Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html en-gb 30 Wed 29 Jul 2015 03:30:32 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html McJakome http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=97#comment38 38. At 2:48pm on 24 Sep 2010, RHCracker wrote:16. At 9:20pm on 22 Sep 2010, JMM wrote:"I know its hard for you to do,but go ahead and admit you voted for anincompetent president,and color has nothing to do with it."Sorry to disappoint you but I didn't vote for President Obama, I thought he was too inexperienced and likely to be eaten alive by the GOP/FOX machine [pats self on back for accurate prediction].Of course the idea of a brainless bimbo a heartbeat [of a very old man] away from the presidency meant I couldn't vote for McCain either, though I might have if he had chosen a reasonable running mate. I voted for the Green candidate.I agree with you that reverse racism is as bad as racism, I also agree that "playing the race card" and extreme political correctness are bad for the country.So, when I see racism [as in some Tea Party signs, slogans or statements] I see it for what it is. When I see a pastor using race to promote himself [no names but there are three I have in mind] or his leadership in ways that undermine democracy, then I oppose that too. Sun 03 Oct 2010 00:30:12 GMT+1 RHCracker http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=94#comment37 16. At 9:20pm on 22 Sep 2010, JMM wrote:So how are they going to spin it? Since there is a {black] Democrat in the White House, any charge of treason must be trueThere you go,painting everyone who criticizes Obama to be a racist,Is he ever going to own this economy,or is it easier to blame the previous administration.CHECK THE SPENDING FACTS,he has spent way past the levels of W.I know its hard for you to do,but go ahead and admit you voted for anincompetent president,and color has nothing to do with it. Fri 24 Sep 2010 13:48:10 GMT+1 AndreaNY http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=92#comment36 36. jr4412:"fwiw, I do know I'm better (as in more principled, more ethical) than the Dick Cheney's, George Bush's (both) and "Scooter" Libby's of this world. no, really!!"******************Of course you are. All liberals are better than Bush. They know more than Bush. They will only elect people who support their view of Bush.In other words, Bush now defines the new American liberal. Fri 24 Sep 2010 03:07:04 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=89#comment35 CuriousAmerican #35."..to be a liberal "I know I'm better than you".."fwiw, I do know I'm better (as in more principled, more ethical) than the Dick Cheney's, George Bush's (both) and "Scooter" Libby's of this world. no, really!! Thu 23 Sep 2010 22:01:42 GMT+1 CuriousAmerican http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=87#comment34 30. At 2:29pm on 23 Sep 2010, SaintDominick wrote:Ref 28, AndreaGovernment regulation has been a four letter in GOP parlance since the Reagan era......Incidentally, I support greater oversight of ALL government departments and agencies...------------------------------------------------------You are either not to bright or are missing the point because you don't like the "other guys"...It's an issue of power...Who should have it...the people, the states or DC?.......Its clear to all thinking and rational adults that power in the hands of the DC politicians is a disaster...no matter the party...If YOU want to give most of YOUR money and freedoms away to some nameless, faceless, buerocrat on the otherside of the country that has NO accountablity...that is YOUR failure....STOP forcing your goofy and frankly dumb utopian society on us against our will.....You liberals are little power mad busy bodies...just leave us alone already...Your ex-president Cater expressed recently so clearly what it means to be a liberal "I know I'm better than you"....its so perfectly expresses the core of liberalism... Thu 23 Sep 2010 21:27:06 GMT+1 AndreaNY http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=84#comment33 29. powermeerkat:"We can absorb a terrorist attack."*************I wonder whether he's considered what another hit to our economy would be like right now. Actually, I wonder if he noticed the first time. The economy may not have been something he was looking at then. Thu 23 Sep 2010 21:09:47 GMT+1 colonelartist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=82#comment32 When Bush started the war in Afghanistan it was payback for the Taliban having hosted Al Qaeda and refusing to stop. ------------------------------------------------------------------------Whether you played rats or cats, the fact is americans started this war..Bush had a unanimous support both from the people and his opponent political leaders...Thats how you should remember those days, because bush does..and so do the political