Comments for en-gb 30 Sat 30 Aug 2014 21:54:54 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at StrokeProneRat Killerbarbies: I would define a "real cycling fan" as someone sufficiently interested in cycling to engage in a tiresome argument with you over definitions. Hope you find one. Sat 23 Aug 2008 21:33:32 GMT+1 Killerbarbies 2 StrokeProneRat - I like your comment that "the real cycling fans" here have not heard of Anne Caroline Chausson. Please define what constitutes a "real cycling fan". Sat 23 Aug 2008 20:41:29 GMT+1 Killerbarbies The most exciting cycling sport is still not in the Olympics - Downhill. Throw out another track event and get DH included asap. Sat 23 Aug 2008 19:54:11 GMT+1 Chris Q Post 159I had not read that. She had the potential to win - I think she was ultra-focussed and could have won.She will win Olympic events some time - she looks a good bet anyway. Sat 23 Aug 2008 17:03:45 GMT+1 lwelshbloke Sadly there are only three women's events in the velodrome. The points race, the sprint and the pursuit.Her training at the moment would likely only make the sprint an option. Sat 23 Aug 2008 14:07:07 GMT+1 dannyfromthevalley Apologies if anyone else also posted similar comment as I just logged on but I read an article a few days ago which said that her coach died last year. At his funeral a video message was played telling Shanaze to win gold for him so probably also has something to do with the risk.In my view, she's extremely young to already be one of our top competitors and certainly has the passion to keep on going all the way in 2012.Q - As she has such potential in the velodrome also, should she go for that instead as she could win several medals (only 1 on offer in BMX I think) or could she even go for both (timetabling permitting)? Sat 23 Aug 2008 13:43:50 GMT+1 Chris Q Hi Eduin,I think we just have to agree to differ.I don't think she had a hope of that pass - and in racing - when possible injury or damage to another is the outcome - competitors need to trust each other. Be it motorbikes, cycling - whatever.I think her disqualification sums it up and justifies my disagreement with you.What I feel is happening is that the motivational approach which has stood the cyclists so well in other events is being used as a mask to cover up a very poor racing decision from a cyclist who has become accustomed to winning and could not contemplate losing.She did it with too much momentum, had no control of her line as a result and then used the "I am a winner" hype to pass it off.It also seems to obscure the fact she was just plain beaten - if we are honest. If she cannot stomach loss fine - but you cannot just throw yourself into any corner at any speed and dismiss it by saying "well, I wanted to win".People have also said it was a close thing - really? To me she was nowhere near pulling it off! You don't need to race BMX to see that. Just an opinion - but if I was in the french camp I would be looking for a fight if she had taken her down.Apart from anything else - look at the result - hardly glorious was it. To paraphrase an earlier reference - a big part of winning a race is finishing.And to compare with the other cyclists - they won by cycling better - and did not crash out. Sounds like I am being smug but like anyone who is convinced he is right - I am surprised people cannot just say it for what it was - a mistake. It happens. Even to hot British favourites. Sat 23 Aug 2008 12:44:46 GMT+1 EdTuBrutus "When I watched the final curve incident in slo-mo from various angles, it was clear that the Brit girl was heading upwards on the curve when the collision happened, not downwards to take the inside attack as has been widely advertised."No, the correct term is "she ran out of skill".She tried a maneuvre which is incredibly hard, holding a tight line at high speed. It is possible but unlikely. Her momentum forced her up because she didn't have the ability to control the speed on the line she wanted. It's not a deliberate take down.Regards,Eduin Sat 23 Aug 2008 10:17:09 GMT+1 EdTuBrutus "I do not want to knock Shenaze Reade - although it does sound that way, I really don't. I actually think her "risk it all" mentality hindered her and clouded her judgement - not helped. I believe it may have cost her the Gold. That is why it niggles me to hear it applauded. "No, what cost her gold were earlier mistakes but that's not what I'm commenting on.Here move at the end was *unlikely* but not impossible. Given that she does have some experience of the event, she is probably aware that, given the angle of approach, being able to get round the inside and take gold was a slim chance - its been done before and others will do it again but as I said its unlikely.That's whats meant by "gold or nothing" near enough, she has a simple choice. Stop trying, guarantee a silver medal or try and get through the inside and know that Gold is a small chance, getting by but losing speed and still getting Silver is a small chance or wiping is the most likely outcome. And I think we cna be pretty sure coming up to the corner she has enough time to work out these possibilities.In other sports and historically all British Sport, she's have stopped trying and coasting in for Silver.You talk about not taking risks, we'll posting a World Record in Team Pursuit probably increases the chance of a crash pretty markedly. But the Team Pursuit boys still went all out, full tilt till the end rather than ride inside themselves.Was that an error? I don't think so, it's just another example of why British Cycling is the best in the world. They always push for that next level.Regards,Eduin Sat 23 Aug 2008 10:15:04 GMT+1 TheExtremeNinja kevd11 #127.First part of your post is twaddle. Second part I agree with.Firstly you said BMX wasn't a Sport. Perhaps you can tell me what exactly it is then.You then said that if we are to have BMX in te olympics then why not skaetboarding and dodgeball. What a fantastic idea. I'm only 28 and see half of the sports in the olympc being the legacy of outdated tradition with a fitting home only in the past and in the memory of generations past.I'm not sure of your age, but I suggest that you hold on to your nostalgia and allow international sport to progress.The day that sport stops being progressive will never come and it would be a sad day if it did.As a comparison, think of the progressiveness of technology. If it wasn't for human endeavour to acheive new things and compete in different arenas your comments would be in an envelope with a stamp on the front in the back of a royal mail van