Comments for en-gb 30 Wed 06 May 2015 03:14:34 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at dennisjunior1 Justin:I think that he will be luke warm [not to warm or be cool]....--Dennis Junior-- Thu 25 Dec 2008 03:23:27 GMT+1 british-ish 50:Bill: Or suggest he (and McCain) listen to the BBC World Service Series on 'Is Al-Qaeda Winning'?Maybe they will all come round to the Brigadier's view eventually when they think it's publicly expedient or safe to say it. I hope Gates' attack was purely for domestic consumption or face-saving.The British were similarly attacked over their various attempts at finding solutions in Basra and the South (although the US has been doing something not that dissimilar in and around Baghdad.)I wouldn't have thought otherwise it's surely going to strain relations between the two countries. With friends like these . . . Wed 08 Oct 2008 10:02:23 GMT+1 BillTyrone 42. All_myYes I think it does..... the winning thing ?........ and desperate men......... frankly, its more than a concern. On this second meeting......... *that one* .... Mr * hair transplant*, a funny that wasnt', clearly lost ground........ Looking at the two performances my belief is that Sen Obamas was the more assured and delivered the better constructed answers. It was surely the more reassuring performance, in such heady times, for ordinary people now facing severe domestic pressures in the eye. On Foreign Policy and International Relations I say this on Afghanistan / Pakistan. I firmly believe the recent comments from Brig Mark Coleman - Smith, in theatre, and news of other possible Saudi brokered talks to be far closer to reality and a source for encouragment. That Sec Robert Gates has dismissed them as being defeatist is staggering and absolutely shows the one dimensional strategy that both he and Sen McCain share. Any successful formula in Afghanistan will be borne out of diplomacy, engagement and talks - not military action and *Victory* with a capital V. That said, and having already raised points on US x-border attacks across into Pakistan, the current policy of CIA remote attacks into the NW Pakistani regions and direct SF heliborne missions are undoubtedly doing far more to fuel the crisis and rank anti-americanism, strategically, than the snatching of any short term gains. On this aspect I would like to take BO out for a quiet drink and put a different view and alternative approach to him. In any event, I ask everyone this...... OBL actually genuinely resident in a cave in this region and / or even still alive? How sure can we all be that he / they haven't sown a beautifully simple, virtual seed of deception here? Just like one Radovan Karodzic, it it completely implausible that he might be flourishing very much closer to home...... maybe even working in lower Manhattan?If you were OBL, where wouldn't you be right now?Bill Wed 08 Oct 2008 04:39:30 GMT+1 meminmk Obama was cool. And calm. And collected. And frankly Presidential.McCain wasn't.McCain has lost. Wed 08 Oct 2008 03:31:37 GMT+1 drustwva Ronald Reagan gave us a city on a hill and W. gave us suburbs in foreclosure. McCain would probably do someting like provide us all with tents and camping gear but, unfortunately, our USA Platinum Card is all maxed out. In fairness to Mr. McCain, our current financial pickle makes the Keating Scandal look like a taco stand bankruptcy. Wed 08 Oct 2008 01:53:05 GMT+1 allmymarbles 43, british-ish."I think it's pathetic. Again."That is why I am not watching it. I will pick up the highlights, if any, tomorrow. Wed 08 Oct 2008 01:46:51 GMT+1 allmymarbles 42. My first sentence is confusing. It would read better like this:On the previous thread someone reported having followed the stump speech in Florida by Palin. Palin, who used every trick in the blook to smear Obama, was met with cries of "kill him." Wed 08 Oct 2008 01:43:49 GMT+1 gunsandreligion so far, just a lot of finger-pointing. I'm waitingfor Chicken Little to walk onto the stage andpoint out the obvious. Wed 08 Oct 2008 01:21:36 GMT+1 IndependentGuy I would like to add a few things that wouldn't be obvious from these insanely right-wing articles. I'm a social liberal and a fiscal conservative which means I understand where a social service becomes a burden and an economic strategy becomes a class war.A few things-First many of the programs that were intended to help