Comments for en-gb 30 Tue 16 Sep 2014 20:49:49 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at exlabour There are plenty of portraits in Islamic Art, especially Persian Sun 02 May 2010 11:03:03 GMT+1 ian cheese 436. At 7:14pm on 30 Apr 2010, Terry wrotere-burqas...It makes one wonder what family photos must look like, whats the point of them? 'Images' are haram i.e. forbidden in Islam, that is why Islamic art is purely calligraphic & abstract. Perhaps the question of peversity ought also to be addressed i.e. hiding a woman in a tent! Sun 02 May 2010 10:50:14 GMT+1 righteoussasquatch If by wearing a burka someone can hide their identity from a Police Officer sufficient to evade arrest then it should be banned. Surely the new passport/identity card will require facial recognition? Sun 02 May 2010 10:44:07 GMT+1 inchindown Yes. It is unacceptable to hide your identity in a public place. Sun 02 May 2010 10:41:11 GMT+1 Roger Smith Try putting a stocking over your head and then entering a jewelers. Sun 02 May 2010 10:36:05 GMT+1 plainspeak1 1074 Maroof BegIf you really believed Western Europe was 'secular and progressive' then you were badly misled.Why would you think we'd be any different to the Middle East or Asia in the value we place on the faith that has underpinned our values and traditions for thirteen hundred years ?Just because people don't go to church, it doesn't mean they don't consider themselves Christian. And why on earth would you imagine that even those who called themselves secularists would want to get rid of one faith, Christianity, and allow in another, more restrictive one?There's been alot of bosh talked about the supposed tolerance and multi-cultural openness of the UK and, I suspect, Europe, in the last ten years, and it's now coming home to roost. People have been afraid to say what they really think because of repressive gagging laws. Media such as the BBC have played their part by refusing to allow proper debate. Now the myths are being exposed and there's a degree of shock. The fault lies with this government, its immigration policy and its refusal to listen to the people. Sun 02 May 2010 10:35:32 GMT+1 Eagle Eye I do sincerely feel that it's time for all Secular, Progressive, Democratic & Human Rights respecting countries, to do away with the "Burkha". It is highly regressive, feudal and primitive in nature & should not have any place in a progressive, secular & democratic State. The earlier we realised this the better. The West would do good by showing the path, maybe accompanied by some democracies in the East. But do democracies in the East have the guts to usher in such progressive change, yet ? Maybe, may not be, let us see & hope for the best. Sun 02 May 2010 10:35:12 GMT+1 Rufus McDufus Wearing a motorcycle helmet or even a hat is banned in many public places. Helmets because they obscure the face and are banned in shops/shopping centres/banks/bars etc. and hats/caps are barred in many pubs because they can conceal weapons. On this basis I'd say it's really down to the business involved as to whether burkas should not be allowed (they hide the face so preventing facial recognition obviously).From a national security perspective, the burka clearly poses an identity issue so potentially it should be banned. It's arguably not even necessary under most versions of Muslim law anyway. Don't forget we've even had cases where male terrorist suspects have escaped the law dressed in a burka. Sun 02 May 2010 10:33:42 GMT+1 tamms001 What does pzero stand for?Point Zero? I suggest you are not having a "Gordon Brown" moment,I think that your bigotry is chocking you up.When the British colonized around the world did they change their clothes to try to blend in?Wake up and smell the tea, man.The Britain that you're talking about does not exist.Muslims are not necessarily immigrants.There are almost 2 billion muslims in the world and they are not all from somewhere else. People convert all the time, right here in jolly old England. You want women to lift the cover off their faces? Why dont you lift the cover off your brain.Its wrong to be fanatical and small-minded in either direction. Sun 02 May 2010 10:24:45 GMT+1 exlabour People who are mentioning western colonialism as being a factor in the radicalising of moslems in the middle east have a very valid point to make. This problem won't go away while politicians like Blair and Brown insist on sending troops to middle eastern countries. If anything this will exacerbate it.This, however, doesn't mean that we can forget about previous colonisations.Moslem Arabs swept up from their country and took over the whole of North Africa, Spain, parts of France and Italy. Wherever they went they imposed through violence their religion and customs.Their religion was further spread by Turks and Mongols who each invaded Greece and the Balkans. The Turks of course were at the gates of Vienna in Mozart's time. The Mongols went on to invade India, imposing Islam and ventured further south into South East Asia where the poplulations are still by and large moslem.Colonialism and empire building are wrong whoever does it. And colonists and empire builders should not expect the native people of their conquests to bow down meekly.The French drove the moslems out of France, this was followed by the liberation of Spain. Byron was famous for going to Greece to help in their liberation struggle against the Turks.Someone has already mentioned Vlad the impaler who obviously thought he had a point to make.The problems of Serbia and the former Jugoslavia of course are still with us.Of course some former empires won't give up. The Roman Empire is trying to resurrect itself through the Treaty of Rome and the EU.The trappings of empire, like the burka, are always the first things to be imposed by the conquerors. Next comes thought control with death for free thinking. Sun 02 May 2010 10:16:05 GMT+1 pb 1074. Mohd Maroof Beg wrote: "Such a step goes on proving that the so called secular and progressive called European countries are just a farce and are dictated by their hatred for the Muslim world."On balance I find myself against the Burqua but you make a good point.People on HYS use Saudi Arabia as an example - western women have to follow local rules and dress modestly. Its a poor example. In Saudi they impose this rule because it is required by their faith - Belgium is certainly being driven by darker motives. Sun 02 May 2010 10:15:21 GMT+1 pb 1080. exlabour wrote: "All the pakistani