Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html en-gb 30 Thu 18 Dec 2014 16:42:13 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html turkishdaisy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=99#comment308 308. At 12:36pm on 14 May 2010, Madvillain wrote:dear madvillain;'where are you? come and bring the peace to our country again' they want to rejoin the climate of peace and tolerance" - they have said like this for years.. ı do not know where you are from . but ı have to say it: my dear, we sould be polite,sould not it? ı have a lot of frends; kyrgyzstan,mongolia, buddist we usually share our opinions each other. and ı love them very much. and freedom is really wonderful it is real freedom , living in a climate that is peace and tolerance:) Fri 14 May 2010 12:28:30 GMT+1 Madvillain http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=99#comment307 306. At 11:43am on 14 May 2010, turkishdaisy wrote: First of all I used the terms brainwashed & propaganda as that is exactly as you came accross in your previous posts. I will use whichever words are suitable for the situation, you need to be less sensitive. Secondly, I passed no moral judgement on the actions of empires I simply stated the fact that they are brutal. I understand that you have to view history in its own context but this doesnt negate the brutality of our ancestors. Thirdly, you didnt simply say that Turkey has had humanist opinions, you were trying to assert the superiority of the Ottoman empire and by extension the Turkish Republic. "and when we go to countries like azerbaijan,arabia,bosnia herzegovina ..,people say 'where are you? come and bring the peace to our country again' they want to rejoin the climate of peace and tolerance" - As your statement is trying to imply that all these peoples would have a better life if they were under Turkish control. Finally, as you didnt actually address or challenge any of the opinions I put forward I will have to assume that you recognise the futility of trying to justify the crimes of the past. Fri 14 May 2010 11:36:29 GMT+1 3rensho http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=99#comment306 It will if Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy get their financial houses in order. If they just say "whew, dodged another one" then it is good money after bad. Fri 14 May 2010 11:00:33 GMT+1 turkishdaisy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=98#comment305 304. At 10:28am on 14 May 2010, Madvillain wrote:my dear;firs you sould not use these words 'brainwash' and 'propaganda', please. ı m trying to say we have had humanist opinions for centuries. now we live in Turkish Republic and we have some problems that we are trying to solve these like other country,and we are both liberal and conservative country.. history can not be judged by current values-judiciary.. and if you look carefully around you,you can see our people who dedicate themselves for happiness of world populations with modern education places all over the world .. :) Fri 14 May 2010 10:43:59 GMT+1 ivabt http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=98#comment304 As a Bulgarian I am just curious to know why you "Western Europeans" are angry NOW. Everyone with some eye sight could have seen what was going on in Greece. Europe's "favorite child" has been given money for decades, and it has been known from decades that only small part of this money have gone where they were meant to, while the bigger part has been swiftly moving into someone's pocket. The corruption in Greece is so blatant and of such massive proportion that it would put to shame even my country.So the real question should be why has the EU turned a blind eye to this obvious fraud? Why wait so long, until things have literally come to the brink of collapse? Why was this behavior not punished earlier? But mostly why the double standards? EU stops funding for projects immediately it sees bad practices in Bulgaria and Romania. But for Greece it waited 3 decades to do something!So, yes if I was British or German I would want to know why I have to pay for something (with the interest accrued over the years of inaction)for something which could have been easily prevented years ago? I would ask this question to my government. Fri 14 May 2010 10:08:14 GMT+1 Madvillain http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=98#comment303 302. At 09:11am on 14 May 2010, turkishdaisy wrote. Sorry to dissapoint you Daisy, but you are another victim of your states effective propaganda machine. The Ottoman empire was just as brutal as any other. How do you think empires maintain control over conquered peoples? Do you honestly believe that they are all grateful for you oppressing them? The fact is all empires use violence and brutality as a method of maintaining control. It matters not if the sultans were taught in a moral fashion, having complete power over life and death will corrupt any individual and the sultans are no different from you or me in that respect. You need to stop trying to gloss over the crimes of the past, the armenian genocide is a prime example. How can you try and blame the aremenians for it? Its like a rapist blaming a rape victim "because she was wearing provocative clothes", the oppressor will always blame the victim for their plight. It has happened throughout history and doesnt look like it will change any time soon.You seem to be brainwashed with the old idea of Turkish superiority, this is nothing more than a lie used to maintain a certain level of social cohesion within your country. You need to wake up and realise that blind belief in the nation state will lead to nothing but destruction and oppression. For if you truly believe that Turkey is superior then you can be easily manipulated into believing that others are inferior. The first step on a dark path which has only one end point. Think about where it leads... Fri 14 May 2010 09:28:59 GMT+1 mridul_h http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=97#comment302 There following are a few of some of the important factors that determines the health of an Economy 1. There must be enough of liquidity within the Economy to allow it to flow most at ease everywhere to every nook and corner of the Globe irrespective of barrier of boundaries as set by different Countries.2. There always be variation of value of Currencies depending upon how much honesty one is putting-in into the system3. Any halt of flow anywhere for whatever reason shall cause the Economy to become sluggish to defeat the purpose of its doing well to all in proportional to the labor put-in by one.4. A mare building of foreign reserve beyond a point shall produce a reverse effect everywhere including that of those Countries that are holding over limit reserves, due to sudden development slackness of movement of their currencies within the respective Countries responsible for doing so to force the entire Globe face hardship limitlessly. As and when we decide to address such occurrences, happened for whatever reason, all must join hand to fight against it including the ones that have high foreign reserve which is not meant for immediate use for doing of an exchange or else the reserve shall work against it to make their own Economy suffer most, being such step prompt others to take alternative steps or routes to infuse liquidity into the Economy leaving the reserve untouched which shall in-turn make such reserves valueless. Accordingly as and when we find that such Countries are not responding to the call of the hour to rescue the Economy earliest before facing ourselves a death, we must avoid using or allow such fund command the newly created system. Therefore it is of utmost importance to us that in absence of adequate response from these Countries, we must not allow any fund created as such, ever go out of the boundary for whatever reason to see ourselves of it, producing a fruitful result in our favor. (Dr.M.M.HAZARIKA PhD) Fri 14 May 2010 09:24:21 GMT+1 turkishdaisy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=97#comment301 283. Anon-Mind; "if Ottomann Empire was cruel, it could not live for centuries..600 years! you know cruel policy could not live long like Führer.. thanks my vlad...."---------------------------------------------------------------------------Sorry TurkishDaisy but I disagree. The Ottoman Empire was brutal. Young Orthodox Christian boys were abducted and forced into the Ottoman army as Janisseries from all over the Balkans, the Bashibazouks raped and pillaged and massacred their way through Bulgaria during the April Uprising in 1876, slaughtered many Greeks during their War of Independence in 1821 and the Ottoman Empire was responsible for the Armenian Genocide, an extremely dark period in Turkish history. These are just from the top of my head, Im sure given more time to research I could catalogue a great many. From the Roman Empire (which was both brutal and lived for centuries) to the Spanish Empire to the British Empire, the Third Reich, the USSR and even the Americas 'subtle empire' of today I challenge you to name one empire throughout history without brutality, there is not one. ......................................dear Anon-mind;sorry but ı think you do not know Turkish culture and their specialities..do you belive in armenian diaspora? even the armenians in our country do not believe in it,we live together happily. and armenians who live in armenia, the real genocide was made of them(and they have a massares in karabagh) you can see their genocide in our country. come and see please,, turk sultans was trained with an excellent moral,they had principles 'ever do not touch innocent people'.. 