and nobody would be reading it on this fangled website thingy. Sat 23 Aug 2008 09:12:06 GMT+1 PaulGrass When I watched the final curve incident in slo-mo from various angles, it was clear that the Brit girl was heading upwards on the curve when the collision happened, not downwards to take the inside attack as has been widely advertised. The only advantage I can imagine she could gain with such a move was to deliberately hit the French girl and hope for the best. Don't know enough of rules of BMX would this fall within acceptable racing maneouvres.Overall in my opinion is that there is no doubt of the courage of the Brit girl, but considering all mistakes she made only in the final race, she has lot to do to develop her racing brain. One part of that is to realize that when you clearly are outplayed for gold, it is no shame to aim for silver. Sat 23 Aug 2008 08:21:27 GMT+1 Chris Q EdTuBrutus quote:"No, that's just it. Shanaze Reade was NOT "Glorious Failure" she made a choice "gold or nothing", Glorious failure is some no mark runner getting 4th in a race"Hi Eduin,That is what I don't see - and this long conversation has still not changed my view.I see what you are saying as a mantra. It is a chant for people focussed on winning and it has it's place as the correct mentality for many competitors.What Shanaze did was not a result of positive mental thought. The "gold or nothing" focus does not excuse bad decisions, it does not slow down faster competitors nor excuse racing mistakes. That is the only difference we have in this.I see people saying she did the "right thing, of course". No she most certainly did not! She was beaten by a better racer on the day! She was out-ridden early, could not pass and made a very poor attempt - way too fast - on the final bend for which she could have ruined the outcome for the other leaders in the race as well as herself. She was even disqualified post race for the move. There is a difference between a positive attitude/commitment and making a mistake. She, herself, must know she blew it. But she is the only person who can go out and rectify it. I am sure she will in the future.However, what irritates me is using her words to criticise and berate other people. Those people have different outlooks, abilities and goals. I find this pseudo-excellence posturing very good rhetoric but, ultimately, meaningless. A distraction. You do not have to be a robotic, disrespectful, single-minded sado-masachist to compete and win. That is fine for some winners but not for all winners.The ultimate result is the Result. She was last, not even bronze or silver. To me that is more of a loss than simply "not being Gold". She might as well have not shown up. I find that outlook more realistic. Silver and bronze are statements that the record books will preserve. They say that another competitor, on the day, rode a better race. Live with it. Statements such as "Gold or nothing" are soundbites - the media like them for 24 hours then they are gone, forgotten.The difference with Hoy and others is that they did not make mistakes and they were better on the day.I do not want to knock Shenaze Reade - although it does sound that way, I really don't. I actually think her "risk it all" mentality hindered her and clouded her judgement - not helped. I believe it may have cost her the Gold. That is why it niggles me to hear it applauded. Sat 23 Aug 2008 06:22:28 GMT+1 EdTuBrutus "Glorious failure - what we Brits do best! "No, that's just it. Shanaze Reade was NOT "Glorious Failure" she made a choice "gold or nothing", Glorious failure is some no mark runner getting 4th in a race where people ahead of them fall over (in the BMX, the New Zealander or the Yank would be "glorious failure".It's the attitude that has led Great Britain to take 8 gold medals in 16 cycling events. Its about people being *dedicated* to winning and winning being what matters. Its an attitude that the entire sport in the UK now holds at their core and its what has led us to be the dominant nation that we are today.Let's forget about her failure to follow instruction and wipe on the first semi run. That's not what we are on about and it didn't *directly* effect the choice she made on the final berm.Reade got no medal because she decided the Gold was all that mattered. I would say that's the right attitude and the results British Cycling have gained demonstrate this is the right attitude.Regards,Eduin Sat 23 Aug 2008 01:04:04 GMT+1 NeilG42 Re: Reade's comment.In my opinion a true winner has one attitude :- "Seond place is for other people." Sat 23 Aug 2008 00:52:57 GMT+1 Black and White and Ram All Over! It was a great spectacle, i loved it. For me the womens final was the most tense and exciting moment of the Olympics so far, easily. Sat 23 Aug 2008 00:21:18 GMT+1 Baron_Daguerre #146 - yes; Please Don't Feed The TrollsAlso, I'd agree that squash should definitely be in the Olympics, and probably rugby 7's too, but not at the expense of BMX - there are a lot of sports that I'd drop before cutting BMX. Fri 22 Aug 2008 22:54:02 GMT+1 lwelshbloke Don;t forget BMX isn't a new sport - its a new discipline within cycling. Track had to give up the kilo to get BMX. Fri 22 Aug 2008 22:43:28 GMT+1 StrokeProneRat It's called "trolling" I think, isn't it? There are some odd people about. Hopefully that sort of bad behaviour will get him banned. I agree the downhill mountain biking community would recognise her, however your point raises the broader question of whether it's the size of the community which determines olympic status. BMX may be regarded as a rather controversial choice (particularly by the international sports which don't feature and would claim a larger fanbase such as, for example squash and rugby 7s) but it's clearly stimulated some discussion tonight! Fri 22 Aug 2008 22:36:36 GMT+1 lwelshbloke It is just a symptom of these sort of blogs - people try and discredit honest posters.Judging by the post itself it is I'm afraid MartinDFerry.As for Anne Chausson - the downhill mountain biking community would of course recognise her. Fri 22 Aug 2008 22:23:49 GMT+1 earthelement Chausson is an absolute LEGEND !, one of the greatest sportswomen ever, she won 9 gold medals in downhill racing, when this was the most advanced discipline in cycling, computer assisted suspension, carbon frames, the F1 of cycling. I`m not going to argue about who is the greatest ever sportswomen as that is an impossible task.With your argument about her riding with computer aided suspension etc, wouldn`t that make it easier to ride ? Surely a bike from 30 