the lower and middle class help afford these mortgages were left in the dust when they were traded in for Bush Jr's tax rebate which has been proven to only help the top 5% of this country. The cuts that were meant for the lower and middle class were given to the richest people in our society based on a percentage that really doesn't reflect a fair share contribution to our government in terms of actual dollars. Second, many State Republicans reigned in their own policies that killed many state institutions. These programs were designed to help keep wages current with the rate of inflation and housing, help keep social services like state and federal daycare, our education system (which is always talked about in terms of cost instead of quality or more importantly as long term investment- many people who are truly above the middle class send their kids to private school and don't understand how hard it is to get good education). Speaking of education, the state republicans also have reduced funding towards higher education like our universities and as such when most students graduate school they already have loans that are roughly the cost of a mortgage or even more. Even many Democrats do not understand these costs as they can afford to pay their child's bill right away and not suffer from $40,000 at 6.3% (roughly federal rate depending on consolidation costs, up to 10% or higher for most private loans of equal principal usually). This means about $500-$1000 and even up a monthly payment... even a well paying job at $17 per hour is hard to support with debt like that. So to sum that up... NO WONDER NOBODY CAN AFFORD A HOUSE...Also- its true that deregulation only paid a part but the mentality of the past years is that there are plenty of houses to be made and therefore plenty of realitors that are all fighting to convince anyone they can that they can afford a house. In fact it was part of their strategy to convince prospects to buy houses they could afford later.Look, I could go on but to say it was Clinton's fault is not nearly as fair as to say it was because of deregulation. At least Clinton wanted to help lower to middle class people which really is the oil and gears of our economy. Wed 08 Oct 2008 01:12:06 GMT+1 british-ish 5 minutes in, and if this is an example of their plans to solve the financial crisis, the audience ought to be allowed to boo and jeer both of them.Obviously, all we're going to hear are the slogans.No content, or at least not much that is at the moment at all realistic.All nice and comforting, though.I think it's pathetic. Again. Wed 08 Oct 2008 01:11:52 GMT+1 allmymarbles On a previous thread someone who had been following the stump speech in Florida by Palin, who used every trick in the blook to smear Obama, was met with cries of "kill him." Is this McCain's campaign? Does he look to stir up the racism that we all want to leave behind us? Does winning mean that much to him? This is not the sort of man we want for president. Wed 08 Oct 2008 00:54:07 GMT+1 british-ish 25 (AsaScot):Unless Obama comes out on stage wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt, gives a black power salute, and sets fire to the American flag for an encore. . .And McCain spins round, ends up wearing a pair of underpants over his tights and shouts "I saved you from the Masters of the Universe!" . . .Now that would liven things up nicely. Wed 08 Oct 2008 00:48:27 GMT+1 Cassandra "...organizers have banned the candidates from asking questions of the audience (a real Clinton trick) for fear that it all gets too sentimental and huggy for prime time."Too huggy? So maybe they can both grin like maniacs, wink a lot and try to rope the gullible with references to "Joe Six-pack."Don't just listen to what McCain says, LOOK at him. A vote for him puts Palin in direct line for the presidency. To see what she's really like, check out the You/Tube video of her speech to the secessionist AIP. Wed 08 Oct 2008 00:29:18 GMT+1 Cassandra "...organizers have banned the candidates from asking questions of the audience (a real Clinton trick) for fear that it all gets too sentimental and huggy for prime time."Too huggy? So maybe they can both grin like maniacs, wink a lot and try to rope the gullible with references to "Joe Six-pack."Don't just listen to what McCain says, LOOK at him. A vote for him puts Palin in direct line for