Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html en-gb 30 Wed 23 Jul 2014 20:22:52 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html Aaron http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=99#comment119 @ 105 MarcusAureliusIIDon't be hypocritical. Israel is no different than Britain in influencing and in remote cases even demanding that the The United States align with its foreign policy goals. Ciao Tue 22 Jun 2010 07:41:57 GMT+1 aristotles23 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=98#comment118 In response to many comments......The pro-uncontrolled immigration policies adopted by the western governments were ostensibly to rectify birth-rate problems among indigenous populations,however,the much touted policy of multiculturalism actually threatens EVERY ethnicity with the same result,the result being the destruction of ALL national identities of ALL peoples from ALL countries.This is not so that we can become one big happy family,its not a reflection of humanist principles,but an exercise in globalising human culture to the extent of removing any legitimacy of national,cultural and ethnic identity.We are to become one homogenous mass of global product consumers,happy shoppers in the paradise of the new world order global village shopping-mall.Why do you think that only western media ever talk about racism? In my experience as a charity worker in many countries around the world,there is just as much racism everywhere else as in the west,quite often more so,but to read/listen to our media,you'd be forgiven for thinking that its a purely western phenomena,the undeserved guilt that is foisted off upon the western democratic peoples is a despicable act of hypocrisy and deceit,by international vested interests,the era of global fascist hegemony has begun in earnest,watch and learn.... Sun 20 Jun 2010 11:36:26 GMT+1 Buzzardstubble since 2007 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=97#comment117 As someone who himself works around the world and has emigrated from the UK, I would like to say that the part of Kent which I moved from had many Polish immigrants.They spoke English, were hard working, polite and a pleasure to meet. If economic pressures are currently driving them back home, I hope they leave some of their culture behind. They are possibly the best thing that EU membership has brought to Britain. Wed 09 Jun 2010 21:52:40 GMT+1 Pierre http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=96#comment116 Good article and good to see the facts, that non EU migrants are not quite the arch villians and enemies of the British people.This type of information needs to be spread wider, because non EU immigrants have been a convenient scapegoat and political football, with no means to defend themselves.Like all people, the British will become reasonable when they have the facts.Come proportional representation, it would be good to have an Immigrant Party to counteract the BNP. It will draw a lot of votes! Wed 09 Jun 2010 07:28:03 GMT+1 ichabod http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=95#comment115 The nett migration figures tell us about quanity but not about quality. If the arrivals are low skilled economic migrants and the emigrants are professional managers, scientists, doctors etc then are we as a country actually benefitting ?? And if not, how moral is it that we allow e.g. foreign doctors from Asia into the country instead of training our own ? Should they not be working in the country that trained them, presumably at great expense, or does the UK government slip some money into India as a thank you for training doctors destined for the UK on the cheap?Immigration was always about Labour jerrymandering millions of votes for itself. It was never about economic well being. How do we now? First, because that level of incompetence just could not be by chance. Second, because the GDP per capita has not increased, if anything it has gone down in the last few years. If immigration was beneficial the GDP per capita would have significantly increased. Instead in towns like my own there are no longer enough school places for our kids. Tue 08 Jun 2010 11:12:07 GMT+1 Diana_France http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=95#comment114 I am very glad that people from the former eastern bloc have been allowed to live and work in the UK. They work hard at jobs British people prefer not to do. One young Latvian lady is particularly welcome and has become an important member of my own family, so I hope she won't be going back to live in Latvia! In fact she speaks excellent English, loves Britain, and is training to do a valuable job after a few years of more menial work.On the other hand, my spouse and I have retired from England to France, and are very happy here. Why should we not move around Europe? The days when the inhabitants of one village were not allowed to move to another were over centuries ago. So long as incomers aren't a drain on society, what is the objection? The English language itself has poached from so many other languages that it is clear there has always been immigration and integration in the UK, and none of us can really claim to be "pure" British. Only the speed of movement has changed. Tue 08 Jun 2010 11:02:43 GMT+1 happybrian123 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=94#comment113 Its good to know that somebody knows and knows he knows. The truth is out its costing us money. Mon 07 Jun 2010 15:59:15 GMT+1 The Bloke http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=93#comment112 45 Daisy"Building houses, affordable houses, changing rental laws, inhibiting buy to let deals, controlling rents, controlling second (and subsequent) home purchases through strong financial penalties, giving tenants strong rights to buy or part purchase their rentals, and so on would be good places to start. The more enlightened economists would also observe that all these policy commitments would have prevented or at least ameliorated the hot air "boom and bust" of the noughties.We do not need a return to scapegoat riots to correct the sins of immigration ignorance. We just need someone in government who really knows what "fair is fair" actually means. "No, we need a government, and a BBC, able to tell the truth about immigration. We have suffered from massive nett immigration, boosting the population, and impacting negatively on our environment and economy.The supporters of immigration need to understand the basic facts - increased supply of labour leads to less jobs and lower wages for workers here. Also, more people means more housing - so we're paving over the countryside to accommodate an ever-growing population.Also, you people never factor in the costs of providing housing, schooling, healthcare etc for the immigrants, or explain why we should pay.Basically, you got it wrong. Labour ex ministers have admitted immigration lost them the election. The BBC has never been truthful about the issue. Now Labour's 'come out', the BBC should, too. Mon 07 Jun 2010 10:39:40 GMT+1 Noel Woodroffe http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=92#comment111 Sorry but we should never have allowed the EU to dictate/decide who is able to live in our country. As for some comments regarding the claim that immigration is usually good for society I can give several examples where it has been disastrous for the country's social structure. Take the post Spanish era of the Philippine islands as an easy starter. So to all the screaming, quite clever, proponents of fairness and racial equality out here on this blog........May I suggest you visit a few other societies in the world to see just how laughable your attitudes are to the majority of the world's population. Is it any wonder we are seen as stupid and an easy mark? Sun 06 Jun 2010 03:43:17 GMT+1 screenname1001 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=91#comment110 Foreigners come becoz they like you, so why are some Brits so angry and so hostile towards foreigners? Countries are like football teams, if someone has played for your team for yonks surely a bit of acceptance, no matter how grudgingly given, is due? Fri 04 Jun 2010 21:49:53 GMT+1 nautonier http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=90#comment109 I have no problem with immigration so long as it is controlled, fair, proportional and affordable and most important of all ... reciprocatedHow many Brits have made it to eastern Europe during the same period... a few hundred at the most?Immigration must be reciprocated to be fair ... we should also be taking in more English speaking Americans, Canadians, Australians ... also ... again, so long as the arrangements with these countries are reciprocated ... as most Brits face a language disadvantage in moving to work or live overseas ... so it never happens for most Brits although we're expected to sit back and say nothing while hoardes of foreigners take our jobs, University places, hospital care etc... or be branded some kind of racist by the British back stabbing liberalised yellow striped wussie sell out coward club.Reciprocity is the only real