Comments for en-gb 30 Mon 22 Dec 2014 03:44:33 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at acenavigator This post has been Removed Fri 26 Mar 2010 16:18:12 GMT+1 MOHI IT IWS NOT AUSTRALIA ALONE THAT INDIANS ARE ATTACKED. IN GULF THERE ARE MORE ATTACKS. BUT THE NEWS DOES NOT TRICKLE OUT DUE TO VARIOUS REASONS. INDIANS BEING HARD WORKING IT IS QUESTION OF JEALOUSY. SO WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT. THERE NO TREATMENT FOR THAT. KEEP AWAY FROM ATTACKERS AND TROUBLE SPOTS. Thu 18 Mar 2010 10:35:25 GMT+1 K Dwayne I went looking into the main incidents, and it gives a better view of the facts. I'm not meaning to point the blame at any ethnicity. Unlike the Indian media, I don't believe street crime by one type of person represents the rest.There are two main unsolved cases; one, of course, the murder of Nitin Garg, in what I am told is an ethnically diverse area of Melbourne. The other was last year when a petrol bomb was thrown through the window of a property in Harris Park in Sydney resulting in burns to 30% of Rajesh Kumar's body. Although ethnicity is not known as to who threw the petrol bomb (I don't believe anyone was arrested because there was no clear suspect), the fact is the Indian community later held a meeting at a diner to talk about getting aid to this mans family and upon leaving two Indians were attacked by Lebanese. There were reprisals by Indians against Lebanese, and I gather this escalated in the Sydney protests last year. Apparently the inter-ethnic rivalry had been growing in that region or a few years.There were 3 murder cases (4 fatalities) that led to the media accusing Australia of racism that have resulted in criminal charges. The most recent 2 (Navdeep Singh and Kanwaljit Singh) were murdered in Perth, and India's press were relatively muted in response since it was known earlier the charged was an Indian. This didn't stop the Indian media from including a racial slant to the few stories they had, and for some Indian community leaders to petition for action against the Australian government. Ranjodh Singh is another murder victim, and the leading suspects all along were Indian. Dr Zhongjun Cao was a victim going back to 2008, it was a racial attack and it is related (despite him being Chinese not Indian) by virtue of the fact that the perpetrators specifically went out "curry bashing" (is this the entire basis for the claims of "curry bashing" in Australia?). The gang were described as a mixture of Italian, Asian and Pakistani ethnicities. John Caratozzol seems to be the only known name due to the ages of the perpetrators?Of the remaining high profiled cases: Jaspreet Singh, set himself alight in a botched attempt at insurance fraud despite the world over branding us as racist for attacking him!; Sukhraj Singh and other Indians attacked in an Indian grocery store in a racially motivated attack (the perpetrators went around asking "are you Indian?") by a gang of Somalis (including Zakarie Hussein); and finally, Sourabh Sharma, the man whose bruised face was shown on the front cover of an issue of Outlook titled "Why the Aussies hate us" (which went on to say "evidence that 'curry-bashing' is becoming a fun game for white Australians"), was attacked on a Melbourne train by a group of youths who are too young to be named, and surveillance footage shown in the Indian press. Going by a link I found online which claims to cite a local newspaper article, which also quotes Sharma's surprise, the main perpetrator there was another Indian.There have been other violence, but nothing as inflammatory. There have been white perpetrators among these other incidents (some, but not all, racially motivated), which would probably be quite common and largely ignored by press in most major cities as none of the attacks that I know of resulted in no serious injury.Aside from this, I remember reading some Asians blaming our racism for the savage murders of the Lin family in Sydney, while I believe the investigation is looking into links to organized crime that links back to China. Meanwhile, while Vietnamese Van Thanh Rudd put on a KKK outfit on Australia Day, in essence to broadcast to the world that we are white supremacists, a group of Asians I am told were responsible for an attack on another two Indians... Thu 18 Feb 2010 17:02:58 GMT+1 Pankaj In south Asia ,India has no good relationship with his all neighbours country.India has take over more than 72 different different boder lands of Nepal .He has fight with Pakistan aswell as Bangaladesha .India had given support to terrorist group in Srilanka .India has almost capture to small mountain country to Bhutan and in bhutan 3 years ago they killed so many Bhutnis nepali people and thousends of them they put preason. In Indai recent Jambu and Kasmir indian goverment killing to Mushlim people and student.Every day you can see these kinds of newes in Indian media .Is that not racist? Most off Indian student grow up in that culture. they want to dominate other people.they did not respect to other culture and law.They have no social behaive.They want to interfare in other life.So Indian students are being attacked.i want to give suggestion to some Indian student and goverment and specially to Indian medai it is not south Asia ,where your domeniate to other people and samll country .It is AUSTRALIA this is big ,powerfull and very developed country and Ausi people are very good and strong .If you think dominate to them you get this reasult.I think it is ver good lesson for you so make good relationship with all people. Fri 12 Feb 2010 09:27:40 GMT+1 bruce wen leong This post has been Removed Tue 09 Feb 2010 07:11:40 GMT+1 Jono Certainly Vivek, thank you for your apology, I apreciate it.You are of course right that hatred and violence resolves nothing.The thing is Vivek, as I've tried to explain, this issue is far more complex than you imagine.There are so many assumptions on the part of the Indian media and sections of the Indian community in regard to this that are demonstratably false.For example, the assumption that those committing crimes against Indian nationals are white.If you did some research, you would find that in the neighbourhoods where most of these assaults and robberies have taken place, there is a broad variety of ethnic groups.In Footscray, for example (the suburb Nitin Garg was robbed and murdered in), there ethnic make up of the population is less than half anglo-celtic Australian. It is heavily populated by newer groups, who have emigrated here quite recently for the most part, predominantly lebanese or middle-eastern, pacific islander, African, eastern or southern european (Italian, Greek, Balkan) and Indian.For a variety of complicated reasons, these immigrant groups are disporportinatley represented in groups of (usually young and male) criminals. These are not organised criminals for the most part, simply groups of disaffected youth, gangs. The point of that is that much of the violence that has been inflicted on Indian nationals (along with other people of different ethnicity) is being inflicted by people of other ethnicites other than white anglo-celtic Australian. When you stop to think about that, it makes the accusation of white Australian racism seem quite absurd.If a young Lebanese, Pacific Islander or Sudanese man punches a young Indian man and takes his wallet, then is that still a racist attack? Because that is the circumstances of alot of these criminal incidents.Also, several of the more shocking and major incidents in recent months have turned out to have (alledgedly) been commited by Indian nationals against their fellow countrymen. This actually makes perfect sense and ties in with standard criminology studies, which suggest that most murders and major violent crimes are actually committed by people who know the victim, not by strangers.None of that is to suggest anything about different ethnic groups, merely to demonstrate that the assumption on that part of the Indian media that these are racist attacks by young white Australian males is completely absurd.In regards to your hope that immigrants to Australia are treated fairly, I hope so too.The thing is, Vivek, every single Australian, other than aborigines, is an immigrant of a kind, since none of us have been here more than a few generations.We are a nation of immigrants.Here are some interesting statistics and anecdotes for you :6 million, or roughly 25% of people living in this country were born overseas. Imagine that mate, 1 in every 4 people I meet in a day wasn't born in Australia.Closer to 50% of the population were either born overseas or had a parent who was (including me). So even if we aren't from another country, half of our parents are.There are communities of people in Australia from over 140 different countries. We have groups of people, some groups in the millions, others just in the few thousands, from every populated continent on Earth, and from almost 75% of the countries of the world.As an example of a typical work place, in my department, at my workplace, there are (just in my department) 3 Indians, 1 Pakistani, 2 New Zealanders, 3 Vietnamese, 2 Lebanese, 3 Chinese, 1 Thai, 3 English, 1 American, 1 Tongan, 2 Phillipinos, 1 Russian, 1 Serbian, 1 Indian-Fijian, 1 Jordanian, 1 Bahaman and 1 Chilean, along with about a dozen anglo-celtic people born in Australia and about half a dozen other Australian born people of non anglo-celtic descent.Australia is a melting pot of cultures and nationalities mate, there's no real way to be openly racist. Tue 09 Feb 2010 04:28:16 GMT+1 vivek malhotra Jono,I apologize for my comments but you have to admit that this kind of hatred and violence does doe not resolve anything. I hope the Indian education system improves to educate their youth and the Australians will let the immigrants live happily and contribute positively to the society. Mon 08 Feb 2010 22:28:07 GMT+1 Jono Australia is the world's 14th largest economy. It is one of the world's biggest exporters of resources, and boast a trillion dollar economy. That's only 200 billion less than the Indian economy, and considering there are only 22 million Australians, and 1 billion Indians, we seem to be doing ok.It is the only major western economy not to go into recession.We are located just to the south of Asia, the largest, most heavily populated and fastest growing region of the world.We are hardly isolated or irrelevant, despite your ignorant, patronising attitude, which seems to be driven by some kind of nationalist pride.What you're actually ignoring Vivek, is that the vast majority of Indian "students" who come to Australia, aren't here to become educated.Most of them come and complete tertiary courses in hairdressing or cooking, and their sole motivation is to obtain residency, so that they can live out their lives here.It has nothing to do with education and everything to do with them wanting to move to this country, to pursue better economic opportunities in a country with things like lower crime rate, less corruption, better social services and lower unemployment.The fact is, most Indians who come to Australia aren't students at all, they have come here to become Australians, and there's now almost 300,000 of themWhich is fine, they are welcome. Sun 07 Feb 2010 23:27:17 GMT+1 vivek malhotra To resolve the situation of Indian bashing in Australia will require tough diplomatic decisions, and changes in the Indian educational system. The Indian PM should to call his counterpart in Australia and ask him to admit the problem, intervene and resolve it at whatever the cost. At the same time, it might also be worth looking at the reasons for all this mess. One big question is why are Indian students drawn to less than desirable universities in Australia? Why can't the Indian Universities provide better education. Clearly, not every one can attend an IIT, AIIMS or one of the schools for management studies. But then most of the students going to Australia are not reading for Engineering or Medicine. Indian Universities need to improve their curriculums, hire more qualified professors and show that they have the capacity, the interest and the intellect to train todays youth, and willing to change for the future. This is a big investment but absolutely essential; it could change the face of India. Australia and its citizens should also realize that their contribution to society is very little. There are many successful Australians in science and literature but they have made their careers elsewhere. Even their cricket players are earning better than they could ever dream, by playing in the local indian cricket teams. Australia produces decent wine (certainly not of the first class ranking), exports coal and iron, but to my knowledge has not produced anything of great technological value. There record on the treatment of the Aboriginal people isn't anything to be proud of either. Is the attack on Indians now ( and other minorities in the future) finally a realization of their poor past, less than decent present and the obvious lack of a decent future? Australian government and its citizens need to think about these issues. In sum, India should focus on educating the youth rather than exporting them to