Comments for en-gb 30 Wed 27 May 2015 01:55:34 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at Lynn Situational Interviews and Stress Interviews have been commonly used in industry for decades. There is nothing wrong with that.Like I said before, kids were not there to choose or judge the candidates. Mon 05 Apr 2010 09:33:30 GMT+1 Henners 517. At 09:53am on 05 Apr 2010, mug is my middle name wrote:Agreed! Let's keep youth numb and asleep, let's raise them in our own image i.e. intellectually bonsai'd zombies unable of thought and deed. God forbid we actually allow youngsters to develop an own will and opinion and grow a spine! They might actually achieve something, and that would be the end of the world!!!Our own image? Speak for yourself, but I certainly don't think I'm a spineless, underachieving zombie... are you for real? Mon 05 Apr 2010 09:31:29 GMT+1 Trina It's bonkers on two levels: One the kids have no informed way of knowing what an interview process is, yet their first experience is in the recruiting seat - with the power of veto. I suggest schools brace themselves for litigation because if challenged I think the rationale that the children didn't like him/her is going to cost. Secondly, I don't get a say on who I work with, or influence my material surroundings to any great degree - very few of us do. Welcome to the real world. Mon 05 Apr 2010 09:19:55 GMT+1 JockMcCool This is a stupid idea thought up by stupid people. I have never in all my days heard of so much nonsense as this. Facts: Students are there to Study. Teachers are there to teach.It is about time those so called think tank members had their own heads pulled in about what is and is not appropriate.It is about time also, that common sense prevailed in the UK. Mon 05 Apr 2010 09:14:15 GMT+1 Lynn Not everyone is suitable to be a Primary School teacher. This interview strategy proves the candidates just that. Gee! Some people are so negative towards children. Children are not as nasty and complicated as they think at all. As prospective teachers, they should change their attitude before they enter the teaching career. Mon 05 Apr 2010 08:55:52 GMT+1 Ralphie 516. At 09:44am on 05 Apr 2010, HennersTheBear wrote:"Madness, utter madness. The kids should have no say in matters of such importance. Is this really serious? Must be a late April Fool joke, no?"Agreed! Let's keep youth numb and asleep, let's raise them in our own image i.e. intellectually bonsai'd zombies unable of thought and deed. God forbid we actually allow youngsters to develop an own will and opinion and grow a spine! They might actually achieve something, and that would be the end of the world!!! Mon 05 Apr 2010 08:53:57 GMT+1 Henners Madness, utter madness. The kids should have no say in matters of such importance. Is this really serious? Must be a late April Fool joke, no? Mon 05 Apr 2010 08:44:26 GMT+1 McCrimmond Has the moderator slept in. Mon 05 Apr 2010 08:26:30 GMT+1 icewombat Well its only fair if the students can interview the teachers that the school can interview the studends before places are allocated!OH I foregot thats illegal as its prevents feer choice! Mon 05 Apr 2010 08:14:55 GMT+1 Uroboros The Labour Party is far more ready to protect Education than is the Tory Party. There is no doubt about that. Mon 05 Apr 2010 08:04:01 GMT+1 the-tiger Based on the concept that kids are customers getting a service from the teachers...As a customer & part-owner of RBS, LTSBHalifax, NorthernRock....i want to interview their CEO's and their boards, their bonus pots. I also want to interview the next PM, Education Secretary, etc. I also want to interview my GP (grossly overpaid) and the head of my local council. I am an adult customer of these and other such services....And can teachers interview the pupils who join their class....Can others pl volunteer to interview/select other public positions...i cant do them all...Whats wrong with the board of governor's (which generally has parent representatives) interviewing and helping the head to select the teachers?Why are teaching unions having different views on this issue - what a let down.....remember who pays you.... Mon 05 Apr 2010 07:59:56 GMT+1 Wu Shu Surprise, surprise, the BBC reports this story today: allowed to choose their teachers and now decide the future of our country by voting?The world has gone mad.We're talking about a generation of failures who will blame society for their failures and are unemployable. Who exactly would they vote for? The party that will happily give them a life on benefits and reward them for having no aspirations: New Labour.All of this utter nonsense is part of the social engineering experiment by New Labour to create a handouts society that will only vote for New Labour. Mon 05 Apr 2010 07:51:58 GMT+1 Mysterious What on earth has happened to schools? Pupils,somehow,are becoming more and more'unteachable'.Is that really a situation everybody is happy with? There was a time when teachers ran the classroom,pupils did as they were told and the HeadTeacher was the one with the power.Children misbehaved at their peril but school was a safe place where boundaries were set and the teachers were valued. Is nobody going to come and set education back on course? Mon 05 Apr 2010 07:32:50 GMT+1 McCrimmond Pre - 2010 Children should be seen and not heard. 2010 - Children should be heard and not seen. Mon 05 Apr 2010 07:27:39 GMT+1 peter In New Labour la la Land I suppose any stupid idea goes if it looks inclusive. Pupils on an interview panel, completely stupid idea, ok let them have a say in school dinners. I heard them described the other day by a New Labour luvie as "customers" They are not customers they are school children and they are benefiting from an education provided by the state which we are paying for. Will some one please start the Common Sense party they would get my vote in a flash!! Mon 05 Apr 2010 07:21:21 GMT+1 McCrimmond This new process in schools is not so new in Social services (Residential Schools and Units. It comes under the mask of Participation Strategy/Policy. How we involve our customers,in this case children. I have found the experience disgusting, confidentiality goes straight out the window as soon as the child reaches the bycycle shed. It is also demeaning for the adult, power and empowerment can be achieved in many other more interesting ways. Mon 05 Apr 2010 07:13:21 GMT+1 Bill Grigg When I was at school I had many ideas of how a school should be run. When I left school and became educated in the real world I soon learned the falicy of my former ideas. Any more of these stupid ideas and we may as well switch off the lights and leave! Mon 05 Apr 2010 06:59:20 GMT+1 Bill Grigg What a stupid idea! However why not interview pupils and get them to discuss what they think of their teachers and let the teachers hear the results. It will then be up to the teachers