Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html en-gb 30 Sun 02 Aug 2015 11:01:32 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html C U Next Tuesday Sam http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=99#comment107 # 106I think you're going off the point a little with the hooliganism theory and its just heresay anyway regarding the seeding..I think that those minority fans are a disgrace and I am embarrassed to be even slightly associated with them by nationality, as should you by representatives of Scotland in Manchester last year (thanks to "bedlam is cool" in post #107). Incidentally I was witness to all that as I live in Manchester...I basically just want to say that England fans don't spend every day of their lives angry about Maradona's cheating goal - its only when articles and blogs like this are produced that it stirs up the memories of how we were cheated out of that goal and I can't ever find it acceptable or forgivable thats all.But to elaborate on your point, in 1982 England hardly had an easy group which included France (beaten by West Germany in Semi-final) and Czechoslovakia and still managed to get through to the next stage..I hope Scotland do make it through to the later stages of a World Cup one day and just can't understand why the majority of the Scots don't share the same sentiment towards England - you've no reason to hate us! Thu 27 Nov 2008 12:42:35 GMT+1 bedlam_is_cool http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=98#comment106 Possibly as proud as the Scots who trashed Manchester at last seasons UEFA Cup Final last May?And just for the record:-1. My Mum is a Scot2. Despite that I am an avid England fan3. I am not a Man Utd fan Thu 27 Nov 2008 01:52:19 GMT+1 thesecretalchemist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=97#comment105 Banky75 at #105Scotland's failure to get out of the group at the World Cup is infuriating - I could go my whole lifetime without seeing it happen - but you are a having a laugh to claim England's successes and failures are down to ability alone.England won the World Cup in 1966, and did nothing for years after that, failing to even qualify in 1974 and 1978. They show up in Spain, in 1982, after nearly two decades in the wilderness, and are mysteriously seeded. Only it is not much of a mystery, as the hooligan problem is at its height, and the Spanish authorities want England seeded so they have advance knowledge of where they are to be based and so can get a head start on security measures. So England as seeds get a more favourable draw than Scotland, based not on footballing ability, but the 'efforts' of the tubby, snaggle-toothed big girl's blouses who love throwing plastic chairs across cobbled squares at Belgian grannies and Luxembourg shoppers. That leads to better results, a better co-efficient, more seeding...England. You must be so proud. Wed 26 Nov 2008 18:37:21 GMT+1 C U Next Tuesday Sam http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=96#comment104 #70 Its ridiculous that you have to idolise other nations footballers because you have never produced anyone good enough for yourselves. Its typical of the Scots that you'd rather see England lose than see Scotland win.I can certainly appreciate how good Maradona was but I put this question to you... Had Scotland ever been good enough to play in the last stages (after the groups) of a World Cup and then been cheated out of the game by Maradona, would you still feel the same way about him??I very much doubt it...The English don't need to get over this, nor does Terry Butcher because it happended and it still hurts regardless of whether English players in the modern game cheat or not.However I think Maradona will have had his fair share of "punishment" over his life time - and as a believer in God, I'm sure he'll eventually be forgiven by Him, but not by me.You however, need to get over your hatred of England as you have no justification other than jealousy. Mon 24 Nov 2008 15:40:07 GMT+1 Armchair Dave http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=95#comment103 Oh dear. It exactly mirrors 1966. Putting specific words in capitals won't change that fact. If there's any doubt as to whether a foul or a ball has cross the line or someone handles the ball, the referee must not blow the whistle. By default, no action must be taken. Action must only be taken if the referee believes that an offense has been committed.Of course Maradonas handball was blatant and we all saw it, but somehow the referee missed it, or was in some sort of doubt as to whether it was a handball. In 1966 the referee made a similar mistake by giving a goal which (as video evidence has proved beyond any doubt) was not over the goal line. So the two incidents can be put down as referee mistakes.After the game some England player said the ball was over the line, similar to Maradona lying about how he hadn't handled the ball (which he clearly did).And as to the argument that Engalnd would have won anyway in 1966? Complete nonsense. You don't know what would have happened if that goal wasn't given. At 2-2 the Germans could have gone on to win it. Similarly, you can't tell whether England would have gone on to win has the handball been given. Believe it or not, actions have consequences, it's not as simply as chalking off one goal.I think all the chat above has proved one thing. Alot of England fans are just like Terry Butcher. They can't move on. They're still bitter about decisions gone against them. Lots of nations have been robbed in the World Cup. Most of them move on soon after and achieve new footballing heights. Mon 24 Nov 2008 11:52:15 GMT+1 Stukazoo http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=94#comment102 Great piece.Not sure that I am going to be carried away with expectations of winning the WC though. Been there before, too many times, and it's always been about not being able to get over the last hurdle. If we can get to the final, we'll win it. Never had any doubt about that, but getting there is the hard part.In answer to all those who think 66's third wasn't in... who gives a damn, we got the fourth. And to all those who think it was all over by then, Germany had already scored in the last minute of normal time. Maradona's HoG goal was a crucial error by the officials, but that's football. How many penalties are 'bought' every week around the globe in games of all lrevels of importance? England should have won that game anyway with the chances that they decided to create in the second half. They gave them far too much respect in the first half (which has never been repeated) and were undoubtedly favourites to go through at the time.Here's to more heartbreak in 2010 (if I say that, we may have a chance)! Mon 24 Nov 2008 11:48:26 GMT+1 RBs_Dainty_Flapjack http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=93#comment101 Why do people compare Maradona's handball to THAT goal in '66??In '66 no-one really knew for sure at the time whether the ball had or hadn't crossed the line, so of course the Germans argued it hadn't and the English argued it had!In 1986 there was NO DOUBT that the little man CHEATED! He knew he handled it, everyone in the stadium knew he handled it (Except the guy who mattered - the ref).What rankles is that, to my knowledge he has never admitted it. He has never said - 10 or 20 years later - "Sorry boys, I was a bit crafty there and leathered it in with my hand. I know it was naughty and I apologise". He came up with romantised 'Hand of god' stuff that the Argentinians lapped up. Rather than just coming out and saying "Yep, I cheated and got away with it.Maybe that's why Terry is still miffed! Mon 24 Nov 2008 10:26:35 GMT+1 ianwarncken http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=92#comment100 Should have read other's comments first hey - I see an ex-Boro nobody Mon 24 Nov 2008 00:13:35 GMT+1 ianwarncken http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=91#comment99 Who is Bosko Jankovic? Mon 24 Nov 2008 00:12:22 GMT+1 thesecretalchemist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=90#comment98 DavidUnesco at 