Comments for http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html en-gb 30 Sun 20 Apr 2014 19:59:33 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html fluffytale http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=97#comment33 no worries colonel. I don't care what you do.I just don't wish to see you banned as others do;)be defensive .with te attacks you get I know how it feels I suspect you have thickened your skin to insults . Sat 05 Dec 2009 21:48:31 GMT+1 colonelartist http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=94#comment32 Colonel artist. I am glad you made it back. I was wondering if you had felt the raw power of the moderateaters.------------------------------------------------------------------------I dont think moderators will ban me..But next time, I will make sure to write a note,when I take a break due to this or that. Sat 05 Dec 2009 21:11:12 GMT+1 fluffytale http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=91#comment31 Colonel artist. I am glad you made it back. I was wondering if you had felt the raw power of the moderateaters. Sat 05 Dec 2009 20:54:14 GMT+1 colonelartist http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=88#comment30 1.) Internal politics of the United States are responsible for electing the most powerful man on earth.2.) The lives of ordinary Americans are responsible for making that decision3.) American diversity is the most successful at integrating people of different nationalities, ethnic backgrounds and religions. All of them who are Citizens can vote at age eighteen. Those are the ordinary Americans who directly affect the first two, above. And if they don't like what a President is doing at home, rather than abroad, they will vote for a replacement at the appropriate time.-------------------------------------------------------------------------Now, we know who whose heart and mind was won by the americans...Yours!!! Sat 05 Dec 2009 20:48:32 GMT+1 Lord Nathan http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=85#comment29 The trouble with u is that when u looks in the mirror all u sees is "you" Fri 04 Dec 2009 02:36:10 GMT+1 McJakome http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=82#comment28 28. At 02:46am on 03 Dec 2009, U11651887 wrote RE #27.A very cogent analysis. Nothing more need be said. Thu 03 Dec 2009 20:05:46 GMT+1 David Cunard http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=79#comment27 #27. colonelartist: "I dont really understand the concept of outsiders opiniating about the internal issues of a country or how people of that country live..."Then you're posting on the wrong blog, because this one is about America, not another country. And since your mother tongue appears to be other than English, there's no such word as "opinionating"."Give me three good reasons"1.) Internal politics of the United States are responsible for electing the most powerful man on earth.2.) The lives of ordinary Americans are responsible for making that decision3.) American diversity is the most successful at integrating people of different nationalities, ethnic backgrounds and religions. All of them who are Citizens can vote at age eighteen. Those are the ordinary Americans who directly affect the first two, above. And if they don't like what a President is doing at home, rather than abroad, they will vote for a replacement at the appropriate time. Thu 03 Dec 2009 02:46:59 GMT+1 colonelartist http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=76#comment26 Then why bother to have a North America Editor? He's not a political editor but supposed to cover "some thoughts on being a Brit living in the USA, and who knows what else?" The BBC has a number of other correspondents who report about American politics and blogging isn't ordinarily a report on one topic, but day-to-day events. You're relatively new here and if you go back a year or eighteen months, you will find much more diversification about American life and her internal politics. Far more stimulating than a one-note rag. (A musical term.)-----------------------------------------------------------------------What would an outsider be interested in the internal politics of america or why would an ordinary person be interested in its diversification. Give me three good reasons..I dont really understand the concept of outsiders opiniating about the internal issues of a country or how people of that country live... Thu 03 Dec 2009 01:16:28 GMT+1 David Cunard http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=73#comment25 #25. colonelartist: "I dont think people are really interested in how americans live their lives."Then why bother to have a North America Editor? He's not a political editor but supposed to cover "some thoughts on being a Brit living in the USA, and who knows what else?" The BBC has a number of other correspondents who report about American politics and blogging isn't ordinarily a report on one topic, but day-to-day events. You're relatively new here and if you go back a year or eighteen months, you will find much more diversification about American life and her internal politics. Far more stimulating than a one-note rag. (A musical term.) Thu 03 Dec 2009 01:02:30 GMT+1 colonelartist http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=70#comment24 No indeed - they were written long before blogs were created. However, in reality, foreign affairs dominate this blog and ignore American life in general. That's a problem with being posted to Washington: the BBC should post its 'North America Editor' to some place where politics is not the be-all and end-all of life.