'brutality' is an unfair accusation. please, you should refer history books which are objective.. and when we go to countries like azerbaijan,arabia,bosnia herzegovina ..,people say 'where are you? come and bring the peace to our country again' they want to rejoin the climate of peace and tolerance.. russia-esspecially siberia ,papua new guinea, australia,indonesia,madagascar ..we are still below there .. if you go to these countries, you can see turkish people there what a wonderful thing to dedicate yourself for humanity!:) thanks.. Fri 14 May 2010 08:11:38 GMT+1 Tibor http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=97#comment300 296. At 7:48pm on 13 May 2010, aristotles23 wrote:"...And "Uncle Joe"Stalin was responsible for the deaths of more people than perished in the entire second world war.Solzhenytsin "The Gulag Archipelago" 400 MILLION individuals imprisoned tortured and worked to death..."Read that again please. The population of the USSR in 1939 was 190 millions. The loss in WWII was 20+ millions by 1945. Be aware of cheap propaganda... Fri 14 May 2010 07:14:14 GMT+1 Tibor http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=96#comment299 298. At 03:35am on 14 May 2010, TominExeter wrote:"...How can any country expect to continue in this way - a parasite on the back of its partners? The EU has stated that it will defend the Euro - no matter what it takes. The stupidest of the Greeks might think this means an endless gravy train for their benefit. The more intelligent Greeks, the few that haven't emigrated, will see that this is a thinly veiled threat to expel Greece from the Euro, which means eventual expulsion from the EU, if they don't mend their ways. Do Greeks really have no love, pride, and respect for their country?.."Don't be fooled by your media. You understand close to nothing about the situation. Greece is trapped just like most of the EU countries. The people are just victims. Greece is a great nation and it will remain to be so with or without the EU. Figure out the national dept of your own country please prior to jump into conclusions. Thank you. Fri 14 May 2010 07:04:17 GMT+1 lassies2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=96#comment298 How can it work when the the European Parliament cannot control their own finances.How many years has it been since they have had their accounts audited and passed by the auditors?There is nothing there to control their spending. Fri 14 May 2010 06:49:09 GMT+1 Tom_in_Exeter http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=96#comment297 The evidence is that bailing out Greece will not work. That country has been provided with an unprecedented, and undeserved, lifeline. The response? Riots and affray objecting to any measures designed to put Greek finances in order. Let's look at the brutal facts. Greece has, for decades, been living beyond its means. Its people prefer borrowing to work, all the hard workers have emigrated; it is a nation of Lotus Eaters. They seek to perpetuate this situation by seeking loans unconditionally, some having the honesty to admit that if they can't repay them, they will happily default. Greece fiddled its books to gain dishonest entry to the Euro, and its people routinely cheat their democratically elected government out of up to 40% of its tax revenue. How can any country expect to continue in this way - a parasite on the back of its partners? The EU has stated that it will defend the Euro - no matter what it takes. The stupidest of the Greeks might think this means an endless gravy train for their benefit. The more intelligent Greeks, the few that haven't emigrated, will see that this is a thinly veiled threat to expel Greece from the Euro, which means eventual expulsion from the EU, if they don't mend their ways. Do Greeks really have no love, pride, and respect for their country? Do they not realise that their country is themselves? Fri 14 May 2010 02:35:40 GMT+1 aristotles23 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=95#comment296 Greece is the first to fall to the tune that the New World Order is playing,their permanent enslavement to the European Union has truly begun. Now that the dominoes have started to fall,Spain,Portugal,Britain,Turkey and all the Eastern European countries will be next,more or less in that order.Global Fascist Hegemony has begun.It matters not who we vote for,who we fight,who are our allies,our enslavement by debt that our grandchildren will still be paying off is being consolidated for us by the politicians and their friends in banking(Federal reserve,IMF,World Bank,Bank of England),all controlled by their majority shareholders,the Rothschild family,whose fortunes are in the trillions,who live in,not houses,but palaces.Quotes from their public appearances are quite illuminating,"I dont care who is president or king,give me control of the money and I control the state"(Amery Rothschild),"If my sons did not want wars,there would be no wars"(His Wife),its easy to see where the real power lies.The Greeks "Bailout",is the manacles that the New World Order wish to shackle all of us with.To be in unrepayable debt to financial demagogues is what will enslave all of us....Conspiracy-theory gone mad? I wish!..... Thu 13 May 2010 21:18:28 GMT+1 aristotles23 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=95#comment295 275...vlad17......And "Uncle Joe"Stalin was responsible for the deaths of more people than perished in the entire second world war.Solzhenytsin "The Gulag Archipelago" 400 MILLION individuals imprisoned tortured and worked to death.I'm not anti-Russian at all,or anyone else for that matter,I just thought I had to add some previously unmentioned facts.Thank you. Thu 13 May 2010 18:48:52 GMT+1 aristotles23 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=95#comment294 254....Tibor....I agree,succinct and to the point,and the truth,as seen from the perspectives of history and logical reasoning,based on the lessons of history,as well as contemporary facts about the creation of the North American Union(when the southern Canadian and northern Mexican borders are to be dismantled,to create a single economic zone),planned to be finalised by 2015.The European Union already exists,The African Union already exists,Russia,Australia and China are co-operating to co-control The Asian and Pacific Union when it it officially comes into being,also projected for 2015.The consolidation of financial power through the machinations of both Bankers/financiers and politicians and their chums in the military/industrial complex will complete the first phase by 2012 and the global hegemony era of control by co-operating fascist states will be the much talked-about but never discussed New World Order.This is why the ruling elites are forcing the dismantling of Nation States and the destruction of existing ethnic/racial/cultural identities.Multiculturalism is not about the creation of one big happy family,although I'm sure most of its adherents still believe that to be true,its not.its about taking away any real collective power from populations,by adulterating completely ALL ethnic,cultural and racial identities and replacing them with the creed of global consumerism,we are to become one homogenous mass of world shoppers,with no genuine collective identity,at the whim of Globe Corp.What a scary future we are walking blindly into!That is the reality of the global"recession" a recession which generated huge profits for global corporations and specifically banking and the military,whilst we are faced with paying for our own enslavement.If you read it here first,then you need to do some research. Thu 13 May 2010 18:38:07 GMT+1 Steve http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=94#comment293 To me this sounds like a household that lives on credit cards. Taking more credit when the other cards are maxed out. Eventually there will be goons at the door to collect your furniture.In this case the Greek islands will be sold to the highest bidder.Do today's politicians know how to cut expenses? Thu 13 May 2010 18:21:28 GMT+1 Pancha Chandra http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=94#comment292 Now that the international community has rallied behind Greece, the Greeks have to show their determination to follow strict guidelines and NOT default in any way. The European Union and the IMF have bent themselves backwards to save Greece. Financial discipline is what the international community wants of Greece not gratitude. After all Greece will pay interest on the loans. Thu 13 May 2010 16:28:32 GMT+1 ONE-SICK-PUPPY http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=94#comment291 The Weak American President Europe wanted.An American President telling Europe to create a Trillion dollars phony inflationary dollars like the Weimar Republic, all to bail out a bamnkrupt and unsustainable Socialist welfare system.The rise of radicalism on the Left and Right, the rise of Islamic fundementalism and the inability of the world to stand united to stop Nuclear proliferation. Endless unwinnable NATO wars where an American President against all advise set a firm withdrawal date for the enemy to mark upon their calanders.Thi Lie of Man Made Global warmig exposed for International ridicule.Crude oil gushing into a major international sea and a clueless President who has never faced a real crisis and never led men in any real endeavor.The Weak American President Socialist Europe wanted. Thu 13 May 2010 16:01:56 GMT+1 Pavel http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=93#comment290 Spain, Portugal, Greece and any other country have their assets that can allow them to pay their debts. Or at least any country sunk deeply in financial difficulties can sell some part of its territory in order to pay its debt if such a dealing is not prohibited by international laws. It is a matter of question whether the EU can have a right to appropriate the assets of