moslem women where I live wear silk pyjamas when out and about. They don't seem to want to wear burkas and nobody raises any objection whatsoever."To what extent is the Burqa a political statement here in the UK? However, the way Muslems have been sometimes villified I could understand some women wanting to retire from peoples gazes. Sun 02 May 2010 10:09:19 GMT+1 Peter I'm not sure that this view of the burka's role in the 'oppression of women' holds up any more.In the UK there is a growing tendency for relatively independent muslim women to choose the veil purely as political expression. It's now quite common in London to hear burka-wearing women chatting and cussing much like any other women, whilst offering hard, aggressive looks to anyone daring to glance their way. There are also many who hide their faces but seem quite happy to let their robes reveal the fitted clothes and high heels beneath. In Britain at least, it's not the result of ancient islamic dictates but rather a new and disturbing trend whose sole purpose is segregation and confrontation. Ban them - it will be difficult and troublesome to achieve but it's the right thing to do. Sun 02 May 2010 10:07:28 GMT+1 Tim N 'Ban the wearing of anything that obscures the individual identity'?So you'd better get ready to throw your sunglasses away, or your baseball cap, and don't whatever you do grow a beard or have your hair cut. And while we're at it, why not ban bald people from wearing a wig, or one-eyed people from wearing a prosthetic eye?To western minds the burka may be an oddity and I for one can't understand why anyone would want to wear one. But there is no way that I could ever support a ban. I'll go further than that. As a middle-aged white Tory-supporting male, if this country ever passes a law banning the wearing of burkas I will get one of my own and walk down Whitehall wearing it!Europe has seen this sort of petty bigotted prejudice and rule-making before. And it ended in six years of total war. Sun 02 May 2010 10:06:35 GMT+1 pb 1079. exlabour wrote: "Americans are proud of their right to bear arms. I can't seem to recall seeing fully armed cowboys swaggering down Oxford Street."Maybe I wasn't paying attention but when I was last in the USA I don't remember any on the streets of Washingtopn - or when I previously visited San-Fransisco and Baltimore. A pitty really - I could have done with some gun-toutin' cowboys when I got mugged in Baltimore. Didn't even see the cavalry come galloping over the horizon just in the nick of town. There wasn't even a posse after the event. Just maybe "kimosabe" does mean "you look like a horses backside". Sun 02 May 2010 10:05:57 GMT+1 pb 1077. exlabour wrote: "Just imagine the three stooges on television dressed from head to toe in black...We would be able to judge their wonderful arguments without bias. We wouldn't know who was the pretty one and who was the beast."Brown, cameron and Clegg - aqt least we would have to listen to their policies and it would solve the problem of ignorant people voting because they like the look of a particular candidate.I think you just sold me on the Burqua! Sun 02 May 2010 10:01:58 GMT+1 exlabour All the pakistani moslem women where I live wear silk pyjamas when out and about. They don't seem to want to wear burkas and nobody raises any objection whatsoever.Would a burka wearer call them indecently dressed? Sun 02 May 2010 10:01:52 GMT+1 exlabour Americans are proud of their right to bear arms. I can't seem to recall seeing fully armed cowboys swaggering down Oxford Street.Do they adapt to British custom when here? Sun 02 May 2010 09:57:03 GMT+1 Mark B Isn't it interesting how many comments have been banned / taken off on here? I would suggest this just show how much the feeling is for banning the burka... (let's face it the majority of censored comments will be in favour of banning it) Sun 02 May 2010 09:56:08 GMT+1 exlabour Everyone should be forced to wear burkas, even men and children. Then the present day burka wearers will protest that it is their right not to wear one. Problem solved.Of course I don't really mean that but I do think that politicians should be forced to wear them. Just imagine the three stooges on television dressed from head to toe in black trying to convice the electorate that they've been sent by god to save the world or at least Britain. We would be able to judge their wonderful arguments without bias. We wouldn't know who was the pretty one and who was the beast. Sun 02 May 2010 09:53:57 GMT+1 Mark B Yes. Sun 02 May 2010 09:52:12 GMT+1 Peter Please stop comparing the burka to hoodies and crash helmets. The former doesn't hide the face and the latter isn't worn by people on the street or in shops. If hoddie-wearers suddenly took to wearing bandanas over their faces cowboy style, you can bet a law would be passed and for very good reason. Human communication and interaction relies on facial visibility - fact. No one should have the right to disguise their feelings in such a confrontational manner. Sun 02 May 2010 09:50:45 GMT+1 Mohd Maroof Beg Such a step goes on proving that the so called secular and progressive called European countries are just a farce and are dictated by their hatred for the Muslim world.The fear the West has from the success of Islam as a religion and culture is driving them crazy to resolve to such stooping levels of denying basic human INDEPENDENCE.. Sun 02 May 2010 09:50:28 GMT+1 Bigray250 This post has been Removed Sun 02 May 2010 09:48:39 GMT+1 pb 1025.Alexander Baldal wrote: "Muslims have been under attack since the West developed better weapons some 100 years ago. They have been humiliated by the West so much that the suicide bombings are an expression of their despair. The curious inability to adapt modern humanitarian ideas will forever set them back from free thinkers. However the West is abusing its power horribly and if the repercussions are unexpected, so much for intelligence."I agree with this comment. I'm not daft enough to say one side is all right and the other is all wrong - I think there is much good and much bad in the islamic and non-islamic societies. We may be free-er thinkers in the west - but so are Lemmings! Hmmm, maybe lemmings is a good example since running off a clif was a media invention and much of our modern "free thinking" is influenced by the media.The West has is abused its power - and I think you might find that the middle east has a longer memory than we do in the west. Sun 02 May 2010 09:37:43 GMT+1 Sal