Comments for en-gb 30 Tue 16 Sep 2014 10:43:38 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at chivalrousmichelle American Power must to live on Universal message of Peace. The Peacebuilding is an important point for the balance of all.Sir Marco Pizzorno an important peacebuilder, International Humanitarian Law Istructor, professor,author... of Our days says that all things can to become better if we start to make better our mind, our life. Sir Marco Pizzorno is a genius, a peace fighter to diffusion of knowledge of human and humanitarian law for all The only way to make all better is to change our style to think. We must to have more attention of little things.So America will change all things." Changing the style" . Tue 03 Feb 2009 01:30:30 GMT+1 Cwadsgo This post has been Removed Mon 02 Feb 2009 00:42:17 GMT+1 lochraven #60 britis_hit"I don't, quite honestly, know whether to laugh or cry. I think I shall just hoot with derision instead."And you do it very well and with such glee--sick You should find yourself a hobby and stay out of trouble. Fri 30 Jan 2009 11:52:46 GMT+1 freeclench Naah, the one-line paragraph that got Mr. Webb all worked up is, basically, nonsense.Check out the CIA World Factbook (via Wikipedia) on population growth: US is hovering at a replacement rate, on a par with England, China, Australia, France, Spain, and the lowlands.Russia, most of Europe, and South Africa are dwindling.Latin America and India are growing at a good clip.But Africa and the Middle East through Arabia -- are exploding.The future is Muslim.-FCps - The reason portions of America has a population curve similar to a third-world country is that portions of America are kept in third-world conditions. We're not like you Europeans. We let the poor starve. Wed 28 Jan 2009 19:12:08 GMT+1 Martijn "Al-Quaeda is the organisation that uses the poorly educated, easily indoctrinated youth as its footsoldiers. "As a matter of fact many Al Qaeda members are highly trained professionals, starting with Osama bin Laden himself. But is is easier to assume that its followers are 'poorly educated' or 'easily indoctrinated'. 'Easily alienated' wouild be a better word maybe, but whose fault is that? Tue 27 Jan 2009 13:50:55 GMT+1 Martijn democraticOath, as a "caucasian" (a meaningless adjective at best) I feel slightly racially abused by your post. It is true that white men have perpertrated many a crime over the centuries. That the USA was based not only on a Constitution which promised freedom for all but also on genocide and slavery is a painful fact that America hasn't really come to terms with yet. But don't forget that western culture is also the first in history that is actually capable of reflecting on its own shortcomings in a more or less objective manner. That is why we have been able to make any social progress at all over the last two centuries, however slow and painful the process may have been. Long live the scientific method! Now let's finally start to apply it to economics, because what they teach as the "science" of economics in universities is not scientific at all, merely an attempt at statistical justification of ideological beliefs. And it has been seriously holding us back for too long. Tue 27 Jan 2009 13:28:42 GMT+1 Martijn "Except I cannot think of any civilization which has persisted without being able to regulate the influx of alien cultures. Failure to be able to control the rate at which members of the alien culture arrive so that they can be assimilated will just as surely see the destruction of the civilization as if it atrophy, which seems to be Toynbee's view of how civilizations peter out."Maybe as we are all on the way to one kind of "world civilization" or another this whole point is irrelevant. The fact that all of us are having this discussion makes our time different from all that went before. Lack of understanding stems mainly from lack of communication. At least in theory we are now more able to communicate than ever. At many more levels, too. We Europeans may sometimes disagree with some of the more irrational aspects of American life and vice versa, but the fact that we discuss them, forces us to think about them to come up with a response in the discussion. Which is never a bad thing. Tue 27 Jan 2009 12:40:45 GMT+1 Martijn "The economic and societal damage done by those wars (which were not of their own making) made maintaining the empire impossible."Saying those wars were not of Britain's own making rather oversimplifies a very complicated polticial situation. One might argue that the first world war was caused by imperial ambitions of the continental states of Europe. Those ambitions were heavily fuelled by Britain acquiring an empire in the first place and not really caring what anybody else thought about it though. Tue 27 Jan 2009 12:01:26 GMT+1 Martijn "Turning a blind eye to the movement of large numbers of people across our borders, who do not share our culture, seeking to better their lot will not do us any favors."If you want ot stray into ancient history, these migrations were not caused by the irresistable attraction of Rome, but by events in the countries where these people were coming from. Agreed, the Romans couldn't do much about the wave of belligerent horsemen from Asia that set that whole course of events in motion. The same is happening today. These people are not really coming to the USA because they love America so much, but because the conditions in their own countries are so miserable. Their misery has actually probably largely been caused by the totally unwarranted faith in unregulated free markets to bring propserity to large numbers of people worldwide. Unlike the ancient Romans though the USA has the potential to influence these factors. Starting a worldwide education program would be a start, guaranteeing good and free education to all children, no matter how poor or depraved their parents are. Tue 27 Jan 2009 11:54:34 GMT+1 Martijn "It wouldn't hurt us to cut the Democracy spreading crap out for a while as well...when our Democracy is perfect, then we can lecture others on how to improve theirs!!"Hear, hear. That goes for Western Europe as well. Tue 27 Jan 2009 11:42:13 GMT+1 Martijn "We're the first superpower not to have imperial aspirations."That what they taught you in school? American imperialism is different from the European imperialism that went before, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. See my previous post. Tue 27 Jan 2009 11:40:00 GMT+1 Martijn "Like the Great Depression though, the US has a unique opportunity to come out greater than ever before, as a force for good, and as a force for change."Let me remind you that in the end it took the Second World War to get out of the great depression. Let's hope we can find a somwhat saner solution this time. Also it is questionable if the USA came out of that whole series of events as "a force for good." All too often the lofty ideals the US government claimed to defend went out the window in the confusion of the Cold War. I wouldn't want to count the numbber of people who have been tortured and murdered in Latin America to defend 'freedom' against 'communism' (the latter often nothing more than the desire of a particular people to decide its own political destiny instead of the one the USA had in mind for them, as in Chile.) From that perspective the American rhetoric has too often sounded hollow and cynical. Let's hope Obama can leave that arrogance behind him. Tue 27 Jan 2009 11:37:21 GMT+1 Martijn With regard to 'freedom' and 'democracy' the USA has always taken the moral high ground. Unfortnately its foreign policy has often been in cynical contradiction to these values. Maybe as the USA loses (or gives up) its economic and military dominance it can start to concentrate on setting the rest of the world a good example. It is time to realize that on the long road to true freedom and democracy, even the USA is only halfway there. In America all men are equal, they say. But that is a lie. There can be no real equality among men and women without some form of social and economic equality. Free market capitalism must go for humanity to progress. Tue 27 Jan 2009 11:26:48 GMT+1 democraticOath Most certainly, America’s power lives on; but not in any shape or quality associated with the hate-driven racism expressed in 99.6% of the posts in this forum. Do you Caucasians ever think of the American residents of your colonial encampments, nations like United States, Mexico and Canada? The racism inherent in the use of "American" and "Indian" by colonials to describe themselves and the people they have criminally displaced is obvious. The fact that many Americans pumped out of colonial schools call themselves Indians only further enhances your confusion about who you are. For the European occupier seeking a quick bank fix, I can only advise all that you know India in the coming century will do far more to line your pockets than the U.S. with none of the headache. But please ... please do not leave it at that and abandon North America.The problem is not simply a contemporaneous set of incorrect assumptions that might not matter so much if