http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/douglasfraser/2009/06/shipyard_closure_threat.html en-gb 30 Sun 27 Dec 2009 14:30:07 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/douglasfraser/2009/06/shipyard_closure_threat.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/douglasfraser/2009/06/shipyard_closure_threat.html?page=17#comment7 On the plus side, it'll do wonders for our carbon footprint. Thu 02 Jul 2009 08:41:38 GMT+1 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/douglasfraser/2009/06/shipyard_closure_threat.html?page=15#comment6 I think that me6677 is fairly accurate in his assessment of the future composition of the Royal Navy. The new carriers will be mothballed and sold off when it becomes apparent that they are too expensive to operate. They will probably operate defunct Harriers for a few years and then be withdrawn at the same time as the aircraft, the F35 having been cancelled on cost grounds.As I have said before, the Navy should have realised 10 years ago what they were getting into and settled for a viable number of destroyers/frigates, fleet submarines, amphibious ships (including 2/3 small "flat tops" which could each have been built for not much more than a frigate)and auxiliaries. As it is, they will probably end up with nothing.The Astutes and the Trident replacement may well be the last submarines to be built in Britain, and the only hope for the surface fleet is the procurement of a low-cost light frigate/corvette which could be built in reasonable numbers. Future auxiliaries will probably be chartered merchant ships. An dreadful prospect, but no real surprise. Wed 01 Jul 2009 22:35:49 GMT+1 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/douglasfraser/2009/06/shipyard_closure_threat.html?page=12#comment5 A visit to Ulsteinvik in Norway would show our business innovators and policy making movers and shakers what can be done outwith the gnawing dependency culture that is continued reliance on defence work in support of a spent (in more ways than one) empire. In a harbour on a small island far from Oslo, Bergen & Stavanger - all aspects of commercial ship construction are there to be seen, including the world HQ of Roll Royce Marine, which encompasses companies like Bergen Diesel(engines)and the Edinburgh innovators, Brown Brothers (stabilisers).It really does show what independent states of approximately 5 million folk can get up to when given their head and full access to their natural resources, and intellectual assets of course. I think you should take a look Douglas. Wed 01 Jul 2009 12:06:05 GMT+1 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/douglasfraser/2009/06/shipyard_closure_threat.html?page=10#comment4 Calling them super-carriers is a bit of a stretch - they're nowhere near the capacity of the American Nimitz class. The lack of nuclear power on them is a serious design weakness - it makes them slow, more dependent on refuelling and means they can't use steam catapults for the aircraft.The Type 45 is just a floating Maginot Line.In all seriousness, the UK should just buy the big stuff from the Americans (or whoever) and set its self-sufficiency goals to something more realistic, like missiles, vehicles and small arms. Wed 01 Jul 2009 08:32:22 GMT+1 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/douglasfraser/2009/06/shipyard_closure_threat.html?page=7#comment3 It isn't just Glasgow and Portsmouth under threat. The shipyards at Appledore, Rosyth and Hebburn are also involved in this work.And no WeeScamp. It isn't excessive taxation that has killed British merchant shipbuilding. The reason it has declined is that we can't compete against the heavy subsidies given to shipbuilding in other countries. Wed 01 Jul 2009 05:48:17 GMT+1 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/douglasfraser/2009/06/shipyard_closure_threat.html?page=5#comment2 This is part of a step by step plan to end warship building in the UK all together with eventual disbanding of the Royal Navy. A recent think tank report reommended cutting the Type 45 destroyers , carriers and Astute submarines from future defence plans leaving NO NEW Warships for the UK! Another bombshell likely to appear is the disbanding of the army units in Germany and cutting troop numbers down to below 48,000 from 98,000 currently.This leaves the RAF next for the chop. Hints are already flying that the new A400 transport plane will be cancelled along with next generation of air tankers.Ths Joint Strike Foighter also will be cancelled along with cutting the Typhoon Euro Fighter from 232 to 96 and cutting number off training aircraft by 50%.The projected level of strength for the armed forces would be roughtly as follows;Army 48,000 manpower with 200 tanks and 600 other armed vehicles.Royal navy 11,000 manpower 4 type 45 destroyers , 8 Type 23 Frigates and 3 Astute Subs plus 2 ampibious assult ships and 12 smaller vessels.RAF 11,000 manpower 96 Euro Fighters and some 130 other transport , training and search rescue.Not much to defend the UK from a re-arming Russia and no voice in the world at large . Those figures are not likely to see the end of the defence cuts but are long term targets to be reached in the next couple of years Tue 30 Jun 2009 23:55:57 GMT+1 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/douglasfraser/2009/06/shipyard_closure_threat.html?page=2#comment1 "What I've just learned", Douglas? You and every newspaper in Scotland, we might be told a little more accurately.Apart from the BBC claiming this to be exclusive when it isn't, the issue for the two Clyde yards isn't what happens in five years' time, but whether the aircraft carrier orders will actually be confirmed and completed. the defence lobby is completely split on the project, and the MoD is under enormous pressure to cut budgets. Tue 30 Jun 2009 23:10:38 GMT+1 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/douglasfraser/2009/06/shipyard_closure_threat.html?page=0#comment0 Inevitable I suppose. After all, the union is bust because Gordon's spent all our pennies on saving the banks. So no nice new warships.. But hey, we could of course build merchant vessels on the Clyde.. Oh but of course we're told we can't compete with Scandinavia, Germany, France or indeed anywhere else.... Why's that I wonder? Couldn't possibly have anything to do with our ridiculous levels of taxation could it? Tue 30 Jun 2009 22:34:44 GMT+1