Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html en-gb 30 Wed 01 Oct 2014 01:46:52 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html kec132 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=99#comment912 Oh my goodness ... what an incredibly knuckle headed thing to say.The European forces, headed by the UK, were in the forefront of WWII for 2.5 years before the US was attacked at Pearl Harbor and joined the war effort.Europe was not recovered yet from WWI, the Depression and all that came with it. The US had those 2.5 years to gear up, and get prepared. It's silly for Cameron to so casually mis-state UK's role in WWII. Sat 24 Jul 2010 23:18:51 GMT+1 Emps http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=99#comment911 484 Blurgle WroteI'm not seeing the problem. In the European theatre of operations, Britain was by far a junior partner - to the Soviet Union.-------------------------------I completely disagree with that considering the fact That Britain suppliedRussia with essential munitions,hundreds of Spitfire and Hurricane fighters after germany destroyed most of the Russian air force,not just the aircraft but also the pilots.Without material support from Britain and the USRussia would have been in dire consequences when the Nazis invaded their country.And this at a time when Britain itself was suffering shortages. Churchill foresaw the importance of Russia as necessary ally at the timeand offered Stalin that support. Sat 24 Jul 2010 22:56:52 GMT+1 Emps http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=99#comment910 485 Yank_n_Brit WroteThe fact is that GB entered the war not when the conflict and fighting started, but when it decided the time was right. As did the United States in 1941.____________________________________Of course GB enetered the the war when the time was right..which was when Germany invaded Poland,with Both France and Britain having defence treaties with that country. In other words the Brits entered because ofthat obligation, not just at a convenient time. Sat 24 Jul 2010 22:28:26 GMT+1 Buzzardstubble since 2007 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=99#comment909 This a rather sad judgement on the value of an Eton education and I rather think his former master will have been on the telephone. If we cannot learn the lessons of history, we are told that we are doomed to repeat them...I hope not.I recently chastised the BBC, for attributing the commencement of attacks on London to July 1940. Unfortunately, for those of us who consider history to be important, many people inhabit the 'now' society, and just expect to be paid for turning up.For an educated man, in that position, this was a big gaffe. 1000 lines to me by Friday Cameron! Sat 24 Jul 2010 22:25:28 GMT+1 Darling Mikey http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=99#comment908 Certain people have felt the need to re write history to make it politically correct and acceptable to what the government thinks should be acceptable. So really what difference does it make?Give it a few more years and Churchill will have been a black son of a slave and Thatcher will have been a single Lesbian mother.We are already seeing films re made to correct the perceived colour imbalance, stage shows are suddenly finding lead characters change sex or race even when they are set in a time where immigration was not heard of. So am I concerned that the PM makes a mistake. History will tell. And that my friends can be re written. Sat 24 Jul 2010 22:25:00 GMT+1 Icebloo http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=99#comment907 Typical Tory - he has no clue about real life. I bet his rich grandparents were sat at home drinking German wine when the war was happening.Can we have another election yet ? I'm sick of this incompetent and superficial buffoon. I don't want to see him on TV anymore, I don't want to see his fake smile anymore and I don't want to hear his annoying voice or his annoying excuses anymore. It's going to be a LONG 4 years......Once again I am ashamed to be British. Sat 24 Jul 2010 22:10:45 GMT+1 voice_germany http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=99#comment906 Historical facts that show that the statement "The UK were the junior partner in 1940 when we were fighting the Nazis" is not true:1. England had a treaty with Poland (25.08.1939) when Germany started WWII by invading Poland (01.09.1939).2. In 1940 a treaty between Nazi Germany, Italy and Japan has been made in order to gain power over Europe and East Asia.3. In 1940 the German aircraft has been firstly superior and contributed to the success of the so-called "Blitz" war, but they didn´t manage that 335.000 British and French soldiers moved back from Dünkirchen; it has been in 1941 that Germany finally lost the socalled "Battle of Britain" because of the development of British radar equipment and long-distance bombers as decisive turning points.4. In 1940 there has been an uncertainty because in the first phase of the German "Blitz" it seemed that England was close to defeat: In May and June 1940 Germany invaded the Netherlands and Belgium and finally France ("Battle of France").5. As a politicial consequence, Churchill formed the "War Cabinett" when he became PM (10.05.1940) and he made his famous and unforgettable radio broadcasts that lifted up the UK´s moral: "Blood, toil, tears and sweat" - "We shall fight on the beaches, on the streets, on the hills" - "This was their finest hour";6. The USA supported the UK since the beginning of WWII in 1939 in Europe. Despite tensions between the UK and the Soviet Union over the situation in the Middle East these three powers united in 1941 (and not in 1940!) against Nazi Germany.7. For the agreement between the UK and the USA a "national council for defence" has been made in 1940 by President Roosevelt: After Roosevelt´s speech about the USA as an "arsenal of democracy" in response to Churchill´s annual report of 1940 about the UK´s national situation in December 1940. Sat 24 Jul 2010 19:47:48 GMT+1 star http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=99#comment905 i wonder what has happened to some of the British people instead of being thank full for all those who fought for them ,they are being criticized no matter who they were they died so that we could live,my grand fathers first cousin fought for british against japs and since than he is mentally ill and he has been like that since than and suffered all his life Sat 24 Jul 2010 19:18:42 GMT+1 richard poor http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=99#comment904 Don't worry, we have a President who believes we have 57 States and a homeland security chief, who gives an interview in Mobile, Alabama and states she just talked to the governor and his party and identifies him as the governor of Mississippi. Unfortunately that kind of thing happens every day in the halls of Congress. In my entire life of 66 years I have never witnessed such an array of undereducated politicians and administrators. And it doesn't stop there, most people under the age of 50 are basically borderline illiterates. No wonder the USA is slowly going to hell! To answer the question; History is always the answer to the future. If you don't know the historical facts, problems will be harder to answer. History, if conducted from primary sources, is the answer to the future. Sat 24 Jul 2010 18:49:58 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=98#comment903 #899 "Yes- Israel exists and is not going away.Get used to it, hippies."I didn't realise that both Ahmadinnerjacket and bin Laden were hippies.I thought they were boy scouts: judging by their looks and actions. :) Sat 24 Jul 2010 17:51:32 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=98#comment902 R #885 "Otherwise not bad, but could do better..."Sorry for forgetting to include that quintessentially English townNEW ORLEANS. [not to mention Indianapolis, La Jolla, Miami, Orlando, Palm Springs..:)]P.S. So when this WWII ended and who received the final unconditional capitulation - where and from whom? ;)-----------------------------------------------------------------------------"Do you know the way to San Jose?" Sat 24 Jul 2010 17:44:53 GMT+1 Muhammad Zaman http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=98#comment901 "David Cameron has been criticised after mistakenly saying the UK was the "junior partner" in the allied World War II fight against Germany in 1940. Should he face criticism for saying this?"He should be criticized for not knowing that Britain was the only combatant, at the nation level, in 1940 after the French were occupied by the Germans.It would also explain the absence of USAF fighers during the Battle of Britain.And the ignoramus ought to apologize to the families of all the UK and Commonwealth servicemen and women who gave their lives fighting the Nazis.There is no such thing as a 'junior death' to the bereaved - not even when our PM diminishes the UK contribution in an attempt to ingratiate himself with the Americans at the expense of the country. Sat 24 Jul 2010 17:33:47 GMT+1 justin de shed http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=98#comment900 503. At 7:41pm on 22 Jul 2010, Norman Brooke wrote: Hitler never took the invasion of Britain all that seriously because he was a Land power and new he could not match the RN at sea.