Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html en-gb 30 Fri 29 Aug 2014 00:35:40 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html Malkava http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=98#comment62 @60 ptsaFortunately, I have the foresight to realize when a debate has run its course.When it degenerates into pointless sniping and nonsensical arguments, it becomes a ranting. I am afraid I cannot indulge you further in this.The point you are trying to make is still vague, as most of your arguments are mostly centered around my particular background - as if it somehow invalidates my opinion.Any remaining arguments you may have, you simply give various examples on why jobs are difficult to attain. Of course they are, I never said it would be easy. I simply recounted my own experiences which have helped me get to where I am today, even during the height of recession. This may or may not work for everyone, but at least it is an attempt to offer advice so that others may find solutions to better their job prospects; rather than the continual and dogged nay-saying at every turn.Let me simply end by reiterating my very first post (the one that had apparently sparked your ire). I bear no ill will to those who find themselves in unfortunate circumstances. However, I have little sympathy to those who do not expend the effort to better themselves or their circumstances. Any person who languishes and bemoans their present state without making a concerted effort to change is not deserving of sympathy.Best in your health and fortune, ptsa. Thu 30 Sep 2010 06:02:35 GMT+1 David http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=96#comment61 Powermeerkat, as a millionaire, there are many places in this world you could imagine living in ...I get the impression you have lived in many areas of the world...wow.But, you are as much a businessman as a traveler, are you not?Just curious...One funny thing to me, is that my brother, who is in the military and has lived in Europe, 2 places in the Pacific Rim and on an aircraft carrier AND hates to tour anywhere. When I visited him in the UK, (he is in Germany now) he stayed in his hotel living quarters and woud not go out, so I gave myself a tour of London in going to Picadilly Square, Westminster Abbey, the Tate(?) Museum, the British Museum (saw some marble ... sculptures there) and St. Paul's Cathedral.So, he missed everything while I toured. It was just his job--his being in London. But, that is him. He is aware of his surroundings, but not a day tripper.But, I get the impression you DO enjoy your travels:) Thu 30 Sep 2010 01:40:17 GMT+1 ptsa http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=95#comment60 @23 MalkavaYou at first say unemployment is rampant, in your first post (which is why young people don't bother looking for jobs apparently).OK I see why you make that assumption, it's because Gavin mentions they have given up looking for a job. I do not accept that, have yet to meet someone that has given up, all I see is people looking non-stop and getting turned down. Wed 29 Sep 2010 21:23:57 GMT+1 ptsa http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=93#comment59 @ 23 Malkava "You do know that costs money, right?"Not always. It is true, I have never been to Europe, but I would at least assume the average European citizen will have access to a library - one that I would hope provides educational textbooks for ones perusal. Internships do not cost money either, granted you usually do not make any money either, but it gives you the experience and more importantly an opportunity to put your foot in the door. Shall I consider that argument null and void?-------Internships are not that common in many places in Europe. Library? You can learn only so much. But when you are a young person and every job asks you for "Relevant" work experience, reciting an encyclopaedia does not help.---------"I used the word "OR" didn't I? So I was right."I never said I had always lived in America. I only provided information regarding my present living situation. Again, you assume incorrectly.Also, regardless of what you (or others) might think, I do not consider Europe to have financially reached 'rock bottom'. If you would like a reference to what I would consider rock bottom, please refer to Zimbabwe.----------1. I am working with the info you give me. If you want me to stop assuming, give more info as I did. If you don't want to share more, quit coming back to the same point. And you talk about "wrongly assuming", you started by assuming that all young Europeans that cannot find a job and HAVE to live with their parents because they are "Art Historians", lazy, not independent and not bothered to look for something else. You "assumed" that around 40% of Spains youth that is currently unemployed must be doing something wrong. 2.We are talking about the Western World where getting a job and not having dried feces for dinner is considered quite normal. ------------"If after spending a lot of time and effort and money on my higher education and various other apprenticeships as you call them, I had to leave it all behind to become a waiter (lots of demand) then why bother educating myself."That seems oddly contradictory to what you had previously stated, don't you think? Here is the quote if you have forgotten: "...there is not much you can do. Add to that unemployement (ie. no jobs, no matter how much time you have free so that you look for one) and the outcome is not that good."If what you say is true, and highly skilled work is non-existent, and that low-skilled jobs are in such abundance, why is it that there is any such existence of a "lost generation" as quoted by the article? By your account, it sounds as if there are plenty of jobs to be had, just none that people are willing to take. Is this the case? Pardon me if I cast doubt on your assertion. As to the comment regarding why you should bother educating yourself --truly? If you must ask such a question then it most assuredly is a lost cause.-------------1. No I am not contradicting myself. Usually you look for a job that will either offer you a career or is relevant to your skills or knowledge/studies/field of interest. Are there jobs still available? Of course, I can get the same unskilled jobs that an illegal immigrant would get, mop floors, work in a factory and earn 5-10 euros a day and live in a squat. Or I can keep living with my parents while I look for a job or while I look for a better job cause that's a bit better, especially if they are not "shooing" me out. 2. By educating myself, I am not talking about going to school so as not to be an uneducated scum. I am talking about getting loans and spending them on "specialized education" that ends up not being used. Shouldn't I feel bad if I spend tens of thousands of dollars and 4 years of my life to get (for example) a Computer Science degree, only to realize that it is as useful to me as toilet paper?------------"But how long can you do that for? If you go down that road you miss the professional experience you can get at other jobs while you are young and fresh out of college that will help you build a career and you will be stuck there for the rest of your life."Now, what exactly is stopping you from educating yourself while holding down a job? I have known plenty of students who have worked full time while taking night classes, and participating in apprenticeship programs during the weekends. All of the aforementioned students initially had low-paying, low-skilled jobs. Due to their hard work and persistence, they now have excellent positions and high-income salaries. I think the correlation between effort and reward is quite clear.----------Been there, done that at university. You may find it hard to believe it but people do that here as well. Did your friends have to do that for a decade before finding that "excellent position". You talk about different things, I talk about getting Work Experience relevant to your studies/target field of work after you come out of higher education. Obviously this is why I used the waiter example while being "fresh out of college". You are talking about finishing high-school or something and working while getting an education, which is not that rare here either. And again, when being 23-25 and looking for a job, and everyone asks for "Relevant Work Experience", all the night classes and apprenticeships in the world will not get you in.----------I am not sure what the business model is like in Europe, but the general rule of thumb is: High demand for skilled workers = Higher salary. Let me explain. If there are not enough qualified individuals to keep a business running, that business will do what it takes to retain their current workforce - including an increase in pay. This in turn will attract other qualified individuals to take positions in the company as well.------It is like that here, but in many countries there is a lot more supply than needed. This is exactly why people get mobile and, like me, choose to move elsewhere to find a job.------"There is nothing defeatist about seeing that SALARY(IES)-NECESSARY EXPENSES=NEGATIVE NUMBER. "I find it extremely hard to believe that with room mates/family and a full-time job with only the bare necessities, you will find yourself with a negative income. Use your common sense. If you find that you cannot afford to live in a particular area, you will need to move to another place where you can. The same applies for "necessary expenses".