its memmber states in case of its own default. The stability package will work no longer than the euro is greatly devalued. Thu 13 May 2010 15:40:08 GMT+1 mridul_h http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=93#comment289 For the half of the last century, we had extended many help to many through various Financial Institution of repute but mostly none worked other than producing an unseen parallel Economy for challenging the actual at will. The Bailout Package no doubt offer us an excellent platform to start our fight in balancing the seriously divided wealth but if we let loose our effort to cut down the reserve wrongfully accumulated by ones through offering of cheap finish Products everywhere within the Globe freely without any self restriction imposed or through educating the middlemen who are wholly responsible to keep the supply intact that befits with the demand; not to fall prey to earnings of Profit only through such transactions; the action might not exactly address the issue but keep dragging it indefinitely.The bailout plan must see or ensure of our non dependence upon cheap Products manufactured through duplication of design through issue of strict guidelines from rightful Authority if required. If the above concurrent action is absent, we are afraid to say that the trap lying in front of us not only remain intact but shall become stronger to reduce the value of the wealth we intend to disburse through the Bailout Package. (Dr.M.M.HAZARIKA PhD) Thu 13 May 2010 14:46:27 GMT+1 Roberttrebor http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=93#comment288 Can a coalalition goverment work, well lets look at history, Mandela/DeCerk, South AFrica, McGuinnis/Paisley, Northen Ireland and the one that nobody thought would happen Spandau Ballet have got back together..... Thu 13 May 2010 13:45:53 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=92#comment287 Re: Ottoman 'genocidial policies'...Almost 500 years of Ottoman occupation of Balkans and Middle East was basically the only long period of peace and stability in those regions.During which locals worked and dilligently paid taxes rather than slaughtering each other.Having no other choice.A politically incorrect, but amply documented fact. Thu 13 May 2010 11:51:39 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=92#comment286 Imagine: there are countries which refused to join EUSSR.And they're doing much better than those which did.[Norway and Switzerland come readily to mind.]Any explanation by unelected Brussels aparatchiks?Or their aficionados? Thu 13 May 2010 11:46:03 GMT+1 HappySnapper22 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=92#comment285 Given all the trouble in the € zone you would think they would have started to be a little more cautious. Apparently they have just decided Estonia can join, just what they need another broke, former communist state to make the € more stable! What a complete and utter shambles.Whats the betting that the PIGS will borrow the extra €750b over the next 2 years, fail to address the fundamental issues and come back for more?We need to get out of this corrupt shambles now before it collapses completely and lets hope it dosent come to war in Europe when it does. Thu 13 May 2010 11:39:17 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=91#comment284 Re #282My comment was directed at incorrigibale neo (?) Communists/jingoists from some Balkan countries still counting on Moscow's help, obviously unaware that USSR was defeated more than 20 years ago, Kremlin is in no position to help anybody and EUSSR is well advanced on a way to oblivion. Thu 13 May 2010 11:33:03 GMT+1 Steve Edwards http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=91#comment283 12. At 10:43am on 10 May 2010, LeftieAgitator wrote:"I would expect the stability package to work, the political committment to the euro is too strong, the worldwide economic consequences too dire. I would also expect the long term result of this will be a much tighter harmonisation of fiscal policy for countries in the eurozone.The UK Europhobes will whine about the European Super State etc, but the economic logic is there, if you are a member of a club, you abide by the rules."You're quite right. In the short term it will work but, unless there is one economic government and one economy in the Eurozone, it will happen again. A single currency can only work if there is a common fiscal AND monetary policy. This will mean that social policy will also largely be centrally controlled becuase state spending will be controlled by (let's call it) Eurogov. Basically then, a single currency only works for a single country. The issue we Europhobes have is tmost of us were happy with being members of a trading group (I voted for the Common Market), yet we aren't happy about surrendering our national identity (and the right to govern ourselves)to a country called Europe. Thu 13 May 2010 10:36:33 GMT+1 Anon_Mind http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=91#comment282 "if Ottomann Empire was cruel, it could not live for centuries..600 years! you know cruel policy could not live long like Führer.. thanks my vlad...."---------------------------------------------------------------------------Sorry TurkishDaisy but I disagree. The Ottoman Empire was brutal. Young Orthodox Christian boys were abducted and forced into the Ottoman army as Janisseries from all over the Balkans, the Bashibazouks raped and pillaged and massacred their way through Bulgaria during the April Uprising in 1876, slaughtered many Greeks during their War of Independence in 1821 and the Ottoman Empire was responsible for the Armenian Genocide, an extremely dark period in Turkish history. These are just from the top of my head, Im sure given more time to research I could catalogue a great many. From the Roman Empire (which was both brutal and lived for centuries) to the Spanish Empire to the British Empire, the Third Reich, the USSR and even the Americas 'subtle empire' of today I challenge you to name one empire throughout history without brutality, there is not one. Thu 13 May 2010 10:18:46 GMT+1 PhilCoulth http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=90#comment281 I am not sure if the comment from powermeerkat is aimed at my posting if so, I apologise for my ignorance on the wider politics. I have not read Marx, Lenin or any of the others quoted. I'm just a bloke with an idea as posted above, . perhaps this is not the correct forum for ideas. Many of the posts are people letting off steam and when some one does make a contribution to the question asked " Will the EU stability package work?" is it right that they get slapped down? We are all at different intellectual levels and stages of development and no one has sole access to making a post. I would be grateful for a comment on the idea which shows it would or would not work then I can get on with other things in my life instead of wondering why no one else is taking the matter up. Thu 13 May 2010 08:59:31 GMT+1 greade http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=90#comment280 I hope the powers to be are watching what is happening in the world with the euro and do not change our currency. Greece had a stable economy until they adopted the euro other countries beware. Thu 13 May 2010 08:22:32 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=90#comment279 It's nice to see that despite a clear writing on the wall[MANE, TEKEL, FARES]Marx's and Lenin's followers are still alive and well.And, of course, incorrigible.-------------------------------------------------------------------------THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A 'FORMER KGB AGENT' (V.V. Putin) Thu 13 May 2010 07:42:27 GMT+1 PhilCoulth http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=89#comment278 Just to clarify a point which may have been misunderstood by SnoddersB, ( thanks for at least looking at my post!) my guess at 2% for student loans was a little high, Lloyds are charging 1.5% currently. It was just an example of what may be possible to charge on a £30K loan to a household.That interest rate is what we would be charged on the £30K loan to cover the proportion of debt each house hold who takes this up would pay. No one would be asked to pay more than anyone else and for taking on that debt you have a right for one vote. This is not the same vote as for the general election. More like a second house where governments costs would be scrutinised by those that are bailing out the government.Where we may make money is when the government handles the economy well and the UK plc makes a profit which can then pay out a dividend to these stakeholders for sharing the debt. Thu 13 May 2010 06:16:41 GMT+1 SnoddersB http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=89#comment277 266. At 10:06pm on 12 May 2010, Phil Coulthard wrote:Is there another way out of the national debt crisis which is pan EuropePerhaps we could look at this problem differently. Would it be impossible for each household to take on their share of the debt directly in the same way as a student loan? If that seems implausible then each individual could take on a portion of the debt and each person would take on no more that another.Great idea the government gives us 2% while the loan we take out to give the government costs 4%. Seems to me that there is osmething missing here and that yet again we are paying for GB's and AD's mistakes. Thu 13 May 2010 05:42:16 GMT+1 SnoddersB http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=89#comment276 So the countries that have had the Euro imposed on them want to bail out Greece. Well good for them. Just as long as we in the UK are not expected to prop up the unwanted extension of the E's powers. The last Labour administration has bankrupted the