of the USA and its people is about as distorted as that of Americans whose views of the UK are based on TV reruns of "Upstairs Downstairs" :-) Sun 31 Oct 2010 03:37:59 GMT+1 Tanglewood http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=97#comment587 534. At 5:37pm on 29 Oct 2010, Planet Mars wrote:The change in the use of language is due to those stupid Americanisms. If I were government of this country, if anyone dared to say an Americanism the penalty would be taking away their tongue.Americans have butchered the language we gave them, and they're ungrateful and unapologetic about it. They're arrogant.Another reason not to like the corrupt USA.Oh dear ... you do realize, don't you, that since American and British English began to diverge in the 18th century it is that latter that has changed more? If one of the two has "butchered" the common language, it may well be the Brits!Here's an interesting exercise - compare the post-match interviews with English footballers and US NFL players ... then tell us which group is more guilty of butchering the English language! Sun 31 Oct 2010 01:04:07 GMT+1 Ralphie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=97#comment586 I always assumed "evolution" was, in part at least, synonymous with "improvement". I was wrong, apparently. Sun 31 Oct 2010 00:16:50 GMT+1 AntKnee http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=97#comment585 Like anything else the golden mean has to be found.In this case between snobbery, dumbing down and being being stuck in the past.Our descent into using George Orwell's Newspeak, and the use of the word 'Haitch' both grind on me.However most importantly, we should do whatever we can to communicate fully. Sat 30 Oct 2010 23:34:03 GMT+1 James Daly http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=97#comment584 What is your point? Sat 30 Oct 2010 23:23:21 GMT+1 ruffled_feathers http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=97#comment583 580. At 7:50pm on 30 Oct 2010, James Daly wrote:578. At 7:04pm on 30 Oct 2010, th3_0r4cl3 wrote:"Remember now children:F is for Frog.G is for Goat.H is for 'orse.I is for Iguana.The pronounciation of a letter should correspond with the words it goes with! If you want to abbreviate, go right ahead, but in my education I was sure well taught to speak from my lungs through to my throat and not from the back of my mouth. What happens when we say the letter like this? We produce a 'huh' sound, as in haitch.H is for Heinous History Hautilly Harks Hieroglyphics. Try saying that as 'aitch"-----------------------------------------I agree completely with the above,Hello not elloHurry not urryHelp not elpHaitch Not aitchHave not ave'But H is spelt 'aitch', so your argument falls down somewhat.JD===========================================So what do you do with W, R, S, Y, L, F, M, N? Sat 30 Oct 2010 22:11:47 GMT+1 utopianinveterate http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=97#comment582 Funny that the British care more about pronunciation than grammar or the choice of the right word. Is it a way to perpetuate the class system? It's like you don't have to be educated to be one of them toffs, but you have to speak proper and stuff like that, you know. See what I mean? Sat 30 Oct 2010 20:04:40 GMT+1 Ralphie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=96#comment581 579. At 7:37pm on 30 Oct 2010, its_dave_here wrote:Yes, but have you ever noticed that whenever you get an Englishman doing an impression of a WW2 German Soldier (got to watch how I word that, damn pc thugs!)that they can always pronounce the word 'achtung' correctly...///Could you please tell me where the pc thugs live please? Been looking for them for ages, but they seem to be more elusive than Bin Laden. Last I heard is that they live in the German town of Verfolgungswahnsinn, but it doesn't appear in any atlas... Sat 30 Oct 2010 19:59:47 GMT+1 Johns the Man http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=96#comment580 The British Library is asking the public to help it track how pronunciation is shifting in Britain. What changes have you noticed?Volunteers are being asked to record a chapter from a Mr Man book to see how certain words and accents are changing.The library says youngsters are now more likely to say "haitch" than "aitch" when pronouncing the letter H.During my last two years at a senior school, and at college - far more years ago than I am prepared to say here............ - My English teacher clearly had a 'bee in his bonnet' about pronouncing the letter 'H', it always had to be 'haitch', "It's had, boy, had, not 'ad" was his favourite quote, so I have always promounced it as 'haitch', but it is clearly one of these pronunciations that polarises opinion, I used to get quite annoyed (silently) when my sone pronounced it as 'aitch' and not 'haitch'.But it is interesting - and quite saddening - just how the English language - which is such a descriptive and lovely language, is slowly being denigrated by 'text' speech and the 'know what I mean' and the 'yeah, innit' brigade, but then I'm just an old retired dinosaur. Sat 30 Oct 2010 18:54:25 GMT+1 James Daly http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=96#comment579 578. At 7:04pm on 30 Oct 2010, th3_0r4cl3 wrote:"Remember now children:F is for Frog.G is for Goat.H is for 'orse.I is for Iguana.The pronounciation of a letter should correspond with the words it goes with! If you want to abbreviate, go right ahead, but in my education I was sure well taught to speak from my lungs through to my throat and not from the back of my mouth. What happens when we say the letter like this? We produce a 'huh' sound, as in haitch.H is for Heinous History Hautilly Harks Hieroglyphics. Try saying that as 'aitch"-----------------------------------------I agree completely with the above,Hello not elloHurry not urryHelp not elpHaitch Not aitchHave not ave'But H is spelt 'aitch', so your argument falls down somewhat.JD Sat 30 Oct 2010 18:50:50 GMT+1 itsdavehere http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=96#comment578 I can tell you more and more Scots are saying 'lock' instead of 'loch'.When you quiz them about it, they'll deny it, but you can clearly hear it.You can hear this with the other names and words containing 'ch' which should be pronounced the same as 'loch'.For instance, for Lochwinnoch in North Ayrshire people will say 'lockwinnock'.Basically, it's just laziness, although there is also the element of a very English-centric media, which itself is becoming rather Americanised.I know it's off-topic, b-------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes, but have you ever noticed that whenever you get an Englishman doing an impression of a WW2 German Soldier (got to watch how I word that, damn pc thugs!)that they can always pronounce the word 'achtung' correctly... Sat 30 Oct 2010 18:37:13 GMT+1 th3_0r4cl3 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=96#comment577 "Remember now children:F is for Frog.G is for Goat.H is for 'orse.I is for Iguana.The pronounciation of a letter should correspond with the words it goes with! If you want to abbreviate, go right ahead, but in my education I was sure well taught to speak from my lungs through to my throat and not from the back of my mouth. What happens when we say the letter like this? We produce a 