leaders thats why they would never even dare to call it bush's war...And neither should you... Thu 23 Sep 2010 16:20:42 GMT+1 Scott0962 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=79#comment31 re. #23. At 9:35pm on 22 Sep 2010, colonelartist wrote:"When you started war in afghanistan, it was for afghanistan and afghani people, somehow along the way, the war has become all about america and americans..."When Bush started the war in Afghanistan it was payback for the Taliban having hosted Al Qaeda and refusing to stop. Few if any Americans gave a rat's you-know-what about Afghanistan or the people there, they wanted payback for 9/11. We're there now because the Bush administration didn't have any clear goals about how to end the conflict if the Taliban continued to fight after they were driven from power--something that should have been foreseen given their history. Most Americans still don't give a hoot about what happens to Afghanistan or it's people after we leave as long as the country doesn't become a base for launching more terrorist attacks on the USA. Thu 23 Sep 2010 15:21:59 GMT+1 colonelartist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=76#comment30 "We can absorb a terrorist attack. We'll do everything we can to prevent it, but even a 9/11, even the biggest attack ever . . . we absorbed it and we are stronger" -------------------------------------------------------------------------There is a fine line between absorbing a thing and reacting to it to bounce it either back or somewhere else...usa didnt absorb it, it reacted by attacking on afghanistan in a knee jerk way, quickly making up some excuses and a war plan that was so poor that even vedonrs started to see a great potential as generals in usa military. usa is neither a sponge nor is it reflective, nor does it ever own a blame..these are the qualitities of one who absorbs.. Thu 23 Sep 2010 14:13:25 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=74#comment29 Ref 28, AndreaGovernment regulation has been a four letter in GOP parlance since the Reagan era.What Sen McCain proposed - and is being proposed again - is a separate congressional vote on every Fannie Mae Freddie Mac regulation of more than $100 million. Dems rejected it because it would force businesses to figure out a new, dual-track, regulatory process.The most interesting facet of this issue - from a political perspective - is that the champions of de-regulation propose greater government oversight and control when the target is a public entity, and the alleged enemies of big business are resisting because the proposed changes would adversely affect the business community!Incidentally, I support greater oversight of ALL government departments and agencies... Thu 23 Sep 2010 13:29:07 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=71#comment28 "We can absorb a terrorist attack. We'll do everything we can to prevent it, but even a 9/11, even the biggest attack ever . . . we absorbed it and we are stronger" - calimed pres. Ob ama, according to Bob Woodward's book precised by WP.Here's wondering whether Mr. Obama considered a direct hit at his White House, including its 2nd floor. Thu 23 Sep 2010 12:53:05 GMT+1 AndreaNY http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=69#comment27 27. Fluidly Unsure:"Didn't GWB try to regulate Fannie Mae, but was blocked by the politicians that recieved the most: Barack Obama, John Kerry, Chris Dodd?"*****************The response to Bush's trying to tighten regulation of Fannie and Freddie was Democrats' insistence that there was no problem with them. No surprise, it was referred to as a "political lynching". Democrats have erased the Community Reinvestment Act from memory. The "last 8 years" is what caused all our problems, according to them. Thu 23 Sep 2010 10:04:23 GMT+1 Fluidly Unsure http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=66#comment26 #20 I thought it was Clinton that regulated banks forcing them to offer loans they knew couldn't be afforded and to enter underdeveloped markets where those loans would be popular. Although I think some of it was an extension of previous legislation from the Carter era.Didn't GWB try to regulate Fannie Mae, but was blocked by the politicians that recieved the most: Barack Obama, John Kerry, Chris Dodd?BTW; the only reason I would vote on the Republican ticket this year is that Ron Paul might be running on in. Thu 23 Sep 2010 09:16:28 GMT+1 McJakome http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=64#comment25 I think there is a technical problem. Several were rejected with weird auto message. then a newly refreshed browser was accepted and I note that 4 messages from me are in the line up. "You already said that in a previous comment" was also shown for this particular comment. Wed 22 Sep 2010 20:39:31 GMT+1 McJakome http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=61#comment24 