Comments for en-gb 30 Thu 18 Sep 2014 20:35:40 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at Castanha The students protest demonstration that resulted in rioting is deplorable. But the bit that incenses me is the constant reference, whenever anything goes wrong with the coalition, to the Liberal Democrats.The fact is no party won the last general election and no party has an absolute mandate to implement any of their election pledges. The Liberal democrats are doing the right thing most of the time and shouldn't be the victims of every decision that the coalition government makes.Labour fail to see, what they call"the global crisis" was under their watch. There is no excuse for profligacy under any party's watch and the main victim is the tax payer. Its about time that a resposible government sorted out the mess we're in currently.Finally I do hope we keep having coalition governments as it puts a check on no party having absolute power. Fri 12 Nov 2010 11:05:45 GMT+1 jr4412 Dr Llareggub #57."I have copied your posting and will take it to my neighbour who has just lost he son in Afghanistan."losing a child is the worst nightmare for a parent. however, in the interest of fairness, you might also take this post to one of your Afghani or Pakistani, or even Iraqi neighbours who might have lost their kin. how about it? "I am sure she will appreciate your humour."there is nothing funny about war and people dying. I do object to people commemorating 'their' dead whilst ignoring the 'others' and sweeping under the carpet the reasons why all those people died -- it is always about money. if you think standing once per year for two minutes silent and with your head bowed makes up for 'our' role in waging wars, well...hope you weren't charged too much though for the little plastic poppy you undoubtedly wore; don't you think that somebody is making an awful lot of money from them each year?(hint: not talking about the British Legion) Fri 12 Nov 2010 10:38:24 GMT+1 nautonier 'The Washington Post notes today how "many observers were surprised by the violence in central London because the British public had thus far been'.................Mr Easton Is it in any way possible for you to distinguish between the British public as a general group and the left wing criminal anarchists who attacked the Tory HQ building this week with such violence and depravity?Your own left wing sympathies are there for all to see in the coded way in which you write your 'misinformation' at the expense of the BBC licence payer Fri 12 Nov 2010 10:20:52 GMT+1 jon112dk Mark, I've spent the last 30 years doing work that I know saves lives. At least twice I’ve come close to losing my life on behalf of the state. Although the private-sector/tory types don't have any understanding of the concept (#56) I think that many (not all) people in some areas of the public sector have a real sense of 'duty' about what they do. Even cameron understands that when he was talking about the 'thin blue line' of police outside his HQ. Why else did those police still stand there when their lives were at risk?But apparently people like myself are now the enemy.So be it. My view is that it is now every man for himself. Those protests will have no effect during the life of this government. However, ongoing and persistent disorder will have a cumulative effect which will damage the perception of this government at the next election.I have contingency plans in place. They look after only me and certainly don't involve anything life saving. I find it a little reassuring to think of the huge amount the state has spent on my education to have it entirely unused/wasted in the future. Fri 12 Nov 2010 09:59:10 GMT+1 sensiblegrannie One has to remember that armies are specifically trained for working in conurbations as well as 'the field of battle.' To encourage or even suggest that violent action is the way to get what one wants, is frankly irresponsible. The violence and ensuing poverty, and the breakdown of society in Northern Ireland should be a lesson for everyone to remember. Violence leads to violence and gang law is much worse than legitimate government.A minority of kids at school try the tactic of violence and disruption at school, and it works for a while, until enough evidence is gathered about the activities and then (shock, horror, surprise, surprise) the parents find that their offspring is excluded from mainstream education. We live in a surveillance society and if we continuously break the law, evidence is gathered and we end up in trouble. It would be mindful to remember who is encouraging violent action. Those that are encouraging such action are probably sitting safe in the background, avoiding the situation themselves, but orchestrating others to do what they intelligently know that they can't.I strongly believe in the right to peaceful protest as it is part of our tradition of democracy. However, protest is a double edged sword that can work against the persons involved as well as against the issue being protested about. One would have to learn the art of political sword-fencing to use such a tool. Fri 12 Nov 2010 09:47:30 GMT+1 BROWNED_OFF AND CONNED #53 Steve "Perhaps if the Government were to endeavour to press for the payment of taxes from those who currently evade the system we wouldn't be needing this debate. The simple fact of the matter is that because of tax evasion this country is not bringing in the money it should be."Even under the wildest estimates, eliminating tax evasion would make only a slight dent on the deficit. The real problem is that government spending has been out of control in this country for most of the last decade. Money has been frittered away without any regard to outcomes or value for money. Also, when the recession hit, the government, already in substantial deficit, continued spending regardless, even as tax receipts were falling off a cliff!"I know I am right in saying that the last 12 years have been some of the best for this country" Sadly and tragically you are completely wrong. Wealth creation in the country has been stifled by high taxes, social costs, government bureaucracy and compliance costs at