third class universities and colleges elsewhere (especially in the new world colonies). India should also recognize that BA ( been abroad) does not always mean IB( is better). There is too much excitement in India and elsewhere in the world; Australia on the other hand is an isolated community and perhaps the world should just ignore them, and let them be what they want to be. Fri 05 Feb 2010 09:55:57 GMT+1 V Rath For all our media crying out hoarse that Oz is racist, I an Indian ask the Indian Media to introspect on what we Indians have done to Australian citizens. An Oz Christian Missionary and his two small children were burnt alive in India. So by the same context does that make India A) Anti Christian B) Anti Oz C) Anti White? Is the whole of India to be labeled as such by the Oz media?Pot calling the Kettle black? (no pun here) Thu 04 Feb 2010 15:54:45 GMT+1 V Rath Well Indians are at the receiving end because they do not eat beef, remain weaklings and only have the guts to stake it out like hyenas in a group. Even a 16 year old Aussie kid due to beer and beef is stronger than a pot-bellied 24 year old India.Beer and Beef is the answer. Thu 04 Feb 2010 15:49:49 GMT+1 Scott Barnden As for the Indian student who was set alight police have recently reported their findings that it was not racially motivated.It is alleged that the attack was a false report and the student in question burned himself while trying to set his car on fire to commit insurance fraud. Thu 04 Feb 2010 05:12:24 GMT+1 sewer rat What a joke. A recent assault on Indians, that the Indian media labeled racist, was done by other Indians. now the supposedly racist arson has been found to have been a self-inflicted insurance scam: the Indian media continues to be a joke:"An Indian editor who ran a cover story headlined "Why the Aussies Hate Us" says the fact the basis of his charge has been discredited does not make Australians any less racist. " are ill-served by a shoddy news media and exaggerated national pride. Instead of rushing to cry racism without getting the facts, if a fraction of their "outrage" were directed at the social ills in their own country, maybe their country would improve... Wed 03 Feb 2010 18:33:15 GMT+1 Steve I'm a white Austra1ian, 1eft years ago part1y because it's a racist country. Not a good p1ace to bring up ha1f white kids.Racia1 hatred is part of the cu1ture there, against Asians, browns, b1acks, on1y recommended for caucasians, who think they are superior beings there.A1so a very vio1ent cu1ture genera11y.Better go to Europe you Indians, it's more civi1ised! Tue 02 Feb 2010 21:06:35 GMT+1 Mark It is hard to comment honestly with expecting to be removed or banned due to racism. The vast majority of Australians, and New Zealanders, and I expect everyone else in the world, would prefer not to live in India, although it might be a popular place to visit. In recent years there have been large influxes of people from other cultures who have little, if any intention of becoming `Australian`. The result is that they bring their culture and beliefs into the country and basically attempt to create a small India in every city where they have suffcient numbers. Whilst most people would like to meet people of other cultures, they do not want to live in a foreign country, without leaving their doorstep.I blame the governments immigaration policies for the conflict. It seems as though whole communities are being granted residence. It is totally understandable that some Australian people feel they are in a battle.With successive generations, the cultural identity of the immigrants becomes blended with that of their new home, however, ethnocentrism and compatitibily of cultures should be considered when deciding on imigration limits. Tue 02 Feb 2010 05:57:47 GMT+1 Ashish My wife and I are Indian professionals. We moved to Sydney 2 years ago on a 457 after considering several other options in the US, UK and Canada. We came here to give our young children a less stressful life and work-life balance for ourselves. We got our residency within a year. Now we are having second thoughts. We live in an affluent suburb in Sydney's North Shore. This afternoon, a car-borne Aussie bloke downed his window and hurled profanities at my wife unprovoked. She was walking the kids home from school. I won't generalise and probably this is an isolated incident. We are anxious for our children's future. Mon 01 Feb 2010 14:32:46 GMT+1 Rajat Bhatia This post has been Removed Mon 01 Feb 2010 08:58:54 GMT+1 Jono So, as of this morning there have been three recent murders of Indian nationals in Australia.In the case of Nitin Garg, the perpetrators are yet to be caught, and the police investigation continues.In the case of Ranjodh Singh, Gurpreet Singh, 23, his 20-year-old wife Harpreet Bhullar and another Indian have been charged with the murder.In the case of Manpreet Kaur, Chamanjot Singh faced court on the charge of killing his wife.So of the three murders, one is unsolved, and the other two were allegedly committed by Indian nationals, against their fellow countrymen.Is it still a wave of racist violence?Where is the Indian Media, howling their anger towards the murderers?Why are they silent when an Indian is guilty of murder? Mon 01 Feb 2010 00:31:20 GMT+1 Shahrukh_Khan I think its all just an attempt by the Indian media to put 'yet another' country under pressure! (They already have never-ending problems with almost all of their neighbours, by the way). I too clearly remember it was India, of all the countries in the world, (no, not Afghanistan, not Iraq), where an Australian girl was brutally killed by a stalker; it was there that Australian missionaries were countinuously harrassed for weeks and 2 of them were eventually killed just for being Christians, it is from India that i find the maximum hate-based journalism (against other countries) coming out. A big majority of people in india do not welcome people belonging to other religions or nationalities! We hear about so many cases of harrassmet of Christians and Muslims in India. Quite frankly therefore, there are plenty of factors that make me place India on the list of countries that i, as a traveller, am not at all eager to visit! Sat 30 Jan 2010 20:01:14 GMT+1 Flavian Hardcastle Jono this is exactly my take on it. According to nationmaster, there are about 141000 assaults per year in Australia, or (roughly) 400 per day. Indians being 2% of the population, there should be about 8 assaults on Indians per day. Yet the Indian media talks about two in one week as if it's some kind of holocaust. Every incident in which an Indian is robbed or assaulted is automatically reported as an act of racism, unless circumstances obviously prove otherwise. It's pure hysteria, no other term for it.I read that Christian Churches are being attacked in India, yet again. This time it is in retaliation against "racial crime against Indian students in Australia." Fri 29 Jan 2010 19:05:38 GMT+1 Rahul Basu Mr Jono. I take you on the face value and I don't need to verify it. Although the number of people getting assalted is whopping high. In my earlier blog, which u felt very emotional about, I never meant causing harms to innocent people of poor socio-economic background. I meant the criminals, and in most cases police know who they are. My main allegation is with the country's penal system, which is not hard enough to deter the criminals to get invloved in such henious acts.Let me quote a real example here. Once, in one of the shopping malls in Sydney, I was shopping and suddenly saw 3 teens caught red-handed by the security staff for shop lifting. I was amazed to see they had cheeks to smile it away. System is too humane here. Nothing would have happenned to those guys. They would have got released scot free with some ineffective warnings.Had it been any other country like Singapore, they would have been caned. Too much of soft aproach is more harmful than taking extreme measures.Secondly, I am not against any race. Good people are there in every race and religion. They must be protected and the bad elements must be eliminated. Then only you can have a true civilised society. You need to take the weeds off if flowers have to bloom. Weeds and flowers can not co-exist. Am I too wrong saying that? Fri 29 Jan 2010 06:23:36 GMT+1 Jono The Australian Bureau of Statistics, Rahul. Please, go to the website and analyse my figures.You will find them to be accurate. If you do not, please feel free to tell me what your findings were.In regard to your presumption that I sympathise with criminals, please inform when I stated that.As I recall, I advocated the rule of law and due process, you know, justice.I opposed your idea that police should enter neighbourhoods known for poverty and higher crime rates and shoot people dead "like dogs".To me that is insane and in direct contradiction to the idea of justice and a lawful, peace-loving society.And in regard to your presumption that we should abandon statistics and facts simply because you are emotional, I would rather not abandon logic and rational thinking, for anything, or any man.I mean really, the idea that we should make judgements about nations, peoples and situations motivated purley by our sensitivities and emotions is crazy.To clarify for you, I feel terrible for the family of Nitin Garg and Ranjodh Singh. These two young men, who would no doubt have contributed greatly to Australia as they lived out their lives here, have been taken from us far too early.That is also true of the couple of hundred other people who are murdered in Australia each year. Terrible tragedies, all, obviously.You'll be happy to know the police have arrested three people today and yesterday and charged them with the murder of Ranjodh Singh. is an article on the case.My disgust with this debate stems from the lack of reason applied. The assumption that these two murders were racial in nature is shocking, particularly as those charged with the murder of Ranjodh Singh are in fact Indian nationals. Fri 29 Jan 2010 05:31:01 GMT+1 Rahul Basu I could observe Mr Jono seems to be having lots of sympathies towards the criminals, for whaever reason.I am also aboserving his accute obsession towards the flaunting the statisticical figures when the topic of discussion is so sensitive and emotional in nature. Even, if we take his figures and back calculate, we are saying that there are 500,000 assults, 38,889 robberies and 167 murders happen every year in Australia. Where did you get this data from? Fri 29 Jan 2010 04:07:12 GMT+1 Jono There are over a quarter of a million people of Indian heritage living in Australia.This equates to 1.8% of the total population.As such they should be expected to suffer roughly 1.8% of the crime.This equates to roughly 9000 assaults, 700 robberies and 3 murders per year.The Indian media has highlighted far fewer cases than this.So how is this even a rational debate?Why is it that every argument presented here by natives or people living in Australia is largely fact based and backed up by facts and statistics, while the vast majority of posts from other people (who seem to have never been to the cities and country they so vehemently critisize) seem to be completely emotive, with no evidence or facts, but simply heresay and opinion? Thu 28 Jan 2010 23:15:07 GMT+1 leoca Live in Peace only solution... Because even after all these issues Indians will still go to foreign countries. Because India is over populated and less opportunities. So debating is not going to resolve the issue. As a matter of fact these type of issues can never be resolved. Immigrant in foreign country where you don't uynderstand the culture and language yea i can see why is this happening. In india recently 9 year old was raped. So should also annouce Goa is a Rape capital of India. Every day or maybe every hour there is a rape. Point is problem can not be resolved by blaming each other. Thu 28 Jan 2010 20:32:18 GMT+1 Prashanth To my view,We Indians must be proactive with this issue.Racism and terrorism do exist in all over the world,Australia is not exception.As said by many people, it is useless by simply commenting and escalating the problem.If there exist a threat for lives over there we should avoid it rather keep on hanging with it. Wed 27 Jan 2010 15:25:49 GMT+1 Jess of Oz I am Australian, and lived in Melbourne for a few years, but have lived in many places in NSW, Vic and Qld, and the racism being commented on goes very much both ways. The percieved white-supremecist attitude is a dreadful exaggeration and is very dated. It pertains to the odd individual only...we don't have organised groups of white racist men or women like America. It simply is a part of our history (you might recall the practically ancient 'white Australia policy', and also how Pauline Hanson's 'One Nation' group was almost universally condenmed more recently), but not a part of our present culture. I have experienced racism from immigrants as a white Australian woman, but it simply isn't really spoken about. There is a sense of being persecuted and ganged up on in one's own country, which, politely, we rarely expose in the media...even our own media. We don't want to escillate matters but there has been