------Well I cannot comment on that or make you believe something you haven't experienced but just to say this: Take your life as it is now, divide your income by 4 and multiply your cost of living by around 2. That's exactly what my situation was like before moving away.You at first say unemployment is rampant, in your first post (which is why young people don't bother looking for jobs apparently).-------1. Unemployement is rampant, according to my post, news, statistics etc.2. People DO bother to look for work (still don't know how you reached that conclusion, this discussion started with people living at home while not being able to find work, it is you who assumed that they are not looking at all.)------- In your next post you turn around and say there are plenty of high-demand jobs, just not the ones people want. -------You may not want them because:1. Like the waiter example, it takes you nowhere. Believe me, these positions may be there but are already filling up by high-school graduates that have no student loans to pay and would be happy with that for the rest of their lives since they have no higher education/special skills/higher expectations. Or, they are occupied by university students who do that, but its like "been there, done that".2. Are very low paying and very low skill work positions. To give you an example that you may comprehend, any job that an illegal immigrant would do in the US and you wouldn't because it may be too messy or too low paying. Would a UCLA graduate who has spent tens of thousands of $ on education settle with cleaning/building/working in a field for 1$/hr or even less?? Before you start jumping, I am NOT talking about part-time jobs during college/high school/university, I am talking about a proper job, something long term, a career.-------You go on to conclude that if you take these jobs, there is the possibility that you will be stuck in this position for the rest of your life. I'll agree with you...to a point. In my opinion, if they choose to spend the rest of their life as a 'waiter', that is solely based on their decision to remain so.------True but again you dont get the example, I am not talking about a summer job, about a job during studies etc. I am talking about the real thing, if you want to get a good position when you're 25-30, everyone expects you to have "Relevant work experience". Waiting, reading books and apprenticeships won't give you that.---------On another note, of course the cost of living in the U.S. is cheaper than in Europe. You said it yourself, you cannot compare between the two and assume they are the same. In the U.S. large-scale government social programs are not the norm, hence the taxes are not the same. You will generally pay for insurance, transportation and other expenses on an individual basis. I would suggest taking these factors into consideration, as well.-------Yup, already considered all of the above. As I said, I experience them daily. By the way, since you mentioned taxes, here I pay way more and get way less out of it. But that is a different story. And in Europe, nobody pays for our transportation, that is individual too.-------Yes, I do base my experiences on what I have learned in the U.S. - it is because that is what has worked for me.--------So going back to my initial "assumption", where was I wrong when assuming that your opinion is such because of your location???--------If it is truly different in Europe and hard work and effort is not rewarded, I would suggest forming a new system government or business model quickly.-------I still haven't pinpointed the source of the problem yet.------- Wed 29 Sep 2010 21:13:07 GMT+1 Buzet23 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=92#comment58 #49. At 12:48pm on 29 Sep 2010, Inbxl,Great isn't it in a Socialist paradise, and no doubt they wonder why there are few jobs other than in the public sector who are still recruiting in Belgium.PS the Flemish are in the majority here so it's difficult to keep blaming the Socialist Wallons. Wed 29 Sep 2010 19:10:47 GMT+1 cool_brush_work http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=90#comment57 Re "..one foot in the grave.."You are so right!An excellent BBC comedy series that made 'Victor Meldrew' a household name; I sincerely recommend it as a very humoress 'lesson' in all that is 'grumpy old man'.Re "..forget how it is to be young.."Oh dear! Your 'life' so incredibly important You forget it is just one life and not the answer to all life: It's not too late... even for You. Wed 29 Sep 2010 18:17:15 GMT+1 Nik http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=88#comment56 Re54:"""As for having loose family connections - I believe you are mistaken. Just because you are far away from your family, does not mean you automatically lose your connection with them. Alternatively, staying in close proximity to your parents does not necessarily mean you are on good terms."""Precisely Malkava. Evidently above I was giving a caricatour. If you ask my opinion about "kick" or not "kick out" I have no particular opinion. As you said, what is of most interesting is to have young people that are active and productive. Wed 29 Sep 2010 17:52:37 GMT+1 new_germany http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=87#comment55 This sounds absolutely ridiculous to me.In 2004, the state of Bavaria introduced the 42-hours-week for civil servants, cancelled extra payings like the payment for holidays, made a stop in the hiring of the public service, made an end to many branches of the public service and so on.The socalled austerity measures you are on about are just nothing and ridiculous compared with the measures people are protesting against. Compared with the measures taken by the Greek state I can only laugh at their "austerity" measures...It sounds still like being in wonderland!!! Wed 29 Sep 2010 17:42:05 GMT+1 Ellinas http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=85#comment54 --✄-- As I alluded, still struggling to learn 'Life' lessons --✄--Of course i ought to seek wisdom because even if i'm still young, i may at the same time be old, because doing so i will have no fear of the things which are to come. You on the other side are so anxious to tell me you are as having one foot in the grave and forget how it is to be young in good things because of the grace of what has been... Let no one be slow to seek wisdom when he is young nor weary in the search of it when he has grown old. For no age is too early or too late for the health of the soul...even for you Wed 29 Sep 2010 17:22:29 GMT+1 Malkava http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=84#comment53 @51 NikThat is an interesting perspective, Nik. Make no mistake, I have no quarrel with children who choose to stay with their parents - provided they have a job and help contribute to the upkeep of their household in some way. If times are difficult, as is the case now, the very least the son or daughter can do is to improve their job prospects by learning new skills. If they do neither, it is a drain and burden on their parents. I was under the impression that children must look after their parents once they reach adulthood - not the other way around.As for having loose family connections - I believe you are mistaken. Just because you are far away from your family, does not mean you automatically lose your connection with them. Alternatively, staying in close proximity to your parents does not necessarily mean you are on good terms. If said children become "a mass of alcoholics, drug addicts, and big time losers who are even more incapable of producing any meaningful work", it can be assumed such characteristics were already present prior to any "early kicking". It just happens to be more noticeable since there is no one but yourself to speak for your actions. Wed 29 Sep 2010 16:35:55 GMT+1 cool_brush_work http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=82#comment52 Re #52Point disappearing over Your head: As I alluded, still struggling to learn 'Life' lessons.The Professor has my unadulterated sympathy. Wed 29 Sep 2010 16:19:24 GMT+1 Ellinas http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=80#comment51 #48 cool_brush_work--✄-- Some of my Teacher's used to write on my School Report: 'Must try harder & listen/concentrate on the topic' --✄--Since you well said it...why not doing itMy personal School report to you: '...Read again my #24 post i.e. Must try harder & listen/concentrate on my topic....' Wed 29 Sep 2010 14:55:48 GMT+1 Nik http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=79#comment50 """Parents who allow their children to languish at home are at fault as well. My father kicked us out of the nest as soon as we had turned 18, the legal age of an adult. It was a harsh lesson but a good one, and I am thankful for that. Independence and self-reliance I've learned are invaluable assets. Such indifference and lax attitudes are unbecoming for a generation that will need to take the mantle of their parents and grandparents."""I come from a country where sons and daughters, work or no work, are staying at home till... marriage (more often in their mid-30s for men, late 20s early 30s for women). I studied in a country where the exact opposite happens and quite often kids at 