Comments for en-gb 30 Thu 28 Aug 2014 04:52:22 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at XiaoYin Sorry all about the typos. Will try to do better next time :) Sun 17 Aug 2008 03:44:55 GMT+1 XiaoYin This is what I have to say:1. Great opening ceremony! With or without the grand ceremony, the achievements and progress made by China is evident. I am very proud my motherland. Go China! You have come a long way! Long long way to go yet. But the journey has started again. Never underestimate the obstacles on the way. But with determination, courage, intelligence of the people, you will get there. Don't forget tolerance, compassion and humility too. Go China! Go!2. Funny blog Tom, at least to some. 3. Yes the western perception of China is NOT balanced. The reporting in general is NOT without prejudice. This demonstrates it is EVEN MORE important for China to keep its door open to the outside world. So we can get to know each other more. For instance, we will understand their sense of humor more. I am not naive enough to think that the western media will be entirely fair and well balanced anytime soon. But I do have faith in humanity. OK sometimes it is hard, especially when the western shinny models repeated demonstrate their superior democracy with guns and missiles, and at the same time preaching others about human rights. But hopefully human race with eventually learn to live together peacefully, and enjoy the diver cultures before too many get lost.4. BiggerBlogger and friends, I am embarrassed by your behavior. I understand the hurt you do feel by the media bias. But what you are doing is what I saw in the Cultural Revolution. You are not doing the Chinese any service. So please don't forget the Chinese teaching, loudness is not an indication of one's righteousness. You have made your views heard clearly already. No need to shout and throw tantrums. Democracy gives one rights to speak and also demands the ability to listen.5. Thanks for listening. My second blog ever. Sun 17 Aug 2008 03:32:21 GMT+1 howfunnyitis Hey guys, Briton (oh Great B**n ;-) is a free country, some people like Tom or whatever has his right to speak what she (actually this country too many gays you can call she anyway) wants. Let Tom her go ... don't bother her crying over someting hurting inside her.How do you wish a country full of gays and there is no man in this land that they have to be led by such an old woman (that one likes to put bird fur on hat so funny )... let's see what they do for year 1013 opening ceremony?Cannot help to laugh ;-)What Chinese should remember is : never let the opium war happened again! Another piece of world : we go our road and let dog bark! Fri 15 Aug 2008 08:39:16 GMT+1 missingalink Opening ceremony parade protest avoidance: Disorganised protesters would find it hard to make themselves noticed in the gigantic extravaganza of the Olympic opening ceremony in Beijing. But a viral 'Ti-Bet! Ti-Bet!" chant could have engulfed the stadium audience had there been a particular instant when Tibet was in people's thoughts. With an alphabetical parade of countries this moment would have happened: if Thailand were followed by Timor Leste (as it would have under the parade format of all past olympics), Tibet's absence in the world's rollcall of nations could have sparked a moment of free expression utterly beyond the control of the ceremony's stage-managers. This would have been extremely unwelcome to the host nation, which makes me wonder whether the unprecedented step of parading national teams in a to-me-opaque non-alphabetical order wasn't a deliberate strategy to avoid having a 'spark moment'. I know that if I were the Chinese government and seeking to squash unauthorised politics from their showcase event, I would have chosen exactly this strategy. Thu 14 Aug 2008 14:54:15 GMT+1 Michaelbanks2002 It's always amusing to see that one wants to shut down another's opinions in the name of defending the freedom of speech of the thrid person. Tue 12 Aug 2008 20:33:49 GMT+1 phil "Stop biased reporting, Tom. I do wonder why BBC always biases on every positive thing on China, but only focuses on politics or polutions whatever. This is Olympic, it has nothing to do with politics, it's only about competition...Tom, let me ask you what will you expect on London Olympic opening ceremony in 2012? What will you British show us? Fish and chips? Or drunk and pregnant teenagers killing each other? That is what 'London's culture' is about. "and i thought it had nothing to do with politics...if i was defending china i would probably try to stay away from the subject of media bias tbhhowever, i do agree with some of what has been said. i mean, what exactly are we going to include in our opening ceremony?we can hardly celebrate our history without offending someone (something which the government is petrified of doing nowadays) as our moments of patriotic pride or greatness involve our empire (colonialism, boooo) or the world wars (germany, booo)besides, if we were to spend lots of money on an opening ceremony we would probably end up spouting the rubbish we see on these blogs almost daily ("waste of license payers money" seems to spring to mind)except it would be tax, not license feeobviously Tue 12 Aug 2008 11:33:08 GMT+1 westmeadboy sandcastlejim - Great point there. Of the first 211 comments, 3 were removed which leaves 208 comments agreeing with Tom's opinion.Have you actually read the comments? Tue 12 Aug 2008 10:33:11 GMT+1 sandcastlejim how come anyone who disagrees with one of these column-writers has their blog removed under "house rules". joke Tue 12 Aug 2008 09:52:46 GMT+1 zz_forever The opening ceremony is the best live performance I've ever seen. In a world of imperfection, for a short moment, the ceremony was and is perfect. The ceremony was a big celebration of Chinese history from past to present. And what's wrong with that? For a country who shut the down to the world for so long, it is such a welcoming message. Was it over the top? Yes. Was it great? Absolutely. It was China's moment in the sun, just let it be. Don't be over critical. Mon 11 Aug 2008 22:14:18 GMT+1 bitterblogger "first of all, BBC is well known as biased broadcasting and lier"BBC may be biased and at times misleading, but they don't lie."second of all, I have no doubt that 2010 London summer olympic game opening ceremony can't top beijing's."Why should they want to? British don't need an opening ceremony to show how developed and advanced they are. Everybody knows they are."Now China is much much better than before, if china sensor the media, do you think the world can see the Tibet riot, can monks talk to media and express their motion?"It's embarassing