Comments for en-gb 30 Thu 02 Oct 2014 12:28:12 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at matti76 Simo429 - thank you. It is hypocritical of Clough's family to complain that his name is being dragged through the mud. Not that I see much evidence that that's the case, anyway.Clough never thought twice about making derogatory, personal, and unpleasant remarks about anyone, and his ignorant rant about Hillsbrough was probably the lowest, especially given that he saved it to use as the obligatory 'controversial' chapter in his autobiography. What price the feelings of 96 families where there are serialisation rights to discuss, eh, Brian? Tue 07 Apr 2009 18:53:03 GMT+1 Miles_Hill I have both read the book and recently seen the film. The performances from Martin Sheen, Timothy Spall and Jim Broadbent are excellent as one would expect and it is quite watchable but, as previous contributors have noted, lacks the depth of the book. I can see why the Clough family are not happy with his portrayal, but Billy Bremner's kin must be furious, a hard wee player he may have been, but also supremely skilful and energetic, a great captain. No - one seemed to complain about his 'ytigerish' attitude when he was captaining Scotland. Finally, the end credits detail Clough's success in Europe with Notts Forest .. nothing wrong with that but I can't help wishing that there was also mention of the fact that after their disastrous start to the '74 season under Brian, Leeds went on under Jimmy Armfield to finish fourth in the League that year and reach the final of the European Cup, only to be denied victory in that competition by an outrageously biased ref, for who's behaviour on the day Eufa later felt compelled to make a formal apology! Whew .. got that off my chest :-) Tue 07 Apr 2009 08:51:46 GMT+1 Mistern Having this film, it seems to me that while Clough was portrayed in a reasonable light and Peter Taylor was the hero of the film, one couldn't say the same about the Leeds team of the early '70s! They where portrayed as an ugly, dirty team! I'm not sure if any fans of that side would agree with that! In fact I might point out that while the film described Don Revie as a failure with England, he is still pretty muched loved at Leeds as is that team if you talk to any Leeds fan! Fri 03 Apr 2009 09:27:42 GMT+1 brisolbilly Having seen the film I have to say that it was a brilliant piece of cinema. having also read all of the above comments I have to say that the truth must, without regret or sense of displeasure, make way for the congenial telling of legend and myth, stories of a very special person who is sadly lacking in the modern world of football. If I were to gain anything from reading the book and watching the film it is that all involved in both have come out with a love of this deeply flawed genius that shows utself in every chapter and scene. I for one am glad this film was made. My partner, who does not like football, was enthralled and enchanted by the chracters involved. And that, football lovers everywhere, is what the point of a good story is. Tue 31 Mar 2009 21:38:41 GMT+1 Dekeyboy I have had a onerous relationship with The Damned United. As an avid Nottingham Forest Fan, therefore a Brian Clough devotee, I strugggled to approach the novel, largely due to its controversy. I almost didn't want to read it, as if I'd become offended if I didn't like what I read. However, with the ongoing publicity surrounding Clough himself in the past three months, a documentary here, a new piece of writing there, and of course, the film, I decided to get over myself. I completed the novel in a few days, and despite still struggling to deny subjects that I liked to think I knew about, I thouroghly enjoyed it, for what it is. A mans idealisation and interpritation of an icon. The film was even more difficult to comprehend. On watching it, I had both my own opinions, and the novel fresh in my mind. Yet agian, once I got over myself, and took the film for what it was, I thouroghly enjoyed it. I can totally understand and respect the views of the Clough family, echoed by comments such as blitheringbrooks, stated above, but for myself, Joe Public and anybody else, I suggerst that you break down the barriers and allow yourself you experience both the film and the novel. I think we could all benefit from remembering one line that resounds from the article; ...are any films based on real events 100% accurate?As a footnote to this, I would like to congratulate the actors in the film, especially Timothy Spall, whose performance, in my opinon was astounding! Tue 31 Mar 2009 10:56:29 GMT+1 WIGHT88 I always thought Billy Bremner was a white man? Mon 30 Mar 2009 21:25:55 