measure of fairness with immigration. It's time to take our country back and make sure that things are done properly. Fri 04 Jun 2010 17:42:38 GMT+1 John B http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=90#comment108 The main issue here is still one of trust and competence of the government.Before the new countries joined the EU the Government predicted only around 13,000 would arrive to work in the UK every year. In 6 years that works out to about 78,000. Of course the government weren't going to listen to voters who voiced concerns that those numbers were unrealistic. And what happened? The net immigration rose by more than 12 times that number over 6 years. That's quite a big difference.So now the government are going to put a cap on non-eu immigration. Why? What is that going to achieve other than to deprive the country of better skilled/educated workers.It's not the number of immigrants, or the fact that most are from Poland, rather that the government miscalculated so badly. And their solution is a white wash. Why should we trust the government at all. They are so out of touch with the majority of the population. Fri 04 Jun 2010 13:03:45 GMT+1 dinosaur http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=89#comment107 #106And for those who benefit from the cheap labour, it's really quite convenient if the various victims squabble among themselves - the whole race/immigration wrangle serves their purposes. Fri 04 Jun 2010 09:41:59 GMT+1 Tommy Brock http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=88#comment106 I have to agree with a number of others above that this is quite a poor article, even by blog standards. The title is misleading (it ought to refer to Eastern Europeans) and the statement "...arguably it has been the presence of hundreds of thousands of Poles, Latvians and Albanians that has driven ministers to promise a cap on non-EU skilled workers." is, well, arguable. I would suspect that the majority of people are more concerned about immigration from countries outside the EU, and, particularly, from muslim ones....like, for instance, Albania. I have to say that Mr Easton's lack of knowledge of geography and the membership of the EU really is lamentable, particularly from someone who is the "BBC's home editor".Poor. Fri 04 Jun 2010 09:19:17 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=87#comment105 dinosaur #102."What this may be showing is that there is a large sector at the bottom end of our labour market where the rewards don't actually allow the worker a sustainable life in the UK.."spot on.The UK has a higher proportion of its population in relative low income than most other EU countriesLoughborough research shows increased minimum wage still not enough to meet a minimum living standard Thu 03 Jun 2010 18:49:03 GMT+1 MarcusAureliusII http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=86#comment104 I've noticed that there appears to be a recent flood of English accents to America in general and New York City in particular. They've come here not merely for visits but to live and work. This suggests that the increasing tide of emigration of English from the UK is starting to resemble rats deserting a sinking ship. Speaking about a sinking ship, that macaroon you've just chosen for a Prime Minister had better keep his Foreign Secretary William Plague on a tight leash. His comments in the BHOC saying he will put strong pressure on the US government to get Israel to end its blockade of Gaza will be as welcome on this side of the atlantic as a fart in church. If this is how the new government is going to behave towards the US, it won't be any more welcome here than the last one was. Keeping Gordon Brown in a waiting room for half an hour after his appointment at the White House and snubbing him at Copenhagen was no accident, it was a message. Right now between Megrahi and BP, Britain is not very popular in the US. It could become downright hostile. Thu 03 Jun 2010 12:27:14 GMT+1 westy222 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=85#comment103 I really don't understand the problem. We've all migrated for thousands of years to different parts of Europe. We wouldn't had the industrial revolution without massive european immigration for the forges,the mills,the mines etc etc.Should Germany also then be worried about the hundreds of thousands of Brits currently working there escaping the recession in the UK?(Yes, I'm working in Germany too,lol!!!) Thu 03 Jun 2010 11:34:00 GMT+1 Stan Pomeray http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=85#comment102 "The trouble is, both my boys have been displace in the English workforce by Poles. They can Get On Their Bike and try elsewhere - like Latvia, but should they have to?"Why does it have to be Latvia? They are free to work in any country of the EU, just as they are free to work in any county or region of the UK.But I agree, sitting on your backside and whinging is easier (and Britain's core skill, in my experience). Thu 03 Jun 2010 10:37:31 GMT+1 dinosaur http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=84#comment101 An alternative and less rosy interpretation. What this may be showing is that there is a large sector at the bottom end of our labour market where the rewards don't actually allow the worker a sustainable life in the UK - ie the only way to build a life (eg home, family) is to regard them as something to be suffered for a few years while scraping together savings, which will then allow the worker to build a real life in a lower cost economy. For eastern Europeans, this is an opportunity to get a start at home after a spell here. For the UK citizen it's just another element of the poverty/benefits trap. Thu 03 Jun 2010 08:06:43 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=83#comment100 93. At 11:23am on 01 Jun 2010, General_Jack_Ripper wrote:BiiBoidshateu wrote (on a previous blog):You`re either pro-White,or pro-White genocideAnti-racist is a code word for anti-whiteIn other words; BiiBoidshateu is a racist who has succumbed to paranoid delusions and right-wing propaganda...xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxNever mind about your pitiful PC labels("racist").I`m a pro-White advocate and very proud of that fact. Wed 02 Jun 2010 16:33:11 GMT+1 Stunned_Silence http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=82#comment99 '"he has an interesting point of view"Andrew Marr: "And the final answer, frankly, is the vigorous use of state power to coerce and repress."LOL'you've got some brass neck to complain about coersion and repression... Tue 01 Jun 2010 20:29:38 GMT+1 Tom W http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=81#comment98 Some people frequently use the concerns of a net inward migration ("the country's filling up!") as a smokescreen for their 'concerns' about immmigration ("we're being over-run by foriegners").To its credit, the new government is setting its targets in terms of net migration, albeit by reducing immigration. If it's really serious about reducing net migration, it would be a lot easier to encourage people to do what I did and emmigrate. (Of course, another country then gets the benefit of my expensive UK-taxpayer funded education and training - but net migration is down, so it's all good, right?). Tue 01 Jun 2010 14:25:31 GMT+1 Beth McGrath http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=80#comment97 This post has been Removed Tue 01 Jun 2010 13:33:13 GMT+1 Brian Berlin http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=80#comment96 "The recipe of our planned destruction is clear as day:Democratisation,disenfranchment,and then the final mopping up operation a la S.Africa and Zimbabwe."LOL - diddums den. Look up the words 'paranoia' 'fear' 'foreigners' and 'racial' on a well-known search-engine. Tue 01 Jun 2010 12:44:28 GMT+1 Brian Berlin http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=79#comment95 "Invasion" "tide" "wave". You MUST know that these emotive words are the delight of the anti-immigrant-brigade, copied and pasted originally from the more rabid columnists of the Sun, Mail etc.You know that, yet choose to use them in the headline and body of your text. A bit deplorable, no? Tue 01 Jun 2010 12:38:11 GMT+1 SSnotbanned http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=78#comment94 Either way, it is a coment on Britain. We are not so delightful/charming to live with these days. Immigration down and emigration up.One could say 120,000 migrants can't be wrong, but that still leaves 60 odd million perfectly happy with the ol' country....But are they really ??Maybe to accompany these figures you could ask/survey UK residents, if they had the chance, would they like to live somewhere else (and what change would make that thought come about) ??? Tue 01 Jun 2010 11:47:50 GMT+1 Kudospeter http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=77#comment93 agree with the people critising the use of the word invasion. Intuiatively although there may be net migration, i suspect there is a high propensity of people leaving the country being retired as compared to people entering the country, so on one aspect, there may still be pressure on UK jobs Tue 01 Jun 2010 10:29:00 GMT+1 General_Jack_Ripper http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=76#comment92 BiiBoidshateu wrote (on a previous blog):You`re either pro-White,or pro-White genocideAnti-racist is a code word for anti-whiteIn other words; BiiBoidshateu is a racist who has succumbed to paranoid delusions and right-wing propaganda... Tue 01 Jun 2010 10:23:21 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=75#comment91 BiiBoidshateu #91."What is the term for a xenophile though..?A leftist?"how about 'human'? Tue 01 Jun 2010 09:46:45 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=75#comment90 What is the term for a xenophile though,jr442?A leftist? Tue 01 Jun 2010 04:36:56 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=74#comment89 Nina Szombately #83."