a time when countries such as China and other emerging economies are powering ahead. We have seen precious little wealth creation in the last 12 years and most of what has been generated has been squandered on an ever-growing and increasingly inefficient and overpaid public sector.Far from being some of the best, the last 12 years have left the country broke and barely able to defend itself militarily and from the growing threats from terrorism.If the decline is to be halted, radical surgery is needed. Wealth creation needs to be put at the top of the agenda, and impediments to wealth creation, including tax, red tape, compliance costs, and government interference, need to be reduced. Inevitably this means the inefficient public sector needs to be cut back aggressively.This is not just for the benefit of the wealth creators, but also for the benefit of those dependent on them, i.e. the users of public services and those on welfare.The alternative is that most of the country sinks into poverty. Fri 12 Nov 2010 09:42:57 GMT+1 One_Lars_Melvang 18. Michael said...'we are by and large a Socialist Nation'------------------------------------------------------------------------A curious observation. I see little evidence of this, thank goodness.The student protests serve as a timely reminder of all that is wrong with Leftist intolerance in this country. That tuition fees were introdued by Labour is conveniently forgotten and that we are in an economic crisis is simply ignored. This was simply an excuse for a riot against a government that a vociferous, vicious minority did not want. Perpetual Labour government (preferably with a sharp shift to the the left) is what these people want and they are furious that the rest of the country doesn't. Hence the visceral hatred of Clegg: for them, it would have been a worthy move for him to have propped up a discredited government, thereby denying the most popular political party having a say in government.I say fight fire with fire. If anarchists and the militant left want a fight then I hope the state responds in kind. Given our new-found closeness to the French, perhaps we could borrow their riot police. It would have been fun to watch the protesters try such antics against a stronger police force. Fri 12 Nov 2010 09:35:52 GMT+1 freindleonewhocares Feel that some have lost the point in this debate,as we are talking about one particular thing in our society,university education NOT funding of wars,the NHS or any other service.I agree with those who think it is wrong that this education should be free and also that if the "Mickey Mouse"degrees were abolished perhaps then the country could afford to pay for those genuine students that would be left.Ever since the late sixty's UNI has become just another excuse for many to play around for a few more years before living in the real world. Fri 12 Nov 2010 09:30:13 GMT+1 ProfPhoenix 27. At 4:05pm on 11 Nov 2010, jr4412 wrote: Dr Llareggub #19."Now many think that burning poppies is akin to burning the Koran.."really?"For many, it's the perfect chance to take off work or skip class and start the day with a beer and a clown costume."culture clash, eh?? LOL--------------------------------------------Congratulations on your sense of humour even though I fail to understand it. I have copied your posting and will take it to my neighbour who has just lost he son in Afghanistan. I am sure she will appreciate your humour. Fri 12 Nov 2010 09:29:51 GMT+1 Skye Mark, you say "Just imagine the reaction of public officials who had dedicated their lives to making state services more effective. "Why are public servants always treated as more noble than the rest of us?"Dedicated their lives". What rot. "whose job was..." is more accurate. Fri 12 Nov 2010 07:57:03 GMT+1 BROWNED_OFF AND CONNED 11. At 2:48pm on 11 Nov 2010, badgercourage wrote:"Mr EastonThis falls well below the standards of journalistic objectivity I expect from you.[....]If you want to campaign actively for more aggressive or at least assertive opposition to government policy, resign and don't use your privileged position at the BBC as a shield."______________________________#11 BadgercourageVery well said!Cameron's comments are taken totally out of context to obscure their meaning and then used foundations for an article critical of the government. This isn't good journalism, or good political analysis.It's pure bias - and unworthy of the BBC.. Fri 12 Nov 2010 07:40:15 GMT+1 PeteBristol Violence is a bad thing, but what it is what happens when there is no other way to express your views. In democracy politicians are supposed to listen to the voters and tell them the truth but what happens –lie about a politician and you get a re-run of a vote – you make a definite promise to the electorate to get their vote which turns out to be a lie and all we get is a half-hearted apology. If Oldham East and Saddleworth should be re-run so should every seat won by LibDems on the basis of their fees lie. A few students stupid in Milbank is criminal damage – LibDem electoral fraud is a direct attack on democracy. Democracy is something worth us all fighting for. Fri 12 Nov 2010 07:08:55 GMT+1 Chizzle Perhaps if the Government were to endeavour to press for the payment of taxes from those who currently evade the system we wouldn't be needing this debate. The simple fact of the matter is that because of tax evasion this country is not bringing in the money it should be. Those tax revenues would cover the deficit and allow the Government more funds to allocate to welfare, health, education, policing etc. But the Tories are big friends of those who evade taxes (point in case, Phillip Green giving them a helping hand to decide what should be cut). And the Tories don't want to annoy rich people. Fair enough, the Labour Government may have been equally as guilty of failing to close tax loopholes, but I know I am right in saying that the last 12 years have been some of the best for this country, after the long hard road of the previous Tory governments. Fri 12 Nov 2010 05:15:24 GMT+1 GeoffWard "....The likes of Doctors, Engineers, and hundreds of other graduates will simply ask for more money