the speaker isn't thinking about what is being said. Comparing Obama and the U.S. war machine to Hitler is nonsensical. The U.S. has criminally occupied the Americas and assaulted Americans and their property for six centuries. That assault includes the genocide of 18 million and mass incarceration that makes Hitler an amateur. Now that colony from hell is colonizing. The extent to which the parent and other siblings are assisting her to colonize is an unknown, but given the reflective nature of psychosis any involvement only compounds global human misery. Due to the increasing irrelevance of U.S. policy to parent Europe's logistic interests, around the globe European interests are increasingly poorly serviced. Yes, the U.S. is exporting its own brand of terror, but she is also suffering a cultural psychosis that has demonstrated in human settlement for at least 5 million years. What is cultural psychosis?At University one of our assignments was to find a survivable colonized population (a population removed from its original Earth environment and resettled in a new environment) with that resettlement taking less than 10,000 years. There are none. Population that has survived into a transition phase (prolonged redefining development) is the only survivable human adaptation. If you want to find a survivable Caucasian population, you have North Central and Eastern Russia and Scandinavia, or for secure Asian populations look to China, India, the Asian Steppes and parts of the Americas not totally ransacked by Caucasian criminals. Migration involves transition, colonization involves occupation. Static or static transitioned cultures are survivable. Criminal occupation is always terminal. From the lab, it is easy to isolate, define and label social sickness in a way that is useful to a world wishing to understand and help. Survivable populations coexist with their environments in a peaceful relationship with other cultures, and naturally, with their environments. Colonization is disruptive, conflicting, and highly destructive of resource.Hitler was exploiting a Caucasian movement. In this epoch of human settlement, Caucasians are the population group most prone to propelling destructive colonial exploitation. The only connection between Hitler and Obama is that they are both expressing Caucasian colonization. That is a powerful connection, but its environment is not survivable. It is not a thing you can look at and say, “Look at that colapsing block of states over there! To avoid that we can do this, this, and this.” Psychosis defines a lonely end.We use the term cultural psychosis to define this violent colonizing behavior, because it is both reflective and dynamic in its inevitable progress to self termination. For an understanding of reflective aspects of cultural psychosis, observe the hysterical distortions of community tearing Africa apart - destruction of Africa was augmented and likely ignited by slavery, which ultimately may make meaningful resolution impossible. Or observe Japan, thankfully grounded and returned to a healthy existence. For an example of the dynamic demonstration of cultural psychosis, read this post paying special attention to the U.S. attack on Palestine and the United Nations using it’s Israel colony, a reflective occupation.The excessive prevalence of this terminal illness in the relatively young Caucasian population has a parallel in health care. We call it FAS or fetal alcohol syndrome. The suffering individual is hyperactive and disorganized from neonatal through to adult life. Survival even past the neonatal stage demands intensive intervention.In behavioral science, we use the term cultural psychosis to describe the organic (deeply rooted) appearance of a cultural group as it prepares, launches and vanishes in a short hyper aggressive flurry. The suffering culture, in this case the United States, is actively colonizing and poorly focused on internal and external objectives, unable to create and manage peaceful relations. Like the FAS adult, the U.S. is more likely to criminally assault or needlessly disrupt every national entity it associates with. In a clinical healthcare context, the suffering child culture needs to be immediately contained and treated. In the international context, the sick nation has lethally assaulted the United Nations. However, dismal that may seem, extend your creative imagination. The United States is one of dozens of colonies effected by Caucasian colonization beginning in the 1500's. Now that you understand the global environment that the U.S. culture is feeding on and feeding into, imagine being victimized by it. Now imagine watching it collapse and tearing apart your resource as it goes. Was global colonization a boo-boo?Assuming the lack of visible response to date to the destruction and murder of UN property and people, there is an international incapacity. The U.S. will continue incrementing toward a violent end. However, there is a window of opportunity. India is the textbook solution. Retract the colony and diversify the econopolitical interests through indigenous infrastructure. If this cannot be done for the U.S. colony, it will perish, and without exception an extensive and large chuck of occupying, reflective, and occupied Earth population will vanish with it. That is life in this corner of the Milky Way.What is culture?Those who wish for anything more romantic and cozy in the current 'civilized' direction, try sit on the steps of the White House and hum mantras. If you can sit and hum without being arrested or shot, and if anything peaceful happens, let us know. It is comforting that real care exists. Care is an aspect of survivable culture too. For those who think ignorance is the way out, without treatment, psychosis reaches a point where life ends. It is sometimes a treatable illness. Action must be taken. How do we fix a culture?One must admire Russian restraint within the Caucasian homelands. Naturally, being born of the not yet resolved Caucasian urge to colonization, the U.S. is almost certain to disappear in a most unpleasant and violent circumstance. This is sad. Especially for the millions of Americans who have suffered U.S. administration for so many centuries. Today, their core surviving populations are crowded into tiny impoverished reservations without access to justice to resolve the criminal occupation impacting their lives and culture.Many, many more live outside reservations and are their indigenous aspirations and identity are ignored by governments that work to strip them of “Indian” status and conscript them to serve the colonial machine. They are forced to view themselves as Caucasians to survive.I had always hoped occupying nations would appreciate and work to bolster and develop cultural resource: evidently I was misguided as far as North America is concerned. For example, internationally Canada exhibits the same colonial imperative as the U.S., and yet at home its concept of culture is as fine art, or “Indian” reservation community centers. Personally, my American instinct does not include the urge to intervene in any way, when and where the assaults on the U.S. resume. Given a life-long U.S. intelligence association, that adjustment will hurt my soul. But that child has gone too far to correct itself in this environment. Helping would be like pouring gasoline down the throat of an alcoholic. For a better understanding of reckless Caucasian colonization, intelligently read Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy. Their writings describe very clearly the psychosis entangling today's Caucasian empire. Yes, they both use the term psychosis to describe the issue. For all of us not involved, wisdom says hands off is the most rational and healthy approach to life. So, what is life in a criminal colonial jurisdiction like?Where did that colonial administration put our abducted children? Ah, you are beginning to understand. I guess I've posted enough here for now. It is time to try and reach some old acquaintances in need of love and prayer. June last year two senior women seated in a government building were assaulted by armed Canadian Customs Officers and put into intensive care. One of them has thankfully survived and was just released to her home after months of pumps, tubes and bare walls. Enjoy your forum.Try to avoid armed Caucasians in our Americas. They might not be wearing the right pair of eye glasses, and in any case are behaviorally challenged.Love as always, an American who understands Tue 27 Jan 2009 10:35:22 GMT+1 democraticOath (in a better world...)Is anyone in this forum aware that American and Indian are racist terms?