the presidency. To see what she's really like, check out the You/Tube video of her speech to the secessionist AIP. They're un-American. Wed 08 Oct 2008 00:28:18 GMT+1 tucsonmike Whether they come out swinging or not wont really matter. Justin, please allow me to present you with a hypothetical situation.A warm performance will not necessarily clinch it. Hate to be a killjoy, (and I hope I am wrong), but how many white Americans, will tell pollsters they will vote for Obama and go in the voting booth and pull the lever for McCain? Wed 08 Oct 2008 00:20:23 GMT+1 british-ish This has all become pointless, hasn't it? Now, by the time a post appears about the potential of the debate, it will actually be over and it will be time to do the post mortem.I've made a formal complaint. And, as a British citizen apologise to all the other contributors for the pathetic inadequacy tonight of my national broadcaster. Tue 07 Oct 2008 23:58:55 GMT+1 allmymarbles It is 7:50 PM EDT. Intrade odds have lengthened. Obama is 70.1 and McCain is 29.6. This is the biggest spread I have seen and supports the widely held opinion that the only important election issue is the economy.Interesting to see the effect of the debate. If it is like the last one.... Tue 07 Oct 2008 23:56:00 GMT+1 british-ish To anyone interested:My post 15 gave directions to the BBC's own complaints page (look for 'Contact Us') and included the phone number and postal address there, to make it easier for people who are angry, like me, at the unconscionable 3 hour delay in letting posts through.It seems the moderators preferred that that information was not published here. They would also obviously prefer that no-one contacted the named Head of News Interactive directly.Well, it's not difficult to find. And, moderators, I might just be complaining to the BBC Trust and the Regulator. As well. Tue 07 Oct 2008 23:51:54 GMT+1 Grapevyne I'm off to bed. I'm tired of waiting for posts to be posted. Tue 07 Oct 2008 23:35:16 GMT+1 U12831485 4. David_Cunard wrote:As to whether Obama will be cool or warm, considering the attacks upon him in the last several days, I'd rather he took off the gloves and gave McCain some of his own medicine.________There is a saying going somewhat like this : 'Noone ever got voted into office by underestimating the stupidity of the electorate' .I'm wondering if that is actually true.I know, 2 terms of Bush suggest it is true, yet still, the recent attacks from the GOP (and the Keating thing) are so obviously and shamelessly a political spin, that certainly hardly anyone could fall for it , don't you think ?If my naïve take is correct, why should Obama 'take the gloves off' and get dirty in some silly shoving-match ?I think he and his campaign remained fairly civilised so far, compared to McCain's , and it seemed to have worked .There must be some more US Americans left who appreciate decency, no ? Tue 07 Oct 2008 23:25:34 GMT+1 Dr_Henry_Jones_Jr Hopefully, with them being able to walk around, that they'll square up ala Bush Gore 2000. If that happens I wouldn't bet against McCain decking himOh and I agree, Michelle will be hot.Yours in anticipation,Dr Jones Tue 07 Oct 2008 23:01:59 GMT+1 Mike Mullen The thing that really worries me about a McCain presidency is the strong possiblity that at some point it turns into a Palin presidency... Tue 07 Oct 2008 22:52:38 GMT+1 justcorbly ...deregulation was sometimes aimed not at lining the pockets of the rich but at opening home-ownership to the poor.Not entirely true, Justin. That particular bit of deregulation was intended to make it easier to acquire a mortgage. However, the poor in this country have never been able to qualify fot that kind of loan. I suspect anyone who managed to get a loan on an income officially considered poor did so by lying to a loan officer who saw the lies and looked the other way.It is a truism that rather a lot of people cannot be trusted ith money. That's why new, and increased, regulations are needed. In this country, advocates of the unfettered free market have degenerated to advocates of the rich. Tue 07 Oct 2008 22:43:53 GMT+1 allmymarbles 4, David.Obama taking the high ground is the source of my annoyance with him. He has had many opportunities to slam McCain (legitimately) and hasn't done it.Right now Obama is riding on the economic bust. Should some other event intervene between