a lot of intercultural tension for a very long time. Most adults just cope with it, but there is a growing anger within the youth element of our culture. There is a sense of 'fighting back' emerging, which is definately scary, even for white Australians. At this point, I wish to express distaste at the comments regarding the Australian versus Indian attitude toward education...the dropping out and drug abuse etc. I am 25 and a year from finishing my second degree. Australians take education very seriously as a nation and a culture...which is why it is one of our primary exports..we have worked hard to develop a good public system. This has nothing to do with outright competition, it is more to do with the quiet on-street mumblings which you only experience by living here and being exposed to it every day. As much as there is an anti-non-white racism to be experienced, there is an equal level of anti-white racism to be experienced. The heat has people wearing short shorts and singlet tops, etc, which are found to be offensive to some migrant cultures, and Australian women are veryt much targeted by external groups and at least 'given a hard time' for it, and at worst, targeted for sex-crimes because of it. With the Cronulla riots for example, which recieved overseas attention from an external point of view, there had been years of young teenage girls being kidnapped in Sydney and gang-raped for hours by groups of 'ethnic' men as they walked home from school etc. That went on for a long time and involved many individuals and were definately racially motivated as the girls were berrated and called 'white sl#ts' and other names based on their ethnicity and 'loose' culturaldress codes during the attacks. The breaking point was a surf life-guard being assaulted by an 'ethnic' gang on the beach he was patrolling..and in Australia, nothing makes people more angry than someone who is perceivably from somewhere else, attacking people who are in the industry of saving lives and protecting people. (Well, maybe paedophiles make us that angry too). I am not suggesting that these attacks on Indian students are motivated by pre-existing inter-racial violence, but there is certainly a two-way racism that every Australian does put up with on a regular basis which provokes a violent outburst in some people, out of fear or parranioa or whatever, but those are the only stories you are hearing out there because we are striving to be a tolerant 'melting pot society'. In any small area (Melbourne is a very small city, by the way)where you have high-density living arrangements with many different cultures with clashing ideals existing together, there are going to be clashes, and retalliations for those clashes and a struggle by each culture to assert its right to have a place there. I think a lot of people are commenting from a place of ignorance, which comes from not experiencing a highly multi-racial society in action as it develops, and also from a position of comfort within an old society with strong established norms. We are a young country doing our best to be open minded, future-oriented, and experience what other cultures have to add to our own. We do appreciate diversity. I am studying to be a teacher, and it is drummed into our education system that diversity is an advantage. It is ingrained in our Primary School curriculum as a 'value' and a 'perspective' and is required by law to be taught. It is a sense of wanting to retaliate against an element in our culture that is perceived to be an escallating threat to the individual that some young people in lower socio-ecomonic status areas are responding to, and yes, it is fuelled by fear and parranoia, but these feelings are regularly reinforced by what is experienced by individuals within society every day, regardless of skin-colour. Wed 27 Jan 2010 02:23:59 GMT+1 Rahul Basu This post has been Removed Tue 26 Jan 2010 23:47:13 GMT+1 kobieroxx Oh my god, How sick to still see these australian people backing their country after all these incidents. If We start doing the same with your people in India then you will feel the heat.But we are indians and we know the meaning of Hospitality and Respect.It is hurting us more the you people are still backing your Government in this issue.Sorry if iam rude but you people are sick. Tue 26 Jan 2010 13:09:22 GMT+1 Jono So Rahul Basu, you say that Australia is not displaying the requisites of a civilized society, and yet your solution is to, and I quote, "Police should raid these areas and shoot them like mad dogs".Happily, Australia has the rule of law, and as such it's illegal for police to go into neighborhoods and shoot people randomly.You position is that of an ignorant savage. Your idea of randomly killing people is obviously not the product of a civilized upbringing.I'd put forward rational, statistical arguments to refute your ridiculous claims, but what's the point?Your rant drips with irrational hatred and vitriol. You are not a man who a person could engage in dialogue with. Tue 26 Jan 2010 11:19:43 GMT+1 Rahul Basu In my opinion, whether the attacks on Indians or any other community is racial or otherwise, is besides point. The main culprit is this country's defunct and impotent penal system. I am amused to read the cowardly advises such as don't go out in night, don't travel late in public transports, keep yourself confined in your home as much as you can, don't live in less expensive suburban areas etc etc. These advices are utter stupid and menifest how much ineffective our law and order is. Does anyone have the brain to analyse why people have to be in such compromising situations? Because they have to manage their expenses. They are students, they have to pay their fees, they have to feed themselves. Neither Indian Govt or Australian Govt are giving them any financial aids. How will they live? Next question - Why are they coming then? The answer is totally besides the point. Who is allowing them to come and giving visas. Australian Govt. Why? Because they are the backbone of the $13b worth education industry of Australia. Most locals don't want to go to uni anyway. They are happy with their great careers in plumbing or carpentry. Australian universitis run because of the foreign students. If foriegn students stop coming over, the education industry of Australia will get down to its knees. Many will close. So whose responsibility is it to ensure safety to these golden egg laying hens? Why can't these so-called unsafe areas be made safe by combing these filthy maggots out to their elimination? What right do they have to live in a civilised society? There exists few countries, where a criminal gets tremors in even thinking to attempt for a crime. Catch all the druggies and junkies who live on doles being paid by the law-abiding, hard-working and peace loving tax payers and cull them the way birds get culled on the wake of an endemic. Crimes will stop automatically. In any country in today's world, any person belonging to any race, religion, skin colour or ethnic background has right to live if he/she is a peace loving, law-abiding person and is contributing positively to the nation's economy. On the contrary a person belonging to any race, skin colour or ethnic background should cease to exist who commits henious crimes such as drug trafficking, murder, rape, roberry etc etc. Police should raid these areas and shoot them like mad dogs. I can gaurantee you, there will be no crime in practically no time. Mon 25 Jan 2010 13:10:22 GMT+1 GeorgeAlly It seems if there is a war going on, there is a campaign directed to the mob to stir up racism. Australia doesn't even recognise their own people, Aborigines, like America doesn't recognise their people, the American Indians. How is there hope when people are sheep. They are told what to feel and think. They can't even generate compassion for the downtrodden. The reason is greed, vanity, and holy wars that never end. Sat 23 Jan 2010 08:16:53 GMT+1 nathanj "The recent act of an attempt to burn down a Sikh Temple in Melbourne should be condemned but we have so much to be cleaned in our own backyard."...Let's get the real facts here. The temple is in fact under construction and has not been completed. The half completed building to locals eyes doesn't even look like a religious building,just looks like average community building. The building itself is in one of the new outer suburbs,a suburb I might mention I have never even heard of before despite being from Melbourne and having lived here for over 30 years. These new outer suburbs are well known for having poor public transport or no transport at all. Combine that with very little for teenagers to do legally and it's not surprising crime by drunken teens is relatively common in these areas. So don't paint this crime as religious violence..see it for what it is ...bored drunken youth. Fri 22 Jan 2010 00:51:28 GMT+1 Josh Bartak I live in Melbourne. Most if not all of the attacks occur in the outer north-west of the city which are lower class neighbourhoods that are much more prone to drunken and racially-motivated violence and where it is less safe to walk the streets at night. If the Police are having a hard time dealing with the violence then there should be government sponsered self defense classes for Indians and other foreigners. Thu 21 Jan 2010 22:38:30 GMT+1 sewer rat "For a lot of Indians, the news of violent attacks is pretty much a shock, because it was so unexpected. According to UN stats, Indian per-capita crime rates rank among the lowest in the world in categories including assault, burglary, car thefts etc, and only in murder rates it is higher than Australia (though lower than USA)."The problem with these claims is that in India there is low reporting, investigation, and prosecution of many of these crimes. Police are corrupt and ineffective (ask any Indian who has to pay bribes regularly or witnesses policemen sleeping on the job at railway stations). Courts move sluggishly. Citizens are often reluctant to report crimes out of low expectations of likelihood of justice. Also rape is under-reported in India due to society unjustly placing a stigma on the victim.Taking the assault figures in India, for example, at face value, is ludicrious. Why would the assault-to-murder ratio in India look so vastly different from any country where crime statistics are credible?Transparency International gives a good picture of how corrupt India is and, consequently, how much credibility to give to crime statistics there. Australia is 8th least corrupt nation, while India is 84th!Murder is a good benchmark because, even in India, a dead body is evidence that is hard to ignore. The per-capita murder rate comparison suggests that India is twice as unsafe as Australia, across the board. Thu 21 Jan 2010 14:39:41 GMT+1 sewer rat Sure, stats are right here: The number of incidents reported in the Indian media don't even come close to 1% of the expected number of assaults victimizing Indians in Australia if crime were, on-average, colour-blind.In other words, the Indian media lies when it says that by the number of attacks itself, there is "obviously" a pattern of racist violence.Also see for the hypocrisy of the Indian media in this affair. Thu 21 Jan 2010 14:04:21 GMT+1 Jane The statistical data will never be there Flavian because the police do not ask place of birth, religion, etc when making an arrest. To so would imply they are looking for a racial motive. So damned if they do, damned if they don't. Trouble with multiculturalism. Minorities fight against the criminalisation of their respective race or religion, they have sued against it. So the police comply and play down race only for this to happen. Really these things are best decided in a court of law. Once everyone starts with theories and playing judge the criminalisation of someone, a neighbourhood, a race, a religion or even a nation takes place.Sex crimes are far more prevalant and could even more readily be applied to racial background. Yet you can never find data to prove it either. If you did bring it into the public forum they would be backlash and accusations of racism by binding together crime and race. perahsp even by the same group as taxi drivers ahve a very high rate of sexual abuse of female passengers. Can you imagine the howls if this were to happen?So really it should be left for the courts to decide racial motive.We have seen here multi racial attacks on Indian students, do we get into a a lather at refugees casing problems..again. Do we get into a lather because Hindu/muslim clashed in a culturally Christian country? The police/ government have done the right thing by elimination of race and religion as much as they can and refer to us all as Australian but this has led to wholesale vilificatin of anglo Australians and incited tensions where they had not even been present before.The problem is this sitting in judgement by foreign governments and by media. By people without facts and without being witness. This is why we have courts, to decide if an INDIVIDUAL commited a crime only due to race or religion. Let the courts decide. Wed 20 Jan 2010 22:30:47 GMT+1 Flavian Hardcastle 98."What many Australians are unable to answer is why Indian