Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html en-gb 30 Fri 01 Aug 2014 12:49:09 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html Fluidly Unsure http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=99#comment199 The Tea Party started as a Libertarian movement against the abuses of the big government that is bulldozing us."However, Scott's response of "It may be, but it's not the definition of a candidate who is acceptable to people like me anymore." smacks of selfishness and narrow mindedness of the highest order. Leaders are elected to represent and serve all the people, not just one section."So when I decide to support who I think will run the nation better I am being selfish? Are you? Sat 08 May 2010 04:59:59 GMT+1 Justin http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=99#comment198 #1, I spend a lot of time in the Pittsburgh area and I can sum up your description of Pennsylvania's political divide in one sentence.Pittsburgh in the west, Philadelphia in the east, and Alabama in between. Wed 05 May 2010 03:19:26 GMT+1 LucyJ http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=98#comment197 There are places in cities where you will get killed if you are a white person. There are places in cities where you will get killed if you are a black person. There are places in cities where you will get killed if you are hispanic. These places are extremely dangerous and you must be street-smart to avoid these areas.These places are usually the rough neighborhoods, where only one ethnicity lives, such as all black, all white, all hispanic, ect.Truthfully, all races are racist. Tue 04 May 2010 16:34:35 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=98#comment196 Ref 196, DenverGuest"When african-americans banded together to fight Jim Crow laws in the south, were they racists? Were their organizations, like NAACP, racist organizations? They existed to benefit one race, so maybe they had a lot in common with the KKK?"Unfortunately, facts and logic are irrelevant to people such as those that made up the despicable sign you mentioned. I tried to make a similar argument when some posters compared the KKK to La Raza to no avail. You know you are in trouble when a segment of our society manages to put in place policy to fire teachers who speak with an accent...a Hispanic accent that is. Mon 03 May 2010 20:26:28 GMT+1 DenverGuest http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=97#comment195 Today I got an email from an avowed right-winger. It was a picture of a sign that somebody had put up on the side of the road somewhere in Texas. It said, "We have an african lion in the zoo and a lyin' african in the White House."I think this about sums up the racial attitudes of those on the right in this country. Sarah Palin and her ilk are not allowed to voice such views. It is left to their followers to disseminate this material.Question to AllenT2:When african-americans banded together to fight Jim Crow laws in the south, were they racists? Were their organizations, like NAACP, racist organizations? They existed to benefit one race, so maybe they had a lot in common with the KKK? Mon 03 May 2010 18:36:19 GMT+1 Interestedforeigner http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=97#comment194 193. At 7:12pm on 02 May 2010, GH1618 wrote:"InterestedForeigner, your link in post #190 does not work outside of Canada."____________That's a shame. It is a real CBC "Hockey Night in Canada" streaming video website with two guys doing the colour commentary in Punjabi. It isn't a spoof. Hilarious, and yet somehow profoundly heartwarming.It turns cultural stereotypes and assumptions completely upside-down. Mon 03 May 2010 01:06:16 GMT+1 MagicKirin http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=96#comment193 ref #191Unfortunately, the people that seem to dominate debate on just about every issue seem to be more interested in red meat and political victories than pragmatic solutions to a serious problem that take into account legal, moral, and economic considerations.______________I hope your side of the aisle on this one too. Because I see very few of the people demonizing Arizona's proponents; even acknowledging the problem of crime and murder that they face. Sun 02 May 2010 20:25:44 GMT+1 GH1618 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=96#comment192 InterestedForeigner, your link in post #190 does not work outside of Canada. Sun 02 May 2010 18:12:58 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=95#comment191 powermeerkat"Demanding that Spanish be made an official language in a country in which even English is not an official language (U.S. doesn't have one) is not seeking 'equal rights'"Judging by what I see and hear on TV and the radio I would say that most of the demontrators in California and other parts of the country do not have a good understanding of American values, rights, or our laws. In fact, I doubt they are very familiar with those in their country of origin either. In my opinion, people should be allowed to speak whatever language they wish, but since English is the dominant language in our country those that do not speak it risk economic failure and being ostracized by the majority. Obviously, it is in their benefit to learn English. Sun 02 May 2010 14:04:54 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=95#comment190 Ref 188, Magic"Do more to encourage and expidite legal immigration..."You are absolutely right, that must be part of the solution and there are several Hispanic congressmen and other leaders pressuring the administration to do so. Unfortunately, the people that seem to dominate debate on just about every issue seem to be more interested in red meat and political victories than pragmatic solutions to a serious problem that take into account legal, moral, and economic considerations. Sun 02 May 2010 13:51:58 GMT+1 Interestedforeigner http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=94#comment189 188. At 1:08pm on 02 May 2010, MagicKirin wrote:ref #185"... Do more to encourage and expedite legal immigration ..."In essence you are in favour of measures previously proposed on a bi-partisan basis? (One of the co-sponsors being one of your own state senators, I believe).____________And now for the lighter side of immigration (this just cracks me up) ...http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Sports/CBC%27s_Hockey_Night_in_Canada/Punjabi_Full_Games/ID=1477493433 Sun 02 May 2010 13:08:02 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=94#comment188 Re La Raza (Race) outfit.Demanding that Spanish be made an official language in a country in which even English is not an official language (U.S. doesn't have one) is not seeking 'equal rights'.It's attempting a reconquista. ["by other means"]Just as La Raza's demand for bi-lingual education in American public schools is.NO PASARAN! [as Dolores Ibarruri would yell :)] Sun 02 May 2010 13:00:53 GMT+1 MagicKirin http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=93#comment187 ref #185First for an acknowledgment that illegal immigrants have no right to come here.This has to be recognized by Mexico and other countries.Do more to encourage and expidite legal immigration and get responsible leaders of the immigration movement (not La Raza which is a racist group just like the Black Panthers)to work with the administration.Finally to increase penalties including prison on those employers who knoingly employ the illegal aliens.That would be a start. Sun 02 May 2010 12:08:55 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=93#comment186 Ref 178, Allen"You are very funny and quite in denial, or quite ignorant, of what La Raza is all about. No one can reasonably or logically deny that the organization La Raza (The Race) is not racist."I believe my earlier response acknowledged that both organization are racist in the sense that both advance the interests or rights of a specific ethnic group. The difference, again, is that one seeks white supremacy while the other pursues equality.If you have specific examples to demonstrate that members of La Raza have lynched people of other ethnic groups because of their ethnicity, have forced them to ride on the back of a bus, have blown up schools and churches attended by members of other ethnic groups, or denied others the rights they enjoy please show them to me and I'll be delighted to acknowledge I was wrong.I readily admit that I am not intimately familiar with what goes on in that organization nowadays, and that my opinion is influenced by what I saw and heard when I lived in Barstow, California, many years ago, but at least in those days there were no parallels between the KKK and La Raza other that the fact that both represented a specific ethnic group. Sun 02 May 2010 11:22:24 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=92#comment185 Ref 180, powermeerkat"If someone complains about Arizona anti-illegal immigration law they should ask themeselves why has the current Administration not proposed a comprehensivie immigration law so far,"Probably for the same reason the Bush Administration and every administration before did not do so. Showing an ounce of humanity or pragmatism on this issue is political suicide and every politician in Washington knows it. Obviously, the GOP is well aware of that and are taunting President Obama to take the bait and pursue what would guarantee the biggest defeat in the history of American politics. Sun 02 May 2010 11:12:35 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=92#comment184 Ref 183, Magic"3. What their idea is to solve this problem?"What is yours? Sun 02 May 2010 11:08:24 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=91#comment183 Ref 179, AmericanGrizzly"Are you even American? Or are you one of the many non-Americans here that amusingly act as if they know what America is really