years ago would be a lot harder to ride than a technologically advanced bike? It`s just that you make it sound harder to win a race with advanced bikes which i thought would make it easier to get a quick time Fri 22 Aug 2008 22:23:40 GMT+1 StrokeProneRat l(I)welshbloke: As you're both posting under assumed names, is this the most pointless case of identity theft ever?MartinTennis: You tell us that Anne Caroline Chausson win has been a "mega-star" for "over 10 years." And yet not even the real cycling fans here have ever head of her. I'm all for encouraging minority sport but the when not even the cycling fans recognise your established mega stars, does it suggest you're not ready for Olympic status? Fri 22 Aug 2008 22:18:48 GMT+1 Baron_Daguerre Quijote at #136: I really don't think many people here, if any, disrespect the silver medals or the silver medallists. If I had an Olympic silver medal hanging on my wall I'd be very proud indeed. But I also believe that the 'second is first loser' attitude is in many cases part of what actually gets athletes to the Olympics and in contention for gold; and that many of the athletes from around the world that we've had the privilege to watch these last two weeks simply wouldn't be there if they weren't obsessed with being the winner. I mean if you're prepared to settle for silver then you'll never get the chance to settle for Olympic silver, you get to settle for second place in your local league.MartinTennis: chill out - your girl won. Fri 22 Aug 2008 21:54:34 GMT+1 lwelshbloke Now I wonder who that could be!Could I just say that is not lwelshbloke but someone trying to impersonate me by using the name Iwelshbloke - one starts with an l - one starts with and I Fri 22 Aug 2008 21:38:53 GMT+1 Iwelshbloke This post has been Removed Fri 22 Aug 2008 21:35:46 GMT+1 MartinTennis @clovisguy middle something and have clearly no idea how hard BMX is.but i think your opinion isn't even based on what u know (NOTHING) about BMX, but, it's new, so u have the prehistoric ape like reflex to dislike it.well, you are wrong, your "thought" process is wrong, and your "conclusion" (prejudice) is wrong.BMX is very intense, after 400 meters u are DEAD, it's like a sprint, no gears, small wheels, unresponsive sand, and a very bad position for speed (but a good one for jumping)it's hard physically, and technically, what else do u want ?every new sport is considered, by some idiots like u, in the same way, it's not at all about the sport itself, but about conserving, keeping the olympics as the were before.u are forgetting that the olympics have been changing every 4 years.and u are probably not talking about why shooting (not a physical sport by any means), or football (the only sport that is not represented by it's best players), or beach volley a USA (1 team in the quarters) and Brazil (3 teams in the quarters) dominate so completely that it doesn't make any sense at an international competitiion.what are the criteria for a sport to be acceptable at the Olympic games ?for you it's being old and trusted, i don't care about your opinion should be about being:international.physical, preferably not judged but measurednot random (BMX has a minus there)i think BMX was one of the highlights of these games, especially after i saw Anne Caroline Chausson win, she really deserved that, she has been a mega-star in the cross-country-downhill world for over 10 years. Fri 22 Aug 2008 21:22:22 GMT+1 MartinTennis I'm sorry, but does the author of this article even know who Anne Caroline Chausson is ?she completely deserved this victory, she was ahead in every round, but the last one when whe let Shanadze pass, on purpose (see elsewhere)Chausson is an absolute LEGEND !, one of the greatest sportswomen ever, she won 9 gold medals in downhill racing, when this was the most advanced discipline in cycling, computer assisted suspension, carbon frames, the F1 of cycling.she is a technical genius, she is over 30, ans just came back to sports to go for this medal, and she got it.Shanadze got everything wrong, and she wasn't disqualified for no reason !by the way, why don't u mention that ? Fri 22 Aug 2008 21:08:38 GMT+1 elmothered #135Fair commentBut i understand how Shanaze is feeling, she trained hard for years and crashed out on the last turn. Thats got to be painful but credit to her, she's looking forward and trying to improve. The BMX was a success look forward to seeing it at 2012, much more exciting than horseracing!!! Fri 22 Aug 2008 21:08:31 GMT+1 Chris Q It was an interesting discussion - I don't think anyone can question her commitment. I think the event overall "got" to her a bit. A different discussion might have been was she trying too hard and not just utilising her undoubted ability? It often happens.Any disagreements in the discussion I felt were about interpretation of her position regarding her comments. I still have the opinion that commitment is fantastic but in a race at that point it was a mistake and a poor decision - understandably given it is an Olympic final.I simply cannot agree with the "silver is first loser" attitude. I feel it is a consequence of too many factors to say something so shallow. Many people struggle through adversity, prejudice and even illness to attempt a win. Rubbishing anything but first is understandable to an athlete in the rush after an event. To fail to recognise the flaw in the argument for the rest of us I find hard to agree with.The rest of us do not particularly disrespect the silver medallist, I suspect. And I also really believe that when she wakens up at home she will wish she had that medal - I really do believe that. However, we can never know.One thing I do not think she should be bothered about is this artificial criticism she should have put "Team GB" first - she puts her performance first and the team support her - not the other way around. "Team" in this context comes straight from the "After Dinner Speakers Handbook of Motivational and Marketing Twaddle".