country, just as all Labour administrations have done, and knowing sleezy Brown he will have yet again signed a cheque that we are going to have to pay.I am therefore hopeful that the new government will tear up any cheque to the EU that was signed this year and tell the Dictatorial EU Commission to take its problems else where. A referendum on the EU would be nice, a simple one do we stay or go and no quaintly worded questions that can be taken either way. Thu 13 May 2010 05:30:30 GMT+1 ninetofivegrind http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=88#comment275 The Euro project was massively flawed from the outset...central monetary policy over a disparate grouping of countries and economic models. One of the few recent successes of British political leadership was to stay out of the Euro. Why throw such a massive amount of borrowed money down the rat hole?Europe is going to be in debtor prison for a long time because of the hubris of unelected Euro Technocrats. Thu 13 May 2010 04:40:51 GMT+1 Vlad17 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=88#comment274 274. At 01:08am on 13 May 2010, lordBanners wrote:274. At 01:08am on 13 May 2010, lordBanners wrote:Please accept my apologies for my postings offending you. You know we russians get furious about ones doubting Holocaust – we killed Nazi sadists. It is imposible to forget this. It is so much pain. But what is is ironical is betrayal of USSR by Israel. If Israel was our ally believe me there would be a full stop to arab agressors once and for all and long ago. Thu 13 May 2010 00:55:55 GMT+1 lordBanners http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=88#comment273 NOTHING will work until Greeks accept to live within their means.With the MANIPULATION going on, it is hard to fault the average Greek for DEMANDING EU Standards just through Membership. Turkey cannot seem to escape their Achilles-Heel, as Greek mismanagement will reflect most Negatively on Turkey aspirations for EU Membership, which in the long-term I'd venture, will Strategically make Turkey a Major Player between Islam and West as opposed to becoming just another notch in EU Junior-ranks.All these Organisations; G8,IMF,WB,WTO,OAS,NAFTA,EU, have one thing in Common:- To Preserve the status-quo. As INDEBTED figure them out, a New Org with similar goals will appear. EU is already proposing it's Own European Monetary Fund. Look to US objection from being shut-out of the Spoils.The only one with any Semblance of JUSTICE in it's mandate is G20 which is already facing a STRUGGLE from G8 interests. Thu 13 May 2010 00:08:35 GMT+1 DidUCall http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=88#comment272 The package will not work as long as there are sharks like Goldman Sachs out there. This influx of huge amounts of cash is just chumming the water for those who have no ethical conscience and whose sole motivation is greed. The general public will ultimately pay the price. Wed 12 May 2010 23:09:10 GMT+1 Vlad17 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=87#comment271 re. #259. At 5:52pm on 12 May 2010, Vlad17 wrote:"As for what it gave to proletarians – could you dream in your beloved Turkey about free higher education, free healthcare, zero unemployment, about zero crime level, the choice of starting your life without depending on family’s bank account etc? That was real in USSR."There was no crime in the Soviet Union? I must say, the Russians are awfully fast learners then.-----I understand your subtle irony. But I remember walking around in the midnight in USSR without any fear. And we used to simply execute pedophils and serial killers as usual. Before we joined Europe Council which we need like a dog needs a fifth’s leg. Wed 12 May 2010 23:00:09 GMT+1 Scott0962 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=87#comment270 re. #259. At 5:52pm on 12 May 2010, Vlad17 wrote:"As for what it gave to proletarians – could you dream in your beloved Turkey about free higher education, free healthcare, zero unemployment, about zero crime level, the choice of starting your life without depending on family’s bank account etc? That was real in USSR."There was no crime in the Soviet Union? I must say, the Russians are awfully fast learners then. Wed 12 May 2010 22:34:35 GMT+1 Kaliyug http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=87#comment269 The emergency bail-out will be like putting a band-aid on a fracture, this problem has been there for many decades of Greek rule, it only became evident after Greece adopted the Euro. Entitlements that people enjoy in Greece has to end sooner than later, regardless of the protests and problems one has to understand that Greece cannot offer something to this world that is in great demand. The adoption of the Euro has put its own challenges on the Greek way of life, suddenly the fish has become expensive and the people need more money to survive. European union will have to step-up its packages for helping Greece today and many more tomorrow if Euro has to be the defacto currency in the zone. Wed 12 May 2010 22:21:08 GMT+1 Vlad17 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=86#comment268 268. At 10:50pm on 12 May 2010, david wrote:I see that Estonia is planning to join the euro.Well - they've only got a tiny debt as a proportion of GDP - so obviously Germany et al will welcome them with open arms..Reminds me of the line in 'The Goon Show'...'Open your wallet and say after me: Help yourself..''Help yourself..''Thank you..!' -----Why not? They know that german donkeys will pay for their lazyness and SS parades to confront Russia. Ask Estonians for how long they have been donated by USSR. Do you think they are hard working people? Don’t make us russians laugh. Now we have got rid of them. At last. Their GDP stories are for Germany. Not for us. We have had enough with them. Wed 12 May 2010 22:17:09 GMT+1 david http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=86#comment267 I see that Estonia is planning to join the euro.Well - they've only got a tiny debt as a proportion of GDP - so obviously Germany et al will welcome them with open arms..Reminds me of the line in 'The Goon Show'...'Open your wallet and say after me: Help yourself..''Help yourself..''Thank you..!' Wed 12 May 2010 21:50:13 GMT+1 BarryRunningwater http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=86#comment266 Perhaps most troubling to me is the short-term perspective shown by market watchers and politicians alike. Bailout funds seem to be treated like something tangible, when in fact they are not. This money represents taxes that have not even been levied yet; they will be shackled to future generations. Sins of the fathers & mothers indeed! No doubt Greece, among many others Britain included, has erred. Unfortunately bailing out organizations and countries only shifts debts to others. British and German government bonds are sold to buy up Greek debt. In effect we end up buying debt with debt, getting further and further away from actual tangible mainly tax levied funds. How can a system built on successive levels and varieties of debt function in the long-run? It's irresponsible and totally untenable. Moreover how can anyone feel this will stave off the systemic machinations of international securities traders? The whole thing stinks. At some point we as a society have to let these organisations fail. Politicians have to start distancing the political realm and public funds from providing a safety net to our supposedly capitalist economy. Short-term pain longer term gain; it may not be in line with Keynesian economics, but times have changed since the 1930s and 1940s. Europe will suffer for this sooner or later. A little revolution is good sometimes. Wed 12 May 2010 21:45:01 GMT+1 PhilCoulth http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=85#comment265 Is there another way out of the national debt crisis which is pan Europe?All politicians talk of cutting the cake in different ways but the problem remains. Hardship for all.Perhaps we could look at this problem differently. Would it be impossible for each household to take on their share of the debt directly in the same way as a student loan? If that seems implausible then each individual could take on a portion of the debt and each person would take on no more that another.Why would we be so daft as to waste our good money to support the politicians, the UK economy or wider a field?1..We would become more than voters, we would be come political stakeholders . We are always being told by politicians that a wider interest in politics by the people should be encouraged.2..We would get the power of veto by way of referendum on issues that matter and affect government spending of our money.3..We would become more integrated as a society because even those with minority interests would be elligable to take on their share.4..We would get a dividend when UK plc ( or any other Euro plc ) makes a profit, which as stakeholders we would be watching carefully how politicians spend our pennies.5..We would stop the rot in politics because lobbyists would have to take their argument to the people who have the power of veto.How much per household, as a rough guess, around £30K, at an interest of 2% ( student loan ish) = £600 pa interest plus capital repayment over 50 years = £1200 per annum. This may be sufficient to repay the £30 billion debt.This is back of a fag packet stuff but the concept is there to explain what I am getting at. Who would underwrite the repayment? Well the EU / IMF perhaps but many home owners have repaid mortgages so have the home as a guarantee. As a lone voice I understand this goes no where and I am not an economist, ...its just an idea. Please shoot it down if that is what it deserves and perhaps we can all learn from the experts. I am