when they leave Uni with £30k debt and as there will be fewer of them they will get it. This will simply widen the distribution of wealth further." (Snoopies78 wrote @ 42)...............This used to be the transaction, but in a globalised world it does not add up. Foreign graduates willing to work for less will always displace high-wage-demanding British graduates. Only by preferential employment of UK graduates can these premium-priced graduates get jobs. Better graduates are normally found on the world-market, not the local market. Thu 11 Nov 2010 23:48:36 GMT+1 GeoffWard "The Berlin Humboldt university ranked 139 in the 2008 Times Higher Education ranking of 200 world universities. Berlin’s Freie Universität came in at 137, tied with Texas A&M in the U.S. The highest rank of any German university in the 2008 world rankings was 57th for Heidelberg."I offer this information because there is an assumption that national economic performance is causally correlated with the higher education of the country.It is my belief that the national economic performance is most highly causally correlated with the advanced technical skills training that a country affords its people.Advanced Technical Training is an area that the recent UK Governments have allowed to collapse - catastrophically and virtually totally. Thu 11 Nov 2010 23:19:06 GMT+1 KateCopestake You should all read this: they're right, the fees hike will not save the government money after all. What a fiasco! Thu 11 Nov 2010 22:04:19 GMT+1 efraser Why-oh-why pieces by angry young men? That would be angry young PEOPLE in respect to the thousands of women who marched yesterday. Students shouldn't have to stiffen the upper lip, teaching funding is being cut by 40% and students are being told that to get their not-so-well-taught degree they must accumulate mortgage sized proportions of debt. This government is sentencing students to a lifetime in the red, with little or no help from the state. This generation will be unable to purchase property and plan for the future in punishment for the mistakes of their elders. Students should march everywhere, shout louder than anyone else until this farce is undone. In addition it should be the prime aim of the student population to unseat any Liberal Democrat who does anything other than unequivocally vote 'no' to the measures. Just months ago Parliament promised us honesty and transparency, NOW is the time to hold them to it! Thu 11 Nov 2010 22:00:58 GMT+1 no_end One thing I've noticed is that a lot of people are getting very worked up at students going to university to do so-called 'useless' degrees.I'm currently just starting my A-levels, and I want to go on and study Maths at university, which is definitely NOT a useless subject. However, the fees increase means I probably wont be able to afford to go. Is that fair?N.B I've already got an A at A-level in maths. Thu 11 Nov 2010 21:59:38 GMT+1 Clockwork_Penguin sorry. Private Eye showed that it invested in etc. private eye doesn't run it and dont make it invest in things. apologies to mr hislop. Thu 11 Nov 2010 21:36:44 GMT+1 clamdip lobster claws MattFromBrum,Excellent point! It's corruption. They've been stealing the nation's money from the mouths of England's innocent babes. The nation's youth don't deserve this reckless stealing. The Brits need to fight for their children's future. Don't let them squander it. Thu 11 Nov 2010 21:28:30 GMT+1 Clockwork_Penguin I'd accept calls that students explain where the money will come from except for one big issue. This scheme is likely to cost the government more than the current system, as a far greater proportion of students default on their loan. There is currently a BBC article to this effect, which will no doubt prove it far more eloquently than i could. Furthermore, i am unconvinced as to the general severity of the crisis. After WW2 we had a deficit of about 250%, Compared with 70% today, yet we still managed to found the NHS and the welfare state. The conservatives and the rightwing media are playing it up, so they can push through ideologically driven policies.Case in point; Out of the quangos cut, ones promoting the interests of huge businesses have been kept (such as CDC, which Private Eye now invests in big businesses instead of sustainable development and has paid ridiculous sums to its managers) but removed organisations that help small business and protect consumer rights. Where will we fund higher education? How about Trident, or Vodaphone for that matter. We sure could do with that 6bn around about now. think people: What Would Atlee Do? Thu 11 Nov 2010 20:57:37 GMT+1 kai While i do agree that unis are important and the fees probably are being raised too high i do think there is a problem with the culture in this country for pushing everyone to go to uni regardless of whether they are doing something worthwhile or not. When i was in college i was constantly pushed by the teachers to go to uni, and by comparison i had to fight tooth and nail to do what i wanted - an electrical apprenticeship. And to be blunt the spending axe has to fall somewhere. If not students then who? I have yet to hear from anybody how we can save money and have great unis. So far the only thing that i have heard is that yet again i should pay more taxes so that someone else can benefit. Fair enough for doctors, scientists and etc but are you telling me that we should pay more for surfing studies and the football culture course about david beckham? Apologies for the long rant Thu 11 Nov 2010 20:27:44 GMT+1 PLtheLegend The thing is, people are so damn naiive - that the way of solving all problems is simply give them to the young uns. - What happened by a small minority of the 70 odd thousand peaceful protests was wrong and cannot be condoned, but its made fees the focus hasnt it?People should protest in what way they feel is right but they need to accept the responsibilities of it, so obviously of those who broke the law and criminally damaged buildings should be punished. But that shouldnt as people have said, diminish the right of everyone to protest for what they believe in.The issue as I see it is that the government have got