like?"The last time I checked Brooklyn, NYC, is still part of the USA although, admittedly, at times it may seem like part of another planet. Obviously, neither I nor you know what is in the minds of every single illegal - or legal - immigrant but I can tell you that the latter definitely do not want to transform the USA into a replica of what they left behind. The fact that they miss their relatives, friends, the way of life they had while growing up, and all the things they were familiar with does not mean they want the USA to resemble Mexico or any other country. In fact, most hope the USA remains the way it is and continues to offer the same opportunities and freedoms.Trying to preserve our heritage and customs is not unique to Hispanics, every segment of our population does it to varying degrees. The real issue we are dealing with is ethnic and cultural intolerance, and the fear that a large influx of Latinos, most of whom are indigenous people, will change the makeup of our Norman Rockwell society and our way of life forever. Sun 02 May 2010 11:07:03 GMT+1 MagicKirin http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=91#comment182 A few things to consider on the immigration law that celebrties are unwlling to address or don't seem to care about1. This targets illegal immigrants who have no right to be here2. The safety of legal immigrants, and citzens. Were Shakira, Rondstat and Guillen asked about it?3. What their idea is to solve this problem? Sun 02 May 2010 09:57:15 GMT+1 american grizzly http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=90#comment181 " Go for it.... I am happily in Europe." MisterFubarYeah with your little EU socialist dogma, This little PIIGS went to the EU, this little PIIGS stayed in the EU,this little PIIGS had free spending, this little PIIGS had none, this little PIIGS went freeee, frreee bailout of billions all the way home. Stay there live with the PIIGS. Sun 02 May 2010 09:51:48 GMT+1 AllenT2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=90#comment180 Tinkersdamn wrote:"Response to Allen T2: Take another look at your comment #80. A fellow from Briton has made some observations about his district, fairly commonplace ones at that, and you suggest he leave the country- as an American, I'm embarassed for you."What for? I know exactly what I was responding to. The fact remains he is showing fundamental intolerance towards the political views and culture of a country he chose to come to and live in! No one is forcing him to live here!"It's clear enough there are aspects of our nation you don't like, and you express that, which is fine. Now, imagine if some gas bag who didn't share your perspective responded to you, "America: love it or leave it!" - that wouldn't be so fine; that's basically what you did."I will say it once again, the person I was responding to comes from another country and another culture! If I was talking to another American, especially one raised in America, then my response would be quite different! If one is incapable of fundamentally respecting the culture of a country they choose to go to and live in then they shouldn't expect to be welcomed! Such a response would be typical, and right, in most any country! Sun 02 May 2010 08:47:28 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=89#comment179 Re #175 AmericanGrizzlyIf someone complains about Arizona anti-illegal immigration law they should ask themeselves why has the current Administration not proposed a comprehensivie immigration law so far, despite pres. Obama promising to do so, and why the Democrat-controlled Congress has failed to enact a pertinent bill on its own?Must we really wait till November, and in the meantime have states like Texas and New Mexico enact, out of desperation, similar laws to that of the state of Arizona?Which are then going to be critisized by the White House? Sun 02 May 2010 08:22:45 GMT+1 AllenT2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=89#comment178 SaintDominick wrote:"The last thing immigrants want to do is transform the USA into the homeland they left behind."Since we have been talking about ILLEGAL immigrants try not to leave out that important distinction.And if you really believe that comment then you obviously haven't visited some of the neighborhoods and communities that are made up of ILLEGAL immigrants and their descendants. You may as well be in Mexico. Are you even American? Or are you one of the many non-Americans here that amusingly act as if they know what America is really like? Sun 02 May 2010 08:11:59 GMT+1 AllenT2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=88#comment177 SaintDominick wrote:"Both organizations are intent on advancing the interests of specific ethnic groups, but while one seek supremacy by violent means, the other pursues equality through demonstrations designed to force legislation that protects the interests of those they represent."LOL. So the KKK is seeking "supremacy" but La Raza (The Race) only "pursues equality?" You are very funny and quite in denial, or quite ignorant, of what La Raza is all about. No one can reasonably or logically deny that the organization La Raza (The Race) is not racist. Sun 02 May 2010 08:00:21 GMT+1 d_m http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=88#comment176 This post has been Removed Sun 02 May 2010 07:34:44 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=87#comment175 "The Department of Homeland Security waited until Thursday to declare that the incident was “a spill of national significance,” and then set up a second command center in Mobile. The actions came only after the estimate of the size of the spill was increased fivefold to 5,000 barrels a day. The delay meant that the Homeland Security Department waited until late this week to formally request a more robust response from the Department of Defense, with Ms. Napolitano acknowledging even as late as Thursday afternoon that she did not know if the Defense Department even had equipment that might be helpful." [NYT]Now, what is the middle name of this Administration? Inept? Sun 02 May 2010 07:12:20 GMT+1 american grizzly http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=87#comment174 " IMO the Tea Party advocates want a smaller, less intrusive govt, not trying to tell everyone what to do: the size toilet tank you can install in your WC, (1.6 gallons) what insurance policy you can buy, how much salt you can put on your food, etc. They'll support any candidate, GOP or Democrat, who can provide serious ideas about reducing the size of the Federal govt, therefore getting a handle on the Federal deficit. Expanding our military bases around the globe is 180 degrees out of phase with their wants. Bringing most of our military people home would be more consonant with their ideas, but with the present rate of unemployment a plan in that direction would need much work on details."TeaPot562Stop writing sense like this, they will figure out the Taxed Enough Already movement. They would much rather vilify it, demonize it, anything that suits a twisted agenda of both parties. Well someone close to me just became a citizen. I was invited to the ceremony for naturalization. Interestingly when a immigrant becomes a US citizen, they can apply to bring family members in. The Immigration Offical stated that certain groups face various time in waiting due to the amount each group has in the country. Well Mexico has so many applications pending, the backlog is estimated at 20 years! Now lets factor in amnesty for 11 to 15 million illegals (plus the border is still open for crossing into the US). Lets use a conservative estimate of say 2 more additional people for each illegal amnesty case. That would mean another 45 million or so people for the US to absorb! Healthcare, schools, and lots of $$$$$$$ to care for this influx. Someone has to pay! Race to the bottom is underway, generations will be left with the tab. Sun 02 May 2010 00:20:45 GMT+1 JR http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=86#comment173 SaintDominick, I've noticed that people who must always use Obama's middle name are only trying to make some veiled attempt to call him a Muslim, if you feel that he is then say so and then we can define you clearly as an idiot Sat 01 May 2010 22:40:43 GMT+1 AndreaNY http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=86#comment172 171. SaintDominick:"Would you care to tell us why you insist on mentioning President Obama's middle name and reiterating similarities to names of people in a certain part of the world? "***********Because that IS is middle name? Ask yourself why you are so touchy about its being used. Would you prefer people never mention his middle name? Sat 01 May 2010 16:35:35 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=85#comment171 Ref 153, Gavrielle"And it would only be for a few generations, until all of South America is caught up to North America - after we become one big Spanish speaking super state."Very unlikely. Almost invariably the children of immigrants - legal and illegal - try to assimilate and often go to great lengths to avoid looking or acting like their parents. My wife was born in Spain and I speak Spanish fluently because of the many years I spent in Venezuela, Spain and Puerto Rico. When I returned to the USA in 1969 my wife didn't speak English, didn't know how to drive, was not familiar with the US currency and was totally unfamiliar with our form of government and way of life. Fortunately she befriended an African American family (neighbors) who helped her integrate into our society when I had to go overseas for one year to a location that was not a family assignment. At first, we spoke Spanish at home until my wife learned how to speak English. Our children speak less Spanish than most American kids do even though they were exposed to it since they were born.The last thing