-------------------------------------------------------------------------I dont think people are really interested in how americans live their lives. We are not anthropoligists, we are ordinary human beings..who have no need to get to know how americans live their lives.. Thu 03 Dec 2009 00:08:27 GMT+1 David Cunard http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=67#comment23 #23. "Mark is going to exhaust you into silence about this issue."If he has any professional acumen, then he will see how many regular contributors to this blog have decided either to leave or post infrequently. A one-topic blog about America - Afghanistan being only tangential to it - is not going to attract more readers or posters. Comments about that country can be found and read in many other publications and the world doesn't need yet another column debating the subject. Variety is not only the spice of life, but necessary in popular journalism."However its not written in the bible or in your consitution that you have to write on every topic of this blog."No indeed - they were written long before blogs were created. However, in reality, foreign affairs dominate this blog and ignore American life in general. That's a problem with being posted to Washington: the BBC should post its 'North America Editor' to some place where politics is not the be-all and end-all of life. Wed 02 Dec 2009 23:22:16 GMT+1 colonelartist http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=64#comment22 It's a pity that Mark cannot focus on the internal workings of the United States rather than his preoccupation with foreign affairs. The 12% who live under the poverty line simply don't care about Afghanistan but rather where the next meal, rent and so forth is coming from. That truly is America's problem. If Mr Obama can't make a change there, then he's doomed, regardless of Afghanistan, Iran or Iraq.------------------------------------------------------------------------Mark is going to exhaust you into silence about this issue..by his bulldozing of so many topics about president and afghanistan, that for the next four yrs you will physically become sick at the mention of the word, afghanistan....this is one of the way to acheive or bring saturation point..However its not written in the bible or in your consitution that you have to write on every topic of this blog.. Wed 02 Dec 2009 19:43:07 GMT+1 fluffytale http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=61#comment21 21 DC well I'm in agreement. This is all the focus but really. as if there isn't anything else going on.20 or by encouraging them to grow what they used to .POT. and them buying that;) Wed 02 Dec 2009 18:20:09 GMT+1 David Cunard http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=58#comment20 #18. maria-ashot: "David_Cunard: I entirely concur with you about the other pressing problems Americans would like to see addressed. We have right now a genuinely dire situation with poverty in the States."It's a pity that Mark cannot focus on the internal workings of the United States rather than his preoccupation with foreign affairs. The 12% who live under the poverty line simply don't care about Afghanistan but rather where the next meal, rent and so forth is coming from. That truly is America's problem. If Mr Obama can't make a change there, then he's doomed, regardless of Afghanistan, Iran or Iraq. Wed 02 Dec 2009 18:09:52 GMT+1 Lord Nathan http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=55#comment19 Maria, "There are reasons why some societies reach for development, and others resist any kind of change. It is called "backwardness": it is a real, honest-to-goodness vice, and when mixed with weapons, narcotics business, human trafficking, child rape, oppression of women it does indeed become a grave threat to those not backward."And who has provided the weaponry and the market for narcotics (not to mention the market for the human traffic)? A large source of the warlords' power could be removed by the simple strategy of purchasing the entire opium crop directly from the small farmers at a price marginally above the pittance they currently get.Who has the right (or hubristicly-imagined duty) to impose change on another culture? Wed 02 Dec 2009 13:53:13 GMT+1 Lord Nathan