Comments for en-gb 30 Mon 22 Sep 2014 19:37:39 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at Leviticus 236. At 08:06am on 24 Jun 2010, Graphis wrote:Interesting dichotomy here:When the England football team do badly, people say it's not the manager's fault, but the 'over-paid prima donnas' that are the players not doing their job well enough.But when the NHS, benefits system, social care, or any other public sector body, performs badly, people say it's not the front-line staff's fault, but the 'over-paid' managers messing things up!Seems to me you're all just blaming whoever is paid the most for the poor performance of the team, whatever line of work they're in, and regardless of the real reasons, which may be myriad.So is this a natural human tendency: look for the highest-paid, and blame him/her? And what does this say about us? Is it merely envy of higher salaries?I think it says we expect the people being paid the most to be the most accountable- and if they aren't the most accountable they shouldn't be paid so much!Quite a reasonable expectation if you ask me! Thu 24 Jun 2010 09:51:16 GMT+1 Graphis Interesting dichotomy here:When the England football team do badly, people say it's not the manager's fault, but the 'over-paid prima donnas' that are the players not doing their job well enough.But when the NHS, benefits system, social care, or any other public sector body, performs badly, people say it's not the front-line staff's fault, but the 'over-paid' managers messing things up!Seems to me you're all just blaming whoever is paid the most for the poor performance of the team, whatever line of work they're in, and regardless of the real reasons, which may be myriad.So is this a natural human tendency: look for the highest-paid, and blame him/her? And what does this say about us? Is it merely envy of higher salaries? Thu 24 Jun 2010 07:06:37 GMT+1 mocambique1 constructive critism is fine, that is done on a one to one basis, works both ways. yet, there is a boundary that once crossed spells the end. who really needs john terry, put the words in the mouth if one wants to be a critic, BBC, otherwise, shut up Thu 24 Jun 2010 06:24:27 GMT+1 Nicola Courtney I think both teams are behaving like a bunch of kindergarten brats. Disgraceful. On the other hand, their behaviour will be their downfall. Neither team deserves to win. Thu 24 Jun 2010 04:36:01 GMT+1 Marc There may have been a row between the English manager and a certain player of the Three Lions but they won today and put it behind them. It's all good because they move on to the knockout round against Germany and will be a better team because of team spirit and team play. The American team is where it is because of team spirit. Never say die and keep fighting. France had none of these qualities and so they were eliminated. Go U.S.A. and Go Three Lions !!!! The manager's job is to make the needed adjustments to give the team the best chance to win. It's either do or die and go home now . Let the party continue ! Thu 24 Jun 2010 00:31:29 GMT+1 Anon_Mind Who cares about a cotary of overpaid prima donna's cry about? Just shut your mouths and get on with your sporting activities which pay you very handsomely. Thu 24 Jun 2010 00:06:58 GMT+1 Libmeister Should a team criticise it's managers YES if they're right. Sure they're overpaid but that doesn't automatically make everything they have to say wrong. I fail to see how the French team was in anyway selfish by sticking up for a team mate. If they were self-obsessed they'd have let him be sent home without a backward look but they stuck together AS A TEAM. That is what they're supposed to be. And if they're manager is making them sue an unfamiliar playing strategy and treating them badly they have the right to say so. From what I hear Capello is a bit of a control freak and if the players can;t wind down after a game and are bored stupid that will have a knock on effect. Being forced to sit in a hotel room is still boring no matter how fancy the hotel is, the TV can only keep you entertained for so long. Maybe the players aren't used to being told no but you know what, neither is Capello. Wed 23 Jun 2010 23:20:17 GMT+1 Roberttrebor Not in public, it's the same with McChrystal he had to go..... Wed 23 Jun 2010 22:15:18 GMT+1 chrisk50 When all the team say "I would work for that person any day" you know that they are a good manager. I remember working for a large organisation, the general manager was very firm but fair and new everybody. He moved on to another company and invited the workshop for a drink in his local pub, over 400 people turned up, and he did buy a lot of drinks as well. But that was not the reason people went, it was respect for a good leader/manager.Remember 95% of all managers cannot manage - that is worldwide. Wed 23 Jun 2010 20:51:46 GMT+1 chrisk50 I don't think any others will, I hear the French team had to fly back economy, and ready for a big slapping when they get home. Wed 23 Jun 2010 20:40:36 GMT+1 RTFishall What's all this about football?Are people talking about eleven men kicking a substitute pig's bladder against eleven others? Wed 23 Jun 2010 20:25:20 GMT+1 buckaroobanzai Of course they should; but only one-on-one and privately. Absolutely NOT in the media, who are just like sharks and looking for fresh blood! Wed 23 Jun 2010 19:59:00 GMT+1 inherent of course;but not in public Wed 23 Jun 2010 18:53:13 GMT+1 GK No. Not in public. Criticising the manager comes last in the list of a player's accountability to the team. If he can't stand shoulder to shoulder within his team, I doubt he could see a small gap at the opposition to score through. Wed 23 Jun 2010 18:52:58 GMT+1 haarp What I don't understand is why anyone on this planet gives two hoots about any of this malarkey? Sorry, folks, I've tried watching footie matches in the past (and indeed suffered a whole 20 minutes of a match in this world cup) and I still don't get it. What on Earth is the attraction in watching 20 blokes race around after what amounts to a cows bladder in a field? If anyone can explain to me what it is that I'm missing I'd love to know because I am genuinely puzzled by the seeming mass euphoria/misery this sport seems to cause in its adherants. Wed 23 Jun 2010 18:15:43 GMT+1 chrislabiff Our "teams" do not dare criticise managers for fear of retribution.The laziest/most incapable go far. Stuff it, I'm gone! Wed 23 Jun 2010 18:13:41 GMT+1 Martin Swift Lets face it there are many Managers/Coaches that end up with the sack thanks to what players may say or not do on the pitch, in training and in the limelight of the media...many simply find themselves in a position of being able to move that player on before the situation gets worse...Too many players receive ridiculous amounts of money...Rooney may be a good player, but I wouldn't pay him what he gets or other players like him whatever their nationality or whatever club they play for..As far as France are concerned...that organisation would have a set way of dealing with player step out of line...he was asked to apologise for his remarks...he refused and was sent home...he paid the price...just like a player does when they get sent off...But the biggest problem is that they get too big for their boots and being a former local football referee when I lived in South Yorkshire; I remember a comical story told by John Key a former League ref...he was refereeing Man Utd when Bryan Robson was captain and also England captain...Robson went down in the area and John gave a Corner to Man Utd and Robson's shouting for a penalty, John sticks to his decision and Robson asks: 'Ref, do you know who I am?'