considering starting a group who would pledge support. If we get say 100 people to take this seriously and pledge £30k for the right guarantee from government, that would be £3M which is not going to be unnoticed. This is embryonic as an idea but I am sure I am not alone, just a small businessman not sure whether to push it or shut up but I believe the concept needs exploring and not to be ignored. Wed 12 May 2010 21:06:05 GMT+1 harkerboy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=85#comment264 I hope not. Wed 12 May 2010 19:39:00 GMT+1 lordBanners http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=85#comment263 NOTHING will work until Greeks accept to live within their means.With the MANIPULATION going on, it is hard to fault the average Greek for DEMANDING EU Standards just through Membership.All these Organisations; G8,IMF,WB,WTO,OAS,NAFTA,EU, have one thing in Common:- To Preserve the status-quo. As INDEBTED figure them out, a New Org with similar goals will appear. EU is already proposing it's Own European Monetary Fund. Look to US objection from being shutting-out of the Spoils.The only one with any Semblance of JUSTICE in it's mandate is G20 which is already facing a STRUGGLE from G8 interests. Wed 12 May 2010 19:19:45 GMT+1 old english http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=84#comment262 If this fails Alister Darling committed the UK yesterday to guarantee a further 8 billion pounds in addition to the 7 billion already committed through other sources!This makes the new coalition government proposed savings look paltry- so thanks to the final giveaway by the outgoing labour clique Wed 12 May 2010 18:52:31 GMT+1 Chris http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=84#comment261 “Defend the Euro at any coast.” I’m from the US, and our dollar is competing with the Euro every day. US money, through the IMF, went to bailout Greece. I was outraged when I saw that happened. How can the US dollar succeed if its competition is not permitted to fail? I’m sure there are similar questions in the UK, concerning the pound. The economy is not going to be able to survive anywhere if governments keep meddling in the economic cycle. Greece failed, like the US banks a few years ago, for a reason, and just propping it up again is going to do no good unless Greece’s problems are eradicated. Wed 12 May 2010 18:51:46 GMT+1 Doug55 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=84#comment260 The only way to know if the people of Greece will accept the tightening of the belt, is with a referendum.No adjustment policies have ever worked out, from a socialist government out of need and not of convicion.An adjustment of this nature needs of all the country's commitment, something we already can see is not happening. Why the proper questions aren't being asked is something beyond my comprehention. Wed 12 May 2010 17:53:45 GMT+1 Tibor http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=83#comment259 257. At 5:26pm on 12 May 2010, ONE-SICK-PUPPY wrote:"...This is very stange Obama and his good friend George Soros telling the European Union what to do about your currency. I mean Obama is still only an apprentice Socialists telling the real professional Socialist what to do?"Your confusion is harmless. It is not Obama who creates the rules. As president, he re-presents them. Wed 12 May 2010 17:10:21 GMT+1 Vlad17 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=83#comment258 237. At 09:41am on 12 May 2010, turkishdaisy wrote:// CAN MARXİSİSM PROVİDE THESE?to vlad,rUsputin and the others;'rationalism is not everything and do not solve all problems'. we could not explain everything with our mind, my babies:) human have some special emotions like affection,sacrifice,devotion..we can live together with these emotions happily. can marxisim prvide them? what did it give proletariats? this ideology is empty,despotic, and barbarous, ı read Karl marx's book 'manifesto'.. but it is chaotic.. ı think ,even marx did'nt belive his saying-ideology and he knew it was only a dream which will not be real.. maybe, while he was giving his last breath, he believed in God like TOLSTOY who was one of the best writer in the world.. By the way, ı listened to 'radiohead band' 's song called idiotecq at a part of the song: '...........take the money,run. take the money,run..' this funny song is for Greece:).. //-----Daisy, first of all I think that your non-stop anti-Greece rethoric is quite strange. There are more countries to follow Greece soon probably. Could well be Turkey. So keep your fingers crossed.I appreciate your passion for humanistic values, but let us put religion aside for a while, as I suppose you mean that. For simply it is a different story if you know what I mean.With regard to Marx let me notice that you probably expect from him something else that he wanted to deliver. Marx’s theory is a pure economical analysis of capitalism, to explain it simply. It is based for example on Adam Smith’s Political Economy etc. If I start lecturing here HYS people on it I am afraid some would save it as a perfect sleep drug. But Manifesto is not chaotic as you say, it is a logical derivative from his “Capital” fundamental work. And Marx has nothing to do with ideology. There were other people to build on ideology above it. And it took quite different forms. Believe you or not but USSR people used to by “Free Korea” magazines as anecdote books to have lough after dinner and relax – you see now what different forms ideology may take on. As for what it gave to proletarians – could you dream in your beloved Turkey about free higher education, free healthcare, zero unemployment, about zero crime level, the choice of starting your life without depending on family’s bank account etc? That was real in USSR.Regarding current crisis Marx would have given a simple explanation – capital is looking for a profit, so they moved manufacturing to Asia and Eastern Europe, but to keep the system running you need people spending money. So you give them loans, eventually they can not pay them out since they lose jobs. That’s where lavina starts moving. First you have financial crisis, then realty, manufacturing etc sectors start to collapse. Isn’t that true now? What can help is a drastic increase in manufacturing technology, i.e. work productivity, like steam engines in the past time for example. Can we hope now for such a medicine? I don’t know. Greece is a first sign. The reason for crisis is overspending, and small countries just don’t have a neccesary “fat layer”. What is terrifying that it is a spirale in which capitalists kill their own system over certain intervals of time.Let’s finish it with a fun. Your beloved Lev Tolstoy was ex-communicated from Orthodox Church for his certain views. Which of course doesn’t reduce value of his books. Wed 12 May 2010 16:52:58 GMT+1 Eric http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=83#comment257 I guess to make this coalition work the Conservatives and the LibDemswill have to close their eyes(Hold their noses?) and think of Britain! Wed 12 May 2010 16:30:49 GMT+1 ONE-SICK-PUPPY http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=82#comment256 The news media here in America says Obama is calling the shots over in Europe, word is Obama told Angela Merkle how much phony money to create to prop up Greece and supposedly he is on the phone today telling the Spainish Prime Minster what to do. This is very stange Obama and his good friend George Soros telling the European Union what to do about your currency. I mean Obama is still only an apprentice Socialists telling the real professional Socialist what to do? Wed 12 May 2010 16:26:06 GMT+1 LeftLibertarian http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=82#comment255 People should take more notice of the facts, the UK's £8 billion is our share of the IMF loan guarantee. The UK has no financial committment to bailout any country in the Eurozone, as we are not part of the Eurozone.This was made clear when the bailout package was announced.THe figure of 343 billion bandied about by the tabloids was their usual Europhobic spin. Wed 12 May 2010 16:04:42 GMT+1 Marco http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=82#comment254 History always repeat itself in some form or another the world had Rome with its citizenship utopian (been roman citizen met you had right on others (slaves pasants even on their life) than we had religions ruling in the name of God Himself. The world gave birth to Hitter's SS elite and now we have the private club of dividend war monger lovers...remember You are either with us (Capitalist Utopia) or against us......Greece is just another example of man turning into nothing more than beast. The IMF/World Bank are still imposing their utopian ideologies of happiness in a box to sovereign nations, nations are selling their sovereignty to the highest better. For now it is these old institutions IMF/WORLD BANK that nations are bowing too,institutions such as the World Bank/IMF and their SS like agents N.G.OThis entire financial system and their agents ideologies are absolute and yet the entire world populations are still believing these utopians will deliver them from their own miseries they created by letting their government destroyed national institutions in the name of capitalism and have them replace by these world institutions such as the IMF and World Bank.God help us all because to deliver us from these world institutions, true leaders would have to turn dictators to eliminate those world agents who are out there still clinging to protect their why of life at all cost.May God bless this New World Order and its financial systemsIn only God I trustEx-Gatekeeper of the lost free world Wed 12 May 2010 15:40:34 GMT+1 Tibor http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=81#comment253 