Yes, it should. People who like this kind of dress can always go to afghanistan Sun 02 May 2010 09:36:06 GMT+1 pb I've been following a few exchanges with comments from Mohammad A Dar and have even raised a complaint to the moderators about one posting (#924). The moderators have rejected my complaint so I am now confused by what they define to be "homophobic". I think comments posted Mohammad A Dar highlight a huge problem. Mohammad A Dar's views are quite 'extreme' (fundamentalist) but even amongst many more westernised moslems I have met over the years there is much distate for the way we live. How then can we build a peaceful multi-cultural society with this ever present tension? In the mid 80s A moslem once told me that amongst his social circle westerners were seen as having no worth. Whether this is true I cannot say - but it does not give me hope for the future. Sun 02 May 2010 09:20:36 GMT+1 chrisk50 If any company requests the person to remove the 'Mask' then they should do so by law, and that is anything that covers the face. I would make it law that every persons face must be visible when entering public buildings. Sun 02 May 2010 09:00:41 GMT+1 MartiB Yes it should! Motorcyclists are asked to remove their helmets in certain establishments. Some shopping centres have an issue with baseball hats and hoodies. So why should wearers of the Burka be treated any differently.It has already been used by terrorists to evade capture, so were does it stop.If I travel to muslim countries, I have to obey their laws, there has been reason cases where Dubai has jailed westerners for kissing in public.It is time we started pandering to every section of society, it is our Country and we should be living how we wish to live. If people wish to come here, then fine but they do so by abiding by out laws, customs and way of life, not theirs. The same as we have to when we visit their's. Sun 02 May 2010 09:00:18 GMT+1 ColinWhinger It is refreshing to see a government with the guts to make such a correct decision, over here it seems the best prospect we have got is the insane suggestion of the supposed prime minister designate telling us to " go hug a hoodie". What's the quickest route to Belgium please? Sun 02 May 2010 08:59:21 GMT+1 Marie Harris Everyone should have the right to wear what they want. It is part of freedom of expression.Choosing to wear a burka is an expression of faith. Not all woman wear it because they are forced to by men. They express there freedom of choice by wearing it. I believe it would be a sad day for Britain if they banned people from expressing their faith in this way. Sun 02 May 2010 08:53:57 GMT+1 Chris Interesting article in today's Independent. Sun 02 May 2010 08:50:33 GMT+1 my-opinion Being photographed en masse in the nude....civilised??Teenage drunks in the street....civilised??Rampant teenage sex and pregnancy and STDs.....civilised??Fornicating on beaches and in parks in public....civilised??Ridicule of God and His Teachings.....civilised??Yes, I see now why a few women wearing a piece of fabric would inflame sentiments to such a degree. May God bless and protect them. Sun 02 May 2010 08:46:50 GMT+1 Adrian Paris Singer-Carter It is against the law to cover One's face except during a recognised Cancival. That being so, the Law Must apply to everyone, regardless of race, religion or gender. The Burka must be banned and the Law upheld.Also, quietly, there is nothing in The Koran about Women needing to cover their faces, regardless of what some men may think. Therefore it is a scandal that male predudices agaist Women should, once again, pun intended. Sun 02 May 2010 08:38:36 GMT+1 Alasdair Campbell Throughout the ages, humans have communicated with each other using speech, gestures and, yes, facial expressions to convey recognition, friendship and at times disapproval and hostility. Sight of our fellow humans' facial expressions is fundamental to the way we are and how we relate to each other. Knights in armour, approaching each other, would lift their helmet visors as a friendly gesture and to expose their faces. In the age of man, Islam is a relatively recent faith, and in some of its visible forms, although acknowledged as 'acceptable' in regions where Islam is the pre-dominant faith, sit uneasily in those parts of the world where the majority are non-Moslems. In the latter case, I believe the wearing of the burka that hides the face in public to be unacceptable. Sun 02 May 2010 08:32:46 GMT+1 plainspeak1 Tashi 882 wrote..."What is British culture? Britain does not have a culture..."You're right, many British cities don't have a culture any more. They have become so multi-cultural English people like me feel like they're in a foreign country when they go to London, for example. But don't think I like this. And you should see, from the current furore about immigration, that I am far from alone. Millions of us do not live in cities, we live in smaler communities where British culture is alive, well and simply the way we live, fundamentally unchanged and hugely valued. We are the people who are saying No to those who won't integrate. Your view of this country is myopic. Don't presume to tell the people of this country they don't have a culture. And don't try to impose your culture, which is that of another continent, on us. Sun 02 May 2010 08:24:13 GMT+1 elder_citizen We are living in different times, and religious and culture dress are no longer suitable in public. Hidden faces, long dress, all tend to hide other objectives or motivation. Terrorist have long used familiar things to hide behind, and now in the interest of public safety, burka and other things that hide a persons face should be banned in public. Sad, but we have entered an era of dangerous mistrust. Sun 02 May 2010 08:13:44 GMT+1 Don2058 I can't see this as a religious issue, it's just common sense. I ride a motorbike and own a long black leather coat, if I wore these into a bank, filling station or indeed newsagents, many of which are run by muslims, the proprietors would be completely justified in questioning who I am and be suspicious of my motives. I am not a criminal or have any criminal intentions but they don't know that. To these establishments I'm just a stranger and one of the first steps to building trust is for both parties to see who each other is dealing with. This is not about C.C.TV, which I am totally against, or religious or human rights it's about people learning to trust each other and live together, this can't be achieved