18 start paying normal rent rates for their childhood room. I work mostly in countries with a mixed case.There is no right and wrong in that apart the fact that useless, activity-less people are a loss. "Kids" that stay at home but work and pay taxes are not anything particularly negative. Kids are staying with parents since the... ice age down to our times. Only sailors, mercenaries and artists used to get out of the parental roof, the others remained under the same roof or closeby. From there on, we know that capitalism mostly prefers loose family connections for obvious reasons of market expansion (2 people in 1 house eventually consume less building space, cars, fridges, ovens, furniture etc. etc.Then if one says that indeed, the phenomenon of staying with parents creates a mass of cocooned undermotivated and lazy people another can indicate that the loose family connections and early kicking creates a mass of alcoholics, drug addicts, and big time losers who are even more incapable of producing any meaningful work than the cocooned mama's boys while on the other hand have more negative effects on society."""I personally spit on all the real skills you think the world is needing for instead of art history; the actress; the tourism executive skills etc. Remember all of you the times an actress made you laugh, cry, feel passion, think over life."""No no no... leave the poetry! You spit on all "real skills" for the simple fact of life that they do not count:The only usefull skill in life is "social connections". Wed 29 Sep 2010 13:04:21 GMT+1 Nik http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=77#comment49 """Thus, all the more puzzling how You can be drawn toward supporting the unsubstantiated, unverifed meandering notions & allegations of the 'greek'!?"""Stop calling me 'greek'. I am Greek. But I do not write here as a Greek, nor do I represent anyone else than my own opinion which as you saw in the last months is excerting serious critiscism on the state of Greece (which I openly call a joke-state) and the irresponsible "je m'en fou" behaviour of my compatriots, long known for their individualistic tedencies which not only created this sick situation but also aid the work of those that actively work to trap the country and take control of things in the area.As for accusing me of "unsubstanciated allegations", I am one of the commentators here that fully develops his opinion, based on points, figures, dates etc. something you are not willing to do, yet you like to accuse.Look, we have spent 1000s of lines speaking on the above. Cut the rest and stick to giving us your opinion. Do you have any? Wed 29 Sep 2010 12:40:01 GMT+1 Inbxl http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=76#comment48 Re: #46. "Merely 100,000? Why not 100,000,000? Or at least a million?"--Possibly because some workers are on strike at Brussels airport so many flights are cancelled. Also much of the Brussels public transport network is not working today because the bus drivers are striking so there may well be 900,000 other people wishing to strike but are unable to get into town. Wed 29 Sep 2010 11:48:05 GMT+1 cool_brush_work http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=74#comment47 Re #24It is at times acceptable to 'spit', though seldom so in polite company.When You feel the urge to spit on efforts/skills/talents of occupations drawn from any & every walk of life always try to recall & reflect that Your phlegm has no less than 5,000 bacterial organisms in each droplet: Randomly sharing it with others may necessitate the closure of the Art Gallery, Theatre etc. as it could cause illness & disease that endanger Public gatherings!Your account of the "..my 'art history' word-game gave him (Professor) a lesson.." I'm afraid actually revealed Your area of weakness: I'm fairly certain most of us reading that piece will have grasped the 'lesson' was the Professor showing great tolerance toward You as You metaphorically tried to 'spit' on his verified, qualified, experienced ability to determine the appropriate score for Your submitted work. The 'lessons' of life come with experience: By Your proud repetition of that 'art history' story as though You were the teacher in the incident Your inability to learn a valuable Life lesson is exposed.Some of my Teacher's used to write on my School Report: 'Must try harder & listen/concentrate on the topic' - - Ellinas, had the Professor the opportunity I figure that would have been the most worthwhile comment on Your display at that 'oral algebraic' moment. Wed 29 Sep 2010 10:37:05 GMT+1 cool_brush_work http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=73#comment46 Re #6followed up by #7You see DemocThreat if Your content at #6 (e.g. "..tourism executive..") is followed by the use of documented evidence at #7 (e.g. "..'executive' isn't a qualification, it's a term of rank in a company.. unemployed builder.. doctor..") even You can 'Substantiate' & 'Verify' the content of a comment.It's not so hard when You try: Thus, all the more puzzling how You can be drawn toward supporting the unsubstantiated, unverifed meandering notions & allegations of the 'greek'!?Awesome! Truly awesome! Wed 29 Sep 2010 10:06:04 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=71#comment45 "The European Trade Union Confederation (Etuc) says it hopes that about 100,000 people from some 30 countries will take part in the Brussels march, which is due to begin at 1100 GMT." (BBC)Merely 100,000?Why not 100,000,000?Or at least a million? Wed 29 Sep 2010 09:47:25 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=69#comment44 "Many governments across the 27-member bloc have been forced to impose punishing cuts in wages, pensions and employment to deal with spiralling debts. In Greece and the Republic of Ireland, unemployment figures are at their highest level in 10 years, while Spain's unemployment has doubled in just three years.In Britain, the government is planning to slash spending by up to 25%, while France has seen angry protests against a planned increase in the minimum retirement age." (BBC)Sure, strikes and protests are going to improve the situation. Wed 29 Sep 2010 09:42:47 GMT+1 Plazidus http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=68#comment43 ‘According to recent statistics 50% of young Frenchmen want to study psychology and become psychologists.’ [powermeercat]Can you quote a source? I’m busting a gut wanting this to be true... Wed 29 Sep 2010 09:41:07 GMT+1 Buzet23 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=66#comment42 Striking has almost always been a stupid thing to do, it is often about the union leaders flexing their muscles and exerting their control over their members. If the members don't strike to order the union leaders have lost their power so they traditionally threaten, cajole, promise the world etc and when the strike ends the members gain a pittance in salary but lose a lot of lost wages, the union dinosaur talks about the class struggle, and the company edge closer to bankruptcy or exporting the work overseas. What a success!In the case of general type strikes like today it is even less defensible, it is hitting companies that can't afford to lose a day's production as they are already struggling. Yet the lemming's and dinosaurs in the unions keep having to show their 'worker' power or rather union leaders power. The political leaders are elected by the population but the union leaders who are supposedly elected by their members can affect all our lives with no consequence. It is time the voters made their dislike of politicians very clear by voting for alternative parties, rather than by holding futile marches and demonstrations, yet time and time again the same pathetic old politicians are re-elected and the voters keep complaining and marching.PS. look at the latest Labour leader, he's already lined himself up with far lefties like Ken Livingston, and he's already promising the earth, whilst knowing full well his only objective is to get his snout in the public trough. Wed 29 Sep 2010 09:17:56 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=65#comment41 "A person from Senegal laughed when I mentioned "rich USA." The prices overseas are much cheaper for goods, foods, and services."It's amazing than that we don't see thousand of Americans emmigrating to Senegal.Nor citizens of EUSSR for that matter. Wed 29 Sep 2010 09:08:58 GMT+1 obilic3 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=63#comment40 Truly laughable.The growth in the public sector, the wages, pensions and the silly amount of people employed in some (not all) of the most useless jobs imaginable to man over the years has been paid and funded by some questionable growth within the EU, now that it is ended, they still want it all, even a pay freeze for these unions is too much to ask. The politicians would love nothing more to have the pitch-fork brigade blame the bankers solely for this mess, but who decided to run up debts during economic booms? Who were more than happy to see part of their treasury coffers fill with the revenues generated from the financial sector to be blown away on job creation in the public sector? Almost as if the various EU governments thought it would never suffer a recession, limitless growth for everyone, funded by anything, borrowing, property booms, debt repayments etc.Of course unions do not want