Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html en-gb 30 Wed 05 Aug 2015 07:52:34 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html margaret howard http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=99#comment176 171 Pickled Pete writes:"The sins of the British empire, if sins there were, were those of Scots, who enjoyed to the full the fruits of said empire, as well as English, Irish and Welsh. Pretending otherwise makes you seem either silly, prejudiced, ignorant of history or just needlessly provocactive."London & the British EmpireLondon was arguably the most important city in the world at the zenith of the British Empire. The city's position at the centre of the empire's exchange of commodities, cultures and ideas had an important and lasting effect both upon the empire and city. The government was primarily based in London, while London museums, universities, charities and societies were at the centre of much academic understandings of empire. It was a primary destination for peoples and goods coming from the empire to Britain.. Wed 12 Jan 2011 23:45:45 GMT+1 WebAliceinwonderland http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=98#comment175 'L' like Lwów (Lviv)"W" (in English we speak here) like in Ladoga.______________?You mean that English speakers tend to pronounce L like "w" when it's followed by an "a" ???I didn't know.re 'btw'PS I think the mis-hap that happened to your post 160 should have happened with your post 160 instead :o)))))) Alternatively, some soap could be applied :o))))) Wed 12 Jan 2011 23:37:03 GMT+1 cool_brush_work http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=98#comment174 143. At 12:15pm on 12 Jan 2011, margaret howard wrote:"...Also you must consider why their goods are so cheap and ask yourself if you or your children would like to work under the sort of conditions chinese people have to endure. Europe in general left those behind in the 19th century and I wouldn't like to return to them for the sake of cheap goods..."PLUS,159. At 1:38pm on 12 Jan 2011, margaret howard wrote:"..Considering their treatment in the 19th century by the European powers, especially the English when the boot was on the other foot...... They haven't forgotten the opium wars or the loss of face they had to endure when they were forced to cede trading ports nor the fact that so many of them were sent as coolies to labour in the British Empire..."Now Margaret, this is a toughie so I'll understand if You back off and just write some dross about the English.Still, would You like to SPOT the 'Historical connection' between these 2 episodes, ***Europe in general left those behind in the 19th century***, AND, ***so many of them were sent as coolies to labour in the British Empire*** ?As I said it is a toughie for You because it does imply You will need to think beyond the end of Your prejudices to the Factual Reality of how in Biblical terms Quote 1 BEGAT Quote 2!? Wed 12 Jan 2011 23:30:05 GMT+1 cool_brush_work http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=97#comment173 171. At 3:10pm on 12 Jan 2011, PickledPete wrote:margaret howrad #159:"Considering their treatment in the 19th century by the European powers, especially the English when the boot was on the other foot and they practised their so-called gunboat diplomacy, we really should be worried!"'The sins of the British empire, if sins there were, were those of Scots, who enjoyed to the full the fruits of said empire, as well as English, Irish and Welsh. Pretending otherwise makes you seem either silly, prejudiced, ignorant of history or just needlessly provocactive. Maybe it's all four, but whatever, it stiffles sensible debate and upsets your fellow countrymen. Please stop it.'PickledP, mate!There were of course many sins, some unspeakably disgraceful committed by those Britons involved in the former British Empire. Most on here never dispute that: We simply call for a balance of perspective in which the overload of condemnation of GB's villainy gives way to recollection other Nations were upto their venal, vindictive, bloodied, eyebrows in the same.A few, MargaretH is one clear-cut example, not only almost entirely blame the British Empire for every wrong done to human & land, but she uniquely attaches all that Imperial catastrophe to the 'English'! On these blogs the 'fragrant' Margaret has an unenvied reputation for the most one-sided, biased, plank-in-the-eye (one could say, 'perfidious'!) version of 'warts & all' British History: To be blunt, I began using the term 'fragrant' about the Scots lady over a year ago when it became obvious from her repeated contributions that in her opinion her Scotland's excrement did not stink in any circumstance where England/English could be substituted for factual reality!Thus PP, I guarantee in MargaretH's utterly prejudicial mind-set there is no "..maybe..", and there is only "..silly, prejudiced, ignorant of history.." and "..needlessly provocactive" to account for such comments. Wed 12 Jan 2011 19:49:55 GMT+1 Mathiasen http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=97#comment172 @172, GenerallissimoI have already noticed that the link is missing. We should probably not turn this into a blog about music, but let me just mention that the article in the German jazz encyclopedia on Leviev is much longer than the one in JazzGrove.The reason is of course that the latter is dominated by Americans, while the former has a lot more interest in European Jazz/music.Helmut Schmidt, the former chancellor, very recently mentioned the music, the European music, as one of the constituents of European identity. No doubt that he is right. Since this blog will continue to deal with the Euro and the European institutions etc, we will have to conclude that other parts of the joint European conversation must be conducted in other fora and with more languages than English. Wed 12 Jan 2011 16:18:17 GMT+1 generalissimo66 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=96#comment171 @ 164 MathiasenI am sorry. It seems that I have broken the rules of the blog. The link to Milcho Leviev's works I typed for you has been erased by the moderators.Sorry friend Wed 12 Jan 2011 15:50:54 GMT+1 PickledPete http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=96#comment170 margaret howrad #159:"Considering their treatment in the 19th century by the European powers, especially the English when the boot was on the other foot and they practised their so-called gunboat diplomacy, we really should be worried!They haven't forgotten the opium wars or the loss of face they had to endure when they were forced to cede trading ports nor the fact that so many of them were sent as coolies to labour in the British Empire".++++++++++++++++++++++++Margaret,one of the most persistent complaints seen on Brian Taylor's blog by the Scottish Nationalists is the habit of some people interchanging the word's "British" and "English" to suit their own agenda. As a Scot, can you please explain why you persist in doing it too? The sins of the British empire, if sins there were, were those of Scots, who enjoyed to the full the fruits of said empire, as well as English, Irish and Welsh. Pretending otherwise makes you seem either silly, prejudiced, ignorant of history or just needlessly provocactive. Maybe it's all four, but whatever, it stiffles sensible debate and upsets your fellow countrymen. Please stop it. Wed 12 Jan 2011 15:10:08 GMT+1 generalissimo66 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=95#comment169 @ 164 MathiasenI also like Duke Ellington. Here's a piece of music our compatriot Milcho Leviev dedicated to Duke Ellington. They were close friends. Milcho is Bulgarian but emigrated in the US during the communist rule. He comes back to Bulgaria two times a year to give concerts and to see friends and relatives.I am proud that Milcho Leviev as master of the jazz arrangement and as excellent jazz pianist and interpretor is on the top level among the present genius Jazzmen of the globe. Most of his works are based on the Bulgarian Folklore (more precisely on the Rodopa songs).@159 Margaret HowardThe Bible has not the monopoly over the universal values. That is correct. Nobody does. But I dare say that the universal values have been shaped ever since the collapse of the Roman Empire through a painful, at times (I mean the Middle Ages) risky search for the truth that would make the sense of human life more understandable. The proliferation of the Christianity that was achieved (alas) hand in hand with the colonisation of the planet was another reason to make speak all nations a similar language, I mean using understandable terms concerning such categories like evil, generosity, faith, etc.Regards Wed 12 Jan 2011 15:09:36 GMT+1 champagne_charlie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=94#comment168 #259margarethoward;And just in case you dont bother to read, or choose to ignore , the second link, let me paste a few choice bits for you to digest...better take an antacid though..."Highland regiments fought with pride in campaigns in India, Africa and Afghanistan, commanded by Scottish generals. Between 1885 and 1939, ONE THIRD of colonial governors-general were Scots.""It was once boasted that without the input of Scots businessmen, engineers, explorers and soldiers, there would have been no British Empire."And the best of all:"Scots thought of themselves as natural empire builders."Perhaps you wont want to recognise the validity of the website?"-Learning and Teaching Scotland, funded by the Scottish Government", Wed 12 Jan 2011 15:07:21 GMT+1 Huaimek http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=94#comment167 #143 Margaret HowardI did not say that the rise in the cost of living was the fault of the Euro . When Britain joined the EEC and decimalised Sterling ; the pound effectively halved in value . The EU has regulated prices across Europe and taxed imports . Cheap imports from the colonies(QOT) get taxed now so no advantages are gained . We pay more and more for everything . When the Mediterranean countries joined the Euro , for example , a Lira300,000 house became €300,000 , a huge jump in price .Much depends on what Chinese goods a country imports . I lived in Italy for a number of years ; the Italians imported a lot of very good and serviceable items . One might not afford expensive goods , so if one buys cheap goods that don't last so long one can afford to buy again . I have bought some excellent Chineses goods that will last for years .In my opinion the Euro is at greater risk of speculation than individual currencies . It has to be more difficult to speculate against 27 currencies than one . Once a country has returned to its original , it is up to them to manage there own affairs , it is no longer a centralised EU responsibility , or of concern to other countries .Cart before the horse , the Euro was doomed to failure before it started , probably as a result of the speculators encouraging the ignorant politicians to take a course from which there would be rich pickings for the speculators . Wed 12 Jan 2011 15:04:16 GMT+1 champagne_charlie http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=93#comment166 #159margarethoward; "Considering their treatment in the 19th century by the European powers, especially the ENGLISH when the boot was on the other foot and they practised their so-called gunboat diplomacy""so many of them were sent as coolies to labour in the BRITISH Empire"You're not much good at this are you? Let me help you out:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1707http://www.ltscotland.org.uk/scotlandshistory/makingindustrialurban/empire/index.asp Wed 12 Jan 2011 15:00:41 GMT+1 MaudDib http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=93#comment165 137. Alice"From the urgent news:A first Pakistani rocket has crossed the borderline between Pakistan and India! Further on it didnt proceed, as the soldiers dragging it got exhausted at this point and dropped it.":o)))))))))0Be careful Alice. You may become object of a "fartwa". :o)) Wed 12 Jan 2011 14:20:12 GMT+1 Mathiasen http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=92#comment164 There seems to be a misunderstanding here following from the fact that the last three Danish prime ministers all have had the family name Rasmussen (which in fact is not the most common Danish family name.):1) Poul Nyrup Ramussen2) Anders Fogh Ramussen3) Lars Løkke Ramussen.Nr 1 is today chairman of the European Social Democrats, Nr 2 is today secretary general in Nato, nr. 3 is the present prime minister. Many of us hope that he will lose this position within few months and then regime of the Rasmussens will be over.The supreme court case is against nr. 3, but the Lisbon treaty was actually signed by nr. 2. Wed 12 Jan 2011 14:19:41 GMT+1 Mathiasen http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=92#comment163 Bloggers,@82 Generalissimo,Happy new year to you too - and the rest of the bloggers. I have published a book, right. I can tell you that I among other things am interested in Duke Ellington, and if you google what you now know, his and my name, you should indeed be able to find my website. (I am not sure that BBC will allow me to write the link.) I will publish the book this year in English.