immigrants want to do is transform the USA into the homeland they left behind. They come here because of the opportunities our country offers to anyone willing to learn and make an effort to get ahead. Yes, there are drug gangs and undesirables among them, but most are decent and hard working people willing to do whatever it takes to get ahead.It is not unusual for immigrants to want to go back home after they achieve their financial goals; mostly because they miss their families, culture, and because they feel rejected and very lonely. There are indeed a lot of beautiful places in Mexico where people live in peace and prosper, but most of the people that enter the USA illegally come from areas beset by violence prompted by drug trafficking. Many are illiterate and have little chance of getting ahead in their homeland, but have no problem finding relatively good paying jobs (by their standards) working in farms and doing menial work in the USA. Sat 01 May 2010 11:07:49 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=85#comment170 powermeerkat"P.S. No I've never questioned Mr. Obama's Americanism and an official place of his birth."President Obama's "official" place of birth happens to be Hawaii, which the last time I checked is still part of the USA.Would you care to tell us why you insist on mentioning President Obama's middle name and reiterating similarities to names of people in a certain part of the world? Don't bother to answer, the reason is inescapable and I am sure it is perfectly clear to people like the woman who expressed her horror during the last presidential campaign when she whispered the word Arab to describe his ethnicity or religion, who cares which one since to some both are one and the same. "Although I've noticed that some have questioned Americanism of children of American service men and women, born in U.S. military bases abroad."Children of American citizens (not only servicemen) born in a US base, embassy, consulate, or even a US plane or vessel are considered American born and have the same rights and privileges as anyone else. In fact, spouses and children of American citizens born abroad are granted visas and allowed to enter our country without impediment.My comment referred to the difference of opinions that so many people have when the American citizen in question happens to be a Hispanic or, in the case in question, the children of illegal immigrants born in the USA. I am fully aware of the differences between a person serving the country or working abroad legally and those that enter a country illegally, but I don't believe children should be penalized for the actions of their parents and special concessions - with caveats - should be made in those cases. Sat 01 May 2010 10:38:57 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=84#comment169 Ref 165, powermeerkat"Any comments from the Left wing extremists are welcome"Yes, the student guilty of breaking the law should be tried, convicted and should serve time for his crime. Sat 01 May 2010 10:23:46 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=84#comment168 Ref 168, powermeerkat"One can state that KKK is a racist organization, but must not say thatLa Raza (Race) is".You can say whatever you wish, and so can I. Both organizations are intent on advancing the interests of specific ethnic groups, but while one seek supremacy by violent means, the other pursues equality through demonstrations designed to force legislation that protects the interests of those they represent.I you are aware of La Raza being involved in lynchings, church and school burnings, denying children the right to attend segregated school, ride a bus, or be in town after dark please provide us with some examples. Sat 01 May 2010 10:20:00 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=83#comment167 #159 re powermeerkat's comment:["I Guess one can state that KKK is a racist organization. But one cannot say that La Raza (Race) IS."Allen T2 reacted:"LOL. Please tell me you are kidding. An organization that calls itself the The Race is not racist? :)"Meerkat clarifies: perhaps I should have written:"One can state that KKK is a racist organization, but must not say thatLa Raza (Race) is". Sat 01 May 2010 08:38:24 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=83#comment166 This post has been Removed Sat 01 May 2010 08:17:57 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=82#comment165 rE #117 Scott wrote: :"Do we really care who runs it [Afghanistan] as long as they don't let Al Qaeda operate terrorist training camps there again?"No, not really.And there are plenty of people who think that we should forget about lofty and naive dreams od 'democracy building' in countries which clearly have no use for it and support instead any foreign leader/regime as long as, to quote a notorious saying, " they are OUR s.o.b.s".-------------------------------------------------------------------------"IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER A CAT IS WHITE OR BLACK AS LONG AS IT CATCHES MICE'(Teng-Siao-ping] Sat 01 May 2010 08:07:08 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=82#comment164 Re: right wing extremism... 'A jury in Tennessee has convicted a former student of hacking the e-mail account of Sarah Palin.David Kernell, 22, was found guilty of obstructing justice and unauthorised access to a computer. The son of a Democratic lawmaker, he faces up to 20 years in prison for the first charge and one year for the charge of hacking. He broke into Mrs Palin's e-mail account during her 2008 Republican campaign for the US vice-presidency. [...]Mrs Palin, a former governor of Alaska, posted a statement on her Facebook page saying: [...] "As Watergate taught us, we rightfully reject illegally breaking into candidates' private communications for political intrigue in an attempt to derail an election," [BBC News]Any comments from the Left wing extremists are welcome. Sat 01 May 2010 07:50:40 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=81#comment163 SD re Barack Hussein Obama.Sorry about missing an extra 's' in our beloved President's middle name.One cannot be too careful these days: since names of other world leaders such as [Hosni] Mubarak and [Saddam] Hussein are so similar.Anyway, I'll make sure from now on to spell Barack Obama's middle name with 'ss'. And, again, my profuse apologies.P.S. No I've never questioned Mr. Obama's Americanism and an official place of his birth.Although I've noticed that some have questioned Americanism of children of American service men and women, born in U.S. military bases abroad. Sat 01 May 2010 07:44:05 GMT+1 Tinkersdamn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=81#comment162 Response to Allen T2: Take another look at your comment #80. A fellow from Briton has made some observations about his district, fairly commonplace ones at that, and you suggest he leave the country- as an American, I'm embarassed for you.It's clear enough there are aspects of our nation you don't like, and you express that, which is fine. Now, imagine if some gas bag who didn't share your perspective responded to you, "America: love it or leave it!" - that wouldn't be so fine; that's basically what you did. Sat 01 May 2010 07:41:34 GMT+1 TrueToo http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=80#comment161 153. Gavrielle_LaPoste wrote:And it is not such a bad life in Mexico. At least that's what I hear from the Mexicans at the mission that shares the Episcopal church down the street. Mexico is wonderful and they can't wait to go back when they've made enough money. Also, we should do everything here just like in Mexico, because it would make America even better than it already is and we'd all be much happier. In fact, we should be proud to impoverish ourselves to the benefit of Mexico, because we have so much and they are a very deserving people. And it would only be for a few generations, until all of South America is caught up to North America - after we become one big Spanish speaking super state.Of course, explaining that they could have the same kind of life and still live in Mexico, if they just went after the half dozen or so wealthy families who've controlled Mexico's government and economy for generations, seems a bit too difficult a concept for folks who fearlessly cross the border to have a better life in a country where someone else has already done the hard work of fighting for minority rights. Namely, African Americans, whom they frequently disparage in front of me, because they think my white skin means I secretly agree, or that I don't understand what they are saying because they aren't speaking English.The motives and goals of these illegals have been exposed by campaigners like Terry Anderson and Laurie Roth. And it is interesting to see your corroboration. Anderson is black and is particularly incensed by the ongoing illegal invasion, which includes attacks on blacks by Mexican gangs.157. AllenT2 wrote:Tinkersdamn wrote:"Response to Allen T2 comment #80: I'm an American; you're an embarrassment."I'll be waiting for a response.My guess is that Tinkersdamn is a hit-and-run poster and you ain't gonna get one. Sat 01 May 2010 06:44:39 GMT+1 TrueToo http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=80#comment160 123. SaintDominick wrote:Ref 112, TrueToo"When you make these absurd comparisons, it inevitably has a dual effect - minimising the Nazi terror while portraying ordinary, decent right wing Americans as monsters."I agree, but would add that those portrayals have become one of the favorite tools for both sides of the political spectrum in the USA. A few weeks ago, during the healthcare reform debate, GOP literature depicting President Obama as a Nazi was revealed and attracted a lot of attention.Grossly insulting comparisons are evidently not only made by those on the left of the political spectrum. Here's