(let's express that a little louder so people with sore eyeballs won't miss it)IS ANYONE IN THIS FORUM AWARE THAT "AMERICAN" AND "INDIAN" ARE RACIST TERMS. Tue 27 Jan 2009 07:40:56 GMT+1 timewaitsfornoman nessie1945"What a beautiful place, eh?" Well done! Perfect placement of "eh?" You will fit right in. Sat 24 Jan 2009 16:07:23 GMT+1 everyoneiscrazy As for the Irish issue the famine was only one of the many, many injustices perpetrated against the irish by the english. The steady, mechanical erosion of the use of our language and our religion punishible by death if caught is another genocidical measure taken against us.However it was a long time ago and as such it shouldn't be forgotten but neither should it have any modern relevance. I.e. get over it!also, and i'm not trying to spark anything here but it is entirely possible that the freedom fighthers and founding fathers of america would have been seen as rebelious, treasonous and if the term had been coined back then terrorists. It was with the IRB (precurser to the IRA) where it's general Michael collins, most wanted man in the empire at the time waqs aluded as a freedom fighter by the Irish (still is) and as a traitor and a terrorist at the time by the english. Sat 24 Jan 2009 13:51:46 GMT+1 everyoneiscrazy Re 161.Catholic Priests do not tell their congregations who to vote for and anyone who believes so probably has not bothered to sit through a full homily.Not a lie but not the tructh either. As a former catholic in that messed up bastion of the religion, Ireland, i have seen and heard with my own eyes, as well as accounts from others that priests will indicate a definite preference for one candidate over an other and in some extreme cases instruct good catholics not to vote for certain people.So you are right they won't tell you who to vote for but the sure have no problem telling you who not to vote for. Sat 24 Jan 2009 13:43:23 GMT+1 Cassandra Dear timewaits, I love Canada - except for the whole seal massacre thing. What a beautiful place, eh? Sat 24 Jan 2009 03:02:17 GMT+1 Cassandra As the article says, "Yet there are reasons for optimism: Barack Obama's presidency could usher in an era of renewed American global leadership."Yes. We will rebuild. Better. Stronger. Faster.*It'll take a bit more than Six Million Dollar(s), man, but with intelligent leadership, we'll get there.*For any lucky person who's kids didn't sit raptly through the old Six Million Dollar Man series, the words won't evoke the old days but the idea remains. We shall overcome. Sat 24 Jan 2009 03:00:35 GMT+1 timewaitsfornoman 213 robloopI do not worry about what others think of Canada because it is what I think that is important to me. (Harper out in the world is becoming a concern though.) Hearing a compliment from an outsider (even if we have to 'fish' for one) is meaningful to us as we believe we are often worthy of praise. Our inferiority complex comes from living next door to the States. Other than Mexico (different for obvious reasons), there is no one else in the world who lives a similar experience. We are the younger sibling shouting, "Look at me, look at me!" When no one bothers to turn around, we survive and carry on.I am fiercely proud of being Canadian. I can now sleep more soundly at night knowing you are keeping an eye on our human rights issues and will gladly point out to us the error of our ways. Although we will not guarantee to resolve them to your satisfaction we do appreciate your concern. You seem to be a proponent of negative attention and given a choice, we prefer positive. But... at least you're paying attention!!216 chronophobeI had already read the article and was heartened to hear the reasons for his reversal on the invasion of Iraq. I found his explanation believable. Since I was not in the market for a warmonger, I became more positive about him becoming leader. Wed 14 Jan 2009 04:42:14 GMT+1 robloop 216 Chronophobe Thanks, I read both links, the last too quickly, so I'll run off and read again. There is no doubting his intellectual credentials, but the question is whether it is better suited to teaching and writing than political leadership. My impression thus far is that he is wired for the former, but not for the latter. He writes interestingly, referring to what others have said, Edmund Burke among others, but will he over-analyze and dither when confronted by an issue or an emergency - when he doesn't have someone else's wit or wisdom upon which to call? I wish I could recall an event I read about a year or two back when he came across as just sadly indecisive. I'm not trying to be hard on the man, but in all honesty he has not appeared to possess the qualities of a good, decisive, political leader in a Reagan or Thatcher mold, with strong convictions. I'm not saying you had to like them or their policies, but they mostly knew where they were going and my impression is that he is not certain. The less influenced by Bob Rae he was, or is, the better! Wed 14 Jan 2009 03:41:22 GMT+1 chronophobe Try, try again. re 208 deceiler, 210 timewaitsnot:If you like, you can read his mea culpa for the poor judgment on Iraq in the NY Timeshere. It's a good piece, and gives a taste of his style of thinking and rhetoric. A sample, if I may:I made some of these mistakes and then a few of my own. The lesson I draw for the future is to be less influenced by the passions of people I admire — Iraqi exiles, for example — and to be less swayed by my emotions. I went to northern Iraq in 1992. I saw what Saddam Hussein did to the Kurds. From that moment forward, I believed he had to go. My convictions had all the authority of personal experience, but for that very reason, I let emotion carry me past the hard questions, like: Can Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites hold together in peace what Saddam Hussein held together by terror? I should have known that emotions in politics, as in life, tend to be self-justifying and in matters of ultimate political judgment, nothing, not even your own feelings, should be held immune from the burden of justification through cross-examination and argument. Yours,Canadian PinkoPS, Robloop, this is the link. First try the quote was too long, I guess. Wed 14 Jan 2009 02:47:28 GMT+1 chronophobe re: 209 Robloop Evidently Ignatief should have remained a writer and a lecturer.That's a bit glib. I think it is quite reasonable to question how the talents of an academic will translate into the skills needed by a politician, but I certainly wouldn't dismiss Ignatieff's potential out of hand. Read, if you will, the NYT piece linked to above, where he addresses this issue (and the questions of principle, decisiveness, and leadership with which you are also concered) at some length. Then tell me what you think.Yours,Canadian Pinko Wed 14 Jan 2009 01:45:49 GMT+1 chronophobe This post has been Removed Wed 14 Jan 2009 01:34:09 GMT+1 robloop 212 timewaitsfornoman Thanks for your warm invitation to join you, and for your 'generous' spirit. Not a good time of the year for Quebec unless happy to freeze my tail! I've been to Quebec City on three occasions, once during the winter carnavale. Fun, scenic, interesting city, but, like John Keats's 'St Agnes Eve', "bitter chill it was"! I'm going to stop teasing you. Canadians make themselves vulnerable by worrying about what other's think of their country. Often after five minutes there you're asked what you think of the country. I know Canada well, have travelled it widely, once on my own drove from Vancouver to Montreal, and am a UBC graduate. So in all honesty I didn't make sweeping statements. The H.R. Commissions are the pain I described - and thanks for giving me a good chuckle over your comments about 'appreciating my "concern for democracy in Canada". Tue 13 Jan 2009 23:06:27 GMT+1 timewaitsfornoman 211 robloopI did not say, "Keep out of our affairs." But instead, "Move to Canada if you wish to influence our politics." A totally different statement. I invited you to join. Although why I would be so generous to someone who comes across as a Conservative voter, I do not know. A generosity of spirit perhaps! Why should you be denied the right to freeze through the winter along with the rest of us.I said nothing about George Bush that would equate with your statements regarding Jean Chretien and Michael Ignatieff. As I recall I only stated a fact. I do not feel it is my place to be openly critical of another country's democratically elected leader. What I say in the privacy of my own home is a different matter. I do believe I have a right to complain that he had a negative impact on US Canadian relations. This led to a rise of Anti-Americanism (Bush-ism) in Canada which is not healthy and I lay the blame on his doorstep. Since his actions affected the world, I believe we are all entitled to an opinion. Should you wish to criticize Harper on his lack of concern for the environment which affects the world - (maybe even your part of it) I would completely understand and agree.You make such wide sweeping statements. But I do appreciate your concern for democracy in Canada. Tue 13 Jan 2009 18:09:19 GMT+1 robloop 210 timewaitsfornoman Now, now, your last paragraph 'sounded' downright testy. And you are wrong about me supporting "anyone - just as long as they are Conservative", but it seems that you would support a Liberal that way. Another thing, you don't mind commenting on things in another country, not least George Bush, so in fairness be prepared to accept comments about your own country. I will say that democracy is more than a vote and 'producing a leader who the country supports', it also means protecting freedoms, such as freedom of speech