to read this as a Chinese."Tom Fordyce you really should go back to school and study other's history and modern technologies, I bet you don't even know the terms for the technologies chinese people used in the Beijing opening ceremony."Irrelevant. Mon 11 Aug 2008 20:40:31 GMT+1 jj0914 first of all, BBC is well known as biased broadcasting and lier, that's why they hire some one like Tom Fordyce write some trash.second of all, I have no doubt that 2010 London summer olympic game opening ceremony can't top beijing's. Because you guys spend more time to criticize other instead of put your head down to mind your own business.third of all, speaking of sensory of media, why did BBC remove some of the comments, because of the bad language, or something BBC doesn't want others to read.Now China is much much better than before, if china sensor the media, do you think the world can see the Tibet riot, can monks talk to media and express their motion?Tom Fordyce you really should go back to school and study other's history and modern technologies, I bet you don't even know the terms for the technologies chinese people used in the Beijing opening ceremony. it's shame on you that you even wrote the article based on the lack of knowledge you have. if I was you, I wouldn't even want to post my picture there, such a big SHAME!!!!! Mon 11 Aug 2008 18:09:04 GMT+1 beijing_ren Well said #201. I totally agree. The vast amount of cynicism throughout this peice of writing indeed only reflects the personal thoughts of one man. And in our civilized, fair, democratic society, we accept and applaud. However, his sarcastic tone really is hurtful to see, as I know of the amount of love and dedication so many ordinary people had poured into the Olympics. You can't please everyone. Oh well. Lets see how the gorgeous Gordon Brown will lead London into the Olympics.More than anything mentioned in Tom's peice, Chinese atheletes are showing the world what they are made of in action. I think 1.4 billion of people will get the last laugh. Mon 11 Aug 2008 13:18:07 GMT+1 kor-andy I though that the opening ceremony was defitely the most impressive ever but I expected nothing less. China is the biggest country ever to organise Olympic games and they've got the money to do that.Plus they the have a very rich history and culture which they presented beautifuly. However, although I really enjoyed it I thought that that the Athens opening ceremony was (even simpler) more emotional and classier. I remember the simplicity which was effective, the emotion and the symbolism. Which means that more isn't always necessarily better. Mon 11 Aug 2008 09:09:10 GMT+1 no monkeying about please apologies to our chinese posters from all reasonble posters in the UKyou have clearly been provokedso far games are about 7 out of 10. smog and pollution is applalling Sun 10 Aug 2008 15:15:16 GMT+1 AllenAtlanta RE: #188 bighullabaloo Thank you bighullabaloo and yes, you can count me as one of your fans!Checking back in on this blog on an early Sunday morning, I can not believe this discussion is still on-going. The entire world, except for Tom, the BBC and some of the posters on this blog, seem to agree that the Beijing Opening Ceremony was beautiful, spectacular, awesome and the most incredible staged by any Olympics host city and country of the modern era. Yes, the tremendous economic growth in China over the past 20 years have come at an ecological price and yes China still has social/governmental reforms to make as it shifts to capital socialism and a more open society, but for a nation of 1.5 billion people to accomplish what the Chinese have done in such an incredibly short period of time is mind boggling! The Chinese staged a fantastic openig show to what is now unfolding day by day as well planned and well managed games of the 29th Olympiad. Congratulations to Beijing and China! Sun 10 Aug 2008 13:57:13 GMT+1 U12948734 "I also thought Tom's tone was a bit negative, but hey he's a blogger and has an opinion"Hey, I'm a commenter and have an opinion on what the blogger wrote! "I think hurling all these personal insults at the British because a blogger dared to pass a few sarcastic comments is a bit over the top"Come on, that's too funny. I simply made a few sarcastic comments in response to those of the blogger. If his were harmless fun then so were mine. Maybe mine raised him a little in the insult stakes, but if he can dish it out no doubt he can take it as well, no need for people to be getting so worked up about it.Equally funny is the assumption that I must be a brainwashed mouthpiece of the PRC government with a huge chip on his shoulder... I'm a Westerner, a UK citizen in fact (although fortunately I never had to live there ;-) No connection to the PRC, they aren't paying me a penny for this propagandizing on their behalf. Maybe I should ask them? I do think though that there is generally a fair bit of hypocrisy, double standards, and somewhat xenophobic negativity in the West's attitude to China. (E.g., the assumption that most Chinese don't like or support their government, or wouldn't if they hadn't been totally brainwashed. Westerners find that so easy to believe, it fits so neatly with their ideas of what China is about these days.) Cheers, Fyodor (For some reason the mods didn't like my name "Fyodor U**off" so that's why it's changed.) Sun 10 Aug 2008 12:02:41 GMT+1 Dr_Grammar shinejuan, no need to apologise at all, it's good to see a rational response to this debate. If you read most of the comments and UK press you'll notice that most people think the opening ceremony was by far the best ever and will be almost impossible to improve on. Unfortunately Tom's rather sarcastic take on it seems to have generated a lot of anger and some rather unnecessary insults - perhaps everyone can calm down now and not take things so personally. Sun 10 Aug 2008 10:16:39 GMT+1 fishlovecrystal hey, The best way to grap attentions is to say negative things about positive stuff. You acheived it. way to go!Of course it's your right to have your opinion about the opening ceremony.I only want to say you would be so proud and impressed if you understand the Chinese culture background and how much effort these people put into the opening. I do not mind your opinion, I understand where you come from but I am also very proud of China. Yes I am a Chinese, but I am not hired by Chinese govement to say good things about them and I am not brain washed by them either. It's a shame that Beijing is doing everything to please you and your group. Well, I hope they can be relax and understand they can not please everyone anyway. They got their job done very well. Sun 10 Aug 2008 10:12:06 GMT+1 shinejuan sorry i