______________________________He was deadly serious, don't believe all the aftermarket tripe, it's all just a sop to the Germans failure, put forward by a bunch of ex nazi amateur historians.You don't waste thousands of highly skilled airmen that can be sorely used elsewhere, on a whim, not even if your names Adolf. Sat 24 Jul 2010 17:33:43 GMT+1 Paul J http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=98#comment899 David Cameron is, I feel, another victim of the 'Masochistic School of History', which is a peculiarly British school. Pretty well everyone else in the world undertands that the purpose of history is to tell your own people's story in a way that builds community and nationhood. You don't have to tell everyone else's story, they will do that for themselves and far more ably than you can. But when you start to believe their story, you stop being yourself and start to become someone else. So many Britons get their history from Hollywood or from British-made films that need to sell in the US, and it explains a lot about how modern-Britons view themselves in relation to the US. Mr. Cameron is no exception. Sat 24 Jul 2010 17:12:20 GMT+1 Black_And_Proud http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=98#comment898 Yes- Israel exists and is not going away.Get used to it, hippies. Sat 24 Jul 2010 17:04:25 GMT+1 Jeff Smith http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=98#comment897 627. At 01:04am on 23 Jul 2010, mortice rigger wrote:'After all the US wins the world series every year.'____First, this statement is not true. In 1992 and again in 1993 it was won by Toronto. Try doing a little research.Second, it was named for its sponsor, a newspaper called The World. What you are implying is akin to saying Manchester United is partially responsible for the banking crisis because they play in the Barclays Premier League. Sat 24 Jul 2010 16:29:16 GMT+1 D G Cullum http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=98#comment896 Why are we surprised that PMs do not know about history? and those who lead the country not knowing when the USA came in to join us Cameron hug a hoody need to get a better scribe than he has but then he is selling a image how he is friends with the USA and is busy kow towing to Obama and the cabal that runs the world now thanks men like them. He wants to show that what ever the USA wants we will do a Blair for them, Blair was a hard act for him to follow. People think kids who go to private school go because they are clever and intelligent not so they go because the parents have the money to pay for them and its not what you know that matters but whom you know. Sat 24 Jul 2010 16:07:17 GMT+1 archgrumpy1 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=98#comment895 Blair used to be called teflon Tony for slippng and sliding around his 'little' mistakes. Now we have curvy Cameron apparently avoiding controversy after making a stupid ( but so in character) mistake.The Yanks would have sat out the enire war, if the Japanese haddened destroyed a large part of thier fleet. After all what is Urop to most yanks - it's a foreign land - a bit like Milwaukee Sat 24 Jul 2010 16:00:33 GMT+1 justin de shed http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=97#comment894 813. At 5:24pm on 23 Jul 2010, David Toulman wrote:So much for the Deparment of History at Eton College. I think that Cameron Senioe should demand a refund of fees.That loan that many HYSers mention that we only finihsed paying off recently was a post war loan. Nothing to do with Lend Lease.-------------So is lend lease still alive and well?, wasn't it also known as the Golden dollar reserves. Has Mr Obama has just missed another opportunity to screw Cameron down, and just when he thought he'd sorted all his debts out too. Sat 24 Jul 2010 15:56:55 GMT+1 Olde Saxon http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=97#comment893 David Cameron did not make a 'historical slip'.I quote from Winston Churchill's 'The Second World War' (abridged version). On page 507 he said, concerning Declaration signed by "all nations at war with Germany and Italy, ot with Japan" and the order of precedence of these Nations, that "we gladly accorded the first place to the United States". Try lambasting Sir Winston for that!! Sat 24 Jul 2010 15:46:12 GMT+1 justin de shed http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=97#comment892 Given that the British Empire still existed at that time, and that it was certainly far far larger than the USA, and even though diminished was still larger at the end of the WAR. How on earth can Cameron get it so wrong. We were 'the only' senior partner throughout and the US was'nt too happy, especially as they wanted special treatment for all their material. Sat 24 Jul 2010 15:22:45 GMT+1 justin de shed http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=97#comment891 824. At 7:06pm on 23 Jul 2010, Robert Gomez wrote:Few posting here (including myself) were even alive at the time of the war and even fewer (if any) actually fought in the conflict. I wonder what those who fought would say if they read through these pathetic comments.___________________________________A silly remark and one that the US supporters are capitalising on, no doubt relying on so-called research on Wikipedia, (aristotle 23) also of course many books have been published not all of them that reliable some down right useless.What these detractors fail to realise is that there is a massive majority of people in the UK who were born immediately at the end of the war (bulge babies)with parents who actually took part in it and therefore had first hand knowledge. Presumably very unlike Mr Cameron who's parents did'nt apparently pass much on, but a yen for shallow waffle and forelock tugging. Sat 24 Jul 2010 14:56:07 GMT+1 justin de shed http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=97#comment890 aristotle 23,Come up with some real research yourself, I have first hand knowledge. Thank you. Sat 24 Jul 2010 14:24:56 GMT+1 modernJan http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=97#comment889 Somehow I have a feeling that if Mr. Cameron was a member of another party or was in opposition the whole thing (he was off by only a year) would've gone unnoticed.Personally, I found it way more worrying when a couple of months ago, Stephen Timms, who is the Minister for Digital Britain thought an IP-address was an intellectual property address. Sat 24 Jul 2010 13:43:38 GMT+1 nkersen http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=97#comment888 Coming from a country where we exceed all other with our abilities in arrogance, the USA couldn't agree more with that statement.Coming from someone who knows a little bit about the war, not that I was born then, I can safely say that not only was Britain not a junior partner, but their junior partner during either of the wars was a very distant junior. Britain's genius commanded those wars and more. Not to say, however, that Britain doesn't know arrogance.I think the statement was definitely a political rump kiss and any proud (rightfully so) veteran from Britain's armies should and would be highly offended by such a comment and would not only feel alienated but would call for Camoran's resignation for being a coward. The soldiers that were lucky enough to die during those wars do not have to go through the daily hell of memories the living soldiers have to. To make such a comment would make a vet wonder why he bothered. Because now they have some politician making they themselves seem second best, they are second to noone!Cameron needs to be more careful with his words. Bravo to our vets no matter what country they are from. They all fought and still fight for what they believed in and should never be downplayed as Cameron did. Sat 24 Jul 2010 13:23:18 GMT+1 Johns the Man http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=97#comment887 Is it right to get historical facts right? - Of course it is, but worse still, Cameron has insulted the people who faught for this country in the last war, their's wasn't a 'Junior Partner' act, the Americans only came in at the last eighteen months, but tried to claim all the glory!Good comment 500, Morlock, I couldn't have put it better! Sat 24 Jul 2010 12:11:44 GMT+1 John Wright http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=97#comment886 Hi, John Wright of #731.So the Chinese weren't on our side then?How easily we all forget their contribution.Britain was not alone in 1940.In Europe, yes - but not globally.The Chinese were in conflict with the Japanese and had been since 1937, and that was the extent of their involvement. No doubt if you ask a Chinese when the war started 1937 would be their answer. They made no contribution to any area outside until the Americans entered the war in conflict with Japan. They would also call it the second Sino-Japanese war or the Eight Years' War of Resistance. At least in English anyway. For the first year they were getting assistance from Nazi Germany - which does not really count as being on our side.Ask peoples across the world involved in WWII when it started and you will get a myriad answers. Remind me just what was the Chinese contibution outside the conflict with Japan in 1940? Sat 24 Jul 2010 10:06:56 GMT+1 SussexRokx http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=96#comment885 882. At 10:46am on 24 Jul 2010, billy wrote:5. At 11:48am on 22 Jul 2010, Togodubnus wrote:"Is it important to get historical facts right?Yes, yes it is.Although much as i dislike defending Cameron (i shall wash afterwards), its perfectly possible to put forward an argument rooted in sound historical sources that Britain was indeed the 'junior partner' in 1940.Its not an argument I agree with but it is valid.History - rarely as black and white as you think its going to be."-----------------------America did not enter the war until Dec 1941, in 1940 Russia was on Germany's side(switched in June 1941 when Germany attacked her) so I think in 1940 we were the main country standing against the axis powers.Our education standards are supposed to be improving every year but our pm, many other politicians and many posters on HYS don't know basic history!