(That is a really bitter old-man comment!) Fri 22 Aug 2008 21:05:55 GMT+1 beag_beran Well done to Shanaze, who is obviously a brave person and has worked very hard.However, I find the idea that we should be teaching kids that it is better to risk serious injury than to win a silver medal really quite disturbing. Winning any Olympic medal is an amazing achievement - heck, getting on the team is a great achievement.If I have children, I will teach them to always try their best, to be happy with what they achieve, whether they are first or last, as long as they worked hard, but never to risk their own health or safety simply for a shiny bit of metal. Fri 22 Aug 2008 20:51:53 GMT+1 lwelshbloke #133 - I agree with you up to a point.I have no objection to all or nothing as long as it is within the rules.I think the fact that she got relegated to last place demonstrates that her manouevre was outside the rules and likely would have been (in my opinion) even is she hadn't crashed. Why? Because I think it almost certain she would have impeded the eventual winner.I think that the focus on that last passing attempt actually detracts from the view that some have made which is that her tactics were wrong overall. Had her tactics been better she wouldn't have been in that position in the first place but would maybe have been leading going into the last berm.All supposition of course but an interesting debate nonetheless. Fri 22 Aug 2008 20:33:35 GMT+1 Chris Q I think she showed tremendous commitment and certainly has attitude.I cannot agree she should be a poster girl for 2012, however. She has a tremendous talent but maybe a higher profile for the sport and a bigger pool of competitors will be her contribution from this Olympics.She has generated interest and provided good debate. She certainly caused a lot of discussion about whether saying "it's all or nothing" really is enough to explain what (I consider) a poor racing decision. I remain to be convinced it was worth the particular move she attempted.But a poster for the Olympics? Let's see how things go over the next 4 years, she may well be even more dominant then. In that case, yes. I will still cheer her on - no matter the media perception of her.Coincidentally, what gives with the "odd" comments at the end? It's a discussion of the story - not some social club for misfits. Fri 22 Aug 2008 20:28:06 GMT+1 MartinDFerry This post has been Removed Fri 22 Aug 2008 19:55:31 GMT+1 lwelshbloke Anyway - I'll let you have the last word - judging by your popularity with your other posts I'm sure you'll come up with another classic piece of prose that demonstrates why you should never have a career as a comdey writer.Have fun. Fri 22 Aug 2008 19:50:05 GMT+1 MartinDFerry This post has been Removed Fri 22 Aug 2008 19:49:15 GMT+1 lwelshbloke 126 - I'm so glad you feel the need to follow how much I post.And if our commentary is meaningless, what does that make yours? Fri 22 Aug 2008 19:45:20 GMT+1 Baron_Daguerre "This girl should be the poster girl for 2112" I'm sure she do just fine in 2012, but 2112? might be a bit wrinkly by then. Fri 22 Aug 2008 19:38:58 GMT+1 kevin i hope bmx isnt in 2012... how does it exactly qualify as a sport?what barriers to entry are there wen olympic sports are chosen?if bmx is allowed in then why not dodgeball or mayb even skateboarding... :S Fri 22 Aug 2008 19:38:42 GMT+1 MartinDFerry To push the buttons of folk who seem to do nothing else but generate meaningless commentary on silly non-sports such as BMX biking of course! And you needn't tell us how much you enjoy posting: you were at it at midnight last night, and again first thing this morning. You're clearly sacrificing a great of your life to post so much here, almost as much as your Olympic heroes! Could "Marathon Internet Posting" be an Olympic event in 2012? Fri 22 Aug 2008 19:37:17 GMT+1 margowan I have to say that I found the BMX outstanding viewing and was honestly gutted to see Reade fall on the last bend. This girl should be the poster girl for 2112. Fri 22 Aug 2008 19:33:32 GMT+1 lwelshbloke Well if you think its a waste of time, as your post would suggest, exactly why do you bother posting yourself?Is it to give those of us with nothing better to do an insight into that razor sharp mind of yours?I'm just guessing, but in all honesty its a serious question. I enjoy the debate on these boards. That's why I post. Why do you post? Fri 22 Aug 2008 18:54:54 GMT+1 MartinDFerry This post has been Removed Fri 22 Aug 2008 18:47:30 GMT+1 welshdavies55 Yes Shanaze could have settle for ‘Silver’ and wouldn’t that have been nice…But as Jonba said: "second place is the first loser"But as ever the British Press had decided that she had to win gold, nothing else would do and when she crashed trying then there is the inevitable press criticism. (Thought better of STW forum members)There was even some old bloke on the BBC saying she should have done “this” and “that”She came nowhere but watching the race this morning, gustiest Olympic performance to date, despite this being the most successful team GB for years some of our other athletes should take note:Shanaze turned up to Win – not take part. Fri 22 Aug 2008 18:22:02 GMT+1 lwelshbloke Just watched it again on the highlights programme - she's been classfied last despite another rider not finishing. She was relegated for that manoeuvre.I honestly think that even if she had held that inside line she'd have been DQ'd based on that as she would inevitably have impeded Chausson.So "poor judgement" is my verdict (though I confess I wouldn't have settled for silver either). Fri 22 Aug 2008 18:17:47 GMT+1 Baron_Daguerre Wingcommanderthrush, somewhere on this website it's recorded that while Keen was still performance director at the cycling squad, he made the decision to focus resources only on those athletes who were "obsessed with winning" Reade clearly has that obsession - without it she would have been at home watching the race on television like the rest of us. I suspect that all that was going through her mind was that silver just wasn't good enough for the world number 1. You may have seen a few very unhappy looking individuals standing on the second step at some of the medals ceremonies - and that's the attitude that gives them a chance of standing at the top.But even if the medals table was her sole concern, it should be pretty obvious that a slim chance of a gold is worth far more than a certain silver, so she wouldn't have done anything differently, would she?Killeenster: are you anything to do with Liam? Fri 22 Aug 2008 17:45:23 GMT+1 jamma16880 When you have two World Championship trophies among numerous others, a Silver or Bronze Olympic medal would just remind her of under achieving as much as her scars will.I think it's better to go out out in a blaze of glory gunning for Gold than ride conservatively for a runners up place. Thats been a typical trait of British sports teams/athletes for too long. Fri 22 Aug 2008 17:06:03 GMT+1 earthelement Factfan i am sure when you are world champion and have a chance of winning a medal at the Olympics you will ride the perfect race . Fri 22 Aug 2008 17:03:51 GMT+1 Factfan Reade