GMT+1 caslad63 Its not hard to understand why Cl;oughie was hated by the players, only weeks before he came he had said " Lorimer couldn't kick his way out of a rice paper bag" and other criticism aimed at the players. Mon 30 Mar 2009 15:08:56 GMT+1 Spondulex I watched BOTH the film and the ITV programme on Brian Clough (on Sunday 29.03.09). I have TWO observations:1. The Film's (sub) titles showing that he was the only manager to win 2 (successive) European Cups was incorrect. Bob Paisley did it with Liverpool prior to that.2. The singing of the National Anthem at the Charity Shield showed Micahel Sheen (as Clough) NOT singing. Whenever Clough was on television as a commentator, I was struck by his BE PROUD stance. ("And take your hands out of your pockets" - to Trevor Francis whom he had bought for a million pounds. I am a sure that Brian Clough would have INSISTED on ALL his players singing the National Anthem (compare Rugby Union's players in the Six Nations), and I am equally sure that he himself would have been singing proudly too. Mon 30 Mar 2009 12:27:17 GMT+1 TheOneVoiceOfReason Am I alone in thinking Michael Sheen's portrayal of Clough is terrible?All I see is a Tony Blair impersonator doing a "camp" impersonation of Brian Clough. He hasn't got him at all.As for Timothy Spall as Peter Taylor don't get me started!The book and the film are a disgraceful attack on a football icon.I'm not surprised his family are upset. We all would be too if anybody produced such inaccurate drivel about our Dad/Grandpa/Husband/Brother Sun 29 Mar 2009 17:50:02 GMT+1 twobob Not just the greatest England Football manager England never had but I'd argue the greatest politician the United Kingdom never had. This is a slightly tongue in cheek comment and possibly extending the point of this blog, but having read Tom Hamilton's book a few weeks ago and watched the ITV programme the other night, if nothing else the topic of "Brian Clough" is truly captivating, so over the coming weeks I'll look for a copy of the book and take the missus out to the local cinema to watch the film. The question all of us have no doubt pondered is why was this man who had an obvious passion for the game that few of us can fathom not be given a fair go at managing a top side and then given the opportunity to move onto the ultimate goal of managing the national side? The ITV programme stated he had 95% of public vote for the job so was he just too dangerous? Not just in football terms but imagine if England would've won the World Cup in 1982 with Cloughie at the helm, would the outcome of the Miners strike in 1984 of been the same if he'd of been asked his opinion at this time?Sorry to take it off topic slightly but one of the reasons we look back to the past is to right the wrongs, so in reference to this topic of the "Damned United" its good to see people are prepared to promote and protect the legacy of this National Hero. Sun 29 Mar 2009 11:02:46 GMT+1 Parmogobbler Why concentrate on the 44 days of rife when people refused to allow Cloughie to do his job?Why not concentrate on the many positives he had?Is the whole idea to knock his character?Why did his son Nigel turn his back on this detrious?'Cloughie' What made him so endearing is elusive to explain, This tyrant in a sweatshirt, barking orders in the rain. Today he'd offer vitriol, tomorrow marzipan, A paradox, a puzzle but a diamond of a man. When the gods apportioned modesty, one youngster wasn't there, He was in the queue marked 'confidence' receiving twice his share, With two good feet beneath him, he considered it enough And so was born the bantam-cock we knew as Brian Clough. Young Cloughie did things his way for no one showed him how, Emerging from the back-streets like a blossom on a bough, Becoming proud and peerless as a hero of his time And then, one tackle later, down and out at twenty-nine. Where others might have wilted or nestled in their grief, Cloughie found salvation in his cocky self belief, Come setback or adversity, a man is still a man, So it was as one dream ended that another one began. Reality was Hartlepool, the lowest of them all, In the fourth division basement with their backs against the wall, All patchwork roofs and puddles and frostbite in the shade, It was hard and it was humbling but the boy would learn his trade. Along came Peter Taylor and the dug-out was complete, Two canny minds would meet and merge to share the judgement seat, Two mop-and-bucket soldiers to pound a broken drum But the cavalry would gather and the glory days would come. For Cloughie had a quality no training can provide, The gift of lending common men a jauntiness of stride, Players tapped abilities they didn't know were there