greedy - raising the cap to 4 or 5 grand would be met with annoyance but recognition of the times - tripling fees smacks of the government lining their pockets - to be honest that is their personal aim. - The raising of tuition fees - means the government has to pay to cover the loans? - How will that money be raised - from the taxpayer. - Then students will pay back the fees to the government. Will they pass it onto you? No.The government are conning the People into thinking that Students pay nothing. - Some uni students of course did pay nothing, their names are Cameron, Clegg Cable - funny that, these are the people saying we pay too little. Perhaps they're the reasons why we have the enormous hike in the first place.FAIR Fees dont bother me, greed does however. When we're paying for our education, that strikes me as fair really. - You cant say much fairer than that.Cameron, Clegg et al should offer to pay for their education, - then we might see some of this unaffordable money work its way back on the table and enable our country to retain its FAIR system. Thu 11 Nov 2010 19:57:09 GMT+1 Snoopies78 Do people not realise that they will be paying for this one way or the other. Having such a educated population brings jobs into the country, which has a knock on effect to those people who don't get to Uni. We will lose not only the qualified jobs but those jobs that support them too.The likes of Doctors, Engineers, and hundreds of other graduates will simply ask for more money when they leave Uni with £30k debt and as there will be fewer of them they will get it. This will simply widen the distribution of wealth further.Taking funding away from Higher education is the type of short-term thinking that could see this country decline faster than ever before. Thu 11 Nov 2010 19:27:41 GMT+1 Robbo I have to say that regular readers of Mark's Blog will be aware of his his left wing tendencies but I don't think that particularly came through in this blog which was merely reflecting the relative lack of protest traditionally in the UK compared with other countries which is a fair analysis. Whether that changes as the 'effects' of the cuts come through is open to question but I doubt there will be any large scale co-ordinated protests with high levels of violence like in, say, Greece. Ironically I was blissfully unaware of the student protest yesterday so I decided to pop up to a bank off Millbank during my lunch break. I suddenly found that the bus stopped at Lambeth Palace and that Lambeth Bridge was shut to traffic so I had to get off and walk across. The next thing I knew hundreds of students appeared and I found myself walking across the bridge with them effectively part of the March. It was generally good natured and while there were the usual Socialist worker banners and middle aged paper-sellers, most of them I saw were from genuine students with banners from places like Sunderland student Union and Wales or home made ones with slogans like (and I quote) Sorry I'm poor. On my way back across the bridge I did see one person wearing a sort of skeletal type balaclava which made me wonder whether it was just fancy dress or something more sinister. I also used to work in Millbank Tower for about 10 years when the Labour Party (and the UN) were in residence. In those days the only significant protest I can remember (there were loads of small ones related to the UN) was by the Countryside Alliance. Strangely there was absolute no trouble at that. But there was no protest when the student top-up fees were introduced by Labour. So much for the 'nasty' Tories and the progressive and enlightened left. Thu 11 Nov 2010 18:56:32 GMT+1 mattfrombrum bigsammyb you say you have never received a penny from the state. So who repairs the road you drive on? Who empties your bin? Who treats you when you are sick? I think you will find you have received a lot from the state. Thu 11 Nov 2010 18:40:04 GMT+1 mattfrombrum tomb123: Just why is it that you can't have higher standards and lower fees? Finland tops the table for education and they have no fees. Sweden comes third and guess what? no fees. Most of those who are supporting these higher education cuts went to university without paying a penny in fees. I don't see many queuing up to pay back that money back to the government. Thu 11 Nov 2010 18:30:35 GMT+1 Anthony Why should I be asked to pay any of my taxes to this moronic bunch of moaning students. I had to take on weekend work to finance my course, is this too much to ask from any of these losers.I agree with MJRPeel about his comments on the 'Left Wing Claptrap' that the BBC reporters turn out.Its surely time for BBC News to represent all shades of opinion on the News Channel, and not to 'push' their own politically biased views forward. Thu 11 Nov 2010 17:27:53 GMT+1 Will Farrell Well they won't succeed if you fail to report the further actions students are already taking - students at Manchester University have occupied a building and asked that the accounts by opened up, so everyone knows where they will stand in the coming cuts: Thu 11 Nov 2010 17:03:28 GMT+1 stevebLondon David Cameron said there weren't enough Police at yesterday's demonstration.That's even before the cuts in Police numbers in London come into effect.So yes, terrysolihull, expect restrictions in democratic rights. You can't expect the LibDems to protect them - they've already sold out any principles they ever had at the first sniff of power. Thu 11 Nov 2010 16:54:25 GMT+1 clamdip lobster claws Students should be a nation's priority, from birth through university as they are the drivers of innovation. When a government sidelines a nation's resources for their own selfish agenda it destroys a nation's fabric. These young people know they've been ripped off and they're angry about it. When is enough, enough? Thu 11 Nov 2010 16:38:07 GMT+1 BonScott It's your stiff upper lips that is your demise here in England. That's why you have a cctv camera everywhere watching you, because your lips are too stiff to move, to say something, same thing with the recent wars, stiff upper lips that tremble only when a few brave paid killer soldiers are returned in