..the UK press pushes the notion that everyone speaks English, and everyone comes to Britain."..a "Little Englander" is applied to those who are regarded as xenophobic..:-) Tue 01 Jun 2010 04:14:06 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=73#comment88 88. At 11:24pm on 31 May 2010, Stunned_Silence wrote:"he has an interesting point of view"Andrew Marr: "And the final answer, frankly, is the vigorous use of state power to coerce and repress."LOL Mon 31 May 2010 23:18:56 GMT+1 Stunned_Silence http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=72#comment87 'So,the stunnedsilence thinks the British establishment are against immigration?'look at the legislation. Look at the Home Office entrance criteria and how they've changed with time. Talk to some immigrants. Then you'll have no option but to agree with me.what andrew marr says is not relevant, he has an interesting point of view which we can debate, but that's offtopic. Actions and words differ, do you know that? Plus, andrew marr does not run Britain. Britain is run by forces very different to andrew marr... Mon 31 May 2010 22:24:27 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=71#comment86 BiiBoidshateu #86.you quote Andrew Marr as saying "..racism is natural.."all that tells me is that people like Marr, who were indoctrinated with Christian beliefs ("..my Presbyterian background.."), have absorbed the 'teachings' real well.LOL indeed. Mon 31 May 2010 20:11:29 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=70#comment85 So,the stunnedsilence thinks the British establishment are against immigration?LOLLet`s have a look at what that epitome of BBC/establishment-ishness Andrew Marr had to say a few years ago:http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/feb/28/lawrence.ukcrime4"They don't care. The collective breast-beating - I originally mistyped it 'beast-beating', which is maybe better - from Tony Blair, Jack Straw, the Guardian, The Observer, the Independent, Channel 4 News, Newsnight, and yes, Sir Paul Condon and his well-schooled spokesmen will change not a single mind in the relevant parts of south-east London, or anywhere else.Why not? Because: 'It's all right for you,' say the white underclass. And it is all right for us - very much so.""The establishment would like to see racism as something perverse, a kind of unreasonable wickedness that appears in badly-educated people. But this painless, convenient explanation can only come from people who don't really bother to look at, or listen to, their fellow citizens. In fact, racism is natural and at its worst wherever there is serious poverty.""It's nasty and it's natural which is why I am, on the whole, against too much nature. 'Natural harmony', accurately investigated, means a bloody and unstable cycle of massacre and extermination. Though human experience happens inside nature, human progress also depends on surmounting it. The tools by which we do so include politics and taxation, as well as science and art. But it needs a whole nation to move, not simply pious exasperation directed at the lower orders. I think the silent, sullen 'complete ignoral' which greets establishment outrage about the Lawrence case is caused by too much 'natural instinct' on the part of impoverished, retreating communities, and too little political and economic sacrifice by the middle classes and the establishment itself.""What then can be done? (Apart, of course, from widespread and vigorous miscegenation, which is the best answer, but perhaps tricky to arrange as public policy.)""And the final answer, frankly, is the vigorous use of state power to coerce and repress. It may be my Presbyterian background, but I firmly believe that repression can be a great, civilising instrument for good. Stamp hard on certain 'natural' beliefs for long enough and you can almost kill them off. The police are first in line to be burdened further, but a new Race Relations Act will impose the will of the state on millions of other lives too." Mon 31 May 2010 18:49:54 GMT+1 Stunned_Silence http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=70#comment84 'If an African country was being intentionally flooded with millions of non-blacks you`d be screaming bloody murder quick enough.'wrong, simply wrongxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSo,you`ve got no problem with for example,the Chinese flooding Tibet with Chinese colonists in an attempt to take over the country(permanently)?'I can't say that I have a problem with that, no. The problem with Tibet isn't the people being brought in, it's the fact that the Tibetans themselves are being heavily discriminated against and their religious leader is exiled. To pretend that anything like what's happening with Tibetans in Tibet is happening to white people here is frankly ludicrous, and some more scaremongering on your part.Besides, no one's being 'brought in' to the UK like they are brought in to Tibet. Quite the opposite. As I've said already the last government fought tooth and nail to restrict immigration, and would do it more if they could, but they cannot go against the will of the people... Mon 31 May 2010 13:46:45 GMT+1 Stunned_Silence http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=69#comment83 '"Whites form 92% of population"Yes,and the government`s tractor production figures are really reliable 0.1% of the time.'it's not just government statistics that say this.'In London half of the births are to foreign-born immigrant mothers,still who cares right?'foreign does not mean non-white.'"There are plenty of countries where white people are in a minority and live happy and safe lives"Like S.Africa and Zimbabwe?'SA and Zimbabwe are places in which white people oppressed the indigenous population for decades (if not centuries). They are not good examples to give.'"Scaremongering again"Invasion/genocide justifying again.'there is no invasion or genocide. You made those up. Your definition for both 'invasion' and 'genocide' is wrong, what you've done is taken the UN definition and pretended that it means what you want it to mean. But it blatantly does not.'"where exactly are they disenfranchised?"Even the achingly multi-cultural BBC admitted it in their "White" season last year.'they are wrong then. White people run the show in this country. The whole mutlikulti thing is just a front to disguise that basic fact. Walk around in the most rich and prosperous areas of the country... you will hardly see a non-white face.'"In a nutshell, you want to commit real genocide"'I do believe in repatriation of the establishment-sponsored colonists(the British establishment had no authority to give our country away)'Do the British people not have a right to decide who comes and lives here? Most people would want the freedom of marrying any person they chose, no matter where they come from, so I think that's conclusive.Or do you just think that you are right and everyone else is an idiot? Get off your high horse.'but I would`nt want to flood their countries with foreigners like you leftists advocate for us Whites,'I don't advocate anything, except freedom. 