@148 Cool Brush (not cool jazz!)I can only confirm that the Danish supreme court has accepted to litigate a case against the prime minister and the Danish government on the claim NOT that the treaty is not conform with the Danish constitution but that the passing of the law, which enables the prime minister to sign, has not been following the rules. It should either have been passed 5/6 of the members of the parliament or endorsed by a referendum. Notice: So the claim.If I were you, I would let the champagne rest till you see the verdict. I do not expect the Danish government to lose. Let us return to the matter if that happens - and will take some time before the verdict is there. Wed 12 Jan 2011 14:13:00 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=91#comment162 We only have two clocks it seems across :o)))))) the country in official buildings (Kremlin tower and Duma building in St. Petersburg), somehow are less fond of time management than you are ;o))))))))Alice, unfortunately in my line of work, I need a clock precision up to one microsecond.[no, clocks I use are usually not dragged down from belfries. :-)))]Perhaps that's why Ive spotted so easily a discrepancy of several seconds in some places on those flight recorder tapes handed over by the Russian side after many months of 'obrabotka'. :-) Wed 12 Jan 2011 14:11:47 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=90#comment161 WebAliceinwonderland wrote:What can one do with a belfry clock?Sell for scrap metal?Like those 'vors' who steal kilometers of railroad tracks these days? :-)On a serious note, though, if your as huge as Ilya Muromets, you can use such a clock as a wristwatch. Wed 12 Jan 2011 14:04:31 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=90#comment160 PPSSome bug is your ears. Or may be you are fond of some unknown to me Lvov pronunciation. "l" - literature, St. Petersburg pronunciation. 'L' like Lwów (Lviv)"W" (in English we speak here) like in Ladoga.capisce, barishnya?[btw. "V" like "wor" and 'Kh' like...hmmm] :-)] Wed 12 Jan 2011 13:59:48 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=89#comment159 This post has been Removed Wed 12 Jan 2011 13:55:08 GMT+1 margaret howard http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=89#comment158 144 generalissimo writes:"Note also that they are not Christians like us. They are atheists and do not share the so called universal values which are nothing else than a modern interpretation of the Christian values. Even, if they try to be enough friendly to postpone the dept payment, the fact that they do not share our culture (no matter how different we are in terms of traditions, languages, etc.) will inevitably have some impact on our relationship with them. The mistrust will prevail gradually with all the negative consequences for us and for Europe as a whole... "I don't think it's got anything to do with Christian values but universal values are those basic ones all mankind share whatever their nationality. If the Chinese government chooses to play dirty then that has got more to do with the fact that they don't forget past wrongs. Considering their treatment in the 19th century by the European powers, especially the English when the boot was on the other foot and they practised their so-called gunboat diplomacy, we really should be worried!They haven't forgotten the opium wars or the loss of face they had to endure when they were forced to cede trading ports nor the fact that so many of them were sent as coolies to labour in the British Empire. What goes around comes around. Wed 12 Jan 2011 13:38:16 GMT+1 WebAliceinwonderland http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=88#comment157 What can one do with a belfry clock?Don't know of any ? carried over? and re-installed? in ? We only have two clocks it seems across :o)))))) the country in official buildings (Kremlin tower and Duma building in St. Petersburg), somehow are less fond of time management than you are ;o))))))))And our churches, in this respect, sport only a calendar, ordinary big paper one, knocked on the main doors of each. Reminding that today, for example, is 31st of December :o))))))))), New Year is tomorrow. Wed 12 Jan 2011 13:31:45 GMT+1 Buzet23 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=88#comment156 #143. At 12:15pm on 12 Jan 2011, margaret howard,"Personally I believe that if we returned to our respective currencies the big sharks which seem to run the financial world at the moment, would soon swallow us up whole and although I myself am no conspiracy theorist, a lot of people believe that that is excactly what they are trying to do with the euro."For once a reasonable post for you but your conclusion is a bit wayward. If we think about conspiracy theories then the forcing of the Euro on most of the EU has to be the best. They linked the successful economies with many dangerously unstable economies and economies run by politicians that cheat. The result has been that Europe is sinking more and more in debt as a whole and our indebtedness is being bought by guess what, speculators. Prior to the Euro an indebted country could devalue, take the hit, and reorganise, with the Euro that is impossible either with a single country. The only solution would be the demise of the Euro or its devaluation, and I can't see the latter happening. If the Euro goes the speculators will indeed have a field day and I'm sure that was in their minds when the Euro was first introduced against all logic and financial evidence, now there's your conspiracy. Wed 12 Jan 2011 13:26:14 GMT+1 WebAliceinwonderland http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=87#comment155 PSThe whole world knows that all the passengers of the TU-154M were dead even before the take-down began, and only FSB stayed at the wheel in the pilots' cabin.The same FSB who shot the same passengers (many) when on the ground.PPSSome bug is your ears. Or may be you are fond of some unknown to me Lvov pronunciation. "l" - literature, St. Petersburg pronunciation. Wed 12 Jan 2011 13:21:15 GMT+1 WebAliceinwonderland http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=87#comment154 powermeer,"Between the gossip, myth, and taleballads, fairy-tales, and accusations- We are fighting hotter than the Scythians! (did)For the incongruency of our delusions":o)))))))))) Wed 12 Jan 2011 13:12:08 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=86#comment153 12 Jan. 2011 - - the EUobserver reports - - 'that yesterday the Danish Supreme Court ruled admissible a lawsuit filed by 28 citizens against Danish Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen for allowing the Lisbon Treaty to go through without a referendum, in a possible violation of Article 20 of the Danish Constitution.'CBW: Considering Mr. RasMUSSen's current position those 28 Danish citizens should be preparing for a fully fledged NATO intervention. :-) Wed 12 Jan 2011 13:09:48 GMT+1 cool_brush_work http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=85#comment152 Fellow contributors, following on from my #117 (BBC News Report on EU 'Corruption') which no 'pro-EU' had the courage to respond to upto this moment I now add the following:12 Jan 2011 - The Telegraph reports - 'on the revelations made by Maarten Engwirda, a former Dutch member of the European Court of Auditors, about the covering up of irregularities and fraud of EU funds. Open Europe’s Pieter Cleppe is quoted saying: “This insider story should serve as a warning not to give in to EU demands for more money until the culture of financial irresponsibility is being dealt with more fundamentally.”'AND, in the next breath the EU lackey, Michel Barnier dares to proclaim,“I would see quite favourably a single European responsible for economy and finance”'In an interview with Le Figaro, EU Internal Market Commissioner Michel Barnier has noted that, in the light of the ongoing debt crisis, “we can think of evolutions” of EU institutions. He argues: “In my personal capacity, I would see quite favourably a single European responsible for economy and finance […] In a much longer term, one could also imagine that the [European] Council President and the Commission President become the same person. Moreover, the Lisbon Treaty does not forbid that.” Barnier also said that a new round of stress tests for European banks will start in February or March and added: “We need a European methodology to make sure that these tests are equally rigorous for each country and each bank.”'REMARKABLE (1): The EU is unable to justify its Budget for numerous years, its EUropean Parliament demands a 6% Budget Increase whilst 27 nations CUT spending, and Brussels' official Investigation Agency is unable to account for numerous mislaid/misappropriated monies allegedly due to EU corrupt practises.REMARKABLE (2): Barnier the unelected, unrepresentative, pompously inadequate Brussels EUrocrat simply wants to hand over 500,000+ Citizen Tax-Payers monies in all EU Institutions to ONE EU Official - - doubtless to be selected by negotiation behind-closed-doors with various additional Administrator posts carved-up/shared among other equally avaricious, uncontactable, unchallenged apparatchiks!One can only imagine the incredibly greed-driven, scurrilous skullduggery & scramble for this EU Post (envisaged by Barnier) with its dangerously Un-Democratic & Un-Accountable authority & power to administer such vast Brussels & Citizens' Funds! Such will be the access to wealth the monumental desire to possess that 'Finance Controller's' chair will surely lead in EU-Brussels' offices to outrageous blood-on-the-floor scenes unimagined since the heyday of Rome's Imperial Coliseum enterprises! Almost as REMARKABLE (3) is not one Continental EUropean Media has chosen to run this Barnier story with any sort of attention to the already lamentable condition of EU Financial Affairs at every level of every Institution within it!?SHAME on them all! Wed 12 Jan 2011 13:04:52 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=85#comment151 margaret howard observed:As for China. Yes, they enjoy a boom at the moment, but the products they produce are mainly badly made tat that soon falls apart.As far as Chinese products are concerned a term "cheap" has more than one meaning. :-))) Wed 12 Jan 2011 13:02:01 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=84#comment150 AiW Now, in the beg. of the 21st century, whole Russia is learning English.