and freedom to hold differing and opposing views, something that Canada's Human Rights Commissions, increasingly, do not permit, and about which Canada's political leaders do nothing, Harper included. Maybe his party will force his hand, but you can almost count on a Liberal leader doing nothing about it. About this, yes, I read about the Mark Stein/MacLean's magazine fight and victory over these petty tyrants of the Human Rights Commissions. A good victory, but a circumstance that does not bode well for Canadian democracy. Tue 13 Jan 2009 17:08:13 GMT+1 timewaitsfornoman 208 dceilar"still supports the invasion of Iraq." No he does not. Although whether he was sincere or saying so for political gain, I do not know. I prefer to believe him.203 robloop"a man who displays no decision-making ability and no real leadership qualities" Harper may have the qualities you list, but he is leading Canada down a path the majority of us do not want to go. It is my right in a democracy, which I firmly believe in, to support an opposing view.I am a Liberal. Why would I not want the Liberal Party to be the government? If they can produce a Leader that the country (House of Commons) supports - he leads. That is democracy.Also since you seem to be well informed about Canada, Harper's negative comments about some of his fellow Canadians is not the mark of a good leader. It sounds to me that you are the one who would support anyone - just as long as they are Conservative. And, in your country you may do so. Move to Canada if you wish to influence our politics. Tue 13 Jan 2009 15:35:16 GMT+1 robloop 207 chronophobe Evidently Ignatief should have remained a writer and a lecturer. 203 timewaitsfornoman Why on earth would you want Ignatief, a man who displays no decision-making ability and no real leadership qualities, to oust Harper? Is this just because Harper is a'conservative' - of sorts - and leader of the Conservative Party which you don't like, or is it a case of the old Canadian Liberal Party attitude that 'we are the ruling party' and even if a complete dope, our guy is best? Can you imagine, in a democracy, a party actually being so arrogant as to regard itself 'the ruling party'! Just think about it.It ain't pretty. Tue 13 Jan 2009 14:50:06 GMT+1 dceilar #207 PinkoWe'll give him a chance then. I wonder if he still supports the invasion of Iraq. Tue 13 Jan 2009 11:18:25 GMT+1 chronophobe Picking up the fag end, again, but ...About Ignatieff,I honestly have never paid much attention to his TV presence, which maybe I should have, seeing as he is now trying to be elected. I know him as a writer, and as a lecturer. In both those formats he is displays a powerful, supple intellect, and a great deal of compassion. I hope he can translate those qualities into the political arena.BTW, he is no intellectual poseur or wanna be. Check out his bibliography.Yours,Canadian Pinko Tue 13 Jan 2009 02:34:40 GMT+1 happylaze 198 no you didn't. because nothing to see cannot be averted from;)to our northern brethren and sisternAnd I don't care about Dion as long as she does not sing;) Mon 12 Jan 2009 18:20:52 GMT+1 happylaze 201 Floridian with good ethicswell said.Especially that bit about an embargo.Though Mostly Erroneous will probably tell you how america will survive better than others, because we are americans and that is good enough because they are all fools and not very smart. because if it comes down to it they are all no as gifted as they would be if they were from america by chance.especially if they happen to be him.He has Issues with France cause they kicked him out, and when he went to Canada they were rude to him(surprise surprise)so no one in Canada can do anything right either.But his heart is in the wrong place so forgive him. Mon 12 Jan 2009 18:10:13 GMT+1 timewaitsfornoman 201 floridaRoberto62 Oh boy! Those are some pretty strong views. Not that I totally disagree, but...I'm presuming you live in Florida. Perhaps you should investigate emigration for the sake of your health. There are still some fairly peaceful places to live in this world.Or maybe you are working hard to make some changes in America. In that case I applaud you. You have a long row to hoe. Have your blood pressure checked regularly to make sure you are around to see them. I mean that sincerely. Mon 12 Jan 2009 17:50:41 GMT+1 timewaitsfornoman 202 dceilarThen you know more about him than I do. All I ask is that he oust Harper. The oration part we can deal with later!He didn't happen to give any hints on what he would do as a PM did he? As far as I know he doesn't drink as much as Hitchens so that's a point in his favour. His ability to speak Russian might come in handy - or not. We will wait to have Putin make up our minds about that. Whatever he says will be our opinion on the topic!And what were you doing watching the Late Show? Mon 12 Jan 2009 17:21:38 GMT+1 dceilar #195 Robloop#196 TimeI know him through the 'Late Show' (an arts TV programme for arty farties on the BBC), and his column in the Independent newspaper. He's arrogant enough to actually believe he can take on professional orators at their own game. I remember Christopher Hitchens trying the same thing in a debate with 'Gorgeous' George Galloway. You may not agree with the latter's politics, but he's a professional orator (one of the best imo) and he beat the hack hands down. Mon 12 Jan 2009 16:59:52 GMT+1 Roberto Carlos Alvarez-Galloso If the USA wants to be a dominant superpower, it should practice what it preaches. The US Elite of Republicans and Democrats are busy propping dictators such as Castro and Chavez as well as promoting genocide against the people of Gaza, Iraq, and Afghanistan.The US Elite cannot talk about freedom and democracy when they repress the Libertarians and Greens inside America. The US Elite cannot talk about freedom and democracy and promote a lifestyle which is detrimental to the world.The US Elite cannot talk about immigration when Ramos and Compean [two immigration officials arrested for doing their job] do not receive a Presidential Pardon.The world should attempt an embargo against the USA unless it changes its ways when it comes to human rights. Mon 12 Jan 2009 16:37:47 GMT+1 happylaze All of the veneration of Mary has come from tradition rather than what is in the New Testament.True The catholic church is a lot earlier than the Protestant Church which was reacting to Catholics. Where as the Catholics were up against some pretty powerful Gods out there and the Mother was one if not the Biggest. So realising where they were, they decided to include the Mother in worship, broaden the base and make this new religion acceptable . The Protestant Church gave no credence to the Mother and still do not in terms of worship. They allow women to worship a man but not a man to worship a woman .Just seems sexist in a way.As does not allowing women priests in the catholic church.I as would be interested i reading what Mary magdalen wrote (bethpa).And suspect it is true that she was silenced,as others were.There are always negatives with all religions it seems and as such i try to look for the good bits. As a religion I am sure the bad bits are totally man created.U Unitarians seem to have a decent handle on religion. Mon 12 Jan 2009 16:24:41 GMT+1 timewaitsfornoman 197 happylazeIn my ignorance that is what I believe. Do you think "Machiavellian" is going too far? Mon 12 Jan 2009 16:18:12 GMT+1 dceilar #197 Happyand there was absolutely no agreement between Iran and Reagent, what so ever , in fact this post did not happen.And I didn't read it. I averted my eyes! Mon 12 Jan 2009 16:15:02 GMT+1 happylaze 185. At 00:25am on 12 Jan 2009, robloop wrote:174 timewaitafornomanIranian preference for Reagan over Carter had nothing to do with them releasing the Americans hostages. They simply recognized that a well-meaning, vacant-eyed, gutless wonder had been president of the U.S. for four years and Reagan would hammer them one way or another if they didn't release the hostages.and there was absolutely no agreement between Iran and Reagent, what so ever , in fact this post did not happen. Mon 12 Jan 2009 15:48:30 GMT+1 timewaitsfornoman 193/4 robloop dceilarI am not a supporter of Jack Layton and the NDP nor have I formed an opinion about Michael Ignatieff. I believe him to be sincere but time will tell. It bothers me that Stephen Harper is out in the world speaking on behalf of Canadians as if he has majority support for his views on how Canada should be "changed." He does not. Therefore I prefer he not be our representative to welcome President Obama to our frozen shores.Millions of Americans must feel the same way about George Bush. They have my sympathy as they had to endure him for eight years. The majority are probably unaware of how slighted Canadians were. And to what purpose? If he had followed tradition the official visit would have been well out of the way before 911 and this would not have happened. We invited our new neighbour over for a cup of tea and he declined the offer. It was not a good start to the relationship.I could not resist the jab about knowing all Canadians in response to your tirade about Jean Chretien. You appear more upset about him than I am about Harper. Mon 12 Jan 2009 15:36:55 GMT+1 robloop 193 timewaitsfornoman Your blog name is quite good. It's something my mom used to say to my late wife who, while a good person, often had an approach of 'Tomorrow's another day'. Just before I get shot down in flames, yes I know that Jack Layton was not in Ottawa when Bush sent troops into Iraq, but I referred to his NDP doughbrains. 