'or kill them outright as is happening as we speak in S.Africa and Zimbabwe which you leftists are very,very quiet about.'that's what hitler said 'oh yeah, we will transport slavs/jews/gypsies, we won't kill them'. Sure. Mon 31 May 2010 13:40:15 GMT+1 Nina Szombately http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=68#comment82 This post has been Removed Mon 31 May 2010 13:38:36 GMT+1 HoggyatEastlands http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=67#comment81 Can we now do something to encourage those greedy, alcohol and drug dependent selfish lazy good for nothing Brits to emigrate? Mon 31 May 2010 13:31:27 GMT+1 John http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=66#comment80 The Poles and other Eastern Europeans helped this country in WWII. We all share the same cultural background and I do not see much of a problem with them. What I do take exception to is the great influx from countries that do not, and which change the face of some of our neighborhoods into something quite alien. You could try reciprocation, could we go and set up shop in their country? No way? Well sorry you cannot come here either. Lets have a level playing field on that score too just for starters! Mon 31 May 2010 12:44:51 GMT+1 ry29tn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=65#comment79 This blog is confusing. Mark says that "those from outside the EU are generally more qualified than the average British worker", but the article is about immigration from INSIDE the EU. He doesn't tell us about the educational level of the immigrants from new EU member countries. And he mentions Albania, which is of course outside the EU, and whose citizens do not have any right of residence in the UK.What we need to know about immigrants from inside the EU is whether they are putting down roots, in particular by having children here or bringing their children here. That would be a sign of a permanent increase in the UK population, with implications for infrastructure housing the NHS and social security.There are no major cultural differences with EU immigrants (unless they are Rom gypsies), and few integration problems. But there is a big population and infrastructure issue in a small overcrowded island.Probably some will go back because of the recession, but others will stay and base their families here permanently. There will be some permanent population increase. Mon 31 May 2010 09:58:32 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=65#comment78 72. At 12:03pm on 30 May 2010, Stunned_Silence wrote:'If an African country was being intentionally flooded with millions of non-blacks you`d be screaming bloody murder quick enough.'wrong, simply wrongxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSo,you`ve got no problem with for example,the Chinese flooding Tibet with Chinese colonists in an attempt to take over the country(permanently)? Mon 31 May 2010 00:08:16 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=64#comment77 77. At 9:39pm on 30 May 2010, Stunned_Silence wrote:"Whites form 92% of population"Yes,and the government`s tractor production figures are really reliable 0.1% of the time.In London half of the births are to foreign-born immigrant mothers,still who cares right?"There are plenty of countries where white people are in a minority and live happy and safe lives"Like S.Africa and Zimbabwe?"Scaremongering again"Invasion/genocide justifying again."where exactly are they disenfranchised?"Even the achingly multi-cultural BBC admitted it in their "White" season last year."In a nutshell, you want to commit real genocide"I do believe in repatriation of the establishment-sponsored colonists(the British establishment had no authority to give our country away),but I would`nt want to flood their countries with foreigners like you leftists advocate for us Whites,or kill them outright as is happening as we speak in S.Africa and Zimbabwe which you leftists are very,very quiet about. Sun 30 May 2010 23:55:53 GMT+1 Stunned_Silence http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=63#comment76 'I don't see any white people being physically destroyed.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxBut you do see them becoming a dwindling minority in their own homelands.'92% of the country is white, all the power is in the white hands. To suggest there is a problem that merits taking away our freedoms is like saying that we should stop flying because someone might blow up an aircraft. Scaremongering.'According to you,if Whites end up in a S.African situation where they are massively outnumbered that is nothing to be concerned about.'why should it be anything to be concerned about? There are plenty of countries where white people are in a minority and live happy and safe lives. You want to present members of other races as butchers with a hunger for our blood, or as some race of bloodsucking changelings, but anyone who knows a non-white closely knows how laughable that assertion is.'The recipe of our planned destruction is clear as day:Democratisation,disenfranchment,and then the final mopping up operation a la S.Africa and Zimbabwe.'Scaremongering again. Whites form 92% of population: where exactly are they disenfranchised? Even when whites are a minority they will still own the country, own the media that tells people how to vote, etc etc, ie will stay in power. In a nutshell, you want to commit real genocide (of anyone non-white in this country), or at least restrict people's rights, because of some spectre of far-off genocide of whites (that's not really a genocide because no one dies)? We won't _ever_ support something like that. Sun 30 May 2010 20:39:42 GMT+1 Stunned_Silence http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=62#comment75 Genocide means people get rounded up and shotxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxNo,it means the intentional targeting and attacking of a racial group in whole or in part which leads to their physical non-existence on this planet.'(i) there is no intent. The mixing is driven by people. People who exercise their freedom to set up family with those of different race. (ii) 'Attack' means you attack someone physically. To allow people to mix isn't 'attack', it's 'freedom'. genocide is commonly used to denote killing of people. Or at least stopping them from reproducing. Allowing people to mix is not genocide, it's just progress. It's like calling female empowerement 'genocide' because those women will have less children. Well, yes, true, but female empowerement is very much NOT genocide. And neither is mixing.'White people make up something like 7% of the world population but nevertheless,we have the situation of:Africa for the Africans,Asia for the Asians,White countries for EVERYBODY.'all countries are for everybody in reality. That's what it's moving towards. It's just we are in the vanguard of change. But this change will happen all over the world. Sun 30 May 2010 20:32:22 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=61#comment74 73. At 12:06pm on 30 May 2010, Stunned_Silence wrote:I don't see any white people being physically destroyed.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxBut you do see them becoming a dwindling minority in their own homelands.According to you,if Whites end up in a S.African situation where they are massively outnumbered that is nothing to be concerned about.The recipe of our planned destruction is clear as day:Democratisation,disenfranchment,and then the final mopping up operation a la S.Africa and Zimbabwe. Sun 30 May 2010 12:56:59 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=60#comment73 72. At 12:03pm on 30 May 2010, Stunned_Silence wrote:Genocide means people get rounded up and shotxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxNo,it means the intentional targeting and attacking of a racial group in whole or in part which leads to their physical non-existence on this planet.White people make up something like 7% of the world population but nevertheless,we have the situation of:Africa for the Africans,Asia for the Asians,White countries for EVERYBODY. Sun 30 May 2010 12:49:19 GMT+1 Stunned_Silence http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=60#comment72 'Physical destruction means just what it says,the physical destruction of a distinct racial group.It does not have to be done through outright murder.'if you want to use 'genocide' it has to be. 'Physical destruction' means you destroy something physically. I don't see any white people being physically destroyed.'"It's white people's fault that they don't have enough children"Justifying a bloodless genocide.'what lovely oxymorons you use - 'bloodless genocide'. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?You want to attack people's freedoms because of some non-existent 'genocide' and because white people are too lazy/affluent to have children? Well, it won't work, we won't stand for it. Sun 30 May 2010 11:06:10 GMT+1 Stunned_Silence http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=59#comment71 'If an African country was being intentionally flooded with millions of non-blacks you`d be screaming bloody murder quick enough.'wrong, simply wrong. Eg we all supported the rights of Indians in Uganda when Idi Amin, obviously trying to copy your lot, kicked them out.'Socialism will give every young family a house and an affordable living at the expense of the super-rich.