to learn how they come across and modify their methods or mode of presentation as they themselves learn how they are perceived. For some children what may be thought of as a 'bad' teacher may be perceived as a 'good' teacher by others. Mon 05 Apr 2010 06:55:36 GMT+1 Daisy Chained The reality of schools these days is that they are muddling and confusing the conditions required to enable learning to take place with the process of academic attainment. Learning is a life pursuit for all of us, whereas academic attainment is a goal for a small minority. The maxim that we are all students and all teachers is most insightful in pursuit of an enjoyable life, and yet a piece of paper or its absence can unfairly cause so much turmoil to so many. Pieces of paper merely show where you have come from they do not show where you are going.To rid ourselves of mediocrity we must value manual dexterity, technical skills, creativity, and physical strengths just as much as we value grey matter. That means we must see school as one building block not the be all and end all of knowledge and attainment. Let children be children and not pretend they are something else. Mon 05 Apr 2010 06:14:34 GMT+1 Robert Gomez This is laughable. Should 5 year olds be able to interview their potential teachers? Why is this news? Mon 05 Apr 2010 02:29:05 GMT+1 Aziz Merchant The teaching union is right in rejecting the idea of involving students in the interview of prospective teachers. This sounds like an anti-clockwise move. Students will abuse such participation as they have no experience in deciding what is best for the school. This is like a student teaching his parent how to breed. Mon 05 Apr 2010 02:27:47 GMT+1 ZiggyNoShoes 296. At 8:07pm on 03 Apr 2010, summersetboy wrote:i don't think that a 5 year old should choose their teachers but i go to college and I've picked out my head of department and one of my teachers the teachers and we students seem to be happy with the chose.Are they supposed to be teaching you English language by any chance? Mon 05 Apr 2010 00:39:54 GMT+1 Edward Treen Why not?Then we can also have prisoners appointing warders, and villains having a veto on the recruitment of police...Only this half-baked apology for a government could oversee such lunacy.But in the totally unreal reality of Balls, Harperson et al, we really have gone "through the looking glass"... Mon 05 Apr 2010 00:38:17 GMT+1 ZiggyNoShoes An FE teacher wrote on 3rd April"I can also see the obvious benefits of assessment FOR learning - where students grade each other and assess themselves - reading over others work facilitates collaboration and helps to pool knowledge, whilst self assessment is a useful transferrable skill.If the correct guidelines are followed, these teaching and learning methods can be very useful for evaluation purposes. Also, with the funding cuts that are about to be made in education, which will no doubt result in teachers having to manage larger classes, we shall need all the help we can get to work smarter (so we're told)!"So what exactly are we paying teachers to do if they are letting the pupils grade their own an each others work?This all stems from the educational theorists of the sixties and seventies who believed all children came in to school with an inate wisdom that actually exceeded that of the adults who taught them - the teachers having been 'stripped of that wisdom' by a repressive education system who had imposed rote learning of skills such reading, writing and basic arithmatic. The belief was that all children are already imbued with an inate ability to read and write so they would somehow gain these skills by some form of osmosis. Arithmatic wasn't necessary anyway as the ability to handle figures is purely a mechanism of capitalism.By the eighties enough of the student teachers trained in this line of thinking had made it to Head of Department and were now setting the curriculum, so by the nineties it was discovered that we had a generation of illiterate and innumerate school-leavers on our hands and it was found necessary to bring back the old teaching styles, such as phonics for teaching reading, because they worked. The SATS were brought in to make sure that children were actually being taught, much to the annoyance of the teaching profession who far preferred the old method of internal and self review - a philosophy that remains strong as is shown by the comments of the contributor above and the current threats of inaction by teacher's unions on this years SATS tests.How much say should children have in school? Nothing beyond saying "Thank you" for the amazing priviledge of a free education - something sadly taken for granted - look at the situation in many of the other countries of the world where education is not a right.What's the solution?Well for a start cut the nonsense about teaching being a "profession" that somehow ranks, as some contributors (no doubt teachers) have suggested as being comparable to doctors. Unfortunately there are a growing number of people in this country wandering around under the delusion that because they have a degree they are now a "professional" person. No you are not, you're just a worker like the rest of us, deal with it!Teacher training for new graduates to include a gap year (or two) outside of education where the trainee teacher works at a job and discovers how the skills learnt in school will actually be applied by their pupils. As a manager in business I was gobsmacked at having to train graduates of Business Studies about what an invoice was, apparently because their lecturers/teachers had no experience of the subject they were teaching. Teacher training to be reopenned to non-graduates with sufficient 'A' levels for university entry over the age of 25.Teachers to be sent on exchange years with teachers from other parts of the world. I was recently in schools in Ecuador where education is still considered a priviledge and classes of 40 pupils are successfully taught by a single low-paid teacher without two or three class-room assistants on hand. A year at the chalk face in the third world might wake up a few teachers to what their chosen vocation is all about. While the staff rooms of the UK would benefit from the insight of teachers from overseas.As to pupils on the selection panels for staff recruitments - get real! But this is a pit the teaching "profession" has dug for itself by idealising the child - answer, mandatory reading for all trainee teachers to be William Golding's 'Lord of the Flies" - the base state of children is not inate wisdom but savagery.... I believe Golding was a teacher.BTW: Hasn't the BBC completely ruined HYC - I mean the subjects are as asinine as ever, but previously brevity was the art of wit and at least you could guage the level of HYC ignorance by the Most Recommended tab. Now we are just allowed to rant to our heart's content into the cyber-ether without a clue as to whether anyone agrees with us. Mon 05 Apr 2010 00:29:45 GMT+1 ColdEarted Arfur This is a joke, right?If not, it is not surprising that it is difficult to get people to be teachers in the UK. What next - 9-year-olds deciding who runs the country? 