97 said: " Maradona was NOT a genius, he was a footballer. Einstein, Newton etc. can be called geniuses. "Newton looked at the universe, sensed its true form, and presented it to us in way that forever changed how we look at it.Maradona did the same with football.Genius. Mon 24 Nov 2008 00:09:36 GMT+1 dodiesmith http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=89#comment97 Fabio Capello has brought discipline to England - he has also brought hope.Talking of hope, Obama is now the President Elect....so all I can say to the miserable shower who keep sending in negative comments about the England hopes for the next World Cup..... go away, BREATHE......and then start to believe.Robbo is always optimistic and his articles are not up for Pulitzer prizes..... he just writes from the heart and I and his many fans are happy with that.I have been awed by watching Maradona play and I'm glad he came through his personal demons - we are Brits, we can smile at scoundrels and then we carry on. I saw Butcher's interview with the press and he was articulate and bright. He told the truth.... to be that close and see that goal must have broken his heart.We ALL have to move on.... and BELIEVE that Capello will help bring England back to the beautiful game, earn the respect of the world....and that includes Argentina. Thanks, Robbo. Sun 23 Nov 2008 17:39:08 GMT+1 DavidUnesco http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=88#comment96 Let's get something straight. Maradona was NOT a genius, he was a footballer. Einstein, Newton etc. can be called geniuses. There is nothing special about what footballers do although sometimes it can be pleasing on the eye.The reason some England fans and players hate him is not so much the FACT that he cheated, because all footballers have broken the rules at some point. The way he conducted himself after the event was what really hurt, calling it "the hand of God" doesn't exactly sit well with English humility values. Sun 23 Nov 2008 16:37:52 GMT+1 Iron Bottom http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=87#comment95 can we please clear something up? the quarter final in 1986 was NOT the biggest game of butcher's career. i am sure he played in the semi final v west germany 4 years later. if england had won the pen shoot out they would've faced maradona's argentina in the final & maybe butcher would not still have carried a grievance to this day. Sun 23 Nov 2008 13:51:01 GMT+1 el-nickpcr-io http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=87#comment94 What do they say about geniuses?Judge them by their deeds not their life. As a person Maradona is an absolute loser ( a bit like Gazza) but as a footballer he is untouchable. When people (only English people of course) try to sum him up with a single handball they miss the point entirely. Sun 23 Nov 2008 11:32:31 GMT+1 yarmred http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=86#comment93 It was Bosco Jankovic with a c Robbo as opposed to his current namesake Bosko. It was always Heine Otto for me mind. Sun 23 Nov 2008 09:00:42 GMT+1 bigbadbobbolton http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=85#comment92 If I remember rightly Maradonna was sent home from the World Cup in 1994 for taking Ephedrine? Not cocaine. Ephedrine is a powerful stimulant that increases the heart rate to dangerous levels, which is why Maradonna has had so many heart problems!Why bring up the 66 goal in defense of a cheat? England beat West Germany 4 -2 not 3 -2 so the goal that Geoff Hurst "scored" made zero difference to the result, plus he didn't cheat by using his hand. Maradonna was so talented he didn't need to cheat to win a football match. That's what makes it so bad.For those of you like sos-grande-diego, (who calls himself an Englishman?????) who scandalously maligns Terry Butcher as a crap player think on this...have you ever played in a Football World Cup? No? That must mean you are as crap at football as you are at showing loyalty to your country and your national team. Sun 23 Nov 2008 07:27:33 GMT+1 thesecretalchemist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=84#comment91 This is my first look at Robbo's blog. And my last.This is a story created and perpetuated by the media and a plethora of misinformed mugs. Check 17 theoddgoal - spot on, mate. As a Celtic fan, I never thought I'd find myself defending Terry "Celtic, you hate them so much" Butcher. But if you watch the interview, Butcher keeps trying to do his job and talk about the Scotland team, but the hacks won't let him. At 70 bmoffat9 blames the southern-based hacks, but Scottish voices seem to be as much to blame as English ones. Robbo's mates stitch Butcher up at the interview and Robbo gets a cheap and easy blog/few giggles out of it. I was 14 when I went to Hampden and saw Maradona, still around my age at the time, score a sublime goal in the friendly against Scotland. It is a tragedy there were no cameras that day, the goal was equal to or better than his famous second against England in'86. At Hampden the stadium was unanimous in their appreciation of that incipient genius. The media likes to spin that Scotland supporters love Maradona for the Hand of God, but the truth is the affair started with that goal at Hampden.Great to welcome a living genius to Hampden again. Happy to have Butcher committed to the Scotland cause. But journalists, take your feces-fermenting agendas and tired cliches elsewhere. UK football supporters are fed up with your condescension. Sun 23 Nov 2008 00:33:05 GMT+1 kevfullo http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=83#comment90 the cheating little genius was..er..just that! remember how he would be hacked to death for 90 minutes and never utter a complaint? those were the days of severe tackles, imagine him playing with the rules nowadays? he would be frightening. Sat 22 Nov 2008 21:42:44 GMT+1 BestSpam1979 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=82#comment89 I mean appropriate NAME (i.e. Butcher) for a photo like that! Sat 22 Nov 2008 21:21:39 GMT+1 BestSpam1979 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=81#comment88 Wow, that's the first time I've ever seen that picture of Butcher stained in red...appropriate for the photo, I think! Proper battler...good on you son. You wouldn't get away with playing in a bloodstained shirt nowadays mind, or playing on at all. Maybe football's the poorer for that, who knows...? Sat 22 Nov 2008 21:20:57 GMT+1 ell_raiser http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=80#comment87 How did you get a job in journalism? Not only are your arguments nonsense, they're extremely poorly written! Sat 22 Nov 2008 20:02:13 GMT+1 Tess Sgs http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=79#comment86 #44 - "The thing that amuses me about the England v Germany goal argument put forward by anyone wanting to ahve a go at Englands record, is their inability to count. Lets say, just for the sake of arguement we rule out both goals. Lets not argue over it, just take each others word and rule both out. That makes the England Argentina game a 1-1 draw and of course it means England wouldn't have beaten Germany... Oh no, wait, what's this? England would have won 3-2? I suggest you use a less leaky arguement over the goal that may or may not have been. (Possibly try starting with one that actually would affect the result if discounted.) "It would have affected the results in both games. Nothing would have been different UP UNTIL THE GOALS WERE DISALLOWED, but from that point on, both matches would have been changed. So to say Argentine and England would have drawn 1-1 or England would still have won in 66 is nothing but speculation. Sat 22 Nov 2008 12:33:10 GMT+1 Danny Edon http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=78#comment85 Sir T. FireballBosko Jankovic is a sign of Robbo showing his age.