...John then tells Gordon Strachan what Robson has said and goes into position for the corner...Strachan says to Robson very slowly : 'You...are...Bryan Robson...captain of'Robson's reply can not be posted here...but he wasn't a happy bunny!!! Wed 23 Jun 2010 18:10:27 GMT+1 Imatroll99 Team spirit is essential in any business and even more so in sport. I get the sense that "Brat Pack" footballers have lost the plot and are a law unto themselves. This, I believe, is the start of the meltdown for the professional football fraternity and not a moment too soon. Wed 23 Jun 2010 16:57:37 GMT+1 10OutOfTen You have to laugh. All this angst over a game of footie. Let me see now, we have disasters and wars happening all over the world and thousands of people are excited about a football game ??? Stop paying these big girls blouses the film star wages they get; give them amateur status and I wonder how many will go and play "the beautiful game" (doesn't that expression make you sick) for their country. Wed 23 Jun 2010 14:50:17 GMT+1 U14368420 This post has been Removed Wed 23 Jun 2010 14:27:23 GMT+1 SSnotbanned When the time is right. If the man is big enough. JT finds out who his friends are. Players need to understand what the coach/manger wants them to do.You don't want a team of sycophants and careerists either.Nor do you want crocked 'stars' on the bench egging you on. Wed 23 Jun 2010 14:19:54 GMT+1 Steve Edwards This post has been Removed Wed 23 Jun 2010 14:17:17 GMT+1 sam The Players are rubbish thay are the ones on the pitch.Five of the team would not sing the national anthem including mr. looney rooney. Wed 23 Jun 2010 13:59:57 GMT+1 Home Rule For England I just wish the media would stop this non stop speculation about the English team. A little while ago the red tops went for John Terry. Now they are complaining about the level of performance of the English team. Give it a rest. Just report on the match please.# 4 'any team are better than England'? Surely you don't include Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland in that statement or are you just talking about those teams which are playing in the World Cup and not those who are usually not good enough to qualify? Wed 23 Jun 2010 13:41:58 GMT+1 pguest It seems that the players will win if possible, and the manager will be resposible for losing. Its a no win situation especially as it is quite obvious thay cannot hear a thing. You should see my wife when the car alarm goes off. She howls with it! 90 minutes of unbelievable noise all at Bb like a mad giant with a bag pipe drone would drive anyone crazy!Perhaps they should play with ear plugs because they cannot hear anyway??Should they have trained under speakers blaring? Wed 23 Jun 2010 13:15:55 GMT+1 John Football completely misses the point about what makes for great management, and I've often wondered why the people appointed to management roles tend to come exclusively from a playing background. That isn't the point of management. England need kicking into shape in areas like team spirit, discipline and personal integrity; that's all about stuff off the ball. Get that right and the rest will follow.Management of national football teams breaks down at the big events because managers aren't equipped with the right skills. You need people from other walks of life to be in there in the role of manager, and get some of the hangers-on paid a fortune to do the football "tactics" - if bootings a ball around between 11 louts can be called tactical.Cutting the pay and conditions of footballers and their so-called management team would also provide a much needed shake-up to the attitude displayed by people who clearly earn too much money, but don't have the skills and experience to handle the big moments. What has happened at the World Cup for England and France is like international companies being allowed to showcase their products on the world stage once every 4 years and falling out over it. Madness. Wed 23 Jun 2010 13:11:06 GMT+1 Stuart The Manager and Team must be on the same page for the team to succeed. The key in international football appears to be passion but you don't need to be a national citizen to have pride in your job. Some of the most effective international players are those who have had to prove their national lineage.As for the diving and cheating going on in this world cup: it's the worst tournament for both poor ballet performance and equally poor refereeing. I've seen poorer diving on an olympic 10m board.Back on topic, there are some things that are not open to discussion within a team: I'm told that I will be in the office at 0900 each day and go home at 1700 in the evening unless I have agreement from my manager - nobody in the office argues about that. Therefore there are some decisions that belong to the manager alone. Experience and specialism means that my comments would be appreciated by my manager and I presume that Fabio would appreciate specifics from the team.In general, whoever carries the can gets to make the decision and in international football it is always the manager who is on the line (unless you are a member of the Columbian goalkeeping trio). I'm up for a wager if anyone cares to join me - given 6 months and no money, I reckon I can put together a team from within the UK (all UK nationals) that will put the England squad to shame (provided the squad remains exactly as it is at the moment. The bet: the entire England squad (incl of management) pay 10% of their income to a charity of my choice if they can't win and I will pay 10% of my earnings for the next 10 years to charities of their choice if my team don't lose (unfortunately in winning the bet the charities will be less funded by a long way). Wed 23 Jun 2010 13:01:47 GMT+1 frankiecrisp UK sportsmen and women have no bottle when it comes to winning in some sports tennis( murray bottles it anytime he gets near a major final, rugby when was the last time any of the home nations won an important match, golf the english players are a joke in the majors