'huh' sound, as in haitch.H is for Heinous History Hautilly Harks Hieroglyphics. Try saying that as 'aitch"-----------------------------------------I agree completely with the above,Hello not elloHurry not urryHelp not elpHaitch Not aitchHave not aveI can not believe that people who choose to enunciate incorrectly are attempting to dictate to others how to do the same. It is a Southern thing i suppose as with most of these silliness's.Come on BBC Speak proper English, the usage of incorrect pronunciation is down to the fact that you employ far too many southerners with dodgy accents and incorrect ways of pronouncing words.now repeat Have a hairy hippo hopping home, Huh Huh Haitch Sat 30 Oct 2010 18:04:33 GMT+1 Fuzzgin http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=96#comment576 Either, it's really irrelevant. Since no other letter in the English alphabet has a spelling, why should it? Sat 30 Oct 2010 17:30:43 GMT+1 lizanka http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=95#comment575 aitch is definitely the correct pronunciation. Sat 30 Oct 2010 16:36:55 GMT+1 makar - thread killer http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=95#comment574 Speaking, reading and writing is an evolving art form. Let's keep it that way and resist the temptation to sciencify and mathsify it. I'm glad that the British Library appear to agree with these sentiments. Sat 30 Oct 2010 14:55:49 GMT+1 matt-stone http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=95#comment573 In a certain part of the country, an haitch is a baggy shorts worn in the summer often with floral prints on them and they looked quite fashionable back in the seventies when they were all the rage !!So, last summer when a football team from that part of England visited West Ham, a few lads thought it would a good idea to wear floral haitches to the ground at Upton Park. But when they arrived at the gate, the lads were surprised to see a NOTICE which says:..."please, drop your haitches,..we are Cockneys !!....THE POOR LADS were all arrested for exposing themselves in public !! Sat 30 Oct 2010 12:19:22 GMT+1 James Daly http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=95#comment572 derek1958 wrote:'Pronunciation is relative to the regional dialects of the speakers so differs immensely.My pet hate is the mis-spelling and incorrect use of punctuation. I hate to see apostrophes mis-used or missing.'But clearly not the incorrect use of the hyphen?JD Sat 30 Oct 2010 11:44:43 GMT+1 derek1958 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=95#comment571 Pronunciation is relative to the regional dialects of the speakers so differs immensely.My pet hate is the mis-spelling and incorrect use of punctuation. I hate to see apostrophes mis-used or missing. Sat 30 Oct 2010 10:45:05 GMT+1 Ralphie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=95#comment570 11. At 10:26am on 28 Oct 2010, JohnnyMo wrote:One of the other words on Today Program was kilometre, when talking distance I normally say kilo-metre, (old fashioned) but speed (kph) kil-om-etre (new way). Does anyone else say the same word differently in different contexts. ////I don't have that problem - I say "mile". Sat 30 Oct 2010 09:44:23 GMT+1 Ralphie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=94#comment569 569. At 09:09am on 30 Oct 2010, MellorSJ wrote:Nothing "politically incorrect" about calling the Labour front bench idiots, Dada. I'd say it was self-evident to all but those without frontal lobes.Please do try harder.///You're funny, like a puppy chasing its own tail. Sat 30 Oct 2010 09:43:02 GMT+1 MellorSJ http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=94#comment568 Nothing "politically incorrect" about calling the Labour front bench idiots, Dada. I'd say it was self-evident to all but those without frontal lobes.Please do try harder. Sat 30 Oct 2010 08:09:00 GMT+1 Ralphie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=94#comment567 I don't have any problem with American English. Withouth it, there wouldn't be a Kerouac, Mailer, Twain etc, or the lyrics of Dylan, Springsteen, 50 Cent or Eminem. What I don't like is e.g. mixing English English with US English to the point where the former disappears. But it can't be stopped I guess. Sat 30 Oct 2010 08:04:06 GMT+1 Ralphie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=94#comment566 566. At 05:37am on 30 Oct 2010, MellorSJ wrote:Dada wrote: "There's a number of people in this country who seem to take pride in sounding like an idiot"You mean like the Labour front bench who always want a deba' about something that's undebateable?///No, I mean people who seem to take pride in sounding like an idiot, for example by pretending not to understand what someone else is saying and clumsily turning it into something they believe is really clever but really only confirms what that someone else is saying. Sat 30 Oct 2010 07:58:46 GMT+1 MellorSJ http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=94#comment565 Dada wrote: "There's a number of people in this country who seem to take pride in sounding like an idiot"You mean like the Labour front bench who always want a deba' about something that's undebateable? Sat 30 Oct 2010 04:37:19 GMT+1 Ralphie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=94#comment564 562. At 00:09am on 30 Oct 2010, DizzynotDitzy wrote:I say aitch and I teach my kids to say aitch too, as do their schools. If that is how it is taught in UK schools, then that is how it is said.What annoys me, and it is a trend that is increasing, is how food programme presenters affect an accent when pronouncing ingredients or recipes that are not native to these shores. It's embarrassing and uncalled for. I'm sure that over-seas food programmes do not affect a British accent when cooking a recipe from the UK and announcing the names. In my head it would probably be a mockney accent for England and some thing equally offensive for Scotland, Wales and NI.Do pass this on to the BBC food show hosts.Evolution of language is one thing, sounding like an idiot (and offensive) is another.///There's a number of people in this country who seem to take pride in sounding like an idiot, or indeed coming across as one. I think they do it because they are deliberately trying to be politically incorrect, which is fair enough, but it needs to be done intelligently and that probably is where the oxymoron comes into it. Sat 30 Oct 2010 00:03:55 GMT+1 Grim Reaper http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=93#comment563 Yes, all language evolves.But haitch to mean the letter H well thats just ignorance. Fri 29 Oct 2010 23:46:20 GMT+1 Ralphie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=93#comment562 @ Planet Mars: you are doing the English language in general, whether spoken by Americans, Brits, Australians etc., a disservice. On HYS, you are what Robert Green was to England in the World Cup game against the US. Fri 29 Oct 2010 23:24:50 GMT+1 DizzynotDitzy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=93#comment561 I say aitch and I teach my kids to say aitch too, as do their schools. If that is how it is taught in UK schools, then that is how it is said.What annoys me, and it is a trend that is increasing, is how food programme presenters affect an accent when pronouncing ingredients or recipes that are not native