job losses or changes in the public sector, they would lose their power considering how big it is within the EU. Did they protest over unemployment in the private sector, which accounts for most unemployment? Of course not, yet here they are trying to come across as a representative force for everyone, irrespective who’s at fault for the time being, they refuse to even take a wage freeze over any useful amount of time to help with the economic situation, no they cry, tax the rich they cry, leave us!. Peoples view of what the ordinary common working man is are totally warped these days.Some of the highest paid people in the EU, head these “fighting for the common people” unions who represent some of the highest paid public sector workers paid in part, on the tax collected off the average working man to the “rich disgusting immoral sub-human” banker. Let’s not even get started on the bulging welfare issue. Welfare simply should be there to support anyone in a time of need, or those who cannot or struggle to get by, disability obviously comes into this, with the excessive costs associated. However, why do so many people find it acceptable that it should be a way of life? (Don’t even dare talk about job losses now, we had a decade of booming economies and job creation, plenty in the public sector, hence pain for some now) You think bankers cause suffering, but at least we can tax a banker and put some of the “immoral money” to good use. Wed 29 Sep 2010 08:45:26 GMT+1 obilic3 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=61#comment39 Truly laughable.The growth in the public sector, the wages, pensions and the silly amount of people employed in some (not all) of the most useless jobs imaginable to man over the years has been paid and funded by some questionable growth within the EU, now that it is ended, they still want it all, even a pay freeze for these unions is too much to ask. The politicians would love nothing more to have the pitch-fork brigade blame the bankers solely for this mess, but who decided to run up debts during economic booms? Who were more than happy to see part of their treasury coffers fill with the revenues generated from the financial sector to be blown away on job creation in the public sector? Almost as if the various EU governments thought it would never suffer a recession, limitless growth for everyone, funded by anything, borrowing, property booms, debt repayments etc.Of course unions do not want job losses or changes in the public sector, they would lose their power considering how big it is within the EU. Did they protest over unemployment in the private sector, which accounts for most unemployment? Of course not, yet here they are trying to come across as a representative force for everyone, irrespective who’s at fault for the time being, they refuse to even take a wage freeze over any useful amount of time to help with the economic situation, no they cry, tax the rich they cry, leave us!. Peoples view of what the ordinary common working man is are totally warped these days.Some of the highest paid people in the EU, head these “fighting for the common people” unions who represent some of the highest paid public sector workers paid in part, on the tax collected off the average working man to the “rich disgusting immoral sub-human” banker. Let’s not even get started on the bulging welfare issue. Welfare simply should be there to support anyone in a time of need, or those who cannot or struggle to get by, disability obviously comes into this, with the excessive costs associated. However, why do so many people find it acceptable that it should be a way of life? (Don’t even dare talk about job losses now, we had a decade of booming economies and job creation, plenty in the public sector, hence pain for some now) You think bankers cause suffering, but at least we can tax a banker and put some of the “immoral money” to good use. Wed 29 Sep 2010 08:44:52 GMT+1 Martin Alejandro Carmona Selva http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=60#comment38 I'm in Spain, and NO, I'm NOT striking.Why? Do I think that the new measures are good? No way!It's funny how they think that I'm going to hire someone just because it's cheaper to fire them afterward. I'll hire someone if my productivity increases and I do need more workforce.Yes, being easy to fire may mean some temp jobs for a while but, far, far away from a permanent solution -and I know since I lived all that in Argentina-.So, why I'm not striking then?Well, for several reasons: 1.- I don't think it's the time for strikes. Spain needs anything but one Strike.2.- It won't change anything. The govt will keep with it's measures anyway, so, it'll just make the crisis country even worst. 3.- I really like my job and I'm reasonably happy with my company. So, why make them pay for something the politicians are doing?.So, while I do understand the reasons behind this strike, I don't support them. The only thing that I'll like to see is equal rights, for all those who wants to strike as well for those of us who want to work. -I'm working from home today to avoid issues with public transportation and all-. Wed 29 Sep 2010 08:32:22 GMT+1 DestroytheEU http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=58#comment37 People should protest until the EU is destroyed. Its unelected petty dictators are destroying the working and middle class in all the member states to favour its capitalists and multinationals. The rich keep getting richer while the poor keep getting poorer. The EU is just a sad experiment which should be terminated and never taken again. Let the working class rule. Wed 29 Sep 2010 08:26:56 GMT+1 stanilic http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=57#comment36 Just what we need at this time is the ritual knee-jerk Leftism of the morally, politically and intellectually bankrupt!None of this is going to provide a solution to our problems: it is just going to exacerbate them.Indeed I would argue it is just this sort of stupid demonstration that caused the politicians of Europe to think they had to alleviate demands from the streets for more and thus borrowed on the money markets the wealth needed to assuage people who had forgotten that it has to be earned. This is just how we got where we are and all these organisations who think that with just a little bit more of the same all will be well are are fooling themselves and their supporters.This is not an issue of Left versus Right but about whether we can put bread on the table, a table in the room and a room in a dwelling. We are into fundamental practicalities and how to address them. Sure, the pain should be spread equally but that is about as far as the moral argument goes.All I can see across most of Europe is a political class that is out of its depth, economies that forgot how to function long before the bust and a deep, deep hole of debt. The first task in my view is to stop being in denial and begin to see how we can restructure our economies. It is this which needs to be done from the street upwards. All that the big state and big business will do is look after their own interests: the role of the voter is to be clear that it is their interest that is promoted and not that of the corporate sector. Wed 29 Sep 2010 08:18:27 GMT+1 David http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=55#comment35 Also, when one is bored with life, nothing to do, "volunteering" seems an option, at least here in America (internships, food drives).Maybe in Europe, striking is a fun way of "volunteering service for their community." Wed 29 Sep 2010 08:17:46 GMT+1 David http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=53#comment34 ‘Gavin, do you seriously think that being an art historian or an actress in Spain, Greece or France qualifies you for a gainful employment? :-)))’ [powermeercat]These days Thespians are bound to find work in "reality programs" ...oh the pain, the pain. (for me) Wed 29 Sep 2010 08:15:15 GMT+1 David http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=52#comment33 I was proficient in Western Literature in college, (symbolism, writing papers, reading and writing and spelling-lost arts), but had to Major in Bus Admin/Econ emphasis for ..Work.:) Wed 29 Sep 2010 08:08:33 GMT+1 David http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=50#comment32 Yes, Ellinas,Remember when...people used to become artists, psychologists, teachers, historians, geographers, and other professions to inspire the world and themselves? When the Humanities meant something other than an MBA in Economics and Bus. Admin.Those were the days--the sixties? Wed 29 Sep 2010 08:06:01 GMT+1 David http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=49#comment31 Congratulations, Huaimek, You are very lucky to have had such good fortune. You must have been brought up very well.:) Wed 29 Sep 2010 08:01:58 GMT+1 David http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=47#comment30 Face it, its not the social welfare system, its China, globalization, competition and the end of an era of temporary grandeur for the USA and Europe. Both of our continents are going to have to cut spending unreal amts...military for us (and you) and maybe some social programs that have become "rights" under our previous systems ....unrealistically.Sadly.And People ARE going to have to measure in PPP from now on, to get real senses of