students appear to be getting attacked in their country alone in such high numbers, though there are more Indian students in the US, for example. Many of the Indian students in US are in fact based in some of the most crime prone US cities."Are you sure of that? Do you have actual statistics to back that up? Because most of this debate seems to be taking place in some fact free hyperbole zone.That aside, if this is true, the reason might be in the demographics. I would wager that compared to the US, a very higher proportion of Indian students in Australia are here doing vocational courses (cooking, hair dressing). It is likely to be this group in Australia that is most subject to muggings, robberies, random assaults and (yes, I will concede) racially motivated attacks. The President of the Association of Australian Education Representatives in India, Gulshan Kumar, agrees with this perception."Gulshan Kumar : First of all, let me tell you that there are two types of students who have been going to Australia. First type of students are going to Universities and quality providers and the second type of students are going to private providers and education is a second priority to them. They are going to work inAustralia and acquire permanent residency. The maximum of attacks has happened on these type of students who are economically poor and they live in distant suburb areas which are considered to be unsafe. Most of these students work in night shifts driving taxis, working in petrol pumps and 24 hour stores. These make them soft target for the criminals. These type of attacks can happen in any metro."Of course, nobody really knows if this is the explanation, because the statistical data just isn't out there in the public domain, even if it exists. It seems to me like the best guess though. Wed 20 Jan 2010 13:50:39 GMT+1 atticusfinch01 This might maybe shed some more light on the discussion:"Indian women twice as likely to burn to death, Lancet study finds."Twelve Indian women burn to death every hour on average - almost double the corresponding number for men - according to a new study in The Lancet medical journal...."Timesonline March 3, 2009. Wed 20 Jan 2010 02:18:54 GMT+1 Jono Ananya, no matter how many times people explain why Indians are disproprotiantley represented in crime statistics in Melbourne (no where else in Aus), you just don't listen.No matter how many times that we explain that Indians statistically must be represented in crime statistics in Australia, simply based on their population numbers, you do not listen.When I explain that the perpetrators of the two murders of Indian nationals in the last year were probably not commited by white anglo-Australians, that one was a murder in a neighbourhood where gangs of middle-easteners and African immigrants dominate and the other was almost certainly committed by the victims' fellow countrymen (Indians), you do not listen.When we explain that Indians are safer in Australia than either the US or India, you do not listen.When we explain that many hundreds of thousands of Australians of Indian heritage live in Australia peacefully and properously, you do not listen.When we explain that your media is sensationalising and outright lying about the situation in order to create a story, you do not listen.We present statistics, evidence, data, explanations, facts, you simply present emotive and illogical statements and generalisations, based on ignorance and fear.So what's the point of dialouge? Clearly you have a very simplistic take on the situation which will not be swayed no matter how many facts and how much evidence is shown to you.Are you aware that an Indian man murdered his Australian born wife a couple of days ago in Australia? Was that racial? Or just a horrible and unfortunate incident?In regards to the Vietnamese emmigrating to this country, they have integrated very, very well. They are just another part of the community now.There was never a racial bhate campaign against them, just as there has never been one against Indians.There were issues with their community initially, mostly based around crime in their communities (the Vietnamese part of Sydney very quickly became the heroin capital of the country). But that is a complex issue, for another discussion.Suffice to say you have no idea about it and it has nothing to do with what we are discussing and there is no correlation.Overall this whole issue is hysteric and disgraceful.Sadly the real issue (urban crime) is being missed. Tue 19 Jan 2010 22:59:49 GMT+1 RR greetings alli am indian lived in oz for 15 yrs and made my life here. thanks to mr. little , a sydney restaurant manager and my teacher bob and many others who helped me, the guy who helped find my first unit in north sydney by calling off his jog and St Ives indian restaurant owner , who did not pay my wages for week's honest work as i left for a better job, thanks to mr. little again!oz was and is very welcoming but far from perfect. I came to study and make life, not make money working for cash at dodgy indian restaurants or marry someone on paper.Indian and australian media is imbecile (love BBC tv for their poosh accent) and so are both societies. before I tell the aussie to fo, I consider and reconsider the issues of Caste, gender, region and religion and north indians craz about getting whiter skin (just look at matrimonial sites and thanks shahrukh!), not to mention the freaking resveration system for life, where 70% jobs are resvered( nb: rajasthan) paying debts of my forefathers' deeds?are the naxals aussies? why are they so angry with rest of us? i thought abt cornulla too but then of woman; who travel in public transport is hallmark of nation's capital city's public transport. delhi that is, porn laws help the case in canberra, or so i think.most indian students have no interest in studying and their motives vary. most masters students have poor or basic english and equally bad knowledge of the subjects they study and so is aussie teaching faculty in most these collages and unis. (CQU comes to mind)as far as i know average australian-indians have high economic propensity than most ethnic migrants. abs i think.indians talk loudly and have no civic sense( mobiles in trains),stealing council bins for personal storage and using supermarket trolleys for moving units desipte making good money, paying incorrect fares in already disfunctional public transport, breaking law by working more than 20 hrs during their academic sessions and living in shit places and boosting who rich they are in indiashit happens, some in oz and in india tooget real and have chicko-roll and red-bull(it is nandi!!) Tue 19 Jan 2010 15:37:14 GMT+1 Jane AnanyaOn the contray Indians Students are murdered at a far higher rate in the US. In fact most murders in Australia appear to be at the hands of Indians. I cannot find proof of any murder committed by any other race. One unsolved, race unknown. Tue 19 Jan 2010 14:11:13 GMT+1 Jane The truth.Australians have been attacked by the same groups that have attacked Indians. Australians complained about these race hate attacks and the whole entire world pointed the finger at Australia and accused Australia of being racist. You are probably aware of how this happens. Whites cannot be the victim of racism according to some distorted PC rubbish. The sad aspect of this attitude is that usually the vicims of race hate crime committed by minorities in Australia are women. Yet PC demands the rights of women take second fiddle to race issues.So yes South East Asians, Whites and Aboriginals were targeted for year after year after. No satisfactory response. Whenever people made a noise that were shot down and called racist. I am sure the same ignorance here was displayed back then.So they was a riot. Cronulla Riot. Fight back as PC denied justice to victims of race hate.Ethnic leaders complained about race being let known when they were Australian. Australian vs Australian cannot be racist they cried.So police do not even ask for place of birth of criminal now. They play down race of perpetrator unless very necessary. So they work to protect minorities from being criminalised as a group. Ignore the victim of course, PC at work.However bigots here and everywhere, especially India claim only anglo can be called Australian. They drew a KKK cartoon in Indian media. Why because Australian police protect African. Middle Eastern refugees from being charged with racism with no proof?If they did indulge these wishes of Indian students Australia would still be called racist such is the immaturity of Europeans who grapple with far, far lower rates of immigration and refuse to call an Asian an Englishman.Then the Indian attacks, same ethnic gangs but now joined by African refugee gangs. Indians felt as frustrated as the rest of us that lived in fear in the 90,s and early 2000;s.So they responded the same and had a riot. They attacked people and property.No difference to the same problem that we had to endure not so many years ago.This is the sickness of PC, the sickness of media and the sickness of stereotyping. I see only a couple of posts here that are even close to understanding the reality. PC does not want to accuse muslim, Aborigines, Africans as racist.Well guess what, many just have!Australia is not a race, it is a nationality. These attacks were by minorities in the main and certainly the riots in Harris Park and melbourne were protesting against attacks By Lebanese Msulim gangs ala Cronulla riots. I do believe white have retaliation attacks for the abuse. Incite hate, you get it I guess.Cut and paste journalism should be made illegal. Tue 19 Jan 2010 14:03:19 GMT+1 Ananya78 Also, if it is true that the expatriate Vietnamese community in Australia, were targeted in such serial attacks years ago, there is a pattern to all this. Why were Vietnamese students targeted in the past? They are nowhere as flamboyant and showy maybe than Indian students. If students belonging to certain communties/countries are being attacked from time to time, Australia needs to retrospect and find out why this is happening. I think its a combination of racist hangover and bad policing. Tue 19 Jan 2010 13:22:30 GMT+1 Ananya78 After reading Soutik's post and the comments, I get the feeling a combination of racism and hard core street crime has led to the serial attacks on Indians. What many Australians are unable to answer is why Indian students appear to be getting attacked in their country alone in such high numbers, though there are more Indian students in the US, for example. Many of the Indian students in US are in fact based in some of the most crime prone US cities. There have been a few incidents, but nothing of the sort that Australia is experiencing now. There is something very rotten with the Australian - or Melbourne's- system and quality of policing and reacting to such crimes that is leading to such higher numbers of attacks. And Australia, by and large, seems to be in denial about this reality. Tue 19 Jan 2010 13:19:55 GMT+1 Jono that this murder was not publicized by the Indian media. Tue 19 Jan 2010 10:19:11 GMT+1 Louise Statistically Indian nationals are safer in Australia than in India or the USA. These are the facts.Some Indian students tend to live in the cheaper, poorer areas in Australia's largest cities where there is a higher rate of crime, and therefore they become part of the statistics.I believe that the politics behind these stories is because there is a large diaspora of Indian nationals living overseas, and the Indian Government, and media, would like them to return to India. Many overseas students in Australia tend to migrate at the end of their study as they feel very welcome here. Tue 19 Jan 2010 06:40:26 GMT+1 Jono pointing2010 he's Aussie if he wants to be, it's as simple as that.We are a nation of immigrants, the only real criterea to become an Aussie is to want to be one and to live here.That's all it takes.We are inclusive, we have to be, we all came here from somewhere else.So Suja is an Aussie, and don't you dare say he isn't. Mon 18 Jan 2010 02:23:09 GMT+1 Vikram99 Criminals are found every where. Most of these incidences in Australia seem to be a result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Last year few Indians were murdered in USA. Some people have indicated in their comments In Indian Newspapers that murders in USA were result of racism. I have lived in USA since 70s and I have never heard any one being killed for being an "Indian" in USA. When people move overseas or to a diiferent city they should keep personal security in mind when they look for a place to work, study and live. We do also have a enemy, who has started recruiting people (Rana and Headley) from foriegn countries for terrorist attacks in India. Our enemy can also try to sabotage progress of Indians in other ways also by creating problems between Indians and non-Indians in other countries also. Indian media should not project these criminal incidents as racist incidents. We need to have cultural exchanges like inviting Australian school/college students for short stays in India. Students can go back and share their experiences with other students and general public thru media or other events. Indian