(never before we had such a wide choice) :o)))))))))But, may be, it's time to remember German of French?";o))))))))))) Don't you think that under the circumstances (140 million Russians to 1400 million Chinese ratio) it would be more useful to learn Mandarin?Or at least Cantonese?[I understand inhabitants of Primorski Krai are already doing it]While in importing used cars from Japan business (it seems nobody wants to buy Russian "Volga") - Japanese might help a little as well. :-)))))) Wed 12 Jan 2011 12:58:11 GMT+1 lochraven http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=84#comment149 #143 Margaret howard wrote:"As for China. Yes, they enjoy a boom at the moment, but the products they produce are mainly badly made tat that soon falls apart. People will soon get fed up and return to buying better made European products."They used to say that about the Japanese too; look at 'em now. Wed 12 Jan 2011 12:57:06 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=83#comment148 "Where it never been - in a church in Russia :o))))))))))))))))))"Alice! who said that soldier robbed a church in Russia?There were plenty of church belfries to steal clocks from in 'liberated' Zamość, Lublin, Warsaw, Breslau, Berlin, Hamburg, Vienna, Salzburg...[From the memoir of a citizen of Cracow:March 17, 1945: "today, at Karmelicka Street I met the first Soviet soldier.P.S. I managed to buy my next watch only in October of l953." :-)))))))) Wed 12 Jan 2011 12:49:41 GMT+1 cool_brush_work http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=83#comment147 Hello Mathiasen: If You happen to be around, have You any observation on the following report? I've looked in UK & European newspapers but found no political comment.12 Jan. 2011 - - the EUobserver reports - - 'that yesterday the Danish Supreme Court ruled admissible a lawsuit filed by 28 citizens against Danish Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen for allowing the Lisbon Treaty to go through without a referendum, in a possible violation of Article 20 of the Danish Constitution.' Wed 12 Jan 2011 12:41:17 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=82#comment146 Mumbling some Polish :o) ("tyazhoLye" it is, in Russian)Alice, if you're an English language instructor you should now that in order to get an approximately correct pronunciation of the Russian word you should spell it not 'tyazolye' but exactly the way I did.[TYAZHOWYYE]And if you want to mumble something in Polish: I don't think you're one of the co-authors of this phoney Russian report blaming the Polish government's Tu-154 crash on the Polish pilots?Since it would not be merely mumbling but plain lying, just like Kremlin did blaming Germans for the Katyn Massacre perpetrated by your NKVD.[which, incidentaly, the Polish governmental delegation, now pushing up permafrost at Severny, went to commemorate in the first place. :-(]----------------------------------------------------------------------------"Pa frnatsuski 'le sabon', no pa ruski - myWo..." etc. Wed 12 Jan 2011 12:39:56 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=81#comment145 powermeerkat"[of course now Poland's reserves are not in Ft. Knox, but in Brussels. :-)"Afraid not, the reserves of all the Eurozone countries went to the ECB in Frankfurt just before the Euro was introduced as I saw some of the Belgian convoys leave Brussels.buzet, does it mean that those monies can take off from Frankfurt Int. for Burma, Iran, Ivory Coast, N. Korea, Sudan or Zimbabwe at any time? Wed 12 Jan 2011 12:24:55 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=81#comment144 To Joao from Portugal, re "Meds"I wish I could prescribe you something to dull your plain but it would be illegal, plus my suppliers in Colombia and Mexico seem to have had some delivery problems in recent weeks. :-))))))) Wed 12 Jan 2011 12:22:03 GMT+1 generalissimo66 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=80#comment143 @129 Buzet23"...it's a very dangerous game our politicians are playing."Note also that they are not Christians like us. They are atheists and do not share the so called universal values which are nothing else than a modern interpretation of the Christian values. Even, if they try to be enough friendly to postpone the dept payment, the fact that they do not share our culture (no matter how different we are in terms of traditions, languages, etc.) will inevitably have some impact on our relationship with them. The mistrust will prevail gradually with all the negative consequences for us and for Europe as a whole... Wed 12 Jan 2011 12:19:48 GMT+1 margaret howard http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=80#comment142 126 Haimek wrote:"Holidays in southern Europe were much cheaper prior to the Euro . I was a student in Italy in the mid 1960s , no problem at all ..The EU has caused costs of living to rise horrendously over the years . We were all so much better of before , leading our simple inexpensive lives . In the late 1960s my wife and I allowed ourselves £5 a week for all our day to day needs including running our small car ."Haimek, these price rises have nothing to do with the Euro. Thirty years ago my weekly housekeeping bills were about the same as I pay my window cleaner now. Our house cost about an eighth of what it is worth now and I remember being quite shocked when the price of petrol went up to £1 a gallon when it is now over £5. You need to take out a morgage to afford a British Rail season ticket into the capital. Britain is not in the eurozone yet price comparisons with Germany which we visit a lot and which is in the euro are not much different. Aside from fuel and food which are roughly the same, many things are in fact much more expensive in the UK, starting with house prices, railway fares, alcohol, cigarettes,costs in the hotel and catering industries. Farmers were subsidised in the UK before joining the EU to the anger of many of its citizens complaining about their extravagant lifestyle. Unless a country is self-sufficient we are all dependent on the vagaries of world commodity prices and leaving the EU or euro would do nothing to bring back the sort of conditions you so fondly remember. Our trade deficit in the UK is horrendous because we have stopped making or growing things for ourselves. As for China. Yes, they enjoy a boom at the moment, but the products they produce are mainly badly made tat that soon falls apart. People will soon get fed up and return to buying better made European products. Also you must consider why their goods are so cheap and ask yourself if you or your children would like to work under the sort of conditions chinese people have to endure. Europe in general left those behind in the 19th century and I wouldn't like to return to them for the sake of cheap goods. Personally I believe that if we returned to our respective currencies the big sharks which seem to run the financial world at the moment, would soon swallow us up whole and although I myself am no conspiracy theorist, a lot of people believe that that is excactly what they are trying to do with the euro. Wed 12 Jan 2011 12:15:42 GMT+1 generalissimo66 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=79#comment141 @140 WA"Now, in the beg. of the 21st century, whole Russia is learning English."God keep old Europe! Wed 12 Jan 2011 11:57:08 GMT+1 Buzet23 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=79#comment140 #140. At 10:58am on 12 Jan 2011, WebAliceinwonderland France is teetering on the brink of being one of the next countries to demand a bail-out and has huge internal problems, nonetheless their president Napoleon, oops Sarkozy, is trying desperately to snuggle up to anyone and anything who they can try and sell their exports to in a last desperate attempt to stave off bankruptcy. It seems Sarkozy counts Putin as a friend, and that must be like going to bed with a viper, sooner or later you will get bitten. Maybe if Russia remembers French it will be time for a kick on the neck of another wannabe emperor, lol. Wed 12 Jan 2011 11:21:52 GMT+1 WebAliceinwonderland http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=78#comment139 Buzet wrote:"Afraid not, the reserves of all the Eurozone countries went to the ECB in Frankfurt just before the Euro was introduced as I saw some of the Belgian convoys leave Brussels. It was what provoked the comment by some that Germany had achieved by the EU what it failed to achieve by war, the assets of most EU countries. Now factor in that the head of the ECB is a Frenchman once suspected of misdeeds and the conclusion is obvious."____"In the beg. of the 19th century, Russians were fond of learning French.This vogue and admiration has ended up by us giving Napoleon several kicks on the neck :o))))))In the beg. of the 20th century, the key language to learn in Russian schools became German.This ended up by us giving Hitler several kicks on the neck :o))))))Now, in the beg. of the 21st century, whole Russia is learning English.(never before we had such a wide choice) :o)))))))))But, may be, it's time to remember German of French?";o))))))))))) Wed 12 Jan 2011 10:58:45 GMT+1 WebAliceinwonderland http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=77#comment138 Russian debt, though, China showed no interest to buy.Either we dont owe much, or, more likely o:)))))) they think it is price-less :o))))))))), that is, we might prove disagreeable :o))))))) to pay back. Wed 12 Jan 2011 10:53:08 GMT+1 WebAliceinwonderland http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=77#comment137 "I too am concerned about the Chinese buying EU debt; as they are still of communist mindset there is always an ulterior motive in this and democracy and freedom will not be part of that mindset. Just what will they demand when payback is demanded, at the very least unlimited access to our markets, but what else. Already they have bought a large part of the US debt and now they're doing the same with Europe's debt, it's a very dangerous game our politicians are playing."I object as well.It is enough we've got China on ones side, now that there will be China from the West as well ;o))))))), why! we are being circled! Wed 12 Jan 2011 10:49:25 GMT+1 WebAliceinwonderland http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=76#comment136 "Tyazhowye chasy" (='heavy clock', but also 'hard times') said a Soviet soldier dragging a clock from a 'liberated' church's belfry. :-))):o))))))))))Poor chap. Mumbling some Polish :o) ("tyazhoLye" it is, in Russian) , but then, acting on orders of Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky - what won't one do? Standing orders - might have even found a belfry clock. Where it never been - in a church in Russia :o))))))))))))))))))More likely is this scenario:"From the urgent news:A first Pakistani rocket has crossed the borderline between Pakistan and India! Further on it didnt proceed, as the soldiers dragging it got exhausted at this point and dropped it.":o)))))))))0 Wed 12 Jan 2011 