did not do amazing! she made mistakes and looked over confident! She should have made sure of a medal when she realised she had been beaten by a better rider! In years to come I am sure she will regret that had she not been reckless she would have an Olympic medal to show for her efforts rather than just cuts and bruises!! Fri 22 Aug 2008 16:56:46 GMT+1 chute13 Shanaze did amazing, and she showed the Xtreme Sport ethic of go fast, go hard or don't bother.Some of you may not be aware that AC Chausson completely dominated Downhill and Dual Slalom Mountain biking for many years, when she retired she was still dominating. I believe that she retired because there was really no competition for her.Her downhill times where consistently in the top 25% of men times. She was the only female rider who nailed all of the jumps. AC Chausson is an off-road riding machine clinical, precise, fit and fearless.So I'm proud of her I watched for many years many girls try to get this close to Chausson.PS. Hopefully the BBC will us the chance to follow the career of Shanaze by televising BMX. Fri 22 Aug 2008 16:36:41 GMT+1 jamma16880 NikosBg, don't mistake confidence with arrogance. Reade is the reigning World Champion and hasn't lost all season, I think that gave her reason to feel 'confident'.Iwelshbloke As cyclists don't have engines berms are used to help BMX riders maintain their speed around the corner, just like a velodrome. However as BMX track are much tighter the optimum line around a berm is around the middle - gravity pushes you against the curve of the berm which reduces the chances of you sliding out. Which is what made Reade's early crash in qualifying so unlucky!Momentum is the key as its very difficult to regain speed if you hesitate or slow down. Alot of guys ride without brakes for exactly this reason. But obviously if you have 10 others all vying for position then some riders are going to gamble by trying to come up the inside and cut an opponent off to gain the position. After all it's almost impossible to pass around the outside.She rode the first corner quite cautiously because of her previous crash (and other peoples) there, and thats what allowed Chausson through.Her second mistake was that the line she took into the last bend was just a last ditch attempt which didn't come off. Fri 22 Aug 2008 16:36:00 GMT+1 Factfan Having made so many errors, some of technique and some of judgement, how can so many still talk about Reade being a role model or that she did well to come away without a medal?- a failure that cost 30,000 pounds to build a replica course for her to practice on. People will not remember her for being "brave" but will more likely actually think she was reckless. Fri 22 Aug 2008 16:32:41 GMT+1 earthelement Why shouldn`t she be confident, she is world champion. She made a mistake and paid the price trying to win and not be content with second.The way some of you criticise, you would think she is new to the sport and you are experts. She made a mistake and i don`t think anyone is arguing that point.What people are saying is fair play for having a winning attitude. I`m not going to have a go at any of our medal winners, but as some are saying she let team gb down for not getting the silver is wrong. If some of the silver medallists had a winning attitude, perhaps we would have 2-3 golds extra.If Andy Murry had half her attitude he may have done better instead of saying he was under prepared and didn`t realise what an Olympic medal meant to athletes.You should be directing your vitriol to the likes of him and not someone who was wanting to win Fri 22 Aug 2008 16:30:19 GMT+1 killeenster What the hell is wrong her saying she was confident for gold? She's not saying she was definite for a gold.Are you an Aussie by any chance? Fri 22 Aug 2008 16:12:36 GMT+1 nibs Hadn't she been saying all the time she was confident of gold?Typical British arrogance and disrespect of the opposition. Now have that!PS "British Cycling had paid out £30,000 to construct a replica of the Olympic BMX track in Manchester" Fri 22 Aug 2008 16:04:19 GMT+1 killeenster Too much speed into the berm. Was the mistake, a wee bit slower and she may have got the snap on her to the pedal to the rhythm section. She was brave to give it a go, many wouldn't have. Fri 22 Aug 2008 15:47:49 GMT+1 lwelshbloke Having watched the men's and women's races again - and in particular the line taken into berm 1 - it seems to me that in both men's and women's races that lane 1 did not allow for the fastest line around the berm.Chausson rides the berm at approximately the same height all the way around, whereas Reade goes in shallow and then goes high. The same seems to have happened in the men's race too.Judging from both men's and women's finals the rider in lane loses out both time despite carrying similar speed into the berm.So can all you BMX'ers out that explain the intracacies of berm riding - just looking at it it would appear that Reade's line was all over the place at on the first berm. Is that the result of her choosing lane 1? Fri 22 Aug 2008 15:43:35 GMT+1 Chris Q Quote:"You should give BMX or MTB 4X a go. You'll see how difficult it is to pass a rider on a straight. Most of the moves are done on corners."Fair enough - I don't ride (let alone race!) BMX. Used to ride a MTB a lot round the hills - but at a leisurely pace!I have done with Motorbikes - and I can see that the line on a bend is different. However, even after watching it again a few times - I don't think she was ever going to make that bend in front. I accept I may be wrong - often am.I just get this niggling feeling it's coz she is our athlete that she is being understood so well - the other way around I suspect it would have been a risky attempt putting our rider in danger.But she tried and she is very competitive - she will have her day in the Olympics sometime, surely. I can't help wondering if her overwhelming expectation and recent domination may have contributed to some of her panicky looking race decisions, too.What did Craig Pickering do or say, btw? Fri 22 Aug 2008 15:42:57 GMT+1 1Wattie dek-london "58"I`m not one of the sheep who are happy tohave a dig at our athletes and don`t kid on that I know a lot about B M X but after this olympics I`ve become a fan.I never realised how physically exerting it is and have the greatest respect for those who compete. Shanaze went to beijing and we all expected her, as world champ,to bring home the gold. As i say I`m no expert but I thought Shanaze only missed cutting inside on the last bend by about 2 inches and clipped Chaussona