Australians can help by educating Indian host families with Australian culture. Let us build bridges and not destroy relationships with misunderstandings. Ausralian government can offer some scholarships to Indians as a good will gesture. Sun 17 Jan 2010 23:55:15 GMT+1 pointing2010 @ SujaYou Aussie now? Drink a few pints in a bar mate and then eat abit of meat...crikey! And then gamble a bit and then be Aussie...blimey! Just because you stayed in a culture a few more years than your "unfortunate attacked brethren" and managed not to get attacked don't make you a tad bit more Aussie! Yes you are right about the misbehavior with women and the garbage bit. And did that get your lamb or was it goat? Crikey! Sun 17 Jan 2010 05:55:41 GMT+1 pointing2010 Maybe India should look at its population finally? Look at the way India is multiplying! From 30,000 or so students in Australia in 2004 to something like 93,000 in 2009!! So the locals feel threatened and feel their employment and benefits in their own country are diminished. Where ever we (and I am Indian) go we will be threatened because for 1) (Once again) we are too many! 2) We want the best wherever we go just because we throw some foreign education revenue 3)We actually can get the best because of our better education and sharper brains 4) We just cannot behave accordingly in a foreign culture because we were raised different...and 5) We are different!! It sucks man to have these kind of attacks on anyone in the 21st century. I thought these kind of attacks belonged to the primitive times. Sun 17 Jan 2010 05:37:54 GMT+1 sewer rat Indian media portraying Australian police negatively? Indians suggesting Australian culture is racist? Hypocrisy!Video: "Indian media and Australia" the Indian media whips up hysteria, the numbers show that incidences of crimes where Indians are victims do not number high enough to demonstrate a pattern of racism.. and that Indians are, indeed, safer in Australia than in their own homeland.Video: "Indian media's myth of Aussie racist violence" Sat 16 Jan 2010 04:55:06 GMT+1 bigbrowncountry Australia is a wonderful world model in interracial harmony.I see examples every day. I saw this last week: Sat 16 Jan 2010 03:45:16 GMT+1 Balaji Viswanathan For a lot of Indians, the news of violent attacks is pretty much a shock, because it was so unexpected. According to UN stats, Indian per-capita crime rates rank among the lowest in the world in categories including assault, burglary, car thefts etc, and only in murder rates it is higher than Australia (though lower than USA). And majority of those crimes are poor-on-poor. It is indeed extremely rare for a upper middle-class or upper class to be a victim of a violent crime in India. So, even though there are urban crimes, religious violence etc, the affluent class' only exposure to them is through their morning newspaper and is of primarily academic interest. The Mumbai 26/11 attacks made such a big news compared to other major terrorist attacks is exactly because it was one of the first to target the affluent segment. The media has also raised voice in many of the cases of members of this segment were targeted (in India, USA or elsewhere). On the other hand, crimes against immigrants in Middle east and South-east Asia go underreported, because most of the victims are lower class.Indian middle class also has very little idea of the crime rates in the West, and has very rosy notions about West. I personally was shocked when I came to Baltimore, US where urban crime rates was many times higher than what I was used in India. Many of my friends were mugged and there were murders in the area. While I had roamed freely around India in all forms of transportation at all times, I had to walk really carefully in the region around the world's most powerful capital. These attacks are something out of a blue for Indians - whether the intentions were racist or not. And hysteric reactions are due to this, though I hope media matures and Indians abroad don't take safety for granted like they do in India, and really follow safety procedures. Sat 16 Jan 2010 03:38:03 GMT+1 wobblewig Dear Peter Curlewis, who quotes: "It seems to me that the chain of life is the very definition of a sustainable process." Like many people with a slide rule you cannot see the wood for the trees.Human world population has tripled in the past 50 years.Factory pollution has tripled. Transport has tripled.The requirements of humans has tripled.Domestic animals for food has perhaps more than tripled in that time.Forest degradation has tripled also during that time.Some wild animal population have reduced during that time.Our intelligence appears also to have reduced.Without the need of your slide-rule, most of us can see that we have got the world out of balance! Sat 16 Jan 2010 00:34:19 GMT+1 wobblewig All Australian Newspapers are muffling and stifling ‘Dinkum Aussie’ opinion on MIGRATION. Is it because the Journos are recent arrivals? How is it that the Newspapers can run (manipulate), Public opinion in Australia? Sat 16 Jan 2010 00:19:16 GMT+1 wobblewig While I deplore this behaviour, regardless of who is driving the Cab, this example does raise another question. Why can any Foreigner obtain a Student Visa AND gain employment in Australia?Surely, this opens the door to hidden rorts?A Student from, say India, BORROWS money from a "rip-off" loan shark, to obtain a Student Visa for Australia, then he has to work in Australia to pay off the LOAN SHARK.Perhaps this is why there are SO MANY Indian students at "shonky" 'education' establishments in Australia?Such an OPEN DOOR system is fraught with mischief. Sat 16 Jan 2010 00:11:01 GMT+1 wobblewig We’ll say, if you give us the chance!We are all getting sick of the unbalancing of our Population.No students should be allowed to work on a Student Visa. Nor should they have special access to Immigration.We do not want 100 million Indians or 100 million other people invading our values. We should not be a dumping ground for people who do not have the guts to sort out their own Country's problems.The "spin doctors" in Government must be exposed for stifling the debate on our population and immigration.The Newspapers too are guilty of "calming things down." Sat 16 Jan 2010 00:02:20 GMT+1 wobblewig Does every serious problem have to be filibustered to avoid the possibility of calling a spade "a bloody digging tool?"While the Government 'bean counters' are rubbing their hands together over the influx of Indian students/workers, the man in the street is far more astute in today’s' information age.He knows India has a population of one billion.He knows that Australia is Nirvana to perhaps 100 million knowledgeable Indians.He knows that the cost of a study course in Australia is peanuts to an Indian Student who can, while here, earn $20,000 to $50,000 as Taxi Drivers: Sales Reps: Mcwhat's it servers.He knows also that India is not an egalitarian Country like Australia.He also knows that our own population is getting out of balance with people of differing Ethics and Morals, family values, religions, languages.Are our own Indigenous people given a voice in this debate? Fri 15 Jan 2010 23:54:23 GMT+1 CopenhagenDK I am very surprised about these attacks - first of all everybody likes indians right ! ? I didn't believe it - when I meet indians here in Copenhagen who said they were happy to be in Denmark, because everybody was so nice to them compared to for instance UK ??? I guess that means more are coming, which is great ! Then I heard about these attacks ? What the *** ? However the vast majority of English and Australians are good people to - so maybe you just need to cool the hot blood and find the few bad people and place them in prison where they belong. Calm down, solve the problem by finding the criminals, sober up the tone and then in particulary the politians should wake up and live up to their responsibilities, they have really made this situation much worse than needed. Maybe a little bit of cold, thought through sensible talk would help (probably a bit boring scandinavian style) but maybe it would help. Fri 15 Jan 2010 20:58:36 GMT+1 BakedBeans One of the problems is Victorian Government's unwillingness to release all information about violence on students. Last year on 2 July, The Age had an editorial about why the government won't release information on the death of 52 foreign students in Victoria in one year. The government claimed that the coroners' reports were not ready.So Suja you could get these reports from police and tell us the truth.... Fri 15 Jan 2010 11:08:09 GMT+1 BakedBeans >>>sUJA SAYS >>>I can confidently say that amongst people from all these nations, the Australians of today may well be the least racist.Thanks for accepting that Australia has race problem as like any others.1.Have you ever helped students in conducting 'Welcome to Australia'cultural lessons if young student population annoys you so much ? 2.You mean to say you should judge a country over a period of time ie 15 years?Are you not quick to judge about USA then?3.Why do all Indians shout 'racism' every time there is any crime against an Indian ?It has happened before that is why.People would change their mind if crimes are prooven otherwise over a period of time in line with your logic.4. Do not make an effort to fit in ?Multi cultural means accepting others for what they are within the laws of land.5.Loud music etc...This applies to any youngster in this world.Have heard this phrase 'White Hoody boys'I think you are more worried about your position among Austrlian people rather than accepting level of the problem, which tells Australia is a immature society and it is over rated Fri 15 Jan 2010 10:56:03 GMT+1 Mick I have lived in Australia and my impression is that a majority of Aussies (say 80%) are nice to Indians, are accepting of a multicultural scociety and are ok with the fact that immigration is an economic need. The real problem is the small minority that don't. These attitudes will not change overnight, as lot these people who are racially intolerant are also uneducated and somewhat poor by Australian standards. On the whole, Indians should still go to Australia but remain vigilant. Its a beautiful country, and majority of Aussies are tolerant of foreign students. Fri 15 Jan 2010 10:13:26 GMT+1 Suja Let me first say that I am appalled at how the media has played this up into a frenzy in India and elsewhere. As an Indian family living in Australia, we have had enquiries from friends all over the world asking if we are safe!!! Having lived in India, the Middle-East, USA, Switzerland and Australia, I can confidently say that amongst people from all these nations, the Australians of today may well be the least racist. Perhaps there is less crime in the Middle-East (thanks to dire punishment) but I wouldn't be surprised if Australia is as safe as Switzerland is. Which is safer that the USA and India. I am not quoting statistics but speaking from experience (6 years in Switzerland, 15 in Australia). I am speaking of having a family, going to school, of finding work, of making friends, of living - this is how you judge a nation, not while watching TV in your corner of the world with little understanding of the realities of the place.As for those who quote white-only immigration policy and the like, shall we classify all Indians as barbaric because they let their women burn themselves in the rite of Sati? Or classify all Indians as racist because of the way the untouchables were treated? That was then. There is a different now. In India and in Australia.Why do all Indians shout 'racism' every time there is any crime against an Indian ? I wonder, if an Indian strolls in the Bronx in the early hours and gets mugged, will everyone still shout 'racism' ? I guess not because they would guess the attacker to be black (that guess smacks racism). If a young white woman got into a taxi in the middle of the night in Delhi and gets attacked, would you shout 'racism' ? What's good for the goose is good for the gander...Some people above have commented on how Indian students do not make an effort to fit in. I confess to feeling shame and anger when I see young Indian males standing in groups and making inappropriate comments to passing young women. And I definitely feel annoyed when they push in lines, drop garbage on the road (that really get's my goat!), play loud music or talk loudly and non-stop on their phones while travelling in public transport, drive without courtsey to others on the road etc. I wish they would teach themselves some manners. But surely this is not the reason for which they are targeted. As a member of the Australian community, I think it is important to find why these crimes take place and put a stop to it. I join in urging the authorities to find ways and means to reduce crime in Melbourne, for this is my home, I love it and want the best for it. Fri 15 Jan 2010 08:49:52 GMT+1 Jay I don't live in Australia so I can't comment much about the history of ethnic violence plaguing the country. However, being a student in human psychology and behavior patterns I can profoundly come to a conclusion that most of these attacks could be 'opportunist' by nature. It seems