194 Dceilar To be honest I don't know what Ignatief's voice sounds like, but re his intellectual smugness I believe you are right - and your view of the position of his head also sounds about right! Just imagine his reaction to a crisis, he'd be like a chicken without a head! Worst of all is his not being able to make up his mind about where he stands on issues. It seems to depend on what will serve him best, which tells you he doesn't have strong 'convictions' about most things - or anything. Mon 12 Jan 2009 13:24:40 GMT+1 dceilar #186 Chrono#193 RobloopSorry Pinko, I can't stand Michael Ignatief either. He strikes me as intellectually smug with his head up his backside. I hope you like the sound of his voice because he does. Mon 12 Jan 2009 09:45:38 GMT+1 robloop 188 timewaitsfornoman Actually, regardless of how I sometimes appear, I'm not the "angry person" you think, and get a good laugh from many blogs whether I agree with the sentiments or not. But I can be blunt. As I recall, it was not only Canada's refusal to participate in Iraq and the threat of protests that decided against Bush's visit to Ottawa, it was also thought that he would not get a courteous reception in parliament, not least from Jack Layton's mob. I saw Bethpa's comment about Bush encouraging Israel to attack Gaza and took it with a grain of salt, because I don't believe Israel needed any U.S urging to respond to rockets and mortars attacks that had gone on for months. I'm not and wouldn't dispute your right to dislike Harper. I'm not so sure I'd disagree with you, but your problem right now is that you don't have anyone in the wing who is better material. Okay, I won't use the word "startling" and rather use "remarkable" - but it makes no difference, you don't have anyone in waiting who even nearly meets that description. And please, have you forgotten so quickly? Chretien was a shabby excuse for a Canadian P.M. Come on now, it's silly to ask if I know every Canadian. I know enough and the country enough, to know its good side as well as the bad, and the fact is that it has a dearth of leadership. 187 For Chronophobe's sake right here, I will add that Ignatief is a sad sack option - pathetic! I've read and heard enough to know that he is an indecisive clot with pliable 'principles' - if he truly has any! Be truthful now, Stephane Dion is only shortly gone and the Liberals are in a bad way if Ignatief is the only joker they can scrounge up. They are also badly in debt. Mon 12 Jan 2009 04:57:57 GMT+1 timewaitsfornoman 190 chronophobe"Harper is doing so well in Ont.!" You will have to work on that.Just as long as he doesn't make a major mistake, it will. You know this is a very liberal Province. We probably have Harper to thank for the reversal. French Quebecers were very insulted and English very angered by his remarks.I'm off - nite! Mon 12 Jan 2009 04:46:16 GMT+1 british-ish 187.chronophobe wrote:"re: 185 robloop Do try to keep up, dear Sir. Stephan Dion is long gone. Michael Ignatieff is the next PM apparent."Oh good. We know him here from late night arts programmes on the telly, not politics, though. (It is the same guy, isn't it?)Hope he doesn't fall victim to dirty tricks, though, as intellectuals in politics are often prone to. Harper doesn't seem like a very nice guy to me. Mon 12 Jan 2009 04:43:42 GMT+1 chronophobe Sorry about the double post above. I was fighting with the HTML parser, and didn't know it. timewaits,I hope the Iggy love in Quebec lasts. I'm surprised that Harper is doing so well in Ont.!Cheers,Canadian Pinko Mon 12 Jan 2009 04:23:14 GMT+1 timewaitsfornoman 186 chronophobeWent to your link. Don't ya just love Quebecers? Of which I am one - maybe even startling - I'll have to ask around. Mon 12 Jan 2009 03:53:58 GMT+1 timewaitsfornoman 185 robloopYou come across as such an angry person. Americans have got the monopoly on "ridiculing" (your word) Bush as is their right. If you are referring to my comment that Bush broke with tradition, he did and it was an insult to the Canada. We did not let it bother us. When he threatened to cancel his official visit because we refused to go to Iraq, our fingers were crossed that he would as we were concerned about the reception he would receive here. He did. Thousands protesting his visit is not something we wanted the world to see. I only stated a fact.Generally American Presidents, Republican or Democrat are extremely warmly welcomed. They are our friends and neighbours and do not normally resort to threatening us! I do not believe it was a coincidence nor that the Iranians were "running scared" after the election of Ronald Reagan. Where is the resident Iran expert to offer an opinion? You made no comment on Bethpa's, "I think Bush encouraged Israel to attack in the Gaza." That is more troubling then something that happened close to thirty years ago.I do not like PM Harper as is my right as a Canadian. He does not represent my values. I'm not sure what you have against Jean Chrétien. Nor do I know what "shady dealings" you are talking about. I can assure you he would never have been impeached. Canadians had many opportunities to vote him out of office. We declined the offer for over ten years. PM Chrétien and Finance Minister Martin pulled Canada out of the downward spiral that eight years of Mulroney had left us in."Canada hasn't got anyone who is startling." I take it then that you personally know every Canadian. That means you must know me but do not consider me startling! Or what about chronophobe? Not startling? Mon 12 Jan 2009 03:38:50 GMT+1 chronophobe re: 185 robloop Do try to keep up, dear Sir. Stephan Dion is long gone. Michael Ignatieff is the next PM apparent. Needless to say, I'm thrilled about the prospect of him as the next PM. Yours,Canadian Pinko Mon 12 Jan 2009 03:35:13 GMT+1 chronophobe re: 185 robloop Do try to keep up, dear Sir. Stephan Dion is long gone. Michael Ignatieff is the next PM apparent. Dare I suggest you're not gonna like him? I hope I'm wrong. Needless to say, I'm thrilled about the prospect of him as the next PM. Yours,Canadian Pinko Mon 12 Jan 2009 03:34:38 GMT+1 robloop 174 timewaitafornoman Iranian preference for Reagan over Carter had nothing to do with them releasing the Americans hostages. They simply recognized that a well-meaning, vacant-eyed, gutless wonder had been president of the U.S. for four years and Reagan would hammer them one way or another if they didn't release the hostages.Who "more accurately represents Canada" right now? A useless twit like Jack Layton, or the totally inept Stephane Dion? Right now Canada hasn't got anyone who is startling. And as much as Canadians like to ridicule Bush, the country has had its share of pure crud as leader, in recent years not least the totally unprincipled P.M. Jean Chretien, a total stranger to the truth who specialized in making some remarkably stupid statements and reneged on promises. Had he been an American president he would have been impeached for his shady dealings, but in Canada with it lack of checks on the conduct of those in power he got away with his general dishonesty, mis-use of public funds among other things. Talk about 'pork'! And talk about low-life in power, he made an artform of it! Mon 12 Jan 2009 00:25:48 GMT+1 chronophobe happyjack,Never, ever, ever could I mistake Timmmmaaaayy (I forgot the "mmm" previously) for Tim in Ohio. Chalk and cheese, as WMA would say. Spork and Spam would be Timmmaaay and, say, RWBennet and the like. Cheers,Canadian Pinko Sun 11 Jan 2009 21:26:07 GMT+1 happylaze 182177last checked there was timmmaaayyy.rabid anti anti american.and then there is the reasoned and very sensible replies from our Tim in ohio.177 You are Timmaaayyy .Sorry I should know. Sun 11 Jan 2009 19:25:03 GMT+1 chronophobe re: 177 TimaaayAh! Apparently my observations and responses have left their mark if you have to warn the same poster with patronizing remarks about me twice!Regarding my repetitiveness, that was sloppy of me. Sorry. As to my patronizing remarks, I think I may have mistaken you for another poster who cries "anti-American" at every chance, but seems to have a better sense of humour about it. Or maybe not. It's hard to tell the difference between Spork and Spam. Now, as to your rant against Bethpa, in 166, it is just rubbish. Why shouldn't she be able to question the source of the anthrax without you jumping up and down and accusing her of being "anti-American?" Are you in possession of some evidence that al-Queda is indeed the source of the attack? Enquiring minds want to know. Yours,Canadian Pinko Sun 11 Jan 2009 16:35:02 GMT+1 RomeStu 142 bethpa wrote:"Not everyone who supported the IRA was a terrorist...It seems possible for organizations that start out with terrorist factions to move over into being political and losing their terrorist origins.