And good ones climbed to greatness on a goading and a glare. Cloughie's team played football in the manner meant to be, A joy for those who wore his shirt and those who came to see, No arguments, no ego-trips, no stars to shine alone As Cloughie scolded, Cloughie scowled… and loved them as his own. For behind the bullish phrases, all the arrogance and pride, There beat a kindly human heart as deep as it was wide, Deserving of an epitaph significant but sad… Just the greatest England manager that England never had. Now that is much nearer the truth, or should we not let facts get in the way of a good story? Sun 29 Mar 2009 09:32:50 GMT+1 eddiethelastwaltz I was brought up opposite Elland Road Stadium and was in the West Stand car park when Clough arrived. The clips I have seen from 'The Damned United' are eerily evocative of those distant and troubled times at Leeds. The Fullerton Park training pitches, the West-Stand facia with the club crest and legendary 'Leeds United AFC' signage have been cleverly recreated and evoke fond memories of my only face to face 'meeting' with Mr Clough. I used to deliver a crate of milk to the ground on matchdays and passed mr Clough in a corridor which led to the pitch. He held a door open for me and pointed at a bird-pecked bottletop on one of the bottles of milk " I hope you haven't been pecking at my milk young man " he said with a wink. Sun 29 Mar 2009 07:19:16 GMT+1 1978 Shoot league ladders The book is a kind of parody of Clough's public image and not insulting at all. I don't know why someone would be sued for something that occurs in a work of fiction. Can't wait to see the film. Sun 29 Mar 2009 02:26:23 GMT+1 evenflow_1981 In regards to Simo429s comments, I think Clough was entitled to his opinions on Hillsborough, and bearing in mind Liverpool fans behaviour in Heysel, you can see how he and I'm sure a lot of people would jump to the conclusion that Liverpool fans were to blame for the incident. Clough was reknowned for voicing his opinion and was very reactionary, I don't think his comments were malicious or meant to hurt anyone, just him giving his honest opinion. He apologised over any offence called and I think what he said was minor compared to the bile that 'The Sun' was printing. Not going to start pointing fingers over the Hillsborough incident as in my opinion it was a tragic accident that had a number of contributing factors. But forgiveness is two-way street, if you can't forgive Clough for a few ill-judged comments, do you think it fair that Juventus fans forgive Liverpool supporters for the moronic actions of a select minority? Back on topic I've seen the film and its a lot warmer potrayel of Clough than the book. I can see why Cloughs family may want to watch it, but I think they should as it captures Cloughs irrepressible personality as best as a film could hope to, even if its not 100% accurate (To be honest what film adaption ever is?). Also, I'm glad theres footage of Peter Taylor at teh end, so people realise he looked nothing like Timothy Spall! Sat 28 Mar 2009 16:47:08 GMT+1 iknowwhatilike This post has been Removed Sat 28 Mar 2009 16:03:24 GMT+1 vince smeaton Can't say I disagree with much that's been said here. The article gives a good sence of the film. Michael sheen looks incredibly like the man. Yes why not a trilogy...he deserves it. And also yes some stuff about the later years. Let's face it Brian Clough is a dream for a script writer like Ali for instance because all the great lines have been written for you. His appearance on an Independant TV footie show when he refused to talk about the match, but insisted on telling everyone about how his coach was stopped and searched on returning to Nottingham during the miners strike...or the unorthodox pre match preparation for the Europen Cup final. A dream.I have not read the book either, but in terms of any family and how their much loved relation are is their choice to decide if they like it or not and indeed a very sensitive issue. Sat 28 Mar 2009 14:41:31 GMT+1 King-Dion I always admired Brian Clough and, like him, had little or no respect for Don Revie's Leeds team. Brian Clough captured the imagination of all followers of football in the 1970's with his wit, personality and outspoken views. I shall look forward to seeing the film, knowing that no-one like Brian Clough will be able to be so successful in English football again. Sat 28 Mar 2009 14:19:54 GMT+1 Riggadon Forest fan. Have'nt read the book, not sure if I want to after some of the things I've heard about it. Will definitely be seeing the film though, as the clips I've seen so far are humorous to say the least. I think the film will be much more to my own taste than