what I wrote subsequently in comment 112:It [the comparison of right wing Americans to Nazis] also has the possibly unintended effect of deeply insulting the Jews and everyone else Hitler butchered since if the Nazis were only equivalent to right wing Americans then the Holocaust could not have been so bad, right? Wrong, obviously.Most mindlessly insulting of all, of course, is the comparison of the victims of the Nazis with the Nazis themselves, as when Israelis are compared to Nazis. This is a favourite "liberal" tactic employed by the SaintDominicks of the Internet. Sat 01 May 2010 06:19:40 GMT+1 AllenT2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=79#comment159 Chris wrote:AllenT2 wrote:"Many Americans obviously feel differently, but it is their country. America, in the end, isn't your country.No offense, but if you are not willing to be accepting and tolerant of a culture you chose to live amongst then maybe it's time to go back to the UK.It's "mind-boggling" to you because you are from another country and another culture. It's "mind-boggling" to you because you are intolerant to the views and ways of another culture.Once again my friend, you are not forced to be here."I'm an American native and I couldn't agree more with those posters. The bitterness and divisiveness of both the far left and far right has gotten out of hand. It's fine to fight out elections, but once that is done, they need to roll up their sleeves and get down to working together. It seems like the campaigning never ends. Instead of doing the work that needs to be done, it is all about scoring points for the next election.__________________________________________________________________Chris I am the one that wrote what you quoted above, notBritInAmerica. I corrected your post above by removing "BritInAmerica wrote:" before my quoted comments. Sat 01 May 2010 05:53:58 GMT+1 AllenT2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=79#comment158 powermeerkat wrote:"I Guess one can state that KKK is a racist organization. But one cannot say that La Raza (Race) IS."LOL. Please tell me you are kidding. An organization that calls itself the The Race is not racist? :)An organization that labels itself, promotes itself and distinguishes itself based on the particular race of its members is not racist?One doesn't even need to get down to the nitty gritty dirt of what La Raza is all about because by definition such an organization IS racist!How do you think most liberals out there would react to a white organization called The Race? :) Sat 01 May 2010 05:47:12 GMT+1 AllenT2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=78#comment157 squirrelist wrote:"When did the 'American soul' become different from everybody else's? I wonder how you implement 'soul inspections'? "Sorry sir/madam, we can't give you a visa/citizenship, you have the wrong kind of soul"."Squirrelist are you still desperately trying to become an American? Sat 01 May 2010 05:33:59 GMT+1 AllenT2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=78#comment156 Tinkersdamn wrote:"Response to Allen T2 comment #80: I'm an American; you're an embarrassment."Why don't you explain why?! Why don't you tell me why it is wrong to enforce universal laws on illegal immigration?! Why don't you tell me why America should allow millions of people from another country to come here illegally?!Why don't you tell me why it is right for Americans to be denied better health care while local, state, and federal agencies pay for the care of people that do not even belong here?!Why don't you explain why a third of America's prison population are here illegally?I could go on and on but those points would be a nice place to start. Or is it that you can not logically explain or address these discrepancies?I'll be waiting for a response. Sat 01 May 2010 05:23:43 GMT+1 AllenT2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=77#comment155 Scott0962 wrote:"The fishermen claim it will hurt marine life, the local native Americans are claiming it will spoil their sacred view of the sunrise and the NIMBYs are afraid it will spoil their view and affect their property values."Everyone born in America is by definition a "native American." Sat 01 May 2010 05:11:11 GMT+1 Snagletooth http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=77#comment154 140. At 9:42pm on 30 Apr 2010, frayedcat wrote:#139 ... hmmm ... so the "liberals" are trying to control your life are they - I suggest you get a tin foil hat. I just saw a gang of liberals down the road and they looked pretty mean, green and dangerous.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_foil_hatAs you so strongly support anarchy, please don't use any of the schools, safe roads, safe food, clean water, protection from crime, combatting of disease, or other public utilities or infrastructure our tax dollars pay for. Leave your elderly poor to die in the gutters when they run out of cash. And trust that your workplace will be unsafe, and your home full of lead, asbestos and mold, and be sure to invest your money with this guy Madoff, he won't be regulated...And when you finally find your free and lonely place in the wild, with your hard won cabin and hand tilled fields, don't look to the 'liberals' to save you or protect your rights when a lumber company or oil rig plows through and takes or destroys everything you built.----------------------There's a lot of people in jail for doing just that. Liberals, and many conservatives, have made it illegal to be self reliant. Try disconnecting yourself from city water and gas and see how fast the city inspectors condemn you're house. Try running a completely self reliant farm and see how fast FDA is there to pump you're cattle full of their drugs. ever hear of compulsory education? Just try and not send you're kids to school before there 16. Oh, and if you somehow do manage to do what no one else in the USA has managed to do without getting arrested or regulated back into liberal-controlled society, stop paying SSI taxes because you benefit none, nor will collect, from the liberal programs, and you, again, will find yourself in jail. And that's not control how? To free yourself from the liberal government control is ILLEGAL!!!! Sat 01 May 2010 03:24:00 GMT+1 Interestedforeigner http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=76#comment153 These guys have cast their issue in terms of national security.Well, maybe, but what I read between the lines is that there are a bunch of retired men who have spent their entire careers in the service of their country, and who care profoundly about her future:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8655651.stm Sat 01 May 2010 02:13:32 GMT+1 Gavrielle_LaPoste http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=76#comment152 149. At 11:31pm on 30 Apr 2010, SaintDominick wrote:My comment about Sen. McCain's birthplace was not intended to question his citizenship or, much less, question his honorable service record, it simply reminded me of how differently people look at issues when confronted with things we don't like...such as President Obama being POTUS.I see. Unfortunately, the Internet and nuance don't often mix very well.I don't think it is right to deport an American born child, especially to countries beset by misery and violence because his/her parents did something illegal. I'd agree, except we allow the American born children of American parents to live in American neighborhoods beset by misery and violence even if their parents have never done anything illegal. Do they count for less? More importantly, I remember when California was beset by an endless stream of pregnant illegals making the dangerous border crossing just to have their babies in America. Who knows how many of them died trying. The change in the law is also meant to discourage this. And it is not such a bad life in Mexico. At least that's what I hear from the Mexicans at the mission that shares the Episcopal church down the street. Mexico is wonderful and they can't wait to go back when they've made enough money. Also, we should do everything here just like in Mexico, because it would make America even better than it already is and we'd all be much happier. In fact, we should be proud to impoverish ourselves to the benefit of Mexico, because we have so much and they are a very deserving people. And it would only be for a few generations, until all of South America is caught up to North America - after we become one big Spanish speaking super state. Of course, explaining that they could have the same kind of life and still live in Mexico, if they just went after the half dozen or so wealthy families who've controlled Mexico's government and economy for generations, seems a bit too difficult a concept for folks who fearlessly cross the border to have a better life in a country where someone else has already done the hard work of fighting for minority rights. Namely, African Americans, whom they frequently disparage in front of me, because they think my white skin means I secretly agree, or that I don't understand what they are saying because they aren't speaking English. I'm sorry about their half-American kids growing up in a crappy environment, but they shouldn't have come here illegally. Nor should they be crowing to each other about stepping on the backs of Black Americans to achieve more by claiming minority status, and then when they've got it insisting they are neither brown nor black, but very white under a lovely dark tan. And yeah, I've heard that too.Oh, and lest you think I'm prejudiced against all Hispanics, I'm not. Just this recent wave of self-absorbed cretins, who think they are better than everyone else - including other Hispanics whose families have been here for generations. I believe the parents and the children should be allowed to stay, with the caveat that the parents