quality of life. A person from Senegal laughed when I mentioned "rich USA." The prices overseas are much cheaper for goods, foods, and services.We've been duped by our own naivete. Wed 29 Sep 2010 07:59:51 GMT+1 DibbySpot http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=46#comment29 Quite how striking saves peoples jobs is a mystery - surely the widrawal of labour will make their own jobs less likely to remain.It is certainly true that the European structures in spain, Portugal and Italy have to change but also in France. The biggest issue is the lack of job creation in these countries which allied to the low retirement age and high minimum wages mean there is a preference for mechanisation rather than employment.As inthe UK if see real wages fall while at the same time increasing retirement agesthe amount of jobs that need to be created is massive and as a result it is questionable whether they ever will be. Wed 29 Sep 2010 07:53:45 GMT+1 Huaimek http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=44#comment28 #s 18 and 16 Malkava and ptsaI would have classified as a rich parent . My three children all left home at 18 when they left school . I believe it was the best thing that happened to them . My elder son wanted to go into stud management ; he went straight to a major stud farm to gain experience in order to be accepted on a course at Britain's National Stud . My daughter became a Nanny , with a family where mother had died , father shut himself away , the children only ate baked beans ; there had already been five nannies before her , but she stuck it out for longer than any , also cooking proper meals . My younger son went to America to study Marine Biology at the University of Santa Cruz CA. He worked throughout that time with injured Sea Lions , later as a barman at a restaurant .I believe however bright one's children it is good for them to have basic skills , to start at the bottom , work hard and gain promotion . Whatever misfortune may happen in life you are not afraid to start again at the bottom .Employers want to employ people with regular work experience . Students who have jobs all the time while they are studying at university , will almost certainly have employment as soon as they graduate . My elder so went to university at 24 , still part time working at a Kentucky stud farm , travelling horses to auction , expert at making them show off in the ring ; or flying with horses overseas for $2000 all expenses paid .My son followed with a masters degee in one year and now 41 , has his own business in CA .People expect too much nowadays , all on a plate . Where there's a will there's a way . I live in rural Thailand now , where nearly everyone is a peasant farmer or labourer , male or female . Young people go to Bangkok or Rayong to find work ; the wages are generally very low ; they team up to share a one room apartment with no furniture , all sleeping on the floor .Welfare in Europe is excessive , makes it necessary to have higher incomes to meet the higher cost of living and inflation . What is wrong with 65 as a retirement age ? The arguments about globalism are invalid ; it is just to try to justify the EU as a potential single federal state . I believe countries are still better off managing their own affairs , with their own individual currency and economy they can manage acording to their own resourses and abilities . Where I live people manage with very little , myself included , there are no dole queues , no national health , no pensions . People have to be content with what little they have ; all beit that their house is second hand corrugated iron with an earth or cement floor . " Love thy neighbour as thyself " still means something here ; those who are better off keep an eye for those who are less fortunate . Wed 29 Sep 2010 07:14:50 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=42#comment27 "Did a computer or a car remember of your name, your mother etc. and if so are willingly cry or laugh with you, for you?"In 20 years they will. Wed 29 Sep 2010 06:21:18 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=41#comment26 "Remember all of you the times an actress made you laugh, cry, feel passion, think over life."Histrions, have their role: after all we're all homo ludens. However, to be able to pay pay histrions, we should get a life first.Something most inhabitants of ClubMed don't seem to understand.[as their current economic predicament clearly demonstrates] Wed 29 Sep 2010 06:20:34 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=39#comment25 Re #23: " If it is truly different in Europe and hard work and effort is not rewarded, I would suggest forming a new system government or business model quickly."And hence a brain drain: unsolicited immigration of IT professionals, physicians, scientists, etc., from U.K. Germany, France, etc. to U.S.With Chancellor Merkel and president Sarkozy desperately trying to reverse that trend. Wed 29 Sep 2010 06:15:55 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=38#comment24 " I have known plenty of students who have worked full time while taking night classes, and participating in apprenticeship programs during the weekends. All of the aforementioned students initially had low-paying, low-skilled jobs. Due to their hard work and persistence, they now have excellent positions and high-income salaries. I think the correlation between effort and reward is quite clear."Unless you tolerate ca 20 million of undocumented illegal alienswho take those jobs from young Americans who wouldn't mind having them while acquiring skills which would give them a pretty good shot at gainful employment.[write Barack Hussein Obama, if you think it's federal governmet's obligation to protect U.S. borders.] Wed 29 Sep 2010 06:12:13 GMT+1 Ellinas http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=36#comment23 #4 powermeerkat ...#6 #7 democracythreat...#10 Buzet23I personally spit on all the real skills you think the world is needing for instead of art history; the actress; the tourism executive skills etc. Remember all of you the times an actress made you laugh, cry, feel passion, think over life. Did some science or technology ever gave you the same feelings as the beauty of love created by the artists and described from the art historians or played by actors and musicians? and so on...Objects and technology so essential today...are of no memory. Did a computer or a car remember of your name, your mother etc. and if so are willingly cry or laugh with you, for you? And if so do they have the free will on doing that as you do as humans? Technology is of no history unless we train some art historians to do that for us.Once, at my university oral exam (linear Algebra), the professor gave me 18 to 30 as my final grade. disappointed by that, told him that i deserved more and he answered me back that he could go up to 19 as i was some kind of a nice guy to his point of view. I told him in return that i wanted more only if i deserved it but from his point of view 18 and 19 was quite the same grade....so i replied that if so, then, also 19 and 20 are quite the same grades and keep going that way 29 and 30 are quite the same so i do finally deserved the max. grade. Now! Art history attempt to answer in historically specific ways, questions such as: What are key features of this style? What meaning did this object convey?, How does it function visually?, Did the artist meet their goals well?, What symbols are involved?, and Does it function discursively?...and so on...For the story i took 19 but my "art history" word game, gave him a lesson something that my linear Algebra cold notions couldn't do that to him because linear Algebra contain no memory i.e. no history as well as no art.So! At that point, i do feel, make a simple demonstration of what are art history; actress; and tourism executive skills in one single recipe...so to find out who you were or were are you going...You take a crisis...nearly 200 people running in a strange line... an Art historian... some acting... a Tourism "executive"...Danube...and the Hewitt's ULYSSES GAZE at 8:30 - by Theo Angelopoulos...otherwise you take an Economic crisis...nearly 200 people waiting in a strange line... an Art historian... some acting... a Tourism "executive"...the Hewitt's eyesight at 8:30...the lake of my Greek region...and you obtain...The Weeping Meadow - by Theo Angelopoulos Wed 29 Sep 2010 06:03:41 GMT+1 Malkava http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=34#comment22 @21 ptsa"You do know that costs money, right?"Not always. It is true, I have never been to Europe, but I would at least assume the average European citizen will have access to a library - one that I would hope provides educational textbooks for ones perusal. Internships do not cost money either, granted you usually do not make any money either, but it gives you the experience and more importantly an opportunity to put your foot in the door. Shall I consider that argument null and void?"I used the word "OR" didn't I? So I was right."I never said I had always lived in America. I only provided information regarding my present living situation. Again, you assume incorrectly.Also, regardless of what you (or others) might think, I do not consider Europe to have financially reached 'rock bottom'. If you would like a reference to what I would consider rock bottom, please refer