they always let leads slip on the final day. football use to be a working class sport and we had bottle if not the skill but its getting like middle class sports like athletics and tennis now where the people either come from very wealthy familys or they are are paid so much there is no hunger. Wed 23 Jun 2010 12:52:29 GMT+1 more_love The over exposure to the media and daily press conferences just fan flames of discontent. There is too much coverage and that means journos are always looking for a story. Better off leaving the team alone until after the game. Wed 23 Jun 2010 12:40:13 GMT+1 Sue Denim 201. At 12:59pm on 23 Jun 2010, chronocompos wrote:"Also, I firmly believe that the English team should have an English manager."Could you name me an English manager with a history of success in the last 10 years who would be a suitable English manager? The closest match I can think of would be Steve McClaren and his spell wasn't exctly glorious. Face reality, the premier league and the influx of foreign names due to relaxed nationality restrictions have led to the demise of the English national team and the number of quality English managers. When you're picking players who can't make their Premier club's first eleven regularly, you know England aren't the side they think they are. Wed 23 Jun 2010 12:33:21 GMT+1 omegapoisonivy 20. At 2:39pm on 21 Jun 2010, Jaker wrote:George Osbourne should have a nice little surprise for the England team (should I call them a team?)when they get home from South Africa, an 80% cut in wages. I mean that would sort out the deficit on it's own. Then the players might come right back down to earth & start playing football again properly.Since most of them have their wages paid by non English clubs...and all of them by Private businesses I am not sure what George Osborne could do. I guess he could dock their England wages...but as I understand it these are fairly low anyway.In respect of whether or not a team should be able to criticise its Manager...of course it should, but it should be constructive, in a private setting and agreed by the team. It would appear that John Terry didn't have the full agreement of the team, and it certainly wasn't private. Maybe they are bored in their camp...and if so I would suggest they go and practice some more !All of that aside...GO ENGLAND!! Wed 23 Jun 2010 12:29:33 GMT+1 Patty As a team member, make constructive criticism by all mean but keep it within the team. I often suspect that players report [or leak] to the media in the hope of money for a story. Wed 23 Jun 2010 12:24:23 GMT+1 Slave to the System - I am not a number 197. At 12:48pm on 23 Jun 2010, zrzavy wrote:Can't grown men worry about anything more important in the world than the best way to kick a plastic ball? Pathetic feeble minded creatures!!Obviously Is it that "time again" love. I am sure you would be happy enjoying "Sex in the city" with your chums, while the "Pathetic feeble minded creatures" are watching the football, you could always finish the house work. Many women enjoy football as well ! Wed 23 Jun 2010 12:20:45 GMT+1 HBrassive The manager/coach of a team can only help lay the foundations on which the team can build to produce the required performance. The England and French players have no-one but themselves to blame for their negative below par performances. Once the players take to the field the managers job is done and the responsibility for actual performance rests soley with the players. The attitude of the players to date does not reflect that of a professional but that of a bunch of overpaid has beens. Niether do the excuses from that geriatric has beens of the pundit legions soften the dire performance. In short for so called professionals there is no excuse for bad performance they are paid to perform which they currently are not. Stop looking for excuses for the failure to perform and perform and earn your fees. Wed 23 Jun 2010 12:18:47 GMT+1 Slave to the System - I am not a number Certainly not when you cant even keep your own trousers on. Seriously John Terry needs to look at how he can justify his £100k per week salary with that appalling performance. Capello should have a stronger approach, telling the team, that if they cant win against Slovakia, they dont deserve to be in the premiership let alone the world cup. Wed 23 Jun 2010 12:14:06 GMT+1 David_L Unfortunately the general public seem to be obsessed with a sport that England (the whole of UK for that matter) are not very good at, and haven't been very good at for the past 30 years or so.The day that England will play world-class football will be the day that the public eye turns away, the media stop bothering and the REAL football players (those with passion for the game, not money) will rise through the ranks and England will become world-class whilst nobody is looking.There are some sports at which the UK are simply unbeatable, but this seems to happen only when the media and public are not obsessed with that sport. Take cycling for example - in France they are absolutely obsessed with it (the Tour De France, the biggest annual sporting event in the world, is like the World Cup every day for 3 weeks every year, famous riders will get mobbed on the street etc.) but it is the British (who generally couldn't care less about cycling) who have been quietly kicking everyone's behinds on the track for the past 3 years or so. Wed 23 Jun 2010 12:11:26 GMT+1 chronocompos Should a team criticise it's manager? In public no. But then, in a proper team the manager is part OF the team, albeit the leader. I'm not into football at all, but it seems obvious to me that the manager should be able to take a player to one side, or pull them off the pitch because they're under performing and explain the situation to them, without them throwing a childish paddy. Similarly the manager should also respect the players enough to be willing to discuss, sensibly, any decision he's made that the players might disagree with. If neither side can come to a sensible consensus of what needs to be done then neither should be in the 'team' in the first place.The problem as far as I can tell without detailed knowledge of either the players or the manager is that they're all prima donnas, think they know best and cannot take criticism constructive or otherwise. People have stated on this thread that they're not paid to play for their country. That may be so, but I've seen David Beckham taking a penalty in the last world cup and he didn't even get it on goal. Frankly, for the money these players are paid at a club that simply isn't good enough. Sorry, uneven penalty spot isn't an excuse. A few years ago I was helping with my sons under 11 team and ALL of them, without exception, could hit the goal from the penalty spot on a rough piece of waste land. The fact that these guys get paid