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo%C5%BEo_Jankovi%C4%87He was a Boro striker in the early 80's.He was no Juninho like but he was pretty good - at least that's what me Grandad tells me ; ) Sat 22 Nov 2008 12:07:31 GMT+1 Tess Sgs http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=77#comment84 "justice has come full circle " - what about Owen's penalty a few years later? To carry on the bitterness after 22 years and a few incidents of retribution is a joke! Grow up, Butcher! Sat 22 Nov 2008 12:04:25 GMT+1 machinemessiah http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=76#comment83 Brilliant as Maradona's second goal was, I don't think England would have opened up to let him score it if he'd not just punched the first one in.As one (Italian) journalist said at the time, England were like a man who'd just been mugged and had his wallet stolen, still in a daze and vulnerable.Having said that you can't deny the man's greatness and I guess it would have been a crime if he didn't win a World Cup Sat 22 Nov 2008 11:39:46 GMT+1 sos_grande_diego http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=75#comment82 Some people talk about the hand of god as if people outside of England actually cared about the incident. What about the England team claiming the ball went over the line in 66? That is no more honest than what Diego did.Noone asks how Shilton with his commanding height did not deal with that awful backpass. Do you know what Diego said when the Scottish press asked him if he had shaken Terry Butcher's hand after the game? "Who is Butcher?" was his reply. Because who is he? Does anyone really care? (Apart from being a sectarian bigot) He was a crap player and a crap manager, just with the typical self-pity attitude of any England fan. "Oh, poor us, we were robbed again", oh please, give me a break. Doesn't he realise either that most Scots actually don't mind the guy?And yes he may have been a drug-addict but cocaine doesn't actually enhance performance . If anything it is more likely to damage performance so all this talk about "drug-fuelled performances" is complete and utter crap.Scapegoating is what England fans are good at when theit team have been torn apart and shown for what they really are... nothing, of no consequence, of absolutely no value to the wider footballing world. Given the way England fans behave abroad (Ireland 1995, France 1998, Belgium/Holland 2000, etc... alcohol is a drug no matter what anyone says, it's only legality that differentiates it) I have no respect for what they have to say about "fairplay"Good on you Diego. Who IS Butcher? I've forgotten now.From an Englishman. Sat 22 Nov 2008 09:26:13 GMT+1 yiannis21 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=75#comment81 TheDeluded (Post 15),Ironically, 66 posts have come and gone since you made your points, yet no one has addressed one fundamental error (well, one guy did, but a little to subtly to be picked up), so here goes:When, exactly, did the old Columbian Marching Powder become a PERFORMANCE ENHANCING drug?!!Not that I want to get into confession or anything here, but the only thing cocaine enhances is your rate of talking and possibly your outlook on life! Trust me, you are certainly not EMPOWERED!!Steroids are a performance enhancing drug. Cocaine melts your brain from the inside. Also, bearing in mind that the grand cocaine "high" lasts about 15 minutes, even if he took some in the TUNNEL he would still end up playing most of the match ON A COMEDOWN!!Surely this puts him above a dozen Pele's as greatest of all time! Imagine how good he would have been if he HADN'T been taking mind-destroying narcotics!! Sat 22 Nov 2008 08:02:56 GMT+1 RamoneSinister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=74#comment80 #62You're missing the point. If a defender hacks down a striker and the referee doesn't stop play he's not going to tell the referee that he commited a foul is he? Maradona handled the ball, I think we can all agree with that. Its then up to the referee to make a decision. I'd like to think he wasn't paying enough attention to spot what happened. Hindsight is 100%. At the time it happened how many of us did a double take? How many of us can say 100% when it happened we were 100% sure that he'd handled it.Its not like the Germans let the third goal in 66 hold them back. Look what they've done since. We should learn from them. Sat 22 Nov 2008 03:18:21 GMT+1 bigbadbobbolton http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=73#comment79 I met Terry Butcher at Perth airport a few years ago. I found him to be a down to earth guy with none of the airs and graces you might have expected from someone accorded "celebrity status". Terry Butcher has always been held in high regard from his peers especially during his playing days, for his honest hard work and professionalism displayed at both club and country levels. Players like Terry and Tony Adams played the game with a whole heart because it really mattered to them. Picking and choosing when to play in an England shirt was never an option for them. Terry Butcher played for his country with pride whenever or for whatever the reason something that players like Steven Gerrard should note!So you can imagine now what it must mean to a man like Terry Butcher, to be playing the game for your country, at the highest level the World Cup? Not only that but to be in with a genuine chance of perhaps a place in the final? To have that moment taken away by a goal that should never have been? Hard to take maybe but to make matters worse having this done by the most genuinely talented player of his and many other generations, a player who didn't need to cheat to win a match.... EVER? Well I must admit I am with Terry on this one, I would never forgive Marradonna too! In one moment he broke a nations heart and showed himself to be unworthy of the talent that God had entrusted to him. For most of us old enough to remember it is not the goal of genius that Marradonna scored that we remember most it is the punch that scored the goal that should never have been that rankles...and always will! Sat 22 Nov 2008 02:48:36 GMT+1 gc http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=72#comment78 To me there is something great about Butcher's reaction. There was no spin, no attempt to be politically correct. Just a football fan who was wronged not forgetting. A refreshing contrast to Carragher's comments about not being that bothered about England. It's nice to know that an incident that entered the national psyche along with Gazza's tears, Beckhams red, Waddle, Southgate, and Pearce missed penalties is cared about by the players much as the fans. Fans won't forget, and aren't willing to brush it under the carpet just because Maradona was brilliant in so many other ways.That he was representing Scotland is a fair point but, at least the Scots know they are getting a guy that really really cares, and won't stop caring just because 'that's what he's supposed to do'.Finally having spoken to Argentinians, some have said that he is actually revered for the first goal more than the second. Fri 21 Nov 2008 23:33:45 GMT+1 aries22 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=71#comment77 Whether or not Hurst's second goal was over the line, the Germans never threatened again and his hat-trick goal certainly was over the line and settled the issue beyond all doubt. Fri 21 Nov 2008 20:39:23 GMT+1 mtmfella http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=70#comment76 What, Robbo? No comments on "the gelled tumbler" this week? For shame. Anyhoo, my two-pennorth on the Maradonna goal is this - yes, he cheated; yes, he got away with it; but has he EVER come out and held his hands up (pun very much intended) and admitted it? No, he bloody well hasn't, and that's what would stick in my craw if I was Terry Butcher. Maradonna - passable footballer, yep. Decent human being - nah. Fri 21 Nov 2008 19:58:59 GMT+1 cov1985 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=69#comment75 GladVoroninIsGone"Robbie Fowler was an example to many out there when he told the referee that he hadn't been fouled by Seaman when Liverpool played Arsenal all those years ago. Ok, the referee ignored him, but then he tried his best."Whilst I agree that is very admirable, pretending to snort the white lines on the pitch probably