to Zimbabwe."If after spending a lot of time and effort and money on my higher education and various other apprenticeships as you call them, I had to leave it all behind to become a waiter (lots of demand) then why bother educating myself."That seems oddly contradictory to what you had previously stated, don't you think? Here is the quote if you have forgotten: "...there is not much you can do. Add to that unemployement (ie. no jobs, no matter how much time you have free so that you look for one) and the outcome is not that good."If what you say is true, and highly skilled work is non-existent, and that low-skilled jobs are in such abundance, why is it that there is any such existence of a "lost generation" as quoted by the article? By your account, it sounds as if there are plenty of jobs to be had, just none that people are willing to take. Is this the case? Pardon me if I cast doubt on your assertion. As to the comment regarding why you should bother educating yourself --truly? If you must ask such a question then it most assuredly is a lost cause."But how long can you do that for? If you go down that road you miss the professional experience you can get at other jobs while you are young and fresh out of college that will help you build a career and you will be stuck there for the rest of your life."Now, what exactly is stopping you from educating yourself while holding down a job? I have known plenty of students who have worked full time while taking night classes, and participating in apprenticeship programs during the weekends. All of the aforementioned students initially had low-paying, low-skilled jobs. Due to their hard work and persistence, they now have excellent positions and high-income salaries. I think the correlation between effort and reward is quite clear.I am not sure what the business model is like in Europe, but the general rule of thumb is: High demand for skilled workers = Higher salary. Let me explain. If there are not enough qualified individuals to keep a business running, that business will do what it takes to retain their current workforce - including an increase in pay. This in turn will attract other qualified individuals to take positions in the company as well."There is nothing defeatist about seeing that SALARY(IES)-NECESSARY EXPENSES=NEGATIVE NUMBER. "I find it extremely hard to believe that with room mates/family and a full-time job with only the bare necessities, you will find yourself with a negative income. Use your common sense. If you find that you cannot afford to live in a particular area, you will need to move to another place where you can. The same applies for "necessary expenses".Quite honestly, I do not understand what point you are trying to make. You say that living in parts of Europe (particularly in the city) is expensive - no argument from me. You at first say unemployment is rampant, in your first post (which is why young people don't bother looking for jobs apparently). In your next post you turn around and say there are plenty of high-demand jobs, just not the ones people want. You go on to conclude that if you take these jobs, there is the possibility that you will be stuck in this position for the rest of your life. I'll agree with you...to a point. In my opinion, if they choose to spend the rest of their life as a 'waiter', that is solely based on their decision to remain so.On another note, of course the cost of living in the U.S. is cheaper than in Europe. You said it yourself, you cannot compare between the two and assume they are the same. In the U.S. large-scale government social programs are not the norm, hence the taxes are not the same. You will generally pay for insurance, transportation and other expenses on an individual basis. I would suggest taking these factors into consideration, as well.Yes, I do base my experiences on what I have learned in the U.S. - it is because that is what has worked for me. If it is truly different in Europe and hard work and effort is not rewarded, I would suggest forming a new system government or business model quickly. Wed 29 Sep 2010 05:37:19 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=33#comment21 "It is easy for the philistine element to scoff at non-jobs. If, however, we direct a very searching light at many tens of jobs and ask if they are really, truly necessary we are quite likely to find they aren’t. "Forget art historians and actresses.According to recent statistics 50% of young Frenchmen want to study psychology and become psychologists.Hopefully finding gainful employment (unlike say, IT professionals, chemists, mechanical engineers,etc.) advising other non-philistines how to cope with a long term unemployment. Wed 29 Sep 2010 05:18:48 GMT+1 ptsa http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=31#comment20 @18 Malkava "what else would they be doing, if not actively improving their skill sets to acquire a job that is in demand?"You do know that costs money, right?"I think you have already made presumptions regarding my age and have chosen to completely ignore the point I was trying to make in my post. Instead, you have chosen to shore up a defensive attitude in an attempt to excuse the behaviors of these unambitious youth. If you truly must know, I am 25 years old, not exactly as you say "a couple of generations" before you. I'm afraid your assumption that I have a comfortable job because of the time I was born is inaccurate and I would say invalidates the bulk of your argument.As to your other area of contention, I currently live in the U.S. specifically in the D.C. area. I have room mates, we rent a flat and we split the bills so the cost isn't so outrageous. Therefore, we have money to save and spend as we please (what a new and exciting concept)."I used the word "OR" didn't I? So I was right.I just know how things work in some European countries so it is not possible to do what you say, regardless of your age which I am sorry I misjudged you on.I took a defensive stance because I was in the situation you talked about, living with my parents (albeit contributing financially) because I could never make ends meet while I was living in my country, even if I had a job which was considered a good job as well and worked 12 hrs a day sometimes 7 days a week. We are not all majors of "Art History" or "Tourism Executives", we have real skills for which there is no demand. If after spending a lot of time and effort and money on my higher education and various other apprenticeships as you call them, I had to leave it all behind to become a waiter (lots of demand) then why bother educating myself. And by the way I am not talking low about waiters, back home they made more money than me and I have lots of friends that had to do that in order to make ends meet. But how long can you do that for? If you go down that road you miss the professional experience you can get at other jobs while you are young and fresh out of college that will help you build a career and you will be stuck there for the rest of your life. Maybe it is a different mentality in Europe but most parents that managed to make a career for themselves here want their children to achieve at least that, if not more.Also, I just moved to the US, an internal transfer with my company, so I have experienced how things work on both sides of the Atlantic. Until you get the chance to do the same, do not assume that what works here (in the US) will work everywhere. Here I earn enough to be able to support myself by doing the exact same job as back home, only for 5x the pay and cost of living (maybe you can exclude rent because I am in CA) is so much lower in the US. I am also around your age by the way and have been through many of the things you describe, trying to expand my field of education and be flexible and adaptable to anything I can find for work.There is nothing defeatist about seeing that SALARY(IES)-NECESSARY EXPENSES=NEGATIVE NUMBER. Sometimes, even living with flatmates cannot work, it is math it is not just in our heads. Have you met many young people that would rather live with their parents than share an apartment with other "cool" people their age??? Wed 29 Sep 2010 02:00:59 GMT+1 MarcusAureliusII http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=30#comment19 Hey Europe, enjoy the music.