229. At 08:20am on 12 May 2010, Yves Dee wrote:"The bailout was never designed to bailout anyone, its purpose was to solely bring us one step closer to a single global government and currency system. The IMF/FED (private banks), have calculated and manipulated this bailout to fail..."So we all, with all we have are in the pocket of few private banks.New gods, new churches... Wed 12 May 2010 13:44:17 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=81#comment252 Throwing good money after bad can treat symptoms.And only temporarily.The cause is systemic though: corrupt, socialist-prone welfare states spending many times more than their economies would allow.Greece is merely a tip of an iceberg; Portugal, Spain and Ireland are next.I don't know whether EUSSR is dead, but euro is in a deep doodoo. Wed 12 May 2010 13:36:48 GMT+1 turkishdaisy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=81#comment251 240. At 10:27am on 12 May 2010, PayPay wrote:Greece is an economic parasite on the European union, and to save a parasite is ridiculous..........................dear paypay;assertive sentences!!:) parazites can only lives and feed within the host organism's body,we know.. and if the host body(EU) are dead; what will happen then? Wed 12 May 2010 13:13:24 GMT+1 LaurenW http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=80#comment250 It's amazing what a narrow understanding of the world some people have. UK people should wake up and smell the coffee. We are in the same situation as the Greek people and that of so many other countries, including the US!! Corrupted, self-serving and incompetent politicians and regulators have allowed wild capitalism to run our countries into the ground. A few, without scruples, have made huge fortunes in the process, whilst the vast majority of the populus is bankrupt and now required to accept further sacrifices and prop up the economy. Most of EU funding goint to developing countries such as Greece, Romania, Bulgaria is inefficiently spent, most ends up in the pockets of a few corrupted locals which must be lining the pockets of the EU politicians too in order to get away with it; a total waste of our taxes. No rescue measure anywhere in Europe will help until such time that the confidence of the European peoples in a just and fair society across the continent is restored! We need to look at and address the heart of the problems, not merely fix up the consequences as we go along - blindingly!! Wed 12 May 2010 13:11:30 GMT+1 ilPadrino http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=80#comment249 Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic..... Wed 12 May 2010 12:57:16 GMT+1 Tibor http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=80#comment248 240. At 10:27am on 12 May 2010, PayPay wrote:"Greece is an economic parasite on the European union, and to save a parasite is ridiculous.Maby these Greeks should have stopped wasting their money on buying plates to break..."With respect, where YOUR dept came from? Wed 12 May 2010 12:36:03 GMT+1 Robert Gomez http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=79#comment247 Everyone, including governments, are up in arms that oil drillers have no contingency plan for spills such as the one in the Gulf of Mexico. Sadly, governments are do not hold themselves to a similar standard. Wed 12 May 2010 12:36:02 GMT+1 time for change http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=79#comment246 Unfortunately what we are seeing is the Euro in it's true light. It's only as good as it's weakest part. As long as there are countries within the euro that are not doing well then the ones that are will suffer and as a result weaken there own economies. Thank god that we didn't go in as we would be saddled with even more bills to pay for countries that make no contribution.The United States of Europe will never work ... at least not as long as Bankers and Greedy Politicians have their say in it and use it for their own agenda's . Give us a referendum and let the people decide . I bet Germany would come back with a resoundiung "Nein" if they were asked again !! Wed 12 May 2010 11:58:43 GMT+1 coastwalker http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=79#comment245 This time I think it will because it is a serious attempt to do the job. Wed 12 May 2010 11:29:14 GMT+1 Roy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=78#comment244 Thankfully there is very little support here for the bailout nor for the Euro. Hopefully our governments over the coming years will also see the folly of monetary union and that the other nations in the EU who are not yet in Euroland will abandon their ambitions to join. With real luck the whole experiment will be ended and all argument will cease. With a lot of luck we may also be witnessing the end of federalist ambitions by the few so that we can once again rule ourselves and simply view our European neighbours as trading partners. Just think of all the money we will save by getting rid of the European Parliament and all of its offshoots. Sadly MEP's will struggle to get new jobs as they are unfit for most purposes but there are always casualties in change. Still they should have made enough to retire comfortably. OK the end of the EU is a dream but if enough people want it, who knows. Wed 12 May 2010 10:53:39 GMT+1 GhostOfTheSun http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=78#comment243 This post has been Removed Wed 12 May 2010 10:51:06 GMT+1 webcomment http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=78#comment242 239. At 10:23am on 12 May 2010, Toothpick HarryMy sentiments entirely and the new Govt will ensure that we are even more firmly tied in to this impending disaster. Wed 12 May 2010 10:15:01 GMT+1 webcomment http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=77#comment241 #13 "knowing the gullibility of NuLabour voters, no doubt some will still support them in the next general election in October this year."But many of them do not pay tax and depend on fiscal hand-outs or are employed in non-jobs. It is therefore not just gullibility at work maintaining NuLab's voting strength Wed 12 May 2010 10:12:07 GMT+1 Reiver http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=77#comment240 I'd prefer to see this whole house-of-cards come crashing down - it was always a ludicrous idea anyway. However, if the Germans wish to dominate Europe they will have to pay for it, one way or another, as they did on the two previous occasions. Wed 12 May 2010 09:41:14 GMT+1 PayPay http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=77#comment239 Greece is an economic parasite on the European union, and to save a parasite is ridiculous.Maby these Greeks should have stopped wasting their money on buying plates to break, and actually start working for a change. Wed 12 May 2010 09:27:52 GMT+1 Muddy Waters the 2nd http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=77#comment238 It was always destined to fail precisely for the reasons that have materialised in Greece. The poor members of Europe will always be poor and the rich will do their damnest to stay rich and never the twain shall meet. The EU has always been about domination of others by the most forceful, what some members tried to do in war they're trying to achieve through the EU, dominence of others. Anyone that kids themselves that the pompous hireachy within th EU are trying to make a better Europe had better think again. We as a nation are worse off, as a nation we have slowly been losing our identity, millions of unwanted EU immigrants swamped our shores that we under EU law have felt obliged to house and feed. Our ability to fend for ourselves has slowly been eroded, our manufacturing base has all but gone, vital utility companies are in foreign hands, more and more what is left is tat. France and Germany are the two main countries who in the recent past have tried to dominate us in the past, and who are the two pushing all the buttons now, and doing alright, France and Germany. Bring it down to simple terms, if a member of your family constantly got into financial trouble and you bailed them out, then they got into trouble again because they hadn't changed their ways, would you bail them out again? You may, but if it carried on they would eventually bring you down and that's the flaw in the Euro currency, France and Germany want the benefits of control by them, but they don't want bringing down. Wed 12 May 2010 09:23:46 GMT+1 Juan Sotolongo http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=76#comment237 This plan will never become a reality. The various governments have to approve them, and that will not happen. It is a failed strategy without the rigor to cut back on the big government, socialist approach of much of Europe. Wed 12 May 2010 09:02:01 GMT+1 turkishdaisy http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=76#comment236 CAN MARXİSİSM PROVİDE THESE?to vlad,rUsputin and the others;'rationalism is not everything and do not solve all problems'. we could not explain everything with our mind, my babies:) human have some special emotions like affection,sacrifice,devotion..we can live together with these emotions happily. can marxisim prvide them? what did it give proletariats? this ideology is empty,despotic, and barbarous, ı read Karl marx's book 'manifesto'.. but it is chaotic.. ı think ,even marx did'nt belive his saying-ideology and he knew it was only a dream which will not be real.. maybe, while he was giving his last breath, he believed in God like TOLSTOY who was one of the best writer in the world.. By the way, ı listened to 'radiohead band' 's song called idiotecq at a part of the song: '...........take the money,run. take the money,run..' this funny song is for Greece:).. Wed 12 May 