the book, so I am looking forward to seeing it. Whatever the Clough family wish to do is on them, I dont think it needs to be a big issue to be honest. Sat 28 Mar 2009 11:19:19 GMT+1 Joe Posts #5 and #15 - you are right. The book by David Peace is excellent. I also read it in less than a day as I could not put it down. Regardless of all the proven inaccuracies and unprovable 'scenes' it is a haunting snapshot of the blown-up egos that dominated and still dominate football.My Mother was the one who told me to read the book as she wanted to know if 'succesful' men really were that subservient to their hormones and their conflicting, insatiable wills to be (a) right ALL the time and (b) win ALL the time. I had to tell her that unfortunately that was, and still is, the case. Directors, Owners and the Senior Management of clubs would rather be 'right' and not win anything than 'wrong' and win because of someone else's efforts. The people in charge of the England FA never appointed Clough as Manager for the simple reason they would rather NEVER win anything than win something with Clough in charge as they would look foolish. The same applies to the appointment of Steve McClaren. Anyone wishing to sue me for libel please contact me.Post #6 - by your definitions and standards it would not be possible to write or say anything about anyone in case it offended them. Cloughie stuck his head above the parapet and took criticism on the chin like the real northern man he was. I am hardly surprised his family are not impressed by the book as it shows a darker side of Clough that only they and close friends would know about but to quote Cromwell at least he was showm 'warts and all' and came across as a human being and not a titan.Post #13 - My compliments on your moniker. I wish I had thought of 'Voice of Joe' even thought it sounds a tad pretentious but your down to earth and accurate comments would indicate you are not.I cannot wait to see the film when I come back to the UK next month.Regards, Joe. Sat 28 Mar 2009 11:16:05 GMT+1 markfrombilbao Perhaps "donpittodrie" should check his dictionary before making scathing comments about other people's bad use of English. The sixth acceptation of the word "exercise" in Collins Concise Dictionary is "to occupy the attentions of somebody so as to worry or vex e.g. to be exercised about a decision". The fact that somebody uses a meaning of the word that you don't know doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. By the way, the book was stunning - looking forward to seeing the film. Sat 28 Mar 2009 11:13:24 GMT+1 donpittodrie What is "seems to have been exercising some people" supposed to mean? It doesn't make sense! Even if you meant to say exorcising it still wouldn't have been the correct word. Why not just say annoying, or upsetting? When you write for the BBC you ought to have a better command of English! Sat 28 Mar 2009 10:12:52 GMT+1 Simo429 wouldnt give the self publicising idiot the time of dayhe should never be forgiven for his hillsborough comments that took 12 years to be took back Sat 28 Mar 2009 10:07:56 GMT+1 RadebeRaver88 why would friends and family enjoy a film that shows clough in every scene with a drink and fag in his hands, showing that his assistant was the brains of the operation and then goes on to beg him to join him st forest???damned utd is what is says, damning.i will be goin to see the film just to see how inaccurate it is. i listened to martin o'neills view on 5live, he believes it should be taken with a pinch of salt, i can see why the clough family will not be goin and why johnny giles succesfully sued david pearce over the novel!! Fri 27 Mar 2009 23:39:02 GMT+1 captainmagenta Well actually that documentary was on BBC1 a couple of nights ago after the news and was highly entertaining.I thumbed through the book when it came out and was intrigued but I must say a litttle uneasy about the fact that it was known to deviate from the truth. I agree that 'poetic license' has to be employed when making a movie based on real events - as Tony Wilson once said "If it's a choice between the truth and the legend, print the legend", although Cloughie was pretty legendary to begin with of course.But the 'faction' movie that blew me away was The King of Scotland - such a highly entertaining film and amazing story that afterwards I had to google James McAvoy's character Nicholas Garrigan to find out what had become of the guy in real life. Imagine my surprise to discover that this guy never existed and was in fact a 'composite' character. That, to me, is a bit odd because I thought I was watching a film about real events that happened around Idi Amin. I guess the equivilent situation here might