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxNot if you`re welcoming millions of "New Britons" every decade you won`t.'there's plenty (resources/space) for everyone, it's just wrongly distributed. Too few people at the top have a too large fraction of the wealth.'So where's the genocide?xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxRight in front of your face:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1563191/UK-cities-to-have-white-minorities-in-30-years.html'wrong. Genocide means people get rounded up and shot. You've stolen the word 'genocide' from where it belongs (to mean large-scale murder) and used it in your own aims. Pretty disgusting really.'That`s it,totally ignore the issue all you want.People like you and Easton ARE responsible for the ethnic-cleansing of Whites in White countries.You are apologists for the attempted genocide.'again crying wolf are we? Where do you see ethnic cleansing? Who gets shot?demographics changed in the world throughout history. Through both mixing and migration. They keep changing now. There is (i) no organised intent behind it, the change is people-driven and (ii) no violence/trampling of people's rights behind it. Sun 30 May 2010 11:03:13 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=58#comment70 #69 correction.missed out the quoation marks around the paragraph "The most obvious comparison is this: ..." which was written by maryw (#64). Sun 30 May 2010 08:44:32 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=57#comment69 BiiBoidshateu #66.look, I've read your #41 and can see that you're frustrated and feel cheated, but get real.first, "..ethnic-cleansing of Whites in White countries."Detroit is in the US of A, where 'whites' migrated to and where the indigenous peoples -- who weren't "white" -- were disposessed and killed by the settlers.second, educate yourself a little; I'd recommend you and the missus watch Michael Moore's "Capitalism: A Love Affair" which at some point shows Flint (in Michigan), Moore's home town, and it does look as devastated as Detroit though its history is totally different. (and yes, Moore's film shouldn't be taken as gospel but it does pack a lot of good background information) Sun 30 May 2010 08:30:43 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=56#comment68 maryw #64."Would you accept the validity that England, in comparison to relevant "peers", (large scale industrialised democracies) is the third most densely populated country? (And rising)."simply complicates things.if we use England, rather than the UK, we cannot make meaningful comparison to, say, Germany; we'd have to talk about Lower Saxony or Bavaria instead."This is a blog about immigration levels and presumably its effect on the economy and national cultural psyche. (Not to mention environmental effects). It is not a blog about bank bail outs."how can one debate "immigration levels and .. its effect on the economy" w/out being 'allowed' to talk about high-impact economic policies such as the bailing out of the financial sector?The most obvious comparison is this: The average size of an Australian house is twice the size of one in the UK, for the same price. In other words, a worker in the UK busting his gut to pay for a mortgage on his house would be given his next door neighbours house for free as well, if he simply moved to Australia.we do not have to go as far afield as Australia to find comparisons for size:New houses being built in Ireland and the UK are among the smallest in the Developed World even though there is no shortage of land.The average size of a new room in British house is .. almost half the size of those in France.or availability:A 10% increase or 2.5m extra homes are needed to push the UK housing stock to the average levels in Germany, France and Italy"I reiterate my point: If the UK has "new world" immigration levels, it needs to have new world economic growth rates."to generate growth you'll have to have more though than an economy revolving around finance. successive goverments in the UK have let the primary and secondary sectors decline and concentrated on growing a tertiary sector economy -- and now we reap the benefits (well, some 90% of us don't). Sun 30 May 2010 08:20:36 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=55#comment67 62. At 01:06am on 30 May 2010, Stunned_Silence wrote:Socialism will give every young family a house and an affordable living at the expense of the super-rich.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxNot if you`re welcoming millions of "New Britons" every decade you won`t. Sun 30 May 2010 04:38:11 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=55#comment66 61. At 00:51am on 30 May 2010, Stunned_Silence wrote:So where's the genocide?xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxRight in front of your face:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1563191/UK-cities-to-have-white-minorities-in-30-years.html Sun 30 May 2010 04:21:25 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=54#comment65 63. At 01:30am on 30 May 2010, jr4412 wrote:BiiBoidshateu #60."Just look what .. do-gooders(Like the BBC`s Mark Easton) have done to places like Detroit"wow, Mark Easton is responsible for all that? he must be a powerful Don and I, for one, shall try not to cross him. ;)xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxThat`s it,totally ignore the issue all you want.People like you and Easton ARE responsible for the ethnic-cleansing of Whites in White countries.You are apologists for the attempted genocide. Sun 30 May 2010 04:08:50 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=53#comment64 I see the leftists have a problem with simple mathematics.If an African country was being intentionally flooded with millions of non-blacks you`d be screaming bloody murder quick enough.Physical destruction means just what it says,the physical destruction of a distinct racial group.It does not have to be done through outright murder."It's white people's fault that they don't have enough children"Justifying a bloodless genocide. Sun 30 May 2010 04:05:02 GMT+1 maryw http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=52#comment63 re:52. At 1:23pm on 29 May 2010, jr4412Would you accept the validity that England, in comparison to relevant "peers", (large scale industrialised democracies) is the third most densely populated country? (And rising).This is a blog about immigration levels and presumably its effect on the economy and national cultural psyche. (Not to mention environmental effects). It is not a blog about bank bail outs. The UK, culturally and economically, developed in the industrialised era as a settler/coloniser of North America and Australasia. i.e an over-crowded country which exports people. The culture and economies of North America and Australasia have overt and de facto government population policies to increase the population. For instance, in Australia, there is widespread acceptance that the current population of 21 million will rise by many millions over the next few decades due to immigration. Except in the immediate post war era, at no time has a UK government had an overt population growth policy through immigration. When did the Blair/Brown governments ever tell the population that: "It is our policy that many more millions of people should live here than presently do because.....".The most obvious comparison is this: The average size of an Australian house is twice the size of one in the UK, for the same price. In other words, a worker in the UK busting his gut to pay for a mortgage on his house would be given his next door neighbours house for free as well, if he simply moved to Australia.I reiterate my point: If the UK has "new world" immigration levels, it needs to have new world economic growth rates. Australia has the best performing economy in the developed world and hasn't had a recession for nearly twenty years. If the UK uses the Australian immigration points system for example, it will end up with a population of 70 million, relying on an extremely mediocre economy with a gargantuan public sector. Sun 30 May 2010 02:52:54 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=51#comment62 BiiBoidshateu #60."Just look what .. do-gooders(Like the BBC`s Mark Easton) have done to places like Detroit"wow, Mark Easton is responsible for all that? he must be a powerful Don and I, for one, shall try not to cross him. ;) Sun 30 May 2010 00:30:37 GMT+1 Stunned_Silence http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=50#comment61 '"More outrageously still the previous government massively increased the numbers of foreigners being granted British citizenship to more than 200,000, a rise of 58 per cent.THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF NEW BRITONS CAME NOT FROM EUROPEAN MEMBER STATES BUT FROM THE THIRD WORLD."'Labour has tightened the immigration criteria A LOT. There were 8 separate pieces of legislation that clamped down on immigration and made immigrants' life hell. 'Because every year we take in more and more foreigners(am I allowed to say that word moderator-please don`t ban me!!!!!!!!!!!!!),which in of itself increases emigration of fed up White Brits,increases pressure on scant resources leading to a falling birthrate for Whites as they find that their living conditions get worse and worse while the British establishment and it`s leftist cheerleaders smile happily over the whole show.'great, so how do you go about lessening immigration without attacking people's freedoms?-do you stop people being able to marry foreigners (that would be REALLY popular)?