many of the Indian immigrant students live in poorer suburbs of Melbourne where there could be possible drug addicts, unemployed youth, gangsters etc. Now common sense would tell us that it would be wise to avoid such areas after dark. If the Indians are working late into the night and return to their homes in these areas then I am not surprised to hear they could be canon-fodder to these criminals. It's not an Australian thing but a global thing. How safe are foreign nationals in India ? not any safer than Indians in Melbourne's lousy suburbs.I have a personal story to share. I am a Canadian of Indian origin. I visited India in 2008 due to a wedding. I was in Bangalore and one night as I was returning home with a relative, a couple of young men spotted us from a dark alley. They looked young and probably in their late 20s. My relative asked me to walk quicker so that we could hit the busy part of the neighborhood. We were followed for a good part of 10 minutes and then as we entered the busier part of the community, the two men vanished. Now I am sure had we stayed in those lonely alleys we would have been assaulted. My relatives who are from Bangalore argue how the city is one of India's SAFEST. So could it be a case of "being in the wrong place at the wrong time" ? Was my situation any different compared to these young Indians ? people need to use their brains before jumping to conclusions.I suggest the Indian and Australian governments work together to settle immigrant Indians into safer neighborhoods. The local Indian community should also put their hands up and contribute towards efforts to build a safer environment for Indians. Unfortunately, from what I am reading I don't think ANYTHING is done in Melbourne or elsewhere in Australia to safeguard the interests of immigrants. Until this problem is solved I feel the Indian government should enforce travel advisories to Indians who are from poor backgrounds and are more likely to take up residences in crime infested parts of Australian cities. Fri 15 Jan 2010 07:22:30 GMT+1 indiablogger815 I think it might be race issue & not opportunistic. This kind of situation exists in US too - schools in bad neighbourhood; students not having car or enough cash & forced to stay near the school; having to work off-campus & return late at night. I have heard many stories where Indian students get mugged in US, but never heard anybody getting killed. Usually, petty criminals dont kill when their victim is co-operative. Most educated Indians dont resort to violence & hence they usually co-operate. As for someone who said Indians are argumentative bunch - WRONG. Indians have good social-protocol sense, its a cultural trait. When they get to a new place, they establish contacts with other Indians, do their research & know how to behave. What I dont understand is why a petty criminal who's supposedly only interested in iPods, cellphones & laptops would want to increase his possible jail-term by killing ? Especially, I find it very difficult to believe that an opportunistic petty criminal armed with guns would take his sweet time to pour gasoline & burn the person alive, rather than just shooting. Burning alive - definitely a hate crime. SHAME ON YOU AUSTRALIA. Fri 15 Jan 2010 06:39:20 GMT+1 Gravity This post has been Removed Fri 15 Jan 2010 06:25:40 GMT+1 Augustautumn This post has been Removed Fri 15 Jan 2010 05:37:54 GMT+1 Augustautumn This post has been Removed Fri 15 Jan 2010 05:28:10 GMT+1 Pankaj Chopra India's External affairs ministers and others in the government have been making noises about state of affairs in Australia. There's more to it than sheer racism. It may be organized city crime by gangs which the local police is not equipped or experienced to deal with or some opportunists who wanted to make the maximum out of Indians' vulnerability. Indian government officials have not moral right to direct Australian to get their act right as our own human rights track record leaves so much to be desired. The recent act of an attempt to burn down a Sikh Temple in Melbourne should be condemned but we have so much to be cleaned in our own backyard. Thousands of Sikhs were butchered on Delhi streets in 1984 under Congress' rule and the accused have got away scot free till date. Human rights are violated in major cities and suburbs in the form of organized gangs indulging in day light robberies, murders and bank heists. A government that has failed to curb inflation, black marketing and all sorts of unlawful practices has no moral right to preach some other country about some issue. The Indian government needs to secure Indians living in India before training guns overseas! Fri 15 Jan 2010 04:03:32 GMT+1 John Lilley This post has been Removed Thu 14 Jan 2010 19:17:08 GMT+1 samyak gowda SPRING SAYS : I see following reasons for attack on indian in australia.And he goes on to give a list of reasons for attacking Indians in Australia.But in effect he personifies what is racism. If you attack someone because of the way they dress, talk, behave, look, smell...that's racism mate.Would you like it if an Australian is attacked for his weird accent, revealing clothes, because he eats meat or drinks a lot or because he's perceived to be a descendant of a convict or because he's perceived to be a descendant of the generation which annihilated 500,000 aborigines.Hmmm! THINK. Thu 14 Jan 2010 13:45:01 GMT+1 Peter I work at a Tafe College and the number of Indian students has increased over the last couple of years. While the students study during the day, they get part time work at night. They tend to live in the poorer parts of town along with other poor people, (unemployed, drug addicts, angry people). Moving around in unsafe areas at night leads to an increased chance of being attacked. The patterns of students, not only Indian, leads to their chances of being a victim of a crime being far greater than people who are at home at night. These attacks are in no way racial, but are random acts carried out against whoever is around. If most of the people around are Indian then they will have a higher rate of being victimized. If there were few Indians around but heaps of Americans, then it would be they that get more instances of crime happening against them. Most of those attacked tend to be the young who are more often out at night. I dont see anybody mention that the young are being targeted. While Melbourne is a multi cultural City, there will always be crimes here as in any other major world city. And like other cities the crimes will tend to happen more at night and in poorer parts of town. It has nothing to do with race so you can get off that band wagon. Better common sence advice to traveling students will see them better protected. Thu 14 Jan 2010 12:27:58 GMT+1 Ian Good On a panel talk program put to air sometime back by the A.B.C. after the first attacks began of Indian students here in Aus, I picked up on a comment made to the host of this program hosted by Jenny Brockie. It came from a Police spokesman who said that they do not make any investigation into whether attacks on people are of racial motivation. I found this comment rather incredulous, but obviously I am out of touch with reality as not one person on the panel made any comment about this ?. Thu 14 Jan 2010 10:45:46 GMT+1 BakedBeans Indmas>>Australia is a country of immigrants like United States. There are migration from over 140 countries to Australia, which is quite unique.Australia is no where near United states in treating immigrants.Australia had white only policy until 1950s.This policy is quite unique.>>>The crime and violence are usually are law and order situation for every country, which sometimes happens to visitors also.Australia is over rated.Speaking ones native language is not crime.What language you speak with mother/father over the phone ?Are you asking Nitin Garg family and others who were attacked to be grateful for negligence on the part of Victorian police ?>>>its obvious as one sees them more in government jobs.90% of the Govt jobs are dumb jobs anywhere in the world .Why majority are not employed in private jobs?Institutional racism ?Applicants with Chinese names fared the worst, having only a one-in-five chance of getting asked in for interviews, compared to applicants with Anglo-Saxon . Thu 14 Jan 2010 09:01:03 GMT+1 WaltOz So all the students who listen to anti-Australian rhetoric will leave Australia, and all the other Indians who live in Australia will happily stay. Sounds like a good result for Australia (who will be most happy to have friendly Indians stay), and a bad one for wherever those students end up (where they are likely to find other "problems"). Thu 14 Jan 2010 08:13:16 GMT+1 indmas Australia is a country of immigrants like United States. There are migration from over 140 countries to Australia, which is quite unique. Indians who are presently in Australia as citizens/permanent residents are mostly those who came as students. The crime and violence are usually are law and order situation for every country, which sometimes happens to visitors also.Agreed that there may be some negligence on the part of Victorian police on the part of bringing things in control.But what about the Indian students behaviour in public? Has anybody thought about it? The way our Indian students behave at railway stations, public places, tourist spots are an eyesore. Needless to say the spitting of tobacco, regardless whichever region they are from India.Dont forget that there are countless eyes watching your behaviour. Its time our Indian students bring some manners,before pointing fingers on the hosts themselves. Indians who are in Australia as citizens/residents/students are getting jobs in all sectors and its obvious as one sees them more in government jobs. Lets not be ungrateful. Thu 14 Jan 2010 07:50:13 GMT+1 Janaki Potukuchi The difficult decision for Indians who are now in Australia: Is it still safe to stay in Australia or leave Australia ASAP? The most recent events seem to lead to the conclusion that leaving Australia now may be the best option. Thu 14 Jan 2010 06:27:15 GMT+1 human1 I`ve seen the news about the attaks against Indian students, racisiam may hve played a role or may not have let us see what the investigation uncovers. I understand some people may think that the police wont put 100% into the ivestigation, Australia is a fair country and the police will treat this case like any other and investigate it 100%. I feel hurt when people say Australia is a racist country (the crimes of one tarnishes us all), are crimes against non-indigenous people in India cosidered racist? A comment made earlier seemed to suggested that welfare is the cause of drug addiction and racisim. In Australia everyone who works pays tax (ok most people) to pay for a myriad of things including a saftey net for those in our society that can`t find work are disabled or to old. Communities are people with common interests looking out for each other,(insted of these people to living in our homes or in slums we give money in the form of taxes so these people may have thier own homes) if we got rid of welfare/centrelink these people would stave have nowhere to live, I`am glad we live in a country that chooses to look after its impovrished people. Australia like all countries is not crime free bashings, murder, robbery, theft , fraud (the list goes on) but each time a person of different ethnisicty is a victum racism is implied. Its probably just violence, not that that helps the families of those lost. Thu 14 Jan 2010 05:43:42 GMT+1 Jono This debate is absurd in the extreme.Very little rationality, no common sense.This is obviously a crime issue. I mean that is obvious to anyone who has been to Melbourne.Firstly, do Indians really believe that there is no crime in Australia? Do you not have crime in India? Is there a nation on earth where there is not crime?Two Indian nationals have been murderd recently. One was stabbed as he was being mugged in a park, late at night in a bad part of town. The part of Melbourne he was murdered in (Footscray) has a long, long hsitory of being a downtrodden, poor, and crime-ridden part of Melbourne. There are murders and assaults there many times a year, on people of all nationalities.The population is less than half anglo-Australian, it is primarily Eastern European, middle-eastern, Indian and Pacific Islander immigrants who live in this part of Melbourne. In terms of crime, these immigrants represent a disproportiante percentage of those involved in crime (due to a variety of issues, perhaps alientation from a culture which is somewhat foreign to them, also povery and lack of opportunity in comparison to some other groups in society).The point of that, is that the person or persons who murdered Nitin Garg were statistically very unlikely to be anglo-Australians, as assumed by the (frankly, ridiculously unproffesional) Indian media.This suggests, coupled with the fact that it was likely a random crime of opportunity with the intention of theft, that the crime was not racial in motivation, but purley opportunistic, for the intention of theft.The second murder of a young Indian man occured in a fruit growing region of regional Victoria and was quite