10:34:13 GMT+1 generalissimo66 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=76#comment135 @134 Powermeerkat"Tyazhowye chasy" (='heavy clock', but also 'hard times')..."May I complete a little bit the denomination of the stuff. It's called "Tyajolie tshasi" (russ. "heavy wall clock").Note I am graduate from the St.Petersburg Naval Academy /1974/.P.S. The zloty coins (gold made) were really in circulation untill the 2WW. After 1943 (Bretton Wood), with a few exception, all golden coins were drawn out of circulation.P.S. I still appreciate the "Zubrovka" vodka. It's delicious and good looking with its greenish colour... Wed 12 Jan 2011 10:12:56 GMT+1 Buzet23 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=75#comment134 #132. At 09:21am on 12 Jan 2011, powermeerkat"[of course now Poland's reserves are not in Ft. Knox, but in Brussels. :-)"Afraid not, the reserves of all the Eurozone countries went to the ECB in Frankfurt just before the Euro was introduced as I saw some of the Belgian convoys leave Brussels. It was what provoked the comment by some that Germany had achieved by the EU what it failed to achieve by war, the assets of most EU countries. Now factor in that the head of the ECB is a Frenchman once suspected of misdeeds and the conclusion is obvious. Wed 12 Jan 2011 09:48:58 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=75#comment133 AiW wrote: "Generalissimo, not quite so ;o) I think I've got somewhere a "Katen'ka" (dear Catherine), 25? rouble banknote tsar times - and it'll definitely buy me more than modern Russian 25 roubles o:)"Tyazhowye chasy" (='heavy clock', but also 'hard times') said a Soviet soldier dragging a clock from a 'liberated' church's belfry. :-))) Wed 12 Jan 2011 09:32:28 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=74#comment132 "Same with a coin (looks big silvery) with Churchill on, comemmorative something, and come to think an old half-dollar? a dollar? with Kennedy on."It was the half-a-dollar coin, Alice.Now, with inflation being what it is (particularly after ObamaScare and his bank bailouts) our current Commander-in-Chief may have his visage commemorated on 1 cent aluminum coins (cooper getting too expensive). :) Wed 12 Jan 2011 09:25:59 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=74#comment131 generalissimo33 wrote:@98 Powermeerkat"But everybody in Brooklyn will still accept those 20$ gold coins from the 1920s and 30s. And even everybody in Manhattan."The end of the Golden Standard that was definitely sealed by the Bretton Wood agreement in 1943 does not exclude the gold as being used as cash. It excludes the gold coverage of the paper made banknotes.Do you know why Polish currency has been called 'złoty" (golden) in the first place?'casue it had 100% back up in 24 carat gold.And it was like that till 1930s.[of course now Poland's reserves are not in Ft. Knox, but in Brussels. :-) Wed 12 Jan 2011 09:21:21 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=73#comment130 Joao Coelho wrote:to post #14:"Gavin, and call it merely a ClubMed?"Can you clarify? Is this a reference to the Mediterranean or to the medication ( meds) the Portuguese are going to have to take? :)Joao, I don't think any presribed meds would work since I don't think the doctor prescribing them has Portugal's well being at heart.As a matter of fact I suspect he may be a Brussels-based equivalent of our Dr. Kevorkian. :-(P.S. I might be able to aplicate something known to dull a pain, but I'm not allowed to prescribe over Internet; plus my suppliers in Colombia and Mexico seem to have some delivery problems in recent months. :-))) Wed 12 Jan 2011 09:15:19 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=72#comment129 buzet wrote: Now we have seen Greece and Ireland and Portugal (soon) and others are next in the queue, do I feel sorry for Germany having to fund the bail outs, no, as they primarily lent most of the funds used to buy their exports, which is probably what the Chinese are now trying to do, um, er. I'd have a hard time to disagree with your analysis. :-)BTW. All this is peanuts (no offense, Jimmy Carter);wait for SPAIN and ITALY join the queue. Wed 12 Jan 2011 09:05:53 GMT+1 Buzet23 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=72#comment128 #122. At 00:05am on 12 Jan 2011, cool_brush_work,Very good, and at least many here will appreciate and understand it although it will be beyond the capabilities of QOT and MH.From her post #124, MH still believes in fairies at the end of the garden and that the EU is a benevolent harmless construct, poor girl.#127. At 08:21am on 12 Jan 2011, Huaimek I too am concerned about the Chinese buying EU debt; as they are still of communist mindset there is always an ulterior motive in this and democracy and freedom will not be part of that mindset. Just what will they demand when payback is demanded, at the very least unlimited access to our markets, but what else. Already they have bought a large part of the US debt and now they're doing the same with Europe's debt, it's a very dangerous game our politicians are playing. Wed 12 Jan 2011 09:02:16 GMT+1 generalissimo66 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=71#comment127 @82 Mathiasen"The government in Hungary can not say now that the big brother in Western Europe is meddling in other Hungary's affairs."Correct. We pass through the same purgatory now. Hopefully, both capitals (Budapest & Sofia) will be able to reconsider their standards for democratic ruling.Happy New Year! There are rumors that you have published a book. Congratulations. May you give me a link to your web site please.Thanks@79 John"Bat if you are interested go to the EU web site and see the good and the bad of the EU with my limited knowledge the good are approx 80% and the bad 20%."If we take into account the different cultures, the different mentalities, the different historic legacies and the different living standards of all the 27 member states, the ratio 80:20 seems to be a perfect achievement, a real triumph of the common sense and of the good will... Wed 12 Jan 2011 08:55:31 GMT+1 Huaimek http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=71#comment126 When the Chinese have bought all the Euro Bonds and effectively own Europe ; they will flood Europe with all their own products , cheaper than Europeans can make . There are already many good and cheap Chinese articles sold in Europe , but nothing compared to the possibility of unlimited maketing , which the Chinese would have a right to demand .Europe will become industrially unable to compete and millions of people will be without a job .To safeguard Europe it would be better to get rid of the Euro as soon as possible , let every country return to its own currency . There may be strife initially but I am certain every country will make out . Wed 12 Jan 2011 08:21:54 GMT+1 Huaimek http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=70#comment125 #79 JohnYou believe the EU propaganda . Most of what you list is of negligible benefit to the majority . In Europe you might not be stopped at frontiers to show identity documents , but you may be stoped several times in transit of any one country . You didn't need an international licence to drive all over Europe before . I moved to Italy before a health card , no problem at all , excellent health care ,all free after 65yrs . Most people couldn't care less whether they have EU citizenship , I don't recognise it at all , the enemy within , there are many like me .Holidays in southern Europe were much cheaper prior to the Euro . I was a student in Italy in the mid 1960s , no problem at all .People are capable and do make friends all over Europe without the EU Brussels . If Britain were not an EU member , she would be so much better off and more able to subsidise farmers than now .The EU has caused costs of living to rise horrendously over the years . We were all so much better of before , leading our simple inexpensive lives . In the late 1960s my wife and I allowed ourselves £5 a week for all our day to day needs including running our small car .The Cost and the negative aspects of the EU FAR Outweigh the benefits .Conflict between member states and EU Brussels could be the cause of a war . Wed 12 Jan 2011 08:04:04 GMT+1 cool_brush_work http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=70#comment124 Re !24Margaret, I'm delighted Your son took advantage of the 'Student railcard'.What I cannot make out is how that has anyting much to do with the EU: My 2 daughters (now in 30s) also used Student railcards in early 1990s an I recall similar jaunts by 'students as far back as when I was at Uni circa 1968. Admitted, these were not identical to the modern version, but I recall Edward Heath's autobiography mentioning he toured the Continent in the 1930s as a student.If You meant to say the 'open-borders' makes it easier then I must agree: For modern day Students that must be a real boon - - just as it is for modern day people traffickers & international criminal gangs! Wed 12 Jan 2011 00:30:36 GMT+1 margaret howard http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=69#comment123 79 JohnThank you for your list. We tend to forget just how many advantages we have enjoyed since the foundation of the EU and the keeness with which eastern European nations want to become part of this great adventure in European history is heartening and refreshing. We do get so many naysayers on this blog and your postings restore some much needed balance.Our family took advantage of so many things this new EU offered. During my son's school holidays he and other schoolfriends would spend a month each year using the wonderful student railcard right across Europe with sleepeer trains for convenience and cheapness and having access to free health services when they needed it. Later on he attended many semesters at european universities and he is quite capable of conversing in about half a dozen languages, all of it invaluable before he went to study at Cambridge. You mention so many other things that are good about the whole enterprise and I am sure that those young people like my son and his friends will build on this and help create a Europe that will be the envy of the world. This present crisis is a challenge that I am sure will be met and overcome. Good luck and please continue with your positive slant on the subject. Wed 12 Jan 2011 00:09:30 GMT+1 cool_brush_work http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=68#comment122 121. At 10:28pm on 11 Jan 2011, quietoaktree wrote:#119 CBW ---Now read Colin Bullen´s #28"I did, soon after it was posted and more recently.Which is twice more than can be said for Your mate, the fragrant Margaret! Wed 12 Jan 2011 00:07:39 GMT+1 cool_brush_work http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=68#comment121 121. At 10:28pm on 11 Jan 2011, quietoaktree wrote:"Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war etc.Poverty and the Pest be on Europe until you see the light of Freedom and Britain in its rightful place in the world !"Ah yes, the fabled tale of 'adventures in UK fantasy island' as told by QOT.In which unbeknown to 60+million residents they are wafted away to a "colonial" epoch upon which a "sun never set" and wherein these "uninformed", "ignorant" "serfs" & their "starving pensioner" elders toil in field, factory & office and are never so happy as when they "doff their caps" to "aristos" of "fabulous wealth", unending "privilege" and immense "royalist" led "parliamentary" power which is all held in place by dint of a "tyranny" the like