to these shores. It's embarrassing and uncalled for. I'm sure that over-seas food programmes do not affect a British accent when cooking a recipe from the UK and announcing the names. In my head it would probably be a mockney accent for England and some thing equally offensive for Scotland, Wales and NI.Do pass this on to the BBC food show hosts.Evolution of language is one thing, sounding like an idiot (and offensive) is another. Fri 29 Oct 2010 23:09:36 GMT+1 Brooks http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=93#comment560 557. At 10:27pm on 29 Oct 2010, Planet Mars wrote:"I rather wishe (sic) you Americans would stop acting like petulent (sic) children and learn to accept the language you was given."was"?This is hilarious, considering it comes as part of a rambling and insult-laden post directed at Americans for - wait for it - 'idiotic speech and spelling'. The best part is the demand for 'respect.' Perhaps you should put off the sneering until you solve your own spelling and grammar problems. Fri 29 Oct 2010 22:40:51 GMT+1 Ralphie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=93#comment559 And it's "no control OF the language you created". Tut tut. Fri 29 Oct 2010 22:02:42 GMT+1 SpacePirateFTW http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=93#comment558 557. At 10:27pm on 29 Oct 2010, Planet Mars wrote:1. No one in the UK says 'aitch' (seriously, what idiot would want to say this anyway?)2. Who's whining? Only you for taking these criticisms of America (or what you stupidly call 'anti-americanism' because you think you're excempt from criticism for some reason) to heart.3. I rather use the proper English than the stupid Americanised version. Your language is so embarrassing. Some examples:- '24/7' instead of '24 hours a day'. - 'Guys' instead of 'blokes/geezers' etc. - 'Hey dude' instead of 'Alright, mate'. - People are now going to 'stores' instead of the 'shops'. - 'vacation' instead of holiday (cringeworthy). - children think they're wearing 'sneekers' when in fact it's 'trainers'.- 'Bangs' instead of 'fringe'.You Americans are a bad influence. Americanisms is a consequence of too much American media being shown here, and its dismal effect it's having on our society. I rather wishe you stopped being such stubborn petulent children and learn to accept the language you was given. American stubbornness is another annoying trait.I rather stick to speaking British English and try not to use any kind of Americanism because I just don't think it sounds right, and quite frankly it sounds dumb. I avoid Americanisms like the plague - because they are.Also, if you consider the amount of American films/television productions shown here, it's amazing how easily we can pick up Americanisms but over there, I've heard some Americans saying they need subtitles when listening to British people speak (unless you're one of the intelligent good Americans like our Brenda Lee)...for example, on the BBC Planet Earth series, instead of Attenborough they listen to Sigourney Weaver. Yes, Ellen Ripley. Shows how arrogant and insular you are in needing to have everything adjusted just so that the likes of YOU can understand it. How truly arrogant indeed.Americanisms is not something we should be striving to emulate in any way, shape or form. We should be ourselves. And the only time I'd use Americanisms is if I was visiting the states (perish the thought of even stepping foot there).Is anyone else getting sick of the increasing use of Americanisms in the UK? Your language came from us, so show some respect. You Americans treat your parent nation really bad. Uou Americans are incapable of respect, which is why the world looks down on you and awaits the day you cease to become a superpower.I will stick to my O's and S's in spellings too. American spellings and speech look idiotic and I wouldn't ever want to reduce myself to their level.------------------------------------------I desperately want to believe you're being facetious, but I suspect you're not. In that case I'll only say that your inability to grasp the basics of your own language is not helping your argument at all. If you're going to go on about the idiocy of American English, perhaps ensure you're using the parent language properly? Fri 29 Oct 2010 22:01:39 GMT+1 Ralphie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=92#comment557 Do you say 'aitch' or 'haitch'?As long as people understand you does it matter?In 14th century England accents were so diverse that people from London had great difficulty understanding people from Kent.Its only since the advent of national media, both radio & television that pronunciation has become as homogenised as it is today.If you go Holland, Germany or Belgium you can hear young people speaking English in exactly the same 'MTV Europe' accent.For the first time in history, pronuniciation is gradually becoming truly universal.So tell me again why it matters if you say 'aitch or haitch' at this point in the early 21st century?////Re-read your own post. The typos and misspellings, as well as the final question whether "aitch or haitch" matters, highlight the laziness and ignorance that is permeating a nation of inarticulate and illiterate native English speakers. In a global market where English is the leading language and foreigners have been educated to a level where they speak with dodgy accents but immaculate grammar, coming across as an uneducated oaf with no control the language you created is commercial stupidity. And it's "it's", not "its". Fri 29 Oct 2010 21:43:02 GMT+1 bounce bounce bounce http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=92#comment556 554. At 9:09pm on 29 Oct 2010, SpacePirateFTW wrote:Once again every topic somehow seems to end up in a "those stupid Americans" discussion. 1. No one in America says "haitch". 2. You can set your computer to recognize (Z!) US english or UK English. Most software has that functionality now. So quit your whining. 3. I'd rather use American English than say "We was at the cinema, innit. And there was this well fit bird, n' that."EVERYONE rapes the language. Get over it.--Re:1. No one in the UK says 'aitch' (seriously, what idiot would want to say this anyway?)2. Who's whining? Only you for taking these criticisms of America (or what you stupidly call 'anti-americanism' because you think you're excempt from criticism for some reason) to heart.3. I rather use the proper English than the stupid Americanised version. Your language is so embarrassing. Some examples:- '24/7' instead of '24 hours a day'. - 'Guys' instead of 'blokes/geezers' etc. - 'Hey dude' instead of 'Alright, mate'. - People are now going to 'stores' instead of the 'shops'. - 'vacation' instead of holiday (cringeworthy). - children think they're wearing 'sneekers' when in fact it's 'trainers'.