macarbe and shocking, in that the victim was set on fire.This crime occured in a town that has a popualtion of 2000 Indians, and several other significant immigrant groups from around the world who come in search of work, which is always available in the agricultural sector as it is very hard work for little pay.Currently the police investigation (information about which is freely available from dozens of Australian media organisations in direct contradiction to the many Indians claiming information about the attack is unavailable), is centered around the victim's co-workers.And here's the strange thing, that the Indian media apparently refuses to report, the victims' collegues (the prime suspects, who are being held in the case) are Indian citizens, currently in Australia for work.The motive currently considered most likeley to have been the cause of the murder is monetary, in that the victim's employer (one of the suspects) had failed to pay the victim his promised wage and had denied him as much as $9000 in wages.The victim attended a party with the suspects right before his murder, at which a dispute about the money occured which became heated. He left the party in the company of the men he was arguing with and was then found the next day, murdered, having been set alight.So due to the evidence, it appears extremely unlikely that this was a racial attack, and much more likely that he was murdered by a group of his fellow countrymen over a financial matter.All this goes unreported in India, despite all this information being freely available (it took me about two minutes on google to find this information).This suggest to me, and any rational, freethinking person, that the issue is one of crime.Indians are disporportiantley represented in assault and murder crimes in Melbourne in particular.As has been said many times, it is quite obvious to a resident or even just someone who has spent time in Melbourne as to why this is the case.Almost every single taxi driver, service station or conveniance store attendant is of Indian nationalty. These are dangerous jobs, with night shifts, and make easy targets for drunken assaults or criminality.Indian students also tend to board in unsafe neighbourhoods with problems with street crime, due to the cheapness of the rent. An affluent young Indian student, who probably has far more money in their wallet than most residents of the area, and would tend to have things such as Ipods or laptops in their posession, is a very good target for a young thug looking for someone to mug.None of this is racial, considering many of these thugs and criminals are not anglo-Australian at all (immigrant groups are disproportiantley represented in groups of young criminals on Melbourne streets). It is simply crime, and the causes of crime are usually economic (ie the people commiting them are poor and disenfranchised).Having said all, there is a problem here and it is simply that there is alot of crime in certain parts of Melbourne and Sydney streets.Sadly, this is no easy problem to fix, and I am unaware of a single country or city who have acheived the elimination of street crime in rough neighbourhoods.As an example, if a young, anglo-Australian man were robbed and murdered in a Mumbai slum, would that attack automatically be racial? Of course not, unless you're deranged.The same principle applies here.Another interesting point raised by the Australian deputy PM some time ago is that more Australians have been murdered and assaulted in India in the last few years than vice verse, more startling when you consider that far fewer Australians move to India, than Indians moving to Australia.Is that because of some deep-seated national racism on the part of India?I think that's absurd, but follwoing the Indian media's logic, that must be the case.In terms of a country being refered to as racist, that too is absurd.Countries aren't racist, people are.There is racism in Australia, India, the UK, the US, in every single country I ahve ever read about or been to. Why?Becasue racism is a human issue, not a national one. Which I would think would be patently obvious to anyone with a functioning brain.In regards to the idea that Indians are foolish to pursue education in Australia, this blatantly ignores the point, that the majority of Indian "students" are in Australia for one reason alone, to obtain residency and live out their lives in this country.It has virtually nothing to do with education and everything to do with them pursuing better opportunities in a richer country (with less crime, lower unemployemnt, better social services like healthcare, education etc).What may shcok Indians is that Australia is not some crime-free utopia, where everyone is happy all the time and welcoming.The reality is Australia is simply another country, part of the world, and shares it's problems, to varying degrees.I would like to see a solution to this problem as it pains me when Indians imply that I am racist, because a young hood mugged a young Indian student in Melbourne.The solution is a reduction in street crime, coupled with an education program for young Indians coming to this country about the risks associated with working late night jobs, living in dangerous neighbourhoods and travelling alone at night, in places an Australian who has lived here for some time would never dare go (I would never, ever, in a million years, walk across a park in Footscray late at night - if I had been in the exact same position as Mr Garg I too would now be murdered - and I'm as anglo-Australian as anyone else). Thu 14 Jan 2010 02:15:04 GMT+1 Pwoiter @ 61. Nirmalya CAre you referring to the 10% of Australians who have convict lineage, or the 90% of Australians that don't? Melbourne is the second largest Greek population city in the world after Athens. Do all of the Greeks that live here fit your profile?The reality is that statistically the killer is very unlikely to have convict blood. Having Anglo blood is a less than 50% proposition since Anglos themselves are a relatively small minority in that area. Besides, if the killer turns out to be say Somalian or Lebanese, have they picked up convict tendencies through osmosis?Personally, I like Indians and their presense in Australia has made Australia a better place. There are racists in Australia, but there are racists in America and India too; but does that mean you can label an entire race or country as racist? Finally, if you despise racial discrimination but post discriminatory comments about whites, don't be surprised if your comments aren't taken seriously. Thu 14 Jan 2010 02:14:19 GMT+1 Indian This post has been Removed Thu 14 Jan 2010 01:01:04 GMT+1 Longwinded At last a measured voice from India."Indians feel that they are in the dark about the spate of attacks."Well they are not the only ones. We in Australia are in the dark too.No, this is not a typical racist campaign. Normally physical racist attacks are the apex of a range of other racist activities. Yet we see no harassing of Indians in the street, no letters to the editors, no rallies calling for "Indians go home", there is no broad-based opposition to the presence of Indians at all. Speak to the Indian community (Australian citizens and permanent residents of Indian decent) and they don't feel any significant racism either. Yet talk to the Indian student community and they definitely feel under attack.Without wishing to be an apologist my own perspective is this. Five or ten years ago if you walked into a convenience store or petrol station you would be met by a crew made up of people of any race, both sexes, and all ages. Today crews at these enterprises are all, with almost no exceptions, made up entirely of young Indian males. Likewise taxi drivers. These occupations are poorly paid, and require working all hours, and historically have always been regarded as vulnerable to crime. Without access to cars, these students often are on the streets late at night and early in the morning. Being students they often carry laptops, being Indians they are polite, rarely putting up an aggressive show, and often flash gold jewellery as well. Now street criminals are usually stupid, but they can learn, and I feel they have learnt to profile Indian students as easy and profitable marks. And a bit of racist vitriol is useful to scare your marks, and maybe make you feel a little better about your own shit life too. Not that there is any clear profile to the attackers, they have been described as being white, Asian, Middle Eastern, Aboriginal, and Pacific Islander. Even Indians have been implicated in the past.But more recently there have been a number of these assaults where robbery does not appear to be have been the motive. I'm afraid I think the publicity surrounding the assaults has made some thugs think they have the right to attack Indians for "the fun of it".I don't know what the solution is. Melbourne by international standards is a safe city. As our police commissioner pointed out, our murder rate is half that of India's, and our street crime rate far less too. Some Indian student leaders have called for accommodation on campus and armed escorts. But do Indian students really wanted to be locked up in ghettos, only being allowed out with armed guards?But the response of the Indian press is absurd. It seems they will only be happy if we all don hair shirts and run around yelling "we are racists, we are racists". How about some constructive suggestions? Wed 13 Jan 2010 23:53:54 GMT+1 Pwoiter The murder rate in Australia is 1.2 per 100,000. In India it is 2.5 times this number. There are 70,000 Indian students in Australia. Statistically, if you take a basket of 70,000 people living in Australia, in a 12 month period there would be 0.84 murdered amongst that sample, or close to one murdered per year. This is applies to all Australians. Nitin Garg was murdered a few days ago. Can someone please tell me when the last Indian student was murdered? What I'm getting at here is if one murder represents a trend then maybe the Indian media IS being a little hysterical.I also want to comment on quotes from people saying that Australian authorities aren't taking this seriously. There have been government to government discussions about this murder. How often is there government to government discussion when a Brit is murdered in Australia, or a Somalian?Short of bringing in the armed forces, what is the government expected to do? And the police will be working diligently on this, like with all murders.In terms of providing on going protection....There are doubts that India is resourced to protect 5000 athletes housed in one section of one city in India for little over a week during the Commonwealth games. (If Britain pulls out of the games wait for the 'R' word to appear, just like the 'R' word has been used when umpiring decisions in cricket don't go their way.) And yet, Indians seem to expect that the Australian government can protect 70,000 Indian students across a land mass twice the size of India, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. How is this logistically possible?Indians need to be more careful just like the people who have lived here for generations are. Wed 13 Jan 2010 20:45:29 GMT+1 Flavian Hardcastle G'day. As an Australian, all I can say is that I am baffled. I do not have a problem with Indians. I do not know anybody who does. I do not have any theories to explain a higher assault rate among Indians in Victoria. But if I were pressed for a theory, I would note that I go to Melbourne a lot, and almost every Indian I see or meet there either ......