of which the world has never seen "before" or "since" for "exploiting" "black, brown, yellow" "native" populations from far-flung "stolen" lands whose only reward is "torture" or "transportation" or "death", or all 3, so that a "nationalist" fervour might be imbued in the "british/english" hordes in their "hovels" amid the "poverty", "disease" & "injustice" of "britannia"!'Oh men & women shall shall think themselves accursed they were not there...'A tear falls, the flag is lowered and not a sound is heard throughout the land.It wounds the heart it does, verily it wounds the heart!Quite apart from which QOT makes no attempt: "Perhaps I should compose an essay and post it when a new contributor as yourself appears on the horizon ? (#103)"Instead he posts only the usual tosh & gibberish of disjointed, largely erroneous and entirely out-of-date innuendo as in the "quotes" from his comments that make up the bulk of the 'UK fantasy island'. Wed 12 Jan 2011 00:05:41 GMT+1 quietoaktree http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=67#comment120 #119 CBW ---Now read Colin Bullen´s #28"As one who has been in the fight for Britain's freedom from the European project since we first became involved I welcome the impending collapse of the Euro and fervently hope that it will presage the non too distant demise of the whole European Union. We warned years ago that a single currency would fail and we can now say 'I told you so'. The same applies to the whole political project intended to create a single European state which has been supported by the political class against the wishes of the vast majority of the ordinary people. When this monster has been consigned to the dustbin of history all who believe in freedom and democracy can rejoice.""Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war etc.Poverty and the Pest be on Europe until you see the light of Freedom and Britain in its rightful place in the world !---some party line and obviously attractive to some contributors ! Tue 11 Jan 2011 22:28:17 GMT+1 quietoaktree http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=67#comment119 #105 Buzet 23" There are many non-Royalists like me who much prefer to have a passive monarch as head of state than a megalomaniac politician who wants to be god e.g. Sarkozy."You must be kidding !!!--After such a powerful statement --- you kill the messenger ???????---yet again and again and again !I have yet to see proof that the links I have posted on this topic are partially or totally wrong !!!!---and stop crying every time I mention Britain ! Tue 11 Jan 2011 22:05:59 GMT+1 cool_brush_work http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=66#comment118 108. At 7:41pm on 11 Jan 2011, margaret howard wrote:At 76 Colin Bullen, a founder member of UKIP (88), is following in the footsteps of many other online contributers namely:Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1989 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[3][2] In other words, Godwin put forth the sarcastic observation that, given enough time, all discussions—regardless of topic or scope—inevitably end up being about Hitler and the Nazis."Margaret, even by Your low standards that is a really shoddy piece of argumentation. Your obtuseness is astounding for someone who boasts a Grammar School education!If You only 'read' that 'notion' in Cullen's #76 & #88 (& his #71) then clearly there's not a shred of credibility left to find in Your comments.The content of both 76 & 88 was erudite, informative and without rancour made astute observation on the tentative evolution of the 'anti' & 'pro' EU movements within Britain and Europe. Tue 11 Jan 2011 21:26:02 GMT+1 quietoaktree http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=66#comment117 #68 Busby2Thanks for the reply."---It was doomed to failure precisely because the economies of the Euro Zone are so different and have differnt needs."As far as I am aware both the CAP and the special assistance to regions took that into consideration ?"--For every Pound of deposits banks held they could lend 40 pounds."Canada also escaped the meltdown."--It took around 100 years for parts of the South to start to recover and begin to catch up. "I don´t believe one can use that example for the present PIIGS. The EU is aware of the dependence on agriculture and tourism and has invested in those countries with that in mind. Somehow " --- It was doomed to failure precisely because the economies of the Euro Zone are so different and have differnt needs."-- is still very difficult for me to understand.The gist of the argument still appears to be that Germany is too economically powerful for Europe ????---or the others are too weak for such an adventure ??? Tue 11 Jan 2011 21:22:15 GMT+1 cool_brush_work http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=65#comment116 Re #105. At 7:19pm on 11 Jan 2011, Buzet23 wrote:#103. At 6:37pm on 11 Jan 2011, quietoaktree,"...yet you have never ever made the same complaint about the way the EU secures its secrecy, about how MEP's expenses are an EU state secret, about how whistle blowers are fired, the list is endless. Thankfully in the UK the criticism can be made without the journalist being sent to the Tower, the same cannot be said of the EU and it's institutions."Buzet, it's interesting and so accurate You wrote that because herein is an article from BBC News dated 11/01/2011:'EU auditors accused of 'cover-up culture' by ex-member' A long-standing Dutch ex-member of the EU Court of Auditors, Maarten Engwirda, has spoken of a "culture of cover-up" and of reports being watered down.Mr Engwirda has said that in some cases the court's reports were being "sabotaged". He said he was so fed up he decided to write a book about it.The auditors' role is to check that the EU's 126.5bn euro (£105bn) funds are properly collected and legally spent.Mr Engwirda told the BBC the worst practices took place before 2004."Maybe a third of my colleagues had a special interest in the criticism of their country and in some cases tried to water down that criticism," he said.Mr Engwirda who has just left the post of Dutch auditor after 15 years said that when the EU grew in 2004 from 15 members to 25 the problem was already on the wane.In 2008, the Court of Auditors' procedures changed and Mr Engwirda says the issue now no longer exists. National audit offices now review the court's work.But he also suggested that there was pressure from the EU's anti-fraud commissioner at the time, Siim Kallas, to "relax its standards".Mr Kallas is now Vice President of the commission and his spokeswoman, Helen Kearns, told the BBC News website that while that may have been Mr Engwirda's analysis "that's not how Mr Kallas recalls the work in that period"."Very significant progress was made in that period towards positive statements of assurance," Ms Kearns said.The Court of Auditors has refused to give the EU's spending a clean bill of health for 16 years running.Mr Engwirda has said he intends to publish a book about his experiences in the coming months.Of course You cannot expect QOT, John & other 'pro-EU' to see this as anything but a conspiracy of negativity by the BBC.That it examines the views of former EU apparatchiks etc. will simply be glossed over as unimportant: However, almost every person who has ever worked for the EU and subsequently departed from it has made such claims. Given the revelations about EU Officials' '3 month holiday entitlement', the vast 'over-spend' on EU Foreign Service Officials & overseas Offices, the EP demand for a '6% Budget Increase' during a worldwide Economic crisis, the EU Subsidy to 'Dog-Training' etc. one is left to wonder when a Continental EUropean Newspaper, TV or Radio outlet will have the nerve to ever ask, 'What is Brussels actually doing with Tax-Payers' money?'Somehow, as John illustrated at his #9 with the demand Gavin Hewitt's reports "..should support the EU and EUrozone..", I sadly just cannot see any Continental EUropean Media ever having that sort of Journalistic integrity. Tue 11 Jan 2011 21:13:54 GMT+1 one step beyond http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=64#comment115 Re post 108, Margaret said -'Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1989 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[3][2] In other words, Godwin put forth the sarcastic observation that, given enough time, all discussions—regardless of topic or scope—inevitably end up being about Hitler and the Nazis.'On this blog substitute the above for the British Empire, which 'regardless of topic or scope—inevitably end up being about'. The only difference is that it will come up within a very short time, perhaps it could be left out of the next blog, won't hold my breath though Tue 11 Jan 2011 21:12:19 GMT+1 generalissimo33 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=64#comment114 @98 Powermeerkat"But everybody in Brooklyn will still accept those 20$ gold coins from the 1920s and 30s. And even everybody in Manhattan."The end of the Golden Standard that was definitely sealed by the Bretton Wood agreement in 1943 does not exclude the gold as being used as cash. It excludes the gold coverage of the paper made banknotes. Ever since that time, the US currency has been used as a reserve currency without whatever engagement of the US authorities to exchange unlimitted quantities of gold with the first intruder who would be able to pay cash in $.@99 WA"Generalissimo, not quite so ;o) I think I've got somewhere a "Katen'ka" (dear Catherine), 25? rouble banknote tsar times - and it'll definitely buy me more than modern Russian 25 roubles o:)Same with a coin (looks big silvery) with Churchill on, comemmorative something, and come to think an old half-dollar? a dollar? with Kennedy on. Just wait long enough;o) and old currencies are workable alright again."Well Alice, both the "Katen'ka" and those rare silver coins commemorating JFK or Churchill, or Nikolay II have a numizmatic value. They are kind of special commodities, not cash. Tue 11 Jan 2011 20:46:52 GMT+1 Colin Bullen http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=63#comment113 Re comment 108 and others:Where on earth do I say that the rulers of the EU are the same as Hitler. What I said was that they are petty officials who seek to advance their own self interest, not that they had any universal political aim. Just stupid, selfish and venal.Also my statement was a simple list of facts, not a diatribe!I am afraid that too many who write on the Web fail to read properly what others have written, answer points that have not been made, ignore those that have and lack the ability to spell or use grammar to boot. It is why I much prefer the forum of letters to the press where one can at least hope to find considered communications, not half baked comments dashed off without thought.Clearly this does not apply to all who write to blogs but it does provide a source of great amusement for Private Eye!Incidentally I would have no objection to being compared to Hornblower. Unfortunately I am far from heroic. Tue 11 Jan 2011 20:44:50 GMT+1 Buzet23 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=63#comment112 #106. At 7:24pm on 11 Jan 2011, margaret howard &#108,I see you are still as adept at proving the adage that there are none so blind as those who can see as you ever were, and that your rendering of Godwin's law should have been directed at your own friend on this blog. As for 'blue blood' don't make me laugh, probably even you have some 'blue blood' from a chance encounter by one of your ancestors, rofl. Tue 