- 'Bangs' instead of 'fringe'.You Americans are a bad influence. Americanisms is a consequence of too much American media being shown here, and its dismal effect it's having on our society. I rather wishe you stopped being such stubborn petulent children and learn to accept the language you was given. American stubbornness is another annoying trait.I rather stick to speaking British English and try not to use any kind of Americanism because I just don't think it sounds right, and quite frankly it sounds dumb. I avoid Americanisms like the plague - because they are.Also, if you consider the amount of American films/television productions shown here, it's amazing how easily we can pick up Americanisms but over there, I've heard some Americans saying they need subtitles when listening to British people speak (unless you're one of the intelligent good Americans like our Brenda Lee)...for example, on the BBC Planet Earth series, instead of Attenborough they listen to Sigourney Weaver. Yes, Ellen Ripley. Shows how arrogant and insular you are in needing to have everything adjusted just so that the likes of YOU can understand it. How truly arrogant indeed.Americanisms is not something we should be striving to emulate in any way, shape or form. We should be ourselves. And the only time I'd use Americanisms is if I was visiting the states (perish the thought of even stepping foot there).Is anyone else getting sick of the increasing use of Americanisms in the UK? Your language came from us, so show some respect. You Americans treat your parent nation really bad. Uou Americans are incapable of respect, which is why the world looks down on you and awaits the day you cease to become a superpower.I will stick to my O's and S's in spellings too. American spellings and speech look idiotic and I wouldn't ever want to reduce myself to their level. Fri 29 Oct 2010 21:27:12 GMT+1 Lisboeta http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=92#comment555 "H" is, and always has been, "aitch". Granted, we now accept regional accents. But that doesn't alter the correct pronunciation of words. And I agree with the other English teacher. BBC programmes are one of our learning resources. If BBC presenters are heard to pronounce words (nay, even letters of the alphabet) wrongly, it undermines everything that we are trying to teach. And I'm not being pedantic!That said, English always has been a fluid language: mutating, adopting and adapting. Nonetheless, it still has rules. Fri 29 Oct 2010 21:14:48 GMT+1 John Hartshill http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=92#comment554 What you are describing there is the change in words used to describe an object (bairn to child - although bairn is actually a Scottish term, not generally ever used in England as far as I'm aware - and wireless to radio). You also describe the silencing of letters (knife). Not the addition of a letter which was never there to begin with ("haitch" and "mis-cheevy-ous" to use two examples from this HYS).-----------------------------------------------------No, what I'm describing are changes in language of which aitch>haitch is just one example. The word bairn incidentally is of Indo-European origin and was used in England in the past. It's not a Scottish term: the word for child in Latvian is "berns" and Scandinavian languages similarly have the word "barn" today. Knife is one example of an added letter: originally spelt knif. If websites like this had been around back then there probably would have been similar wailing about the "poor spelling and grammar of today's youth" but in the end many such changes became the standard form. Fri 29 Oct 2010 20:17:36 GMT+1 SpacePirateFTW http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=92#comment553 Once again every topic somehow seems to end up in a "those stupid Americans" discussion. 1. No one in America says "haitch". 2. You can set your computer to recognize (Z!) US english or UK English. Most software has that functionality now. So quit your whining. 3. I'd rather use American English than say "We was at the cinema, innit. And there was this well fit bird, n' that."EVERYONE rapes the language. Get over it. Fri 29 Oct 2010 20:09:32 GMT+1 Ben http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=92#comment552 "552. At 8:09pm on 29 Oct 2010, John Hartshill wrote:I've taught English as a foreign language for 7 years and I say haitch with my students as that's listed in the dictionary as a perfectly acceptable pronunciation. People here are missing the point that languages evolve. Those who want to push the use of aitch "because it's always been done that way" should explain why they don't say bairn for child (it was always done that way) or pronounce the k in knife (the dropped k is a later thing.)In 60 years time the question will be moot as most people will say haitch anyway and aitch will sound as anachronistic as describing a radio device as a wireless."-------------------What you are describing there is the change in words used to describe an object (bairn to child - although bairn is actually a Scottish term, not generally ever used in England as far as I'm aware - and wireless to radio). You also describe the silencing of letters (knife). Not the addition of a letter which was never there to begin with ("haitch" and "mis-cheevy-ous" to use two examples from this HYS). Fri 29 Oct 2010 19:28:52 GMT+1 John Hartshill http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=91#comment551 I've taught English as a foreign language for 7 years and I say haitch with my students as that's listed in the dictionary as a perfectly acceptable pronunciation. People here are missing the point that languages evolve. Those who want to push the use of aitch "because it's always been done that way" should explain why they don't say bairn for child (it was always done that way) or pronounce the k in knife (the dropped k is a later thing.)In 60 years time the question will be moot as most people will say haitch anyway and aitch will sound as anachronistic as describing a radio device as a wireless. Fri 29 Oct 2010 19:09:16 GMT+1 sackofpotatoes http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=91#comment550 All the Pakistanis I know call their country "Paakistaan" with long vowel sounds, rather than "Pakkisstann" so maybe that's where the implied "r" sound comes from. The correct transcription would have a long "aa" sound, rather than a short "a"/"à" sound. I can't see how a few attempts to pronounce things the local way could possibly go amiss. In fact, it would be so much more entertaining if newsreaders would speak in the accent of the region in which they are in... As I speak a few European languages, I find it hard to Anglicise words that I had previously only known in the original language . My mouth seems to refuse to say "crwoissant", Schadenfroidah" and various others so I must come across as being a snob. Ah well. Fri 29 Oct 2010 18:24:27 GMT+1 justvisitin http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=91#comment549 It is only acceptable to use "haitch" if you are Irish or of Irish extraction. Ireland has her own language and alphabet, which while similar to English has marked differences in the sounds and pronunciation associated with characters and spellings. Therefore, an Irish interpretation of the English phonetics is acceptable in the same way as is an Irish pronunciation of "thr", tending towards "tr" and the pronunciation of "dr", tending towards "tr". It would be like trying to impose an English pronunciation on Llanelli. (can't pronounce it, so can never go there) Fri 29 Oct 2010 18:19:56 GMT+1 mildenhalljohn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=91#comment548 When you read some of the grunts, ramblings and other obscure irrelevant garbled thoughts on HYS, I think that cat, mat, etc is pushing the boundries let alone how you use the letter H Fri 29 Oct 2010 17:38:17 GMT+1 This is a colleague announcement http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=91#comment547 544. At 6:17pm on 29 Oct 2010, Barbara62 wrote:"... The use of 'axed' by a lot of immigrants instead of 'asked' drives me nuts - can't they get their tongues round the letters in that particular order??..."