2010 08:41:45 GMT+1 Yves Dee http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=76#comment235 222. At 02:49am on 12 May 2010, lordBannersPlease take your `Israel Rules OK´ rant elsewhere, please accept that this is not and will never be the time to pay further attention to you or your ill gotten lands history. We are all tired of this Holocaust yarn, get over it. You have already got more than your pound of flesh from Palestine, so enjoy that limited freedom while you still have it. The issue today is the bailout and how Europe can rise above this crisis that people of your mentality and cunning have created. I wonder how long it will take Iran to consider re-trading its oil in another currency as opposed to Euro or Dollar?. This will be the game changer for Europe and afar, I think the sooner we accept the coming crash the quicker can we begin to plan a rebuild ahead of time. Maybe Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece & Co should be allowed to default asap, there is nothing sobering in quenching a drunken country with even more whisky in the jar. Wed 12 May 2010 08:33:30 GMT+1 Marcus http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=75#comment234 With this gigantic bailout package, the Euro member states won't go bankrupt, the currency does. Wed 12 May 2010 08:29:18 GMT+1 George http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=75#comment233 It should work for a bit if the political consequences of deflationary cuts in Greece, Spain etc are overcome (a big if). But without major, and seemingly unlikely, changes by Germany to import much more from its Euro area partners, the weaker Euro economies will be back to square one sooner or later, meanwhile having endured the needless agony of severe deflation and high unemployment. The fact is that Greece, and probably Portugal, cannot live with a powerful, export led German economy and would be much better off reverting to their original, national currencies with flexibility to restore competitiveness through devaluation. This is the only realistic mechnism of economic adjustment; large scale migration of the Greek workforce to areas where there are jobs is not feasible George. Wed 12 May 2010 08:05:00 GMT+1 Brian_D http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=75#comment232 I'd like to take the analogy with the leaking bucket a little further:First of all, we stop pouring water into the bucket.In this day and age most of us would not bother trying to repair a leaking bucket - we would simply replace it with a new one.However, if we did decide to repair the bucket, we would preferably empty the bucket first. We would not attempt repairing it while it is full of water. This gives unsatisfactory results.In any case, we know very well that a repaired bucket is unreliable and that the next time it may burst its seams completely. So, keep the repaired bucket only half full for the moment. It's wiser. Wed 12 May 2010 07:34:32 GMT+1 NoHope NoChance http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=74#comment231 I cannot understand how the EU gangsters(parliament) have the nerve to tell people how to run their economies. They allowed these economies to join the EU - oh suprise they are collapsing. From a coalition of ministers who cannot even get their own records audited and in order, they are hyprocrits.You europhiles may condem Britain for not being in the Euro but we are not looking so silly now are we? The next step is to get out of the whole european thing altogether and leave you to wallow in your mess. Wed 12 May 2010 07:34:12 GMT+1 Dixie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=74#comment230 The situation, or location of the Elgin Marbles is completely irrelevant as far as the Euro is concerned... And regarding the Euro - let it collapse, as it should... My bet is the Germans will be the first to bail-out... Wed 12 May 2010 07:23:44 GMT+1 thallon http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=74#comment229 how can you help an unemployed poor man in debt, why give hima loan. What's going on, their cutting greek wages and pensions, so how can the economy recover if consumers can't consume? Sure they saved the stockmarkets, and the Euro, but what about the people? Are they not just keeping a big bubble afloat? its just going to be a bigger crash. Wed 12 May 2010 07:22:42 GMT+1 Yves Dee http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=73#comment228 The bailout was never designed to bailout anyone, its purpose was to solely bring us one step closer to a single global government and currency system. The IMF/FED (private banks), have calculated and manipulated this bailout to fail. The Euro was in a big hole and the speedy convenience of a Sunday night bailout package was just a shovel handed to Europe to dig us even deeper, thus rendering Europe on its knees and at the mercy of a New World Order. The EU Stability Package will speed up the process of decline, cruel austerity measures, global bankruptcy and helplessness. By winter 2010, we will all realise the flaws of wishful thinking and passive quick fixes. There are only two magical solutions out of this free fall to global despair, the first and most probable solution is warfare on a grand scale with the aftermath giving way to re-inventing and re-thinking foreign and domestic policy (for those who survive). The second option and least likely choice will be to abolish the Euro and the Federal Reserve before 2011 and go back to our previous national currency. This will be an equally devasting process but not as bloody. We no longer have the luxury of trying to survive with financial/business ventures, we now have to adapt and learn how to `literally´ survive with our gut instincts. Wed 12 May 2010 07:20:21 GMT+1 lacerniagigante http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=73#comment227 ENGLISH BREAKFAST AND THE GREEK STATUES QUOTEAs usual Britain never misses her chance to confirm the cliché the continentals have of her. "Déjeuner à l'Anglaise" (English Breakfast) is a well-known expression, whereby someone shows up for the food, but is never there when the bill is on the table.When bailing out London-based banks was the issue (not any more responsible than the late Greek government by the way) the whole (fortunately defunct) nuLab war machine was there, in Bruxelles pulling by the sleeves annoyed Germans and French. Now that it's time to help out, Mr Darling is retracting. I don't believe Dave "pathétique" Cameron is going to show more grace, despite having been forced to included a decent element in his government (in fact, the only party that has a reasonable and fair position towards the Continent).Amid all this Europhobic and Hellenophobic talk, shouldn't we remind ourselves that Britons are indebted to the Greeks in many ways. Take the Marbles that Lord Elgin cut into pieces in 1816 in order to siphon them out to London, from Constantinople/Istanbul five years before Greece was independent. Greece has been asking for years for these artifacts to be rightfully repatriated, but has received (unsurprisingly) an English Breakfast response.Isn't it time young (and old) Britons rediscover their heritage of fairness and generosity? For example, by studying the works and life of Lord Byron, the antipodal character to Lord Elgin, who gave his life for Greece to be an independent and free country in 1824.The British majority is more Byronesque than Elgineseque, but the silence this majority is guilty of, makes Darling and the likes get their way and tarnish their image in Europe.Maybe Britain should now owe up to her reputation of "fair play" (another cliché of the island, this time positive) and take opportunity in this challenging times to return what she owes to Greece?Britain wants to keep the Marbles? Fine. Compensate Greece for all the damages, expenses, interest and arrears that GB has accumulated since the 1820's by exposing the Greek statues in their museums as if they were their own. Wed 12 May 2010 06:36:02 GMT+1 Tibor http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=73#comment226 Many smarts thoughts here to read. However the main issue probably is that Greece is not in the position to print money unlike the UK or the US, who virtually able to dilute some of their dept of similar magnitude, than give a lesson to Greece who can't do that. The pattern is frightening, as now being in dept is the normal state of mind. Resolution could come on many ways in the near future, but none of the alternatives would please us, or our children and grandchildren... Wed 12 May 2010 05:32:03 GMT+1 Nick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=72#comment225 If by "work," you mean driving us all to a Weimar style hyperinflation then yes, yes it will work. How long before we realize that we cannot realistically bailout the massive amount of gambling losses without destroying every currency involved. We would do better to bring about a "Glass-Steagall" separation of commercial and investment banks across the globe. This way the legitimate savings and loan operations, which are so vital to any economy, will be insulated by a firewall of protection, while the investment houses holding toxic assets can go through bankruptcy as they ought to. Wed 12 May 2010 05:13:38 GMT+1 logic-al http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=72#comment224 With the offer of a share of 750 billion euros on the table, I think more EU countries will be honest about their finances, knowing there is an automatic bail-out. Albeit, at the cost of the better economies. Spain is already making noises while looking at the free cash. Surely, the international money markets realise this isn't a proper repair, it's a dodgy patch over the hole. Wed 12 May 2010 04:35:03 GMT+1 TeaPot562 