a fortune to play for their respective clubs means to me that they 'should', in fact, HAVE TO BE better than that, pressure etc doesn't come into it, the fact that they're not being paid to play for England doesn't come into it, they're playing for their pride which SHOULD be more important to them than any amount of money, if it isn't then they shouldn't be in the team in the first place. The pay they get from their club SHOULD reflect the calibre of their play. Obviously from what I've seen in successive world cubs is it doesn't. Also, I firmly believe that the English team should have an English manager. Wed 23 Jun 2010 11:59:55 GMT+1 Je_sais_pas_moi So I am living in France at the moment and the REAL story behind the Anelka - Domenech saga is surprising and perhaps not what you think!!!! Wed 23 Jun 2010 11:55:13 GMT+1 ronnie of course they should be able to, being in charge means just that, it does not mean you are correct all the time it means you are in charge, part of the problem in this country and I`am not talking about football here is that there are far to many in buisiness both public and private sector who think that being in charge is the same as being right all the time Wed 23 Jun 2010 11:53:36 GMT+1 frankiecrisp 193. At 12:22pm on 23 Jun 2010, daveliberty wrote:I believe that England should be managed by an English manager, with true passion...........................................................It does not matter where the manager comes from its about time the media and football fans in this country excepts we are now second rate in world football kids don't or are not allowed to play football in the streets or even of the few playing fields left I was in south america (argentina & chile) last year and kids play football everywhere until its dark they are not sat in the house doing homework or playing on play stations we will never have a good football team till we start playing the game again. Wed 23 Jun 2010 11:51:14 GMT+1 zrzavy Can't grown men worry about anything more important in the world than the best way to kick a plastic ball? Pathetic feeble minded creatures!! Wed 23 Jun 2010 11:48:31 GMT+1 paul criticising the manager of any team or organisation isnt really the problem IMO, howver, the manner in which this is done is. firstly, if you or any other members of the team have a problem with the boss, it should be addressed in house in the first instance. washing your linen in private is a recipe for players have come out of this world cup with their reputations tarnished. france in particular have been damaged by 'player power' and england may well come out of this mess with a damaged reputation and minus a coach who brought them through qualifiers without a hair out of place. in my experience, a mutiny is rarely a team event; the weaker lot are usually dragged along by a few influential 'leaders'. it was good to hear that capello laid down the law, he's the boss after all. players will always have debates with the manager, i'd be surprised if they didnt. but dont hold a press conference to discuss a clear the air meeting just prior to the biggest game of their lives. terry's actions were divisive and disruptive. if england lose today or limp out soon, the press will have a field day Wed 23 Jun 2010 11:47:07 GMT+1 Refs need glasses Here's an idea - dump the current useless bunch and their equally useless coach; give the coaches job to the highest placed English Manager in the Premier League and pick a squad of 22 players who have never played for England before. Very good, I'm Scottish but I'm pretty sure the top English manager is Harry Redknap. Man U (Scot) Chelsea (Dutch) Arsenal (French) Liverpool (French, well was)Man C (italian) Villa (Irish) Spurs(English) Birmingham (Scot) Everton (Scot) Not many English managers in the top 10 English clubs. Wed 23 Jun 2010 11:29:24 GMT+1 Buttle Speak out and say your piece, particularly if the manager is a clod with zero experience and zero talent other than reading a teleprompter with some fluency. Oh, I'm referring to Obama and the US army and not the french footie team; oh dear. Wed 23 Jun 2010 11:28:52 GMT+1 daveliberty I believe that England should be managed by an English manager, with true passion. Wed 23 Jun 2010 11:22:10 GMT+1 frankiecrisp Once the players step on the pitch the manager can do very little, Argentina have the best team and the best manager because Maradona does not bother with tactics he just sends out nine attacking players and tells the to score more than the other side all you need for that system is 11 superb players to put on the pitch all singing off the same sheet england do not have 5 great players so that option is no good for england. Wed 23 Jun 2010 11:18:11 GMT+1 Rohit Raj Why cant teams accept the loss as a part of game. Why there is always "ego" association by a win or loss...after all it is a game...when will be become true sportsman ....? Wed 23 Jun 2010 11:07:27 GMT+1 U14368420 This post has been Removed Wed 23 Jun 2010 10:32:58 GMT+1 DibbySpot Given the lacklustre performance of the England Team perhaps some self criticsm may be more appropriate;If highly paid individuals cannot work as a team with other highly paid professionals the issue is hardly the problem of the manager.Given the expensive revolving door that has been frequently used to get rid of the manager the only constant is the team members. In this case the problem is unlikely to be the manager. More likely over paid premadonnas who are out of their comfort zone and lack the level of fighting spirit needed to support and deliver for their country. Wed 23 Jun 2010 10:31:26 GMT+1 Artur Freitas National teams tend to be made of outstanding talented players who play in teams that would beat most national teams, have an understanding of soccer strategies and therefore their coaches are not dealings with “children” and can be criticized. Federations must know who they appoint to coach national teams. Wed 23 Jun 2010 10:07:07 GMT+1 SNP - Scotland Not Present I know how JT felt.I've spoken up on behalf of colleagues before, then seen their heads go down in silence when it came to backing me up.They're the kind of people who still blame the unions for everything while working 70 hours a week. Wed 23 Jun 2010 10:02:25 GMT+1 joshua goldblum Capello is a pratt.Get rid, make Beckham interim manager and let the team play in their normal positions.Argentina are doing ok with that set up why cant we? Wed 23 Jun 2010 08:59:00 GMT+1 ctm If they have a complaint then they should all talk to the manager in a group,we keep hearing about the 4 4 2 position that seems to be causing problems,,we know they do not use this formation in the teams they play for so why is cappelo so insistent on using it,john terry should not be captain,these players only play together in these type off competitions,we