if one party covers themselves up completely. Sun 02 May 2010 08:07:58 GMT+1 read between the lies The Koran says that women should dress MODESTLY it does not say they should be covered head to toe covering their facesEgypt and Turkey are both Muslim countries and have both BANNED the Burka so it cannot be argued that it is essential in any way to the religion.In Glasgow an Asian Jewellery shop was robbed by men in Burkas, they now do not allow anyone inn a burka to enterThere have been cases where women in burkas have sat driving tests for others meaning there are potentialy dangerous women on the road who never passed a test.In a bank anyone with a motorcycle helmet has to remove it but not a burkaI have muslim friends and relatives and they say it is not part of Islam.And yes I would ban hoodies and wearing scarves over the face and wearing motorcycle helmets when not riding a motorcycleHow can society integrate to route out racism hen sector of the community decides to segregate itself?Why do they not want to be part of society? Sun 02 May 2010 08:06:33 GMT+1 parlau Covering up facial features poses problems for recognition, something necessary in society, for example in communication where expressions say as much as words, or for security via CCTV or safety as in the ability to see properly when driving.I find mask of any kind threatening too.Such devices should be banned in a civilized society. Sun 02 May 2010 07:52:02 GMT+1 aviano How do i know that the person behind dressed in the black gown is a man or a woman? this question was asked to me by my 12 year old niece when a burqa clad man/woman was walking behind us for some time on the high street.Does one have to resort to a close visual inspection to answer such questions? Sun 02 May 2010 07:49:05 GMT+1 swerdna There are usually few racial problems in this country and it is unlikely that there will be future racial problems here unless immigration continues out of control.However, future problems will likely arise because of culrural differences. Throughout modern history, it is the clash of cultures that cause the biggest problems.Migrants to this country MUST comply and fit in with our general culture. They will then find how accomodating most Brits are when accepting foreigners as UK citizens. We Brits are most definitely not so accomodating when comfronted with different cultures being imposed on our society.The Burka is one such culture clash. It is not a religious requirement to wear them. The same could be said for Sikh turban where, for political reasons, British Sikh policemen can wear a different uniform to other police officers even though the Sikh religion demands only that the head be covered.I find this all too much and panders straight into the views of the far right in this country. Sun 02 May 2010 07:37:24 GMT+1 cococheese 1011. At 10:57pm on 01 May 2010, mabnuv wrote:"Burkha is not a subject of choice. Do you think any woman would choose wearing such kind of dress in the middle of the western culture?Burkha is a forced dress. Muslim men force the women to wear it. Women are so kindhearted beings that none of them would spoil the community with their dress."What utter nonsense. Some women clearly do *choose* to wear it, presumably due to their religious convictions, which they are entirely entitled to. The principle here is that people are free to choose what they wear. If there is a problem with people being forced to do things against their will then I (obviously) agree that's wrong but you need to think of a way to address *that* problem directly without trampling over the rights of others. Sun 02 May 2010 07:36:26 GMT+1 Mohammed Qaisar It's not rediculous that the countries who to be claimer of Human rights and tried from all angles to fight for women's rights and equality. When a woman wish to wear her own choice then why it seems against the human right? Sun 02 May 2010 07:26:35 GMT+1 brutal_reality2010 Re: 1049. At 07:52am on 02 May 2010, Abdul Malik Niazi wrote:To ban burka, in a democratic country, is against the very principles of democracy. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - So is blowing up your own innocent people, we don't see that stopping. When radical martyrs from all religions and military factions quit walking into markets with suicide bombs, maybe modern civilization will allow people to hide behind masks from each other. Quit trying to guilt people into conforming when everyone knows darn well that face covering is not the norm in most modern societies in this the 21st century. Sun 02 May 2010 07:20:47 GMT+1 Autar Dhesi The relevance of cultural traditions and its symbols is context specific.ith change in context,they lose their significance and may rather become source of misunderstanding. The origin of face-veil is traced to the Christian-ruled Byzantine empire.It was considered a device to protect women in the absence of their male protectors engaged in battles away from home.Later,the veil became part of Muslim culture during conquest of Byzantine empire by Arabs.At present it is prevalent among Muslim women only. However,there are more than half a dozen different forms of veil that are popular across the world. Some of them look quite graceful. In liberal Muslim countries, Hijab,Al-mira,Shalya and Chador are the most popular forms of veil.The western countries find only Burqua and probably Niqab quite out of place. It is suggested the Muslim communities in these countries should debate this issue among themselves objectively and suggest an acceptable solution in their long term interest. Sun 02 May 2010 07:20:34 GMT+1 joyswy22 In Egypt, the niqab (burka doesn't exist here) is used occasionally by men to hide as women and do abominable things with other women, or used by women themselves to hide while on the streets until they reach their destination and strip it off, not to mention those who wear it on religious grounds either out of their own will or that of the males in their lives (fathers, brothers, husbands...). So I think it's important for anyone to know the identity of people around them... it's about safety... and to those who say God ordered it, the answer can be that God created humans with active minds that they should make use of rather than stick to religious texts blindly. Sun 02 May 2010 06:56:44 GMT+1 Abdul Malik Niazi To ban burka, in a democratic country, is against the very principles of democracy. Sun 02 May 2010 06:52:50 GMT+1 samyak gowda 501. At 9:30pm on 30 Apr 2010, Mumbaikar wrote:I dont know how does anyone gets hurt when they see a woman wearing burka, If anyone can explain please do it.And if it is only a political issues. By which you want to oppress any religion or community then god is watching have fear.