coffins or when explosives are planted on planes, but no lip movement when all these thousands of families are ruined in the middle east by your wars. Then those lips softening and offering support to the bewildered refugees that you have caused in the first place along with your mates who don't really consider you as much as you think namely the US. All this hypocrisy and your cowardliness renamed stiff upper lipness! As for this paper Ms Applebaum(apple tree) mentions, The Socialist Worker, a few people DO read it, the thinking people that is in this country, and that includes many students, and many foreigners living here who haven't been corroded by this stiff upper lip have a cup of tea and have a little moan about how the biscuits have gone soft, and how a few windows were broken at the Conservative HQ. Too bad they did not bring the whole building down if you ask me, as well as your blood covered warmongering parliament.What about all of us who don't want our bloody taxes to go into your military excursions in the middle east, can we have a refund please? The UK and the US are causing all the wars, all the hatred and all the repercussions, all these global crises and so on. It's all your fault, no more wars, no more hatred! No more wars, less military spending, more money in the pot for times like these, instead of robbing the poor or the students of the few benefits they get. Mr Cameron wants to make everyone who gets benefits to try to work otherwise they will not be able to get benefits, but Mr Cameron who originally lives near me in Portobello, doesn't see all these young etnhic minority kids in the council estates, with no chances or opportunities in life(things should come early, otherwise these youngsters miss the boat), selling weed, stealing from cars, and trying to knock my door down to rob me. Well you see I feel anger when I see these things, but then I feel really sorry for these kids, at least I was given a chance in life because my parents were better off. Now Mr Cameron wants to make life even more difficult for these families. I am not saying that I promote benefit fraud or laziness, but I can understand how all these people with no education, no incentive or push to look into educating themselves, and no chances, fall into this depressing state of not wanting to do anything and avoiding work. They never learned anything else, never got the taste, so they will end up doing what they know, selling drugs and committing petty crime to go by.And as for your last comments about how you can't see the British coming out en masse out in the streets, that's because, the former colonial past, ipods, video games, lager and consumerism(a bit tighter now of course) have made the British population a docile kind of human species, living to pay a mortgage or for the weekend and avoid anything challenging their borrowed beliefs or thoughts. Stiff upper neocortex more like it! What is the solution? To have hope that these younger generations of students will react with force to this decadent society of no morals, abuse of human rights, no respect, broken families, disturbed individuals, and apathy towards their suffering war victims. The older ones have lived in this upper stiffness for too long and are a bit useless to change anything in their society anymore.It's people like you m Thu 11 Nov 2010 16:33:44 GMT+1 terrysolihull Will this demonstration make Teresa May think again about reducing police numbers. What if the students decide to make multiple demonstrations around the country, even peaceful ones need policing.Can demonstrations be banned on the grounds of not sufficient police?.What price democracy more spending on police to allow demonstrations or stick to police cuts. Thu 11 Nov 2010 16:18:47 GMT+1 jh 22 YiannisI agree with your points but education is investment, not spending.Education creates what economists call a positive externality. The individual receiving the education benefits directly and everyone else benefits too from the extra wealth created. So the "fair" model is for the student to pay a bit and for the state, representing everyone else, to pay the rest. Both participants will be incetivised to demand good value. And schools might benefit from similar economics.Bigsammyb actually has benefited from university education, just indirectly (only through lower than otherwise taxes if we're really to believe he/she has never taken a penny from the state). And bigsammyb will hopefully benefit from a long retirement partly paid for by future graduates. This is what we risk by not investing in the future. Thu 11 Nov 2010 16:14:14 GMT+1 JohnDoe I'm sorry, but I have yet to see any coherent plan from any student on how their education should be financed. The country simply doesn't have the money to support the aggressive expansion in student numbers that have occurred in the past couple of decades (under the auspices of various governments).It would seem that "free" higher education is mutually exclusive with the notion that almost every school leaver should go to university. Would students accept full grants back if the scope/number of university courses were radically curtailed?If they're not going to answer that question, perhaps they'd like to recommend what is cut instead so that university funding can be ring-fenced? Otherwise it's simply cuts NIMBYism and special pleading. Thu 11 Nov 2010 16:11:17 GMT+1 bigsammyb "22. At 3:35pm on 11 Nov 2010, yiannis wrote:"If you read my entire post you would see i think it is perfectly possible for university to be 100% free for those who require it and for the rest to actually get a superior education.My objection is one of principle, especially in the context of the out of control cost.But if we did things properly it would be possible for all to get the best education their is. Thu 11 Nov 2010 16:10:27 GMT+1 addh The students have a reason to feel disappointed when there counterparts in other EU countries like Germany get university education for free, they have to pay huge fees for a lot of not so good universities in England Thu 11 Nov 2010 16:10:05 GMT+1 Angel Star @ tomb123 Well said - I agree entirely. I would welcome and