-do you stop businesses employing foreigners (won't ever work)?or what do you suggest? The problem is that if you make the immigration criteria harsher you attack the liberties of your already existing citizens.'I.E They`ll lose their countries as well to establishment-invited foreign colonists.'the Establishment are doing their damnedest to keep foreigners out. But they know that the people won't stand for loss of freedoms associated with a total stopping of naturalisation, so they can't do this as well as they would hope to.'I know for a fact that if myself and my girlfriend had better paying jobs and access to affordable family housing we would be starting a family right now instead of scraping through a miserable pauper`s existence unable to save any money not knowing if next month we`ll be on the dole.But maybe we`re not representative eh?'well, then join the Socialists. Socialism will give every young family a house and an affordable living at the expense of the super-rich. Sun 30 May 2010 00:06:55 GMT+1 Stunned_Silence http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=50#comment60 RE: the allegations of genocide against the British establishment (post 44) against the white people'(a) Killing members of the group;'NOT GUILTY'(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;'NOT GUILTY'(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;'NOT GUILTY. 'Physical destruction' means you go and kill them, there's only one way to interpret that.'(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;'definately NOT GUILTY. It's white people's fault that they don't have enough children.'(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."do you mean the adoption system? But it works both ways, and the scale is tiny...So where's the genocide? Sat 29 May 2010 23:51:00 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=49#comment59 Just look what the "anti-racist"(anti-Whites)"liberal"(Marxist) do-gooders(Like the BBC`s Mark Easton) have done to places like Detroit:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwTumsb5UMA Sat 29 May 2010 21:57:43 GMT+1 away_2return_2uk http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=48#comment58 Unfortunately, immigration is like adoption.It seems to me, that a proportion of commentators, feel the need to be against immigration, due to dogma or prejudice, instead of need. In the UK we have a high proportion of what is termed by some as "an underclass" who receive all benefits regardless, meanwhile those who come here to work are stigmatised, despite contribution.in the same way as those who may seek to adopt have to jump through hoops to be considered, whilst the same "underclass" can breed like rabbits.something may be wrong in the UK, but the arrival of the EU 8 members is a symptom of another issue, not a cause, of mass unemployment or disenfranchisement. there is a perception that having 50% of young people going to university is a positive - when we do not have strategy related to what jobs or functions they may peform - the UK employs other countries graduates because they accept the conditions and have the training to do the job - whereas we produce graduates who have increased expectations, and do not see a lower position as suitable, or why they went to university!The law of unintended consequences will last for the rest of this generation. Sat 29 May 2010 20:50:35 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=47#comment57 GeoffWard #55."Thought you were getting altogether too uptight."happenz, must have been all these rabid reactionaries snapping at my liberal heels. Sat 29 May 2010 20:24:47 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=46#comment56 56. At 5:23pm on 29 May 2010, jakking wrote:If we can hold down the racist bigots for a short time, I am sure the same thing will happen with the Europeans.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxI.E They`ll lose their countries as well to establishment-invited foreign colonists.So you`re another anti-White bloodless genocide supporter then(see my post44 to see the internationally agreed definition of genocide). Sat 29 May 2010 18:22:35 GMT+1 jakking http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=45#comment55 I am reminded vividly of the situation in London and elsewhere in the postwar period when vast numbers of West Indians came over and were willing to take on low-paying hospital and transportation jobs. We know there were a few problems with racists for a while, but that soon passed and they are now a vital and dynamic part of modern Britain. If we can hold down the racist bigots for a short time, I am sure the same thing will happen with the Europeans. Sat 29 May 2010 16:23:22 GMT+1 GeoffWard http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=45#comment54 Re #54,Ah, good. A bit of lightening-up, jr44112. Thought you were getting altogether too uptight.Geoff. Sat 29 May 2010 13:06:11 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=44#comment53 GeoffWard #49.agree.let's hope the numbers divide evenly, lest we have to bring back 'drawing and quartering'. Sat 29 May 2010 12:34:09 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=43#comment52 thomas #48."We have enough criminality in this country already without importing it."surely, you meant to say exporting?..the problem of British citizens who had been convicted of offences abroad.. Sat 29 May 2010 12:31:00 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=42#comment51 maryw #47."England is the 5th most densely populated country in the world and rising up the chart."according to 'The Telegraph' list, Singapore, Bahrain, Barbados, Lebanon, etc, aren't countries. curious, but it does help to promote England up in the list. :-)"Did the population agree to this?"did any of the other countries populations "agree"? pray tell."Was this planned?"unplanned more like, given that the UK ranks joint top in the list of teenage pregnancies.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1123322/"Why do we have US style immigration without US economic growth rates?"do you really want this 'growth' rate in the UK?"It is obvious to anyone with a modicum of understanding of economics that the UK's public sector is too large a burden on tax payers to support large scale immigration without substantial economic growth."had you a 'modicum of understanding of economics' you'd appreciate that (a) all employment is preferable to unemployment, even if some of it is in the public sector, and (b) taxpayers are unnecessarily burdened by concessions and hand-outs to the private sector (like the bailout of the banking sector, for instance)."In the current economic climate there is no justification for a single unskilled worker, or his wife, son, daughter, mother, third cousin twice removed etc being allowed entry from outside the EU."I think you forgot to mention grand- and great-grandparents, both sides of the family. :-)seiously, I wish you had read the last paragraph of my #15."Tinkering with skilled worker numbers is an irrelevance."what are you referring to? Sat 29 May 2010 12:23:33 GMT+1 GeoffWard http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=41#comment50 The trouble is, both my boys have been displace in the English workforce by Poles. They can Get On Their Bike and try elsewhere - like Latvia, but should they have to? Sat 29 May 2010 12:19:39 GMT+1 GeoffWard http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=40#comment49 OK also, some ex-Empire & Commonwealth countries have small numbers of people and some have lots. The rest of the world outside the EU also has lots.Lots of these people, for some reason or other, want to come to the UK - from all over the place. And we know we can get everybody on the Isle of Wight at once, if they don't mind being very good friends.Many years ago my little boy asked me "Daddy, how do we know when enough is enough?". Today, all grown up, he tells me in no uncertain terms - "Dad, for God's sake, enough is enough!". Sat 29 May 2010 12:15:52 GMT+1 GeoffWard http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=40#comment48 47. At 12:19pm on 29 May 2010, maryw wrote:# 19. JR44112 "yet, the UK is only the 51st most densely populated, go figure"."England is the 5th most densely populated country in the world and rising up the chart. Did the population agree to this? Was this planned? Was this official government policy?.....".........OK, I get it - England takes a disproportionate influx of immigrants (etc). Luckily, once the incomers are within the UK, the Government has the right (duty?) to distribute these extra millions as it sees fit. I think it might be about time to distribute them proportionately to the size of the landmass available in each country of the GB & NI. Then each country can benefit equally.Only in the interests of fairness and equity, JR44112. Lol. Sat 29 May 2010 12:05:25 GMT+1 thomas http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=39#comment47 Immigration figures from Eastern Europe show an overall reduction in numbers. So what?My concern is of the thousands who are here and not living by our laws. While the large majority are no doubt hard working men and women we are also facing a massive crime wave as a direct result of immigration.Incidents of children used as sex slaves, credit card fraud, crimes of theft, motoring infringements the list goes on and on. The criminal element are neither needed nor welcome here and whether it is exenophobic or not I would prefer that the law breakers amongst immigrants were returned whence they came.We have enough criminality in this country already without importing it. Sat 29 May 2010 11:28:44 GMT+1 maryw http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=38#comment46 # 19. JR44112 "yet, the UK is only the 51st most densely populated, go figure".England is the 5th most densely populated country in the world and rising up the chart. Did the population agree to this? Was this planned? Was this official government policy? Why do we have US style immigration without US economic growth rates? It is obvious to anyone with a modicum of understanding of economics that the UK's public sector is too large a burden on tax payers to support large scale immigration without substantial economic growth. In the current economic climate there is no justification for a single unskilled worker, or his wife, son, daughter, mother, third cousin twice removed etc being allowed entry from outside the EU. Tinkering with skilled worker numbers is an irrelevance. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/6413308/The-worlds-most-densely-populated-countries.html Sat 29 May 2010 11:19:43 GMT+1 Lenispal http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=37#comment45 Good to see immigration being discussed. How did this article get past the HYS moderators? Sat 29 May 2010 11:09:38 GMT+1 Daisy Chained http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=36#comment44 I fail to see how micro-analysing the roots of migrants actually helps anyone. People who wish to be British should be welcome from wherever they originally came; the argument, surely, is about those who use the UK as a convenience, and, in fairness, must include those for whom we are and have been a tax haven.The more enlightened may consider that it is not migrants who necessarily cause our ills but governments who habitually fail to introduce policy changes that would alleviate much of the scapegoat style rhetoric that is smeared across our tabloids.Building houses, affordable houses, changing rental laws, inhibiting buy to let deals, controlling rents, controlling second (and subsequent) home purchases through strong financial penalties, giving tenants strong rights to buy or part purchase their rentals, and so on would be good places to start. The more enlightened economists would also observe that all these policy commitments would have prevented or at least ameliorated the hot air "boom and bust" of the noughties.We do not need a return to scapegoat riots to correct the sins of immigration ignorance. We just need someone in government who really knows what "fair is fair" actually means. Sat 29 May 2010 06:35:05 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=35#comment43 "Law: Genocide Article 2 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide from 1948 defines genocide as any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such: (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."The British establishment are guilty as charged. Fri 28 May 2010 23:40:10 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=35#comment42 #42 cont'd.hint ('on the house'):Divide And Rule. Fri 28 May 2010 23:14:18 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=34#comment41 BiiBoidshateu #41.""affluence" .. a proxy for astronomical house prices,scarce jobs and terrible job security..""But maybe we`re not representative eh?"representative? yes.represented? no.ask yourself WHY. Fri 28 May 2010 22:32:11 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=33#comment40 36. At 10:53pm on 28 May 2010, jr4412 wrote:essentially, most sources agree that affluence causes declining birth rates.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxYes,this "affluence" "yardstick" might also be a proxy for astronomical house prices,scarce jobs and terrible job security,no?I know for a fact that if myself and my girlfriend had better paying jobs and access to affordable family housing we would be starting a family right now instead of scraping through a miserable pauper`s existence unable to save any money not knowing if next month we`ll be on the dole.But maybe we`re not representative eh? Fri 28 May 2010 22:14:01 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=32#comment39 BiiBoidshateu #39."War on your own kindred.How evil can you get?"quite.in 2008 our governments spent $1464bn on the means for killing and maiming humans.http://www.sipri.org/ Fri 28 May 2010 22:13:05 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=31#comment38 37. At 10:56pm on 28 May 2010, jr4412 wrote:sounds an awful lot like humans to me.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxYes,the British establishment and their leftist cheerleaders are waging a dirty war on the White British.War on your own kindred.How evil can you get? Fri 28 May 2010 22:02:42 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=30#comment37 BiiBoidshateu #34."They are MY people and I feel not a shred of hostility to them.."implies that you feel hostility towards people from outside England.I'm rather glad not to know you. Fri 28 May 2010 21:59:38 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=30#comment36 BiiBoidshateu #35."..they [ants] wage brutal war on other ant colonies all for the sake of "the group" genetic destiny."sounds an awful lot like humans to me. Fri 28 May 2010 21:56:54 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=29#comment35 BiiBoidshateu #32."Because every year we take in more and more foreigners..,which in of itself increases emigration of fed up White Brits,increases pressure on scant resources leading to a falling birthrate for Whites.."this sounds like propaganda, the sort the BNP might spread.luckily, there's real information on this issue too:The reasons behind declining birth-rates are a combination of social, cultural and economic factors.Japan is particularly interesting because there are comparatively few 'gajin' resident:Q3: What do you think is the cause of the birth rate falling?essentially, most sources agree that affluence causes declining birth rates. Fri 28 May 2010 21:53:55 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=28#comment34 33. At 10:32pm on 28 May 2010, jr4412 wrote:they've done pretty well without borders. :-)xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxThey are a lower form of life(my whole point-durrrhhh!),and they wage brutal war on other ant colonies all for the sake of "the group" genetic destiny. Fri 28 May 2010 21:45:43 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=27#comment33 31. At 10:18pm on 28 May 2010, jr4412 wrote:ell that to a Geordie, or a Brummie, or a Scouse -- they're all English -- second!!xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxI come from Hampshire and I know a few Northeners that have come down to the ENGLISH riviera(lol).They are MY people and I feel not a shred of hostility to them coming down here and taking the odd job off of us Hampshire folk.I`m sure the feeling is mutual.We have something important in common you see. Fri 28 May 2010 21:38:42 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=26#comment32 "A border is de facto a discriminatory device.Anything else is merely a human ant colony."ants are successful, they're survivors.Wikipedia states that they "have colonised almost every landmass on Earth" and have been around for "about 110 to 130 million years".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antthey've done pretty well without borders. :-) Fri 28 May 2010 21:32:44 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=25#comment31 29. At 9:49pm on 28 May 2010, Buck_Turgidson wrote:Essentially you are justifying a bloodless genocide of the White British(am I allowed to say that moderator?-please don`t ban me!!!!!!!)then.Because every year we take in more and more foreigners(am I allowed to say that word moderator-please don`t ban me!!!!!!!!!!!!!),which in of itself increases emigration of fed up White Brits,increases pressure on scant resources leading to a falling birthrate for Whites as they find that their living conditions get worse and worse while the British establishment and it`s leftist cheerleaders smile happily over the whole show. Fri 28 May 2010 21:19:59 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=25#comment30 BiiBoidshateu #30."A border is de facto a discriminatory device.Anything else is merely a human ant colony.A teeming mass of rootless strangers with no ties.."tell that to a Geordie, or a Brummie, or a Scouse -- they're all English -- second!! Fri 28 May 2010 21:18:37 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=24#comment29 28. At 9:13pm on 28 May 2010, laughingjkings wrote:Funny that no-one seems to mention the 1+ million Brits who live elsewhere in the EU...hypocrisy is a terrible thing....xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxWhat about the 59-61-76 million (depending on who you talk to- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/city-eye-facts-on-a-plate-our-population-is-at-least-77-million-395428.html )Brits left behind unable or unwilling to flee to foreign shores?Nations are nations for a reason.A border is de facto