should be denied citizenship in perpetuity as punishment for their illegal act and in exchange for allowing them to remain and work in our country in spite of what they did. Then you believe there should be no pathway to citizenship for any illegal with an American child? Wow! Much harsher justice than what I would have suggested: Let the kid come back at 18, go to school, get a job and legally apply to bring his family to the US, which is what the law is now. Sat 01 May 2010 00:58:22 GMT+1 MagicKirin http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=75#comment151 ref #147typical liberal spin denigrating the Tea Party.The Tea Party people in interviews have demonstrated far more intelligence than the Hollywood crowd, anrachists and hate groups like ANSWER and the blame America groups like Code Pink.There was no violence commited by Tea Party attendees which you cannot say in regard to the pro illegal alien demonstrationsthey are calling for fiscal prudence and accountibility how can anyone argue with that.It cross ethnic and demographic groups. Fri 30 Apr 2010 23:02:53 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=75#comment150 Ref 136, MagicYou may want to listen to or read President Obama's statement on the issue of offshore oil drilling. I believe what he said is that no NEW offshore drilling leases will be issued until an extensive review is concluded and oil rigs have new safeguards put in place. That is very different from a permanent freeze on offshore drilling which remains uninterrupted.In addition to the extensive damage that accidents like this cause to our eco system and environment, industries such as fishing and tourism are severely affected at a time when they are having trouble making ends meet.The least that can be done is determine the exact cause of this problem and put in place safeguards to prevent a reccurrence.I think Sarah Palin miscalculated how people feel about this and I would not be surprised if we see some back pedaling in days to come. Fri 30 Apr 2010 22:46:35 GMT+1 Scott0962 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=74#comment149 All this fuss about offshore oil drilling and yet folks in Nantucket are protesting over America's first proposed offshore wind farm to provide enough clean, non-polluting energy to power every home on Cape Cod. The fishermen claim it will hurt marine life, the local native Americans are claiming it will spoil their sacred view of the sunrise and the NIMBYs are afraid it will spoil their view and affect their property values.I bet wind farms would look real good to folks in Louisiana. Fri 30 Apr 2010 22:41:27 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=74#comment148 Ref 142, Gavrielle"So why shouldn't a child with dual citizenship be sent home with the mother if she's here illegally and allowed to return to the US whenever they reach their majority?"My comment about Sen. McCain's birthplace was not intended to question his citizenship or, much less, question his honorable service record, it simply reminded me of how differently people look at issues when confronted with things we don't like...such as President Obama being POTUS.The issue of children of illegal immigrants born in the USA is probably one of the most difficult to deal with and deserves not only legal but moral and humane considerations as well. I don't think it is right to deport an American born child, especially to countries beset by misery and violence because his/her parents did something illegal. I believe the parents and the children should be allowed to stay, with the caveat that the parents should be denied citizenship in perpetuity as punishment for their illegal act and in exchange for allowing them to remain and work in our country in spite of what they did. Fri 30 Apr 2010 22:31:33 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=73#comment147 Ref 145, Gavrielle"Reuters is reporting the Coast Guard claim that another drilling rig has overturned in inland waters near Morgan City, Louisiana."Don't worry, Sarah Palin reassured the American people today that she still supports the "drill baby drill" solution, in fact, she said it would make us a more peaceful nation! I always disagreed with those that believe our behavior in the Persian Gulf was motivated by the need to satisfy our oil needs and ambitions, but now that such an erudite person explained it to me in such a persuasive manner I may have to reassess my convictions. Fri 30 Apr 2010 22:19:44 GMT+1 Donald http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=73#comment146 I'm surprised the BBC has given credence to the so called Tea Party movement, given that the last film segment aired by the BBC showed that no minorities were present. Wouldn't that convey some idea that something was wrong? that perhaps it was wrong to take them seriously? Most intelligent Americans do not take them seriously. As for the Republican party going further to the right, that is hardly possible. Listen to Fox news for a while and you'll find out why. Today's Republican party has very little intellectual standing. In their haste to impress themselves, they have foresworn pragmatism, poisoned the waters of discourse and embraced an ideology that rewards action or reactionism rather than thought. If it were not for Corporate America and its alliance with Gannet and Fox, aka Rupert Murdoch,they would have dried up and blown away long ago. Perhaps, some time, Mr. Mardell will spend some time on examining why. Fri 30 Apr 2010 21:58:18 GMT+1 Gavrielle_LaPoste http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=72#comment145 79. At 06:42am on 30 Apr 2010, KScurmudgeon wrote:Gavrielle gave a beautiful synopsis of the development of political parties since the RevolutionThanks! Missed this post earlier. Also, the first line should have read "political partisanship" not bipartisanship is the normal state of affairs. That'll teach me not to switch to my reading glasses! Fri 30 Apr 2010 21:50:55 GMT+1 Gavrielle_LaPoste http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=72#comment144 Reuters is reporting the Coast Guard claim that another drilling rig has overturned in inland waters near Morgan City, Louisiana.America's most productive marine fishery soon to be completely trashed. Guess we'll eventually be hearing that Obama sent out his evil, socialist/communist/Muslim minions to cause the whole catastrophe, so he could keep on enriching his oil buddies in the Middle East and destroy small businesses all along the East Coast in one fell swoop. What a dastardly mastermind he is! Fri 30 Apr 2010 21:08:55 GMT+1 Gavrielle_LaPoste http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=71#comment143 139. At 9:15pm on 30 Apr 2010, CuriousAmerican wrote:"liberalism is a mental disorder"...You'd know all about that, wouldn't you? Fri 30 Apr 2010 20:58:23 GMT+1 Chris http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=71#comment142 "At 9:15pm on 30 Apr 2010, CuriousAmerican wrote:If you can tell...I have nothing but contempt for people who want to control others and steal their lives work so they can feel better about themselves.Just leave me alone....worry about your own life...leave me alone with your Nanny state and your daily intrusion into my life...Savage says it best "liberalism is a mental disorder"..."Many liberals and conservatives want to control people. They just disagree over what they want to control. As usual, the common sense folks are in the middle. Fri 30 Apr 2010 20:54:58 GMT+1 Gavrielle_LaPoste http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=70#comment141 133. At 8:51pm on 30 Apr 2010, SaintDominick wrote:Ref 132, GavriellePlease forgive me for introducing some trivia to this important subject, but Republican Senator John McCain was born at the Coco Solo US Air Base in Panama, Central America, in 1936. I doubt Rep. Hunter is planning to deport good ole John to his birthplace.Why would he? He was born on a military base. Hence, American soil. And to an American family that had the legal right to enter the US. The problem is the parents' legality, not the child's. The fact is, young children should not be parted from their parents unnecessarily. So why shouldn't a child with dual citizenship be sent home with the mother if she's here illegally and allowed to return to the US whenever they reach their majority? Fri 30 Apr 2010 20:53:53 GMT+1 Tinkersdamn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=70#comment140 Response to Allen T2 comment #80: I'm an American; you're an embarassment. Fri 30 Apr 2010 20:44:40 GMT+1 frayedcat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=69#comment139 #139 ... hmmm ... so the "liberals" are trying to control your life are they - I suggest you get a tin foil hat. I just saw a gang of liberals down the road and they looked pretty mean, green and dangerous. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_foil_hatAs you so strongly support anarchy, please don't use any of the schools, safe roads, safe food, clean water, protection from crime, combatting of disease, or other public utilities or infrastructure our tax dollars pay for. Leave your elderly poor to die in the gutters when they run out of cash. And trust that your workplace will be unsafe, and your home full of lead, asbestos and mold, and be sure to invest your money with this guy Madoff, he won't be regulated...And when you finally find your free and lonely place in the wild, with your hard won cabin and hand tilled fields, don't look to the 'liberals' to save you or protect your rights when a lumber company or oil rig plows through and takes or destroys everything you built. Fri 30 Apr 2010 20:42:45 GMT+1 CuriousAmerican http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=69#comment138 If you can tell...I have nothing but contempt for people who want to control others and steal their lives work so they can feel better about themselves.Just leave me alone....worry about your own life...leave me alone with your Nanny state and your daily intrusion into my life...Savage says it best "liberalism is a mental disorder"... Fri 30 Apr 2010 20:15:51 GMT+1 CuriousAmerican http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=68#comment137 libs just want control over every aspect of your life....its their religion...that they don't mind forcing on you against your will. Fri 30 Apr 2010 20:07:33 GMT+1 CuriousAmerican http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=68#comment136 134...are you serious?Carter lost because he was and still is a lunatic lefty that refuses to admit that liberal control of govt is terrible for the people. We now have Carter x10 with another Uber lib with Obama...who will take the mantle of the WORST president EVER from the previous holder Carter.. Fri 30 Apr 2010 20:04:27 GMT+1 MagicKirin http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=67#comment135 SaintDominick wrote:Ref 119, Magic"Eco PanicObama has stopped all off shore drilling.If there is a plane crash will he stop all air travel?"Why don't you advice your GOP heroes in Washington to campaign using their old motto "drill baby drill"...with Sarah as their cheerleader.Destroying our eco-system may not be important to you, but it is for a lot of us. Offshore drilling is risky business, not only because of the likelihood of accidents like the latest one, but in the case of the Gulf Coast because of the potential danger of damage caused by hurricanes. (I am not doubting the eco system importance but this is an excuse for eco moonbats to put a stop on drilling. We can follow the example of other countries and make it safe.It is interesting that the liberals are against alternative energy weather it is Cape Wind, Nuclear or exploiting the oil sands)Offshore drilling is not going to stop, our thirst for oil and our love of gas guzzlers guarantees it will continue - and be expanded - until there is not a drop left, but the latest disaster requires analysis and the implementation of fail-safe mechanisms to minimize the probability of damage to our environment and loss of life.(Yes but not a permentant freeze) Fri 30 Apr 2010 20:00:59 GMT+1 CuriousAmerican http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=67#comment134 liberals are for more govt control over the "little people" with themselves as the over lords of the system as they are the only ones good enough......liberals are sick with wanting to control other people.....All those that dare to have a contrary point of view are evil, stupid, racists, etc......(yawn)Liberals are the enemy of a free people. If you can't see this, then you are blinded by your politics. Fri 30 Apr 2010 20:00:27 GMT+1 frayedcat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=66#comment133 #125....MaryAnn....or Ginger ? "Allegations surfaced that William Casey, director of the Reagan campaign, and some CIA operatives, secretly met with Iranian officials in Europe to arrange for the hostages' release, but not until after the election. If true, some observers aver, dealing with a hostile foreign government to achieve a domestic administration's defeat would have been grounds for charges of treason.Reagan won the election, partly because of the failure of the Carter administration to bring the hostages home. Within minutes of Reagan's inauguration, the hostages were released. Under Reagan, the Iran-Contra Affair completes this story." Fri 30 Apr 2010 19:55:29 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=66#comment132 Ref 132, GavriellePlease forgive me for introducing some trivia to this important subject, but Republican Senator John McCain was born at the Coco Solo US Air Base in Panama, Central America, in 1936. I doubt Rep. Hunter is planning to deport good ole John to his birthplace. Fri 30 Apr 2010 19:51:41 GMT+1 Gavrielle_LaPoste http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=65#comment131 126. At 6:43pm on 30 Apr 2010, Philly-Mom wrote:Since when have women been allowed to do this?I've heard of quite a few Immigration Raids in which working men and women were deported without proper investigation into whether they had children in the area. Relatives and childcare workers had to figure out how to care for the children until the parents either came back into the states or until a relative volunteered to raise the young American on behalf of his/her deported parents.Children born on American soil, including embassies, consulates, military bases and even naval ships or boats are automatically given American citizenship and always have been. Now, as I understand it, what's actually changed is the rule that women who are illegal aliens, but who have even one child bearing American citizenship, are automatically allowed to remain with the child - which is how it used to work. They can now be required to take the child home to their country of origin, if no caretaker can be found. The child, on reaching adulthood, may, of course, return to the US legally as a citizen. Fri 30 Apr 2010 18:57:02 GMT+1 McJakome http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=65#comment130 79. At 06:42am on 30 Apr 2010, KScurmudgeon wroteRE: 76. At 05:36am on 30 Apr 2010, Blogson"...I predict our democracy will rescue itself yet again. This ferment and confusion is the healthiest possible development. After all this is not one of those places we hear about, where the political leadership of the opposition is demanding that responsible citizens boycott the voting booths..."I hope this is true. The problem is that the special interests have corrupted the "parties" {including, in my estimation of their blinkered views of health care reform and paroting of the "health care" industry propaganda, the Tea Party}. In addition, the level of discourse has reached a terrible low, with rampant incivility and unwillingness to listen to the other side of an argument or compromise in the interest of the nation as a whole.KS and I have disagreed on some things, but neither of us has descended to the level of public "discourse" that one is exposed to daily via US radio, TV and publications. I fear it is the deliberate policy of the "special interests" to so divide the nation that no reform will threaten their interests."God help America" indeed. Fri 30 Apr 2010 18:45:19 GMT+1 frayedcat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=64#comment129 #125 - How do you know what he believed in - "...but he believed in America and in the American people and he wasn't afraid to stand up and say "that's wrong and we're not going to stand for it". You wouldn't see Ronald Reagan going around apologizing for America like the current occupant of the White House..."Here is audio clip of Reagan's Iran-Contra apology...hmmm...American as Apple Pie, ain't ithttp://www.realscoop.com/content/reagan-iran-contra-apology/ Fri 30 Apr 2010 18:40:16 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=64#comment128 Ref 119, Magic"Eco PanicObama has stopped all off shore drilling.If there is a plane crash will he stop all air travel?"Why don't you advice your GOP heroes in Washington to campaign using their old motto "drill baby drill"...with Sarah as their cheerleader.Destroying our eco-system may not be important to you, but it is for a lot of us. Offshore drilling is risky business, not only because of the likelihood of accidents like the latest one, but in the case of the Gulf Coast because of the potential danger of damage caused by hurricanes. Offshore drilling is not going to stop, our thirst for oil and our love of gas guzzlers guarantees it will continue - and be expanded - until there is not a drop left, but the latest disaster requires analysis and the implementation of fail-safe mechanisms to minimize the probability of damage to our environment and loss of life. Fri 30 Apr 2010 18:13:43 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=63#comment127 Ref 115, ScottThere are a lot of ambiguities and flaws in our immigration laws, but there is none when it comes to the nationality of people born in the USA, their right to be in this country, and their entitlement to the full protection of our law. Mr. Hunter's statement is an embarrassment that can only appeal to the most extreme members of our society.I doubt Rep. Hunter's statement and the new Arizona law are spontaneous developments motivated by an immigration crisis that requires immediate attention. They are part of a deliberate strategy designed to draw President Obama and congressional Democrats into an immigration reform debate to further improve the GOP chances of overwhelming victory in November and in 2012.Having said that, I will also add that immigration reform should have taken place long ago, regardless of how our business community feels about it. Over 10 million undocumented Latinos are working in the USA, without the protection of Federal or State laws, are being abused and taken advantage of by unscrupulous businessmen, and because of their inability to demand minimum wage and benefits they are aggravating the ability of unskilled Americans to compete for jobs at a time when our unemployment rate is at an unacceptable level. This is a serious matter that should not be trivialized, but I hope President Obama waits until next year to address it. The political climate in our country is poisoned at the moment, not only because of traditional campaign rhetoric and sniping, but because of the fears and anxieties that so many Americans feel as a result of our fiscal and economic problems. We don't need to add more fuel to the fire.Obviously, the immigration concerns are focused strictly on our southern border, those that cross the northern border without papers are good folk seeking a better life in the land of the free. Fri 30 Apr 2010 18:00:18 GMT+1 Philly-Mom http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=63#comment126 Ref 98, powermeerkat"His name, just in case, is Barack Husein Obama".Don't tell Mr.Kitty, but my actual name is Mumia Hussein Benedict-Arnold Napoleana Marx, but since I'm a Baptist homemaker from Georgia, you can call me Mammy.