now and election day, he could be in trouble. The only way he can prepare for that is by attacking McCain's flaws.We will see tonight if he is really politically savvy. Tue 07 Oct 2008 22:42:58 GMT+1 Britishdem I think Obama will continue acting like a true statesman and just offer solutions to what him and Biden can do about America's problems regarding the economy and war on terror. McCain and Palin are showing their true colours now by indulging in gutter politics. Them and their campaign is totally out of ideas. They know they are going to lose; all that matters to them is to wear Obama down as much as possible so he won't win by a huge margin. This is indeed what Obama wants because the American people just want answers, they don't care who Obama hung around with when he was younger. And so Obama will win by a huge margin. Tue 07 Oct 2008 22:40:56 GMT+1 eightypercent # Bad Sam - its the naughty stair for you my boy. Tue 07 Oct 2008 22:16:21 GMT+1 U12831485 Moderators, put down them tea cups, we have important things to say here ! Tue 07 Oct 2008 22:09:28 GMT+1 Mike Mullen Frankly unless Obama comes out on stage wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt, gives a black power salute, and sets fire to the American flag for an encore I don't see any way this debate can really affect the final outcome. McCain is sinking, its really just a question of how fast now. Tue 07 Oct 2008 22:05:08 GMT+1 allmymarbles Gambling odds took a jump today, favoring Obama, following a further plunge in the stock market. Tue 07 Oct 2008 22:03:59 GMT+1 kburns_ireland Caught a BBC documentary about a certain mister Lee Atwater - after further research, it looks like McCain has decided that nobility won't work for him, and is going by established Republican tactics. In this context, Palin's coded language that sets Obama as "un-American", ie. not a w-a-s-p is not unfamiliar. It's all looking good for Obama, in terms of statistics, and I do think Americans are going with the Clinton line on the importance of the economy.But if Obama is set always on the defensive in the inevitably outrageous smear campaign that's about to be unleashed, it could complicate things.Should Obama adopt a more aggressive style himself? He's already won the econonic debate in the minds of the public, so maybe now is the time for a change in tactics - fighting fire with fire? Tue 07 Oct 2008 22:02:57 GMT+1 allmymarbles About deregulation, yes, some of it had to do with making it easier for the poor to get mortgages. There were claims that the banks discriminated against the poor. There is enough blame to go around. Tue 07 Oct 2008 22:01:23 GMT+1 allmymarbles Normally they would both play it safe. But McCain is in a desperate situation so he take desperate measures. That would be a mistake. Tue 07 Oct 2008 21:55:21 GMT+1 british-ish If everyone posted this here, I think the message might get through:FAO Richard Deverell, Head of News Interactive"I [pseudonym] being a contributor to a BBC News Interactive, wish to complain about the long delays as posts are moderated, often taking two hours or more to appear between approx. 1930 and 2230 GMT."In this case, Mr Deverell, replace [pseudonym] with "Brit-ish-ish". Tue 07 Oct 2008 21:42:47 GMT+1 NoRashDecisions The author of the Vanity Fair article is soo right about everything!!! Our economy - the largest economy on earth - is worth only 14 trillion dollars and we have a 10 trillion dollar debt!! Why? I bet no other country on earth either has, or has had, a debt this high in relation to the net value of their economy in the history of humanity!! And what good does it do forcloseing on people's homes? What good does it do the people who's houses were forclosed upon? What good does it do their bankers? Nothing! Can't the banks hit up celebrities for money if they are that hard up for it? Tue 07 Oct 2008 21:41:39 GMT+1 frayedcat My bet is he'll be a combo of cool but warmly respectful, slightly disdainful to McCain gibes, and he will say..."well, look...uh.." but that's OK cuz it means he is THINKING. Tue 07 Oct 2008 21:34:26 GMT+1 SaintDominick I hope Obama rises to the occasion, dismisses McCain's personal attacks as symptomatic of someone who has nothing meaningful to bring to the table, and demonstrates knowledge of fiscal, financial and economic matters in a way his hapless opponent can not do. Did anyone