------Just like how you'd get hurt if you see an innocent person in shackles or cuffs.Either you're truly ignorant (which is okay) or you're feigning innocence.Burkha is as much a choice of a woman as it is the choice of a prisoner to love his master (and there's a word for it - stockholm syndrome). Burkha is as much a choice of a woman as it is the choice of a young boy to be a Camel jockey. And Burkha is as much a choice of a woman as it is the choice of a horse to run a race."god is watching over".Wake up. God is watching your bigoted comments also. That is unless you have matured enough already to doubt the existence of god.BY THE WAY, I strongly urge Indians and Indian government to push for banning Burkha and also imposing uniform civil code in India. And I vote for Congress party. Sun 02 May 2010 06:18:28 GMT+1 Gary Roberts This is getting silly: the endgame looks like a uniform for everyone. So you can't expose too much of yourself, and you can't hide too much either. Laws that say there are certain body areas that MUST be publicly visible, and others that specify that some body areas CANNOT be publicly visible. Where does this lead, and why not just let people make their own decisions. OK, you can't run around naked everywhere (but you can in certain areas of health clubs and spas); you can't run around covered up too much, are there going to be regulations about how far a hat can come down over your eyes? Wearing a low hat plus a surgical or pollution-prevention mask together is now prohibited. Which colors are still acceptable? Sun 02 May 2010 06:08:30 GMT+1 elfrieda #Richard 13 .could not agree more , when in Rome etc , if we go to any country islamic ... we are forced by law to wear their code of dress i.e. ladies cover up , in Saudi no kissing or having sex in public ! ( not a bad law this one ) what im getting at is this is OUR country we have had laws for centuries that have worked for us ( well most of them ) but that is how we like it , we do not wish to adopt any one elses laws for OUR country and if our friends dont like it ..well tough . Sun 02 May 2010 06:07:53 GMT+1 Lyndon When I travelled in a Muslim country with my German friend, she put a veil to adjust to the culture of that country and to respect its laws.If people cannot accept that it is a law in the country in Europe where the Burka is banned and it is not a part of our society, people should find other options to their problem and move to a place where that is the law and they are more comfortable.Europe is a free society and we have our limitations, we must also protect our European culture and heritage and not let it be run over by others cultures expecting us to be a free society that we sacrifice our Culture and heritage to a point that it is overrun by others imposing their cultures on us.I don’t think it is fair for Europeans to be called a racist because he is now fighting to preserve his own culture and heritage Sun 02 May 2010 05:53:32 GMT+1 Dr Samar Arfeen no government should pass any law without consensus with the concerned minority.if burka is really a matter of security concern consensus will help in finding a solution that will be acceptable to the concerned minority.imposition of law in this fashion will ignite rage in the minds of muslim community causing hatred for government,feelings of social insecurity,inferiority and deprivation of basic rights to live. Sun 02 May 2010 05:31:10 GMT+1 Stanislav Of course burka should be banned at least in western countries. Just imagine Paris or London with all people covering their faces with paper bags? Each country should be free to choose. I don’t mind what they do back home, but “when in Rome – do as Romans do” . Or leave Rome. Sun 02 May 2010 04:55:10 GMT+1 Matt I can only speak for myself, but I find the burka not only offensive, but also somewhat intimidating. I believe it has no place in western Europe. Those who wear it may claim they do so of their own free will, but how many of us actually believe that?Facial expressions are a vital part of human interaction. The burka may make it easier to regard the wearer as an object rather than a person. Sun 02 May 2010 04:12:21 GMT+1 Tibor I think that it is more than just a dress code:When the general tension is eased, new provocation or radicalization appears from the thin air. On the Western side of course... Wish I was wrong. Sun 02 May 2010 04:07:06 GMT+1 Donna In my opinion, burka is a type of dress fit to the environmental circumstances. When I was touring Middle ease, in the third week, I wish I wear one too, because it fit to against the heat and the blowing sand even though I might prefer different colour. However, I don't believe a dress-code will identify with you faith -- more incline to show your emotional insecurity in your faith.I'm wearing a cheung-shan style daily wear at home, a typical traditional clothing in this part of China. But it is senseless if I worn this style in northern Part of China or in London, so to speak. Sun 02 May 2010 03:41:42 GMT+1 BarryRunningwater This is a classic clash of cultures. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your point of view, both sides are a product of the other. Muslims who feel a facial covering for women is important as a means of protecting their dignity are being insensitive to European history and culture. Yet indigenous Europeans, because of their history, have created laws which enshrine religious freedoms. Bit of a pickle. In Europe one can no sooner complain about a woman covering her face for religious reasons, as they could say, a person going a big building and worshiping in front of an old Greek-Roman execution device and eating their Saviour's body and blood. The moral here, stop complaining about the things you bring upon yourself. If you don't like your situation then stop trying to create a pluralistic, multicultural society, and go have lots of babies so that your country won't require immigrants. Should you feel incapable of doing that then kindly point toward the nearest wall when wishing to share you next thought on this matter. Anyway, there's an irony here, if Britain keeps importing in new population eventually the migrants will form the majority and everyone will be wearing burkas. Sun 02 May 2010 03:33:58 GMT+1 