12-year-olds electing bank managers? Doctors having to pass "child-boards" before they can practice?Most kids I know have enough trouble deciding what to eat or which DVD to watch. Mon 05 Apr 2010 00:10:22 GMT+1 in_the_uk Tutors come in a wide range of styles and personality. When someone goes for a job interview they are interviewed by the employer on such traits and the student will have to adapt to the employers attitude.I have worked a number of jobs with various management personalities. Some I worked well with soem I clashed, that is life. The employment aspect is being taught by the universities and schools which includes self-motivation and dealing with a superior you may or may not like.Students have no right to interview the teacher to see if they are up to the job. Sun 04 Apr 2010 23:58:42 GMT+1 Frustrated-of-TW By all means let the pupils put their ideas for improvements into a suggestions box, so that any worthy ones can be actioned, but this pathetic attempt at social engineering is, hopefully, destined to fail.We are, like all other creatures on the planet, pre-programmed by thousands of years of evolution and you'd never see offspring exercising any real control over adults in the animal world. The whole exercise sends the dangerous message that someone without much experience or understanding of a situation, or life, can actually exercise some control over it, and this then becomes open to abuse. If the press reports are to be believed then some of the questions posed by the pupils would have got an adult into serious trouble. Let's not lull youngsters into a false sense of security, and possibly an over inflated view of their own importance, by allowing them this level of control - a level they will surely be denied when they enter the adult world. Sun 04 Apr 2010 23:55:37 GMT+1 ZephrinVirqie Firstly, the state has no business (un)educating my children.I've no respect for system puppet programmers (aka teachers) so if you want to put foxes in charge of chickens feel free. Sun 04 Apr 2010 23:36:00 GMT+1 Lynn Why do people apply for primary school teaching jobs if they obviously hate children? shame. Sun 04 Apr 2010 23:11:51 GMT+1 Markasol Since when did this politically correct nonsense come in whereby children at school are called students? They are not, they are pupils. Students go to college or University, it is an entirely different learning experience, voluntary and self-motivated, which merits a different term.Pupils do have a very good idea about what teachers are any good and which ones are rubbish but this is an issue that would have to be handled carefully as it would be too easily abused... Sun 04 Apr 2010 22:59:33 GMT+1 SR from EG There is a push to indoctrinate 16 year olds that they really are adults when quite clearly they are not. You can use analogies such as giving them the keys of the Ferrari to soon more like the patients are running the asylum. Sun 04 Apr 2010 22:58:19 GMT+1 ruffled_feathers I must recommend snapdragon88 @ 473.This is looking at the reality of the situation, not through well-meaning but rosy specs. Sun 04 Apr 2010 22:37:14 GMT+1 cruiskeen In the first place God made idiots; that was for practice; then he made school boards. - Mark Twain. Bring back the belt. - Me. Sun 04 Apr 2010 22:20:55 GMT+1 ruffled_feathers "212. At 4:50pm on 03 Apr 2010, Calaba wrote:Ohh, and I'll just add:'In another case, a teacher said they were "humiliated" after being asked by pupils to sing their favourite song at interview. They declined and did not get the job.'Sorry, but I don't care; that's entirely reasonable. You can be as "humiliated" as you want, but 'sing a song' or 'tell me a joke' are both above board in an interview"A child requesting a prospective teacher to sing a song or tell a joke is a disrespectful waste of somebody's UNPAID time at an interview (along with the other adults attending, but were they too dim to realise?) and they may have incurred considerable expense in getting to the school. Normal interview chat will demonstrate whether someone has a sense of humour and whether they can make their teaching interesting as well. A brief walk through some of the classrooms will demonstrate how the teacher relates to the pupils.Oh, and by the way, the point of an interview is not JUST to find out if you have the right candidate - it is also to give the candidate the chance to do the best they can.So if a teacher is employed because the pupils like them - and it goes horribly wrong because it turns out they can't teach, or they go to bed with one of their pupils - you can't really tell children in those circumstances that it's all their own fault, can you? Well, perhaps you can. Perhaps that's what it's all about...... Sun 04 Apr 2010 22:11:56 GMT+1 Jeff Smith I think teachers should be able to interview and reject students before they come into a school. Sun 04 Apr 2010 21:58:41 GMT+1 Albert Superficially it may sound stupid, but giving students some say into the running of the school will likely give them a sense of ownership and increase their engagement with their education. I absolutely hated school because I did not like being controlled by a bunch of strangers, I ended up viewing it more as a battle of wills than an experience that was supposed to be for my benefit. Perhaps by engaging me more in the process I would have gained much more from it. Sun 04 Apr 2010 21:57:49 GMT+1 LogicalLady In response to Neil, post 479 "nope can't see your point"Well Neil, I'm sorry about that. Point being, that I totally agree with BrokenBlackberry's opionion. Nothing wrong with that, surely? Sun 04 Apr 2010 21:49:49 GMT+1 Spirit_of_Iona In a word... NONE!The HYS leader statedThe Association of School and College Leaders general secretary, Dr John Dunford, says students are very astute at "articulating what works well and how weaker areas could be improved in the classroom" and it is useful to have students views about interviewees.Then Maybe Dr Dunford and his association would be willing to pick up the tab on behalf of the public purse for any cases taken under the Human Rights Act as anyone who has ever interviewed candidates for posts will tell you all interviews and comments about the suitability or not of candidates need to be logged and recorded. And somehow the comment "he or she looks wierd" or "he doesnt look like [add your own celebrity]" simply doesn't Quite 'cut it'. Secondly performance of teachers and their ability to connect with students should be judged by their employers not the students... crucially remembering the following that the students are passing through