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXg6UB9Qk0o Wed 29 Sep 2010 01:10:55 GMT+1 neonomad http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=28#comment18 Apparently In Denmark first they were accused of criminality and them deported using an administrative procedure by the Police, all done without being brought to a court of law or having the possibility of defending themselves individually from the accusations. Shameful at so many levels.http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article1033647.ecehttp://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article1030464.ecehttp://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article1011653.ecehttp://jp.dk/uknews/article2143126.ecehttp://cphpost.dk/news/137-eu-news/49638-expelled-romani-to-sue-state-.html Wed 29 Sep 2010 00:55:22 GMT+1 Malkava http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=26#comment17 @16 ptsa"You know, this is not about brats of rich parents that stay at home all day and do nothing and spend their parents' money."I have not mentioned anything relating to the wealth of a family as an indication for the growing apathy of this lost generation. Enlighten me please, these youth have "given up searching for work" - what else would they be doing, if not actively improving their skill sets to acquire a job that is in demand?"I don't know how old you are or where you're from, but you sound like you are either a couple of generations before me when life was good and getting a job was feasible or you do not live in a place that has financially reached rock bottom."I think you have already made presumptions regarding my age and have chosen to completely ignore the point I was trying to make in my post. Instead, you have chosen to shore up a defensive attitude in an attempt to excuse the behaviors of these unambitious youth. If you truly must know, I am 25 years old, not exactly as you say "a couple of generations" before you. I'm afraid your assumption that I have a comfortable job because of the time I was born is inaccurate and I would say invalidates the bulk of your argument.As to your other area of contention, I currently live in the U.S. specifically in the D.C. area. I have room mates, we rent a flat and we split the bills so the cost isn't so outrageous. Therefore, we have money to save and spend as we please (what a new and exciting concept)."In an environment where cost of living goes up and salaries stay the same or even drop, there is not much you can do."I disagree. Again, it is this defeatist attitude that I simply do not understand. Shall I explain what one does in such a situation? All you need do is refer to my first post, which you had decided to pointedly ignore.You determine which jobs are in demand and the skill sets you will need to compete for such jobs. Please do not make the excuse that there are no jobs - there are always jobs that are in high demand. Just because someone made the conscious decision to major in "art history" does not mean there are no jobs available. From there, you teach yourself these skills either through reading and doing it yourself, or through an apprenticeship program. I had the opportunity for both, and I can vouch that this certainly had an impact on expanding my job prospects.Competition should be anticipated and welcomed. It allows you to further improve yourself and helps to drive your ambition.Any person, young or otherwise can improve their situation. It's a matter of whether they possess the will to do so. Wed 29 Sep 2010 00:31:07 GMT+1 Curt Carpenter http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=25#comment16 If the people believe that the pain of rewriting the social contract has been shared equally by all, then they will emerge the stronger for it. And to my way of thinking, -that- is the challenge facing European governments. I continue to admire their political courage in getting on with the job. Tue 28 Sep 2010 23:53:48 GMT+1 ptsa http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=23#comment15 13. At 8:43pm on 28 Sep 2010, Malkava wrote:With all that free time on their hands, why not do something conducive to finding a job? It appears obvious that art historians, actresses and tourist executives are not very much sought after. Seems like an opportune time to learn and gain new skills that are in demand. Time is money, yes? These youth should view it as a privilege to be given such an opportunity.Parents who allow their children to languish at home are at fault as well. My father kicked us out of the nest as soon as we had turned 18, the legal age of an adult. It was a harsh lesson but a good one, and I am thankful for that. Independence and self-reliance I've learned are invaluable assets. Such indifference and lax attitudes are unbecoming for a generation that will need to take the mantle of their parents and grandparents. -------------------You know, this is not about brats of rich parents that stay at home all day and do nothing and spend their parents' money.Before moving to the US I worked in Greece in a big multinational company (I worked really hard to get this job and I was not sitting on my bum until someone found it for me). My salary could barely cover my expenses while I lived with my parents (and paid my share of grocery shopping, bills etc). Rent alone would be more than 1/2 of my salary if someone had "kicked me out when I was 18". And believe me, the rest (food, bills etc) run over 400EUROS in Athens.I don't know how old you are or where you're from, but you sound like you are either a couple of generations before me when life was good and getting a job was feasible or you do not live in a place that has financially reached rock bottom. Some decades ago my parents started their lives at the age of 18, they had jobs that could easily help them with that and even managed to put some money aside and slowly build their "wealth". They even agree that today this is just not possible. In an environment where cost of living goes up and salaries stay the same or even drop, there is not much you can do. Add to that unemployement (ie. no jobs, no matter how much time you have free so that you look for one) and the outcome is not that good. People think of Italy, Spain or Greece and they think that it is cheap to live there. Try living in one of those countries with 1/4 of the salary you get now. Tue 28 Sep 2010 21:28:12 GMT+1 David http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=22#comment14 I have flipped burgers and guess what they do not flip...they turn over and u try not to cook the heck out of them (at a fast food restaurant).Everyone in the USA have flipped burgers while being young workers for the last how many years? ...people use this fun action as a second job, even.When I worked during college I got a job at Macy's (scuze me for PR) and felt like I'd been promoted. But, its just the difference between working in 90 degrees F. or 68 degrees F.Money wise its now a career choice ...omg yes, thank you, God, thank you, God for my job...I just realized. :) Tue 28 Sep 2010 20:53:09 GMT+1 DiscoStu_d http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=20#comment13 "I was outside an unemployment benefit office in Madrid. It opened at 9.00 am but by 8.30 nearly 200 people were waiting in line"Spaniards out of bed before 10:00 a.m? Those poor people must be nervous about things. Tue 28 Sep 2010 19:50:08 GMT+1 Malkava http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=19#comment12 "It is also the case that a significant number of young people have given up searching for work. They are called ninis; neither in work nor in study. They live off their parents and are referred to as a lost generation."With all that free time on their hands, why not do something conducive to finding a job? It appears obvious that art historians, actresses and tourist executives are not very much sought after. Seems like an opportune time to learn and gain new skills that are in demand. Time is money, yes? These youth should view it as a privilege to be given such an opportunity.Parents who allow their children to languish at home are at fault as well. My father kicked us out of the nest as soon as we had turned 18, the legal age of an adult. It was a harsh lesson but a good one, and I am thankful for that. Independence and self-reliance I've learned are invaluable assets. Such indifference and lax attitudes are unbecoming for a generation that will need to take the mantle of their parents and grandparents. Tue 28 Sep 2010 19:43:14 GMT+1 threnodio_II http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=17#comment11 Spare a thought for short order cooks and supermarket checkout people. Once upon a time, it used to be a nice little earner but these days, it seems, art history students and tourism executives are moving in to corner the market. Is there is no justice?Actresses don't count, by the way. Thespians are never unemployed, only resting. Journalists, on the other hand .... Tue 28 Sep 2010 19:35:37 GMT+1 Plazidus http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=15#comment10 ‘Gavin, do you seriously think that being an art historian or an actress in Spain, Greece or France qualifies you for a gainful employment? :-)))’ [powermeercat]They most certainly do. Culture is a major foreign-exchange earner since it is a major component of the tourist experience. As for the acting profession, they are extremely kindly looked upon in France: so long as you work a month or two, Social Security will maintain that income level for the remaining 10 months. It is easy for the philistine element to scoff at non-jobs. If, however, we direct a very searching light at many tens of jobs and ask if they are really, truly necessary we are quite likely to find they aren’t. The exercise might also change a few embedded ideas about rates of pay for particular jobs. Tue 28 Sep 2010 19:29:10 GMT+1 Buzet23 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=14#comment9 #6. At 5:38pm on 28 Sep 2010, democracythreat,,I quite agree, it sounds just like the legal qualifications, don't you agree.PS. How do YOU flip burgers by the way?To Gavin Hewitt and all the others,'John Monks, General Secretary of the European Trade Union Confederation said "it's a fight to protect social Europe".'Sorry he got that wrong, he meant Socialist Europe where the unions and the party are king and the peasants jump to order. It is a time for a Social Europe but constant strikes only benefit the dinosaurs