Andy ElMorpho wrote: I think it is ridiculous and blatantly anti-muslim. It seems to me that the corporate world does nor want muslims as they are not mass consumers. these people should have freedom of religion!We should all have the right to wear whatever we want without any form of government telling us any different! ----------------------------------------------------------------------The forced wearing of islamic dress in some countries is seen as a violation of human rights, yet when a government passes a law which would stop this, it too is seen as a human right. Slavery was a violation of human rights, yet some people probably though that the Abolition of slavery was a violation of there human right to own slaves. In Saudi Arabia the treatment of women has been referred to as "Sex segregation"[and "gender apartheid".You say so yourself - 'We should all have the right to wear whatever we want without any form of government telling us any different!' Surley that goes for woman in Saudi Arabia who are forced to cover up by the government. Sun 02 May 2010 03:19:55 GMT+1 MAXQUE Absolutely.You cannot have one section of society with people walking our streets in what is seen by many as an offensive garb to non Mulslims.We all need to see peoples faces in order to communicate effectively in everyday life as well as for our own protection.The UK has a population of over 65 million out of which a maximum of one and a half million are Muslims and of which only a small minority insist on wearing the Burka.I understand that it's an option and not a requirement of the Muslim religion.And in many cases a tool of control imposed on the women by the men.Our over sensitive approach to minorities has got to stop.We now have the crazy situation whereby the minorities are considered not eaquls but are now more important that the majority. Sun 02 May 2010 02:36:13 GMT+1 Peter Dewsnap I moved to Canada in 1967 nd lived there adopting mysyself to their system. Subsequently, I moved to the US. While I do not agree with everything here, I live according to their system. When others come from third world countries because they do not like the systems there yet try to inflict those systems on us, I say no. I say keep these people out and those who are here now, expel themPeter D South Carolina Sun 02 May 2010 02:17:09 GMT+1 David Gussie It seems like the old Europe is rising again. Why should women not be allowed to wear what they want? Are nuns told not to wear their religious dress? Telling a group that they are not allowed to wear certain clothing doesn't make any sense in an open society. With that said--Who has the right to tell people what they can and cannot wear in public. The clothing in question is not outragious. It may not go along with the norms in a certain society, but it is far from being inappropriate. Sun 02 May 2010 02:06:16 GMT+1 Mohammad A Dar This post has been Removed Sun 02 May 2010 02:06:04 GMT+1 Mohammad A Dar This post has been Removed Sun 02 May 2010 01:48:40 GMT+1 Allan J Not all women are FORCED to wear the Burka, some wear because it THEIR choice to wear it and would be wrong and hypocritical of a so called FREE DEMOCRATIC country to dictate what people can and cannot wear.In saying that, there should be exceptions to that, for example, customs, banks, unemployment and other government offices, but it must be done with respect to that woman, done maybe in a private room in the presence of another woman, to confirm that persons ID. If there is to be a change in the law, it should be so it is the woman's choice whither she wears it or not. Sun 02 May 2010 01:08:48 GMT+1 Chris 1027. At 01:26am on 02 May 2010, MisterKeyes wrote:A proposed law requiring that all members of the public have their face uncovered at all times, regardless of activity, while in public spaces goes directly against this reasonable and common freedom. So I would strongly oppose any such proposals. -------A compelling point, and one I find hard to disagree with. I'm a great believer in personal freedoms (with responsibilities). I just pondered/visualised doing today with a mask over my face, the shopping trip, filling the car, chatting to a neighbour; I imagine I'd meet nothing but suspicion and sidelong glances and frankly I'd feel like I wasn't keeping my end of an unspoken social contract.Yet still, a law stating I couldn't have a hanky over my face when prostrate in the park goes too far of course.Perhaps it does need to be on the context, ban any face coverings in places of trade, public offices, transport hubs et al.Funny, I had an affair with a woman in Cairo once, the veil can provide a lady with convenient anonymity in an oppressive regime. Sun 02 May 2010 00:55:15 GMT+1 Davina It should be banned in all public places, like, transport, malls, banks, parks etc, because of the security risks. Anywhere where a person in any other sort of mask would not be tolerated. I am sure it is mostly worn to make a statement, and as it is a symbol of oppression and division it really has no place in the United Kingdom in the twenty first century.As for respecting people’s religion, I think the time has come to put a very definite stop to all religious privilege. Sun 02 May 2010 00:52:24 GMT+1 Mohammad A Dar This post has been Removed Sun 02 May 2010 00:50:36 GMT+1 Chris This post has been Removed Sun 02 May 2010 00:44:24 GMT+1 MisterKeyes The focus of this proposed Law in Belgium should not be clouded by just talking about Burkas.This is more importantly about identification and anonymity. About Law, not culture or religion.There are times when we have the right to anonymity and there are times when we must be clear about our identity. While at home or on public land minding our own business, we have the right to anonymity. When at work, at school, within government buildings, while making certain purchases, using particular services or while on private property, we are required to be clear about our identity. That is not a religious or cultural requirement, it is a plain legal right (within Europe at least) applying to all.There is no general requirement that we must either carry identification or identify ourselves to authorities (except having a driver's licence when driving) while at home or in minding our own business on public land. When authorities have no reasonable grounds to detain or arrest an individual, we are provided this limited degree of anonymity (as well as the right to remain silent). That is not a religious or cultural right, it is