http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=52#comment18 Maria "Winning the war is not about "credibility": it is about stamping out while they can still be stamped out the seeds of a much bigger conflagration we would all much prefer to avoid.It is about not allowing mediaeval Muslim fanaticism to thrive, gain recruits, procreate, establish itself as any kind of viable institution on the planet. That is the mission here:""Stamping out the seeds" is and has been more like shaking the plant so hard the eeds are spread as widely as possible, and then treading them into the soil to aid germination....a rather unfortunate metaphor, I fear. Wed 02 Dec 2009 13:39:07 GMT+1 Maria Ashot http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=49#comment17 Hercule Triathlon Sevinien, of course the figures are unreliable. Thank you for your details. Unreliable figures have been part of military operations probably since the times of Caesar -- actually, no, probably much further back than that.We work with what is available. It is still grim. David_Cunard: I entirely concur with you about the other pressing problems Americans would like to see addressed. We have right now a genuinely dire situation with poverty in the States. The First Lady has sent out emails appealing for participation in a "Feed Thy Neighbor" initiative. This is certainly a worthy cause -- but how many will actually be in a position to do much?And while someone helps with food, who will help with the rent? With shelter? In the winter months?No, the bigger issues are not being addressed. They are not being addressed with anything like the deliberate, focused, thoughtful process that has been invested into the Afghanistan crisis. Perhaps that is because America's problems with current economic distress are perceived as being problems only for Americans or at most their immediate neighbours (although of course they have a ripple effect on other economies). The presence of soldiers from other nations in a war launched by the White House on what most Europeans never forgot about being extremely challenging terrain is driving an intense desire to simply end it -- and if Afghanistan implodes, then so be it. You are right in the sense that there is not much any of us can do about this, anymore. Afghanistan in complete chaos, full of loose weapons & ordnance, a culture of cruelty overwhelmed with utter despair will not just obligingly sit there within its own borders, stewing in its own juices.It will spill over; there will be even more refugees; Pakistan may experience even greater stresses -- with implications for opportunistic militancy in Kashmir and even further. Radical militant extremists in Iran will be encouraged to take further steps.That is where we are today. Efficient, unhesitating tactical strikes might actually erode jihadism significantly if the p.c. crew will just park their commentary for a few months and stop acting like everyone on the planet is an exact spiritual twin of their first sweetheart, ergo "harmless."There are reasons why some societies reach for development, and others resist any kind of change. It is called "backwardness": it is a real, honest-to-goodness vice, and when mixed with weapons, narcotics business, human trafficking, child rape, oppression of women it does indeed become a grave threat to those not backward. Wed 02 Dec 2009 12:19:54 GMT+1 MagicKirin http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=47#comment16 ref #6 space_adjutant wrote:I trust Obama. He will do what is in the best interest of our nation. Why would he want to do otherwise? Sometimes I wonder, as I read online blogs, if I'm the only optimist left in the world as even my fellow Americans pray for the failure of America._________________It's not wanting Obama to fail. Unless you are a Michael Moore/Move on type of liberal who believes the U.S should havbe no more international influence or say than atotalirian regime like Venezuela or Myramar. Most of us have seen a weak man who many people thought was capable of te toughest job in the world.He is a weak minded individual who should do the world a favor and not run again because he has been a disaster of Carter like magnitude. Wed 02 Dec 2009 09:57:52 GMT+1 David Cunard http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=44#comment15 #8. HERCULE_SAVINIEN: "just how festive does one think the families of the Marines who will be in Afghanistan before the Holdays even begin are feeling Dave?"And how festive do you think the larger numbers of the poor in America are feeling? Soldiers volunteer for duty and it is a sad fact that duty includes the possibility of dying. Without meaning to appear unappreciative, at least their families eat well and have shelter - there are hundreds of thousands who do not; roughly 12% of Americans live below the poverty threshold. Just look at some downtown areas and you'll understand - that is, if you live in the United States.By the way - I'm not a "Dave" but