---------------------------Britain and its Empire did indeed stand alone against the Axis powers for much of 1940, but were in fact joined later that year by another European country that few have mentioned - Greece...Not that it did them much good... Sat 24 Jul 2010 10:03:06 GMT+1 SussexRokx http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=96#comment884 878. At 10:24am on 24 Jul 2010, powermeerkat wrote:"That is why most of their [American] cities are named after English places."Sure: Alamo, Albuquerque, Alexandria, Anchorage, Atlanta, Barstow, Baton Rouge, Boston, Chicago, Cincinnati, Cody, Corpus Cristi, Detroit, Dodge City, Duluth, Encino, Eureka, Galveston, Houston, Indian Springs, Juarez, Juneau, Laguna Beach, Las Vegas, Lompoc, Los Angeles, Nalibu, Memphis, Mojave, Monterey, Ojai, Oklahoma City, Palmdale, Phoenix, Reno, Sacramento, San Diego, San Francisco, San Juan Capistrano, San Louis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Santa Maria, Santa Monica, San Onofre, Santa Fe, Santa Rosa, S. Lake Tahoe, St. Louis, Seattle, Socorro, Topeca, Tucson, Valdez, Washington, Wichita Falls, Yuma.To name just a few "English names"--------------------Er, Boston, Lincolnshire, England...Otherwise not bad, but could do better... Sat 24 Jul 2010 09:54:39 GMT+1 billy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=96#comment883 484. At 7:11pm on 22 Jul 2010, Blurgle wrote:"I'm not seeing the problem. In the European theatre of operations, Britain was by far a junior partner - to the Soviet Union.Let's not play the foolish Anglocentric game of believing that America won the war."-------------------Err...in 1940, the date Cameron was refering to, the Soviet Union was on Germany's side and actuallly our enemy. The Soviet regiem was just as evil as Hitler's and they only sided with the west for there own survival when Hitler turned on them. Sat 24 Jul 2010 09:52:56 GMT+1 SussexRokx http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=96#comment882 Whilst it was wrong to describe Britain as a "junior partner" in 1940, history has a habit of being misrepresented in many ways.Narrative history is written from a "point of view". Whilst there are facts that may support this point of view, facts in isolation are more accurate than any narrative. The bombing of Dresden and Hamburg is considered by the allies as a great if somewhat controversial success, however the German view is somewhat different.The Battle of Britain has always been perceived, by the Brits at least, as the first important turning point in the war, from a British point of view. The German take on the matter is completely different, but they lost, so they didn't get to write the British narrative.For many years German narrative history denied the holocaust, yet from any other country's point of view it happened. Today the Germans are our allies, as indeed are the French and Spanish, both of whom we had been fighting against for a much longer period.The Russians have always been very adept at adapting history to favour themselves.The French take on the Napoleonic Wars would be somewhat different from ours, as indeed would the Spanish angle on the defeat of the Armada.Every country writes its narrative history in a manner that favours that country. As for the trans-Atlantic alliance, there are two completely different angles to the War of Independence, and we Brits won't thank the French for that one...Bring on that great American patriot Paul Revere (of course Longfellow's poem is a somewhat romanticised version of the truth)...I rest my case M'Lud... Sat 24 Jul 2010 09:50:12 GMT+1 billy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=96#comment881 5. At 11:48am on 22 Jul 2010, Togodubnus wrote:"Is it important to get historical facts right?Yes, yes it is.Although much as i dislike defending Cameron (i shall wash afterwards), its perfectly possible to put forward an argument rooted in sound historical sources that Britain was indeed the 'junior partner' in 1940.Its not an argument I agree with but it is valid.History - rarely as black and white as you think its going to be."-----------------------America did not enter the war until Dec 1941, in 1940 Russia was on Germany's side(switched in June 1941 when Germany attacked her) so I think in 1940 we were the main country standing against the axis powers.Our education standards are supposed to be improving every year but our pm, many other politicians and many posters on HYS don't know basic history! Sat 24 Jul 2010 09:46:05 GMT+1 kappacino http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=96#comment880 Cameron undermined the role of britain in the 2nd world war and fed the misconception of the USA of being the saviours of the world, a misconception propogated when they rewrtie history through Hollywood. Now when they talk about their glorious salvations they will point to our Premier as confirming the lie. Sat 24 Jul 2010 09:44:41 GMT+1 M5J29 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=96#comment879 If anyone has wandered through Flanders or Northern France you cannot go far without seeing a cemetery to the war dead. To sit amongst the headstones makes you think. You read the inscriptions men from Ottawa, Lancashire or Dublin, Bombay, Alice Springs and Dunedin you become astounded by the amount of graves Of Chinese labour battalions its proof of mans indifference to man and other countries disrespect of other nations. War, sometimes, is a necessary evil but those who fight in them should be given the dignity and remembrance they deserve and Cameron's unfortunate mistake was just that, a mistake. As an individual or a Britisher I don't see myself as 'junior' to anyone except my dad , who incidentally fought in Korea and Malaya, and my elder brother nor am I better than anyone else so lets all remember but get on with our lives we only have one. Sat 24 Jul 2010 09:40:16 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=96#comment878 "In the end, it was Poland that wound up helping Britain, their pilots in the RAF during the Battle of Britain had the highest "kill" ratio of the entire engagement."Well there was also that Polish Parachute Brigade dropped 'a bridge too far' (to save British troops), and gen. Maczek's Armor Division which liberated Holland.I won't even mention this small Enigima thing]All sold down the river at Yalta.-------------------------------------------------------------------------Never in the history of human conflict have so many been screwed up so much by so few. Sat 24 Jul 2010 09:32:41 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=96#comment877 "That is why most of their [American] cities are named after English places."Sure: Alamo, Albuquerque, Alexandria, Anchorage, Atlanta, Barstow, Baton Rouge, Boston, Chicago, Cincinnati, Cody, Corpus Cristi, Detroit, Dodge City, Duluth, Encino, Eureka, Galveston, Houston, Indian Springs, Juarez, Juneau, Laguna Beach, Las Vegas, Lompoc, Los Angeles, Nalibu, Memphis, Mojave, Monterey, Ojai, Oklahoma City, Palmdale, Phoenix, Reno, Sacramento, San Diego, San Francisco, San Juan Capistrano, San Louis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Santa Maria, Santa Monica, San Onofre, Santa Fe, Santa Rosa, S. Lake Tahoe, St. Louis, Seattle, Socorro, Topeca, Tucson, Valdez, Washington, Wichita Falls, Yuma.To name just a few "English names" :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))Do you at least know when WWII ENDED?!And who accepted the final, unconditional capitulation? Sat 24 Jul 2010 09:24:31 GMT+1 wiserthanyou http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=95#comment876 Being a true supporter of DC I have to admit, wasn't that impressed with the context of that comment. That will I am sure go deep into the feelings of those that survived that period and fought in the war. Also for national pride that type of comment can seriously undermine. Lets hope this is not a pattern of things to come. Come on DC, we thought better of you. Sat 24 Jul 2010 09:13:17 GMT+1 John_Bull http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=95#comment875 835. At 8:24pm on 23 Jul 2010, Rather_Be_Cycling wrote:828. At 7:39pm on 23 Jul 2010, John_Bull wrote:"Next, you dismissal of Poland as a "20 year old state” raises two other points. First, your lack of knowledge of European history as it pertains to the Poles. Research suggested. Second, the implication, that it was not worth defending. The notion that a peoples' right to exist as a nation is proportional to the age of that nation seems to resonate with "world view" of someone at the very centre of this discussion. Further, it also has some rather interesting implications for the USA."But Poland as a modern state dates from 1919. Fact. And it was an artificially drawn state whose borders contained large ethnic German and other minorities. Fact. And that it, in fact, divided Germany from East Prussia. Fact. That the notion of a "corridor" linking Danzig was not some delusional dream of Adolf Hitler, it was being rationally and reasonably dicussed as a bona fide solution especially after Poland built Gdynia as an alternate deep-water Baltic port. And that Poland had a treaty with Germany. And was seen as a useful buffer between Germany and the USSR. Fact. Was Hitler going to invade Poland eventually? Probably. Was his invasion in September and treaty with the USSR that August precipitated by the British-French Defense pact with Poland. Yes. Was Poland "worth defending"? Yes but no more than Czechoslovakia. And did the British and the French have any reasonable means (or will) of actually defending Poland from German attack. No. And if it did, why didn't they? Or are British defense treaties with other countries just "gestures" of goodwill and intent? This one sure was. Not very comforting with Stukas overhead. In the end, it was Poland that wound up helping Britain, their pilots in the RAF during the Battle of Britain had the highest "kill" ratio of the entire engagement. ================================================================We now have a deluge of FACTS, albeit superficial ones but no argument.I'm tempted to ask, what's your point, but I don't think you have one.Lets return to your original assertion. "A worthless pact turned a minor Eastern Europeans squabble into a global war because of YOU"This is an absurd revisionist and simplistic view that does not survive close scrutiny and is not shared by any credible authority. Moreover, it’s obviously more informed by