a discriminatory device.Anything else is merely a human ant colony.A teeming mass of rootless strangers with no ties save the ethereal concept of "The Brotherhood Of Mankind" and also(conveniently) a ruthless tyranny of "managers" to oversee and exploit the chaos.Which of course,is the globalist`s and the left`s sad and deluded fantasy. Fri 28 May 2010 21:03:50 GMT+1 Buck_Turgidson http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=23#comment28 @ BiiBoidshateuAsylum seeker: A person who has left their country of origin and formally applied for asylum in another country but whose application has not yet been concluded.Refused asylum seeker: A person whose asylum application has been unsuccessful and who has no other claim for protection awaiting a decision. Some refused asylum seekers voluntarily return home, others are forcibly returned and for some it is not safe or practical for them to return until conditions in their country change.Illegal immigrant: Someone whose entry into or presence in a country contravenes immigration laws.Economic migrant: Someone who has moved to another country to work. Refugees are not economic migrants.I think you may find that the Native American tribes/nations or whatever else you want to call them had been living in Northern America for quite a long time by the 1600s and while they may not have established what we regard as countries they certainly had advanced societies that were occupying what we now regard as America and Canada.Just as the Australian Aboriginal and New Zealand's Maori nations had done in their respective homelands.These areas weren't empty landscapes just waiting to be populated, millions of people were living there and had been living there for thousands of years until many of them were wiped out through new diseases, war with the colonialists and ethnic cleansing. Most of the ones who survived then had an often much restricted existence as slaves or kept on reservations and other similar arrangements.You may also find that we had one of the largest navel fleets ever assembled not to mention a very respectable army who were looking over those places where we only had a tiny administrative presence, just to make sure those pesky Asians, Chinese, Persians and Africans didn't get any funny ideas about who should enjoy the profits of their labour or who should be able to decide who got to do business there.A selective view of history and confusion of two different groups; economic migrants and refugees, seems to be getting you rather upset. I'd recommend you go take a holiday, try somewhere in Asia or Africa and take a look at how most other people in the world live and I guarantee you'll feel so much better about how good we have it in the UK. You may also realise that the tabloids blow issues like this out of all proportion because it is a useful way of keeping lots of people annoyed enough to miss the fact that they have just been the victims of the biggest ever financial scam the world has ever seen and that there are people within our own country who are a far bigger threat to our health, wealth and happiness than all immigrants combined ever will be.As laughingjkings has pointed out, millions of British people also live abroad:* Over the course of 40 years, some 67,500 more Britons have left the UK every year than have returned.* 41 nations each have at least 10,000 permanent British residents.* There are 5.5 million expat Britons - a number that rises to six million if those who live or work part of the year abroad are included. Taken together, they represent approximately 10% of British citizens.Most of the problems we have experienced as a result of recent immigration has in almost every case been due to poor planning by the government and a general unwillingness to deal with the issue because every time anyone tries people start shouting and screaming and far too many people seem to prefer to ignore the facts in favour of populist rhetoric and outright lies. Fri 28 May 2010 20:49:00 GMT+1 laughingjkings http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=22#comment27 Funny that no-one seems to mention the 1+ million Brits who live elsewhere in the EU...hypocrisy is a terrible thing.... Fri 28 May 2010 20:13:30 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=21#comment26 Buck_Turgidson #24.re. BiiBoidshateu #26."refugees" become an "immigration invasion". LOLthere's no point arguing against such a 'pick-and-mix' approach to reality. Fri 28 May 2010 19:21:20 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=20#comment25 24. At 7:32pm on 28 May 2010, Buck_Turgidson wrote:"as well as being a signatory of the 1951 UN Refugee Convention"Ah,ha.The convention which states that "refugees"(funny how it makes zero mention of "economic migrants" or "colonists" eh?) must first seek sanctuary in the nearest country to the one they`re fleeing from.Which rather shoots down your attempt to use that 1951 convention as justification for the immigration invasion into this land,no? Fri 28 May 2010 19:01:05 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=20#comment24 24. At 7:32pm on 28 May 2010, Buck_Turgidson wrote: Mainly uninhabited lands ?What are you talking about ?The British Empire colonised some of the most populous parts of the planet and by the 1920s a quarter of the worlds people were living under British dominion.And where were all of those uninhabited lands, the parts of Africa the British colonised were already populated before we arrived, as were the parts of Asia, Middle East, Australia, New Zealand and the Americas. The British Empire may have helped to depopulate vast areas of the land it had colonised or stolen from other colonialists but there were very few places not already inhabited by the time Europeans started their Empire building.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxI was thinking of 17th cent America and Canada,18-19th cent Australia and New Zealand,as the main areas of colonisation by the British.Everywhere else we went we had only a tiny administrative presence.These countries did`nt even exist as entities before we went there.BUT THIS IS TOTALLY BESIDE THE POINT because it happened long before any of us were born,and so the 21st century British population have no obligation whatsoever to give away our country just because our ancestors went out to the four corners of the world.Surely (as good little "moralists" like the left pretend to be) we don`t punish the son for the sins of the Father? Fri 28 May 2010 18:52:58 GMT+1 Buck_Turgidson http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=19#comment23 BiiBoidshateu wrote:Right,so because "we"(over more than a century ago!)set up an empire and colonised mainly uninhabited lands,we are duty bound to accept the entire world`s "refugees" on this crowded island?Mainly uninhabited lands ?What are you talking about ?The British Empire colonised some of the most populous parts of the planet and by the 1920s a quarter of the worlds people were living under British dominion.And where were all of those uninhabited lands, the parts of Africa the British colonised were already populated before we arrived, as were the parts of Asia, Middle East, Australia, New Zealand and the Americas. The British Empire may have helped to depopulate vast areas of the land it had colonised or stolen from other colonialists but there were very few places not already inhabited by the time Europeans started their Empire building.And where do you get the idea we are responsible for all of the worlds refugees ?Pakistan is currently the nation with the most refugees living there and most of them are escaping from the war in Afghanistan and there are over a million Iraqi's currently in refugee camps in Syria, so in other words; the countries currently exporting the most refugees are doing so thanks to invasions our government helped start.In 2007 there were about 16 million refugees in the world, the UK was home to less than 2% of them and the whole of Europe (including the UK) was home to just 14% of them.No one, not even jr4412, is suggesting that the UK should take all of the worlds refugees but as a developed nation that has benefited greatly from the colonisation of other nations as well as being a signatory of the 1951 UN Refugee Convention we have a responsibility to accept those seeking asylum while their claim is processed.The facts about asylum:http://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/practice/basics/facts.htm#factone Fri 28 May 2010 18:32:48 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=18#comment22 This post has been Removed Fri 28 May 2010 17:28:39 GMT+1 BiiBoidshateu http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=17#comment21 This post has been Removed Fri 28 May 2010 16:49:01 GMT+1 jr4412 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/05/the_tide_has_officially_turned.html?page=16#comment20 BiiBoidshateu #18.rather than SHOUTING so embarrassingly digest the last paragraph of Will P's #12.also, 'Third World' is quite a nasty, pejorative term -- just the thing one'd expect from a 'red top' paper. Fri 28 May 2010 15:27:34 GMT+1