always, always use my full, given name. Wed 02 Dec 2009 05:34:54 GMT+1 Andy Post http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=41#comment14 Anybody else detect a veiled threat to Pakistan inherent in this strategy?The President this evening made the point that U.S. national security is at stake and that we cannot allow the threat to persist. (I agree.)Then he says that we can only afford a year year war. (Truth hurts.)What if, say, two years on the Pakistani Army has stalled and doesn't look to be even trying to start again?He's put himself in danger of being painted into a corner, no? Wed 02 Dec 2009 04:47:40 GMT+1 Pass Torian http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=38#comment13 Predictable speech. Predictable commitment. Predictable expectations. The outcome? The expected success will never come. There are many reasons for that.One cannot build love with foreign armed battalions implementing alien ideas (like western style democracy or law and order)Afghanistan is not Vietnam, that is true. But Afghanistan is neither Iraq. The only analogy that can be drawn by comparing Afghanistan to Iraq is that both are quite efficient quicksands for American (US) economy. The country is much bigger then Iraq. The terrain is much more diversified. The country is surrounded by neighbors that are generally distrustful of Americans and Europeans. Logistics, delivery of war material are uncertain in the longer run. It is also nothing but prolonged, costly drain on economies of other occupying participants.Neighbors of that region do not want America's stronghold in that part of the world. What could guarantee that a pretense, such as employed against Saddam, will not be used in the future to invade them from across the border? There is no guarantee that after Obama there won't be another cowboy in charge with his "God told me so" vision. The neighbors thus will continue (I have no doubts that it is going right now) to provide limited yet covert support to Taleban and local resistance forces to keep the "flame" going. And that flame is awfully costly now. For comparison - In Vietnam - daily cost of keeping one US soldier $120 v.s. VietCong man - $1.50. We have statistics for yearly employment of one US soldier in Afghanistan. - 1 million dollars or roughly daily $2740. Taleban fighter? Statistics are unknown but judging by the poverty of the region and free ammo supplies, costs are perhaps still the same as of Vietcong fighter. No wonder, US economy is faltering under this reckless war mongering. United States diminishing economic power status is already acknowledged and accepted (???) The country is behind other developed societies when it comes to health care of its citizens. It is no longer a magnet attracting mass exodus of scientific brains to its shores. It is the country in a dire economic distress and the future still remains dim. Under such conditions what could possibly draw other nations to be led by a failing giant? Military power? It is also waning, as we can deduce by frequent worries about China (PRC) scientific and military developments. In this context, prolonged participation of others in our Afghan adventure is also highly questionable. In short, our presence in Afghanistan is the continuing drain on economy and little if anything will be accomplished. We should cut our war losses, concentrate on repairs at home, revive our industries ( here Obama failed miserably - look were the stimulus went!), and start to look again like a leader to the world, the envy of others, and not the laughing stock that we are slowly becoming. Wed 02 Dec 2009 04:06:55 GMT+1 shiveringofforgottenenemies http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=35#comment12 So, after three months of chin-scratching that's "the Plan" eh? In the past three months there has been MASSIVE and secret diplomatic maneuvering. Obama talks about Afghanistan as if we are fighting and dying to leave these poor sods a viable government? As if we are combating international terror somewhere other than our own backyard? As if in 2011, maybe 2012 Johnny will come marching home again with flags flying!It's like stage magic..the focus is on Afghanistan, the trick is AFPAK..or more rightly AFPAKIND since we seem to have been kicked out of bed in Pakistan and are now wooing India. India at least has no sympathy for the Moslems and booted them out as soon as they gained independence.Sure for 8 years Bush ignored AFPAK, in years to come, that will probably be looked upon as one of his best decisions! While we publicly failed at nation-building and stabilizing in Iraq, at least our backing of the dictator Mussaref and the ineffective and corrupt Karzai was not an open scandal.Obama thought he was going to march in there and community organize them! Hah!The notion of creating Fort Apaches and sending the Afghan Army out in the role of the 7th Cavalry is LUDICROUS...and yet with a bit of showmanship, speaking at West