a plain legal right (within Europe at least) applying to all.A proposed law requiring that all members of the public have their face uncovered at all times, regardless of activity, while in public spaces goes directly against this reasonable and common freedom. So I would strongly oppose any such proposals. Under the existing law, when authorities have reasonable grounds, we are required to identify ourselves. That is sufficient - and no religious or cultural reason should overcome that. In situations or locations of particularly heightened security, in lieu of other reasonable grounds, an individual insisting on anonymity would by that act give authorities grounds to detain and therefore grounds to identify. That is sufficient. Sun 02 May 2010 00:26:32 GMT+1 Peter Hodge Yes, the Burka should be outlawed in this country. If we can't enter a store or bank wearing a covering of our face, why should some women be permitted to do so? Ah, because we are pandering to the Mulsims again. The day I see a woman in a Burka in an area where I would not be allowed to wear a covering, is the day I buy a cover for my face and walk in behind her. And then let's se them throw me out! Sun 02 May 2010 00:17:16 GMT+1 Alexander Baldal Great tragedy is that most people have no idea what Islam is. There are two women apostates from Islam and therefore alone already condemned to death! Hear them talk on internet videos. They are Fawa Sultan and Ajaan Hirsh Ali. Yes, there are good Muslim defenses for what they do, Muslims have been under attack since the West developed better weapons some 100 years ago. They have been humiliated by the West so much that the suicide bombings are an expression of their despair. The curious inability to adapt modern humanitarian ideas will forever set them back from free thinkers. However the West is abusing its power horribly and if the repercussions are unexpected, so much for intelligence. Sun 02 May 2010 00:17:01 GMT+1 Alexander Baldal As soon as my girl friend and I can walk shaven faced in shorts and she with bare midriff and open shoulder in Saudi Arabia and Tehran they can keep their Burqas in Europe. So simple. Intolerance meet intolerance, what else is new? Sun 02 May 2010 00:02:43 GMT+1 Gareth Sorry to dissapoint the left looneys who seem to be rather open-armed with the burka, you'd soon change your minds if a burka wearing woman or MAN for that matter - yes did you know it actually is possible for a man to disguise himself wearing that clothing? blew themself up outside your front door or on a crowded train your sharing with them? or even knifed you for instance...what is your discription please? burka wearing woman or man.Of course I support equal rights for nearly all people - gay people, disabled people, women.....but there is a limit on things and how far you can go and being too tolerant on what is quite simply a mask is just plain wrong.Sorry but socialism doesn't work its been prooven.I am not Right or Left in political thinking I am a 'Centrist'. Sat 01 May 2010 23:57:48 GMT+1 nick yes, Sat 01 May 2010 23:12:00 GMT+1 mabnuv This post has been Removed Sat 01 May 2010 22:59:52 GMT+1 Melanie How can they be trapped in their homes, they don't have to wear it, they choose to wear it. Society does not need anyone to make a statement that means covering the face. These women are radical, if they don't like the rules then leave. Sat 01 May 2010 22:58:14 GMT+1 Vlad17 This post has been Removed Sat 01 May 2010 22:54:02 GMT+1 BBCTroll If they don't like it, then take a plane back to some hardcore Islam country, because we want Islam here as much as Arab countries want other religions there..... Sat 01 May 2010 22:50:40 GMT+1 Mohammad A Dar This post has been Removed Sat 01 May 2010 22:49:33 GMT+1 Enny2012 I beleive burka should be banned. It does not fit well into the way of British people. Why should we not see the face of our neighbours, or those talking to us. Sat 01 May 2010 22:40:17 GMT+1 Mohammad A Dar This post has been Removed Sat 01 May 2010 22:40:10 GMT+1 quietoaktree I always thought the Koran teaches that Moslems living in a non-moslem country should obey the laws of that country and also respect its traditions ?That is why non-moslems in a moslem country are requested to respect their laws and traditions ?Or am I misunderstanding something ? Sat 01 May 2010 22:38:59 GMT+1 Wrinklyoldgit The veil and the burkha are Islamic practices.So are public executions, the cutting off of hands and feet, the severing of the male sexual member for adultery, public floggings, child marriages, honour killings, polygamy, banning women from driving, requiring a male family member to chaperone a female in public, the evidence of one muslim equals two non-muslims in a court - in the spirit of following NuLabour's ethos of multiculturalism and ethnic diversity, should we adopt these practices in addition to allowing the veil and burkha? Sat 01 May 2010 22:11:17 GMT+1 Mohammad A Dar This post has been Removed Sat 01 May 2010 22:03:02 GMT+1 mabnuv **1005. At 10:44pm on 01 May 2010, Trev Smith wrote:I can't believe we're even asking the question. Is it even legal (in the context of human rights) to ban the wearing of an article of clothing?""Trev Smith.Burkha is not a subject of choice. Do you think any woman would choose wearing such kind of dress in the middle of the western culture?Burkha is a forced dress. Muslim men force the women to wear it. Women are so kindhearted beings that none of them would spoil the community with their dress. If Islam orders women to hide their hairs (to cover their heads) believe me that Muslim Women would create a very good looking fashion rather than such kind of primitive dress. Sat 01 May 2010 21:57:53 GMT+1 Jim I do believe that this garment is being used to antagonise the rest of us in Britain. I do know that Islam does not require women to wear such attire. I also know it is totally unaceptable to wear when boarding a plane; anyone could be hiding beneath it.........oooops sorry; forgot, they are made an exeption it seems, mustn't upset ethnic minority religous groups in the UK should they call us all racists, zenophobes, Anglophiles and as the PM was caught out saying...Bigots. I welcome all immmigrants to my country; I do not welcome those who will not integrate; will not respect the crown and those who bring in drugs, guns, people trafficing and general crime. Sat 01 May 2010 21:57:16 GMT+1 Wrinklyoldgit The burkha and the veil are NOT a requirement of the Koran, this was emphatically