anti-British sentiment than it is by rational thought.In order for it to have any validity, you first must accept the following.Since, Hitler was going to invade Eastern Europe anyway, you must therefore believe, that Britain should not have tried to deter him and nor should it have intervened to try and stop him. Again, this is not a view shared by any credible authority.Next, you must also believe, that the spectre of Hitler plundering huge tracts of Eastern Europe including European Russia, is a minor squabble.Have you any idea whatsoever how many people died on the Eastern Front?Are you being Serious?Sir, the premise to your argument is ridiculous. Sat 24 Jul 2010 09:05:27 GMT+1 Hugh Morley http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=95#comment874 Failure to record and report history accurately is to do a disservice to the entirety of humanity and future generations. Sat 24 Jul 2010 08:28:59 GMT+1 john http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=95#comment873 Suzie wrotePeople do believe we are allies with the US.Bat the realty is we take orders and obey this has been the truth for the last 50/60 years.The USA do not help Country they use Country to achieve wot they want.john Sat 24 Jul 2010 08:26:22 GMT+1 CheSparticus http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=95#comment872 yes he should not only was he total incorect it shows a repulsive degree of padaring to the us. Not only does geting this fact wrong make him look a fool it is also sladerous to those in britain who struggeled against facisium. and here is some facts about the war in 1940. A large number of the arisocrats like the cameron family were anti war and in many cases pro nazi becuse they did not want to loose workers from ther estates and factorys and becuse acisum would defend them against an increasingly vocal politareat.fact number two the usa exploited the early part of the war to weaken the british empire through loans and selling it low quaity goods so when the war ended the usa would emerge as a world hegimon. Sat 24 Jul 2010 08:16:22 GMT+1 Rufus McDufus http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=95#comment871 On the contrary. On an internet forum I feel it's necessary for others to get at least 1 historical fact wrong - otherwise we'd have nothing to argue about! Sat 24 Jul 2010 07:58:13 GMT+1 newageoracle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=95#comment870 David Cameron MADE A MISTAKE...during an otherwise very successful visit to the US; which allowed both The US President and the British PM to clear the air and set the terms for a mutually more constructive and healthy relalationship than existed during the Bush/Blair era. If only the BBC could find a way to make HYS debates equally constructive and less juvenile. I cringe when I read the infantile anti-US diatribe on these boards...I hope American visitors to HYS are able to distinguish between mature comment and kiddies' corner mischief making. Sat 24 Jul 2010 07:54:18 GMT+1 Michael Sandy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=95#comment869 Of course it's vitally important to get your historical facts right, especially in public. Look at David Irving, unable/unwilling to understand just how the Jewish population of Europe could fall by so many millions during the late 30s and 40s. The British Empire (not just Great Britain) was not even the "junior partner" come 1944 and the liberation of Europe, let alone in 1940 when it was us alone standing up to the Nazi steamroller.I wonder what else Camoron's completely wrong about? In his defence, I don't suppose his school did much modern history. Sat 24 Jul 2010 07:25:52 GMT+1 laughingjkings http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=95#comment868 The UK history curriculum is appalling - The Wild West? What? It takes a pro-Anglocentric view (where are the Celts?) and only discusses Europe in respect of conflict (Napoleonic Wars, WW1 and WW2). It ignores the common historical development of the European continent (which many Euroseptic protaganists would choose to ignore). One could argue that the History curriculum in this country is extraordinarily manipulative. History cannot be considered in geographical isolation, which is something that most UK History commentators have tended to do. Interestingly, although the US did not enter the War until Pearl Harbour, there was a provision of equipment and supplies prior to this date (Lend-Lease), so History is always open to interpretation. Sat 24 Jul 2010 07:22:24 GMT+1 Andy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=94#comment867 Of course it is important to get facts correct, not just things like dates but statements also. It is grossly insulting to describe GB as the 'junior partner' whatever the truth of that may actually be. Of course if Cameron had spent less time grovelling and sucking up the the Americans perhaps the mistake wouldn't have been made. His behaviour in the USA was just disgraceful! The last time a British PM grovelled to the Americans we ended up entering an illegal war [Iraq] ... one can only wonder what the current idiot will commit the UK to!!! Sat 24 Jul 2010 07:19:40 GMT+1 Le Powerful http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=94#comment866 WWII was a long time ago but that does not detract that the historical fact, particularly when used for political purposes, must be correct. How can he expect children to learn anything when he can't be bothered himself to check some basic fact?It's a little worrying that this man has his finger 'on the button' so to speak when it comes to Afghanistan and Iraq. If I were a soldier I'd be very worried that he can't check basic history as he decides, along with other incompetents, whether I go to an area where I'm likely to be shot dead.I can imagine the Cabinet conversation.... "Can someone get me a map - just want to check where Afghanistan is.... Is it near Canvey?" Sat 24 Jul 2010 07:02:36 GMT+1 Wipedout http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=94#comment865 I'm afraid this just goes to show how low our politicians will go to appease our so called friends in America!Also it brings to mind the lack of teaching history in schools! Maybe if our politicians learnt some history they may not actually make the common mistakes they always do! Sat 24 Jul 2010 06:58:41 GMT+1 ruffled_feathers http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=94#comment864 "861. At 04:55am on 24 Jul 2010, Samson D wrote:I like David Cameron. It seems to me he is an honest guy who tells the truth. Come on guys, Britain was for sure a junior partner during the Second World War. How come we forgot that just recently Britain was a junior partner(again) to topple Sadam Hussein's regime. Well, sixty years from now you may argue that Britain was not a junior partner in toppling the sadam's government. Please just leave this man alone. David Cameron has a spine unlike his predecessors, so get over it."Um - he mentioned specifically 1940. USA did not enter the war until 1941. Implication is that Britain, Commonwealth, fighters from occupied Europe and some Americans who independently joined our forces were doing diddlysquat in 1940.So in 1940 - who was the senior partner?This is disrespectful to the survivors and the relatives of those who lost their lives at that time.There may be Hollywood movies which fog the facts but there are many history books which will give you a little more insight.This HYS has nothing whatever to do with Iraq. In 60 years' time we may well be arguing that we had nothing to do with that at all, as more people come forward claiming that it was advised to be an illegal war, but somehow their advice was brushed under the carpet. Sat 24 Jul 2010 06:31:01 GMT+1 cl123456 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=94#comment863 One misquote or slip-up will not rewrite history by itself as long as we have documentary evidence of what has happened in the past. Misquotes certainly show ones ignorance however as without history or a clear understanding of it we are all simply swimming in a dark sea of ignorance with no clear direction of the future. Right or wrong History always points us in the proper direction--forward. Sat 24 Jul 2010 06:13:56 GMT+1 Pat Burger http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=94#comment862 Icebloo wrote: "It amazes me how many British people are unaware the Americans only "helped" us because we paid them. People in the United States also think their government stepped in because of Pearl Harbour when in fact their government only stepped in to make money out of the war."Mentally picturing the scared young men, British, American, and Canadian, standing in landing craft on their way to their death on Omaha Beach, always makes me want to mash my fist into the writer's pasty British face after reading these and similar comments. Particularly if they knew they would be ridiculed ever after by the unworthy descendants of the people they were fighting for. Sat 24 Jul 2010 05:55:52 GMT+1 Graphis http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=94#comment861 While anyone can make "mistakes", it's important to remember that the Prime Minister should be seen not to. He is surrounded by hundreds of "advisors" after all. Are they all under 30? Blimey, even I, born well after the war (1960) know the basic facts about it. More importantly though, why should the UK ever be the "junior partner" to the USA, simply because our land mass covers a smaller area than theirs, or their population is greater? The fact we once fought against them is irrelevant: we are their motherland, giving them their history, original founders, and language. It is this servile and grovelling attitude that got Blair labelled as America's 'poodle', and it's just ruined any international reputation that Cameron might have aspired to. And just to be clear, we shouldn't be their "senior partner" either: "partner" will suffice. Sat 24 Jul 2010 04:41:00 GMT+1 Samson D