(The British mistreated the Irish during the famines.)"Of course you are correct that not all IRA supporters were terrorists. I never said that. Many catholics supported the IRA in principle and many protestants supported the protestant para-military groups (who were also terrorists).People who supported the AIMS of the IRA (united Ireland) were not terrorists. Anyone who supported it financially or practically was funding or abetting terrorism.You actually make my point for me in a way, since I have consistently stated that through dialogue and education will advances be made in Israel/Palestine and on a broader scale with the muslim world in general, as was eventually the case in Northern Ireland.To use an example from the Irish situation, once the British Government stopped using internment, and talks began, then the popular support for terrorist acts declined as most normal people saw further violence as counter-productive.Most people wanted peace .... and I believe that this is also the case in other situations worldwide. It is the ignorance, misinformation and fundamentalist dogma (on both sides) that we must fight ... not regress to this "eye for an eye" or "he started it" reactionary posturing that is causing so much grief today. Sun 11 Jan 2009 13:47:25 GMT+1 british-ish 177 TimothyR444 wrote:"I am hardly a regular. I haven't been here in five weeks."Ah. You may have missed something. See below."There should be room for my views in your world."But not for squirrels'? (Who, by the way have responded in another thread.) Sun 11 Jan 2009 07:08:02 GMT+1 happylaze 151 Bethpa that was what I was getting at.148 I was recognising the catholic recognition of the Mother.Bit of a pagan if anything.;) Sun 11 Jan 2009 06:41:16 GMT+1 british-ish 161. BienvenueEnLouisiana wrote:"Might it all possibly be ancient propaganda from the founder of the Church of England who broke from the Catholic Church so he could divorce and murder his many wives"I think Luther and Calvin may have had rather more to do with the "ancient propaganda" (500 years is ancient?) as you term it."The point is, this old world topic is unfit for a discussion about America where, for the most part, this issue has been resolved."It has? Politics seems to be getting mixed up with religion an awful lot more in the New World than the Old; and btw, Henry VIII's actions in the old one had nothing much to do with religion and a lot to do with politics, and not that much changed in the forms of observance until Edward VI. Sun 11 Jan 2009 06:19:29 GMT+1 TimothyR444 chronophobe:Oh, don't worry too much about Timaaay. He is a regular who works his standard anti-American line at every opportunity. After you've seen it 3 times it's actually quite funny. Ah! Apparently my observations and responses have left their mark if you have to warn the same poster with patronizing remarks about me twice! I am hardly a regular. I haven't been here in five weeks.There should be room for my views in your world. The world is larger than the politically correct status quo. Sun 11 Jan 2009 06:03:37 GMT+1 TimothyR444 chronophobe:"Don't be alarmed by Timaaaay R444. He is a one trick pony, and gets his kicks by calling all and sundry out on some sort of "anti-American" charge. Make him laugh, and he might go away. "Not likely, pinko. But you can hope.Someone has to interfere with the excruciating political correctness of so many of these conversations and provide a different view.And oh yes, I do indeed call anti-Americanism what it is, however unpleasant that may be. Sun 11 Jan 2009 05:59:21 GMT+1 chronophobe Bethpa,Oh, don't worry too much about Timaaay. He is a regular who works his standard anti-American line at every opportunity. After you've seen it 3 times it's actually quite funny. As to the rest, the good news is, I guess, that Mr. Felt felt (ha ha) it his duty to reveal the dirty deeds of your corrupt President. Nixon was disgraced, and one major contributor to his downfall was an FBI agent, who was able to talk to a free press. This gives me some hope.Now, if you want to be outraged and disgusted by things that are happening in the USA right now, have a look at this. Very disturbing footage of a young black man being shot, for no good reason, by BART security personnel. Is this making the national news down there? Not a word of it here. Yours,Canadian Pinko Sun 11 Jan 2009 04:04:06 GMT+1 timewaitsfornoman 173 bethpa"I think Bush encouraged Israel to attack in the Gaza." I truly hope you are wrong. That is too sad and tragic to contemplate.What I always found very suspicious was the release of the Americans from the Tehran Embassy on (I believe) the same day as Reagan's inauguration. I find it hard to believe that the Iranians preferred Reagan over Carter.I see on the CBC that Obama's first foreign visit will be to Canada. This is an American/Canadian tradition that was broken by Bush when he instead first went to Mexico. As the majority of us are not fond of our PM perhaps we will have time to replace him before Mr. Obama arrives. Someone who more accurately represents Canada. We live in hope. Sun 11 Jan 2009 04:03:12 GMT+1 bethpa chronophobeThe fear is that people like him are in positions of power in the FBI. Anyone who questions them is anti American. America..the filled with weird people with all kinds of hidden agendas...And Bush has been manipulating the balance in government between the different groups towards the more conservative elements in America. Some of these people are very strange.This is rarely reported in the news ..but more information is coming out about Nixon and Johnson . Johnson thought Nixon was a traitor for encouraging North Vietnam to reject peace talks that Nixon would win the election against Humphrey. Nixon promised the North Vietnamese a better deal with Nixon if they did not have peace talks until Nixon won."The latest LBJ tapes reinforced longtime allegations, this time voiced by Johnson himself, that Nixon in 1968 had committed "treason," by encouraging through an intermediary South Vietnam's 11th-hour rejection of negotiations at peace talks in Paris to end the Vietnam War.""The tapes recorded LBJ charging Nixon with interfering in the conduct of American foreign policy, by having word sent to the Saigon government leaders only days before the American election that they would get a better peace terms if they stayed away until Nixon won and became president."...................................................And I think Bush encouraged Israel to attack in the Gaza to make it more difficult for Obama. What a series of messes Bush has left behind..but I know that there will be Republicans who will blame Obama. These people are crazy...look at who they were willing to put in as vice president... Sarah Palin. And they are still talking about her as a leader for the Republican Party. Sun 11 Jan 2009 02:57:47 GMT+1 chronophobe Bethpa,Don't be alarmed by Timaaaay R444. He is a one trick pony, and gets his kicks by calling all and sundry out on some sort of "anti-American" charge. Make him laugh, and he might go away. Cheers,Canadian Pinko Sun 11 Jan 2009 02:02:13 GMT+1 ChangeOfState The only rational argument for a nation state's holding and using power is to guarantee the quality of life of its citizens. America's overzealous and wrong-headed projection of power in military terms has had the opposite effect. Arrogating to itself (or being manoeuvred by its cynical "friends" into) the role of Policeman of the World has driven it to bankruptcy and caused a catastrophic diminishing of its moral stature in the world. Because of the staggering costs associated with the role, this once mighty country has neglected the two things that would have increased its commonweal: building and maintaining a world class infrastructure (inclusive of a pristine natural environment) and nurturing its human capital through education, universal health care, etc. The sad effects of not having done so are there for all to see.It can only be hoped that, now that it's on the brink of bankruptcy, the US will see that it has lay down the World Policeman role. Specifically, it must walk away from its unlimited and no-longer-affordable security guarantees to Europe, Israel, Japan, South Korea, etc. If some in those countries argue that America must keep its promises, the only possible rejoinder is that the US can no longer afford to keep those promises. The jig is up and, in any event, those societies are per capita as prosperous as the US and, in some cases, even more prosperous.One can only hope that President Obama will realize that the days of Pax Americana are over. Let some other nation or that chimera the EU assume the role if it is eager and foolish enough to do so.Freed of this insupportable burden, the US can repatriate its dollars and spend them on itself for a change -- as its "client" states have been merrily doing for some time now. Sun 11 Jan 2009 01:51:23 GMT+1 SunshinePlus RE: #11 Andy FrostThe statement, "We don't have an empire" and we have not made an attempt at a "far flung empire", etc.The Pre-emptive Strike Resolution given solely to President Bush for what we now know was granted under false information provided by the administration, was an overt attempt at empire building. We have spent enough money in this "occupation" to bankrupt our Treasury and, unknown to the majority of the American citizens have constructed the largest most expensive Embassy compound in the world in Baghdad. Sun 11 Jan 2009 01:02:06 GMT+1 bethpa TimothyR444Well I am also born and bred in NY and I am the wife of a physicist. ..who is funded by the government and has worked at Los Alamos and Oak Ridge. And I am angry that the FBI went after a scientist with so little evidence!I doubt it was Al Queda because it was the Ames strain of anthrax..which means the anthrax was developed in AMERICA!!!!And I used the post office that was shut down in Princeton because of that anthrax. I know the people who worked there!!!! How dare you call me anti American!!!!! Who are you to say something like that? Sun 11 Jan 2009 00:54:32 GMT+1 bethpa"It is heartening to see many leaders in the Catholic Church starting to take a strong stand in holding elected officials who claim to be Catholic accountable for their public policy stances. And now we're seeing Catholic leaders starting to hold average parishioners accountable for how they exercise their vote."