doesn't make Fowler a brilliant role model. Fri 21 Nov 2008 17:10:04 GMT+1 ronaldo_rocket http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=68#comment74 Cracking blog Robbo, keep up the good work. Foster for England!!! Fri 21 Nov 2008 17:01:49 GMT+1 Whiteoutloud http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=67#comment73 I for one am a bit bored with all this talk of past glories & past misdemeanours! It has happened and talking about what might have been is pure conjecture. Get over it!I thought the England kids were brilliant and deserve all the praise for a great performance. Germany looked poor because they were not given the time on the ball to pass it around at their usual leisurely pace.Well done to all Fri 21 Nov 2008 17:01:10 GMT+1 bmoffat9 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=66#comment72 re: GladVoroninsGoneIt's not that we hate the English.I actually quite like a lot of English players, especially Rooney and Gerrard.It's the fact that we have to listen to it non-stop during the big tournaments.You turn on the TV to watch highlights of today's WC games.The show is on for an hour.You get 20 minutes of highlights, 10 mins discussing the games, then a 30 mins update on the England camp!You watch a live match involving any 2 teams with Tyldesley commentating and you would think that England are playing from the constant drivel you have to listen to about them.Even when they do get knocked out, it's all "Oh, this could/should have been England playing" or "England would have beaten this lot".I would probably cheer England on if I didnt have to put up with all of that. Fri 21 Nov 2008 16:33:48 GMT+1 Owen http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=65#comment71 If you consider the fame that the World Cup winners of 66 got, then you can't blame Butcher for holding a grudge about being cheated out of the same. Instead of retiring from the game with a guaranteed income from his successes he had to resort to going north of the border. No-one should wish that upon anyone else!Ok, I'm only joking about that last bit, but it is funny how the scots hate us so much, sometime they need winding up!Secondly, there is no doubt that Maradona was a great footballer, but his image is and will always be tarnished by the fact he cheated. There are arguments that all footballers do it these days, but could that not be as a result of the role-models that came before them.Robbie Fowler was an example to many out there when he told the referee that he hadn't been fouled by Seaman when Liverpool played Arsenal all those years ago. Ok, the referee ignored him, but then he tried his best.As much as I dislike a certain little Portuguese child who likes to throw his toys out of the pram, I would be blind not to recognise his ability. He is, however, another who's everlasting image will be tarnished by his wish to constantly cheat, by diving and encouraging the referee to give cards to the opposition. There is no need for any of it and it should not be tolerated however gifted the individual is.If you are that good you should not have to cheat and should own-up if you have unfairly gained an advantage. Fri 21 Nov 2008 16:02:58 GMT+1 Armchair Dave http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=64#comment70 @bmoffat9Well said - the voice of reason has spoken.The only thing you forgot was the Seaman/Ronaldinho scapegoat when the ball sailed over David Seamans head.Oh it was all his fault wasn't it? No you were beaten by a better team (again!)Plus Danny Mills got Ronaldinho sent off for nothing (cheating). That glass house you lot live in has a few broken windows.=) Fri 21 Nov 2008 15:53:59 GMT+1 bmoffat9 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=63#comment69 As a Scotland fan, I was fed up hearing about how Butcher wouldn't shake Maradona's hand.Who cares Terry? Certainly not the thousands of Scotland fans who pay your wages now.As James McFadden allegedly told Butcher on Monday when he was moaning to the players about him - "Well, we actually like Maradona up here."Maradona gained legend status in the Tartan Army for both of his goals that day.Rightly or wrongly, our only source of comfort once we get knocked out or fail to qualify is that we get to watch the soap opera that is the England Football Team.It usually goes something like this...- Get a couple of good results- Media build the team up- Players start believing the hype- Get knocked out by a better quality football side- Media look for scapegoatsUsually the scapegoats consist of one English player and one opposition player.Rooney / RonaldoBeckham / SimoneIn reality, the media should be looking at themselves.England are not a top quality International side, and never have been.Sure they have some decent players but they are nowhere near the natural skill levels of Brazil, Argentina, Italy etc..Their standing in International football is that they are a top 10 side, no more.Expectations for every tournament should be quarter finals.They only reason they ever won the World Cup was that they played every game at Wembley.If Scotland had hosted the WC in 66 and played every game at Hampden, we would have had a fair chance ourselves (as was proved when we humped England at Wembley in 67).Now please, get over yourselves and keep your circus away from the Scotland team in future. Fri 21 Nov 2008 15:45:33 GMT+1 flicksdontwork http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=62#comment68 I've played whilst on "performance enhancing drugs" a few times.Absolute garbage-couldn't get near enough to the ball to get me hand on it.Wouldn't reccomend it. Fri 21 Nov 2008 15:09:40 GMT+1 Sir T. Fireball http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=62#comment67 Can somebody please explain the significance of Robbo touting Bosko Jankovic as one of the top two players ever? Is it just a case of Robbo plucking a random name out of the air, or is there more to it than that? Fri 21 Nov 2008 14:32:11 GMT+1 cpeskett http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=61#comment66 Seems to me that goal #4 in 1966 was over the line by a bit, though :o). The final score was 4-2, not 3-2. Fri 21 Nov 2008 14:18:56 GMT+1 Albicelestes1 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=60#comment65 Completely agree with towersofdub's comment (no.5). Too many English people hate Maradona because of that one incident and we try to justify that hatred by bringing the Falklands war and Maradona's later struggle with drugs and alcohol into it. I am English and a staunch supporter of our national team but I have also spent time in Argentina and they are amongst the nicest people that I have ever met and not at all hung up on that war - unlike us ! They too are obsessed with football and in particular, their national team, but they have had a much more turbulent history (post-war) than us and their World Cup wins meant more to them than they ever could have to the English. Maradona deserves to be remembered for his successes on the football field and not for his failings off it. Fri 21 Nov 2008 14:15:33 GMT+1 Samwell2804 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=59#comment64 Dont Worry Robbo, i always make sure i borrow one of Jean' (in my office) tena lady ultra's in preparation for when im reading your blog, as it normal has me in stiches, so its just precaution incase i do have a lil bit of wee pop out from copious amounts of laughter?! but cheers for the advaice anyway Fri 21 Nov 2008 14:12:33 GMT+1 unclefredo http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=58#comment63 To the people saying that the 66 goal was over the line. It wasn't a goal and should not have been given. Even if it has crossed the line (which I think we can definetely say is inconclusive), the referee has to be 100% sure about it. We have watched it millions of times, and the decision is very larglely spilt.I'm am a Scotsman, and have no grudge to bear with England other than the constant rubbing it in our faces over the past years. That's part and parcel. I think Maradona was a cheat, but no more so than say Gerrard, Ronaldo, Owen, Drogba and