need an english manager to run the team Wed 23 Jun 2010 08:38:37 GMT+1 Syni_cal If Toady Bliars team had chosen to criticise him rather than support him when he so obviously was looking after his own interests rather than the countrys, we might have avoided the worst of yesterdays budget. Wed 23 Jun 2010 08:15:53 GMT+1 daveliberty Why have a manager if he is not aloud to manage. To-many jumped up players around I think there is no British left in the British.How many of are team members are really playing with national pride.Just see how many can be bothered to sing the National Anthem at the beginning of the match.This is a clue to who is playing because England is there Life and Blood, £ signs in there eyes, also over paid.I hope the Royal Family take note and for sure think hard before any Honors are dished out. Wed 23 Jun 2010 03:49:48 GMT+1 Tom_in_Exeter This post has been Removed Wed 23 Jun 2010 03:13:34 GMT+1 kec132 All the French proved at the World Cup was that they didn't belong there and that the rightful contenders should have been the Irish team. If the French had done the right thing and admitted to the hand-ball and allowed a replay then the Irish could have made it to World Cup and the French team would not have disgraced themselves in a world forum.Terry was wrong, wrong, wrong to try and stage a coup. What these footballers have proven is that they believe they are larger than the sport, their team and their teammates. They are mistaken. Wed 23 Jun 2010 01:43:08 GMT+1 Ollathair We all work in teams. This includes our workplace as well as our home. In some teams no leader is required - in the home you have collaboration (hopefully!) where everyone gets the chance to participate.In some situations a leader is however required, and this moves us into the world of business, which includes the world of sport. A leader is required in these certain situations because you cannot have consensus or differing viewpoints, sometimes you need clear direction.When you need clear direction you also need a leader that is actually a leader. Quick definition of a leader - someone that others are preapred to follow. You can call yourself a leader or give yourself that title, but if no one really wants or cares to follow you guess what? That's right!In the case of football if we go back 100 years there was nowhere near the societal remuneration we see today. Let's be real here - these are JUST football players and have no real value beyond that. However the free market at the present time deems these fairly useless parts of our economy as deserving of big hourly pay rates.So - the French coach is not a leader as no one really wants to follow him. And the fact is that current society has elevated grown men that kick a plastic ball around a grass field for 90 minutes way outside what might be considered normal or practical wages (but the free market decides...) And finally the lack of leadership on a football team doesn't really affect anything. With or without football leadership the world continues on just fine. Tue 22 Jun 2010 23:58:44 GMT+1 HackToff I expect nothing less from footballers. They have ruined the beautiful game through greed, cheating and constant complaint. It would do the UK and the world a lot of good if standards of honourable behaviour were explained and then practised by players and managers alike. They are watched by millions of impressionable young men - and frankly set an appallingly low role model. Rugby league and union are light years better. Tue 22 Jun 2010 22:33:07 GMT+1 California Mojo Yes.If only for my entertainment. There's nothing funnier than a bunch of prima donna's attacking each other when they lose. Tue 22 Jun 2010 21:27:23 GMT+1 deanarabin I've worked in teams and led them; I've also been a member of a team led by one of my subordoinates and led a team with my own boss as a member. In all these situations good teamwork requires people to say what they think, and the team boss should be just as liable to be criticised as anyone else. The important thing is that all criticism arising in teams (and particularly those where the acknowledged leader is being criticised) should be kept within the team itself, and not spread about by canteen gossip or blabbing to outsiders. Mr Terry would have done better by expressing his doubts to Mr. Capello in the presence of the other team members, but to have kept his mouth shut in public.Icidentally do we know if Mr. Terry was paid for his revelations, and if so, by whom and how much? Tue 22 Jun 2010 21:21:20 GMT+1 Icebloo Yes I think people should be able to criticise their Manager as long as it's done in a professional and constructive way. Not being able to speak out is called a dictatorship and leads to way more issues. Tue 22 Jun 2010 20:48:27 GMT+1 Bill Baur Not if they want to win. Tue 22 Jun 2010 20:30:44 GMT+1 leoRoverman Happens all the time, whats the problem? Criticism never hurt anyone but this sounds more like a nastly little spat between big egos. Solution either cut their egostical salaries or drop em. No one is indispensible especially in a team. Tue 22 Jun 2010 19:36:36 GMT+1 Rather_Be_Cycling I do admit I find it pecular indeed that the English team have an Italian manager. Given the nationalist hysteria in the UK over BP being alternately defended as a "British" company or, at the same time by the same people, described as being an "multinational" one, I suppose this will give England convenient excuse when the USA advances to the next round and it doesn't. Tue 22 Jun 2010 19:25:55 GMT+1 John_Southampton 163. At 5:38pm on 22 Jun 2010, Scott0962 wrote:"Yet despite this the USA haven't actually won a game either. England have drawn two, the USA have drawn too. Both teams have exactly the same number of points in the table."-------------------------------------------------------------------Tough to win a game when the official disallows a goal for no apparent reason. Tue 22 Jun 2010 19:25:03 GMT+1 Imatroll99 I see a new headline on the BBC news website, "Benefits cheat filmed playing football for pub team"! I get the feeling that all these footballers are real "chancers" and have difficulty in understanding that they are accountable to their management and by this I do not mean their precious WAGS. Tue 22 Jun 2010 19:21:44 GMT+1 cynic555 Time for players to understand that the name on the back of the uniform takes second place to the country on the front of the uniform. Tue 22 Jun 2010 18:54:48 GMT+1 NicBeeb Sometimes its good to 'suggest' to one's manager that they're not on the right track. In the case of the England team tho, they are paid such an obscene amount of money do they actually care if they win or lose, regardless of manager? Other teams like Ivory Coast played like Titans with 10 times more vigour than England & probably not for 100k a year!The whole