schools and colleges and moving on (courses ranging from two to five years tops) for the teacher it is a career and they may expect to be there for 10, 20 or even 30 years... That the students don't have the teacher all the time That human nature dictates that we don't get on or connect with everyoneIf I were a fully qualified teacher I wouldn't want some 'O' level or 'A' level student with little experience of work or life, who is only passing through the school or college, interviewing me for a teaching job which I have spent years training for often having to undertake locum posts and after passing 'in-course' assessments and registration exams, as if it is like some Britain's got talent audition. This is PC taken to the extreme Sun 04 Apr 2010 21:44:05 GMT+1 Ricky J Call me old fashioned, but aren't students there to learn, not to have a say in who teachs them. I was always thought, that why there are Head Teachers and a board of Govenors. NO wonder educational standards are a JOKE in the UK Sun 04 Apr 2010 21:42:42 GMT+1 Lizzy Many kids fail at school because they can't relate to the educational environment including the teachers. My son was a rebel and it was only when he found a teacher who treated him like an adult and took his views into account, that he began to change. There is a place for pupil opinions on teachers, and on interview panels (what a good life experience) although the pupil on an interview panel should not have the casting vote. Sun 04 Apr 2010 21:35:24 GMT+1 Robert Crosby It's not acceptable for teachers to be subjected to this nonsense and the government should ensure that the appropriate changes to recruitment arrangements are made. It can't be right for newly-qualified teachers to undergo an intensive programme of study and teaching practice and for qualified staff who have undergone professional development to then find that their career prospects can be undermined or even torpedoed by the ridiculous notion that pupils should have an input into selection of candidates for posts. What next... airline passengers interviewing pilots to see who has the most appealing tannoy delivery?! Sun 04 Apr 2010 21:33:17 GMT+1 LogicalLady I do apologise for my post (472), when I said PLEASE do read post 292 by BlackBerry when it should have read post 292 by BrokenBlackberry!Still agree 100% with the comment made, despite the responses from Lynn, with whom I totally disagree. Sorry Lynn, I think you have misguided opinions. Sun 04 Apr 2010 21:28:32 GMT+1 DaveRN They should have none they are there to learn Teachers should be interviewed for the job by proffessional interviewers qualified in HR Sun 04 Apr 2010 21:26:21 GMT+1 Clear Incite 472. At 9:38pm on 04 Apr 2010, LogicalLady wrote: "" PLEASE, do read post 292 by BlackBerry (in response to a post by Lynn). Couldn't agree more. How ridiculous that any parent of an eight year old could hold such an opinion and I speak as a parent myself. Sadly, there are too many of them about. Well said indeed"" Nope can't see your Point Sun 04 Apr 2010 21:14:51 GMT+1 clamdip lobster claws If students actually studied harder they wouldn't need to concern themselves with hiring teachers. Students are lazy then whine to their parents when they get a poor grade. Teachers can lead students to learning but can't make them drink. Students should stop whining and read a book once in a while. Sun 04 Apr 2010 21:13:12 GMT+1 N J Sharpe I'm guessing that the hope behind this idea is that once the kids have chosen their new teacher they'll settle down to graft with a keeness kept buoyed with the periodic thought of, 'I chose him'.These are kids. They are not designed for making sensible decisions. They are designed to stretch the limits of adults' patience as far as they can get away with. Of course they'll insist that applicants must sing, dance, tell jokes and whatever. All credit to those who did that and what else were the organisers of this expecting?Kids need to learn to respect each other, their elders and especially teachers and then they should have knowledge stuffed into them. This is most likely to work successfully where the teacher is held in high esteem by the class because of their ability for the job not because of some wacky kiddy questioning. Sun 04 Apr 2010 21:08:49 GMT+1 clamdip lobster claws I agree with the German math teacher. Alot of administrators running schools shouldn't be there because they lack vision and only go with the status quo to keep their paychecks. Teachers are the weary foot soldiers in education and deserve the biggest pay. Get rid of highly paid administrators and put the money into teachers and students. When your children are being shot and killed and bullied to death you've got to ask yourself, Could something be wrong with these institutions? Sun 04 Apr 2010 21:01:16 GMT+1 keybasher Ref: 433 from YTThese comments perfectly illustrate why the ability of teachers to teach and students to learn have sunk to abyssmal levels. Grammar 0/10, Punctuation 0/10. Hope you do well in life, YT. Sun 04 Apr 2010 21:00:39 GMT+1 2squirrels Absolutely none. Have the school management gone mad? Students are there to be taught not to choose who teaches them. How do people expect teachers to be respected if studentshelp to employ them this is the most stupid thing I've heard yet. What next prisoners choosing governors? Sun 04 Apr 2010 20:56:50 GMT+1 myfanwy95 I can't promise I've read all the comments on this thread, but there are two issues I haven't seen anyone raise yet:1. What if pupils end up with a teacher they voted against? A lovely starting-point for any new teacher!2. What about the scenario where a very popular internal candidate is standing against strangers? The outsiders wouldn't stand a chance. Sun 04 Apr 2010 20:40:52 GMT+1 LogicalLady PLEASE, do read post 292 by BlackBerry (in response to a post by Lynn).Couldn't agree more. How ridiculous that any parent of an eight year old could hold such an opinion and I speak as a parent myself. Sadly, there are too many of them about.Well said indeed. Sun 04 Apr 2010 20:38:49 GMT+1 AM None at all! Talk about the lunatics rubbing the asylum! Sun 04 Apr 2010 19:57:47 GMT+1 Diana Marie What absolute nonsense. Children are children, adults in training. They should be seen and not heard; this simple philosophy worked for generations. Sun 04 Apr 2010 19:47:56 GMT+1 Mad Max and Satan Dog Paddy How about Criminal selecting Judges Magistrates, Prosecuting lawyers and Police Officers. Sun 04 Apr 2010 19:44:07 GMT+1 freddy White I don't think pupils should have a say at all in the practical running of a school, as the entire point of education is to teach children how to live life, and that means learning that everything doesn't go how you want it to. However, if something has clearly gone wrong in a school, yes, ask the pupils, because they often know far more about what's going on under