their diving antics. Fact is that many, if not all to some extent, players try to gain an advantage by cheating. However, to say he was not the best player to have ever graced a football pitch is nonsense. I found it particularly amusing that Butcher, despite knowing this fine well, said Pele was the best. It just showed what a bitter, sad, little man he is. Fair enough, he may hold a grudge for the goal, but after 22 years? He acts like Maradona had slept with his wife, or killed a family member.Don't get me started on Butcher. He has come out of this all with no dignity, and quite frankly, I think belittled the Scotland team with his inane prattle. English football has always been about finding a figurehead of blame for their exits from tournaments, and it seems Butcher is still hung up on it.I just hope Butcher, being of such amazing morality in football is as quick to chastise some of England's own.On another note, I am really impressed with Capello. I'm sure you'll qualify for the WC2010, but I reckon his biggest battle is to come - dealing with the media merry-go-round a few months before. Fri 21 Nov 2008 13:58:01 GMT+1 leetaylor7 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=57#comment62 Havent played any decent teams??Has everyone forgotten about the 4-1 win in Croatia? Not many teams will go there and get a result like that...And as for the Germany result, everyone goes on about weakened teams blah blah blah. The managers field a starting 11 that he thinks is capable of beating the other team and you can only beat whats in front of you. Although Capello's hand was forced by withdrawals, I was pleased he used it as an oppurtunity to play squad players. Im sure he will have learnt a lot and will now have a bit of a dilemna when the next game comes around.Also it was the first time they Germany have lost in Berlin since losing to Brazil in 1973. Any win against Germany is a good reslut! Fri 21 Nov 2008 13:28:17 GMT+1 Armchair Dave http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=56#comment61 Some of the comments here are hilarious. Like blaming the referee for Maradona cheating. Maradona handled the ball, not the ref.As for Terry moving on? I think so. It was a long time ago and lots of people cheat, including England players (shock, horror!!!)Err anyone remember that ridiculous Stevie G dive in the Champions League the other week? Or Englands (Brave, Lion-like, Crusading) John Terry handling the ball against Roma?Don't let the hand of God define who Maradona is. Unfortunately the English media hate him. All last week on the news, they shows that infamous goal.If they ever decide to make a balanced new story on him, they'll show the other goal in that game. One of the best goals ever.The guy was an immense player. On a totally different level to the spoiled brats we have today. Report that instead of his hand. Fri 21 Nov 2008 13:03:40 GMT+1 monethammersfan http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=55#comment60 31 - You mispelled 'genius'. Well done, you really proved a point there.Good blog Robbo, but there's something I'm a bit confused about.The England goalkeepers, David James has been inconsistent, Carson woeful, Hart is promising but i don't think this is his time yet.What, may i ask, is the problem with Rob Green? He never gets picked for the squad, he never even gets mentioned - why not? He was unlucky the one time he was picked, injured in a freak goal-kick.He's the sole reason West Ham aren't rock bottom, he deserves a chance more than anyone in my opinion Fri 21 Nov 2008 12:41:49 GMT+1 mightywarrywarry http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=54#comment59 that baboon comment had me in stitches. keep it up Robbo!!! Fri 21 Nov 2008 12:35:50 GMT+1 millar69rfc http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=53#comment58 Come on for goodness sake BBC? Who is this madman on your wage bill? Its obvious he has no clue what is goin on!!!! Although i know this comment will never be posted in a million years...sort it out!!! Although there is no doubt that Mara was genious....Taking a swipe at 3 of the most dedicated England diehards of my generation...football needs these characters. Men who play for the badge on their chest...and not their bank balance (not inc. Beckham). And by the way...i am from Scotland!!! 'Mon Team GB!!!!! Fri 21 Nov 2008 12:19:18 GMT+1 charlie-charles http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=52#comment57 has any one got change for a tenner ? Fri 21 Nov 2008 12:11:29 GMT+1 donprestoni http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=51#comment56 @48Please explain how your response relates in any way to my post? Or did you just spot a "long one" and decide to reply without reading? If so, I'll summarise for you:Who are we to judge someone else's personal feelings when we weren't involved in an incident?The "If your upset about the Hand of God goal then you can't have the '66 over the line or not goal so you loose the world cup" argument is utter rubbish and doesn't work.I know England players cheat too, those that can't admit that must go to the same optician as Wenger, they need to get off their high horse a bit.Yes, Butcher has held a grudge for a very long time and can be accused of sour grapes, but Maradona is way to smug for his own good and clearly doesn't even see the feelings of the other side caused by his cheating. Not saying he should even apologise, but a little tact and being a bit less smug about the whole affair wouldn't go amiss. Then again, he's in Scotland so playing to the anti English vote is probably easiest for him.Sorry Collie 21, that's as short and succinct as I can get it, now please either read my post and reply or run along, rather than just replying to what you think I probably said. Fri 21 Nov 2008 11:28:45 GMT+1 charlie-charles http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=50#comment55 At the end of the day shilton should have took the ball and marradonna out then there would be no question and we would have won 2 world cups by now.charlie charles Fri 21 Nov 2008 10:05:23 GMT+1 Robbo Robson http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=50#comment54 SamwellTa for the praise but the I could do without knowing whether your mirth required a change of briefs, mate. I've got two words of advice for you. Tena Lady. Fri 21 Nov 2008 09:59:19 GMT+1 cov1985 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=49#comment53 afj1981Nope, the deluded is right about the spin actually, if it was spinning goalwards(and therefore arching away from goal) it would have bounced in.I'm not saying that the ball was definately in though. Noone will really know for sure Fri 21 Nov 2008 09:58:39 GMT+1 Samwell2804 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=48#comment52 L M A O !!!Well done Robbo, you've brightened up my Friday, great fun i almost fell off my office chair in parts, i laffed so hard that a lil bit of wee popped out?! hahaSome great Anecdotes there, great stuff!"inhaling some Colombian produce into the nostrils of God" - quality"chugging in his wake like a steam engine after a TGV" - brilliant "realized the average IQ of the squad is slightly lower than that of a baboon colony " - absolute class"parks his zimmer and swings his right boot " - appropriateLoving it, Keep up the good work to keep me laughing in the office please Fri 21 Nov 2008 09:35:01 GMT+1 charlie-charles http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=47#comment51 marradonna was a true professional and never did anything wrong ever. hopefully that fits in with the guidelines.all the bestcharlie charles Fri 21 Nov 2008 09:31:25 GMT+1 charlie-charles http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=46#comment50 This post has been Removed Fri 21 Nov 2008 09:10:40 GMT+1 BCChris http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=45#comment49 #47Who can be happy with a semi? ;)Robbo my dear, another very good blog.Ive allways sort of sat on the fence regarding Maradona and the 'hand of god'. He was probably the best player to ever grace the game, and i allways think that with