Point, Obama, in measured tones is presenting his latest bit of performance art! Wed 02 Dec 2009 03:50:45 GMT+1 HERCULE_SAVINIEN http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=32#comment11 A THOUSAND YEAR WARThe [IFF] Islamic Freedom Fighter is not a child waiting to be rescued by the British Empire, and they like The Chinese First Emperor, and Quote The shrill blast is blowing, Chilly the burn; Your champion is going-Not to return, unquote. The Officers of Pan Ch'ao, quote Standing as we do in peril of our lives, we will follow our commander {Osama Bin Laden} through life and death unquote.And, the one thing that will help the [IFF] are the loyal peoples of Islam and their spy network, the Nazis felt the sting of the French Spy Network.Make no mistake, this action is a total mistake The American-Israeli Empire has far under estimate the resolve of a people who are now fighting more and more on desperate ground. It is better to die a free man than under the yoke of the Empire's Tyrany of The Bottom Line.HERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN Wed 02 Dec 2009 03:10:58 GMT+1 David http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=29#comment10 Excellent post Jumper, and moderators, um this Hercule thingy, please... Wed 02 Dec 2009 02:54:18 GMT+1 Jumper http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=26#comment9 An old adage is that when seeking success at something, begin by imitating something similar that was successful. War is is probably as old as hunting. It is well understood. Several systems of principles of war have been distilled from centuries of accumulated knowledge. Based on what you've provided, what the news media has provided since Monday evening and the news tidbits about what units are being deployed, it is possible to benchmark what is known about the plan. From what is known, President Obama's plan has been meticulously crafted to take into account all nine of the U.S. principles of war. It also matches well the ten principles of war used by the British military, and falls within the scope of the principles of war used by the Canadian military. It shows awareness of Mao's principles of guerrilla warfare and it is both aware of and avoids the weaknesses of the Russian principles of war. The surprise is already in place. It's subtle. A key understanding of military surprise is that it is something unanticipated from which the opponent cannot recover. It looks like the guiding principles in this engagement will be the principle of mass used jointly with the principle of economy of force supported by a superior ability to maneuver. In terms of economy of force, there seems to have been careful thought about individual unit missions down to lower operational levels to maximize effectiveness. This will also should result in unmatched coordination and flexibility. As local security is achieved for local populations, the local population will understand that they have 18 months in which to develop the ability to sustain their own security. There is something unique in the unspoken American attitude arising from this plan, which is, "If you force us to deploy for war against you, we will kill you." This is a very, very lethal force that is being deployed with a very clear mission. The clarity of the mission should also enhance international coordination and effectiveness. The amount of diplomatic and civil affairs coordination that has taken place to sustain stabilization after it is achieved, is already unprecedented for recent decades. The time taken to study and prepare for the launching tonight was well spent. Will it work? Success is always in the details. What we can see is that the details have been attended to so thoroughly, in what was presented tonight, and as best we can tell behind the scenes, that we can at least be assured a solid foundation has been laid for success. These radical Islamists have sought and gained a reputation as very lethal opponents that insist they cannot be defeated and that they intend to force their distorted view of Islam on all of us. Repeatedly, these al Queida inspired Islamists have demonstrated they will do this with violent force. By defeating them, in their home quarters, they lose significant legitimacy and that defeat serves as a deterrent. William Golding wrote, "Lord of the Flies," about fifty years ago to try and explain allegorically how a civilized Germany devolved into what it did. Just about every English-speaking school child was required to read it. The book ends with the last boy representing democracy about to be killed on the beach. He is saved, and his attackers stopped by a British naval officer. The point Golding made is that there are those who will work to violently overthrow a peaceful democracy, which is why a democratic people must maintain, and be willing to use, military force. Apparently the Taliban want to see this principle in action. Jumper Wed 02 Dec 2009 02:40:34 GMT+1 