(a) drives a taxi at night (a high assault risk job)(b) works night-shift in a convenience store (a high assault risk job)(c) is a security guard (a high assault risk job)(d) spends an inordinate amount of time on public transport (a high assault risk activity)(e) is some combination of either (a), (b) or (c), and (d).The reason that they have are overrepresented among taxi drivers, security guards and night-shift shopkeepers is because these jobs are easy to get. Some of those night-shift jobs also pay reasonably well, which is vital if you're here on a student visa, and can thus only legally work a small number of hours a week.Note that Chinese, Malaysians, Japanese, Korean and other students don't seem to be having a problem with assaults and muggings in Australia. And I suspect that the difference between these other student groups and Indians, is that they are coming to Australia with sufficient money to cover their expenses, and thus don't have to live in gangland suburbs, or work dangerous night-shift jobs. Wed 13 Jan 2010 16:41:44 GMT+1 commentorspcl This post has been Removed Wed 13 Jan 2010 16:21:08 GMT+1 lakshmi At 10:24am on 13 Jan 2010, Sherman Mc Catty wrote about racism and living with multiracial community.Mr. Mc Catty, Your comment truely depicts the life in India.Sincerely speaking, i defenitely see the racist nature with African and Chinese people on indian race. Whereever i am in USA. My chinese collegue would hardly show me a nice face every morning unlike to any white people. Many African women have been looking at me like am an alien from a monster world. Why them, when my own indian colleague hardly speak in a proffesional way.I know many whites are racist at some point but they try not to show it at face. Atleast they put up a gud smile and leave me way. But i still dont understand why African and asian community are so emotional at the same time too adamant in nature.I guess, we should first try to analyse ourselves before judging on others.If you look at people showing signs of stress, its mostly due to 2 things that were being abused in their life at some point.MONEY and SELF ESTEEM.People who were been abused for money or made to work hard for every penny had the lowest TRUST with neibouring people.A person born in a community where there had been caste divisions and division among rich and poor, has faced a lot of self-esteem abuse.They normally try to reflect their esteem in an unnecesary way when they come to a better position in life.Above all the alter-ego has been the top among the white community who still feel that they are somehow the only civilized people on earth, which has been blinding them to see the human in fellow human being from other country.Peace please. Wed 13 Jan 2010 16:12:15 GMT+1 kevin I think comment 7 makes some good points on the issue. I myself am from Scotland and lived in Sydney for 1 year recently. Most if not all of these types of attacks/abuse stem no doubt from people who are drunk/and or high on drugs. These people have an inferiority complex and are aware they will no doubt amount to very little in life themselves which fills them with hatred and envy when they see people trying to better themselves such as students. Alcohol and drugs are the outlet sadly and innocent people are at the receiving end of these cowards own bitterness for life. Wed 13 Jan 2010 15:48:27 GMT+1 MATRIXDT Do you know someone who has studied in Australia?The common thread in most of these posts FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER VISITED AUSTRALIA is that Australia is racist and still living under the 'white Australia policy'. That's laughable to someone living in Melbourne or Sydney.The average Indian student (or other nationality) who has studied in Australia will generally agree that they have experienced little if any racism, and that the Indian media is hyping the story up. They also go on to say that Indian students tend to live in poorer suburbs, work in public places and travel via public transport late at night, and generally take risks that make them softer targets of opportunistic crime.Let's stop the racist bull**** and see this for what it really is.IT'S called URBAN CRIME and it exists all over the world.I feel that the only losers here will be the Indian students who will not experience an education in Australia because of this hype.Gautam Gupta, the founder of the Indian Student group that has linked these apparently random crimes, should take a good hard look at his motives and how he may be affecting tens of thousands of his fellow students' futures! Wed 13 Jan 2010 15:21:01 GMT+1 Samelson It is very disturbing to read about the harassment of Indian students in Australia. It is even more difficult to understand the ineptness of the Police in Melbourne and Sydney. One cannot help wondering whether the police ignoring the importance if these crimes to the international standing of Australia and the future of its relationship with Asia, especially India. The origins of Australians may be the cause of this ignorant and uncultured behavior. Whatever the reason, the present Government of Australia has an obligation to protect visitors to their country and they have failed to do this. The continued expressions of excuses by the Prime Minister and his administration are disturbing. They are trying very hard to convince the world that these attacks are not race related. The more they assert this fiction, the more it becomes clear that the national Government and local police are all in this miserable episode. A few friends were planning to visit Australia and New Zealand through a tour group. Last year, we informed the tour group of our concerns based on the recent incidents involving Indian students in Australia. Nearly 40% of people signed up for trip expressed similar concerns. As a result, the tour company rearranged the planned tour so that we visit only New Zealand at this time. That is indeed good news. Wed 13 Jan 2010 14:25:27 GMT+1 Rahul 32. At 10:24am on 13 Jan 2010, Sherman Mc Catty wrote:------------------------------------------------------Mr Sherman, you are not expected to write a film script but a true opinion. If you are writting this, based at home imagining things, i advice that you read the history again to correct the factual errors and so also GENETIC errors you have mentioned.Man i cant imagine people can get so delirious. Wed 13 Jan 2010 14:05:43 GMT+1 Rahul 7. At 02:36am on 13 Jan 2010, GNS wrote: -----------------------------------------GNS wrote and wrote and wrote, i got fedup of reading. Listen mate if you love your adopted country, there is nothing wrong with it. Just because your are not white, that cant make u imparial either. Once again i will say that Indians need to come back to India but your tone that there was 400% increase is not a mistake of the Indian population or a crime they did not come there illegeally.So bottom line, change your outlook and try to listen to what others are saying. Agreed matter might be hyped up by media, but the proof of pudding is people are getting killed !!! Wed 13 Jan 2010 13:51:46 GMT+1 commentorspcl This post has been Removed Wed 13 Jan 2010 13:38:15 GMT+1 Makarand What Mr.Biswas has written about are just plain facts that Indians have been attacked in Australia and that the Australian govt. and the Police are taking it lightly but what is the solution for this. It is now high time that India also should have world class educational institutions so that our children can do various courses in these institutes of course at high fees which Indian students are paying for colleges in Australia or U.K. or U.S.A. and the admission procedure should be more simpler like without an entrance exam and without prescribing any minimum graduation percentage students should be able to do the courses of their choice for getting knowledge after that let the students progress in their fields. Wed 13 Jan 2010 13:36:28 GMT+1 Caterina Indians ugly? No, we from Europe can hardly understand the reasons of killings und attacks on descendents of the most ancient and the most respectable civilisation which is INDIAN CIVILISATION! No argument can explain such atrocities!!! SHAME on you, crimminels! Wed 13 Jan 2010 13:27:05 GMT+1 mitty_w Racism is present in all societies. The fault of Australia is that they've not found the guilty. The fault with Indians is that they still haven't become alert to the fact that they are potential targets and not acting carefully. And the less said about the Indian media and the irresponsible Foreign minister who talks about "students going for hairdressing courses" the better. Frankly, that is none of Mr. Krishna's business. How were the murderers of the Staines family treated? On par with politicians in jail is my guess. Wed 13 Jan 2010 13:19:48 GMT+1 spring I see following reasons for attack on indian in australia.1. Large number of indian migrated to aus for study in last 2 years.It is about .15million in two cities syd and melbourne. It might irked sudden increased in indian population to many local in these cities. 2. Indian living and working late night in poor and unsafe place.3. Poor communication and rude, and loud behavoiur of some of indian.4. Australia hate outsourcing and india is of the country got more benefit of it. Most of australian hate india because of call centre and outsourcing jobs.5. Indian are easy target because of indian traveling alone and look weak.6. Local losing job because of Indian students and recession.7. Indian reputation in the world also not good enough. Indian are consider as filty, ugly and castiest. 8. Alcohol and drug abuse by few thugs.9. Robbers know they will get something if they attack indian and some for fun.10. I am not saying all australian as racist but some of them are and they show their true colour at public. Racist is also one of the reason. If you go by comments/reactions to attack on many websites, i must say 90% of australian are racist. may be i am wrong.. Wed 13 Jan 2010 12:59:03 GMT+1 WaltOz gherota, please advise which rivers you saw full of water going into the ocean, were they near any of the major cities, and did you know if the part of the river you saw was the tidal part or water was actually coming from inland?Any idea why Australia might be building desalination plants in almost every major city? are those billions of dollars being spent just to scare off immigrants? I don't believe that part of your post so the rest of it can't be trusted either. Wed 13 Jan 2010 12:06:44 GMT+1 Pwoiter Racism exists in Australia, Britain and India. It permeates everywhere and has always been there. I have no doubts that race plays a part in some crimes in all countries, including AustraliaHowever....Whatever city you live in, imagine the area with the worst reputation. People live there because the can't afford to live somewhere nice. It is full of refugees, unemployed, drug dealers and gangs. Violence and alcohol go hand in hand. This is an area where taking public transport at night is dangerous, where walking through a park late at night is a form of Russian roulette.Most of you would be able to picture an area like that in your city. I have just described Footscray, where Nitin Garg met his fate, whilst walking through a poorly lit park late at night. People who hang around in parks like this late at night are not categorised by race. They are either victim or attacker.I know this because I used to live in Footscray. I was there more than 20 years ago but even then, I would not walk through parks at night, and would not take public transport there at night. It was dangerous then and it is dangerous now.Unfortunately, Indian students are in the 18-25 year old demographic that gets into trouble everywhere, are less streetwise and are more prone to being in the wrong place at the wrong time such as public transport or parks late at night. But they are also typically taxi drivers, service station attendants, or fast food workers doing night shift. These are the jobs that Australians don't want to do. Having said this, Indians work along side white teenagers at fast food joints who are earning pocket money. I now live in a nice suburb, but every Friday and Saturday night parents are driving to pick up their kids after their shift because walking home is unsafe. Indians are more likely to take the more dangerous option.Indians students probably do get attacked more than the average white Australian, and yes some attacks may be race based. But Australia does not have a monopoly on this practice. Indian students are a particular demographic that is more likely to get into trouble, but not necessarily because of skin colour.You could compare the statistics of attacks against Indians versus the number of attacks against taxi drivers and probably get similar numbers. Is there a problem with violence against taxi drivers? You bet. Is this because many are Indian? I'm not so sure. Based on the 2006 census, 49.3% of people who live in Footscray were not born in Australia. In its frenzy, the Indian media has already concluded that this is a racial attack by an Anglo Aussie. They can picture a sunburnt, tattoed Anglo Aussie with a beer in his hand. Anglo Aussies represent an ever decreasing minority in Footscray. Of the people who were born there, many are the children of Greek and Italian immigrants from the 50s and 60s. No convict DNA there I'd suggest, and no involvement in Australia'd shameful policies in the past.There was no witness to this crime and no murder weapon has been found. And yet this has been labelled as a racial hate crime. Any comments from Australian authorities that there is no evidence to suggest a racial element are howled down by the Indian media. The fact is, we don't know. If it is a race based murder, there is a strong possibility it is a gang or someone who imported their hate of Indians with them from a far away land. When the Serb and Croatian fans start rioting again at the Australian Tennis Open next week we'll be reminded of this problem.It is well known that knife attacks are on the rise in Britain. Australia has the same problem. Is it race? You tell me. Wed 13 Jan 2010 11:48:33 GMT+1 Ashok As a bystander in USA,reading blogs about recent murders in Australia,to me the general sound is clear that Australians are not discriminating.Certainly."Envy" seems to the cause of criminals in general,not Australians.Indians any where(Even in America)are known to make good money by any means,even by overstretching themselves or by ignoring the dignity.Naturally it becomes the cause of ENVY of any one,particularly poorers.THIS I AM TELLING FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE HERE IN USA,WHERE GENERAL AMERICAN PUBLIC IS GENEROUS AND CO.OPERATING.The fault lies with us, we,INDIANS and we need to improve upon it.They must desist greed and ambition. Wed 13 Jan 2010 11:43:05 GMT+1