I think there is a technical problem. Several were rejected with weird auto message. then a newly refreshed browser was accepted and I note that 4 messages from me are in the line up. Wed 22 Sep 2010 20:38:26 GMT+1 McJakome http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=58#comment23 I think there is a technical problem. Several were rejected with weird auto message. then a newly refreshed browser was accepted and I note that 4 messages from mw are in the line up. Wed 22 Sep 2010 20:38:14 GMT+1 colonelartist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=56#comment22 When you started war in afghanistan, it was for afghanistan and afghani people, somehow along the way, the war has become all about america and americans... Wed 22 Sep 2010 20:35:49 GMT+1 McJakome http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=53#comment21 RE #7. MAII once again tells the uncomfortable truth uncomfortably.I hope that, like myself, a majority of voters remember who put the hole in their pocketbooks. It was little Georgy "W" who did it with his little hatchet[men], Cheney, Rumsefeld, etc. Unlike Washington, Georgie could, indeed, tell a lie, even hundreds of lies.deregulating the greedy banks and Wall Street Scumno-bid contracts, loot for friends and contributersuse private companies' mercenaries instead of soldiers [more loot for friends and contributers]illegal and unjustified war in Iraq [more loot.......]and so on.Any citizens who can bring themselves to vote for national GOP candidates after that really need their heads examined. Wed 22 Sep 2010 20:35:39 GMT+1 McJakome http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=51#comment20 Mr. Mardell,There is a problem with the auto-censor. It has rejected 3 comments because it believes I have already made the same comment previousely when I have not. I should like to recommend that the techs investigate. Wed 22 Sep 2010 20:35:02 GMT+1 McJakome http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=48#comment19 RE #7. MAII once again tells the uncomfortable truth uncomfortably.I hope that, like myself, a majority of voters remember who put the hole in their pocketbooks. It was little Georgy "W" who did it with his little hatchet[men], Cheney, Rumsefeld, etc. Unlike Washington, Georgie could, indeed, tell a lie, even hundreds of lies.deregulating the greedy banks and Wall Street Scumno-bid contracts, loot for friends and contributersuse private companies' mercenaries instead of soldiers [more loot for friends and contributers]illegal and unjustified war in Iraq [more loot.......]and so on.Any citizens who can bring themselves to vote for national GOP candidates after that really need their heads examined. Wed 22 Sep 2010 20:33:01 GMT+1 McJakome http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=46#comment18 7. At 4:21pm on 22 Sep 2010, MarcusAureliusII wrote:"Six weeks from today ... It's an old saying that Americans vote their pocketbooks and right now many of them feel like theirs has a hole in the bottom of it."MAII once again tells the uncomfortable truth uncomfortably.I hope that, like myself, a majority of voters remember who put the hole in their pocketbooks. It was little Georgy "W" who did it with his little hatchet[men], Cheney, Rumsefeld, etc. Unlike Washington, Georgie could, indeed, tell a lie, even hundreds of lies.deregulating the greedy banks and Wall Street Scumno-bid contracts, loot for friends and contributersuse private companies' mercenaries instead of soldiers [more loot for friends and contributers]illegal and unjustified war in Iraq [more loot.......]and so on.Any citizens who can bring themselves to vote for national GOP candidates after that really need their heads examined. Wed 22 Sep 2010 20:32:34 GMT+1 McJakome http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=43#comment17 This post has been Removed Wed 22 Sep 2010 20:31:59 GMT+1 McJakome http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=41#comment16 7. At 4:21pm on 22 Sep 2010, MarcusAureliusII wrote:"Newspapers dance around Obama's War""Six weeks from today they'll be dancing around his political deathbed. First a lame duck, then a dead duck unless he can get America's economy moving much faster by then. It's an old saying that Americans vote their pocketbooks and right now many of them feel like theirs has a hole in the bottom of it."MAII once again tells the uncomfortable truth uncomfortably.I hope that, like myself, a majority of voters remember who put the hole in their pocketbooks. It was little Georgy "W" who did it with his little hatchet[men], Cheney, Rumsefeld, etc. Unlike Washington, Georgie could, indeed, tell a lie, even hundreds of lies.deregulating the greedy banks and Wall Street Scumno-bid contracts, loot for friends and contributersuse private companies' mercenaries instead of soldiers [more