11 Jan 2011 20:40:05 GMT+1 cool_brush_work http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=62#comment111 Re #9. At 12:44pm on 10 Jan 2011, john wrote:"Gavin you are the BBC Europe Editor and in you position you should support the EU and the Euro zone."Yes, many of us are familiar with the fact a supine, unquestioning Continental EUropean Media no longer even bothers to 'report' in an independent manner on any EU issue and most of its alleged Journalists merely reprint simpler versions of Brussels' propaganda handouts.However, Mr Hewitt is from the UK where the Media & Journalism in general are not yet in thrall to the EU-Brussels entity: There is still a portion of UK Media that will not bend the knee to Brussels' grandiose pomposity & overbearing dogma of, 'EU is good! All else is bad!'Re #79. At 1:37pm on 11 Jan 2011, john wrote:"To all the people which state the pro EU/Euro do not know the advantage of the above because do not exist this is my list:1 This is the longest period with out war in Europe2 We are all citizen of the EU3 We are able to move in any country of the EU to study - work or retire with out to have a permit.4 After leaving the UK we con travel from west to east and from south to north with out showing any traveling document.5 We are protected by the work directive to stop be exploit by employer.6 We are protected by the safe work directive to stop accident at work.7 We have a EU wide driving licence.8 We have a EU wide health card.9 Our farm get help to produce our food.10 The travel directive set out our right as customers.11 The cost of using a mobile phone in the EU as been cut and fix.12 If we travel for work or holiday in the Euro zone we pay just once to change our money.13 And the must important the EU help all the people of Europe to retain our traditions and European identity."John obviously never read beyond the EU-Brussels' EUROPEANA Web-page to get the factual reality behind the alleged "80%" benefits:1: Yes, no war thanks to NATO, the European Economic Community (& even indirectly to the Warsaw Pact)!2: Speak for Yourself; I was never consulted and have never agreed to be an EU 'Citizen' - - come to that - - with 4 successive EUropean Parliaments not attaining 50% Voter Turnout & in 2009 only 43% Citizen participation please explain which Citizens do back it!3,4,5&6: Schengen has enabled record Crime figures in People Trafficking, Drug-Weapons-Counterfeit Goods Smuggling perpetrated cross-border with nothing to prevent future increases! The EU enables the easy transfer of Cheap Labour forces from 1 nation to another under-cutting the Rights of Indigenous/National Employment groups. EU 'Directives' are not worth the paper they are written on in general practise as disadvantaged National Citizens, the Roma, & Immigrants all demonstrate! E.g. the Lisbon Treaty specifically forbade 'Subsidy' and yet the EUro-zone Bailout package is exactly that!7&8: These existed under other names in the EEC & EFTA era - - nothing special about the EU incorporating them - - they were a fait accompli!9: EU Agriculture & Fisheries Rulings have severely reduced EUropean fishing & the 'CAP' is a hugely expensive Subsidy of which 30+% goes to France, plus CAP actively works against encouraging 3rd World Imports.10: Travel Directive is ok - - it is an updated version of the EEC one! 11: At last, something the EU did for the Citizens!12: EUro-zone... let's just pass on that until its future is clear!13: The EU does absolutely nothing to help Continental European or British Isles Culture-Heritage - - these all existed long before the EU and would thrive even more without the stifling, stagnating, interfering 'one-size-fits-all' straitjecket of EU-Brussels' legislation.Re #91. At 4:36pm on 11 Jan 2011, john wrote:"..Regarding the Common Market please read the first ten line of the treaty of Rome (WE WILL WORK TO ACHIEVE EVER CLOSE UNION).."John has mentioned the content of the Rome Treaty preamble before and failed to respond to my pointing out there is a MISSING KEYWORD in the 'ever closer union' pledge: So, for John & other 'pro-EU' benefit I will repeat it here.POLITCIALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICAPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITIPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLIPOLITICALPOLITICILPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPOLITICALPMaybe, the 'missing' word' was meant to be there, but the plain factual reality is that it is not. Therefore, 'ever closer union' for Economies, Travel, Trade... who knows!? Without that KEYWORD nothing is agreed. Tue 11 Jan 2011 20:38:53 GMT+1 Joao Coelho http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=62#comment110 to post #14:"Gavin, and call it merely a ClubMed?"Can you clarify? Is this a reference to the Mediterranean or to the medication ( meds) the Portuguese are going to have to take? :) Tue 11 Jan 2011 20:16:08 GMT+1 Joao Coelho http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=61#comment109 I am no economist and this post will show, but. The EU is not like the states, here if one state is going broke, it does not necessarily mean that the whole dollar is loosing out, but we will see lower prices or higher prices than other states. Post #7 suggested a central bank and that seems like a good idea but with sovereign states ( countries ), it seems that there is lots of political baggage that might need to be brought on. So how about something like the over the counter stock market. When Fannie Mae was delisted, it went on the OTC with fnm.ob at .30 cents. Let's put the euro for some of these countries with a similar denomination that denotes a fraction of the euro. For Portugal would be eur.pt, based on the original currency of the country - escudo.Just my 2 cents USD. Tue 11 Jan 2011 20:10:24 GMT+1 Joao Coelho http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=61#comment108 Portugal will get a bailout, but then what? Can someone explain to me how that will solve Portugal's problems? I have been trying to buy an apartment in Portugal but i have not seen prices come down at all. It seems that nobody over there thinks they need to lower prices in order to sell. Tue 11 Jan 2011 19:57:17 GMT+1 margaret howard http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=60#comment107 At 76 Colin Bullen, a founder member of UKIP (88), is following in the footsteps of many other online contributers namely:Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1989 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[3][2] In other words, Godwin put forth the sarcastic observation that, given enough time, all discussions—regardless of topic or scope—inevitably end up being about Hitler and the Nazis. Tue 11 Jan 2011 19:41:12 GMT+1 Buzet23 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=59#comment106 #88. At 3:51pm on 11 Jan 2011, Colin BullenYou have an interesting background and like myself have long been involved in politics although I stopped an active involvement in the 70's. It is a pity that so many are still blinded by the illusion of the dream that is the EU. Having known many politicians it is not difficult to see behind the words and having originated from the heady days of the loony left of Lambeth I never trusted the EU mandarins and their tricks and swerves that have been used to deflect attention to the failings. The Euro was always going to fail at some point and having been part of its introduction in a central bank, that was a 'never to be spoken about' secret, the politics of the Euro were all that was important, the disaster of the linking of totally dissimilar countries was deemed irrelevant. Now we have seen Greece and Ireland and Portugal (soon) and others are next in the queue, do I feel sorry for Germany having to fund the bail outs, no, as they primarily lent most of the funds used to buy their exports, which is probably what the Chinese are now trying to do, um, er. Tue 11 Jan 2011 19:31:07 GMT+1 margaret howard http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=59#comment105 78 Buzet wrote:"..absolutely nobody hankers for a return to the days of the empire. Why does QOT concentrate instead on the fact that many EU power brokers are from the European aristocracy, a top German minister being one such example." "Blue blood has come back in fashion: Britain has just elected its most aristocratic government in a century, its cabinet peppered with members of the landed gentry (including both Mr. Cameron and Mr. Clegg, the latter through the Russian-aristocrat side of his family)." Tue 11 Jan 2011 19:24:24 GMT+1 Buzet23 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=58#comment104 #103. At 6:37pm on 11 Jan 2011, quietoaktree,"and as yet have had NO intelligent replies refuting my allegations. #92 link is only the latest."Intelligent replies assume that you, in particular, are sufficiently capable of understanding them, so far that has never been the case regrettably for you.Your irrefutable sources/links have always been a rag bag of extremely biased, often far left rants, your latest is from that well known unbiased source the Independant, lol. The article rightly criticises the attempt to tighten the secrecy of the UK Royal family, yet you have never ever made the same complaint about the way the EU secures its secrecy, about how MEP's expenses are an EU state secret, about how whistle blowers are fired, the list is endless. Thankfully in the UK the criticism can be made without the journalist being sent to the Tower, the same cannot be said of the EU and it's institutions. Tue 11 Jan 2011 19:19:30 GMT+1 WebAliceinwonderland http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=58#comment103 "however a Royalist-leftist direction (I must admit) did not come into my sights.":o)These exist. If to trust popular English books ;o)))))I am reading "Admiral Hornblower" right now; he seems to have been a very democratic royalist. I hope Colin Bullen is not offended by the sudden parallel ;o))))))))(How captain Hornblower put Russian tsar to rights! ;o)))) by treating him with a ship meal of some dry breads and other? salted bacon. Thus demonstrating the worthiness of the country, who's got such enduring Navy, standing hardships of the ship life and still fighting Napoleon, and thus Capt. Hornblower charmed Russian tsar to the British side. Then he single-handedly involved Sweden into the war, protected Riga and thus, St. Petersburg, from Napoleon invasion, to put it short - quikly won the war on behalf if Russia ;o)))), charmed Prussia into the battle as well and hadn't read yet what else was achieved by this British Admiral :o))))))))) I'm not yet through to the end of the book. "Your credentials are impressive-- mine are only that of a world-travelling mongerel and vagabond and as Buzet 23 implied, possibly with rabies." Come on! quiet oak :o)))))))))) Tue 11 Jan 2011 18:59:34 GMT+1 quietoaktree http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=57#comment102 Colin BullenYour diatribe (#28) did suggest a specific mind-set, however a Royalist-leftist direction (I must admit) did not come into my sights. Your credentials are impressive-- mine are only that of a world-travelling mongerel and vagabond and as Buzet 23 implied, possibly with rabies.It is boring for myself and other bloggers, that I post the same links to British sources which more that question the British `Democracy´ you defend. Buzet 23 has mentioned the direction of my criticism, and as yet have had NO intelligent replies refuting my allegations. #92 link is only the latest.Perhaps I should compose an essay and post it when a new contributor as yourself appears on the horizon ? -- that is unless the British contributor knows something about the system in which he (or she) lives. Tue 11 Jan 2011 18:37:14 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=57#comment101 "It took around 100 years for parts of the South to start to recover and begin to catch up."And now Arizona leads the "change". :-))) [eat your heart out, Sherman!] Tue 11 Jan 2011 18:26:39 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=56#comment100 “We have a Treaty under which there is no possibility of paying to bailout states in difficulty”.