(oh, I still have that waterfront property in Camden, in case anyone's intersted...) Fri 30 Apr 2010 17:53:06 GMT+1 Philly-Mom http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=62#comment125 Scottie 115:"A more germane argument would be that if we can't control our borders then the idea than any woman can cross the border, have her baby and it instantly becomes a citizen with all the rights and privileges thereto is simply not sustainable. "Sorry folks, but I think I missed a memo -- Since when have women been allowed to do this? I've heard of quite a few Immigration Raids in which working men and women were deported without proper investigation into whether they had children in the area. Relatives and childcare workers had to figure out how to care for the children until the parents either came back into the states or until a relative volunteered to raise the young American on behalf of his/her deported parents.Just wondering. Fri 30 Apr 2010 17:43:27 GMT+1 Scott0962 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=62#comment124 re. # 57. At 8:37pm on 29 Apr 2010, PursuitOfLove wrote:"While I unequivocally prefer Carter to Reagan, and think that how he (along with Clinton) has chosen to spend his time after stepping down from office should be a model for all presidents to follow" I would agree that Jimmy Carter is a great ex-president. He is a genuinely nice man. Unfortunately, the qualities that made him such a nice man also made him an ineffective president. Carter as president was a bit naive and indecisive. The presidency requires the occupant to be able to use the velvet glove and, when the occasion calls for it, the iron fist. Carter was all glove and no fist. It's no coincidence that the Iranian Hostage Crisis dragged on under Carter until Reagan was elected--then the Iranians couldn't release their hostages quickly enough.Personally I think Reagan was one of the great presidents. He had his faults and he had his successes and failures like all presidents do but he believed in America and in the American people and he wasn't afraid to stand up and say "that's wrong and we're not going to stand for it". You wouldn't see Ronald Reagan going around apologizing for America like the current occupant of the White House. Fri 30 Apr 2010 17:39:34 GMT+1 Philly-Mom http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=61#comment123 19. arclightt wrote:"...In VA, our biggest acknowledged difficulty seems to be in properly funding transportation issues. VDOT is years behind schedule in several areas, and traffic in Northern VA is uglier than it's ever been."SEPTA ain't all that sweet up here, either. One of the significant issues facing America's Sub-Urban infrastructure is that our regional public transportation is still configured between Urban/Rural models. Oops.(Education Funding is another nightmare, but we can run with that topic another day...)Anywho - many cities have seen Sub-Urban-Sprawl population booms in areas without public transportation funding. You ain't alone, NOVA. Cities everywhere are struggling with the Gas-Guzzling Nightmare.BTW: I was going to drive from Philly to VA today... and almost took off work at noon to do it. The 3-4 hour drive would easily have been 6-9 hours of sloooowww traffic during Friday rush hour. Fortunately, my plans have changed and I'll be able to head W76 & S81... cutting my travel time in half. Fri 30 Apr 2010 17:35:36 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=61#comment122 Ref 112, TrueToo"When you make these absurd comparisons, it inevitably has a dual effect - minimising the Nazi terror while portraying ordinary, decent right wing Americans as monsters."I agree, but would add that those portrayals have become one of the favorite tools for both sides of the political spectrum in the USA. A few weeks ago, during the healthcare reform debate, GOP literature depicting President Obama as a Nazi was revealed and attracted a lot of attention.As Gavrielle pointed out in an earlier post, nasty campaigning, misrepresentations, deceit, lies, exaggerations and other such tactics are not new in American politics. It is up to us to discern the truth from traditional political rhetoric. Fri 30 Apr 2010 17:35:12 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=60#comment121 Ref 116, Andrea"I don't think you really want to go there. That would make so many, many, many, many Americans quite "un-American."I agree, but that doesn't make it less offensive or immature. Fri 30 Apr 2010 17:29:18 GMT+1 LucyJ http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=60#comment120 It is wrong that the Democrats propose putting national security laws and immigration reform together. That is unjust on the behalf of the American people. Immigration reform is not the same issue as national security.All the national security measures and border control should be passed immediatly. Republicans, Democrats and the American people all want this to pass. There is no one against border security. Should be a win-win situation, right? Wrong.The Democrats will only pass border control measures if the immigration reform is also passed. They refuse to separate the two into different bills. It is an extremely dirty trick.The Democrats care more about politics than they do national security, or else they would separate them. Again, national security is not the same issue as immigration reform. They should be on separate bills. Otherwise, these are conflicting interests. The Democrats are putting special interest groups before national security and border control.This is exactly why the Democrats need to be voted out in November.The Republicans are not perfect. But the Republicans want to pass border security on a separate bill before immigration reform, which is the right thing to do. The only thing holding USA back from border control is the Democrats. Linking national security to immigration reform in the same bill is WRONG. Fri 30 Apr 2010 17:20:40 GMT+1 TrueToo http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=59#comment119 111. Philly-Mom,Thousands of African Muslim Sudanese, fleeing Darfur from genocide at the hands of their Arab Muslim brethren have found refuge in Israel, regarded by Jimmy Carter as an "apartheid state." Weird how these desperate Muslims are saved from their fellow-Muslims by the Jews. If Carter were not such a woolly-headed, misguided and tunnel-visioned leftie, he might notice that the apartheid label actually fits the Arabs rulers of Sudan as they decimate their African compatriots, simply because they are black.Thing is, Carter would never in a million years write a book titled Sudan: Peace not Apartheid, because he is faithful to the Arab narrative. His book on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is riddled with factual errors favouring the Arabs, so much so that it appears to have been written by an indoctrinated student trying to impress an anti-Israel lecturer rather than a man who was present at at least some of the events he misrepresents:http://camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=118&x_article=1273Two years ago Carter met Hamas chief Khaled Meshal, conferring legitimacy on a terrorist against the advice of then-President Bush and the State Department. Is Carter anti-Israel? Of course he is. That was evident in his mediation in the Begin-Sadat peace talks thirty years ago as he honoured Sadat and treated Begin like an errant school child, and it is no less evident today. Fri 30 Apr 2010 17:17:17 GMT+1 MagicKirin http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=59#comment118 Eco PanicObama has stopped all off shore drilling.If there is a plane crash will he stop all air travel? Fri 30 Apr 2010 17:04:28 GMT+1 timohio http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=58#comment117 Tempers seem to be flaring exceptionally hot on this thread. Could the full moon have anything to do with it? Fri 30 Apr 2010 16:56:59 GMT+1 Scott0962 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=58#comment116 re. # 91. At 11:30am on 30 Apr 2010, powermeerkat wrote:"Re Jimmy the Peanut Farmer...Angola, Mozambik, then Iran , and, finally, Afghanistan?Who lost them?"Angola and Mozambique: wouldn't that be Portugal, the former colonial power?Iran: I'd say the Shah. Even a super power can't prop up a dictator if he p____s off enough of his own people.Afghanistan: if only Afghanistan would get lost--and stay that way! Seriously, whose was it to lose? Nobody but the Afghans themselves want it. We threw the Taliban out for good reasons and then found ourselves stuck with it. Do we really care who runs it as long as they don't let Al Qaeda operate terrorist training camps there again? Fri 30 Apr 2010 16:29:55 GMT+1 AndreaNY http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=57#comment115 110. SaintDominick:"If you are an American you should show respect for the office of the presidency. "**************I don't think you really want to go there. That would make so many, many, many, many Americans quite "un-American." Fri 30 Apr 2010 16:28:45 GMT+1 Scott0962 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=57#comment114 re. # 93. At 11:48am on 30 Apr 2010, squirrelist wrote:"The Tea Party/Republican answer to fixing a little demographic problem so people can 'take back' their country?At a video recorded tea party rally in Ramona San Diego Republican Congressman, Duncan Hunter was asked by someone in the crowd if he backed deporting natural-born American citizens who are the children of illegal immigrants."I would have to, yes," Hunter said."We're just saying it takes more than walking across the border to become an American citizen," he said. "It's what's in our souls."