had some language mistakes in my comment as long as you long as should be as long as.. stupid me.. sorry Sun 10 Aug 2008 10:07:28 GMT+1 shinejuan take it easy .. it is only a game.eveyone has his/her opinion as long as you long as you dont insult others, there is no point blaming or chinese, i cant really agree with someone who said that" the government employed ppl to comment, there is really no point doing that, . maybe they were just angry so they said something..about the ceremony i want to say if there were another chance we would improve however there werent.. again take it easy Sun 10 Aug 2008 10:05:11 GMT+1 corry2403 #197 - Were you born there? Sun 10 Aug 2008 08:27:22 GMT+1 amethystlilly #175 Sweden Sun 10 Aug 2008 07:31:15 GMT+1 corry2403 Given the rudeness of the comments from some of our Chinese friends on here I have to say I'm very impressed by the level of restraint shown by the Brits thus far. The likes of Fyodor and Bitter may have lowered the bar to the level of out and out insults but it's good to see we haven't taken the bait, well done people :-)On the otherhand, if I were Chinese then I think I'd be rather embarrased by their debating 'skills'.For example, there's more holes in the logic of the following quote than you can shake a tagger's fat marker pen at...Fyodor on the Chinese tourists who may head to London in 2012..."They have this peculiar fixation with harmony, especially harmonious relations between people, and that's not exactly what they are likely to encounter from the charming youths hanging out on London's streets. (Pollution of a different kind.)"Righty-ho then, and you wonder why media commentators continue to refer to the various issues (human rights, supression of dissent, Tibet) in China? It's because people like you are clearly happy to sweep 'em under the carpet and roll out such drivel, and you accuse the BBC of having an agenda? Laughable. Sun 10 Aug 2008 04:16:01 GMT+1 Saffavescent These posts from the likes of "Fyodor" and bitterblogger seem unnecessarily unpleasant and are clearly the product of rather large chips on shoulders. I also thought Tom's tone was a bit negative, but hey he's a blogger and has an opinion. If you want unadulterated praise try Xinhua. Most of the UK press seem to have been full of praise, if that's what you really want.I'm not British (but have lived there recently), but I think hurling all these personal insults at the British because a blogger dared to pass a few sarcastic comments is a bit over the top. So in 2012 if a Chinese blogger says the opening ceremony was ok, but the place is a bit dirty and the dancing could have been better... will the British flock to Chinese websites to list all the things they don't like about the Chinese and Chinese culture? Or insulting their weight and social problems like you have here? Well I hope not.So why sink to this level now? Are you really this insecure? Let's just enjoy the games, and hopefully disagree with bloggers without resorting to this stuff. Sun 10 Aug 2008 03:53:20 GMT+1 U12948734 "The assault on the senses was such that you were swept you along relentlessly, even when the logical part of your brain was cringing at the goose-stepping soldiers holding the Olympic flag,..."I guess that was just a case of the Chinese wanting to include what was important to them despite the funny impression it might give to foreigners. Hopefully the Brits will be equally uninhibited in 2012 and include the UK equivalent: rampaging, knife-wielding hoodies acting out the kickings, stabbings and drunken abuse that UK city centers are so famous for."...the world's leaders fawning over Chinese president Hu Jintao..." Yes, that must have been greatly offensive to a Brit's sensibilities. If only they could show some class like that former prime minister of yours and restrict their fawning to foreign leaders who really deserve it like Bush. "...and the enormous military helicopter that circled overhead for the entire four hours."Oh the wastefulness of it! Think of how many civilian marketplaces it could have ravaged with its missiles if only it had been deployed more appropriately in a foreign country. "This was chest-beating on an epic scale."Well yes, of course it was. On the other hand, when the Australians went all out to impress the world with a spectacular show in 2000 they're just good Aussie blokes. We must always remember to characterize the same thing in different ways when it is different countries that are doing it. Good job we have people like you to do that for us Tom! You certainly are a gem in the BBC's crown."Forget the pollution and the human rights issues, seemed to be the message - let's have some pretty fireworks instead." Aha, so it was all just a devious ploy to distract us from all their evil-doing. Well spotted Tom! It was naive of them to think it would work though; the Brits and their allies are particularly sensitive to any kinds of injustice, being the lilly-white angels that they are. "Then, just when the mind was at its weakest, Sarah Brightman floated into view with a moon-faced grin spread across her chops."Oh my, how you suffered Tom. You Brits have such delicate sensibilities regarding good taste, are you sure it was wise to put yourself in a situation with so much potential for distress? Better you stay safely at home in future.If it is any consolation, Tom, your present distress will be more than matched by Chinese visitors to the London Olympics. They have this peculiar fixation with harmony, especially harmonious relations between people, and that's not exactly what they are likely to encounter from the charming youths hanging out on London's streets. (Pollution of a different kind.) Sun 10 Aug 2008 01:57:08 GMT+1 Saffavescent Bitterblogger, don't you owe yourself a rest now? Must be 10am in Beijing now, that's quite a session you've put in. Respect. Sun 10 Aug 2008 01:10:54 GMT+1 piechucker31 I dunno bb, judging by his cricket and rugby blogs which I have usually enjoyed I reckon he would be quite entertained and happy to join in the "banter". Sun 10 Aug 2008 00:47:26 GMT+1 bitterblogger Just saved a copy of this page in case of a post carnage.With hindsight, it might have been a bless for many who have posted here that the author hadn't been able to access this blog. Sun 10 Aug 2008 00:34:53 GMT+1 piechucker31 asampedas,Post #93:"Hi,I have a message for you all from Tom who is finding it very frustrating that due to the difficulties in accessing the blog from Beijing he is unable to take part in this conversation.Thanks for your understanding.Ian W - BBC Sport in London"Just putting this up to point out that whoever at the BBC did edit post #2, it probably wasn't Tom. Sun 10 Aug 2008 