the surface of a school than any member of staff. Sun 04 Apr 2010 19:31:55 GMT+1 Clear Incite 456. At 5:15pm on 04 Apr 2010, Wanda wrote: I hope your not close to retirement. Unlike the Person below 214. At 4:53pm on 03 Apr 2010, tc wrote:""What a dozy country this is becoming.""I see from your post 30yrs in Teaching close to retiringn then, probably a good job. Sun 04 Apr 2010 19:23:44 GMT+1 g man This sums up nulabour, a stupid gimmick, absolutly no practical value whatsoever. Sun 04 Apr 2010 18:51:46 GMT+1 Robert Warstein This post has been Removed Sun 04 Apr 2010 18:27:43 GMT+1 Claire Herbert Students should not have any input into who their teacher is. They are there to learn, not recruit. Sun 04 Apr 2010 18:21:18 GMT+1 rcdson Should students be involved in the selection process?no, if students knew enough to judge a teachers knowledge they wouldn't be considered students. Sun 04 Apr 2010 18:06:49 GMT+1 Mark There were some useless teachers at my school. If anyone had bothered asking the pupils what they thought, the teachers would have been found out and rightfully sacked!!However, that doesn't mean that they should be used to interview prospective teachers.Pupils have no Say? Rubbish idea.Pupils have a say in the employment of a new teacher? Also a rubbish idea. Sun 04 Apr 2010 17:43:36 GMT+1 Matt Wow, this has whipped some of the posters on here into a complete frenzy. "Lunatics running the asylum". What is wrong with asking kids for their opinion of someone that will be teaching them, obviously only a moron would assume that the final say on emplying a teacher would be left with the kids. Whats wrong with kids having a teacher they like rather than someone who drones on or teaches through fear which I remember from several teachers in my childhood? Sun 04 Apr 2010 17:21:21 GMT+1 GBcerberus No. Its just another cop-out by the grownups who don't want to assume the heavy burden of being either parent or in loco parentis. Sun 04 Apr 2010 17:18:13 GMT+1 DPressed I recently interviewed for a support role in a local school. Part of this process involved my being interviewed by a panel of four pupils drawn from Yr 8-10. I have to say that I found these pupils to be very professional. Provided there is relevant oversight of their participation in the interview process then I have no problems with it.However, what the school and parents should be more concerned about is the fact that I was left alone in a room with four children and no other adult supervision. As an interviewee, I had not yet been subject to the usual criminal record checks or references sought. Your children could have been left alone with absolutely anyone. Just as well that I am scrupulously honest. Also, what was to stop these pupils making an unfounded allegation against me? Just as well they were professional.This whole situation was laughable given that I was turned down for the post because of my lack of clarity around safeguarding of children !!!!!! Sun 04 Apr 2010 16:53:48 GMT+1 Mad Max and Satan Dog Paddy When I was at Great Barr Comprehensive school from 1969 to 1974, we the pupils soon sussed out the Teachers. There were the Type that had very poor control of Classroom situations, they used Patronising behaviour and bribery. The Pupils were able to manipulate them. One even gave us the Exam answers so we could be his friend. We learnt nothing from these pathetic excuses. The other sort arrived in a dark well worn suit, walked in to the classroom and it went quite like a gunfight in a saloon. He actually taught you lessons you still can remember 40 yrs later. Sun 04 Apr 2010 16:53:34 GMT+1 corum-populo-2010 Naturally, the usual 'conference' time of year with healthy 'venting' by all unions. Nothing wrong with that in a secular and politically democratic Britain!As usual, all media coverage will be hunting for headlines? Fair enough, they are free to do so in Britain?However, there will be certain media with an 'agenda'? The most difficult aspect of media reporting is that many media agencies operate as 'cartels' within UK and globally? As long as education teaches all children, AND their parents to understand the principle of a 'critique' of ALL media reports? Perhaps more education establishments should teach 'critique' is not the same as being critical? Sun 04 Apr 2010 16:23:03 GMT+1 Wanda I am a teacher and I love my job. Kids are often very insightful about the ways in which they learn best and we would do well to listen to them. Like everyone else, they resent being dictated to and denied a voice, especially when those doing the dictating are not meeting their needs. The more say they have over how and what they learn, the better they will do. This stands to reason.That said, most kids want work to be fun all the time, are not always realistic about the quality of the work they produce, and would like the world to be a place in which high results can be achieved with little effort - just as we all would. They are young and thus by definition optimistic, unrealistic, and often lazy. They must have a say, and their ideas must be taken into consideration; it shouldn't be an empty exercise because they will spot that a mile away and feel lied to and disrespected. But they shouldn't have the last word. Sun 04 Apr 2010 16:15:31 GMT+1 Bob I went to school, I had no say in what happened, I learnt about many, many things and thank my teachers for the gift of education and an understanding of discipline - what is going on in education today turns kids into small adults before they have the life experience to cope - results in a lot of the grief around us and all the people that know their rights before they know their right from their left. A return to traditional values, common sense and respect would be the best move this country could make Sun 04 Apr 2010 16:15:28 GMT+1 virtualsilverlady Pupils are transient but teachers are not.The thought that youngsters no matter what age they are can gang together to decide which teacher will be the softest touch is the beginning of the end for the education system.As if there are not enough problems with respect and discipline for their peers they can now decide to pick and chose who they prefer.I cannot see this as as a positive step to better education but just more pressure on teachers who seem to have less time for teaching as they become the reluctant social workers in what has become the politics of the madhouse. Sun 04 Apr 2010 16:12:29 GMT+1 ExpatKS It is obvious that, given the questions, requests & decisions put forward by many of these interviewing students that they need to spend less time doing this and more time working to educate themselves and generally growing up.Students should have no say at all. Will they get a say as to who their first boss is if & when they start work? New Labour policies at their best. Sun 04 Apr 2010 16:01:14 GMT+1 corum-populo-2010 Any continually 