+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++I think the Geordies might have something to say on this... Fri 29 Oct 2010 17:31:32 GMT+1 bounce bounce bounce http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=91#comment546 This post has been Removed Fri 29 Oct 2010 17:29:00 GMT+1 This is a colleague announcement http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=90#comment545 533. At 5:20pm on 29 Oct 2010, Iapetus wrote:"...The BBC has often makes some particularly frustrating errors, such as using "refuted" to mean "denied", when it actually means "disproved"..."++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Indeed. I once remember a news report describe a burglar as having "shimmied" up a drainpipe. In cookery programmes we get the noun, "marinade" used in place of the verb "to marinate" (in a marinade)... Fri 29 Oct 2010 17:28:48 GMT+1 bounce bounce bounce http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=90#comment544 This post has been Removed Fri 29 Oct 2010 17:19:24 GMT+1 Barbara62 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=90#comment543 73. At 12:07pm on 28 Oct 2010, Bob wrote:The English language has been changed for ever due to numerous factors - incompetent teachers, immigration, laziness, americanisms, mobile phones etc......................Fantastic, spot on!!! Let's stop accepting sloppiness and instead try and persuade more people to speak correctly. The use of 'axed' by a lot of immigrants instead of 'asked' drives me nuts - can't they get their tongues round the letters in that particular order?? Fri 29 Oct 2010 17:17:39 GMT+1 Scottish Davie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=90#comment542 Oops- apologies for the accidental double post! Perhaps the moderators could delete the first one? Fri 29 Oct 2010 17:17:30 GMT+1 Scottish Davie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=90#comment541 As someone who speaks with (so I'm told) a reasonably educated Scottish accent I rejoice in the diversity of dialects and accents around the country but so often nowadays speech, in whatever accent, is simply sloppy and ungrammatical. The constant, pointless use of "like"; the use of "went" instead of "said"; the pronunciation of "ask" as "ax"; the increasing substitution of "f" for the "th" sound and many, many more examples. Probably my biggest pet hate is the insertion of letters which don't exist as in "drorring" instead of drawing. (Yes Mark Lawson, I'm pointing at you - Bark is the noise made by a dog and not a famous German composer). However intelligent the speaker may actually be, poor language gives the impression that he or she is stupid and/or badly educated which is often contrary to the truth. I also have no idea how anybody could ever expect to learn a foreign language if they can't speak their own properly. Oh, and it's definitely "aitch". Fri 29 Oct 2010 17:12:51 GMT+1 Scottish Davie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=90#comment540 This post has been Removed Fri 29 Oct 2010 17:11:51 GMT+1 Barbara62 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=89#comment539 10. At 10:23am on 28 Oct 2010, TheGrassAintGreener wrote:I say 'haitch' coz it got an 'h' in it innit?!........................................In fact no, it hasn't. The correct spelling of the name of the letter 'H' is 'aitch'. 'Haitch' is just a pathetic attempt by people who know their speech lets them down to try and bring it up to an acceptable level, notice how the chavs when in the company of people they feel inferior to make enormous efforts to upgrade their speech? This is another example and is irritating beyond belief. Why on earth should we keep dumbing down everything and saying 'this doesn't matter' and 'that doesn't matter'. Let's have some standards!! Fri 29 Oct 2010 17:11:45 GMT+1 Hekwes http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=89#comment538 Some points to consider:- There is nothing solid to determine what's correct. Most people seem to consider the older forms more correct, but you can't take this too far: does this mean we should start pronouncing 'horrible', 'humour' with no H anymore, omit the 'w' in 'backwards', 'towards', 'Ipswich'? In all these cases the letters were originally silent, and these pronunciations were reintroduced in the 1800s based on the spelling.- 'Haitch' is long-established in Ireland. (For that guy who said no linguist would condone it, I can quote a linguist here--"The letter H itself, though, is called /heːtʃ/, at least by Catholics" - John Wells, Accents of English, Vol. 2, page 432). Because of this it is the norm in Liverpool too, and I say it myself.- Don't assume that every unusual way of speaking is an Americanism. Americans glottalise their Ts much less than British people do, NO-ONE in America as far as I know says 'haitch', to clear up some misconceptions people have been having. And American pronunciation is not any less correct than the British one; it's not 'sub-standard'.- Nearly everyone pronounces glottal stops for 't' in certain environments: before a following consonant as in 'Gatwick', 'that could', and at the very end of an utterance, for instance. If they were inherently ugly you would have to complain about that too.Also: blogbuster said: "'Haitch' just sounds so 'common' to me, the people I hear saying it also say 'fink', 'fink' and 'wot'." What DO you say for 'what', then? Unless you pronounce it 'hwot', which some people do but most accents have simplified 'hw' to 'w', I don't know what other difference there could be in people's pronunciations.Anyway, I don't get what gets people so worked up about all of this! Why does it bother you so much when someone drops a H, or pronounces on in the wrong place, or replaces 'th' with 'f' or 'v'? That's just how they speak; often it's based on where they were brought up, and it's part of the way they express an identity as someone from that area. As long as you can still understand them, what does it matter? It doesn't even matter if homophones are created--e.g. some American accents make 'pen' and 'pin' sound identical. Usually you can disambiguate homophones due to contact, but with these particular words you often can't. But that doesn't mean communication breaks down and the world ends, instead they just say 'ink pen', 'sharp pin', or similar.A hundred years ago, if you travelled a few counties away, it could get rather hard to understand people there--listen to some of the recordings at http://sounds.bl.uk/Browse.aspx?collection=Survey-of-English-dialects for example. Nowadays, those dialects have rapidly disappeared, and seem set to be extinct by the start of the next century at least. English is rapidly converging and becoming less diverse--not so much in accent, but very much in terms of grammar and vocabulary. If you think that people are making themselves harder to understand and soon English will split into different languages -- that is exactly the opposite of the truth!Personally, I like