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=72#comment223 IF the Greek politicians can sell the recipients of government pensions and other government largesse into cutting what they receive to match the incoming taxes, they may be able to retain a stable Euro. But don't bet on it. The bail-out can postpone the day of reckoning; but if the Greek govt. doesn't reform its habits, they'll use up all the bail-out funds and the last state of this alcoholic will be worse than the first.Germany by contributing can save Greece for a while; but the USA under Bush II and Obama also is spending in a profligate manner. Will China or Japan agree to bail out the US? Don't bank on it! Then comes the dollar devaluation and a poorer standard of living for Joe average.TeaPot562 Wed 12 May 2010 04:12:08 GMT+1 Stuart Pearson http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=71#comment222 I've always believed what my mother taught me: That you never better your situation by getting into debt... I think that there will be a "Honeymoon Period" of some 6 Months to a year, confidence and belief will be the general feeling - yet in the longer term: It'll be like putting a Broken Glass back together, forever full of cracks and lacking in strength.... Wed 12 May 2010 03:24:17 GMT+1 lordBanners http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=71#comment221 177 john doe. Oh you poor disadvantaged victim of the Persecuted Complex. Holocaust DID Happen, I volunteered to fight for Israel in the 67 War, am Christian with Jewish Relatives. NONE of which negates that Israel has manipulated the West into Supporting and Defending a System which would be TOTALLY rejected by their Electorate, simply by Identifying with Europe, pretending to be part of US while invoking Lack-of-Transparency of Mid-East. A Stroke of GENIUS really. Unwitting Co-Conspirators who know NOTHING.It is by Israel's efforts more than anything else which dilutes Horror of the Holocaust. Genocide & Ethnic Cleansing occur too often, too regularly, and Israel more than any other should be Leading the fight to END Tyranny. Wed 12 May 2010 01:49:04 GMT+1 David Gussie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=71#comment220 The EU stabiltity package will work for a while, but there will be other EU members who will eventually need help from member nations. There should be an economic plan, or monitary fund set in place before another EU nation finds itself in an economic mess. Without pre-existing economic plans what ifs can easily become reality. No nation in the European Union is exempt from an eventual severe downturn, and Greece certainly is not the last nation in the economic union who will eventually need a bail out. Wed 12 May 2010 00:27:45 GMT+1 gerhard seeger http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=70#comment219 For this much Money,it should better work,but will it?Or only put a short stop before it really starts spreading.Before the Euro A Professor Wilhehlm Hannkel,a German,Warned against the Euro,He and some of his collegeges,also Finacical Experts,filed a Lawsuit against d Euro before the Bundesvervassungsgeruicht-thats something like a Suppremecourt-but the Smart Judges dismissed the case,not their business they said. I latly read again and listened to Prof.Hankels speeches,its not out that the EURO could fail. what an Embaressment for Europe that what be.And who would be the winner?the same who won with putting the Euro in place,would also win if all the Countrys would have to go back to their original Currancy. Wed 12 May 2010 00:13:42 GMT+1 keithusuk http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=70#comment218 Its Animal Farm in reverse where they try to make ALL the members equal. If membership was based on financial qualification not raw political power grabs by Brussels politicians, the EU would never have expanded beyond its original base. The Euro has gotten way over valued and like all bubbles it has its periodic pop. This is one and when it sinks to 1 on 1 with the US $ - expect it to stabalize. Tue 11 May 2010 23:32:20 GMT+1 sgt http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=70#comment217 Being from USA, the massive 600 Billion dollar bailout of Banks, Mortage Lenders, GM, Wall St. speculators etc. is similar to the EU quandry. Bottom line is, ALL hard-working people pay into the tax base, which is indiscriminately used to BAIL-OUT "Greedy Money Pirates"; mind you, the elected leaders are forced through "FEAR", to BAIL everyone out. Part of it is saving face, garnishing future votes, whatever the reason is, the DEFAULTERS inherently ALREADY KNOW, THEY WILL BE "Bailed out of Jail". There is no punishment for failure, no actual policy in place that is enforced upon greedy speculators that have wiped out the life savings of honest, frugal workers. When all is said and done, Greece, Spain,etc., will always be the "Welfare Nations", entitled to a BAILOUT. Sorry, the EU has inherited eternal "Deadbeats". Tue 11 May 2010 23:23:50 GMT+1 OscarUniformHotel http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=69#comment216 Firstly, I am not Greek, nor am I in Greece. The Greek bailout will not work. There seems to be some kind of ignorance concerning the source of this money. Billions dumped on an entire nation have to come from somewhere. The rest of Europe is headed the same direction, the EU will run out of money to actually implement the plan, especially when other nations in Europe fall. Where will the money come from then? China's money is quickly becoming worthless under inflation and deficit spending. The US can hardly keep its own head above water much less suport an entire other nation. ON PAPER, this looks really great, but the physical reality of this entire argument remains the same: it lacks the materials and the means to actually implement. Also, the human factor involved is a considerable detriment to the success of the plan. Who will monitor the greedy, selfish people doling out the cash or resources? More people with the same descriptions? Hasn't the US already faced scandal and extortion with government projects and programs even in times of great prosperity? (Teapot Dome, ACORN, etc.) Isn't the US government made of real people? Real people produce serious threats to communal well being because people are basically evil. In summary, the plan and baiout will epically fail. Tue 11 May 2010 22:31:38 GMT+1 london Stock Exchange http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=69#comment215 This is result of a failed european socialist experiment.Held together with shaky politics and no sound foundation of economic viability.Now is the time to unravel this socialist disaster!Greece must leave the monetry union.For the UK this is a timely reminder to re negotiate our involvment in this EU socialist state and to reduce our finacial contribution to this bucket! Tue 11 May 2010 21:19:18 GMT+1 richardcalhoun http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=69#comment214 The plain answer is NO, this package is an attempt to delay the inevitable, the Euro will fail Tue 11 May 2010 21:01:00 GMT+1 Callum http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=68#comment213 WOW!!! Theres some really good comments there, wish I hadn't read them all like, hasn't cheered me up!! I think most people have been living like they've taken a drug, it feels great, great fun earning money, going on holiday, buying a flash car, new clothes BUT noe the hangovers kicking in! Tue 11 May 2010 20:31:49 GMT+1 zathros http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=68#comment212 190. At 2:59pm on 11 May 2010, The Ghosts of John Galt wrote:More of the same. Just think of the simple words Christ used. They have outlasted all the others. "Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself". If you hate yourself, well then that's a problem, eh? Those simple words have many messages in them, in the event you are seeking to enlighten people unto happiness, but I am sorry my friend, for of this forum, it is as "casting pearls unto swine". Tue 11 May 2010 20:28:54 GMT+1 The Ghosts of John Galt http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=68#comment211 205. At 8:05pm on 11 May 2010, PJ Blazkowicz Why would you have a issue with comments which make reference to philosophical ideas and argument? Would you prefer I made reference to the arguments of Plato or Sartre? Or how about Nietzsche All expression of such ideas must find their basis in something! It would be a bit pointless for "the ghosts of John Galt" not to refer to such arguments! I take it, you fail to grasp the point of the exercise! Tue 11 May 2010 20:25:37 GMT+1 Callum http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=67#comment210 This is ridiculous, I think its time for Scotland and England to split up, I think around 90% of Scots voted for other parties. If the Tories are to be in power, a coalition with the Lib Dems makes it more bearable but still a load of rubbish. Some people in England couldn't even vote, we're powerless, load of crap getting this posh guy clueless about benefits (- noone can claim benefits without proving how hard they're trying to get jobs, after so long they have to take the first job available so noones on the doll because they're lazy, eh?, its so they can survive!). I think labour have done as well as any party could in the worldwide economical situation. Our countrys in debt because they SPENT MONEY ON US, our money that is, the TORIES probably will and would have taken more MONEY FROM US. Tue 11 May 2010 20:15:39 GMT+1 Chris http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/will_the_eu_stability_package.html?page=67#comment209 The gift of loans will delay the failure, but the only way to cure the problem is a war with China. Tue 11 May 2010 20:03:38 GMT+1