00:31:15 GMT+1 asampedas One question Tom, Why did you delete comment #2 from Kosowski ?I read his comment yesterday before you took it down and don't remember it being abusive in any way. If I remember correctly, it went to remind you (I quote, incase this is your first time) opening ceremonies ARE grandeur, as with Australia's and Greece's, and more about introducing their countries and showcasing their cultures to the world. The sports part comes later. I am fine with your writing style . BUT deleting his comment does NOT really sit right with me. If the comment was abusive/offensive, I can understand you took it down. But it was sarcastic (like yours) more than anything. Shouting about freedom of speech and oppression eh?hypocrisy at its height Sun 10 Aug 2008 00:20:14 GMT+1 bighullabaloo # 178 twinhonnisoit -"Just a word on the sad case of bighullaballo, that egregious member of the Caledonian lunatic fringe. Why doesn't he follow the King of Spain's excellent 'advice' to Hugo Chavez and just shut up."Because I couldn't possibly disappoint my fans like AllenAtlanta (see #141 and #142) and corry2403 (see #128) who unlike you don't suffer from that terrible English afflication of liking to give it out but not being able to take it!8-) Sat 09 Aug 2008 23:24:51 GMT+1 Vaughan_the_Prawn bitterblogger, I don't want to get into a personal slanging match with you here, it looks as though you have a few of those on the go already!I think there is a common cultural difference here which we're all going to have to get used to. In the West, as you no doubt know, we don't view ourselves as one with our government, and spend a great deal of time criticising our own govts, not least over Iraq and the other things you've mentioned! At least we can. But China is different and many Chinese seem to view any criticism of their govt's policies as criticism of all Chinese people, despite the fact that many of us (as you can see from comments above) have a generally favourable view of the Chinese people. I guess both sides have something to learn.Because I disagree with China's policies in Africa, which I have seen firsthand, I may pass a comment on a blog like this, but I would never attack the personal characteristics of all Chinese people as you have done with the British (we're not actually all overweight pregnant teenage binge-drinkers). Quite hard to take from someone like you who lives here, but mostly true, I agree. But now picture any of us saying something similar about you Chinese - I can picture the reaction already.And no, I don't completely trust our media, so I read as widely as possible (including Chinese media). I hope someday all your countrymen have the same right. China is a superpower now, as befitting its size, well done. But with that comes more scrutiny and criticism. Look at the stuff Americans have to put up with since they became the world's dominant power, even if they individually have nothing to do with Iraq or Guantanamo. Even here in insignificant little Britain we get criticised about the old days of 'Empire', etc. We have much to learn about China, but you also have much to learn about how the rest of the world has developed and why some things (such as press freedom, democracy, etc) mean so much to us. Best wishes. Sat 09 Aug 2008 23:01:13 GMT+1 bitterblogger "...actually anywhere where China isn't given 100% praise and congratulation"Where is the proof of this wild accusation?"...insults towards ALL British people... because I find your comments are starting to affect my perception of Chinese people"Time and again. Tell me exactly what I said here about British is not true?If telling truth affects your perception of Chinese people, I really can't help.In terms of "oversensitive", try poking a bull one thousand times before giving him a pat.You just can't see how your media abuse the power of their propaganda machine, can you?You British have now and then debates of your own on how your media can mislead the public opinions, just think of all those phone-in scandals, which even Children-in-need can't be exempt from.Yet when it comes to China, you'll just agree whatever your media do. Sat 09 Aug 2008 22:31:35 GMT+1 Michael32bc This post and the responses are amusing to say the least. The British cynicism is very obvious. As is the Chinese sensitivity and almost funny innocence of the public which is confused about why people would protest against them (censorship at it's finest.)I enjoyed this magical display of Chinese history and culture. It was an awesome show and I appreciate immensely how much the Chinese are going out of their way to make sure the games are enjoyable. They have come a long way recently, after having their individuality crushed by the cultural revolution not so long ago.I also appreciate their patriotism/nationalism. People get on our behinds all the time about being so nationalistic/patriotic. It's a youthful spirit that may not always seem appropriate but it's much more enjoyable. The British are too cynical at times.Michael, Charleston, USA Sat 09 Aug 2008 22:27:46 GMT+1 villadarte One World - One Dream was the main theme. But I feel sorry that another important message during the opening ceremony was not presented clearly enough to all man kind. It was HARMONY, which was the Chinese character repeatedly presented during the scene of Printing invention. Harmony is simply the core value of Chinese culture for thousand of years. It also means PEACE, COOPERATIVE, BONDING, BALANCE, EQUAL.The PEACE message was somehow repeated during the scene of pigeon of peace, which can be understood apparently, in a Westernize fashion. But it lost the deep cultural touch of Chinese core value.HARMONY was the only character being chosen in the presentation (except the countdown) and it was a pity that it can only be understood by those who can read Chinese.I can understand British sense of humor and it is just an example of cultural difference we all shall learn to accept. But consistent bias is not going to lead us closer towards harmonic world after all. Sat 09 Aug 2008 22:17:08 GMT+1 Vaughan_the_Prawn bitterblogger, I've read your posts here and on other blogs (actually anywhere where China isn't given 100% praise and congratulation) and wanted to say I find them disappointing.I've been to China many times, have a great respect for the Chinese people (the ordinary people not necessarily the ruling class) and have always found them to be friendly, intelligent and polite. I'm fortunate to count several Chinese amongst my friends.I too found Tom's comments overly negative, but that's the point of any 'free' media, you get a range of opinions and disagree with many of them. For example, I have to avoid reading