have Leeds United being relegated to Div 2 with Cloughie at the helm... I dunno. Fri 27 Mar 2009 21:22:39 GMT+1 LaUrFmC Fiction. Faction. Biopic. Shmiopic.Why is everybody banging on about this being 'controversial' or 'factually inaccurate' - personally speaking if it wasn't controversial there'd be little point in making it and if it was factually accutate it would be a documentary stuck on BBC4 in the early hours. I hope the film is as entertaining as the book, and that all the people moaning about it get the Da Vinci Code on DVD for their birthday. Fri 27 Mar 2009 19:52:41 GMT+1 cheeky_nffc this film seems to be a point of controversy for many people but i've seen enough to be looking forward to seeing it.the madness of brian has always been fabulous entertainment and, as forest fans, we were fortunate enough to enjoy the fruit of that madness. if done well, a biopic of cloughie should be excellent entertainment.i think brians friends and family can make their own decision on whether to watch it or not though. Fri 27 Mar 2009 18:59:27 GMT+1 JamieW I have to ask the guy from comment 6 - have you read the book?Well I have and greatly enjoyed it, I personally don't think that Clough's reputation was sullied by it (unless I've missed something) anything that could be viewed as 'controversial' was pretty much what I thought was common knowledge. If anything the Leeds players & board, as well as the hierarchy at Derby County and Peter Taylor himself come off a lot worse. I'm planning on seeing the film, my Dad still tells stories of the Leeds team of the 70s and it was interesting to read a different viewpoint. Fri 27 Mar 2009 18:26:22 GMT+1 Cheshian I felt the book was part of David Peace's bitter faction memories of Yorkshire..but the film...well ok there is some invention but its fun! Brian Clough was THE most enigmatic manager in the last 50 years. His comments were often witty..and the film portrays this... and anyone who followed football at the time remembers 'Dirty Leeds'.. To me the film is a warm hearted tribute and Michael Sheen excels. The Simon Austin blog is spot on. I also thought the ITV programme was excellent.. the interview of Austin Mitchell with Revie and Clough brilliant! I hope people forget about any factual discrepancies.. Enjoy the film! Fri 27 Mar 2009 17:41:41 GMT+1 VoiceofJoe Saw the film this morning, having previously read the book. Very enjoyable. Michael Sheen is quite outstanding as Clough, as is Timothy Spall as Taylor. Colm Meaney was also very, very good as The Don, although I was half-expecting his wig to slide off and start a diatribe involving 'warp coils' at any given moment.Although clearly a work of fiction, it is based on real characters and real events and I would have thought Billy Bremner's family would be quite upset at the depiction of Billy as a one dimensional malevolently cynical character .I always liked Clough but I always found it strange that despite his repeated references to the 'beautiful game' that he wanted his teams to play (in contrast to how he saw Leeds) his Nottm Forest sides that were so successful, were a more functional mirror of the great Leeds sides of the 70' - and in John Robertson he even found his own (less talented) Eddie Gray ! Fri 27 Mar 2009 17:02:47 GMT+1 Friendlycard I'm really looking forward to the film. The book was brilliantly written - I literally could not put it down until I finished it, at 3 a.m.! - but it doesn't claim to be a factual documentary. Fri 27 Mar 2009 16:52:04 GMT+1 Bortron Saw the film today, and it really is excellent, and a very warm and affectionate tribute to Brian Clough. Fri 27 Mar 2009 16:47:34 GMT+1 Alan Harris Brian Clough was a hero of mine, so when Nigel said he didnt want to watch it, that was enough for me, but having seen some previews I just know I will end up getting it out on DVD when it comes out, Cloughie was a genius and is a joy to watch, even in the form of a tribute act Fri 27 Mar 2009 16:07:50 GMT+1 paul hewson A brillant book, probably one of the best around.Will not please those ex-rugger fans who found "footy" in 1996, but who cares.Hopefully the truth about the nasty side of football hasnt been missed out in the film.If people want to see happy go lucky and unrealistic films, they should stick to Harry Potter and the Goblins at the bottom of my garden...... Fri 27 Mar 2009 16:03:44 GMT+1 Maradona Can't wait to see the film. Unlike Kentspur (post 1), I really enjoyed the book and flew through it in a matter of days. I'd recommend it to anyone with a passing interest in Clough's career. I feel for Clough's family in terms of the fact that it must be hard to read about a loved one in a fictional tale - especially when