rear wheel. A calculated gamble that didn`t quite come off but she does not deserve the negative comments on here. If she had played safe and got silver or bronze she would always be thinking "what if" and the experts on here would be quick to point out her mistaken tactics.She did well and we should all be congratulating her. Fri 22 Aug 2008 15:34:51 GMT+1 jamma16880 The last corner was her last chance as the the run into the finish line is a rhythm section that the riders free wheel rather than pedal along.She knew she had to take the inside line to edge Chausson out but carried to much speed in and couldn't make the turn. Fri 22 Aug 2008 15:22:47 GMT+1 super_hype She's a legend. If only we had more athletes with such an attitude.Craig Pickering isn't fit to carry her bike back up the hill. Fri 22 Aug 2008 15:16:40 GMT+1 killeenster Fair points.But watching the race again (I've done so quite a few times) she was totally right to try and take the inside line on the last berm. (they are called berms by the way people :-) ) It was her only chance of grabbing gold from Chausson.Like I said earlier Chasusson is 13 times Downhill Mountain Bike Champion. Reade knew that. She wasn't going to lose that lead on the last straight no matter how hard Reade tried.The race was lost on the first berm not by a mistake from Reade but a great passing move by Chausson.You should give BMX or MTB 4X a go. You'll see how difficult it is to pass a rider on a straight. Most of the moves are done on corners. Fri 22 Aug 2008 15:06:13 GMT+1 wingcommanderthrush Quote: That 'leader board' would be the medal table where one gold counts for more than a hundred silvers?Yes, and in the event of a tie of Gold Medals on the table it defers to who has the most silvers.And as for the comment on athletes doing for themselves - that makes the concept of 'Team GB' a joke. Why should we get behind the team when the team won't get behind each other? Doesn't bode well for a united front in 2012! Fri 22 Aug 2008 15:00:17 GMT+1 ShavedLegs The count on the medals table is only there to keep the politicians (and other non-sports enthusiasts) happy - the atheletes are there to perform to the best of their ability in there own events. BMX is an individual sport, it's not like she was part of a team in a road race, so she was quite right to go all out for the win or nothing.I'm really dissappointed for her. She deserved to walk away with more for her hard work and attitude, but that's sport. If events were all predetermined on form and reputation it wouldn't be sport.Look forward to a gold in 2012 for Speedy Readey either in BMX or on the track. Fri 22 Aug 2008 14:54:39 GMT+1 Chris Q Hi again killeenster,You yourself said:"Give 100% until you cross the line. Its what all winners do."If I am being honest - but I am not pretending to be an expert - that line she attempted was never going to come in without going across the rider in front. I don't ride BMX.At that jump - leading into the bend - she made a mistake - in my opinion. As evidence of that I would say - look at what happened.The girl does not train for silver but there was still enough race left - and a bad corner the french girl might have run out on - to make her call a bad one. I just found the reaction of comments pretending that it was glorious to try to the point of crashing.I think she was so determined it affected her decision and she would have been better getting her line right and racing to the line instead of such a risky passing attempt. That would not - in any way - have meant she did not try 100% - it would have meant she did not make a mistake.What would have happened if the french rider lost it - which would have been very easy to do - on that bend?As you said - "until you cross the line" - coming off beforehand is not a "winners" mentality - it is a mistake. A "winner" would have crossed the line first. In no time at all people will never give it a thought except her and friends. And come the next Olympics they will say "is she going to make the same mistakes again and lose it".I sound heartless but I do not mean to be. I just think we lionise the wrong things sometimes. Fri 22 Aug 2008 14:52:10 GMT+1 Chris Q lwelshbloke,many thanks for that top info - I did not know that and I have just quoted it in the office so I hope you were telling the truth!It is amazing how many people were glad softball had been dropped - and yet how many seemed to rate Beach Volleyball. Seemed to be a bit of a male/female split there. Fri 22 Aug 2008 14:37:14 GMT+1 killeenster Hello back quijote1303But no serious athlete would train for silver. She wanted a gold and thats what she tried to win. Fri 22 Aug 2008 14:34:27 GMT+1 lwelshbloke Post 92Softball/baseball has been dropped for 2012.However the International Baseball Federation are lobbying for inclusion in 2016 and if successful will lobby for 2012.Squash and Karate were nominated as replacements but neither polled enough votes. Rugby sevens, golf and roller skating were the other possibles.So London 2012 will have only 26 sports. Fri 22 Aug 2008 14:28:04 GMT+1 Chris Q Hi killeenster,I do recognise that and I am not critical of her competitive spirit.I am just not eloquent!The way I preceive it is this - she made a slight mistake earlier and lost out the lead on the race. She then tried to rectify it with a move which meant she lost the front end and crashed.This may seem petty but in my opinion she should just admit it and say:"I took a risk and it cost me the Gold"which is very different from:"you don't train as hard as I do for Silver"One suggests a talented rider who thought she could beat her opponent - the other suggests a reckless rider who may well have underestimated the opposition.Just my opinion. Fri 22 Aug 2008 14:25:23 GMT+1 suren27 Forget whether you like the sport!! Get behind Team GB! Great attitude and im sure that we will hear her quote many times before 2012! :) Fri 22 Aug 2008 14:22:45 GMT+1 Bernard Hinault At least she didn't stop half-way or start blubbing about how she's entitled to win a gold medal and be in the GB team like Paula Radcliffe. Fri 22 Aug 2008 14:19:15 GMT+1 killeenster quijote1303 - I think what she means is she wanted gold so made a move that she knew could have taken her out of medal contention.Nothing wrong with that in my book.Give 100% until you cross the line. Its what all winners do. Fri 22 Aug 2008 14:08:53 GMT+1 jamma16880 "YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING,IF THAT WAS NOT AN ATEMPT TO TAKE THE FRENCH WOMAN OUT THEN I AM NOT Michael Schumacher."agarthehorrible you