brilliance comes a bit of madness. Yeh he cheated and yeh it might have cost England a place in the world cup final but, it was before my time, so i cant hold a grudge. Yeh maybe Butcher should get over it, but then again who am i to judge him? I wasnt there, didnt feel what he felt.Anyway Robbo keep up the good work, allready looking forward to your next blog. Fri 21 Nov 2008 08:52:10 GMT+1 SugarDunkerton http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=44#comment48 Have to agree with the last post... Butcher was an animal and embraced the sectarian nonsense like no other player at Rangers. The only reason he is seen as a hero is because he was regularly pictured with bloodied wounds, shirts etc... Of course these are the traits that make you a football player eh...? The man couldn't kick his own a**e never mind a football and created thuggery whenever he was on a pitch.And to put his managerial skills into context he took over at Sydney Fc with the stipulation in his contract that they had to finish in the top 4 in his first season.. not too hard a job for one of the better teams in the Australian league who had finished 2nd the year before... Come end of the season he was sacked.. wonder why?? Fri 21 Nov 2008 08:44:23 GMT+1 collie21 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=43#comment47 Hey number 44, the first goal, came about from woeful back pass that Shilton was never going to Control and someone else would have put the ball in the back of the net. Maradona was kicked off the field anyway during the match and if he had missed the second goal he was fouled at least twice on the run in. You lost. Full stop. Fri 21 Nov 2008 08:35:43 GMT+1 collie21 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=42#comment46 truth is the argies won't forgive the english for las malvinas either, but this was only a game of football. Good on you Robbo your take on Butcher is perfect. But please don't , please spare us...you are not going to win the WC in 2010. Just be happy with a QF or Semi Fri 21 Nov 2008 08:24:20 GMT+1 barwick_green http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=41#comment45 "Terry Butcher is ahero .. and was agreat player who commands respect"Respect has to be earned and maintained; this same Terry Butcher who boasted that he threw his Simple Minds, The Pogues, Rod Stewart andBilly Connolly tapes out of his car window after signing for Rangers.The man is a petty minded bigot who lives in the past. Fri 21 Nov 2008 08:23:06 GMT+1 RamoneSinister http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=40#comment44 Meh!All those who b**** about Maradona's first must have never watched John Terry over the last 10 years. There have been at least two occassions at White Hart Lane when goal bound efforts have been stopped by one of his arms. And I know I'm not the only one who's seen this. #5 was right. As bad as it was that Maradona used his hand, it was down to the refere to disallow the goal. Just the same way that it was up to him to either give or disallow the third goal in 66. Fri 21 Nov 2008 03:05:18 GMT+1 donprestoni http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=39#comment43 First of all, if your not personally involved with the situation 9which lets face it none of us are, (we weren't on the pitch in '86,) your not really in a position to tell Butcher how he should feel at all. Had something like that happened to me, I think I would have born the grudge for a very long time, but who knows.The thing that amuses me about the England v Germany goal argument put forward by anyone wanting to ahve a go at Englands record, is their inability to count. Lets say, just for the sake of arguement we rule out both goals. Lets not argue over it, just take each others word and rule both out. That makes the England Argentina game a 1-1 draw and of course it means England wouldn't have beaten Germany... Oh no, wait, what's this? England would have won 3-2? I'm not goin to to say no one in an England shirt has ever cheated, i'd be a liar if I did. But, I do suggest that if people want to tell us "not to feel aggreved" over the hand of god then I suggest you use a less leaky arguement over the goal that may or may not have been. (Possibly try starting with one that actually would affect the result if discounted.) Besides, where do you guys get off saying who can and cant feel hurt about something and take it in anyway they like? Its not as if he did something illegal in revenge, he just refused to forgive the guy. So what?I also think that if anyone can accuse Butcher of sour grapes, then Maradona can also be accused of being a smug little so and so with the "who's Butcher line". If he can't remember who was on the other side the day he scored THAT goal, or the names of international players playing at the same time as him, that he played against in a world cup, then the drugs must have had more of an effect on him than he realises. Fri 21 Nov 2008 02:32:26 GMT+1 a fat bloke down the pub said so http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=38#comment42 What a refreshing change, good blog Robbo, just some facts and opinions. You summed Butcher up well."Fenwick's missed hack (he was on a yellow)". I didn't know that, you put it in just to inform the reader rather than make yourself appear knowledgeable or to support some pseudo-analysis. Thanks for the read. Fri 21 Nov 2008 00:12:57 GMT+1 Wot Kuyt 'e did http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=37#comment41 Quelle Finale!Enjoyed that. Thu 20 Nov 2008 23:53:43 GMT+1 laskeyst http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=37#comment40 A football fan who has spent any amount of time watching England could only have been impressed by the performance against Germany, and for one simple reason: the squad delivered rather than the team. To bring in several players who have hardly played recently and see these execute the tactical plan just as well as those who been on the field regularly is heartening to say the least. Our shape is getting better by the game, our ability to restrict the space open to the opposition by making that shape permanently mobile is becoming noticeable. That these attributes are now looking fundamental and not dependent on the presence of particular individuals can only excite England fans. Capello looks increasingly like the very man we needed. Thu 20 Nov 2008 23:47:09 GMT+1 Daniel http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=36#comment39 Partick? He was Motherwell manager for a few years and we were generally happy with him until he decided to go "big time" by going to Sydney FC!He did get us to a cup final and morale in the team was always high. Thu 20 Nov 2008 23:44:01 GMT+1 Thanks A lot BBC7 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=35#comment38 Fabio still has the big test to come: Penalty shootout at the worldcup 2010. England to miss none of the pens?? Thu 20 Nov 2008 23:26:57 GMT+1 arab87 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=34#comment37 This post has been Removed Thu 20 Nov 2008 22:29:45 GMT+1 lobotics http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=33#comment36 8. - If England play in Cape Town in the World Cup (ie. June or July) they'll be sure to get rain, icy winds and temperatures below 10 or 15 celsius.Should feel right at home... Thu 20 Nov 2008 21:14:57 GMT+1 giggsy11-90 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=32#comment35 grat blog as always Robbo. always a laugh and entertaining. well done robbo :):) Thu 20 Nov 2008 20:46:04 GMT+1 roy-keane-ate-my-cat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=31#comment34 Good to see most people on here are right thinking souls that agree that Butcher has been nothing but a clown this week. Although much of the blame has to go to the English media, watching the clips on the site here, all these childish antagonistic questions posed to Maradona came from English journalists. Looks like Terry isn´t the only one stuck in the past. Thu 20 Nov 2008 20:26:26 GMT+1 LondonsFinestClub http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=30#comment33 