........................................People in the Catholic Church are interfering in political issues by telling parishioners that voting for Obama means you have to make a confession and do penance.The Catholic Church is heavily into politics and should lose its tax free status. Sun 11 Jan 2009 00:33:42 GMT+1 bethpa priest preaches vote NO on Prop 8 "Father Geoffrey Farrow of the Saint Paul Newman Center in northeast Fresno shocked parishioners Sunday morning when he came out against Proposition 8, an initiative that would eliminate the right for same sex couples to marry in California." Sun 11 Jan 2009 00:26:47 GMT+1 TimothyR444 "For a while Al Queda was blamed for the antrax attacks.Of course Al Queda is interested in attacking liberals in America (not)Who would be interested in attacking American liberals? (answer that imo and you will be led to the people behind the attack and its not foreigners)"This is a fantastically insulting and offensive post, and an example of anti-Americanism at its crudest. The terrible thing is that it is all done in the name of self-conscious "enlightened' thinking.The idea of defending Al Qaeda should repel any decent person. the idea that they are specifically targeting only conservative Americans is a bizarre fantasy. These weird conspiracy theories proliferate on the internet, and nothing can stop them. But as a New Yorker born and bred I can at least tell you how shocking it is to read this. Sun 11 Jan 2009 00:25:18 GMT+1 bethpa RomeStuWhen the leaders of a Christian religion concentrate on the passages of the Old Testament I think that says something about them...Christian theology from the New Testament easily is in support of pacifism. The Old Testament had many wars... Sun 11 Jan 2009 00:24:47 GMT+1 bethpa DavidIntelligence is a combination of environment and genes...imo..and can be encouraged or discouraged...The SAT tests abilities in areas that are learned n school..and are not IQ tests. Sun 11 Jan 2009 00:23:26 GMT+1 bethpa #161 BienvenueEn LouisianaSo many examples to chose from No communion for Obama supportersPriest says it's because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion""Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president," Newman wrote, referring to Obama by his full name, including his middle name of Hussein." Sun 11 Jan 2009 00:22:18 GMT+1 BienvenueEnLouisiana 158 on the New Testament.Yes, that is correct, but Jesus did not write any of it; the Apostles and many other later religious leaders wrote it down from oral traditions, then to Greek, then to Latin, etc. That is the reason for the two versions of the Creed and the fact that many gospels were left out of the original Bible. It is probable that much was lost in translation over time, but we make do with what we have. At least there are longstanding Rituals and Traditions to back it all up. Sat 10 Jan 2009 23:25:15 GMT+1 BienvenueEnLouisiana Again, on the Catholic issue, we are talking about America here, not the conflicts between Ireland and the UK. From some of these postings, it seems that it is not Catholics who are brainwashed, but it is some of you sad European Protestants who have been brainwashed to believe all the horror stories about Catholics that never happened or happened centuries ago. Yall are letting your bigotry get in the way of sound judgment. Let’s face some facts shall we. The Da Vinci Code is not real.Catholics do not aspire to topple the US gov.Catholics do not worship Mary, we ask her to be our wing man, if you will, when we pray to God/Jesus.Catholic Priests do not tell their congregations who to vote for and anyone who believes so probably has not bothered to sit through a full homily.And ask yourselves this question honestly, why is it that Catholics must water-down their beliefs to be accepted?Might it all possibly be ancient propaganda from the founder of the Church of England who broke from the Catholic Church so he could divorce and murder his many wives?The point is, this old world topic is unfit for a discussion about America where, for the most part, this issue has been resolved. And as for John Kerry, he lost because he stiff as a board and a New England Elitist, not because he was Catholic. Sat 10 Jan 2009 23:13:44 GMT+1 dceilar #159 DCCan intelligence really be developed? I would have thought it intrinsic.I always thought that intelligence, well IQ anyway, to be a false concept invented by others to convince the rest that they should rule. IMO it doesn't matter how much 'intelligence' one has, but what one does with it what counts. Sat 10 Jan 2009 23:04:20 GMT+1 David Cunard #157. bethpa: "a good basis for developing intelligence."Can intelligence really be developed? I would have thought it intrinsic. Sat 10 Jan 2009 22:28:24 GMT+1 RomeStu 157 bethpaInteresting point about "old Testament smiting" from the religious right.I was always lead to understand that (for Christians) Jesus brought a "New" testament with forgivness, other cheeks, meek inheriting stuff etc (possibly even cheesemakers. I was at the back and couldn't hear too well).Still perhaps it explains the support for Israel.... Sat 10 Jan 2009 21:54:52 GMT+1 bethpa #155 RomeStuI think they are afraid that if the US is not God fearing there will be doom.They like to refer to the Old Testament where God smote people for not being they try to stop anyone who is not Godly in their view.Some of the rights religious leaders at first said the World Trade Towers were struck because the US was allowing people to be ungodly ( by allowing homosexuality and abortion etc.) #156 DavidThe children are exposed to many ideas and asked to make decisions for themselves. That means they have to think and learn for themselves...a good basis for developing intelligence. There is no dogma in the Unitarian religion...there are principles based in humanism. Sat 10 Jan 2009 21:25:21 GMT+1 David Cunard #154. bethpa: "Unitarians have the highest SAT scores of any religious group. Our kids are smart : )"Perhaps it's their (Unitarian?) teachers who get the best out of them. Sat 10 Jan 2009 20:52:37 GMT+1 RomeStu 144 bethpa wrote:"RomeStuIts a shame they had to write in the word "probably". If they believe there is no God they should be able to say and advertise that." __________________I too think they should have omitted the word probably, but the atheists were maybe trying not to be "absolutist" in the way that many religious people are. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _you also write"Signs like that would create an uproar in the US. Those buses would be damaged in the South people who will say they are Christians..."This is very sad, but I agree is certainly true. Where's that tolerance? Or are their ideas so flimsy and weak that they bear no scrutiny or questionning? Sat 10 Jan 2009 20:48:22 GMT+1 bethpa #152 aquarizonagalYes they will cut Unitarians out of cross denominational church groups involving charity even. Unitarians accept agnostics and atheists and often have people who have left religions like Catholicism. Some ex priests and ex nuns become Unitarians. That freedom of thought and movement from a religion I suppose is a direct threat?Unitarians have the highest SAT scores of any religious group. Our kids are smart : ) Sat 10 Jan 2009 20:25:15 GMT+1 bethpa DavidI think there are parallels in all attempts to commit genocide...and people become understandably emotional when they believe their group has been targeted.I don't support terrorist groups at all... everbut I do think they come about as a response to a perceived threat...and that threat could be genocide..or it could be the threat of a destruction of one's culture or one's religion.Terrorist groups arise because of some problem..find the problem and solve it and you remove the reason for the terrorist group.