join any Tea-Party movement to rid these people of their pathetic socialist attempts to make the rest of us pay for them to do nothing. I work for a university and believe me, the waste of taxpayers money on students who drop out and other atrocities is disgusting. It is taken for granted. And no one is asking them to pay 9 grand a year upfront, they pay back when they earn over 21k a year, most will never pay it back at all. What is unfair about that? I had to pay back when earning £15k a year. I don't want to pay for useless courses that produce useless degrees. Any national graduate shortages, Medicine, Nursing, Engineering, Science etc. fine and happy to pay from public purse. Public HE spending should be informed by projection of what graduates the country will need and anyone else should pay for themselves! Thu 11 Nov 2010 16:09:29 GMT+1 jr4412 Dr Llareggub #19."Now many think that burning poppies is akin to burning the Koran.."really?"For many, it's the perfect chance to take off work or skip class and start the day with a beer and a clown costume."culture clash, eh?? LOL Thu 11 Nov 2010 16:05:33 GMT+1 LouisW YiannisI didn't go to university either, but am happy that my taxes paid for a bright person to go, you're right about attitude. My doctor/dentist went and I for one am gladHowever, we get nothing for free. We are taxed to the hilt, some so subtle most people don't even realise they are taxes going into the coffers.We can be taxed from the day we are born, and HMRC will ensure all taxes due during our life are collected, even if we are already dead.Don't let anyone tell you you are getting anything for free. Subsidised yes, free - never. Thu 11 Nov 2010 16:00:40 GMT+1 WelshBluebird1 @bigsammyb What sort of coures?The sort of courses like Physics, Computer Science, Engineering, Maths etc you mean? The subjects that this country needs graduates in. Thu 11 Nov 2010 15:58:56 GMT+1 LouisW I am glad the students had enough gumption to get out and protest. We have been conned by every government into believing that the huge taxes the average UK citizen is burdened with was to pay for health and education for all.The powers that be have squandered, wasted and frittered our money for generations. Now they haven't enough to fritter they are hounding us and our young people for more. We're still not allowed to control our own destiny tho are we? They don't say "we're incompetent, keep your own money and sort your own health and education out" Shut your mouths british people, just keep paying. The government can't afford?!?! NEITHER CAN WE ANY MORE - THEY'VE TAKEN IT ALL ALREADY. Thu 11 Nov 2010 15:53:42 GMT+1 Guzzie My two neighbors have recently completed university degrees - one in Media Studies the other in Event Management. One now works in an office doing clerical work the other in a shop (part time). Why was I taxed to pay for them to spend three years at university wasting their time and my money doing courses with no useful outcome. If students want to be educated towards a clear objective - medicine, science etc. - that's a very good thing and we should be concentrating funding on education that provides this and stop providing students with subsidies to attend what for many is nothing more than a three year social event. Thu 11 Nov 2010 15:51:33 GMT+1 yiannis 6:bigsammybYou mention that you don't want to pay for the universities through your taxes because you have never been to university. Now now, the taxes that we pay are used for a lot of services that if we are lucky in our lives, they will never cross our paths. For example, police, fire service, NHS. There is a big chunk of the UK population that given the option they would not want to pay for the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, but they do actually and that is through their tax. I believe that this is not the right attitude. Not everything in a modern society can be a pay as you go scheme. If anything the "Big Society" with no free education is a step backwards. It is a very sad, sad thing and I do pity the LibDems that in order for them to stay "in power" they are selling themselves that cheaply. Needless to say that after this they have condemned themselves to never be in power again, until the party gets a complete overhaul of names.Take a look at our distant cousins from across the pond. I do not think that there is a single individual that would like to have to pay to be treated in any hospital. NHS might not be the best system, but is is for free. If education goes then what's next? health care? a monthly direct debit to the police which if you do not pay they will not turn up? I know it sounds ridiculous now, but 20 years ago if someone was to come up with the same mumbo jumbo about higher education fees everyone would thinking whether they are crazy or not.On a different note, one can argue that the plethora of mickey mouse degrees is a sign that our civilisation was evolved from the basic trades that you had to chose from, generations ago. If anything it is a sign of social progress. Thu 11 Nov 2010 15:35:57 GMT+1 Have your say Rejected I think the right wing majority media has done a good job at perverting the argument for or against cuts. The right wing agenda has been forced on the people through the media, a few months ago there was an argument on how cuts should be made, now that argument has been replaced with some contrived condem message about blame and fault on the recession, full of rhetoric but lacking any real substance, full of massive cuts but lacking the plans for future growth, which is essential for the economy. The public are so brainwashed by the 'age of austerity' message, many have taken this opinion as fact. Thu 11 Nov 2010 15:32:37 GMT+1 Davestargalactica To quote the Joker .."Introduce a little anarchy ... upset the established order, then everything becomes Chaos..." I feel this quote best represents the situation yesterday, mass protest no one cares, but someone smashes a window and starts a bonfire, and suddenly the worlds ending. Some people really need some perspective, especially the media, whats the real crime; broken window, or condeming hundred of thousands of the