Maradonnas' second goal was one of the greatest I've ever seen. Terry had a right to be angry but not at Maradonna, it was surely the officials who were to blame for not picking it up. Players try to break the rules constantly, recently we have seen examples of Ronaldo and Gerrard diving to get a goal via the penalty spot. I often think sourgrapes are necessary to vent your anger and frustration but Jesus Terry! let it go brother and as the man said move on. Thu 20 Nov 2008 19:44:51 GMT+1 IXRobXI http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=29#comment32 Also he wasn ttoo genius to take drugs and waste away over the last 10+ years or so. but he did have a lot of skill and was like i said the second greatest player of all time. Thu 20 Nov 2008 19:41:11 GMT+1 IXRobXI http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=28#comment31 i do smell the roses they smell nice, also i admit i cant spell see im trying to write an essay which has to be in tomorrow and im too busy to check it. im writing on this when i loose concentration.anyway yea englan probarly may not win but we have hte quality to win and the manager and captain to. also like i believe the england players are all 'hungry' to win stuff and they all want to start and with such confidence cant a team win. also enlgand are getting a few players coming through at arsenal, man utd, chelsea and some other teams as well. also none of our great players are too-old to play in the 2010 world cup so the future looks good for enlgand the only problem is who will manage us after capello.also add mexico they have some good players coming through most notable carlos vela of arsenal he will be a very good player.i think croatia are doing well thing is what will they be like over the next few years.neverlands should have a pretty good team in 2010 as well. but spain should be the team to beat in 2010. england, brazil and argentina will be the other favourites. problem with portugal is that i cant help but look past the very good players they have i just dont think they have the depth. Thu 20 Nov 2008 19:37:52 GMT+1 AB1987 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=27#comment30 POST 29 IXROBXIIt is an insult to the genuis which Maradona is for you to spell his name incorrectly.You cannot even spell your 'precious' English manager's name correctly.England will not win the 2010 World Cup and will only be favourites because the British media will big them up. What will the scapegoat be this time??? i.e. Beckham in 98, the penalty spot at the Euros, the HAND OF GOD etc. etc.All of the English fans need to wake up and smell the coffee....Argentina, Brazil, Spain, France, Italy, Portugal are better teams...... Thu 20 Nov 2008 19:26:59 GMT+1 IXRobXI http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=26#comment29 also i do think marradona was the second greastest football player ever to play the game, the first being pele but england are under new management and the players have a right to feel upset about it. another thing the second goal was one of the greatest goals i have seen as well.and after all 'play to the whistle' Thu 20 Nov 2008 19:22:26 GMT+1 IXRobXI http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=25#comment28 ajf1981 im questioning what you know about football all you have said is england are cheats marradona rules.well for a fact marradona was caught using coaciane and a substance that allows people to concentrate more without getting distracted. this means that marradona was using a sports enhancing drug as it allowed him to concentrate which is cheating. the hand of god although i admit it was a foul it wasnt cancled although it should have been. its like when a player gets injured and is on the ground and the other team keep on playing and go on to score it is unfair. the ef should have made the decision and i believe he was over it. but how would you feel when playing for oyur country was a great honour and one of a players greastest achievements was playing for them in the world cup and england lost because of a foul made by marradona which should have been a freekick. the players have a right to feel upset about it. also another thing if you havnt noticed we have a good manager and unlike your precious scotland we have won it before and will be one of the favourites going into 2010 becuase capallo will be manager and he has brought a few thing that the england team need to win. he has made the players confident they arnt afriad of any one any more and most importantly when we concede now we carry on fighting which we did last night and won 2-1. as for it being a friendly any england V germany match regardless of the competition is a match between to rivarals its like the manchester united v liverpool or celtic v rangers or barcalona v madrid it is one of the biggest matches in international football regardless of what competition it is. Also the germans had not been beaten in berlin since 1973 or summit like that last time it was brazil any way guess who just beet them in berlin thats right england. Thu 20 Nov 2008 19:19:07 GMT+1 Bendtner's finishing touch http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=25#comment27 haha... Maradona doesn't even know who Butcher is. Why would he care for his forgiveness? Thu 20 Nov 2008 19:17:27 GMT+1 ianbowes http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=24#comment26 furthermore Terry Butcher is ahero .. and was agreat player who commands respect unlike maradona . I would and do feel exactly how Terry feels . I say well done . When maradona apologises Iwill forgive him and I am Terry would to Thu 20 Nov 2008 18:58:43 GMT+1 ianbowes http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=23#comment25 Maradona was one of the greatest players I have ever seen . But he is a disgrace to the game and his country . He is a cheat in every sense of the word . He took drugs whilst representing his country at the world cup . The whole team were fortunate not to be thrown out . Hey maybe we should make dwaine chambers cheif coach for the athletics team . !!!!!! I cant believe any player with this mans record would ever be made manager of the national side anywhere else .I Thu 20 Nov 2008 18:52:38 GMT+1 kasbah http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=22#comment24 "England seem to play well when they're playing in your typical English weather"#8 - I assume by typical english weather you don't mean pouring rain? because i remember a certain game at wembley against croatia last year when there may have been a few drops of rain..... Thu 20 Nov 2008 18:52:31 GMT+1 Robbo Robson http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=21#comment23 All this 'actually it did cross the line if you look at it from the point of view of a quantum physicist with a chronic squint' stuff is very tiresome. The ref gave it, it was a goal. Same goes for Diego's sleight of hand. Truth is, though, that Hurst wasn't cheating by shooting against the crossbar and Maradona very much was. That's just a fact. Another fact is the man was an utterly brilliant footie-player and I don't think the coke addiction, whenever it started, enhanced his performance in any aspect of his life. Thu 20 Nov 2008 18:52:10 GMT+1 AB1987 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=20#comment22 THE DELUDED POST 15Clutching at straws my friend.You cannot justify what did not happen.Again - complete nonsense Thu 20 Nov 2008 18:42:27 GMT+1 Stev http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=19#comment21 Bottom line Maradonna cheated Butcher out of the chance of a lifetime. so while he should probably conduct himself with more maturity, I for one dont begrudge him his attitude towards Maraplonker one little bit.Im a scotsman btw ;) Thu 20 Nov 2008 18:32:02 GMT+1 Mackems2-1@StJames Park http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=18#comment20 'Maradona' - Geordie's mates kebab. Priceless!You're right about Butcher, did he never cheat on the pitch? Never foul anybody who had a goalscoring chance? Time to move on. Thu 20 Nov 2008 18:29:02 GMT+1 ajf1981 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=17#comment19 