loot for friends and contributers]illegal and unjustified war in Iraq [more loot.......]and so on.Any citizens who can bring themselves to vote for national GOP candidates after that really need their heads examined. Wed 22 Sep 2010 20:31:19 GMT+1 McJakome http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=38#comment15 2. At 3:48pm on 22 Sep 2010, Scott0962 wrote: "2. At 3:48pm on 22 Sep 2010, Scott0962 wrote:From what I've heard on the radio and read in the news Woodward's book paints an unflattering portrait of President Obama and his administration in regrds to their handling of the war. It will be interesting to see how the Democrats and their media aliies try to spin this away since Woodward's journalistic credentials are impeccable and as one of the journalists who blew the lid off the Watergate coverup it will be very difficult to paint him as a conservative stooge."First read the book I previously mentioned [ ], with a Woodward introduction. Then consider some of these rabid right-wing, "my country right or wrong" posters who will consider any criticism [especially if merited] treasonable and hatred for America. UNLESS of a Democrat in the White House, right? So how are they going to spin it? Since there is a {black] Democrat in the White House, any charge of treason must be true, but since Woodward has pointed out many wrongs by the US including under GOP presidents, he muust be a liar and a traitor. My guess, based on FOX attacking and attacking the funding of the Islamic Center by a co-owner of FOX, they will use it to blame Obama without naming the source.More double think and hypocracy brought to you by the FOX/GOP/TEA/Palin Party. Wed 22 Sep 2010 20:20:21 GMT+1 colonelartist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=35#comment14 Beyond the internal battles, the book offers fresh disclosures on the nation’s continuing battle with terrorists. It reports that the C.I.A. has a 3,000-man “covert army” in Afghanistan called the Counterterrorism Pursuit Teams, or C.T.P.T., mostly Afghans who capture and kill Taliban fighters and seek support in tribal areas.-------------------------------------------------------------------------The tribal areas in Pakistan...the afghanis trained by indians and indirectly cia as well, come to pakistan, create mischief and kill people and then return to the safe havens in afghanistan... Wed 22 Sep 2010 19:42:11 GMT+1 colonelartist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=33#comment13 In the end it all comes to down to Obama being a politician and like most politicians he'd rather lose a war than election.------------------------------------------------------------------------The war was never designed to win, it was started quickly without any plan as a knee jerk reaction..Do you remember how it was right after 9/11, do you? Bush does... Wed 22 Sep 2010 19:07:10 GMT+1 Scott0962 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=30#comment12 In the end it all comes to down to Obama being a politician and like most politicians he'd rather lose a war than election. Wed 22 Sep 2010 18:00:19 GMT+1 hms_shannon http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=28#comment11 9. At 5:08pm on 22 Sep 2010, ScottNYC wrote:What's a tenterhook?That is a good question,that term is used,when one is unsure or anxious.I did not know its origin,but use the term often... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenterhook Wed 22 Sep 2010 17:59:23 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=25#comment10 ScottNYC #9."What's a tenterhook?"crickey, don't you know how to google or use Wikipedia??http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenterhook Wed 22 Sep 2010 17:32:12 GMT+1 AndreaNY http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=23#comment9 4. Wokingboy92:"Reading the Washington Post review I am not sure why the book is 'scathing' about Obama's decisions on Afghanistan? "***************The criticism is that Obama made a "political" decision versus a "military" decision on Afghanistan. Another big criticism is that Obama said something about being able to "absorb" another 9/11. It was a cold, but true, remark that reflected a level of abstraction that is his trademark. Wed 22 Sep 2010 17:21:33 GMT+1 ScottNYC http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=20#comment8 What's a tenterhook? Wed 22 Sep 2010 16:08:52 GMT+1 MagicKirin http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=17#comment7 What nakes you think the NYT is still a great newspaper? Maybe 20 years ago, not it's just part of the propganda dept of the Democratic party. Wed 22 Sep 2010 15:36:00 GMT+1 MarcusAureliusII http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=15#comment6 "Newspapers dance around Obama's War"Six weeks from today they'll be dancing around his political deathbed. First a lame duck, then a dead duck