http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=94#comment860 I like David Cameron. It seems to me he is an honest guy who tells the truth. Come on guys, Britain was for sure a junior partner during the Second World War. How come we forgot that just recently Britain was a junior partner(again) to topple Sadam Hussein's regime. Well, sixty years from now you may argue that Britain was not a junior partner in toppling the sadam's government. Please just leave this man alone. David Cameron has a spine unlike his predecessors, so get over it. Sat 24 Jul 2010 03:55:49 GMT+1 Peter Dewsnap http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=94#comment859 825. At 7:16pm on 23 Jul 2010, Rather_Be_Cycling wrote:"820. At 6:32pm on 23 Jul 2010, justin de shed wrote:The Battle of Britain is what really decided the outcome of the war, as everyone apart from the Yanks seem to understand."Yes it did, I was there and remember. It stopped the Nazis in their tracks while the rest of Britain and the Commonwealth were building their forces. Though the US officially were forced into the war by Japan and Germany at the end of 1941, their physical presence was not seen until 1943 by which time the British had destroyed Rommel, removed the Italians from North Africa and were pushing the Japanese out of Burma (without the help of Errol Flynn). The Royal Navy had destroyed the Bismarck and British forces had destroyed the Terpitz plus many other victories. I really believe we would have won that war without America but not without all the supplies they sold us and the valuable efforts of the Russians.Peter D South Carolina Sat 24 Jul 2010 03:25:35 GMT+1 phindrup http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=93#comment858 stevepsandy: you forgot Russia, by far the most important player in this saga. Pat Burger: Regardless of the Battle of Britain, you had already been driven out of Europe and had essentially lost the war, with little hope of recovery, by the time America entered in December 1941.The US? Johnny come late — and in the mopping up. No the Yanks think that they ‘won’ the war. Too much Hollywood syndrome!(The only war that we can be fairly certain that the US ‘won’ is the civil war.) Sat 24 Jul 2010 02:59:58 GMT+1 Scott0962 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=93#comment857 It is important to get the facts right as the controversy over Mr. Cameron's remarks clearly demonstrates. While American supplies and war materiel were useful in keeping Britain going when it was struggling in 1940 the great campaigns that decided the outcome of the war in Europe had either already been fought without us or would be fought on the eastern front by the Russians. Sure, the U.S. dropped a lot of bombs on Germany which didn't destroy their military production as we had hoped, and our boys did good work in helping liberate western Europe, but the decisive battles in Europe were fought by Britain and Russia and it was British forces that cracked and captured the German codes and gained the strategic advantage over the U-Boat menace. If Mr. Churchill let an American general take overall command at SHAFE it was because he recognized that it was more important to get the Americans on board than to squabble over rank and precedence. (And possibly because he was confident that he could persuade President Roosevelt to go along with him on any really important points.)Had Mr. Cameron spoken of the Pacific campaign then of course it would be a different matter. Sat 24 Jul 2010 02:53:38 GMT+1 Crissis_Chris http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=93#comment856 The entire entry of the USA into WWII feels like a Hollywood make over, Cameron gets it wrong but just look at the journalist comments from our own BBC:“However, the US officially declared war on Germany on 11 December 1941, shortly after Hitler launched hostilities against the US”Germany declared war on the USA on 11 December 1941 it didn’t just launch “hostilities”. The USA had its hand forced so entered the war. How many children today are taught at school today that the USA freely entered the war to help Europe against the Nazi threat? It all a total rewrite of historical fact.It’s the old rule that the victorious write the history. The caveat is that the British may win but just lay back and take it. AKA U571! Sat 24 Jul 2010 02:53:27 GMT+1 Peter Dewsnap http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=93#comment855 850. At 11:52pm on 23 Jul 2010, spida_monkey wrote:The dates was wrong but the point was made. We didn't win the war alone and almost certainly would have lost had the US not entered Sat 24 Jul 2010 02:47:41 GMT+1 Peter Dewsnap http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=93#comment854 776. At 2:45pm on 23 Jul 2010, Tim wrote:The war would have draged on for many years more without the Americans support. But officially we did not have that support untill Dec 1941.O well 5/10 must do better Mr Cameron.Get your facts straight, Tim. Japan, followed by Germany forced the US into the war in Dec 1941. It wasn't until the end of 1942 that the US showed any meaningful presence. What do you think Britain and the Commonwealth were doing in the meantime? sitting on their duffs? Read your history, lad (and learn to spell).P Dewsnap South Carolina Sat 24 Jul 2010 02:42:22 GMT+1 Susan http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=93#comment853 Oops! I'm no historian, though have a great interest in that period of our history. In no way would I describe Britain as a 'junior partner' to an American regarding WWII - especially as their (perpetual) insular view kept them from assisting UK until the Pearl Harbour incident. Cameron's glib comments must have offended everyone involved protecting Britain during that time. Yes - it is important to get the date right, or does he work without a diary; know his birth date; when he became Prime Minister; what day of the week it is ...? Looks more like boot-licking than anything remotely describable as a wholesome speech. He and his staff should read the history books before letting him near an open microphone. Sat 24 Jul 2010 02:04:12 GMT+1 Tillyanne http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=93#comment852 Fritzidog:On behalf of my family especially those military men who have now passed on, thank you.I cannot begin to imagine what is going on in Mr Cameron's head, but he is going to need some very fancy footwork when he gets home. Sat 24 Jul 2010 01:40:10 GMT+1 novalidopinion http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=93#comment851 My Dad was in the war.He always said that we defeated Hitler in 1940, only to be beaten by the Americans in 1945.As a kid,one of the first news stories I really understood was the Suez crisis.It has been obvious to me since childhood that Washington excerts enormous power over this country and that the power is not just economic but military and cultural as well.I have seen this whole nation bend over backwards to be like America, to lick Americas boots, to lap up it's glamour,it's 'cool',it's technology,it's fast food and fizzy drinks, it's wealth and power.Mother's generation were completely infatuated.Brits were stuffy, quaint, thick or conniving.Compared to the Yanks we are nobodies was the cultural mantra of the 50's, 60's, 70's 80's 90's but no one would admit it.There were even times when we appeared to be setting the musical, artistic and fashion trends but you still had to "make it in the States", to be anything.At least Cameron has been brave, or foolish enough, to let the cat out of the bag and spell it out.Tony B-liar acted it out in the flesh but denied it in his slimey rhetoric.The fact is, that what used to be called Great Britain is now the UK (to sound more like USA), nominally a member of the EU but in reality an overseas satellite and vassal state of America.....and we did it to ourselves, with love. Sat 24 Jul 2010 00:13:20 GMT+1 cynicallyn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=93#comment850 Do you not think, that maybe most of us are more angrier because he referred to our country as "Junior". It wasn't just a humiliating label, but if that weren't enough it could also be seen as grossly disrespectful to all the British that were fighting at that time. David Cameron as 'The' British Prime Minister, should display more pride in his heritage. Fri 23 Jul 2010 23:10:33 GMT+1 spida_monkey http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=92#comment849 The dates was wrong but the point was made. We didn't win the war alone and almost certainly would have lost had the US not entered. The significance of that Allied partnership should not, however, be lost: we share common values and have done so for many, many years - and those values are worth fighting for. If it's Nazi Germany, Axis Japan, Saddam's Iraq or Taliban Afghanistan - the affront to democracy and the rights of the Nation State are the same. Don't let a slight slip up alter the meaning of a very important message. Fri 23 Jul 2010 22:52:05 GMT+1 Jan-Ann http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=92#comment848 Reading comments here, there are so many interpretations of who did what when, that I don't know if he could 'get history right'. I wasn't there and we all like to think that we where the ones who win any fight. What makes me, umm, sad, is how blatently he is sucking up to Obama. Do we have to be Dave Smithers to Obama Burns? Fri 23 Jul 2010 22:18:07 GMT+1 john http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=92#comment847 cameron has shown he excels at being the village idiotto disrepect the true hero's of england show that all he wants is to be in number 10 forgetting the hero's from the first and secound world war, makes nick griffin sound like a man to respect "" Fri 23 Jul 2010 22:07:18 GMT+1 star http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=92#comment846 i have always been doubt full about history and these comments on this page made it very clear to me that history is