the English language to be very diverse because I am interested in language, and I'm sad about the loss of dialect, but I can't deny that people often want or need to adapt their speech in order to communicate properly, and not everyone has the same preferences as me. But if they can communicate adequately, why do we need to stamp out what little diversity is left? Fri 29 Oct 2010 17:06:52 GMT+1 corum-populo-2010 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=89#comment537 "Should we have more relevent debate questions"? is my HYS question. Fri 29 Oct 2010 17:01:54 GMT+1 rifak666 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=89#comment536 I don't fink it really mattahs wot way u sez it so long as ya mates can ear wot u is on abart ven it's cool innit!. Fri 29 Oct 2010 17:00:49 GMT+1 Jade http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=89#comment535 #488 - when in Rome, do as the Romans do! If it helps with communication, so be it! Language is a means of communication, is it not? Fri 29 Oct 2010 16:57:57 GMT+1 Ego non http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=89#comment534 Why do many Brits constantly attack American spelling? They don't spell words incorrectly - they spell them differently.A couple of other people have already mentioned Bill Bryson. I'd also like to suggest his book "Made In America" which contains a list of Americanisms that we don't have a problem with, including that most English of phrases "keeping a stiff upper lip". Also in "A Short History Of Nearly Everything" he mentions aluminium versus aluminum. In that case I think there's actually a reasonable argument for which spelling / pronunciation is correct. Three guesses which one it is...For the record I say "aitch". Fri 29 Oct 2010 16:53:28 GMT+1 bounce bounce bounce http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=88#comment533 The change in the use of language is due to those stupid Americanisms. If I were government of this country, if anyone dared to say an Americanism the penalty would be taking away their tongue.Americans have butchered the language we gave them, and they're ungrateful and unapologetic about it. They're arrogant.Another reason not to like the corrupt USA. Fri 29 Oct 2010 16:37:02 GMT+1 Iapetus http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=88#comment532 I pronounce "H" as "aitch", as I was always taught to, but I've know people who pronounce it "haitch" for just as long.Personally, I don't mind varying pronunciations, as long as it is clear what people are saying (except a few arbitrary pronunciations that make my ears cry - although I doubt there is any fundamental reason why they are "wrong").I'm much more concerned about people misusing words, as that can cause genuine misunderstandings.The BBC has often makes some particularly frustrating errors, such as using "refuted" to mean "denied", when it actually means "disproved". Fri 29 Oct 2010 16:20:19 GMT+1 George http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=88#comment531 I say haych, and I say potato and tomato. Fri 29 Oct 2010 16:00:44 GMT+1 Paul-HalfDegreeC-by2100 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=88#comment530 Oh NO . An errant apostrophy,....... AAAAAARRRRGGHHH!.!.! Fri 29 Oct 2010 15:59:32 GMT+1 Paul-HalfDegreeC-by2100 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=88#comment529 This has been one of the best threads on HYS. Passionate, heated, well written and argued. Thankyou BBC. Great fun.Now of course though comes "The Reckoning". On the high ground, the "Fogey`s", armed with Grammar, Vocabulary and of course the devastating and still rather controversial Accent.Surrounding them are hordes of "Language Evolvers". They in turn armed with Slang, Abbreviation and the incredible Text-speak, able to take out an entire Fogey paragraph at even mobile phone range.We can only wait and watch the glinting from the razor sharp words as the dusk falls. Fri 29 Oct 2010 15:49:48 GMT+1 leoRoverman http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=88#comment528 #417 Simi_cue. Fair point but don't forget that American speech is far more glottal and Nasal ( with variations). You say Eye-raq (Iraq) and eye-ran ( Iran).The Americans have turned endings in "ing" to "in'". Now that was a colloquial English trait in the 16th Century, but it now appears to be standard American and the glottal method of speech tends to swallow H's. So its no good saying that America has not affected standard English because it has. There is also the issue of "Ain't" which seems to have blighted our lives. Taken largely from American Film speech it is really badly contextualised. "Ain't" is the shortened form of "are not" which can be perfectly acceptable for the PLURAL, ie " These are not my Cattle". It cannot possibly be correct for the singular which of course is "Is not". Americans appear to have done away with the singular which is patent laziness. Then there is the little issue of simplified spelling such as the word "Colour"; an English word adapted from the word in french "Coleur". Why can the Americans not spell it that way instead of "Color". Through is now shortened to "Thro'" This is of course sheer laziness or over simplification. But I suppose my biggest bugbear is with the word Wrought. Now the New english dictionary says that for the purposes of journalism that the correct usage is wreaked, but that must be wrong!!. If you forge something in a fire such as a blade it is "wrought" as is in "wrought Iron"- when you make it you wreak it. So you can "wreak havoc" in the present tense. It stands the reason that was "wreaked" at the time must have been "wrought" in the past. Ergo to say that he "wreaked havoc" must be just plain wrong.But then as I heard one American say to his partner CEST LA VYE Fri 29 Oct 2010 15:22:27 GMT+1 Ross Nelhams http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=87#comment527 And all this stuff about 'Sub-standard American influence' and 'lamentable modern usage'! Languages are LIVING things and they change and evolve, or at least they should do- that was how Old English became Modern English, or how Latin became Italian, Spanish and Portuguese. Trying to stop these changes reeks of petty nationalism and arrogant intellectual conservatism. Chill out, fellows!!!! Fri 29 Oct 2010 14:56:59 GMT+1 Ross Nelhams http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=87#comment526 The first and second comments on this forum are perfect examples of the unwarranted snobbery with which 'educated' people look down on how young people use the language. One claims that the young are starting to ignore the 'proper' pronunciation of words implicit in the way they're spelled, but that's just nonsense. English is one of the most phonetically inconsistent of all languages- we don't actually put an 'o' sound in colour, even though it's spelt with two. Fri 29 Oct 2010 14:51:12 GMT+1 Paul-HalfDegreeC-by2100 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=87#comment525 524. At 3:30pm on 29 Oct 2010, raindancer68 wrote:As has already been said, as long as you can make yourself understood, then it doesn't matter what inflection(s) you use. ------------------------------------------ Hi raindancer68,Changing the inflection will often alter the meaning, and therefore what is understood.So I fail to see any