unless he can get America's economy moving much faster by then. It's an old saying that Americans vote their pocketbooks and right now many of them feel like theirs has a hole in the bottom of it. Wed 22 Sep 2010 15:21:02 GMT+1 ghostofsichuan http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=12#comment5 "inside the beltway".....publicity....book sales and maybe some scraps of truth. He has been riding the coat-tails of Watergate for a very long time. Inside the beltway opinions are presented as facts.. Wed 22 Sep 2010 15:20:27 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=10#comment4 It is no secret that President Obama would have preferred a rapid withdrawal from both Iraq and Afghanistan, but political imperatives have prevailed with predictable consequences for the President. When he decided to escalate troop levels in Afghanistan he did not only did not satisfy the military commanders or the conservative Republicans that want to prolong this conflict as long as possible, but he lost much of the support he enjoyed from his political base to boot.The fact that difference of opinions and quarrels are the norm in his administration is not surprising. When he began to make his cabinet and advisory appointments he stated that he did not want a "yes team", that he not only wanted debate but expected it and encouraged it.I wish he had closed the Guantanamo prison camp by now, that he had withdrawn ALL troops from Iraq by now, and that instead of escalating the conflict in Afghanistan he had ordered an orderly withdrawal and assigned responsibility to the CIA to find and deal with the remaining Al Qaeda leaders, planners, financiers and fighters, but it is evident that politics is sometimes more powerful than principle or promises. I don't see a de-escalation of the Afghanistan war for at least another year, perhaps longer. Wed 22 Sep 2010 15:17:08 GMT+1 Wokingboy92 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=7#comment3 Reading the Washington Post review I am not sure why the book is 'scathing' about Obama's decisions on Afghanistan? So he asked the Generals as Commander in Chief what is the exit strategy as I do not want to commit tens of thousands of more troops on an open ended operation at the cost of billions of dollars when we have already done that for the past nine years? They cannot / will not give him an acceptable answer so he as Commander in Chief puts a strategy together himself. Yes he disagrees with his Generals but then again so have many political leaders (most notably Truman and MacArthur over Korea).Also, why is it called Obama's Wars - surely he inherited them from George Bush so shouldn't it be 'Bush's War Legacy and how Obama is trying to deal with them'? Wed 22 Sep 2010 15:02:09 GMT+1 colonelartist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=5#comment2 Beyond the internal battles, the book offers fresh disclosures on the nation’s continuing battle with terrorists. It reports that the C.I.A. has a 3,000-man “covert army” in Afghanistan called the Counterterrorism Pursuit Teams, or C.T.P.T., mostly Afghans who capture and kill Taliban fighters and seek support in tribal areas. Past news accounts have reported that the C.I.A. has a number of militias, including one trained on one of its compounds, but not the size of the covert army. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Same old incompetent people and their same old strategies..In 80s CIA trained Mujahedeen to kill and now they train the so called militia to train, using same old training compounds...Throw in Indian army in here as well...Karzai is manic depressive, Zardari of pakistan has PTSD and depression....and the american government is paranoid...Axis of psychiatric patients.. Wed 22 Sep 2010 14:56:56 GMT+1 Scott0962 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=2#comment1 From what I've heard on the radio and read in the news Woodward's book paints an unflattering portrait of President Obama and his administration in regrds to their handling of the war. It will be interesting to see how the Democrats and their media aliies try to spin this away since Woodward's journalistic credentials are impeccable and as one of the journalists who blew the lid off the Watergate coverup it will be very difficult to paint him as a conservative stooge.Wonderful timing by Woodward and his publisher to release this so close to the fall elections, it will surely get tons of free publicity which will boost sales. Wed 22 Sep 2010 14:48:21 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/09/newspapers_dance_around_obamas.html?page=0#comment0 Mark Mardell."All very "inside the Beltway" I know - and a field day for lawyers - and a big plug for the book."and all so irrelevant to the flood victims of Pakistan, the earthquake victims of Haiti, and so on. but hey, who cares? Wed 22 Sep 2010 14:17:53 GMT+1