all rubbish rather more than rubbish,1945 just 65 years ago when camera was there vedio recording was availble,people are still witness to the war,but still people believe in very different facts,it becomes very obvious nothing is true in the historycause we are talking about an era where the facts could be recorded and has been recorded, but we believe in different facts the truth for A is different to truth for Bcan we say what happened 200 years ago is true and than 2000 years agoi dont dout it has become certain to me i hope i have made my point clearwith my history like english Fri 23 Jul 2010 21:47:21 GMT+1 SR from EG http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=92#comment845 How much you want to make of it is hard to say. It was an elementary mistake and would seem to be guided by wanting to please Obama which is a complete waste of time. The guy is a typical American politician all style and no substance. Lok how he sucked up the Amercian people over British Petroleum. Cameron's education and back ground suggest that he should have been aware that we didn't stand alone we had the Commonwealth with us but we were the senior partner at that time. Glad the Americans joined us they made the war shorter. One other historical correction the Russians weren't on our side in 1940 Stalin and Hitler had signed a treaty it wasn't until 1941 when hitler invaded Russia that the treaty was broken. Back to Cameron we don't want another Tony Blair one per century is enough. Fri 23 Jul 2010 21:31:22 GMT+1 forclarification http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=92#comment844 Do you think there's a German HYS where contributors from the Axis nations are arguing about who was the senior or junior partner?Flipping eck, we were all on the same side and defeated a tyrant. Do you think the many men and women who gave their lives in the war are looking down on this 'discussion' with pride? The question was about the importance of getting historical facts right, not an invitation to dissect WW2 Fri 23 Jul 2010 21:12:36 GMT+1 Elen http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=92#comment843 Yes it does matter. His mistake shows he (again) opens his mouth before engaging his brain. It will alienate troops ... it's alienating me and I'm not one! He has staff to research facts for him and he was educated at what is supposed to be a good school - don't they teach history there any more, or was he asleep during the lessons?Of course it's important to remember historical dates if you're going to quote them, especially if you're always sounding off about the mistakes of others. You look such a pratt when you don't - as he does now. And you give offence, politicians can't afford to do that and if they don't care then do we want them?Of course it matters that he got his facts wrong whatever his theme was. I shows ignorance. If he thinks it doesn't matter that shows arrogance. neither are qulities we need in a leader.Britain was not junior partner to the US in WWII and I certainly don't want to be junior partner to the US now. They also seem to open their mouths without engaging their brains ... a very dangerous habit, look at the mess we're in because of the misinformation (much of it deliberate) we were given about Iraq. Afghanistan? And then what? Fri 23 Jul 2010 20:48:25 GMT+1 ian mccallum http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=92#comment842 This man we call prime minister is becoming a bit of an embarrassment. He is being totally disrespectful to anyone in this country who suffered in anyway during and after the second world war. Perhaps he wants to make the same statement to the berieved families of the brave servicement in the present Afghan conflict. Fri 23 Jul 2010 20:37:36 GMT+1 Jeff Martin http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=92#comment841 I'm sure Winnie would have something to say about it.. Fri 23 Jul 2010 20:33:22 GMT+1 Billythefirst http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=92#comment840 This post has been Removed Fri 23 Jul 2010 20:24:41 GMT+1 jocksageordie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=91#comment839 History is vitally important, especially the truly world changing stuff where your nation vitually saved the world by standing alone against the then most efficient war machine in the world.To do one of 2 things; either (a) get it badly wrong, would be terrible, or (b)kiss ass and crawl for favour, would be unforgivible.Perhaps we need a public enquiry to decide which is most apt. Fri 23 Jul 2010 20:23:55 GMT+1 Upemall http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=91#comment838 Cameron really blotted his copybook over this! One would have thought that an expensive education would include at least the most basic Modern History course. Seems that ignorance is pervasive wherever you're educated in England! Fri 23 Jul 2010 20:02:39 GMT+1 Robert Gomez http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=91#comment837 834. At 8:16pm on 23 Jul 2010, briblogg wrote:Of course it is important to get a fact such as this right. Too many US films portray (and many US citizens firmly believe) that they came to save the world and fought the Nazis single-handedly when in fact they joined the struggle years after everyone in Europe had lost millions of men and the Nazis had run rife.-----------I'm sure that you can back-up your claim that many in the US believe that they single-handedly won WWII, right? Yours is a little comment from a little mind.Why is it a surprise that American war films typically portray American involvement in WWII? Americans want to watch America's actions in such films. They make movies that will sell, not to tell a story. It's a business decision and they obviously feel that this is what will sell. Fri 23 Jul 2010 20:01:27 GMT+1 AB Online http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=91#comment836 All I can say is Mr. Cameron is a bigger idiot than I first thought. And I should think that Winston Churchill is turning in his grave. Cameron and his speech writers should be ashamed of themselves. Obviously they've learned their history from Hollywood! Fri 23 Jul 2010 19:48:49 GMT+1 Wicked_Witch_of_the_West_Coast http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=91#comment835 [343. At 4:20pm on 22 Jul 2010, shawnbb wrote:While the American "we saved your butts in WWII" is obnoxious, the constant diminishing of our role is just as bad. Look at yourselves in the mirror and be honest. Brits have a huge chip on their shoulders and it's really, REALLY pathetic and weak. The facts are, we didn't enter WWII until we were threatened and you would have fallen without us. Be honest and thank us.]We beggared our country and our Empire to fight the Nazis. We paid a fortune for your help, and constantly have 'we saved your butts' thrown in our faces. And you want *thanks*??Don't get me wrong - I have unending respect for the men (and women) of the many nations who fought with us. I'd be happy to thank them. I will not thank the politicians of an 'ally' who used our desperation to effectively destroy our Empire. Nor the numpties who come on here like their natural heirs, spouting their 'saved your butt' rubbish. You want to hear thanks, you send your veterans over, and let us thank the people who really deserve it. They'll be the ones who know what they did and don't feel it necessary to spout garbage about it every time WWII is mentioned! Fri 23 Jul 2010 19:31:02 GMT+1 Rather_Be_Cycling http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=91#comment834 828. At 7:39pm on 23 Jul 2010, John_Bull wrote:"Next, you dismissal of Poland as a "20 year old state” raises two other points. First, your lack of knowledge of European history as it pertains to the Poles. Research suggested. Second, the implication, that it was not worth defending. The notion that a peoples' right to exist as a nation is proportional to the age of that nation seems to resonate with "world view" of someone at the very centre of this discussion. Further, it also has some rather interesting implications for the USA."But Poland as a modern state dates from 1919. Fact. And it was an artificially drawn state whose borders contained large ethnic German and other minorities. Fact. And that it, in fact, divided Germany from East Prussia. Fact. That the notion of a "corridor" linking Danzig was not some delusional dream of Adolf Hitler, it was being rationally and reasonably dicussed as a bona fide solution especially after Poland built Gdynia as an alternate deep-water Baltic port. And that Poland had a treaty with Germany. And was seen as a useful buffer between Germany and the USSR. Fact. Was Hitler going to invade Poland eventually? Probably. Was his invasion in September and treaty with the USSR that August precipitated by the British-French Defense pact with Poland. Yes. Was Poland "worth defending"? Yes but no more than Czechoslovakia. And did the British and the French have any reasonable means (or will) of actually defending Poland from German attack. No. And if it did, why didn't they? Or are British defense treaties with other countries just "gestures" of goodwill and intent? This one sure was. Not very comforting with Stukas overhead. In the end, it was Poland that wound up helping Britain, their pilots in the RAF during the Battle of Britain had the highest "kill" ratio of the entire engagement. Fri 23 Jul 2010 19:24:11 GMT+1 briblogg http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=91#comment833 Of course it is important to get a fact such as this right. Too many US films portray (and many US citizens firmly believe) that they came to save the world and fought the Nazis single-handedly when in fact they joined the struggle years after everyone in Europe had lost millions of men and the Nazis had run rife. It was only when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour and there was a vested interest that the USA deigned to join in. It was greatly welcomed and it should be pointed out