the Guardian as it makes me angry! But I don't think your disagreement with Tom's comments deserve your insults towards ALL British people, they have gone too far, particularly from someone who apparently lives here. As you can see we're quite good at slagging ourselves off without any help.I'm now actually hoping you're just a CCCP govt stooge in an office somewhere, because I find your comments are starting to affect my perception of Chinese people, and I'm concerned that others on here will also think that all Chinese people are this bitter and oversensitive. Sat 09 Aug 2008 21:58:11 GMT+1 ToranDell I have to say that I enjoyed watching the opening ceremony and I understand, as others have mentioned, that this is China wanting to make a statement to the world. I think we must understand and respect that whilst at the same time not compromising our values. For those that think this is just sport and not a political event - well, I think you are wrong. But let us remember that the sporting event is short lived and the political stuff goes on. Have all those people who are now being critical of the political issues been saying that before the Olympics? Or will they continue after? I wonder. Despite that though, I think we should congratulate China on what they have achieved so far and work with them to help improve things for their country and all of us for the future.Like others, I also feel uncomfortable about some of the "conflicting messages" (e.g. being environmentally friendly when pollution is high in China and talking about one world when human rights should be much better in China). However, as other people have said, I am not sure that we in the UK (and the Western world) can always hold our heads up as being without fault. And whilst, in a world and in a country (China) where there a lot of poverty, spending the millions of pounds that have been spent is also something I have problems with, I also think it would be a sad world if we did not have events like the Olympics or spectacular opening ceremonies like we saw yesterday.As for the comments made by Tom, I doubt whether they are made with any sense of jealousy. They could well have been made a bit "tongue in cheek". However, I must admit that I found them a little too negative. Too much of journalism and reporting these days is about finding fault rather than celebrating the positives. I feel this is becoming too much a feature of British culture and one that I hope will not cloud our preparations for the 2012 Olympics. I want those to also be spectacular and perhaps help to restore a bit of British pride and positivity. They don't need to compete with China or anyone else. They just need to celebrate the good things about Britain. Perhaps Tom and all of us could help do our bit to achieve that.PS. And, yes, I am a UK citizen and BBC license payer! Sat 09 Aug 2008 21:44:13 GMT+1 bitterblogger "If you don't share the same views as Tom or any of the other bloggers, don't complain about it. Find one you like and enjoy it. He is using freedom of speech...".In other words, we should just all shut up (to your disapointment, we won't) and let you QUIETLY enjoy your exclusive freedom of speech here.How ironic, the same bunch just can't bear us having the same luxury of quietly enjoying a sports event. Sat 09 Aug 2008 21:06:28 GMT+1 guucancat it's a pity that you missed the most brilliant part of the opening ceremony.You just felt weird ,gooood....The first part of ceremony was totally introducing Chinese culture, but you didn't mention it at all, I guess you know nothing about eastern culture so you skip it? ... you are so focused on politics is it because of the lack of your knowlegde...the comment you have done is nothing new, come on...give us more fresh things!!not just repeat the politicians who have already done in go to China with your own cage. Sat 09 Aug 2008 21:02:01 GMT+1 bitterblogger "Perhaps Bitterblogger can enlighten us on the subject, ie apparent censorship"It's really laughable to read comments like this.You just can't help automatically assuming that anyone who doesn't like your ways has to be a supporter of whatever the Chinese government does. Sat 09 Aug 2008 21:01:00 GMT+1 twinhonnisoit Just a word on the sad case of bighullaballo, that egregious member of the Caledonian lunatic fringe. Why doesn't he follow the King of Spain's excellent "advice" to Hugo Chavez and just shut up. Sat 09 Aug 2008 20:12:51 GMT+1 twinhonnisoit It's interesting to learn that Tom Fordyce is having difficulty accessing this site. Perhaps Bitterblogger can enlighten us on the subject, ie apparent censorship.In the meanwhile, his own access, albeit a tad overused, is starting to assume the proportions of, shall we say, a certain opening ceremony in a rather closed country. Sat 09 Aug 2008 20:08:28 GMT+1 willy-ylliw Some people take things too seriously and very often approach them from the wrong angle. I've read Tom Fordyce's (and Ben Dirs etc) blogs for ages and thoroughly enjoy them all. Rugby World Cup, Wimbledon, various football tourneys.This is because I share the same sense of humour and (most) opinions as Tom. The same goes for the people I call my friends. My point being that we are all different and that some things affect or appeal to us in different ways and we tend to associate with people that react in the same way. If you don't share the same views as Tom or any of the other bloggers, don't complain about it. Find one you like and enjoy it. He is using freedom of speech, something which is sadly losing it's place in the modern world.Sarah Brightman's chops were definitely moon shaped!!Great job, Tom. Keep them coming. Sat 09 Aug 2008 20:00:11 GMT+1 corry2403 amethystlilly, hope you don't mind me asking but where are you from? Sat 09 Aug 2008 19:57:01 GMT+1 amethystlilly YES. spectacular, explosive ,unforgettable.Well, I suppose, the opening ceremony is very important because that it will express the Chinese kulture and history to all of us who are strange to China, their wonders. That is the meaning for the Olymipcs, opening a way between us, smiling, that is a spellbinding appeal of Sport, people around world can walk heartbeat by heartbeat, hand by hand, smiling to each other, forgeting the war and so on. "You had hundreds of years brutally plungering other countries with your cannons and warships to build the fundation of your capitalism. You are doing so even now in Iraq."England polluted air for years ago. Why should China take the whole blame? When USA tried to deliver battle by the name of Oil, now, it was all over , but shall we not take more care about people who are still living in hunger, who can just let the Other country decide what kind of country their own country will look like. Politics in China may have not the same system as we have, but most of the Chinese, they are pound of their own country, they are trying to improve themselve, and their country. We turely need to support them and believe them, but what we have done yet?Acrid, discriminational, unkindWhy can't we just be kind to others? I believe if we do that, the whole world will be a real big family without querimony and indignation.Like the Chinese said ONE WORLD, ONE DREAM. Sat 09 Aug 2008 19:52:54 GMT+1 corry2403 I accept your apology Bitter but maybe you should consider your words carefully before posting. Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:59:03 GMT+1 mrireland Perhaps I am out of touch after being involved for 48 yrs with games, but these opening ceremonies are a mystery to me.Granted Los Angelos with those grand pianos Gershwyns Rhapsody in Blue was a bit much but all those geometric conundrums at these games make no real sense in an Olympic setting, More like an LSD overdose prescribed by Prof Timothy O'Leary. Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:57:10 GMT+1 bitterblogger @corry2403My appologies if that post offended you. I guess it's just I have heard too much ranting on your so called health and safety regulations or unions in China, and didn't have too much thought before commenting. Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:52:47 GMT+1 corry2403 Lol..."brutally plungering other countries" great mental image that one, works on so many levels ;-) Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:50:03 GMT+1 Portnawak So China is building itself as a nation in order to have a better future for its children.I can't really criticise that ambition, but do the ends really justify the means?Does the sole route to prosperity really trample all over human rights? Is China really forced, for example, to aid the Sudanese in Darfour?And if we let China continue without criticism are we to rely on the governing bodies to suddenly introduce and enforce human rights legislation at a later date? Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:48:46 GMT+1 corry2403 My father, at the age of 49, a very decent, hard working man suffered directly from the "mass exodus" of our manufacturing industry, as did millions of others in working class communities. The result was long term unemployment and the kind of social conditions that Bitter seems to enjoy pointing out. After six years of trying he finally found work again, never gave up, and Bitter refers to our "laziness".Makes my blood boil. Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:36:27 GMT+1 bitterblogger "As you rightly stated, had the workers in these states been better protected socially the mass exodus of British companies would have been limited."Yeah so how else would you expect us to become as developed as you are?You had hundreds of years brutally plungering other countries with your cannons and warships to build the fundation of your capitalism. You are doing so even now in Iraq.Can we now simply invade others and get whatever we want without sacrificing the welfare of our own people?Look at how post-war Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong have achieved today's prosperity. China is simply treading they footpath.We have no technology, no market shares, no equipments. All we have is cheap labour and the willingness to take less holidays, less sleeps, more pollution, more illness, more dangers just to attract anything requred to develop our economy so that our children won't need to suffer what we do today.Difficult to understand for your Brits? We Chinese can sacrifice everything for our children, can you? Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:35:13 GMT+1 Portnawak #156 was completely absurd.Either this guy is really trying to wind people up or he's totally deluded. Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:33:03 GMT+1 corry2403 Thanks Portna, I was referring to Bitter translating my "overseas" to his "China". I'd only been mildly irritated up to that point but that comment (#156) went too far.I appreciate your erudite and factually correct post! ;-) Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:26:11 GMT+1 Portnawak sui generis, corry2403You didn't mention China but following the path of the conversation I came to my own conclusion. I did this because I felt that Bitterblogger hadn't fully understood your comment and I wanted to make it clearer as he'd made a monumental error.Industry has relocated itself to many countries because of the very facts you state, which can be summed up simply as 'moving to cheap labour markets', and this has nothing to do with laziness on behalf of British workers nor Chinese diligence.As you rightly stated, had the workers in these states been better protected socially the mass exodus of British companies would have been limited. Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:20:44 GMT+1 corry2403 I'm not accusing you, you plainly have. Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:14:32 GMT+1 corry2403 I'm referring to comment #156 by the way Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:13:53 GMT+1 corry2403 You know nothing Bitter, you think you do but you don't, that last comment has particularly angered me because it is a slur, a nasty one, I had to resort to one in turn out of frustration at your ignorance and lack of a decent argument. Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:13:09 GMT+1 bitterblogger "lol..what a daft argument, we all know EVERYTHING is "Made in China", except the rarer "Made in Taiwan" stuff, obviously."So convenient, isn't it?Of course there are always alternatives. But not what you can afford, right?So you bend your moral high grounds to have a living, but accuse me of criticising British while being here? Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:12:04 GMT+1 corry2403 I didn't mention China, unless 'overseas' now means China? Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:11:38 GMT+1 Portnawak #156 is the craziest argument I have ever read.What on earth has the lack of health and safety regulations and workers unions in China got to do with Chinese diligence? Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:10:10 GMT+1 corry2403 God, you're a waste of a keyboard, seriously. Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:09:55 GMT+1 bitterblogger "Well, maybe if all the industry hadn't gone overseas to take advantage of cheap labour markets unburdened by health and safety regulations or unions then maybe there wouldn't be poor areas like the one described. I know, I come from one."Right, so blame the poverty on Chinese diligence rather than your own laziness. Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:06:55 GMT+1 corry2403 Once again you've ducked the question, well done. Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:05:30 GMT+1 corry2403 lol..what a daft argument, we all know EVERYTHING is "Made in China", except the rarer "Made in Taiwan" stuff, obviously. Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:04:21 GMT+1 bitterblogger "If you are so horrified by British culture then it begs the question, why are you there?"You're so horrifed by Chinese human rights, then it begs the question, why are you still using anything made in China at all? Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:00:09 GMT+1 corry2403 "Shall I list all my posts not allowed on BBC HYS?"I can understand why your comments weren't published if the previous examples here are anything to go by.If China didn't have human rights issues or the stigma of Tibet then no-one would mention it, the reports are simply reflecting that there are protests about those subjects and that people have reservations about appearing to turn a blind eye to them. Sat 09 Aug 2008 18:00:01 GMT+1 Portnawak The BBC's blocking of your posts is hardly evidence of anti-chinese bias is it?Unless you are China. Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:57:56 GMT+1 corry2403 Well, maybe if all the industry hadn't gone overseas to take advantage of cheap labour markets unburdened by health and safety regulations or unions then maybe there wouldn't be poor areas like the one described. I know, I come from one.If you are so horrified by British culture then it begs the question, why are you there? Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:55:56 GMT+1 Portnawak Ah, you mean state benefits made available to each member of society regardless of their social status.You put things like that in place to help the needy, some people will always take advantage but it's hardly evil is it? Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:55:05 GMT+1 bitterblogger "So where are the examples of anti Chinese bias from the BBC that I asked you to provide earlier to support your accusations?"Shall I list all my posts not allowed on BBC HYS?Shall I count for you how many of those Beijing Olympics related BBC reports without a mention of human rights or Tibet?If I talk to you with every sentence appended by a condemnation, what would be your reaction? Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:53:56 GMT+1 bitterblogger "state sponsored culture of teenage pregnancy"Just show you one of the comments given by British on BBC:"As my wife is a high school teacher in a poor part of this city, I know first hand that these kids who get pregnant early do not even consider getting a job. Why, when they can get all the benefits? Their parents have never worked either. No career, no worries of future, no reason not to get pregnant. As simple at that. Jan, Edinburgh, UK" Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:45:03 GMT+1 corry2403 Bitter, #145, your response doesn't relate to the quote, kind of undermines your attempt at debating the're very good at sidestepping what you can't or won't answer. Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:42:38 GMT+1 bitterblogger "if I was to behave towards the Chinese the way you have here towards the British I'm sure you'd be pretty outraged."Did I ever try to defend China's track records on human rights or anything on this blog? Check again on #97. Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:35:39 GMT+1 bighullabaloo #142 AllenAtlanta - thanks, I've been putting a lot of hours in on my stand-up material and it's nice to know it kills at least some of the people some of the time. Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:31:17 GMT+1 corry2403 Well Hulla, I'll reserve my judgment until 2012. I personally hope the ceremony will be fantastic as it will represent Britain, British sportspeople and the British populace. Like I said earlier, the ceremony yesterday was incredible and they should be justly proud, we can't realistically hope to match the resources or finances the Chinese could throw at theirs. Don't forget, the organising and design of the opening ceremony was an international effort in the true sense of the Olympics. Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:27:17 GMT+1 AllenAtlanta TO: bighullabalooMy mistake ... not your last post, but #133. I had tears in my eyes from laughing and could not see clearly. Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:26:08 GMT+1 AllenAtlanta TO: bighullabalooI almost fell out of my chair laughing at your last post! Now that's humor! Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:23:45 GMT+1 Portnawak Have any of you actually read the article hullaballoo, bitterblogger?You seem to have simply latched onto this site and are now using it to spout racist, ignorant and obnoxious drivel at everyone.If you don't like England, keep away. It's as simple as that."state sponsored culture of teenage pregnancy"Where on earth do you fools dig this bile up from? Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:22:22 GMT+1 bighullabaloo corry - you don't have to take my word for it.Just watch - Sir Seb will be on the rack on the "Andrew Marr" show tomorrow morning over what he's going to come up with to top that in 2012.Why would they do that? Because they just can't live with the idea that another country can come up with something that makes them look like amateur hour. Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:21:25 GMT+1 corry2403 So where are the examples of anti Chinese bias from the BBC that I asked you to provide earlier to support your accusations?I don't deny Britain has it's problems, every culture has. I already gave you the examples of racist remarks, if I was to behave towards the Chinese the way you have here towards the British I'm sure you'd be pretty outraged.If you want to talk about Afghanistan may I just ask, whatever happened to that bloke in front of the tanks in Tienanmen square? A true Chinese hero.Killed by the authorities - 2,000–3,000 (Chinese student associations and Chinese Red Cross). How many are still in prison? Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:15:03 GMT+1 bighullabaloo corry2403 They've aleady got Sir Ian McKellan pencilled in as "Lord Cardigan" and hired 300 extras to be the army of evil Orcs. Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:14:16 GMT+1 corry2403 ...with the last man riding, mortally wounded, dismounting his horse, crawling up the stairs to the olympic cauldron and lighting it, heroically, just as he draws his last breath. That would get the old lump in the throat going. Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:05:27 GMT+1 bitterblogger "leeches, drunks, teenage mums, incompetent graduates, cynical politicians, bigoted commentators, kills in Afganistan, funny little nation, uneducated British"Leeches on your welfare system, the state sponsored culture of teenage pregancy, drunks rampaging every town centre in the nights, graduates without basic competency in literacy...How many of you can speak a second language? How many have you killed in Afganistan?Where do I get all these facts? From your own media, BBC especially.So where is the racist remarks? Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:05:03 GMT+1 corry2403 Lol...maybe a re-enactment of The Charge of The Light Brigade, but with a happy ending ;-) Sat 09 Aug 2008 17:02:38 GMT+1 bighullabaloo corry2403 - there's one thing I can tell you for sure: after that spectacular show in Beijing you can be sure that the sh*t hit the fan when Sir Seb arrived at London 2012 HQ for an emergency "planning meeting" this morning.He's already cancelled "Elton John sings the Queen Mum's wartime favourites" and crossed off the "Middle England Extreme Morris Dancing Troupe" in a fit of blind panic as he ranted at staff: "What the hell are we supposed to do to top that???!!" Sat 09 Aug 2008 16:58:45 GMT+1 corry2403 Hulla, I'm just not a fan of generalising, it's a dangerous business. We've all witnessed what you're talking about but I wouldn't attribute that mindset to an entire populace. Tom is just as likely to take the P out of the English cricket teams efforts, probably more so. For example. Sat 09 Aug 2008 16:54:40 GMT+1 corry2403 Some Bitterisms..."BTW, chances are I probably pay much more British tax than most of you ordianry Brits in here. considering how many of you moaners have never worked a decent job for one day.""But who knows what the UK would be like in another 4 years? More moaners, more leeches, more drunks, more teenager mums, more incompetent graduates, more cynical politicians, more bigoted commentators, more kills in Afganistan?""What can you do but moan or bury yourself in your narrow mindset?Britan is just such a funny little nation!""Typical narrow-minded, uneducated British""That's probably why so many here are so narrow minded."You just can't be bothered to know they others think or do."Need I say more? Sat 09 Aug 2008 16:51:08 GMT+1 bighullabaloo You've got to admit, corry, this article just reeks of green cheese and put downs from a smug English tw*t.There are plenty of people here who can see that and they aren't Chinese - in fact they might well be English.Sick to death of this seeing EBC types looking down their noses and scoffing at other people's hard work - especially when it was clearly a breathtakingly imaginative and surprising spectacle - typical of what the Chinese can produce. I lived in a 95% Chinese dominated country for four years and I know.Fed up seeing the tired old lie that this mean-spirited sarcasm is in fact "England's uniquel sense of humour" and that anyone who doesn't share it is somehow unable to take it joke. It's a load of elitist bs.Such sneering is the weapon of choice for people who haven't got the guts to come out and openly admit how they really feel about some other country doing something better than they fear their own country could ever do.That's what's at the core of Fordyce's "sarcasm" - it reflects the increasingly insecure mindset of a country that knows it's sliding towards the last death throes of an unsustatinable position of privilege. Sat 09 Aug 2008 16:43:43 GMT+1 corry2403 Um, I think posting has been disabled? Sat 09 Aug 2008 16:43:32 GMT+1 corry2403 Lol Hulla! Sat 09 Aug 2008 16:27:54 GMT+1 bitterblogger "rather racist remarks "I thought British pulbic were the most disguested by their politicians' PC rubbish.Or maybe you are on the other side?I beg your pardon what exactly I said about British people are not true and can be regarded as racist remarks? Sat 09 Aug 2008 16:27:24 GMT+1 corry2403 fair enough Hulla, if that's how you feel. I'm just stating that as a Scot my view differs from yours, just so all the English reading this are aware that we're not all full of bile towards them. Sat 09 Aug 2008 16:27:15 GMT+1 bighullabaloo #124 corry2403"a series of nasty, offensive and rather racist remarks"That's no way to describe Fordyce's article.Er, is. Sat 09 Aug 2008 16:26:01 GMT+1 corry2403 I'm asking you to stop ranting because you've made a series of nasty, offensive and rather racist remarks against the people of Britain. I therefore have a right to request that you stop doing so as it is rude and ill mannered.Thank you. Sat 09 Aug 2008 16:23:40 GMT+1 bighullabaloo #120 corry2403I achieved what I wanted to - to make sure any Chinese people reading this are aware that the sneering, condescending, English bs they're seeing is just par for the course whenever anyone does anything that challenges the idea that they've got a God-given right to be the "winners" at everything. I've done this all my life and am not going to stop for you or anyone else - especially not since we're now seeing the desired results. Sat 09 Aug 2008 16:20:10 GMT+1 bitterblogger "...Now, stop you're nasty ranting please."And who exactly are you to tell others to do anything? Sat 09 Aug 2008 16:17:23 GMT+1 bitterblogger "We British are a very self deprecating bunch..."Refreshing. Sat 09 Aug 2008 16:15:26 GMT+1 corry2403 Oh and BigHullabaloo, you're not doing us Scots any favours either.Ta Sat 09 Aug 2008 16:05:28 GMT+1 corry2403 BitterBlogger,Can you provide some examples of your wildly inaccurate accusations about anti Chinese bias by the BBC? I suggest you're maybe feeling a little fevered and unbalanced yourself.I personally was blown away by the ceremony and appreciate that the majority of the Chinese population no doubt felt proud of their country's efforts. I also appreciate Tom's right to personal opinion and our right to read it without some wild eyed conspiracy theorist ranting nonsense in the comments section, you sound like you're on the cusp of going postal.On a sadder note I just read on an Australian website that a couple of American tourists were attacked by a Chinese man in Beijing, sadly one of them died. Perhaps a false story leaked by the evil BBC to tarnish the image of the games?In fact maybe we should all just march down to White City and burn the place down...will that help?We British are a very self deprecating bunch, yes we have our flaws but we're also very good at taking the P out of ourselves, we'll no doubt partake in that particularly British 'sport' when it's our turn to host the games. Now, stop you're nasty ranting please. Sat 09 Aug 2008 16:04:21 GMT+1