have clearly never ridden your tricycle close enough to the back wheel of another person to understand that the person behined will ultimately be the one to go down, not the person in front.There is no way in the world she was deliberately trying to take Chasson out. You can't just T-bone someone on a BMX as you might on a Motorcross bike. Fri 22 Aug 2008 13:53:52 GMT+1 Gatlands Jolly Lions Tour It's a shame she didn't win, at least she went for the gold which is more than you can say for some people who wear the team GB colours.Better luck next time.I can't help wondering if BMX makes it into the games then why can't rugby sevens as it's played all over the world and is one of the fastest growing sports?Please please drop SOFTBALL/BASEBALL for 2012 Fri 22 Aug 2008 13:52:27 GMT+1 BlinkenLights agarthehorrible - Please don't shout.Suggesting that she was trying to take out the French rider is ridiculous as you can't take out another rider without taking out yourself as well."It’s better to try and fail than to have never tried at all". Fri 22 Aug 2008 13:48:20 GMT+1 Chris Q Yeah - she did have just a bad day. I think I am reacting to the comments rather than the rider - to make it clear.She clipped a rider - just a racing incident - and she has become very used to winning in the last few years.What intrigued me was this attitude she "chose" to burn out rather than to win. That is just nonsense. She made a mistake and would have loved gold but ended up with nothing.Now that is just sport and racing luck. What I find a touch strange is the interpretation put on her comments. Nobody chooses an accident and if you make a mistake leading to an accident it is not the correct decision - it is a mistake.So don't let us confuse attitude with ability to win - which is a very common interpretation of sports personalities in the media. She can say what she likes - she battled hard and needs to get over the pain and the pride being battered. But let's not pretend a generation of sports men and women should go around pretending a bad judgement call or crash out is acceptable coz - hey - silver is meaningless anyway. That is a cop out. Fri 22 Aug 2008 13:36:58 GMT+1 Born_Again When's the unicycling on? Fri 22 Aug 2008 13:34:24 GMT+1 Bernard Hinault BMX is obviously a sport, as you can easily measure who's won, and its not a matter of some judges opinion. What people don't seem to like here is that its not predictable, in that the world No. 1 can be wiped out in a crash (could you imagine the uproar if it had been a crash not of Reade's making). To me, its analogous to Speed Skating at the Winter Olympics. Fri 22 Aug 2008 13:32:46 GMT+1 agarthehorrible YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING,IF THAT WAS NOT AN ATEMPT TO TAKE THE FRENCH WOMAN OUT THEN I AM NOT Michael Schumacher.FOUL FOUL FOUL Fri 22 Aug 2008 13:31:42 GMT+1 robbyking The should replace all the horse riding events with bmx events, freestyle for those silly dancing horses, and jumping.There are alot of sports which provide no use such as swinging around on a 'horse', and those that provide no entertainment, judo, where two men hug for 5 minutes.BMX is entertainment and it's sport. Fri 22 Aug 2008 13:26:38 GMT+1 expatintx quijote1303 - I guess we'll agree to disagree then!And to everyone saying "She should have taken one for the team", why?It's not as if everyone in "Team GB" gets a medal if we finish in the top three of the medal table (however that may be calculated - in the States the US are top and we're 4th).To be fair, she's with a lot of people in "Team GB" she doesn't know from jack. I'm sure she, and the rest of them, are more concerned with their own performance than where we are in the medal table. Fri 22 Aug 2008 13:25:11 GMT+1 Red Nosed Burglar First time I ever saw BMX! What a fun sport. My wife, who is a sports fan....NOT!!!.... really enjoyed it, saying it was like watching a live version of Mario Kart on little bikes. I have been trying to get her to like sports for years.. first time ever she has shown any incline. More of the same please! Fri 22 Aug 2008 13:22:28 GMT+1 WW A convincing argument for wearing a helmet when cycling.WW Fri 22 Aug 2008 13:18:33 GMT+1 nick3216 Well done to Shanaze. As to those who say she should have listened to her coach, Chris Boardman may be fast on the velodrome but I wouldn't listen to his advice about how to ride a BMX race. Fri 22 Aug 2008 13:14:53 GMT+1 killeenster I'd rather have seen her take a silver though. But I dont blame her for going for that move to take the gold. It was worth a shot. It just didn't pay off which is a real shame as she's quite clearly one of the best riders out there. Fri 22 Aug 2008 13:11:39 GMT+1 IRSWalker Maybe a BMX expert can help with something: as fastest qualifier, she had her pick of the lanes, and chose Lane 1 which in theory has the shortest run. However, given her tactics of clearing the third jump and thus coming into the corner at very high speed, was she always going to end up riding high on the banking and exit? In which case, would a more central lane (like she had in the semis) have been a better choice?I can understand not wanting to be "in the mix" of the centre, but if you've got a faster start than everyone else, it shouldn't matter that much. And the first rule of all wheeled sports is "slow in, fast out"So glad that she wiped out trying to get gold, rather than settle for "first loser". What a great role model for 2012! Fri 22 Aug 2008 13:05:16 GMT+1 earthelement Perhaps realising she was part of the team she wanted to get the gold so GB could finish higher up the table Fri 22 Aug 2008 13:00:51 GMT+1 jamma16880 And wingcommanderthrush, first and foremost most Olympic athletes are competing for themselves. Some may have time to stop during they're event to contemplate their contribution to 'the team' but Shazne Reade does not necessarily have that luxury when shes tearing into a bend with 9 other girls right on her tail. Fri 22 Aug 2008 12:56:37 GMT+1 Baron_Daguerre Wingcommanderthrush: "May I remind you that she is part of a team ... and realising she could not win she should have bagged a silver medal for the team in their efforts to finish as far up the leader board as possible."That 'leader board' would be the medal table where one gold counts for more than a hundred silvers? Fri 22 Aug 2008 12:54:24 GMT+1 jamma16880 quijote 1303 there are many more variables in 9 or 10 BMX riders on different lines all racing into into a tight bend together at around 30mph than taking three or four steps before kicking a stationary ball into a