thing needs to be brought back to earth for players and managers. It should be driven by love of the game, skill and national pride. All of which seems to have been lacking if that limp performance was anything to go by. Tue 22 Jun 2010 18:36:07 GMT+1 spoton All members of teams should be free to discuss any points with the team manager, providing it is constructive and kept private.The public love to read gossip stories eg of discord and affairs, and the press sells more papers the more of this sort of stuff it has to write about, especially when the football itself is not gobsmakingly good. However such babbable can affect players perrformances adversely so is best avoided.There are many views expressed of league teams employing too many foreigners, possibly leading to lower national team standards.A few comments on this:1) If parents/schools etc can encourage children to enjoy soccer, then they will play it, and improve. This has nothing to do with league clubs, though they can and add to it by having youth teams etc and so do still get involved with youngsters irrespective who they employ afterwards2) Clubs will employ people who make the grade. Foreign youth do not get employed simply because they are foreing, but becuase the clubs seeing them as better players. It is for english youth to make the grade and make themselves employable. When clubs take on youths they do not abandon english players simply because they are english. 3) League clubs are businesses in their own right. The national team and its performances are a side show in terms of increasing the success of clubs as business ventures, so they are hardly going to employ english players to improve the standards of the national team.One final point, it is required of immigrants to meet minimum english speaking and writing standards. This is so they can communicate and work effectively. I have noticed the manager of England quite often seems to struggle to find words when interviewed. There is so much umming and erring. It is highly improbable that any proper business organisation would employ somebody as a manager of its staff who cannot communicate articulately and easily with the staff the business also employs. The manager has to be able to guide, explain, inspire and encourage very effectively with constant review of individual and team behaviour, attitude, application, methods in order to get the very best out of individuals and the team. It becomes irrelevant if the manager has a history of competence in technical aspects, if the manager is unable to get this across or cannot inspire the staff through an inability to communicate his thoughts. I find it difficult to see how any business in England would pay millions to someone in a managers role if he cannot communicate easily. It is far more likely they would never get the job at all. Good luck England and I hope you qualify for the next stage. Tue 22 Jun 2010 18:05:58 GMT+1 Le Powerful If a team needs to criticise the Manager then the Manager is not doing their job right. A team should be pushed by the Manager and not dragged behind them.They are proving themselves to be spoiled egomaniacs rather than skilled sportsmen. Fabio and his management skills are questionable to say the very least and if he can't take criticism, public or otherwise, he's in the wrong job. Tue 22 Jun 2010 17:54:17 GMT+1 GrahamG If a team (any team, work team or sports team) has a collective problem with the way the manager is working then yes, it's OK for the team to ask the manager for a meeting to thrash things out in private. Any decent manager would listen and try to find a middle way rather than impose deeply unpopular practices without compromise, or at least try to explain why the unpopular practices are absolutely necessary. However, it isn't OK for one member of the team to go public with views before even trying to talk with the manager FIRST, especially when he expresses views which turn out not to be representative of the team's view. Tue 22 Jun 2010 17:17:53 GMT+1 thomas English born Premier footballers are fairly thin on the ground these days - makes forming a national team rather difficult.The sheer numbers of overseas players in our league teams must frustrate good, talented British born young men. It is all well and good for the rich Premier Leage sides to flaunt their cash and attract big names but the outcome is that we now have too few home grown players of excellence to choose from.It is clear from this world cup that almost every nation is having a similar problem with teams set against managers.In an earlier comment I advocated having an English manager for the English national team and this would apply to every national involved. No divided loyalties and everyone working to the same end.Go England - I may be a lone voice in the wilderness but I still have faith in you. England expects that every man shall do his duty ...... and all that. Tue 22 Jun 2010 16:59:34 GMT+1 Sue Doughcoup Very laughable. But then what can you expect. I firmly lay the blame at the fans. They are the ones who condone the state of the English game. There are far too many foreign players, managers, coaches and owners that have vastly reduced the pool of local players and have prevented others from having a crack in the top flight to see if they can make it. If this world cup has shown anything it is that there must be a crackdown in the number of foreign players/management in the game and limited to so many per team. Fortunately I am not a football supporter, well, top flight anyway, and do not contribute directly to watch overpaid premadonnas. While on the subject of football. Why can't instant video evidence be used during matches at this level? Cricket and rugby have successfully incorporated it into their games. It would certainly stop this playacting when so-called fouls are committed.World Cup so far. 2/10 Tue 22 Jun 2010 16:53:42 GMT+1 Scott0962 re. #22. At 2:52pm on 21 Jun 2010, Peter_Sym wrote:#15 "The English and French football players have no-one to blame except themselves for their recent lackluster performance. This poor performance is further compounded by the players' rejection of self analysis and self criticism, as evidenced by the blame on coaches and further ludicrous blame on assorted girlfriends and vuvuzelas.By contrast the Americans played well because they play as a team; are optimistic; never give up even during the last seconds of a game and put their country first before themselves."Yet despite this the USA haven't actually won a game either. England have drawn two, the USA have drawn too. Both teams have exactly the same number of points in the table.