(easy to write...hard to do) Sat 10 Jan 2009 19:53:03 GMT+1 aquarizonagal So many excellent posts and a really civil discussion!To#139BethpaI am also UU and one thing I have never understood is why we receive so much animosity for being accepting of all and not forcing our personal beliefs on others. Sat 10 Jan 2009 19:48:17 GMT+1 bethpa Hmmm....Many modern religions try to minimize the role of women. At least the Catholics show respect for motherhood. Its a big deal to give birth to the son of God.And personally I believe that Mary Magdalene had a very close relationship with Christ which was erased by men within the early Christian Church. She was a disciple.There was a Gospel of Mary ..and only a few pages have survived...but that gospel would give legitimacy to religious leadership by women... Sat 10 Jan 2009 19:47:19 GMT+1 robloop 129 happylaze "Which is it", you asked. After reading this posting I more clearly think there is a distinction between the combatants we face. Those caught on battlefields with a gun or having dropped their gun upon capture, are POWs even if not wearing a uniform and should be stuck in a POW camp where they remain until hostilities end. Those captured in homes and against whom there is clear evidence of conspiring should probably should be tried in court. But it seems that no one hard and fast rule can apply to combatants in this unusual conflict. And no, I don't consider it humane to whisk people away and then not inform their families. It's a thing that was common practice in the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe under communism, Chile under Pinochet, and what they still do in China, so not something we in the West should lower ourselves. Sat 10 Jan 2009 19:22:46 GMT+1 David Cunard #146. bethpa: "The famine in Ireland and its serious consequences of over one million dead where partially caused by governmental policies in Britain."Let's not start on the problems that have beset Ireland; there was prolonged discussion on the subject just awhile ago and it was resolved no better than those involving the Middle East. Religion seems bound to cause divisiveness and, although largely superstition, will continue to do so for many years, perhaps centuries, to come. Sat 10 Jan 2009 19:22:24 GMT+1 robloop 123 & 124 happylaze Your postings gave me a good deal of pleasure with their surprising honesty. However, there is one thing in 123 concerning which, probably invertantly, you are wrong. Re your Catholic upbringing, if you recognized wisdom in the teachings of that "wise old hippy, Jesus", you didn't believe "none of it", you believed 'some of it'. I'm not Catholic, but also consider many here unfairly anti-Catholic. Mistakes and all (not least abuse of young boys by perverts on whom I would happily employ the hangman's noose, or guillotine), it stands for something and embraces rules (such as moral absolutes) from which everyone can benefit. And you are right about Mary, there is "no Biblical basis whatsover". She wasn't deity, and even if a special woman, we humans can't just manufacture her as such and then elevate her above Jesus, but with some that seems to be the case. No offence intended to Catholics, but I believe that happylaze is right here. Sat 10 Jan 2009 18:57:49 GMT+1 bethpa RomeStuBeatrix Potter was a I guess so too was Peter Rabbit..My guess is that Obama has a respect for religion and realizes its central importance to so many. I believe that he is a humanist... and its unknown to me his relationship to God.( I'm not even sure how my relationship with God is going...much less someone else's : ) ) Sat 10 Jan 2009 18:47:08 GMT+1 bethpa The famine in Ireland and its serious consequences of over one million dead where partially caused by governmental policies in Britain."The famine is still a controversial event in Irish history. Debate and discussion on the British government's response to the failure of the potato crop in Ireland and the subsequent large-scale starvation, and whether or not this constituted genocide, remains a historically and politically-charged issue.""Clearly, during the years 1845 to 1850, the British government pursued a policy of mass starvation in Ireland with intent to destroy in substantial part the national, ethnic and racial group commonly known as the Irish People.... Therefore, during the years 1845 to 1850 the British government knowingly pursued a policy of mass starvation in Ireland that constituted acts of genocide against the Irish people within the meaning of Article II (c) of the 1948 [Hague] Genocide Convention."quote from Francis Boyle Sat 10 Jan 2009 18:45:29 GMT+1 happylaze The Pope opposed the Iraq war ..but the American bishops ignored that...I think there are anti Muslim feelings that are behind this love for war in the ME. "BethPA there are definitely anti muslim feelings at play. the whole of America was led to believe the "they are all jihadists "we see that here often.I generally think most of america's problems are self created and self ignored.their version of the catholic church being one.140 Stu in Rome. I have similar feelings and attitude to the IRA. As a Brit in the states who's father was a diplomat in the states. we were officially to check for bombs , change routes.I know the FBI did find one group in Idaho trying to get a plan together.I never saw them as freedom fighters and did not like the fact that they drilled kneecaps of teens for joyriding because it brought the police to the area or because someone sold some hash and wasn't on the right payrole. But here in the states they were seen as" freedom fighters.In terms of the atrocities committed by the brits they were wrong but compared to some downright modest. Sat 10 Jan 2009 18:13:28 GMT+1 bethpa RomeStuIts a shame they had to write in the word "probably". If they believe there is no God they should be able to say and advertise that.Signs like that would create an uproar in the US. Those buses would be damaged in the South people who will say they are Christians... Sat 10 Jan 2009 17:54:01 GMT+1 RomeStu 139 bethpaI didn't know what a Unitarian was, so I looked you up. I can see why the Catholics don't like you, or any of the other churches really. They're never fond of people who disagree with them.It saddens me also that so much was made of Obama's religion. Why do candidates have to profess some deep level of faith.As I've said before, I am an atheist, but I defend anyone's right to believe in anything. Not their right to respect for those beliefs, and not their right to impose them on other people.It would not surprise me if Obama is a secret atheist, who has been playing the game for years because that is how it has to be in the USA.Religious politicians tend to play emotive single issues - gay rigths, abortion etc. However if they did a bit more helping the poor and turning the other cheek perhaps the world would be different ... or at least less hypocritical. Sat 10 Jan 2009 17:42:33 GMT+1 bethpa RomeStuNot everyone who supported the IRA was a terrorist...It seems possible for organizations that start out with terrorist factions to move over into being political and losing their terrorist origins.(The British mistreated the Irish during the famines.) Sat 10 Jan 2009 17:38:56 GMT+1 RomeStu bethpa"If a church is involved with charitable activity and aids people ..then I can understand a tax free status as a charity...but once a church advocates for a political candidate that tax free status should be lost and not reinstated in the future. If its gone its gone."We basically agree.I would be ok with tax credits on provable charitable work - feeding the poor, shelters etc etc.However politics is more than who you vote for. It is policy as well.The other issue of why catholics are so disliked or distrusted is odd. To me all believers show themselves to credulous .... how much more unlikely is the catholic transubstantiation than the generally accepted christian ideas of Christ raising the dead or walking on water?I long for the day when reason wins.Oh and have you all seen the "Atheist Bus" adverts in Britain .... several complaints will lead the Advertising Standards Agency to rule on the existence of god .... laughable. Her's the link to cut and paste... Sat 10 Jan 2009 17:33:35 GMT+1 RomeStu bethpa"and the IRA has people in it who are terrorists imo.""imo" - it's not your opinion, it's a fact. The IRA was a terrorist organisation, that was heavily funded by a registered US charity called NorAid, whose stated aim was the creation of a 32 county nation of Ireland, following the 1916 proclamation.I've been in South Boston pubs in the late 80s and been encouraged to put a few bucks in a jar "for the boys". I left.That more than rankled (and still does) when I think of those murdered by the IRA.However the Irish situation is resolved now, after much patience and negotiation .... not by bombing bombing and more bombing. Sat 10 Jan 2009 17:17:46 GMT+1 bethpa RomeStuI'm a Unitarian..and Obama's grandmother was buried recently within the Unitarian Church. I'm almost afraid to write that because so much has been made of Obama's religion...and Unitarians are not liked by religious conservatives... Sat 10 Jan 2009 17:16:23 GMT+1