'disruptive', therefore 'unhappy pupil/student that ultimately affects the education of their cohort should be removed from the group that are there to learn?The 'continually' and 'disruptive' pupil/student may have certain 'special needs' that have been missed or ignored by infant/primary school and/or the parents?If these pupils display this behavior, as our nephew did, in primary school did - he was tested for dyslexia - positive result - therefore his frustration was resolved by his parents'/teacher/school involvement - therefore not 'labelled'? Sun 04 Apr 2010 15:40:59 GMT+1 hepdoc I am surprised this is legal. Are the pupils allowed to see the CVs? I thought these were supposed to be confidential? All of this nonsense is eroding the purpose of education and is leaving students without the proper skills. The reason why world power is moving to the far east is not just about cheap labour. It is also because the far eastern communities value education. Take a trip to Japan, China etc and see how their children behave. This country is slowly going down the tubes and the idiots who run it cannot see that the rest of the world have left us behind. I feel sorry for the young people because the left-wing intellectual yobs from the sixties have betrayed them. Sun 04 Apr 2010 15:34:39 GMT+1 BrimfulOfAshes They shouldn't have any say. They're there to learn, not to dictate to their elders. Children are NOT tiny adults, they are immature people who need guidance, not unfettered freedom. They must learn to do as older, wiser people say, instead of claiming their "right" to do as grown-ups do. That haven't earned that priviledge yet! Sun 04 Apr 2010 15:34:04 GMT+1 Richard Holman This is a nonsense and sadly indicative of the ideologically-driven approach to education and education policy that has blighted the system for years. Of course, some of the input provided by pupils involved in a school council style body can be useful, but to allow children to interview teachers is wrong.Speaking personally, I'd like to see education policy removed from the grip of politicians and handed-over to an indepedent body that would make decisions that aren't driven by political expediency and/or a particular social/political agenda. I believe that politics, particularly that of the left, has contributed to a real decline in the standard of education that we provide our children with. Equality of opportunity and inclusiveness has, in my opinion, resulted in the creation of a lowest common denominator approach where genuinely gifted children are held back. Let's remove the politicians and idealogues from the equation. Successive governments have failed our children. We owe them a hell of a lot more than mediocrity. They are the future of this country, after all. Sun 04 Apr 2010 15:28:45 GMT+1 grumpovian Absolutely NOT! These kids have far too much say as it is. It is time the younger generation, whether students or not, were taught respect, and the niceties of life. They have far too much freedom, and say, which should be severely curtailed. If anything, teachers should be given the choice to interview which students they are prepared to teach. Some students should never be in full time education in the first place. The world has gone mad! Sun 04 Apr 2010 14:54:29 GMT+1 sean56z John Dunford makes a strong point. Incompetent teachers freeze-out good students. Assessments by the students on prospective teachers offer keen insight and cautions. Sun 04 Apr 2010 14:51:43 GMT+1 Megan I expect and encourage my students to become full partners with me in their learning, and welcome their input on how material is presented... if they find something is not explained clearly enough, I'd rather know about it, rewrite the material and ensure that it makes sense to them. After all, I already understand it: the whole objective of the excercise is to get them to understand it as well!I'll also listen and act upon input on teaching styles. One year I rewrote an entire unit for a group who preferred doing worksheets to having material explained verbally... and rewrote it again the following year for the next group who liked playing games. Both groups achieved a 100% pass rate, they all learned what they needed to know but in a way that suited them.That's the sort of student participation I want, where the voice of the learner can be beneficial. Sun 04 Apr 2010 14:48:45 GMT+1 Bogota Bob If they are students they should have a say because they are paying for their education, but, they do not become students until they leave school and go to college, until then they are pupils. B careful you loony lefties, you are digging a hole that will prove very difficult to climb out of. Sun 04 Apr 2010 14:46:43 GMT+1 Daniel Adamson Complex subject. Commendable that it was picked up on to begin with. The student voice, however, is not one of authority. Students are in the school to be taught, not help run it. The reason there is a structure in schools is for this exact reason is it not? If we allow students to have this power then I personally think we will become "over run" with poor decisions purely because, if we get students to filter out the teachers they want to teach them, who's filtering out the students who get to pick?Maybe I'm reading a little too deep but a school has to have some form of stability. We can't have students picking "favorites".School councils on the other hand are a fantastic idea. They bring a true student voice rather than those of an individual. It can be treated with a little more dignity also. Sun 04 Apr 2010 14:24:12 GMT+1 Mad Max and Satan Dog Paddy When I was a teenager at my local secondary school in the midlands in the 1970s,we had two male teachers who were awful. They couldnt keep order in their classes, one had an obvious drink problem that was tolerated, he kept a bottle in the stockroom. The other had an unhealthy attraction towards female pupils. He was a toucher and made provocative comments to young girls. Both eventually were sacked from School. One died as an alcoholic, the other I clearly remember whilst a probationary police officer living rough and frequently indecently exposing himself.So if I had been asked as a 15 yr old to interview either of this pair, I know what i would have done... I think that there is a place for pupil opinion, however they should be present but not have the vote to employ or not employ a candidate.. Sun 04 Apr 2010 14:18:07 GMT+1 thomas Sounds to me as though the lunatics are in charge of the assylum. Why on earth are students consulted on staff appointments when they have so little life experience?It is no wonder the young believe they at the centre of the universe when they are led to believe that their opions is equal to that of their superiors.Forcing tutors to act like performing monkeys must be demeaning for any applicant and I for one would not humiliate myself in front