next generation into what will be a lifetime of debt? I thought this "we are all in this together" carp is about avoiding burdening the next generation with bankers/our debt? Hilariously, has anyone notcied they've removed the picture of the economics student on the Browne Report "your views" section, the one who said he supported the browne report? And the award for most unpopular student on campus goes too..... Thu 11 Nov 2010 15:23:47 GMT+1 ProfPhoenix Funny how some protests are widely reported and protestors strongly condemned. Today this country held a two minutes silence for the fallen. An organised protest by radical Islamists who burnt a poppy and chanted 'British soldiers burn in hell' during the two minutes silence has not been reported by the BBC. Now many think that burning poppies is akin to burning the Koran and displaying hate towards soldiers on their day of rememrance is about as hateful as you can get. Yet all we are hearing from the BBC is the protests about students. Come on Mark Easton report the news. Thu 11 Nov 2010 15:23:08 GMT+1 michael congrats to the students for being the first in the up-coming winter of discontent to stand up and protest.shame they did not burn millbank to the ground, that would have taught that two faced lieing coward and traitor to the nation Nick Clegg a lesson.A man is only as good as his word. And Nick Clegg's word is a coward, traitor, and his personality is true to the colour of his party - Yellow.Nick Clegg is the 21st century Gollom, his has had the offer and taste of a bit of power and his precious will do anything and say anything just to drink from that sacred chalice.Take my advice NC, go try your yellow personality traits in the true countries of your ancestors: the netherlands and russia - we dont want or need you or your kind in the UK - being British is about being fair, just, and Yes we are by and large a Socialist Nation. Thu 11 Nov 2010 15:17:06 GMT+1 Optimism Say what you will about their message, but at least these students are actively trying to get involved, rather than whinging about it on BBC News Blogs. Thu 11 Nov 2010 15:16:56 GMT+1 Megan Politicians seem oblivious to the wishes of their employers these days. If politicians paid attention when we the citizens tell them what we will and will not accept, there would be no need for even peaceful demonstrations, let alone violent ones. Thu 11 Nov 2010 15:16:53 GMT+1 jimfo To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.Inflict financial violence and the reaction will be physical violence.This is a fundamental law and its effect will be exacerbated by Cameron hiring a personal snapsho artist an a bunch of professional liars (spin doctors)I am apolitical and unbiased in my opinions of polititians, I think most of them are self seeking egotrippers who are thouroughly incompetent at running anything. Thu 11 Nov 2010 14:59:58 GMT+1 Neil Theasby So many rights, so many freedoms grew from ordinary people's protests - many of them brave and yes, violent. Unexpurgated history books are bursting with examples. Just because we now live in a modern, more technologically advanced world does not mean that protest is meaningless. I salute the students who descended on London in their thousands yesterday. The Tory government with their LibDem lapdogs in tow need to take stock and understand that their vindictive plans for ordinary families, the elderly, the unemployed, and our student population will not be foisted upon this wonderful country without further bitter protests. Thu 11 Nov 2010 14:59:40 GMT+1 MJRPEEL A typical BBC article quoting Cameron completely out of context. Why we have to pay for the BBC to produce this left-wing political clap-trap I do not know? Things were bliss a few days ago when these pernicious people were on strike. Thu 11 Nov 2010 14:57:46 GMT+1 jim3227 tomb 123 Well said I for one have lost any sympathy I may have had with anti cuts brigade and when you start the T party let me and other like minded people know as Im in Thu 11 Nov 2010 14:56:02 GMT+1 badgercourage Mr EastonThis falls well below the standards of journalistic objectivity I expect from you.You clearly feel the cuts are wrong. Fair enough, many agree with you, or at least like me that they are being pursued unnecessarily zealously. But you are a BBC reporter, not a campaigner or a politican.If you want to campaign actively for more aggressive or at least assertive opposition to government policy, resign and don't use your privileged position at the BBC as a shield. Thu 11 Nov 2010 14:48:15 GMT+1 Briantist I did see someone with a sign saying "Down with this sort of thing". And also that there was a popular F-word on that guy's face on the 10 O'Clock News last night.The Socialist Worker lot are well know for their placard production. I seem to remember in the past that people often used to tear off the top of the placards to remove the offending three word advert.I have to say I used to love going on demos in the 1980s. You made a bit of a point, but you also met loads of people (Ian McKellen on an Intercity 125 was a highlight). Thu 11 Nov 2010 14:40:52 GMT+1 AuntieLeft Again the media, especially the BBC, know that these thugs where Socialist Workers and anarchists, but again they portray them as students. Some like Clare Solomon, head of the London Students (39 year old 'student') maybe both. The left are gagging for a fight and the leftist in the media (again sadly the BBC most guilty) have deliberately not been putting OUR governments message across because of political bias. The misinformation and pro Labour spin (ie Douglas Alexander get more airtime than Iain Duncan Smith ) is sad when the incompetents who got us in the mess are spinning their lies again. Infiltrate and agitate is the Trots mantra, BBC, they have and they are. Thu 11 Nov 2010 14:40:50 GMT+1 terailover Yes, perhaps but pointless. Thu 11 Nov 2010 14:40:20 GMT+1 jr4412 Mark Easton."But, at the moment, I struggle to see how opposition to the age of austerity can move from small-scale demos to the kind of national movement that brings millions onto the streets of France or Greece.""So, when the cuts really start to bite..":-- the number of 'working poor' will increase."