that many many brave USA soldiers also lost their lives in the fights that ensued.But to have our Prime Minister make such an elimentary error on US soil when he should be pointing out the facts makes me very angry and deeply sad. I am truly ashamed. Fri 23 Jul 2010 19:16:55 GMT+1 donald johnson http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=91#comment832 Poor Dav C. got it wrong again whilst grovelling to the Americans, I pity the Bullingdon boy, him and Boris make a good pair unless I'm bein unfair to Boris. The American senate have made a big mistake once again asking Jack Straw to attend a witch hunt Hearing, Can we invite George Bush over to the Chilton inquiry to explain why he deemed it appropiate to start a war ? methinks war crimes are inorder for both him and Mr Blair However I'm being naughty we all know Mr Bush and his gang went to war for Iraq oil. Fri 23 Jul 2010 19:07:33 GMT+1 newageoracle http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=91#comment831 The PM made a mistake by referring to 1940 when he really meant WW2. I understand what he was saying, most (if not all) of his audience understood the message he wanted to put across and empathised with it, the vast majority of Americans knew what he was saying to them...acknowledging the leading role of the United States military, industrial and economic power in defeating Nazi Germany but also taking pride in Britain's role in denying Hitler an early victory in the war and, thereby, ensuring his eventual downfall. Only the nit pickers would bother to pickup and make such an issue out of it. Like the sad people who criticised the movie "Saving Private Ryan"...the story of a group of American soldiers...because the depiction of Omaha Beach didn't show any British soldiers!! The media watchers really need to get a life in this country. Fri 23 Jul 2010 19:02:23 GMT+1 krokodil http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=90#comment830 44md34 wrote:ITS FUNNY ABOUT SOME OF THE COMMENTS ON HERE.YOU GUYS TURN SOMETHING YOUR PRIME MINISTER SAID INTO BASHING THE UNITED STATES.BUT I GUESS CAMERON COULD OF PHRASED IT ANOTHER WAY JUST LIKE WHEN OBAMA SAID BRITISH PETROLEUM INSTED OF BP.WHICH HE SHOULD NOT OF SAID.TELL YOU THE TRUTH I SEEN THE INTERVIEW AND I LIKE DAVID CAMERON HE SEEMS LIKE A GOOD GUY EVEN THOUGH HE MADE A MISTAKE.-------------------------This place is full of anti American lefties! welcome to HYS lol Fri 23 Jul 2010 18:59:13 GMT+1 krokodil http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=90#comment829 justin de shed wrote:The Battle of Britain is what really decided the outcome of the war, as everyone apart from the Yanks seem to understand.Out of around 3000 Hurricane and Spitfire pilots who took part, 2500 were British, the remainder were from the Commonwealth and Poland.Total USA contribution was 9 yes 9 pilots.NOW guess who the junior partner was.--------------------------------------------------------------------OK...I am British, and posted this theme on another topic....here goes again.The much lauded "battle of Britain" was a small event with limited outcome when taken in context of the war. Not to take anything away from the brave people who fought in it. It was a battle which produced a stalemate in the skies and had little effect on the war in Europe. Germany was not able or inclined to invade Britain at any stage (Operation sealion was little more than a paper exercise and was not taken seriously by the German high command.), the war was turning towards the East. Unfortunately british history teaching tends to neglect the war Russia fought with the Germans....Stalingrad, Kursk, Leningrad, Moscow, kharkov etc was where the Germans were smashed and defeated. Even D-Day was only possible by the fact that the vast majority of the German forces were engaged on the eastern front.As for the Americans arriving "late", this is not really true....what did our war against Germany, which WE declared, on behalf of Poland have to do with America? America defeated the Japanese in the Pacific...a theatre of the war Britain had very limited involvement with. In short, America and Russia did the loins share of the fighting and a few on here should remember that before throwing glib jibes about the "yanks". Fri 23 Jul 2010 18:57:53 GMT+1 RitaKleppmann http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=90#comment828 David Camerson´s choice of phrase was probably unwise. While the USA may have contributed more manpower and weapon-power than Britain, it wasn´t threatened with invasion. Therefore the two countries are not directly comparable. Fri 23 Jul 2010 18:49:07 GMT+1 John_Bull http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=90#comment827 580. At 10:25pm on 22 Jul 2010, Rather_Be_Cycling wrote:569. At 9:43pm on 22 Jul 2010, John_Bull wrote:"Your knowledge of this subject is superficial at best. Britain didn't actually do anything to help Poland in the end, that's true. However, the object of the pact was that of a deterrent, a deterrent that Hitler ultimately ignored. Moreover, by the time that Britain was in a position to do anything, Poland had long since been split into two."Thanks for agreeing with me.... Britain's defense treaty with Poland was ill-advised and useless... it wasn't a deterrent, it didn't aid Poland and all it did was precipitate a global war on Hitler's timetable, not yours. "To call this a minor squabble though, that Britain then turned into a Global conflict, demonstrates how little insight you really have. Britain had nothing to gain by declaring war on Germany and everything to loose. Whether you recognise it or not, by taking this action, Britain was actually standing up for the very ideals that your ignorant nation thinks is its, "Manifest Destiny" to promote. "Nonsense. Since when was it's Britain's "Manifest Destiny" to "defend" (how no one ever even said) a European country that was barely 20 years old? Prior to 1907, Britain's "Manifest Destiny" since Waterloo was specifically to avoid binding treaties with specific European nations and play, quite effectively, the powers against themselves. That gave Europe 100 years of Peace. Britain's blundering "diplomacy" in 1919-39 ensured it would have war and it cost you your Empire and world power status. And you wound up abandoning Poland in the end to boot.======================================================================I see that you have at least tried to introduce some facts into this contribution, but unfortunately the huge gaps in your knowledge, together with your inadequate reasoning have produced some rather poor conclusions.First, as I think has already been pointed out to you, Hitler was going to invade Eastern Europe no matter what, you only need a basic understanding of Mein kampf, to realise that. As such, your conclusion that poor British diplomacy precipitated his actions is absurd.Next, you dismissal of Poland as a "20 year old state” raises two other points. First, your lack of knowledge of European history as it pertains to the Poles. Research suggested. Second, the implication, that it was not worth defending. The notion that a peoples' right to exist as a nation is proportional to the age of that nation seems to resonate with "world view" of someone at the very centre of this discussion. Further, it also has some rather interesting implications for the USA.Finally, you have at least shown some insight into British Foreign Policy imperatives after Waterloo, but you have used this to make the wrong point. Britain didn't see itself as having a Manifest Destiny; we left delusional nonsense like that for the Americans to pursue.What Britain did do though, was stand up to a Bully that it could have walked away from, and in so doing, DID stand up for freedom and democracy and not just its own. Perhaps you might want to consider as to which nation would be the Hyperpower now, had Germany been given the "free hand in the East" that it requested, in return for peace with Britain in 1940. Fri 23 Jul 2010 18:39:21 GMT+1 IntegrityMatters2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=90#comment826 This American believes that Mr Cameron is severely in error.It is pretty clear to me that Britain/Commonwealth was the senior partner until late '43 or early '44 - at the time the US put its foot down on the timing and location of Overlord. At that point, perhaps, Britain became the junior partner in the West.While yes, more British (for simplicity) troops did land on D-Day itself, those numbers were rectified very quickly indeed. All the while supplying everyone who needed it (don't forget the Chinese) and carrying the vast majority of the burden beating back the Japanese. Please don't take offence, Aussies & New Zealanders, I'm aware of your efforts and sacrifices and that it now looks quite likely that WE torpedoed your Canberra at Savo. And I don't mean the scuttling, we did that, too. The logistics statement is true nevertheless.The Russians won the war. We helped - a lot. As did the British, Commonwealth, and everyone else who participated.I have one Uncle who was in Normandy (although not, I think, on D-Day), one who was with Patton until killed and buried in Lorraine, my father served on a carrier in the Pacific and my father in law flew bombers and transport aircraft in the Pacific. I am grateful for all of their sacrifices, as I am for all who sacrificed.But Mr. Cameron is still wrong. Fri 23 Jul 2010 18:27:15 GMT+1 mildenhalljohn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=90#comment825 It is hardly a complement to Mr Camerons very expensive education that he made this rather simple mistake. However, we are all human, and we all make mistakes. What does make Brits grind their teeth is the deliberate rewritting of history by Hollywood. Fri 23 Jul 2010 18:23:55 GMT+1 Rather_Be_Cycling http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=90#comment824 "820. At 6:32pm on 23 Jul 2010, justin de shed wrote:The Battle of Britain is what really decided the outcome of the war, as