of others for any job. How will these students ever respect their their teachers when they have been witness to this sort of desperate behaviour.I have to wonder where this will lead. If it now happening in University how long will it be before younger and younger pupils are given similar positions of power. A nonsense idea which should be stopped immediately. Sun 04 Apr 2010 14:09:16 GMT+1 Mad Max and Satan Dog Paddy I have been involved in personnel interviews in the Public sector. Our interviews were all structured well in advance in order that the candidate could give account for himself in many scenarios. Each interviewer kept notes, and marked the answers against a set matrix. We were most mindful of being taken to a tribunal if the applicant thought that the process was unfair and deliberateley weighted against them. We were totally aware that by rejecting a candidate it could cause that person family or personal difficulties. We wanted the best qualified person for the position who who fit into the organisation. Sun 04 Apr 2010 14:08:11 GMT+1 pennystevens None - they are in school to learn. If they know so much that they can influence the employment of their teachers why are we bothering to have schools at all? Let them go out to work and tell the boss who he/she should employ instead.No wonder this country has such a problem with showing respect to others - they're taught they know it all before they even complete their education! Sun 04 Apr 2010 13:56:05 GMT+1 Old Gal When I was about 14 I had a teacher who was a nice enough man but utterly incapable of keeping a class under control. This was in the early 50s when most children were still reasonably well-behaved so this teacher was an aberration. Since the man was in his late forties it was clear no school or school board had thought fit, for at least twenty years, to get him out of the classroom which showed a dereliction of duty on their part. The students who wanted to learn from him should have had some route whereby they could make it clear they were not satisfied with his performance.I think giving students a means by which they can influence the hiring and firing of teachers is a good idea providing it is carefully thought out and strict guidelines (not including daft things like demanding a teacher sing) are in place to prevent frivolity and spite. One of the first rules should be that only students with the highest average marks should be given a say as they are obviously the ones who take their education seriously. Sun 04 Apr 2010 13:43:06 GMT+1 angelscomeinthrees My children are at primary school, and the Head uses the school council to push through policies that he knows will be unpopular with parents. He puts suggestions to the children in such a way that they think they are great, and then we are presented with it as an 'initiative' on the part of the pupils that would be 'unfair' and 'demoralising' to reject.No wonder so many schools love having a school council. Sun 04 Apr 2010 13:27:08 GMT+1 Jess At my school we have a Student Advisory Council.It's mainly run by Year 11s, with a teacher overseeing it and having the ultimate view on what can and can't be done. It's run for years 7-11 and even in year 11 you realise how silly some of the suggestions are.Student voice can be extremely helpful - we now have better lighting on the paths near roads which the teachers didn't pick up on. Sometimes you realise that some students aren't giving feasable options for things to be improved.I think you need a degree of student participation in school - obviously not on things such as, timetables and teachers being employed by the school, but for smaller things like lunch options and school uniform maybe. Students have a different view of the school, so it's better to get their views on some things - while you may not actually use them, it can be helpful to see the otherside of a view. Sun 04 Apr 2010 13:25:17 GMT+1 Doctuer_Eiffel If they are intelligent enough they would be sueing the teaching profession for perpetuating the lie that education will get you a good job with a living wage. In a country without a manufacturing industry it is an impossibility for the larger majority. The students/pupils would be better of going out on strike nationally until the politicians get on their bikes and cycle to China to bring back our once great British manufacturing industry. Sun 04 Apr 2010 13:19:47 GMT+1 Doctor Bob 389. At 11:08am on 04 Apr 2010, Silver Surfer wrote:This is tantamount to the inmates running the asylum. Asking a potential candidate to sing is just a childish and stupid way of trying to make the interviewees appear "in charge". The job of selecting teaching staff is the responsibility of the Head Teacher, the local Education Authority and the Trustees of the school.Recommended! Sun 04 Apr 2010 13:15:18 GMT+1 Le Powerful I'm going to interview for my new boss on Tuesday and if they don't agree to give me a huge raise and 200 days holiday they're not gonna stand a chance. Sun 04 Apr 2010 13:14:48 GMT+1 YT It makes me laugh really, how many of you disagree with students having a say in who were having to put up with for the week. Students do not get the final say, it's a case of seeing how the teacher goes about warming up to the pupils. Primary school students I can see why they can't practicly do it, but year 9 + (college, uni ect...) should have some say not all teachers no offence are good at teaching GCSE + subjects and most of the time it's eiter down to their teaching style or personality. Which is important, I had no respect for a teacher after they messed up our coursework, spent most of the time fidiling with paper and mangeged to get us behind by 3 topics. The best interview ever I think would be a lesson conducted by prospective teacher and the not most hardest working pupils in year 10 or 11. Sun 04 Apr 2010 13:06:51 GMT+1 Crosswired world we live in When these young people leave education they may enter work, what will they expect, to tell a boos/ceo/senior how to do their job? What does a 9yr old know about experienced teachers to be capable of having a say on appointment and yearly reviews. This whole process is mindless. Sun 04 Apr 2010 13:06:47 GMT+1 Timothy Lewis Surely this can't be another "Duty Of Care" thing, so that when things go wrong, the education authorities can blame the pupils for choosing the wrong teacher? Sun 04 Apr 2010 12:58:40 GMT+1 joodith What?! I'm all for students contributing in comparatively trivial matters such as lunch menus, or school uniforms, so they get the feel of handling a small amount of responsibility, but the very idea of allowing them a say in who is, or is not, hired is ridiculous. They might as well hang a sign in the school hall saying "Here's where we undermine our teachers". Kids have been given far too many rights and had all the boundaries removed, and what do we have? Total