- German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, 1 March 2010 ...'What a difference 9 months can make in a life of a woman. Tue 11 Jan 2011 18:24:27 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=55#comment99 "Next thing, CIA-inspired civil unrest in Venezuela"marchie, I hate to tell ya that, but Venezuelans don't need any instigation from CIA to rebel against Comical Hugo's authoritarian Commie regime. :-)))Just like Bolivians don't need any instigation from CIA to rebel against Morales, or Iranian youth against ayatollahs' regime. Or Cubans....[of course there are still those Mossad vultures and sharks...] Tue 11 Jan 2011 18:21:49 GMT+1 WebAliceinwonderland http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=55#comment98 "Ever since the end of the Golden Standard all banks have been emitting bank notes they gradually have been taking back from circulation, say after two decades. Just try to pay in NY a taxy driver with a $5 note of 1940."generalissimo, not quite so ;o) I think I've got somewhere a "Katen'ka" (dear Catherine), 25? rouble banknote tsar times - and it'll definitely buy me more than modern Russian 25 roubles o:)Same with a coin (looks big silvery) with Churchill on, comemmorative something, and come to think an old half-dollar? a dollar? with Kennedy on. Just wait long enough;o) and old currencies are workable alright again. Tue 11 Jan 2011 18:19:53 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=54#comment97 generalissimo66 wrote:@ 61 WA":o))))"Ever since the end of the Golden Standard all banks have been emitting bank notes they gradually have been taking back from circulation, say after two decades. Just try to pay in NY a taxy driver with a $5 note of 1940.But everybody in Brooklyn will still accept those 20$ gold coins from the 1920s and 30s. And even everybody in Manhattan.Gladly. :-))) Tue 11 Jan 2011 18:13:30 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=54#comment96 Generalissomo: "Once a year I pay visit to my daughters in Paris. The centre of the city is crowded with Arab and African youngsters, who smoke hashish in the open or organize massive protests on any occasion. If they try to conduct themselves like that in their motherlands, they will be jailed as soon as they appear on the street).Regards from Sofia"Forget Paris, generalissimo. Have you visited Toulon or MARSEILLE lately?I have. If I hadn't have GPS in my car I'd have thought I ended up in a souk in Rabat. Or Cairo.[not that London streets look these days like they used to 30 years ago. :-(((] Tue 11 Jan 2011 18:09:56 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=53#comment95 marchie wrote: "China's purchase of sovereign debt serves many purposes - none of them remotely altruistic ...Keeping American and EU markets in business gives a destination for Chinese exports so Chinese economic activity, and its living standards for its mainland citizens, continue to grow."What a sensible observation.Now, if PRC refuses to revalue its yuan (kept artificially low to boost exports) by at least 30%, U.S. (the biggest market for Chinese exports by far) may impose a wholesale 30% tariff on those cheap (in every sense of the word) products. [like it already has on Chinese tyres.]Since since Chinese economy is largely export-oriented, where will comrades from Beijing Politbureau dump their surplus?On Burkina Faso, Burma, Cuba, Ivory Coast, N. Korea, Sudan, Zimbabwe?[Since EU will have to follow U.S.'s suite if it wants to survive.]Inquiring minds want to know. Tue 11 Jan 2011 18:00:32 GMT+1 Buzet23 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=53#comment94 #80. At 1:44pm on 11 Jan 2011, generalissimo66,Yes I'm still around although not so much these days, I'll have to pay a visit to that blog.Regards Tue 11 Jan 2011 17:49:26 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=52#comment93 "As Gavin said, "In all of this never underestimate the determination of Europe's leaders to defend the euro". The Euro is an essential part of their desire for "an ever closer Union". Their pet project therefore stands or falls on the Euro and they don't care how much harm they do to the people of Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain etc in defending the Euro."Busby, it's not merely their 'pet project', to be fair.So many top European politicians/leaders supported the euro project over so many years that there's simply to much prestige to lose.Not only by d'Estaing and Chirac, and Schmidt and Schroeder, but Sarkozy and Merkel as well.As well as many others.Admitting that the project has failed would be tantamout to admitting that they've been village idiots not knowing anything about economics.And that's why, IMHO, euro will NOT be scrapped, come what may. Tue 11 Jan 2011 17:47:22 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=51#comment92 , quietoaktree wrote:#40 Powermeerkat"In other words - buying EU countries wholesale."Yes, after they bought America !Nope not really (all key industries being firmly in American hands).What Chinese comrades have done (like many others) was to put their money in the safest place possible. [US Treasury] :-) Tue 11 Jan 2011 17:39:47 GMT+1 quietoaktree http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=51#comment91 Buzet 23" There are many non-Royalists like me who much prefer to have a passive monarch as head of state than a megalomaniac politician who wants to be god e.g. Sarkozy."http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/royal-family-granted-new-right-of-secrecy-2179148.htmlWhich country have you chosen ? Tue 11 Jan 2011 17:19:53 GMT+1 john http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=50#comment90 To all the people which think i am a child or a dreamer.Yes to me the EU and the The Euro are the same.Regarding the Common Market please read the first ten line of the treaty of Rome (WE WILL WORK TO ACHIEVE EVER CLOSE UNION)The EU is my baby maybe i am to old to see a political union bat i hope will become a realty for the future of my children.I am totally fed up of the power of the credit rate agency and the USA economic system as Churchill said in his speck in 1947 ARISE EUROPEJohn Tue 11 Jan 2011 16:36:39 GMT+1 one step beyond http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=50#comment89 Re post 79, to answer some points1 This is the longest period with out war in Europe - much more to do with Nato and MA.D. than the E.U.,2 We are all citizen of the EU – we are also citizens of our individual countries, this is not necessarily good or bad, just a fact.3 We are able to move in any country of the EU to study - work or retire with out to have a permit – people were doing this without too much trouble when it was the E.E.C and even before that. 4 After leaving the UK we con travel from west to east and from south to north with out showing any travelling document. – interesting, so every time I leave the U.K. and am asked to supply my passport at border control at the country I arrive I am imagining it. I do not object to this, only takes a minute or two. Every time I use a credit card in Spain (with chip and pin) and am asked to provide a passport I am imagining it. When stopped by the police and asked by the Police for my passport I am imagining it. I have no complaints about these things, I am living in Spain and accept it. However since moving here I frequently have to produce I.D. documents. 5 We are protected by the work directive to stop be exploit by employer. – job of the Nation state, many of whom put in such safeguards prior to the E.U. If a country wants such safeguards there is a marvellous institution called democracy. You vote for a Government that can deliver it. I do not want unelected bureaucrats deciding what is best for me6 We are protected by the safe work directive to stop accident at work. -See 5 above, Health and Safety legislation did exist prior to the U.K. joining the E.E.C.7 We have a EU wide driving licence. – Again was never a problem prior to the E.U8 We have a EU wide health card. -Bilateral health care arrangements also exist outside of the E.U. For the U.K.it includes - Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bosnia, Croatia, Georgia, Gibraltar, Yugoslavia i.e. Serbia & Montenegro, Kazakhstan, Kirgizstan, Macedonia, Moldova, New Zealand, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan. Anguilla, Australia, Barbados, British Virgin Islands, Falkland Islands, Iceland, Isle of Man, Montserrat, St. Helena, Turks and Caicos Islands. You don’t need the E.U. for that9 Our farm get help to produce our food. – creating unfair competition and impoverishing farmers in developing countries10 The travel directive set out our right as customers. - Not sure what this adds to 3 above11 The cost of using a mobile phone in the EU as been cut and fix. Again there are mechanisms individual countries can take as well as working in harmony over particular issues. Does not require the E.U.12 If we travel for work or holiday in the Euro zone we pay just once to change our money. Prior to the Euro I took money from cash machines. Exactly what I do now, what’s the difference13 And the must important the EU help all the people of Europe to retain our traditions and European identity. – so if we did not have the E.U. we would all lose our traditions and European identity. Makes you wonder how we lasted for the 100's of years prior to the E.U.Despite the above I am not anti nation states working in harmony to sort problems out. It is the way the E.U. has developed to become so much more than we signed up for that I object to. Post 86 by David probably best sums up my position Tue 11 Jan 2011 15:58:18 GMT+1 EUprisoner209456731 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=49#comment88 79. At 1:37pm on 11 Jan 2011, john wrote:"To all the people which state the pro EU/Euro do not know the advantage of the above because do not exist this is my list:1 This is the longest period with out war in Europe2 We are all citizen of the EU3 We are able to move in any country of the EU to study - work or retire with out to ..."1) We have had war in Europe - in the Balkans. The fact thwat there has been no war in EUland is , in my opinion, not due to the "EU" but to a number of other factors tha main one being the presence of American troops in W. Europe.If it was true tha tthe "EU" had prevented war, it would not mean that it would continue to do so.The "EU" couild cause a war . "EU"-lovers have told me that the UK has no right to leave. Britisgh opponents of the "EU"-Dictastorship do not see it like that. The EUvil Empire might use force to TRY to stop us leaving. i.e. WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!The "EU" is about resentment of the Americans. The "EU" wants to be become a military superpower and would probably think it could take on the Americans.The imposition iof the Lisbon Treaty demonmstrated that the "EU"£ is sick, arrogtant