HERCULE_SAVINIEN http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=23#comment8 (U.S. EMPIRE): (68K) (800KIA) (north, east and Kabul)Combat forces come in the same two varieties;[1. Active Duty Military]EMPIRE: Troop Level Increase the prior approved addition of “Empire” Army Division of (17K), Seventeen-thousand, by another (4K) Four-thousand to Army Corp level, bringing the “Empire” total to a Field Army size of (60K) Sixty-thousand. (We know that the “Empire” military had requested an additional (2) Two Corps, of (30K) Thirty-Thousand, which is now approved, for a Field Army size of (90K) Ninety-Thousand. The Empire counts it (KIA) in Tens of Thousands and doesn’t blink an eye, and will commit whatever amount of troops for as long as it see’s fit. Now, as American commanders are asking for more troops, with the last American deployment, the number of Western troops there is already about the same as the Soviets had there in (1987). In (1988), the Soviets finally woke up, cut their losses and quickly [retreated] leaving billions worth of armaments to rust along with, (14K) Fourteen-Thousand, Russian graves. The support for the (Af-Pak) war from the Main Street American population below (50%) Fifty-Percent, with support decreasing monthly, United States wants to move a combat force of about (45k) Forty-Five-Thousand men from Iraq to Afghanistan -- in part as replacements for troops rotated out and in part as reinforcements. The American public, which had broadly supported Obama's determination to focus on Afghanistan instead of Iraq, has begun to question the wisdom of the continued U.S. commitment, the Afghan war was deemed [not worth fighting] by (51%), Fifty-One percent of respondents in a recent Washington Post-ABC News poll. [2. Contract Mercenaries]Afghanistan Estimated number [165K] One-hundred Sixty-five thousand quasi-military armed forces, that have been contracted for since 20 January 2009, in Afghanistan.Pakistan Estimated number [75K] Seventy-Five thousand.[PLUS COMBAT SUPPORT SERVICES]The troops in combat support and services support come in two main varieties: [1. Active Duty Military]: [13K] Thirteen Thousand[2. Contractor]: Estimated [2K] Two-Thousand, The people cooking and washing dishes at Pizza Hut at Bagram Air Base, as well as the drivers who haul the pizza dough.[THE TRUE NUMBERS ARE UNKNOWN]Only [40%]Forty-percent of the true story of the number and amounts of treasure being spent are really know, hidden under various obscure bills.HERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN Wed 02 Dec 2009 02:13:55 GMT+1 HERCULE_SAVINIEN http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=20#comment7 David-Cunard Says:Now that we know the numbers, the why, when and how, couldn't we move on to something other than Afghanistan? America's mind is on the Festive Season, not a conflict half-way around the world.****************************************************************TRIATHLON REPLYS:It would be a simple thing to move on, but just how festive does one think the families of the Marines who will be in Afghanistan before the Holdays even begin are feeling Dave?HERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN Wed 02 Dec 2009 02:10:36 GMT+1 Maria Ashot http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=17#comment6 "Nato's credibility" should not be what is at stake, nor is it.Nato's credibility is a very vulnerable commodity -- has been for some time.What is at stake: making moderation again the preferred form of practicing Islam. Because what has happened since the first mujaheds were trained by Zbiggy's boys (cf. "Charlie Wilson's War") is that the "cool, chic, admirable" face of Islam has become, for far too many Muslims: jihadism, militancy, extreme "hyper-observant" Islam.The mere "romance" of tribal folk with primitive beliefs (perverting moderate interpretations of Islam to suit their own purposes and ambitions) "holding their own" against the most sophisticated military forces of our time encourages extremism. So what is at stake is not Natos' "face" -- it is the possibility of having a moderate Islam of any kind that can be safely viewed as not ultimately threatening and subversive. Oh, yes, the governments of the Nato powers keep telling us, even as they ask for more soldiers and funding, that "Islam is not the problem" -- but the suicide bombers in the marketplace, the attacks in Mumbai and Ft. Hood and now in Russia, and this never-ending story of War In Afghanistan, tell a different truth. Winning the war is not about "credibility": it is about stamping out while they can still be stamped out the seeds of a much bigger conflagration we would all much prefer to avoid. It is about not allowing mediaeval Muslim fanaticism to thrive, gain recruits, procreate, establish itself as any kind of viable institution on the planet. That is the mission here: that the Commander-in-Chief is using language that implies a defensive stance, implying some