------------------------Considering how much more prestige and success the game enjoys in England than it does in the U.S. being tied with the Americans is not exactly a ringing endorsement of Team England. If only Team USA could get fired up before they fall two goals behind!I haven't paid attention to England's manager relations but what the French team was shockingly unsportsman-like. Criticizing the manager is one thing, refusing to practice for a game, and especially at the World Cup level, is simply unacceptable. The French players have disgraced themselves by this action worse than their own lackluster performance on the field ever could. Tue 22 Jun 2010 16:38:03 GMT+1 laughingjkings The problem is that the British media is inherently racist against the French - yes the players have all behaved like Primadonnas (England and France). I remember the commentary of the 2006 World Cup which constantly criticised France, even thought they got to the final! Admittedly, their route to the 2010 finals is tainted, but the appalling racism by the British press and media demonstrates a very deeply ingrained and ironically arrogant attitude. Tue 22 Jun 2010 16:35:04 GMT+1 brucesp01 Management and workers in many workplaces have one big failing. Management do not know everything and neither do the workers but it always pays for management and workers to get together and find ways of working together to better the end product. It can work if it is organised properly. Tue 22 Jun 2010 16:16:24 GMT+1 wvpTV If he is bad enough, Yes!All employees are entitled to complain about their manager to higher authority (law in UK) Tue 22 Jun 2010 16:15:01 GMT+1 Ed Bodden A manager is a manager ...and a player ,a player, Looking on how much money they make and how spoiled they are in real life,it does not suprise me in the least that their vision is completly blurred by their own self importance.Playing for the UK team does not mean that mean to them ,but anyway they can assert themselves more in their hunger for more fame is just maddening.Instead of playing football and concentrating on that,oh no....complain that their life is dull right now.might as well put a granny on the field ,she can´t score neither.To much worship for those guys. Tue 22 Jun 2010 14:59:42 GMT+1 ciconia Team means all for one and one for all.Any member of any kind of team has the choice if they're unhappy: Stay and do your best, or leave.Real men keep their mouths shut, but of course this is football- all my prejudices confirmed. Tue 22 Jun 2010 14:19:26 GMT+1 David Horton I am amazed at how much a story the media think this is.Two execrable performances against derisory opposition, 23 anxious, surprised and frustrated players, one over confident ex-captain, one shy vice-captain promoted to captain by default, millions of angry supporters and one manager who barely speaks English.Bad enough you think?Well, not bad enough for the media who really don't care whether we get knocked out as long as they can get a good slagoff story on the front page. This is a media invention.Listening to Alan Green you would think that Terry had been orchestrating a 'Great Escape' style break out.This should not be a story but it has become one. I watched Terry's interview and all I saw was a player who was promising to do everything he can to win against Slovenia.Where did this nonsense about 'not sanctioned', 'treachery', 'still thinks he is captain' come from? I listend to some strident guy from Liverpool who sounded as if was prepared to dook it up to defend Gerrard's honour at being slighted!Calm down! Calm down! Get some perspective mate!There is one thing very, very VERY important that happened in the Terry interview that no-one has picked up on.TERRY HAD AN FA MINDER WITH HIM THROUGHOUT, SO IT WAS SANCTIONED PRESS CONFERENCE. Watch it on BBC iplayer. Only at one point did the minder have to nudge him and whisper something. Can't quite work out what he said to him but it was during a question about Nicolas Anelka. Have a look and see what I mean. It is about minute 13 in a 14 minute interview.The FA rep did NOT intervene up until then. Therefore the FA were perfectly happy with what he said up to then about his respect for Cole's ability and the discussions with Capello.So please, ignore this media contrived non-story and just support the team.(Personally, I never wanted Capello. He is a brilliant club manager, but has no pedigree for international. He was found out by Algeria and displayed tactical incompetence. I'd like to see Stuart Pearce given a six year contract as Manager, starting yesterday.) Tue 22 Jun 2010 13:18:47 GMT+1 Stuart I tend to feel that if you are in a team and have a manager; suck it up, these overpaid prima donnas are actually a bit ridiculous, lets face it; the England team looked somewhat less than fantastic and when the players are on the field, they play, not the manager so if they look sad it is them looking sad, not the manager. As for France, I notice that France has only one letter more than Farce. But I hasten to add that I do not know what is going on. I do believe that while at a tournament the size of the world cup, a team should just do their best and save the recriminations for later. Tue 22 Jun 2010 13:17:28 GMT+1 Sea Wolf A team is only a team if all members have some kind of say. The manager does not have to agree, or do what the team says, but he has to listen ... or it's not a team. It's a dictatorship. Give your team the respect of listening to them, Fabio, and a little less of the veiled threats about John Terry's "big mistake".Time to get an English manager for the English team, as Fabio does not seem to understand English culture and temperament. Tue 22 Jun 2010 12:43:50 GMT+1 chrisk50 First off, why do we not have an English Manager? we have even out sourced our sports events abroad. Its bad enough having thousands of foreign players leaving so few good players to choose from for our national Team. In some cases you could choose a side from any Sunday league to play as good. Tue 22 Jun 2010 12:18:25 GMT+1 TheSamePeopleAlwaysGetPicked I gave up on football 20 years ago because I foresaw the ridiculous spiraling salaries and transfer fees.However, I've always advocated this to my football loving work colleagues: If England national side want to win anything, they should first and foremost ditch every footballer that plays in the premier league. They only care about the £50,000 they earn in a week, double what the average football fan earns in a year. The FA should instead utilise players from the championshop league - they will play their hearts out, knowing that should they do England proud, knowing they'll be signed up to a premier league team and earn a stupid amount of money. Tue 22 Jun 2010 11:54:43 GMT+1 FedUp With PC When they do their job and do it well a team has a right to question negative interference from a disrutive manager.In the case of the England Team (team, now there is a joke, what a bunch of lazy, spoilt, overpaid underworked