they are frequently painted in a not too pleasant light. However they should accept that it's (in a funny way) an honour that such a book could be so successful and admired - and this is mainly down to the draw that Clough has. This is even amongst people who never experienced the real glory days like myself at age 29. I'm sure the film is also cracking. Here's to the greatest manager that England never had. *On a side note, I thought the ITV programme the other night was pretty rubbish myself - apart from archive footage of Clough, which is still side-splittingly hilarious today. Fri 27 Mar 2009 15:55:30 GMT+1 chrisbriddon Re comment 4I think the problem is that most people will read the book / watch the film and assume that the content is factual, very few will take it with the pinchof salt and artistic license that it deserves. Fri 27 Mar 2009 15:55:00 GMT+1 blitheringbrooks Surely books and films about dead heroes ought to be more respectful?perhaps you should watch a film about your dead father being portrayed in a fictional way but masquerading as fact? Would you like that?Yeah, I'd love to see my dead fathers name dragged around in the muck by someone just after a quick buck by using one of histories finest managers to lure people in. Fictional books and films about factual events are not worth their salt in general, one of this ire is just ridiculous.Frankly, how dare you suggest that Clough's family should 'just see it as the novel it is' That comment sickens me. Fri 27 Mar 2009 15:46:12 GMT+1 greysweetalkinguy The book was excellent. It took as its starting-point the kind of "revelations" which player "autobiographies" specialise in, and contrasted those with what might well have been happening on the inside. It was an "antidote" to "Rooney - My life" and similar books. It is no shock that the Clough family did not like it too much, nor the Leeds players. Perhaps it might have been better if it was a little more deeply disguised, stressing the "novel" aspect rather than the biographical.It was a convenient peg on which to hang a "biopic". The film wisely stresses that aspect. It is similar to Frost/Nixon, in which Michael Sheen also appears. There too things happened in the film which did not happen in reality. That is the way of a "biopic": if everything is the kosher truth, then there is no need for a biopic, you can watch a documentary instead. Also, there are many people still around who can remember Brian Clough on the telly. The producer of the film obviously had a film which he wanted to shoot, and the success of the book gave him the opportunity. It is neither the first or the last time that a film will diverge from "the truth" and the book it is supposedly based on. Perhaps it was a little short on personal relationships with wife/family/colleagues, but that would be fertile ground for libel lawyers.The book and film are enjoyable on their own merits. They touch on a real person with real problems in his own personal life. As good creative art should do, they provide pointers to one's own life. One cannot expect more than that. Fri 27 Mar 2009 15:44:17 GMT+1 HantsCricketFan The success of the book is the fact that it is loosely based on the fact and more on what the author 'wants' to believe about Cloughie but there's nothing wrong with that. The book is after all a novel and not a biography and does not claim to be. I've just about finished reading the novel (day 39) and have enjoyed it far more than I expected as fictional or not it brings life into a book and film genre that is traditionally pretty barren (Gregory's Girl being the notable exception). Personally i'm looking forward to going to see the film and although I can understand the Clough families concerns over his portrayal perhaps they should just see it as the novel it is? Fri 27 Mar 2009 15:20:02 GMT+1 mobypimpdrop We could do a trilogy! That'd be brilliant! Fri 27 Mar 2009 15:01:05 GMT+1 gloucesterite21 Simon, whilst your article is a good one you need to understand that it is the choice of the Clough family if they wish to see this film.I know it is not like the book, but if Nigel and the family don't wish to see it then we should respect their wishes.Maybe a film should be done in the future about Brian Clough's successes with Nottingham Forest and Derby County? Fri 27 Mar 2009 14:47:04 GMT+1 Things were better under Harold Wilson I tried to read the book of The Damned United and wondered what the heck I'd stumbled into about twenty pages in. Pretentious rubbish.Despite this unpleasant experience, I will go and see the film. Even the clips that have filtered out show Michael Sheen 'doing' Clough will be worth the price of admission. Fri 27 Mar 2009 14:46:49 GMT+1