everyone apart from the Yanks seem to understand."Let see, a global war that lasted from 1939-45, involved scores of nations, 100s of millions of troops, killed 50-60 millions, took place on practically every ocean and sea.. and the Battle of Britain, fought a year after the outbreak of war, decided the whole thing?Wow.And they call Americans self-centred!Shame no one told the Russians, the Chinese, the Italians, the Germans and we Yanks.. we could have sat the whole thing out after October 1940.You Brits need to share more. Fri 23 Jul 2010 18:16:39 GMT+1 Robert Gomez http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=90#comment823 Few posting here (including myself) were even alive at the time of the war and even fewer (if any) actually fought in the conflict. I wonder what those who fought would say if they read through these pathetic comments. Fri 23 Jul 2010 18:06:19 GMT+1 voice_germany http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=90#comment822 You ask here if it is important to remember historic dates and I would say yes, but not only, as the present and future situation should also be taken into consideration.I would say it is not true to claim the UK is just a "junior" partner in 1940, in an early stage of the war because it devalues the role of the UK that stood clearly against Nazi Germany when Churchill became PM in 1940. I think Mr Cameron just wanted to point out the relationship between the US and UK which I think are best decribed in the words of Churchill: "There is only one thing worse than fighting with allies, and Churchill travelled to the US because he knew he necessarily needed the US as an ally, but I wouldn´t speak of a "junior" partnership because the UK declared war on Germany in 1939, the US as you mentioned much later.But let me come back what I said firstly - what is more important here is the present situation and the outlook to the future in our times!Germany is no more a hostile dictatorship.In Churchills word: "But I leave the past, and I leave the present. It is to the future that we must turn our gaze."A wise and usefule statement! Fri 23 Jul 2010 18:03:58 GMT+1 Semisatanic http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=89#comment821 I didn't vote for him!Did you????He told us what we wanted but none of us voted for it.His opinion is very different from mine and the rest who trusted democracy.He doesn't speak for me! Fri 23 Jul 2010 17:39:52 GMT+1 Alex Worrall http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=89#comment820 I'm more concerned as to why the person interviewing him did not check Cameron's claim that we were a junior player in WWII. This interviewer did not care about what Cameron had to say, he was just intent on finding and capitalising a mistake. Before I read any of the comments I knew the haters were gonna hate. Gordon Brown would have been forgiven for this. Just goes to show how bias is everywhere. Any excuse to make the public forget the embarrassment that was Blair. Fri 23 Jul 2010 17:33:28 GMT+1 justin de shed http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=89#comment819 The Battle of Britain is what really decided the outcome of the war, as everyone apart from the Yanks seem to understand.Out of around 3000 Hurricane and Spitfire pilots who took part, 2500 were British, the remainder were from the Commonwealth and Poland.Total USA contribution was 9 yes 9 pilots.NOW guess who the junior partner was. Fri 23 Jul 2010 17:32:45 GMT+1 44md34 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=89#comment818 ITS FUNNY ABOUT SOME OF THE COMMENTS ON HERE.YOU GUYS TURN SOMETHING YOUR PRIME MINISTER SAID INTO BASHING THE UNITED STATES.BUT I GUESS CAMERON COULD OF PHRASED IT ANOTHER WAY JUST LIKE WHEN OBAMA SAID BRITISH PETROLEUM INSTED OF BP.WHICH HE SHOULD NOT OF SAID.TELL YOU THE TRUTH I SEEN THE INTERVIEW AND I LIKE DAVID CAMERON HE SEEMS LIKE A GOOD GUY EVEN THOUGH HE MADE A MISTAKE. Fri 23 Jul 2010 17:17:35 GMT+1 Norman Brooke http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=89#comment817 David Cameron is Rightwing that is fact. He is an wicked Thatcherite with a vision of destroying that which British soldiers voted for in 1945 ie a Welfare system acting as a safety net for those on hard times. Public services are to be destroyed and the Health service demoralised prior to privatisation. This evil party have always hated what was achieved after the War.In 1945 we were liberated from the horror of Nazism but what will liberate us from the moral corruption and evil that David Cameron stands for today? He is privilage and mega Wealth and if he was back in 1945, our brave soldiers would reject him as they rejected Churchill's 30s style poverty.What David Cameron says on about anything is becomming irrelevant because he does not live in the real world but in a dangerous fantasy world.Churchill was a great man during the War, brilliant in the 30s for warning us against Hitler while the evil tory media and party admired him. Churchill spoke about a 'New Dark age' Cameron is part of this new Dark age also, he wants to come out of the human rights act and allow Britain to become a slave nation where people are mere commodities to bring more and more and more profit to him...the Rich.That is Tory fascism. The conservative Party ARE the new Fascists and deniars of humanity. The verminous tory media is like reading scripts from Nazi newspapers, thier victims are not jews or communists, but the poor and vulnerable....or anyone who is simply different.THE TORIES ARE TODAY'S EXTREMITS, THEY GET MORE AND MORE EXTREME BY THE DAY.All the good our soldiers fought for is being systematically destroyed by perverts in Rightwing think tanks...eagerly taken up by this evil beast, David Cameron. Fri 23 Jul 2010 17:13:42 GMT+1 John_Bull http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=89#comment816 731. At 12:17pm on 23 Jul 2010, John Wright wrote:In #495 John_Bull wrote:The UK is and was during WWII, the junior partner, it’s a fact. And whilst Cameron clumsily failed to recall that this partnership didn’t actually exist at the time of the Battle of Britain, it's also an obvious fact, that preventing a German invasion was not the same as being capable of launching one of our own.The UK alone might have been but forget not that this was before the Empire was dismantled – this process started after WWII was over. So it was the British Empire that faced Germany in 1940, and stood alone after the fall of France, Holland, Belgium etc. That was Winston Churchill’s perspective anyway. There was no one to be junior partners too. As many others have said, America was not yet involved and Russia was allied with the Germans. Neither would be on our side until 1941. Britain was just about bankrupt by then, so despite American neutrality we may not have won the Battle of Britain without American fuel. =================================================================I'm not sure what point your making here. Initially you seem to imply that perhaps the British Empire might have been able to win the war without American help, but then at the end you infer that Britain couldn't even have won the Battle of Britain without American help. You can't have it both ways!I would love to debate WWII in detail, since it's my favourite subject, but all I was trying to do here was clarify the point that Cameron was making.I am not pro-American or anti-American, I'm pro-British. However, the truth of the matter is that WWII was ‘total war’ and was as much about economics as it was about battles. Just to compete in this war, Britain needed mass-produced armaments as much as it did manpower, and the Empire, as a whole simply didn't offer anywhere near the required production capacity, America did. Without America, it is inconceivable that Britain could have sustained a Second Front on mainland Europe. To imply as you do, that Churchill did not believe this, is simply wrong, he knew it from the outset.Cameron's gaffe was as I stated, to imply that the alliance with the USA was already in place during 1940 and that we wouldn't have won the Battle of Britain, without them, which is obviously not true.That aside, to imply anything other than, Britain was the junior partner from circa 1943 onwards, would also be untrue. You just simply have to assess the manpower and the equipment deployed in Operation Overlord to understand this. Fri 23 Jul 2010 17:08:58 GMT+1 Pause for thought http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=89#comment815 Yes it matters that the historic facts are right, but I doubt that President Obama was impressed by such toady comments, even if they had been accurate. So why should we be?It is a disgrace for a head of government to belittle his own nation in the way that Cameron has - it shows poor judgement and a failure of leadership. Fri 23 Jul 2010 17:03:26 GMT+1 Dave666 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=89#comment814 What an excelent advertisement for our country or does it reflect the poor qualities of the foreign office briefs? A department renown for its myopic anti British Views. Fri 23 Jul 2010 16:55:42 GMT+1 Rightdownthedrain http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/is_it_important_to_get_your_fa.html?page=89#comment813 1 It's incredible hypocrisy on the part of many Cameron apologists who say it will all blow over, doesn't matter, etc, when they would have been screaming with outrage at any such utterance from the Late GB.2 I thought Cameron promised a stance of firm but fair equality towards the USA, not fawning submission. He is supposed to be representing the dignity of the UK, after all.3 Regardless of the parts their countries played in WW2, can anyone seriously imagine the French President or German Chancellor saying anything to the effect that their countries were ever or will ever be junior partners to the USA? If any French President ever met up with the Holy Trinity, he would make it quite clear which ones were the junior partners. Fri 23 Jul 2010 16:37:17 GMT+1