logic in your argument. In fact I would go so far as to say there is`nt any. Fri 29 Oct 2010 14:47:56 GMT+1 andrea http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=87#comment524 At 1:42pm on 29 Oct 2010, andrea wrote:I say both 'haitch' and 'aitch'. It depends on what context I'm using it in. I say Haitch if I'm saying the letter on it's own, but if it's part of an acronym then I would say N-aitch-S, or P-aitch-D. *******************************************************************This is the worst excuse for bad speech I've heard. It proves you can say it properly, so why apply the aspiration? *sigh*--------------------------------------------------------------------I'm just being truthful. I'm sorry I don't live up to your high standards. I'd never thought about the letter H and its pronunciation before this debate today. I've just done a quick survey at work and everyone here (all Yorkshire folk) uses Haitch. It had never occurred to any of us that people said it in different ways. Fri 29 Oct 2010 14:41:00 GMT+1 raindancer68 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=87#comment523 As has already been said, as long as you can make yourself understood, then it doesn't matter what inflection(s) you use. What the English language needs is a good prune -- mostly of cognate Latinized words of English originals, like "commence" for start/begin. People only say commence because they think it makes them sound more intelligent. As Churchill once said, the short words are the best. Fri 29 Oct 2010 14:30:14 GMT+1 Neil Roberts http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=87#comment522 If you want to be correct its "aitch" if you don't care about being correct then say it however you like, just don't expect everybody to think you are particularly well educated. Makes no difference to me how people choose to pronounce it but if you know anything about linguistics at all you will know the correct pronunciation to be "aitch".Neil Roberts MA Applied Linguistics, Dip TESOL, Cert Tefla. Fri 29 Oct 2010 14:09:45 GMT+1 thomas http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=86#comment521 I don't know whether to follow my father's example and pronounce advertisement Ad-ver-tize-ment or pronounce it as my mother does Ad-vert-iss-ment. Who is right? Fri 29 Oct 2010 14:08:05 GMT+1 MizzJShaw http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=86#comment520 How can anyone pronounce a letter that is not in the spelling of the word. Aitch does not begin with an H, however, once upon a time we pronounced Hotel, Otel, and left off the H. Even BBC presenters use talk instead of speak, and saaaays instead of sess. As someone who was educated in Canada, I find the whole English language amazing. Does it matter how it is pronounced when the majority of people don't know the difference between a noun, a verb or an adverb, as for prepositions, personal pronouns and punctuation, past and present tenses, even the newspapers can't that those right. The one thing I thank Canade for is teaching me English as a language, but does it really matter how it is pronounced, as long as you get your message across in simple plain English. Fri 29 Oct 2010 14:03:45 GMT+1 Rudehamster http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=86#comment519 At 1:42pm on 29 Oct 2010, andrea wrote:I say both 'haitch' and 'aitch'. It depends on what context I'm using it in. I say Haitch if I'm saying the letter on it's own, but if it's part of an acronym then I would say N-aitch-S, or P-aitch-D. *******************************************************************This is the worst excuse for bad speech I've heard. It proves you can say it properly, so why apply the aspiration? *sigh* Fri 29 Oct 2010 13:54:04 GMT+1 Ron http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=86#comment518 There have always been people that could not speak correctly, or were ignorant of grammar, this has not changed over the years. The main difference I can see in more recent years is the greater use of people with poor speech in the media, both in drama (which is understandable), and as presenters (inexcusable!). It's sad to see a growth in the latter, what hope do kids stand really when they are bombarded with errors in written and spoke word all day. Still, at least the schools will be doing their best to counteract this, won't they?. Won't they? Oh dear... Fri 29 Oct 2010 13:36:13 GMT+1 Ben http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=86#comment517 Sorry for my mangling of English in my first sentence up there, replace the second "can" with "is said". I wasn't concentrating... Fri 29 Oct 2010 13:30:03 GMT+1 David http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=86#comment516 Language evolves over time, though it's still important in many careers to be able to speak in acceptable way.The almost incomprehesible babble that comes out out of some peoples mouths will almost certainly preclude them from getting a decent job.Whatever the liberal " it doesn't matter" brigade say, this is a fact.The annoying way they say "like" after every few words or the way they raise the intonation of their voice at the end of a sentance to turn it into a question is very irritating.Of course language evolves, but at least we should strive to pronounce words in the correct way. Fri 29 Oct 2010 13:23:14 GMT+1 Ron http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=85#comment515 508. At 1:31pm on 29 Oct 2010, Casitian wrote:Fortunately the majority of UK people don,t speak like the queen and her sychophants and associate croniesa posed accent to indicate one is upper class or is it Clarse"I mean....how many "R"s are there in Off?.......---------------Shame on you, Casitian for such a ludicrous and archaic statement. Just because a few bafoons spoke that way, and a were aped by caricatures of these types in numerous comedy shows, doesn't mean that it ever was thought to be the correct pronunciation! Similarly, just because people are depicted in shows such as Eastenders as speaking in an appallingly poor manner (as many do across the country), neither does it mean that it too should be regarded as having any validity.The point of grammar and punctuation is to convey meaning as clearly and precisely as reasonably possible. The English language evolves very slowly to take into account gradual changes but remains largely unambiguous and meaningful. Typical teenager speech (and sadly, that of many adults), on the other hand, is far from precise as anyone that has listened to a group of them trying to communicate with one another will testify, so lets not try and inflict that on the rest of us! Fri 29 Oct 2010 13:19:30 GMT+1 Ben http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=85#comment514 However, I'm firmly in the Haitch camp! This is not through any teachings, but because I believe that if you were to write every letter down, I would try to spell each letter begining with that letter. It doesn't work with every letter, Eff, Ell, Em and Enn being obvious ones, but when H can be written Haytch and easily pronounced, I reckon it should be!