kind of moral vulnerability in Nato's unambiguous position, is actually rather worrisome.He should be saying something much simpler, that anyone would agree with: "This is not the kind of enemy we can possibly allow to continue to exist on earth. Period." It is an enemy 100% resolved and sworn to destroy Civilisation. Not any kind of wiggle room there! Wed 02 Dec 2009 01:52:10 GMT+1 adjutant http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=14#comment5 I trust Obama. He will do what is in the best interest of our nation. Why would he want to do otherwise? Sometimes I wonder, as I read online blogs, if I'm the only optimist left in the world as even my fellow Americans pray for the failure of America. Wed 02 Dec 2009 01:50:43 GMT+1 David Cunard http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=11#comment4 Now that we know the numbers, the why, when and how, couldn't we move on to something other than Afghanistan? America's mind is on the Festive Season, not a conflict half-way around the world. Wed 02 Dec 2009 01:45:35 GMT+1 HERCULE_SAVINIEN http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=8#comment3 ADDITIONAL [EU] TROOPS TO [AF-PAK] DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATHEUROPEAN PRESENT TROOP LEVELS In addition to an Army Division size contingent of (20,315) Twenty-thousand-three-hundred fifteen foreign troops in the theater of operation with most setting withdrawal dates, and additional [10K] Ten-thousand upon demand of the Media Messiah Imperial President of the Empire, don't hold your breath. AUSTRALIA: TROOP LEVEL: (1,070) (KIA/UNK) (Southern Afghanistan) are fighting along side of Denmark/Netherlands troops on their own in an increasingly violent battle."BELGIUM: TROOP LEVEL: (535-565) (KIA/UNK) said it will add between (35 -65) Thirty-five to Sixth-five military trainers to a force of (500) Five-Hundred, and send (2) two more (F-16) jet fighters, bringing the total number it has sent to (6) six.CANADA: TROOP LEVEL: (KIA/128) Canadian forces stationed in Kandahar have lost (128) of their soldiers with the support in Canada of the (Af-Pak) Blood for Oil War, at about (35%) Thirty-Five Percent, with support decreasing monthly, Canada is considering withdrawal The Canadian government figures in Ottawa have announced and insist that that they intend to withdraw (Canadian Combat Troops Contingents) by the year (July 2011?). Here’s the [BUT] Canada's contribution in (2012) [COULD OR WILL?] still include a sizable military mission in Kandahar [IF] General Stanley McChrystal has the strategy right, [MORE MONEY, MORE TIME, MORE TROOPS, MORE MISSION CREEP, MORE ESCALATION, MORE UNVEILING OF REPEATED NEW STRATEGIES, IF I GET MORE, THEN I CAN DO MORE.]CZECHOSLOVAKIA: TROOP LEVEL: (KIA/UNK) (Wardak)DENMARK/NETHERLANDS: TROOP LEVEL: (1,650) (KIA/UNK) (Southern Afghanistan/Uruzgan) are fighting along side of Australian troops on their own in an increasingly violent battle, Denmark Considering Withdrawal. The Dutch government has announced that they intend to withdraw their contingents by the year (2011).FRANCE: TROOP LEVEL: (1,515) (KIA/UNK) (Kabul) Declined the request for additional troops, President Sarkozy France would not be sending reinforcements to bolster its existing force northeast of Kabul, but was [ready to do more] in the field of police training and economic aid. GERMANY: TROOP LEVEL: (3,500-4,100) (KIA 35+) (Northern Afghanistan/Kunduz) Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, “We have a great responsibility here. We want to carry our share of the responsibility, militarily, in the area of civil reconstruction and in police training." (600) Six-hundred from Germany that was already in the pipeline, sources indicated that the Europeans would be expected to help by providing additional forces, more reconstruction assistance, and increased funding. The Obama administration wants to wait until after the general election in Germany on [Sept. 27] before officially announcing its wishes.HUNGARY: TROOP LEVEL: UNKNOWN (KIA/UNK) (Baghlan)ITALY: (2,880) (KIA/UNK) (Western Afghanistan, Herat & Kabul) Italy Considering Withdrawal. JAPAN: Both men mentioned the stickiest issue in relations—the relocation of Marine Corps Air Station Futenma on the southern island of Okinawa—but offered no details. Hatoyama has suggested moving the base off Okinawa altogether, while the U.S. wants to move it to a more remote location on the island, as part of a 2006 agreement on relocating 47,000 American troops in Japan. .-Japan relations. Hatoyama said he would end Japan's Indian Ocean refueling mission that supports U.S.