and dangerous Tue 11 Jan 2011 15:57:30 GMT+1 Colin Bullen http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=49#comment87 Re comment 78 by Buzet23.Thank you for your support.I would like to point out however that the old divisions between right and left are in abeyance as we contemplate what has been described as the slow motion coup d'etat being perpetrated by the political elites of Europe.I remember that when I helped found UKIP back in 1992 and stood as a candidate in the 1994 European elections the national committee presented a cross section of views. The leader, and creator of the party Dr Alan Sked, was an erstwhile Liberal and associate of Jo Grimond, I, my wife and the chap who funded the party in the early days were from the Labour side, while others, such as the current leader Nigel Farage, were Conservatives. Although we have gone our separate ways since I know that none of us would retreat from our view that the European project is a disaster for all the peoples of Europe.I also spent many years on the national executive of the Campaign for an Independent Britain which was created by such Labour figures as Lord Jay and Lord Shore, the latter of whom honoured my wife and myself by describing us as comrades in the fight for democracy. During its heyday the chairman was Lord Stoddart, a Labour peer who gave up the chance of ministerial advancement because it would have compromised his principled opposition to the EU. He is one of the true unsung heros of politics and still fights the good fight in the House of Lords today, although he is now in his late seventies.The true division is not right and left but between intelligent believers in freedom and democracy and a self interested political class, supported by rather ignorant people who think that they are being so progressive and politically correct by advocating the single European state but are in fact helping sustain a reactionary and ultimately repressive regime which benefits only politicians and their bureaucratic sidekicks. Tue 11 Jan 2011 15:51:49 GMT+1 EUprisoner209456731 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=48#comment86 Quote of the year: From Open Europe:' ...“We have a Treaty under which there is no possibility of paying to bailout states in difficulty”.- German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, 1 March 2010 ...'EUpris:So it would appear that even the "EU" has no respect for the Lisbon Treaty.Why should the "citizens of the EU" respect it, especially when they were denied a referendum they were promised because the Arrogant Ones of the Evil Empire knew it would go the "wrong way" ?????????????? Tue 11 Jan 2011 15:50:25 GMT+1 david http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=48#comment85 John at 79 - NONE of those benefits need to be tied to the federalist intentions of the EU - or indeed to the euro. All could be achieved by a much smaller (and cheaper) administration, as was the original intention of the Common Market. Tue 11 Jan 2011 14:42:04 GMT+1 -StuartC- http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=47#comment84 The only question that remains for me is how much public money are the politicians going to flush before they finally let go of their self-evidently failing and damaging Euro project? The figures spent, in hundreds of billions, are already off the chart. Yet it seems nothing can be done to prevent the political elite getting together in their remote and undemocratic committees in Brussels and agreeing to prop up their vanity by helping themselves to ever more billions of public money to try to keep one euro country after another on the road.This slow motion car crash cannot be allowed to continue, especially when a bailed-out country's prospects for a quick recovery are very low without a floating currency adjusting to make them more competitive. They will obviously either need more and more bailout money and be locked into austerity for at least a decade, or will finally default and we lose all those billions in the process. But there is a third option.It's time to recognise that, by locking together mismatched economies, the euro is making a big problem a lot worse - just as euro-critics always predicted would be the case in a downturn. The euro straightjacket is what's now standing in the way of resolution and economic recovery. It's time for European leaders to stop papering over the cracks at vast public expense and face reality - their ill-considered currency project is finished.The least worst option seems now to put the single currency experiment out of its misery, ride out the shorter-term instability that will entail, and allow Europe's economies to float once again to their own respective levels. Just as when Britain finally left the Exchange Rate Mechanism in chaotic scenes to go on to enjoy a record period of growth and economic stability.Then we can have a major investigation into which inept politicians with delusions of grandeur about a European State were responsible in recent decades for putting such a ridiculous system in place on our continent.They must be publicly discredited if we hope that their successors will learn from history. Tue 11 Jan 2011 14:34:25 GMT+1 phillipwest http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=46#comment83 @79 JohnI'm sure you are a nice person, but your comments here I find entirely unconvincing if not almost surreal. The reality is the Euro is failing and my concern as a European resident is that it may be fatally flawed as explained for example by Freeborn John earlier in this thread. I would like things to work out for the EU but the centralization of power in the hands of people like Rompey and Ashton are discomforting not to mention the rube goldberg and scotch tape approach taken so far by these geniuses to stabilize the Euro. We need a Thomas Jefferson we have Rompey, we need Margaret Thatcher or Gold Meir we have "Lady" Ashton. This is depressing ... but John, you need to slap yourself and get some reality here ... this is not some meditation exercise, these are real events enfolding in front of our eyes on a continent with a pretty choppy history. As I say to my children regularly ... wake up! ... with all due respect :-) Tue 11 Jan 2011 14:15:08 GMT+1 peevedoff http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=46#comment82 Oh dear here we go again and to make things even worse it appears the future world leaders(china)are getting more and more financial power in the E.U starting with Spain.I can assure all countries who are stupid enough to sell themselves off to the Chinese will rue the day as the African nations are beginning to realise.This is a european problem and if they depend on nations like china to bail it out then its time to admit the euro is finished,drop the pride and admit defeat.Get us back to our own currencies asp no matter what the cost or let the broken nations of the E.U fail. Tue 11 Jan 2011 14:01:47 GMT+1 Mathiasen http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=45#comment81 Vaclac Havel, former president of the Czech Republic, Arpad Goencz, former president of Hungary, and Adam Michnik, editor of the Polish Gazeta Wyborcza have together with a number of other people now protested against the limitation of the democracy in Hungary in an article published in a number of European newspapers. The government in Hungary can not say now that the big brother in Western Europe is meddling in other Hungary's affairs.Sceondly: The appeal is addressed to the institutions of the EU, and the obvious background is of course that Hungary is now heading the union. Another is the European integration, which the writers - and many of us, the citizens of the Union - see endangered by the Hungarian press censorship. It is troublesome to EU to tell Budapest to change it, but necessary. Now the institutions of the EU - the parliament included - have a new reason. Tue 11 Jan 2011 13:54:05 GMT+1 creditunionhero http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=45#comment80 #25 Quite right,Looks like a mirror image of what happened in Ireland.Whatever will be..... Tue 11 Jan 2011 13:48:03 GMT+1 generalissimo66 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=44#comment79 • @78 Buzet23• "There are many non-Royalists like me who much prefer to have a passive monarch as head of state than a megalomaniac politician who wants to be god e.g. Sarkozy."• Sarko measures less around 165cm, just like certain Bonapart. It is quite understandable for us that he should try to compensate his insufficient hight with supra-active presence in the Ellisee palace, in Brussels, in some over seas French teritorry, or even on the ... moon.• Hi, and Happy New Year. The Smolensk mob has questioned me whether you were at sight... Tue 11 Jan 2011 13:44:37 GMT+1 john http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=44#comment78 To all the people which state the pro EU/Euro do not know the advantage of the above because do not exist this is my list:1 This is the longest period with out war in Europe2 We are all citizen of the EU3 We are able to move in any country of the EU to study - work or retire with out to have a permit.4 After leaving the UK we con travel from west to east and from south to north with out showing any traveling document.5 We are protected by the work directive to stop be exploit by employer.6 We are protected by the safe work directive to stop accident at work.7 We have a EU wide driving licence.8 We have a EU wide health card.9 Our farm get help to produce our food.10 The travel directive set out our right as customers.11 The cost of using a mobile phone in the EU as been cut and fix.12 If we travel for work or holiday in the Euro zone we pay just once to change our money.13 And the must important the EU help all the people of Europe to retain our traditions and European identity.This are same of the benefit i remember.Bat if you are interested go to the EU web site and see the good and the bad of the EU with my limited knowledge the good are approx 80% and the bad 20%.John Tue 11 Jan 2011 13:37:13 GMT+1 Buzet23 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2011/01/the_euro_fear_returns.html?page=43#comment77 #76. At 12:16pm on 11 Jan 2011, Colin BullenI'm on the opposite political spectrum but agree with your analysis of the failings of the EU project, it's undemocratic nature and it's stealth attempt to introduce a dictatorship. However to expect QOT to understand this is somewhat stretching things as he/she only looks at words like British, English, Monarchy and all else is to be ignored. The fact is that all big headed politicians (especially EU based ones) adopt the god (or king) synopsis as soon as they assume power. QOT comment said "With an existing EU, the privileges of the ruling elite could be questioned -- but such powers (as can be seen with Britain) are jealously guarded. "QOT just can't resist mentioning Britain and Empire even though nobody I know in the UK gives a monkey's about such dead history, and absolutely nobody hankers for a return to the days of the empire. Why does QOT concentrate instead on the fact that many EU power brokers are from the European aristocracy, a top German minister being one such example. The ruling elite within the EU is not a beneficial benevolent elite, it is an elite intent on creating an eventual dictatorship over 500 million serfs. There are many non-Royalists like me who much prefer to have a passive monarch as head of state than a megalomaniac politician who wants to be god e.g. Sarkozy. Tue 11 Jan 2011 12:53:57 GMT+1