net.And once again, her misjudgement of the jump was in a preliminary round, not the final! She crashed in the final because she 'clipped' Chaussons back wheel.BMX racing is all about taking calculated risks, sometimes the risks pay off, sometimes they don't. There is a very, very thin line between success and failure. Shazne Reade is a multiple world champion and regularly beats all these competitors, today just wasn't her day. Fri 22 Aug 2008 12:48:01 GMT+1 killeenster She was good enough to win.She is currently world champion!Just unlucky in a few of her judgments. She'll no doubt gain something from this and use it in her next big race. Fri 22 Aug 2008 12:42:54 GMT+1 wingcommanderthrush Quote: 'People like you are the reason this country has underperformed at sport for years. People who shrug there shoulders and settle for second best.'May I remind you that she is part of a team (the ridiculously named Team GB), and realising she could not win she should have bagged a silver medal for the team in their efforts to finish as far up the leader board as possible. Hypothetically speaking, if GB miss out on a place on the leader board by one silver medal would you be applauding her?She knew that move was not on and could have resulted in the French girl crashing too. She was irresponsible, and to the person who said no-one deserved a gold more than her - golds are earned, she was neither mature or deserving enough to claim gold. Hopefully in four years time she will have grown up a bit - or she might be upstaged by the debuting Hopscotch Tournament!!! Fri 22 Aug 2008 12:40:10 GMT+1 earthelement No 67 I assume you mean the Triple Jump.If you listen to him talk he is so disappointed not to win that he feels he let everyone down.I guess Shanaze would feel the same which is why she wanted to win. Can`t fault her for trying her hardest even if as you say, she isn`t as good as she thinks she is.At least she got close to winning a medal.When was the last time you could say that? Fri 22 Aug 2008 12:37:21 GMT+1 The_Bogdo She gambled and paid the price, but a true cham wouldn't have gone for that ridiculous long jump when she was winning fairly comfortably. She's young and will improve but I hope her coaches get it inside her head that a true champion just doesn't need to take gambles like that in order to win. They keep doing the things that got them into that position in the first place. Fri 22 Aug 2008 12:37:07 GMT+1 Chris Q Expatintx - I understand your attitude but I don't feel it is the same analogy.I, personally, am not dissing her - she is a great rider. However, simply because she has attitude does not mean we should overlook the faults.All the riders were on the same course and had equal chances - she just wasn't good enough - if a suicide jump taken to the point of falling off is her only hope of winning - she didn't ride a good enough race.I am only reacting to the comments here which are almost glorifying her to a point "beyond" having won. You don't get the gold for just talking like a champion, either. You actually need to win it. Fri 22 Aug 2008 12:25:40 GMT+1 ednwireland could someone explain why we lost track cycling to put this in? and why did swimming not have to drop events (as far as i can see) to put in the open water swimming ?however this is decided is a joke i love cycling and mountain biking but why is bmx in the same category hard luck to the team gb rider but maybe she needs bigger wheels Fri 22 Aug 2008 12:25:39 GMT+1 Chris Q I should have said Javelin and Triple Jump! Whatever! Fri 22 Aug 2008 12:17:58 GMT+1 expatintx I must say I'm dissapointed, but not suprised, at the comments dissing Shanaze. I expect these people were also queueing up to complain when Kevin Pietersen holed out on 94 when trying to score a century with a six - I prefer that every day of the week to Geoffrey Boycott scratching about for hours for 20 odd runs.Shanaze and KP both want to win, and what's more, to win gloriously.Good on 'em - we need more of that sort of attitude! Fri 22 Aug 2008 12:16:02 GMT+1 Chris Q Quote:"SECOND PLACE IS NO BETTER THAN LAST!"What a lot of nonsense. One of the pre-requisites in BMX is judgement of your skills - don't confuse egotism with bad luck.Did she even finish? Crashing the way she did is the equivalent of missing a penalty or throwing the javaling out of the area. Bad execution and over-confidence in her skills.With practice she may be as good as she believes she is - a certain man in the long jump only managed silver too - but I bet he will enjoy his status as an olympic medal winner in years to come - in spite of all the posturing. He, at least, got on the podium. Fri 22 Aug 2008 12:15:21 GMT+1 wellsyrocks High five to dek-london (comment 44). I completely agree with you. BMXing is a sport, I don't do it myself, but I do a similar sport which is esentially the same just on bigger bikes. I would love to see 4x racing in the Olympics and better still downhill racing. These are what I call exciting sports. They may seem a bit bizare to most people, but thats the whole point of them, they are extreme sports. Just because you have to have a lot of guts and be able to take a lot of pain doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed in the Olympics. They take a lot of skill and determination to do. All those out there who slagging off BMXing need putting on a BMX and being forced down that track to find out what it's like.Shanaze Reade needs our support and congratulations on a galiant attempt. On her first run in the heats when she crashed she showed everyone how brave she is by getting back on her BMX and crossing the line. She must have been in agony after that fall because it does hurt, I have experienced falls like that. I love her attitude as well, if there was an Olympic medal for attitude she deserves the gold more than any other Olympian this year. I hope to see her back in 4 years time in London. Fri 22 Aug 2008 12:10:17 GMT+1 earthelement Her attitude is spot on. When i saw the crash i was thinking she was stupid for taking a gamble when she couldv`e taken an easy silver. Guess that is why she is a world champion and i`m a spectator. Compare her attitude to Andy Murray, i`d take hers any day and hope she gets the wins she deserves Fri 22 Aug 2008 12:05:35 GMT+1 ZEUSFC Finally! a sport where we can watch some good old fashion blood-loss, and the competitors show their injuries with pride, and not for sympathy! Well done to Shanaze for realising that when you are the world's number one, SECOND PLACE IS NO BETTER THAN LAST! Fri 22 Aug 2008 11:59:43 GMT+1