-led forces in Afghanistan and to review an agreement on relocating American troops in Japan that Washington thought was settled three years ago. Hatoyama noted that Japan will no longer refuel ships that supply Afghanistan, but he promised aid for Afghan civilian needs such as schools, agriculture and police. He also vowed to cooperate with the United States on combatting climate change and nuclear proliferation.LITHUANIA: TROOP LEVEL: (KIA/UNK) UNKNOWN (Ghor) NETHERLANDS: TROOP LEVEL: [1,650] (KIA/UNK)(Southern Afghanistan)NEW ZEALAND: TROOP LEVEL: UNKNOWN (KIA/UNK) (Bamyam)NORWAY: TROOP LEVEL: UNKNOWN (KIA/UNK) (Faryak)SWEDEN: TROOP LEVEL: UNKNOWN, (KIA/UNK) (Balkh)TURKEY: TROOP LEVEL: UNKNOWN (KIA/UNK) (Wardak)POLAND: (1,100) (KIA/UNK) (Mobile) Poland Considering Withdrawal.SPAIN: TROOP LEVEL: (12-600) (KIA/UNK) (Badghs) said ahead of the summit that it would add a small contingent of (12-600) twelve to six-hundred to help train Afghan army officers? UNITED KINGDOM: TROOP LEVEL:(8,600-9K) (KIA 212)(Kabul,Kandahar, Helmand) British troops are stationed in Lashkar Gah, the capital of Helmand, province, a Taliban stronghold and center of opium poppy production where the leaders of a provincial reconstruction team, a unit of about (160) British, U.S., Afghan and other civilians and military officers where working to rebuild the economy, improve security and increase effective government. The British have identified what they call ("the golden 500") -- government and other officials beginning with Mangal whom they want to stay in their positions in Helmand so progress can continue. The (“TEMPORARY UPLIFT”) of between (500-700) five to seven hundred increasing Britain’s military strength there to about (9K) Nine-Thousand, for a four month period until British elections to be held on [August 20] , with a planned withdrawal of all British Forces upon completion of the elections, where support for the war is waning. The British has lost (212 KIA) Killed In Action of their contingent. The death toll appears to have brought about a significant change in the way the British view the military effort in Afghanistan. In an editorial published in July, in which it predicted the British public would soon decide the war is not worth the casualties, the Observer newspaper wrote: [Lives saved by bringing soldiers home will seem a surer benefit than the unproven hypothesis of preventing terrorism with a war thousands of miles away.]HERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN Wed 02 Dec 2009 01:41:19 GMT+1 frayedcat http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=5#comment2 All I can think of is what about Saudi Arabia 'n 'at? US is obliged to re-stabilize Afghanistan but it won't "root" out the problem I don't think -the money-men are going to have to call off the extremists.http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/27/opinion/scrutinizing-the-saudi-connection.htmlhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/events/newsnight/1645527.stmhttp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/30/world/main565782.shtmlhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/31/AR2009073103764.html Wed 02 Dec 2009 01:39:34 GMT+1 democracythreat http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=2#comment1 "what's at stake is the security of our Allies, and the common security of the world."So therefore if the world is insecure in three years, Obama has failed,What an idiot. What a hard core fool. He has set himself up hopelessly. Everyone with a pentagon contract must be holding their guts and laughing so hard the eyes hurt. Wed 02 Dec 2009 01:35:29 GMT+1 merckx345 http://wwwsearch.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/12/first_glimpse_of_obamas_messag.html?page=0#comment0 An interesting strategy, deploy an additional 30,000 troops as a stepping stone towards withdrawal .I wonder if the people in the USA have the stomach for such a long term strategy, let alone the political will. The problem of course is similar to that of solving 'Global Warming', one country on their own, even with the very best of intentions and well directed efforts can never make a dent. A concerted effort needs to be made by all nations. In Afghanistan the topography is such that unless surrounding countries join in fully, there will always be places for the Taliban to hide, relocate and continue.In addition, it seems to me that not enough thought is being given to the economic situation in Afghanistan, the farmers and so forth, the growing of poppies etc. A workable economic dynamic is missing. I was truly shocked when the Americans invaded Iraq and I discovered along with millions of others that they had not thought through the problem with regard to the vacuum left when they returned home. Middle Eastern countries are unable to introduce stable systems of government quickly or effectively in such circumstances. Afghanistan, for a range of reasons, will be just the same. With my work I have travelled to many countries and spent time in the Middle and Far East. When you meet these various cultures, live with them and listen to their points of view; you begin to understand, a little, the complexity of these situations and how difficult realistically it will be to find a workable solution. Wed 02 Dec 2009 01:24:18 GMT+1