The Deluded - If you think the ball swerved between the crossbar and the ground, the spin needed for it to spin out would have meant it was swerving toward the goal in mid air, so no chance of it having crossed the line I'm afraid.I don't think it would have swerved anyway, but if you think about it, even according to your logic the closest the ball would have been to crossing the line would have been when was on the ground, and it's clear to see it's not over the line.Funny how some people have to insist it was over. Just accept it was a mistake that we profited from - just like the Maradona handball Thu 20 Nov 2008 18:17:17 GMT+1 Saltwaters http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=16#comment18 The 66 goal certainly wasn´t over the line but just as in 86 the BETTER team won. Thu 20 Nov 2008 18:02:08 GMT+1 Mike http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=15#comment17 AB1987, you do realise don't you that Robbo is writing in a Middlesbrough accent on purpose, hence the use of 'cos and so on? Otherwise you've been reading his blog all along missing the main joke.And I also don't like the babbooon IQ gag...if anything England players have the IQ of a box of paper clips. Thu 20 Nov 2008 17:58:47 GMT+1 theoddgoal http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=14#comment16 Anybody who has actually seen the interview with Terry Butcher would know that it was the media who kept coming back to the question of Maradona and 'The Hand of God'. Butcher stated a number of times that although he would probably never forgive he had certainly moved on and assigned the incident to the past. Butcher wanted to talk about the upcoming Scotland vs Argentina match. The media kept asking his opinion about a game that took place 22 years ago. He also stated that, in his opinion, Maradona was only second to Pele as the greatest footballer ever. The fact that Maradona cheated to score Argentina's first goal in that game over 20 years ago does not diminish his greatness. The fact that he was a sublime talent does not change because of this one sly act. Victims are not required to forgive the perpetrators. No one has a right to demand that perpetrators be forgiven by their victims.If the 'Hand of God' goal had not be given we do not know what might have happened in that game. Yes, Maradona's second goal was a classic but let's not forget that the game ended 2-1 and with England in the ascendency. As much as Maradona ruled the game for 70 minutes, Barnes almost turned the game on its head in the last 10. It was only a goal line clearing header from the Argentinian defender Brown that stopped the game going to extra time - or, if that first Maradona goal had been disallowed, an England win after 90 minutes. Thu 20 Nov 2008 17:54:29 GMT+1 Red_Sam_ThisYearHonest! http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=13#comment15 "The next friendly is against Spain... and I think we'll beat 'em"Are you kidding?England 1-2 Liverpool Thu 20 Nov 2008 17:46:37 GMT+1 TheDeluded http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=12#comment14 you know what? if you doubt that '66 goal, you should kick a football, or play some pool or snooker or tennis. or just use your eyes. a ball swerves when it spins and in that instance, it's spinning outward. if it was spinning the other way, it would have bounced in.but it doesn't, it bounces out. and the ball doesn't have to bounce over the line, it has to cross the line. and it does. watch it. it's over the line when it's in the air.and then there's an argument over the shadow of the ball on the line. but the ball was already coming back out by the time it touched the line. and it touched it so finely, that you can say with confidence ... if it swerved, it had been in, and we know it swerved because we see it week in, week out. that's what spinning footballs do. especially that one.I only know this because it's there for us all to see. but we only look at the line. there's no rule that says it needs to bounce at all. replay it on youtube.you'll see it. but don't look at the line.hahahaand Maradona didn't just take up cocaine when he was caught. same with Pryor when he shot his car. it didn't happen on his first hit ...(that's not defamation - it's common knowledge that he'd been on cocaine for some time, no?) Thu 20 Nov 2008 17:39:32 GMT+1 TheDeluded http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=12#comment13 This post has been Removed Thu 20 Nov 2008 17:19:32 GMT+1 rosey05 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=11#comment12 Robbo your best point of this blog without a shadow of a doubt is our poor goalkeeping situation. we will not win anything with a calamity keeper! look at spurs!!!! Thu 20 Nov 2008 17:02:24 GMT+1 AB1987 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=10#comment11 Post 10 "thedeluded"You are deluded - what nonsense you speak.-the 1966 goal never was, although you rarely hear about it. -No evidence to suggest Maradona was on performance enhancing drugs at that time. Maradona is a legend.... Thu 20 Nov 2008 17:00:48 GMT+1 AB1987 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=9#comment10 I found this blog to be terrible......for the following reasons-1. It is stated that the IQ of the England squad is lower than a colony of baboons. After reading the shocking use of the English language by this idiot i.e. repeating 'cos', is beyond me.2. Robbo tells Butcher to get over it as it has been 22 years, only to make reference to Maradona again in the last paragraph. The whole of England please get OVER IT! It is not as if you would have won the World Cup in Mexico.3. England will never win the World Cup - a team of individuals and big-time charlies.4. It disgusted me how Terry Butcher wanted to make all his TV interviews through the past week about him and England. As the 'God' states - "Who is Butcher?"5. A baboon would have greater success taking over from Robbo on this blog.6. I pray that Butcher is quickly on his way from the Scotland set up, along with all the English players we cap for some reason...e.g. Kris Commons Thu 20 Nov 2008 16:58:24 GMT+1 TheDeluded http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=8#comment9 oh I feel I have to do this, I know it's gonna rage on and on and on for ever, but there's 2 things I've got to get off my chest and out there to see what y'all make of it.1) the England / German '66 goal: the ball was spinning. it was spinning so much that it bounced in and then out. but it was also spinning so much that if you look carefully, you notice it actually SWERVE between the crossbar and the line. yes it does. even if there's a shadow of the ball on the white line, the ball was already swerving back out when it bounced. so that's it. you can stop your internal dialogue now.2) Maradonna was cheating before he touched the ball with his hand, or even kicked the ball: he was only playing like a 'super-human' because, as with other 'athletes' who also got caught when the authorities cottoned on ... he was on PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS. yes he was. and he got caught a couple of years later. and as Richard Pryor said, "I bin snortin coke for 15 years, and I ain't hooked. Maradona got caught a long way into his dependency. he's a grubby little cheat, who's cocaine-fuelled footballing antics prevented genuine players with (arguably) natural ability from progressing.2 little points that might set English hearts beating a little easier now? I'm not 'The Deluded' for nuthin! Thu 20 Nov 2008 16:55:51 GMT+1 hamedrehman http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/robborobson/2008/11/move_on_terry.html?page=7#comment8 Terry Butcher is a sour loser. Fair enough, Maradona cheated with the handball but for God's sake, no pun intended, it was 22 years ago. Get over the whole thing.Funny how he's also working for the SFA, while his home country convincingly beat Croatia and Germany and he hasn't commented once on it. Terry, if you're reading this, get over it, son. 22 years ago was a long time. Life goes on...Terry. Thu 20 Nov 2008 16:53:58 GMT+1