-------------------------------------So why are F, L, M and N exempt from the logic that if it can be written as it can it should be? What exactly is wrong (coming from your point of view that H should be "haitch" to make it start with that letter) with F being "feff", L being "lell", etc.? To me (following your logic about H) there is nothing "obvious" about N not being "nenn", it can be written like that and easily pronounced, what is wrong?Note: I am firmly in the "aitch" camp. Fri 29 Oct 2010 13:13:25 GMT+1 This is a colleague announcement http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=85#comment513 511. At 1:44pm on 29 Oct 2010, proud2baTROLL wrote:"...Er, well, the pronunciation "Parkistarn", comes from, er, Pakistan."+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Ah well the part of Pakistan my mate Abdul comes from must have a different accent. (That's Bradford, by the way.). Fri 29 Oct 2010 13:13:13 GMT+1 Michael Lloyd http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=85#comment512 "At 1:01pm on 29 Oct 2010, Vinny C wrote:"I was born in Aigburth, Liverpool in 1947, and we never said "garridge." Indeed, we looked down on anyone who did. We always said "garrarge." Shall we have a go at "envelope" while we are at it? We said "onvelope" as per the French original, but less well-educated people said "ennvelope" as written.I don't think it's a regional thing in these cases; possibly educational, maybe?"________________________________________Looked down on anyone who did? Charming! At least we can spell envelope."So can I.I deliberately chose the spelling in order to emphasise the pronunciation.Sorry if this is too complicated for you - stick to sneering at people, don't try to understand what they wrote or why they wrote it. You forgot to comment on my spelling of "garrarge", didn't you, or did you manage to understand that one? Fri 29 Oct 2010 12:47:00 GMT+1 dawlishdilbert http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=85#comment511 'Haitch' is wrong and I think it is down to the user thinking that the way the letter is _pronounced_ is linked to how it _appears_. They wouldn't think the same about the letter 'W' would they, by trying to force the 'w' sound in front, i.e. 'wdoubleu'? Fri 29 Oct 2010 12:46:52 GMT+1 Paul-HalfDegreeC-by2100 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=85#comment510 498. At 1:11pm on 29 Oct 2010, Eddy from Waring wrote:Where do "Irarq" and "Parkistarn" come from, BBC? -------------------------------------Hi Eddy,Er, well, the pronunciation "Parkistarn", comes from, er, Pakistan. Fri 29 Oct 2010 12:44:08 GMT+1 andrea http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=84#comment509 I say both 'haitch' and 'aitch'. It depends on what context I'm using it in. I say Haitch if I'm saying the letter on it's own, but if it's part of an acronym then I would say N-aitch-S, or P-aitch-D. Fri 29 Oct 2010 12:42:09 GMT+1 This is a colleague announcement http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=84#comment508 503. At 1:17pm on 29 Oct 2010, Pandora wrote:"...Agreed it is borrowed from French!..."+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++When do we have to give it back? Fri 29 Oct 2010 12:40:45 GMT+1 Casitian http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=84#comment507 Fortunately the majority of UK people don,t speak like the queen and her sychophants and associate croniesa posed accent to indicate one is upper class or is it Clarse"I mean....how many "R"s are there in Off?does it rub "Orf" the really famous one. Or France.." frarnce"etc Prancer or prarncer.dancer or darncer Fri 29 Oct 2010 12:31:55 GMT+1 AndrewG http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=84#comment506 Who has the right to say how a letter is spelt or pronounced?I am a "yoof" and come from Cumbria, where the dialect is strong. When I started university I had to make a deliberate effort to remove any accent or dialect so that others could understand what I was saying.However, I'm firmly in the Haitch camp! This is not through any teachings, but because I believe that if you were to write every letter down, I would try to spell each letter begining with that letter. It doesn't work with every letter, Eff, Ell, Em and Enn being obvious ones, but when H can be written Haytch and easily pronounced, I reckon it should be!Next, you'll want all the scousers, geordies and cockneys to speak Queens english! Accept everyones differences, if you don't your no better than a common racist! Fri 29 Oct 2010 12:28:58 GMT+1 tardigrade http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=84#comment505 As for mischievous, the Concise Oxford Dictionary adds a specific note on pronunciation: "Mischievous is a three-syllable word; do not pronounce it with four syllables, as if it were spelled mischievious".Many errors of pronunciation occur because stress is wrongly-placed within a polysyllabic word, e.g misCHIEvious, instead of the correct English form MISchievous/ Fri 29 Oct 2010 12:26:58 GMT+1 SSnotbanned http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=84#comment504 I no'ice many speaky english with pidgeon Y'y 'ongue.If in doub'fire jus leahe out 'he problemo le**er/leer,Asinn,''You'v bean 'ad''.'ave a god day, numero 1. Fri 29 Oct 2010 12:26:49 GMT+1 Baron Samedi http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=83#comment503 Luckily, I left school a long time before the "As long as the person you're speaking to understands what you're saying, it doesn't matter if the way they say it 'correct' or not." nonsense came into fashion.Unfortunately, it was well under way when my sons started school. I had very severe problems because I wasn't prepared to put up with it. I gave them extra English lessons at home and was continually criticised by their school for doing it. I pointed out that if the school couldn't provide them with a competent teacher of English then I'd have to teach them correct English usage myself. And that's what I did for their entire school career. Fri 29 Oct 2010 12:19:44 GMT+1 Pandora http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=83#comment502 I still remember my old school class in which our English teacher kept us repeating the word 'sabotage' more than 10 times. we were saying it like sabot-age (age as length of time), where as the correct one is /ˈsabətɑːʒ/. He used to only stress the last bit "ɑːʒ" which brings out a different tone to the word. Agreed it is borrowed from French! Fri 29 Oct 2010 12:17:11 GMT+1 Dan_Dover http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=83#comment501 #497. At 1:07pm on 29 Oct 2010, perfectpenny wrote:"how about this sentence "Buffalo Buffalo Buffalo Buffalo Buffalo Buffalo". Which will really knock down the grammar nuts since it is entirely grammatically correct."You mean 'Buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo'. Fri 29 Oct 2010 12:17:07 GMT+1 SSnotbanned http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=83#comment500 huh??'h'as in ''helpless with laughter'' at this mind numbing excercise. Fri 29 Oct 2010 12:15:32 GMT+1 Billy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/10/do_you_say_aitch_or_haitch.html?page=83#comment499 45. At 11:24am on 28 Oct 2010, Daft Fader wrote:The egsinlh lgaangue is vrey pfowuerl, you can eilsay tlel waht is bneig teypd or sekpon, eevn wehn all the ltetres are meixd up. I tnihk its ievrrnelat how we say sthinomeg, so lnog as it is urseotndod!----------Unless of course you have a synanagram, then spelling becomes quite important. Fri 29 Oct 2010 12:15:02 GMT+1