(I don't know why, but somehow I suspect he has only the southern border in mind, not the northern one. So obviously, we can't really accuse him of xenophobia, can we? "Weasel words" we call this sort of thing, btw, not "squirrelly language", to which usage the Red Squirrel Party obviously objects.)When did the 'American soul' become different from everybody else's? I wonder how you implement 'soul inspections'? "Sorry sir/madam, we can't give you a visa/citizenship, you have the wrong kind of soul"."____________________________Mr. Hunter didn't express it very well but I believe what he was trying to convey is that what makes us Americans is a shared sense of values and beliefs such as for our constitution and national insitutions. Those values are learned, not instantly acquired the moment one crosses the border. While it is a point, it's not a very strong argument for immigration reform or changing the laws governing citizenship since immigrants can obviously learn those values and accept them when they become naturalized citizens.A more germane argument would be that if we can't control our borders then the idea than any woman can cross the border, have her baby and it instantly becomes a citizen with all the rights and privileges thereto is simply not sustainable. That policy may have have been reasonable back when America was trying to encourage new immigrants to populate its unsettled frontiers but those days are long gone. Fri 30 Apr 2010 16:15:05 GMT+1 squirrelist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=56#comment113 Enough. Looks like 'the rest is silence. . ." Fri 30 Apr 2010 16:06:35 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=56#comment112 Ref 109, Philly-Mom"We Americans love our cheesiness"And we do care deeply for our nuts as well. I mean the ones in political rallies and protest movements of course... In any case, it is lunch time. Time for a healthy salad...with some cheese sprinkled on it. Fri 30 Apr 2010 16:04:00 GMT+1 TrueToo http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=55#comment111 73. Risforme wrote: Like the umpteenth time you've gone to talk about Israel when a news story had nothing to do with it.Since it seems like you have been around here for a while you might have noticed how often the Israel-bashers are the ones who first mention Israel when it is unrelated to the thread topic.When they do that it is somehow OK, but when a defender of Israel does the same thing it isn't?And on this thread we have Warren, #4, and Blogson, #76, comparing right wing Americans to the Nazis.When you make these absurd comparisons, it inevitably has a dual effect - minimising the Nazi terror while portraying ordinary, decent right wing Americans as monsters. It also has the possibly unintended effect of deeply insulting the Jews and everyone else Hitler butchered since if the Nazis were only equivalent to right wing Americans then the Holocaust could not have been so bad, right? Wrong, obviously.What Gavrielle_LaPoste wrote in #53 should be mandatory reading for those so keen to fling these Nazi comparisons around:Also, comparing the Tea Partiers to "the National Socialist Party or Nazis" is really unhelpful, and perhaps a symptom of our growing cultural illiteracy. They are much closer in spirit to the Know-Nothings, who feared Catholics and the Papist conspiracies of "foreigners" and subscribed to a nativist, anti-immigration agenda. (Just replace Irish Catholics and the Pope with Arab Muslims and the Birther conspiracies.) The party was widely popular and had some success, but eventually their political movement became one of violence and intimidation at the polls, with riots characterized by numerous deaths and injuries. It subsequently dissolved as those who eschewed violence fled to the more moderate parties. Remember, there is no real tolerance here for the kind of massive, violent, nationalist movement that defined the Nazis, no matter how many people say they hate what the other guy stands for. Mostly, because the other guy is probably just as well-armed and willing to defend his right to argue for the opposition. Fri 30 Apr 2010 15:48:59 GMT+1 Philly-Mom http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=55#comment110 96. A MagicKirin wrote:'Jimmy Carter friend to terrorists, war criminals and dictator.Would be comfortable in a white sheet.'Magic honey - I'm willing to sigh heavily and shake my head at your political ideologies, but that had better not have been a Klan reference. Please try to keep your pet dragon from breathing too much hot air onto the keyboard. Dragon breath is really not the most pleasant of scents. Fri 30 Apr 2010 15:19:29 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=54#comment109 Ref 98, powermeerkat"His name, just in case, is Barack Husein Obama".The name of the President of the United States is Barack Hussein Obama. If you are an American you should show respect for the office of the presidency. One thing is to disagree with policies and actions, and even express outrage when something happens that we find reprehensible or dangerous to our interests and security; ridiculing, purposely misspelling the middle name of our President time and again for reasons that only a middle school student would understand is something entirely different. Fri 30 Apr 2010 15:13:33 GMT+1 Philly-Mom http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=54#comment108 I wait with baited breath for the Tea Party Goers to instigate a lovely Grande Olde Banana Split... fruity, sweet, divided and a lot of fun at southern parties. Although personally, I'll opt for the a nice salad: Mixed Greens with a few nuts sprinkled in, and perhaps just a few bits of cheese on top? We Americans love our cheesiness. Then, some dried cranberries give it tasty tangy and distinctly North Eastern flavor. Yummy.Is it lunch time yet? I getting a bit hungry... Fri 30 Apr 2010 15:07:28 GMT+1 sean56z http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=53#comment107 Ed Rendell, Governor of Pennsylvania, destroyed commonwealth economy with his political corruption. His top Democratic party leaders are under indictment for misuse of state funds. Rendell could be indicted after leaving office in January. He provides rich contracts to his Friends in Philadelphia for graft payments. Fri 30 Apr 2010 15:05:02 GMT+1 SaintDominick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=53#comment106 Ref 99, powermeerkatAt least Carter did not cut and run the way Reagan did in Lebanon, and refrained from using hyperbole such as warning the American people of potential Grenadian attacks or Nicaraguan contra plans to invade the USA.In any case, this thread is about the influence of the Tea Party and their ability to force moderate Republicans to run as Independents or step aside. What do you think are the consequences of the far right dictating the GOP agenda? Fri 30 Apr 2010 15:04:20 GMT+1 squirrelist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=52#comment105 This post has been Removed Fri 30 Apr 2010 15:03:04 GMT+1 frayedcat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=52#comment104 See -- this is the trait we see sometimes in Tea Party advocation "....pathological sycophancy (i.e. a need to bask in the adulation of others that is so strong that it overrides honesty, decency and self-respect, causing the sufferer not only to defame others with exaggerated falsehoods, but to invent from whole cloth engaging anecdotes about one's own personal and family history...)" It's not racism, it just sometimes resembles it.http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/759724 Fri 30 Apr 2010 14:47:56 GMT+1 ghostofsichuan http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=51#comment103 This post has been Removed Fri 30 Apr 2010 14:39:00 GMT+1 squirrelist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=51#comment102 102: In other words, 100 was 'referred to the moderators' and I have just about had enough of these games again. Fri 30 Apr 2010 14:30:32 GMT+1 squirrelist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=50#comment101 100: Oh, it has has it? For quoting from a blog that supports the Tea Party about Pete Seager and Woody Guthrie and the names it called them--I've been called things much the same, or worse. And parts of a 'review' of an American children's novel promulgating 'American Values'?And after what some people here get away with as far as people who are still alive?. . .Oh, s-s- - . . . forget it.There's one meaning of 'moderation' that obviously isn't in some people's dictionaries. Fri 30 Apr 2010 14:23:07 GMT+1 frayedcat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2010/04/the_tea_party_claims_a_serious.html?page=50#comment100 Doh...I feel a poem coming on....No "U" lies in "Team"But there is a "U" in "US"Find the "US" in you! #98...there are two "s"s in "Hussein", and technically Mr. Obama's name is "Barack Hussein Obama II" although I suppose you doubt the authenticity of his birth certificate and his great Irish American heritage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlzY-hLhndo&feature=relatedI dunno, it seems that often the Tea Party advocates devolve into petulent whinging about their personal dislike of 'others' who don't deserve what 'they' get or aren't entitled to do what "they" do ... it may not be race-based, but it still strikes me as stoopid and immature. If the Tea Party "we" is now a minority, racially, financially, or otherwise, then they may have to resort to non-violent persuasive reasoning .... you know, such as was advocated by the great Dr. King who said "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard, solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think." Fri 30 Apr 2010 14:22:14 GMT+1