mayhem, with no respect at all for those who once had authority, ie paremts, teachers, anyone wearing a uniform, from nurses to policemen, and adults in general. That old saying about the patients running the asylum seems to be relevant here. Sun 04 Apr 2010 12:55:53 GMT+1 ian cheese While we are at it can we also have a scheme whereby toddlers can choose who their nursery minders are & also for dogs, say, their carers? Sun 04 Apr 2010 12:50:14 GMT+1 haripotir What do you expect from this MAD country of ours. Britain is crazy. Let these "students" interview this bunch of politicians that lead and make the laws that we have to abide by, then it might have some effect before this coming election.I would agree that students who would be voted in to a panel to represent their cases/formats to the proper boards within colleges/universities should be heard.To have young school children interviewing their teachers if they are suitable. Is it based on: We like the look of them, no homework promises,longer school breaks, do not shout or your out, let us play games when we get tired of lessons, type questions ? Teachers should walk out of their teaching fraternities until the person who thought this up is kicked out of this country as we have more than enough idiots to bear. Sun 04 Apr 2010 12:37:24 GMT+1 BluesBerry Students should be involved in as many aspects of selection & review as feasible.Interviewing prospective teachers seems feasible. Feedback on how teachers perform in class seems feasible.Making opinions about the suitability & competence in the classroom seems feasible.Who should know better whether the student feels exicted about learning, challenged, assisted when needed, etc, than the acutual student. NASUWT (National Association of Schoolmasters/Union of Women Teachers) – Is this union only women?Anyway, what does NASUWT stipulate as the key trespasses of student involvement? I mean do we want students uninvolved, little tin cans ready to filled up with whatever slop some teacher pases along in a dull monotrone to a brain to dulled to think? So NASUWT "reveals" some schools are using pupils to answer questions about teachers' competence and to help interview them for promotions. When I was in school, we had Student Councils at each Grade level. The Student Council President, elected by fellow students, had an open-door policy directly to the Principle. The system worked will.To be good teachers, teachers need to be confident, empowered…I have my doubts about a teacher who can be intimidated, disempowered by student opinion; in addition, her co-staffers, including principle will have a depth of opinion about whether the stdents are right or wrong. So, what's the problem?Who should know better whether the student feels exicted about learning, challenged, assisted when needed, etc, than the acutual student. The NASUWT (National Association of Schoolmasters/Union of Women Teachers) – women and male?What does NASUWT stipulate as abuses of student involvement? I mean do we want students unilvolved, little tin cans ready to filled up with whatever slop some teacher pases along in a dulkl monotrone. So NASUWT reveals schools are using pupils to answer questions about teachers' competence and to help interview them for promotions. When I was in school, we had Student Councils at each Grade level. The Student Council President, elercted by fellow students, had an open-door policy directloy to the Principle. To be good teachers, teachers need to feel confident, empowered…I have my doubts about a tracher who can be intimidated, disempowered by student opinion; in addition, her co-staffers, including principle should have a depth of opinion about whether the stdents are right or wrong. Sun 04 Apr 2010 12:24:51 GMT+1 sonofsaracen20 Just reading through some of these comments is enough to demonstrate why students should be given a say. You seem to automatically equate "student" with "child" - that is simply not the case. Yes, a child is rarely going to be able to provide accurate and useful feedback, but can you really apply that to a 17-year-old, who is considered mature enough to fight and die for his country? What about an 18-year-old, who is considered mature enough to vote? Feedback forms are compulsory in a number of universities for a reason. By the logic displayed here, even adult students should be barred from expressing any opinion related to teaching.Yes, there must be a professional distance maintained between teachers and pupils. Adopting the anonymous feedback forms in the style of the universities can be used here. But it should also be recognised that "student" covers a wide range of ages and levels of maturity. The more mature a student is, the more say they should be given. It does not need to be a straight "Yes/No" answer. Sun 04 Apr 2010 12:23:15 GMT+1 Ann If the child can have a voice on the choosing of teachers, can the teachers therefore have a choice on the children they teach? Can they refuse to teach unruly, rude and disruptive children? No.Can a teacher call a child 'humpty dumpty' or some other childish humiliating label without censure? No.The schools are empowering children over adults in a discriminatory way. Children are deemed by wider society too immature to vote, drive etc and in need of protection by the state. This is for a reason. The children show their immaturity, spitefulness and lack of judgment in response to inappropriate responsibility being foisted upon them. I didn't ever think I would agree with a teacher's call for action but it is an affront to teacher's dignity to be judged by other people's children who have no life experience, education and understanding of the world. Sun 04 Apr 2010 12:13:40 GMT+1 hockeyfan I have to say that this crazy concept is something that I thought would have only been hatched in the American public education system. As a teacher in America all kinds of absurdities are being planned e.g. teacher salaries would be based on a student's test score (which have no bearing on the students academic career). I am happy to see that in Britain people are not jumping on the "have the child play the adult" bandwagon. Adults are there to guide children and while children should have a say in some issues they do not have the experience and are not developmentally capable of seeing long-term consequences for their choices. Sun 04 Apr 2010 12:13:29 GMT+1 Superclue The Democratic falacy is that most adults are intelligent enough and knowledgable enough to be able to cast a meaningful vote in an election.Taking this one extreme we arrive in a world where pupils would be expected to elect their own teachers. What a preposterous idea. It would never happen in the Real World.Next thing is these pupils would be voting themselves a salary - one higher than their teachers because of all the work they have to do in class. Sun 04 Apr 2010 12:10:01 GMT+1