ne'er do goods), they must learn to deliver, not spit their dummies out.As an aside, did you here that Wayne would like a break after Christmas? Wouldn't we all? Especially if you were given £140k a week to squander.Do they not realise that is five times the earnings of the average worker PER YEAR.If we want to boo, jeer and catcall we will. We pay the outrageous salaries and we call the tune.Get out Wednesday and do a Portugal! Or shut up. Tue 22 Jun 2010 11:41:45 GMT+1 redrobb I am employed in a pseudo Team environment, fortunately we don't operate in a war scenario otherwise all those pseudo team leaders would have been well and truly fragged! (This was a term used to describe officer cadre during US / Vietnam conflict)As for team working pretty much most play the game! Tue 22 Jun 2010 11:39:14 GMT+1 Peter N If a manager is oblivious to unease or unhappiness in the team that is affecting performance then yes, someone should speak up. The idea that a manager, or anyone, is infallible and beyond reproach is rediculous.The criticism however should be constructive, for the overall good of the team and if possible raised in private (that perhaps was Terry's 'big mistake'). Tue 22 Jun 2010 11:38:13 GMT+1 Lets make politics illegal If you are part of a team, you work as a team. But if a member of that team works in such a way as to undermine the efforts of that team, that member should leave. Sometimes team managers work so badly that they undermine the team they are supposed to be enabling, sometimes there is simply an unavoidable personality clash.Initially we may respect the decision of a team manager, but the complaint should be investigated eventually by somebody other than the manager or hierachy holding the manager in place. Now is not the time to do that. The tournament has to be played with the available people. Afterwards the issues should be investigated independently of managers & hierachies and decisions made for the future on the basis of their findings.But for now, until the present "emergency" of the world cup is over, they're stuck with the ones who will work together. If tht team falls apart, it is all part of the life of the tournament & they will find themselves out through losing matches. Tue 22 Jun 2010 11:35:11 GMT+1 Peter N "#34. At 3:38pm on 21 Jun 2010, ClaudeBalls wrote:Not much sympathy with the players I'm afraid. Not sure how their most recent "performance" can be blamed on the Manager. I'm quite sure no-one in the England management team asked them to play as badly individually & collectively as they did. Neither did anyone ask them only to run around about half as much as the Algerian chappies and not press them on the ball too much. HUGE contrast with what I saw from England rugby less than 24hrs later (and against much better opposition) and for much less money and whingeing."The players are certainly not blameless but your comments leave me wondering what we pay Capello £5m per year for? I mean surely he has some impact on the field, and if so he has some of the blame, yes? Tue 22 Jun 2010 11:33:48 GMT+1 D Just play the game and keep ones mouth shut! Imagine we went to the media to slate our bosses! Tue 22 Jun 2010 11:31:25 GMT+1 SSnotbanned FUNNY THE TEAM HAS STOPPED PLAYING WELL WHEN JOHN TERRY WAS REMOVED AS CAPTAIN.HAVE YOU NOTICED ALL THE NEWSPAPERS/MEDIA PUNDITS WHO 'SUPPORTED'' THE DECISION TO SACK JT AS CAPTAIN, HAVEN'T MENTIONED IT ???THEY ARE BLAMING THE MANAGER FOR OTHER THINGS, LIKE TEAM SELECTION AND TACTICS.['AN AMERICAN TRILOGY', ELVIS PRESLEY;'The truth keeps marching on...'.] Tue 22 Jun 2010 11:26:48 GMT+1 Peter N "#1. At 1:44pm on 21 Jun 2010, Phillip of England wrote:I can't comment on the situation with France's football team and what they are up to. But as for the discord I have read about within the England camp, I would say this. These pampered pre-madonnas are paid a FORTUNE to do what they do. My suggestion is that they stick to their football, keep their mouths shut and do as they are told by their managment. I am sick to the back teeth of hearing about footballers complaining about this and that as if they have SOOOO bad, poor little lambs. No doubt they are too blinded by the pound signs in their eyes to be able to play decently and bring us home that trophy._______________________________________________________________________Aside from your name, not sure why you exclude the Frence players from your comments? Tue 22 Jun 2010 11:25:32 GMT+1 Billy The Bull Whatever the team think about their manager should be confined to the dressing room and not broadcast to the general media circus. The adverse publicity does nothing for team morale and puts the manager under unnecessary strain when he is trying to keep a cool head. Tue 22 Jun 2010 11:22:51 GMT+1 Trainee Anarchist They are not forced to play for England....and by the look of the last games perhaps they should reconsider their ability to play at this level.They know how the manager operates and they accepted his leadership when they agreed to get your act together, play like the world class footballers that you think you are and get on with it!They seem to have the same malaise that effects the country as a's someone else's fault and we are hard done by....rubbish...your playing a game of football and if you are not up to it or unhappy then retrain as a plumber! Tue 22 Jun 2010 11:22:24 GMT+1 steve This post has been Removed Tue 22 Jun 2010 10:55:02 GMT+1 KarenZ Players should criticise the manager if there is good reason and the manager should listen. But the criticism must be constructive and for the good of the team as a whole.But they must not forget that they are a team and they are there to play together: both manager and players. Tue 22 Jun 2010 10:43:07 GMT+1 chiptheduck Not publicly. Nor should a manager criticise his staff. Tue 22 Jun 2010 10:16:53 GMT+1 Tio Terry Constructive critisism is good. Destructive critisism or simply moaning is no use at all. I have had to build and manage teams for various projects I've been involved with over a lot of years. The last thing I want is a load of Yes Men, I'm not looking for blind obedience, I want constructive input, everyone can improve, sometimes you dont see what others see. Critisism of what you do is not a suggestion of failure, it's a suggestion that things can be even better than they are. Tue 22 Jun 2010 10:06:44 GMT+1 Bibi Team members, workers, voters...whatever...they all have the right to criticise ineffective, inefficient and unprofessional management. The French people have always had, and continue to maintain, completely the right idea when it comes to dealing with anyone who tries to tell them what to do or take advantage of them! Here in the UK, we seem to have reverted to the forlock-tugging unwashed masses we were hundreds of years ago Tue 22 Jun 2010 10:04:50 GMT+1