running the unions whilst the serfs get poorer. Tue 28 Sep 2010 19:11:51 GMT+1 Fwd079 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=12#comment8 Europe is holding protests, wonder when will UK start to follow? Tue 28 Sep 2010 17:45:24 GMT+1 Beat Kappeler http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=11#comment7 I witnessed in swiss factories, working for exports, youngsters of 22 years, welding complicate axes, doing cables etc. The southern countries of Europe suffer (as the US too) from lacking mecanical, informatical and linguistic capabilities and cannot export nor supplant imports. so they get poorer. Tue 28 Sep 2010 17:30:45 GMT+1 democracythreat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=9#comment6 In all serious, how can one be an unemployed "tourism executive"?I mean, how? "Executive" isn't a qualification, it's a term of rank within a company. And thus, if you are unemployed you can't be an "executive".Unemployed bricklayer, sure. Unemployed doctor, certainly. Unemployed lawyer, it happens. Unemployed plumber, a great sadness.But an unemployed ACTRESS???? An unemployed TOURISM EXECUTIVE??? An unemployed ART HISTORIAN???Those are not professions. They're admissions of not wanting to work for a living, and of not studying hard at school.This issue was dealt with in our swiss commuter's paper yesterday morning. Anyone who catches the tube will know the style of rag I mean. They have the weather, a murder story, cartoons, and pictures of pretty young girls hanging it out whilst professing extreme modesty. I like the cartoons, particularly Calvin and Hobbes.Well, there is one cartoon called "Sherman", which involves various fish. Recently Sherman, who is a likable but dim blue shark, has been making a movie. Yesterday Sherman met his friend, a lobster, and they were discussing the project. The lobster, Hawthorn, asked sherman why he was not making the movie anymore. Sherman protested that he was, and that he had taken on the role of costume designer, script writer and scenery consultant, as well as being the film's director. Hawthorn said that was fantastic.Then he orders chicken nuggets and a coke. Sherman writes down the order and asks him if he wants fries with that. Tue 28 Sep 2010 16:51:01 GMT+1 democracythreat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=7#comment5 hewitt writes:"What struck me was how well-qualified many of them were. There was the young man studying art history; the actress; the tourism executive."Dear god! Stop! I'm laughing so hard I'm choking on my dinner.Seriously, I don't think I've ever be quite so amused by this blog. Hewitt is either extremely clever, or he missed his proper calling as a short plank in an crooked building.Note that Hewitt does not say these folks are CLEVER. He says they are "well qualified". Art history. Acting. Tourism "executive".These are qualifications which entitle a person to either flip burgers, or live a life of grand hurrah on daddy's cheque book.This blog is awesome. It's just awesome. Tue 28 Sep 2010 16:38:16 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=6#comment4 "An earlier version of this post contained projections on eurozone growth, which have been removed at the request of the consultancy which provided them."Because they projected a negative growth for countries whose economies were supposed to grow like that of Ireland?Or, to the contrary: becaue they projected growth for countries whose economies are likely to actually shrink in 2011? Tue 28 Sep 2010 16:32:52 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=4#comment3 "What struck me was how well-qualified many of them were. There was the young man studying art history; the actress; the tourism executive."Gavin, do you seriously think that being an art historian or an actress in Spain, Greece or France qualifies you for a gainful employment? :-))) Tue 28 Sep 2010 16:24:58 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=3#comment2 What do you mean by "Europe prepares"?I thought 'Europe', whatever it stands for these days, has been protesting for months; from Greece to Spain and France and back again?To no avail?[]Although I understand that in some cultures its much nicer to strike and protest ad nauseam than to actually work] Tue 28 Sep 2010 16:20:52 GMT+1 Chris http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=1#comment1 "If that is the case, then this is a struggle for the future of Europe. Many argue that Europe will only be able to compete effectively in the global economy when it weakens its generous system of welfare"Can you please try and get some more information out the "many" what they mean by "weaken its generous system of welfare", do they mean have something like the US 15% of its population poor? Have something like Indias casts? Or go communist like China?I counter-argue that the welware is not the problem, the problem is the unfair distribution of wealth that Europe has. Europe should tax its rich elites at 60-70% to pay for its debts! Germany for example could find the 80bl Euros it needs over the next 4 years simple by taxing the top 4% of its citizen at 70%. So no, the welfare system does not reduce efficiency. Also it is false to claim that cheaper labour is more efficient, are they telling me that a street cleaner in India with a broom is more efficient that a street cleaner in UK riding an motor driven street vacuum cleaner?So please please please, don't confuse cheaper with efficient and if you hear it from "many" inform them that they are wrong, or ask them to come clean about what they mean!Thank you! Tue 28 Sep 2010 16:20:11 GMT+1 BluesBerry http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/09/europe_prepares_to_protest.html?page=0#comment0 Ignacio Fernandez Toxo, leader of the CCOO Union: "Above all else the strike is about the prevention of new changes that affect the nucleus of the social protection systems". John Monks, General Secretary of the European Trade Union Confederation: "It's a fight to protect social Europe".Many argue that Europe will only be able to compete effectively with the weakening of its generous system of welfare.Surely the average working slog would not say this; so, who is saying this? The elite, the over-stressed Governments, the investment bankers?There should be scepticism about the strike because Governments are thinking inside the box, refusing to climb out, not daring to peak over the container-top. People need and want to feel safe & secure. Life is hard enough!There is a need for CHANGE, daring change, creative change. I believe that what is needed is the implementation (across the EU) of a tax on all foreign exchange transactions. Even with the application of a relatively moderate percentage (like 0.5%), the estimatation of taxes to be raised is in the BILLIONS.What financial institutions will get hit with the tax? The financial institutions that speculated, took risks, bet against our sovereign countries, and thereby almost caused a total financial meltdown. That’s the beauty of this type of tax that I propose. It will do very little to bother the working slog or the regular, mom & pop financial institutions. How many foreign transactions do you make in a year?It will hit exactly where we should want it to hit: the big boys who deserve the impact, deserve to finance social programs that appear to be in jeopardy. Why should the European way of life be placed in jeopardy? Why is there no money for job creation? For retirement at the normal age? What did the average person do that s/he is being punished? The news for growth and jobs is poor. So, why are Governments hesitant to tax the financial institutions that caused this mess? Do governments think that these rich investment banks cannot afford a little, moderate tax? Are our governments that beholden, that afraid of the huge investment banks?It’s not a choice between spending cuts and tax increases on the people; it’s a choice between spending cuts and tax on the financial institutuions that caused this mess.The really significant point is this: a little moderate tax on all foreign exchange transactions will not cause hardship to the financial institutions, but even a little moderate tax increase on the average person will cause hardship to the working person or the person looking for work. Great question: What will be the longer-term judgement of a lost generation? Better question: Why are we chosing to lose them? What will be the political fall-out of the years of austerity? Actually, I believe it will lead to social unrest.It doesn’t have to be this way, but whatever measures are taken must be taken across the EU so that it's not that easy for investment banks to jump ship, and if they do jump ship, there should be an exit tax – get them coming, staying and going. Won’t this hurt cities like London, a hub for foreign exchange transactions? What are you thinking, that investment banks – whether headquarted in Manila or Tuktoyaktuk will elect not to engage in foreign transactions with Britain, with Germany, with France, with all of Europe? Do you think they will limit themselves to transactions with the United States of America where regulations are so lax and the mere suggestion of a foreign exchange tax would cause investment banks to convulse?On Wednesday, I would rather see Brussels release a uniform foreign exchange tax across the EU. Tue 28 Sep 2010 15:59:36 GMT+1