..of the children currently living in poverty, 1.7 million live in working households, compared to 1.1 million in unemployed households, with the former figure on the rise."-- the number of unemployed will increase (even after the figures have been 'massaged')"..unemployment looks set to gradually rise to a peak of just over 2.9 million by mid 2013.."(the same report mentions currently "8.19 million economically inactive")-- the number of people unable to afford housing will increase."..this backlog [unmet housing need] is considerable, comprising around a million households in various circumstances."-- the number of people requiring help with 'the basics' will increase."UK families to receive poverty handouts""..almost 13 million people in the UK live below the poverty line.."it may take another two to three years, but when the proverbial hits the fan, the splash will be big; and if by then there's no "national movement" behind which the desparate can unite to protest, it may lead to very ugly scenes indeed. Thu 11 Nov 2010 14:37:55 GMT+1 bigsammyb If students want to continue to go to university studying the sorts of courses they are they are going to have to pay.Why should i pay? I never had a university education, i pay taxes and have done since i was seventeen. And i have never had a single penny off the state in all that time.So what makes a load of students who, have not put a single penny in to this countries kitty, think that people like me should pay their way?The truth is far too many young people go to university in the first place. Not only is this expensive and wasteful, but it is also not giving them a very good education for the jobs they aspire too.Unless you are studying law, medicine or a select few other subjects then you should not go to university. Instead you should be doing aprenticeships or going to privatley run polytechnics.Why don't we have google colleges? Why don't we have BP Acadamies? Why don't we have apreticeships in small businesses?The big problem is discrimination. For some reason our government have given society the idea if you don't have a degree you are worthless as where in reality for many subjects ie: IT you'd have a far greater knowledge of the subject if you learned it on the job.This country has far to great a emphasis on having a peice of paper saying you know things and not enough emphasis on ACTUALLY knowing things.If the only people who went to university were the ones who should go then we could easily afford to send them all their for free. Thu 11 Nov 2010 14:34:36 GMT+1 Phil I have two things to say - 1) "Careful now!"and 2) "Down with this sorth of thing!) Thu 11 Nov 2010 14:32:42 GMT+1 tomb123 Those people on that march are an embarassment to our country, and they exemplify the kind of moronic "march culture" we seem to be being gripped by. Quite apart from the fact that the windows they broke did not even belong to the Conservative Party (they belonged to the owner of the Millbank Tower), even if they had, I'm sure the Conservative Party are insured.Their march did nothing other than to harden sentiment against their 'cause'. People are already questioning why it is that they object to BOTH paying higher fees and a dropping standard of university education. Surely it has to be one or the other?This protest will have achieved nothing, and what an excellent result at that.There will almost certainly be marches over the next few years to complain about cuts. But I disagree with them. What are the odds of someone in the UK (maybe myself) starting an economically-Conservative "Tea Party UK" movement to campaign strongly in favour of the government attempting to do something about the deficit as they are doing? I'd march for that. We could even march against these idiots who march against cuts in their entirety. Thu 11 Nov 2010 14:07:19 GMT+1 watriler The real and bulk effect of the cuts have yet to hit the fan. Thousands of public sector redundancies are being planned or processed and the cuts to benefits are mainly not immediate. I expect the government to have face more civil unrest as time goes on. Whether they have to deal with a winter of discontent remains to be seen. Their position will worsen if as trailed by Ireland the coalition cuts dont work. Brixton riots, poll tax punch up and not forgetting the miners' strike show that large sections of the British public are prepared to mix it with the establishment.If the cuts dont work (i.e. reduce deficit and promote growth) protest will not be confined to a relatively small part of the population. Try this for size - when the cuts impact on children's education as they will do and probably in middle class areas it wont be just the zit encrusted SWP who will be on the streets. Thu 11 Nov 2010 14:05:30 GMT+1 WolfiePeters For the UK to have a future, we have to provide the best education possible to our young people. That certainly does not mean sending everyone to university; indeed, we exaggerated and misled in making every technical college into a university. We need all kinds of education for all kinds of people. However, cutting costs on education is no way forward. Neither is charging excessive fees. Am I the only one who finds the possibility that student fees might exceed the basic state pension something strangely inconsistent.We have lost so much of what was good in the UK. Yet, our best universities are still amongst the best in the world - and that's no great thanks to UKgov of any colour. We have to protect them, make them even better and try to bring the rest of the country up to the same standard. Education is one of the things worth protesting for. Thu 11 Nov 2010 14:04:20 GMT+1 Kit Green Mark, you say: "I struggle to see how opposition to the age of austerity can move from small-scale demos"after having said:"..when the cuts really start to bite, people will respond the way they have for generations. They will demand the government "do something". They may march on Downing Street demanding change." and "Whitehall is under instruction to be deaf to their pleas."You have just answered your own question. Thu 11 Nov 2010 13:39:48 GMT+1