stated by a group of leading islamic clerics from Mecca in a Saudi Arabian government approved article in the Perspectives of Islam in a Friday issue of their English langauage daily "Arab News" about 4 years ago.The clerics stated that the veil was worn by Turkish women to prevent suntanning as lighter skinned women were preferred by rich Turks, when Turkey invaded Arabia the veil was adopted by Arabian women.If someone wishes to dispute the clerics understanding they should take it up withn the leading Islamic clerics.Islamic practice is not the same as Koranic requirements of the faithful. Sat 01 May 2010 21:56:39 GMT+1 Vlad17 This post has been Removed Sat 01 May 2010 21:50:53 GMT+1 worldwriter One never knows who is wearing a burqa. It should be outlawed and those who want to wear it should think the fear felt by others who cannot see a face, just a big black cover-up. I don't want a female or male terrorist wearing one that hides the whole body coming up to me and blowing me up and several people around me. What a perfect disguise to commit murder. Women who have already blown themselves up in the name of Allah have let us know that they are capable of performing such acts.Men have been known to do the same thing wearing the Burqa. Please forbid this form of dress. Modesty can be obtained with a head scarf. When we travel to some of their countries of origin we have to alter our mode of dress to suit the law. Let it be the same here in the UK and EU. Sat 01 May 2010 21:47:40 GMT+1 Chris This post has been Removed Sat 01 May 2010 21:44:29 GMT+1 cococheese I can't believe we're even asking the question. Is it even legal (in the context of human rights) to ban the wearing of an article of clothing?If so, I'd like to propose a ban on those 'fanny bags', bermuda shorts and those plastic shoes with all the little holes in. Oh, and mirrored sunglasses. And the mullet. Sat 01 May 2010 21:44:02 GMT+1 mabnuv Not also should be banned but also those who advice wearing it should be punished. Sat 01 May 2010 21:37:15 GMT+1 Pinkerbell Why did you not publish my comments? Wearing the burkha IS a political statement in this country and not a religious one. Christian people have been banned for wearing a cross in the illogical and insulting is that? The burkha wearers intimidate by their appearance and it makes a statement that they want to be excluded from our society. Sat 01 May 2010 21:32:10 GMT+1 Chris This post has been Removed Sat 01 May 2010 21:25:56 GMT+1 McJakome I wonder why there has been no Hoodite Church, presumably with sacrimental drinking of beer and chanting of sacred oaths. Surely when this church's members come forth and require equal treatment under the law the matter will then be resolved to the satisfaction of everyone but the PCPolice.According to my history books the authentic Briton, in earlier times, wore hoods, masks and robes [sometimes rather less] and participated in the God(s) given beverages and herbs, while conducting very interesting rites. Would the native British traditions be disallowed while those of self-invited guests are protected? Sat 01 May 2010 21:24:53 GMT+1 Rasputin If we talk about Islam and their muslim religion just take a fresh look what happened in the Balkans and get the picture straight with the two points Bosnia and Kosovo and not Croatia. What IT DID proved that their religion [bare in mind these are the same people as the rest of the Orthodox but just converted in that religion] cannot live in peace with us the Christians …either they have to dominate or be separated. But WHY this happened? …because the west used their STUPID confusion and ignorance.Yet to as many of them I spoke in the west all said the same “…when the Yugoslav union was it was socialism, now is coming the hard time …the west was wrong separating us - they should’ve taken us all as we were Yugoslavia into the EU.” Sat 01 May 2010 21:22:09 GMT+1 roddy 992. At 9:46pm on 01 May 2010, Heard it all b4 wrote:The Burka has no place ina modern western society, it's not specified as a pre-requisite in the Koran, it's out of keeping with the equal rights legislation that we have in the western world & finally it is derogatory to women.To show how one sided the treatment of the Burka has been in the media and in society....try wearing a full Ski mask in a built up urban area and see how long it takes before you are arrested....not the case when wearing a Burka...funny that!////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////Never been arrested for wearing a ski mask, but they do ask you to remove it breifly while they take a photo during the protest.GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT...And yes I've seen them do that to vailed women too. Sat 01 May 2010 21:17:20 GMT+1 Chris 978. At 9:14pm on 01 May 2010, FreeThinker wrote:People have the right to wear what they like, as long as it isn't "indecent". If you have a problem with police and identification, then make it necessary for women wearing the burqa to carry identification..------------Presumably it follows that I would have a right to walk into a bank or primary school with a balaclava helmet on as long as I have some form of ID on me ?If we accept that one's subjective beliefs allow you privileges above those who don't share them, I can see a great deal of new religions popping up. Personally I've always had a firm conviction that showing my willy in public improves next years crops and brings good luck to all that behold it's magnificence - but as soon as I try to practice my religion there's no respect for my beliefs whatsoever, it's all just screaming and stuff. Sat 01 May 2010 21:15:22 GMT+1 kelby The bottom line is that the law bans ANY total covering of the face that conceals identity - whether it be the burka or anything else. Lets get off the emotif freedom of religion etc - which is not what this is about. The law does not prevent the wearing of the tradional dress of any country or religion - muslim, hindu jew christian etc so long as it does not involve covering the face - which unfortunately in the times we live in is a real security concern. It should also be pointed out that in the West we DO NOT live with total freedom to do as we like. Our laws limit our freedom in sensible ways. We do not have the freedom of speech for example to incite anyone to kill or harm others. There are a number of sensible limits to our individual freedoms - designed for the greater good - and Belgiums law is one such Sat 01 May 2010 21:12:04 GMT+1