see the images of McCain disembarking in Nashville? His steps were so tentative he looked like what he is, a vulnerable old man who instead of running for President should be looking for an assisted living facility in Arizona.The one that continues to created huge excitement in the heartland is Sarah Palin. She was welcomed by a huge and ecstatic crowd in Jacksonville, Florida, this morning.Her ability to connect with middle class Americans may be the determinant factor in the outcome of this election. Tue 07 Oct 2008 21:30:33 GMT+1 NoRashDecisions "Still more point out that freedom and capitalism are not synonymous (how could I have suggested it?)"Well my my my aren't we being sarcastic today!!As regards the Vanity Fair article, how can you seriously believe that deregulation was/is not soley intended to help the rich over the poor after reading that gut wrenching piece!? Your thought process truely boggles the mind!! But yes, lets do point out more "American" imperfections!! We haven't done that in a long time!!! Tue 07 Oct 2008 21:28:24 GMT+1 british-ish This post has been Removed Tue 07 Oct 2008 21:27:40 GMT+1 meminmk Hey Justin great blog, fabulous debate!90 minutes after starting it your moderator(s) are still to display any posted messages! Tue 07 Oct 2008 21:12:52 GMT+1 kasmith1982 To say that homeownership among the poor was at the heart of the market deregulation is an incredibly overblown and ignorant statement. Sub prime mortgage lenders preyed on the hopes of the poor and minorities who had little or no experience in the mortgage market. Did these mortgage lenders do this out of the kindness of their hearts? I don't think so. Just because you're following the Republican candidate on the campaign trail doesn't mean you have to drink the Kool Aid. Tue 07 Oct 2008 21:04:15 GMT+1 David Cunard This post has been Removed Tue 07 Oct 2008 21:02:18 GMT+1 british-ish "too much touchy-feely stuff is out of the question".If this means no stomach-churning sob-stories about how some 10-year-old sold his bike to send ten dollars (or a poor pensioner who sent five) to a presidential candidate who has millions (billions?) that's something at least.I couldn't see why these candidates couldn't do what I would have thought was the really decent thing and say they sent the money back on the grounds the senders needed it more than they did, but there we are. Tue 07 Oct 2008 20:47:24 GMT+1 Barnaby101 Justin, I thought you might be interested to know of a body of recent research in social psychology which may provide some interesting insight into why Obama has an increasing lead in the opinion polls. The research suggests that when times are tough, people are more willing to choose as a leader someone of a social category that they would not see as leaders. For example, a woman is more likely to be given a chief executive job when the company is in trouble. a man is more likely to chosen as the head of a team of nurses if the team is judged to be dysfunctional. The researchers are Michelle Ryan and Alex Haslam at the University of Exeter. They have called their research programme "The Glass Cliff". To see more just put "the glass cliff exeter into google. Tue 07 Oct 2008 20:46:32 GMT+1 GhetNormal I'm rather surprised that you would suggest Obama's performance tonight - warm or cool - would change anything.I think expectations of him are about as low tonight as they were of Sarah Palin last week. He just needs to not fall over and give forthright responses to all the fearful questions about the economy. McCain is the only man who can alter anything tonight - he can convince people that he's capable or leading during a crisis. Or he could have a go at Obama for hanging out with terrorists. Whichever he chooses. Tue 07 Oct 2008 20:33:01 GMT+1 David Cunard With regard to the financial 'bail-out', regardless of the reasons for its implementation, reports such as this latest will hardly endear the man-in-the-street to the Republicans. It is more apparent that we have come to a situation where it will be a fight between the 'haves' and the 'have-nots'. The hubris and arrogance of AIG executives is astonishing; perhaps the chips should have been allowed to fall where they might and the company allowed to fail. Tue 07 Oct 2008 20:31:01 GMT+1 proles "The point is" that 'de-regulation' like every other economic witches brew cooked up by the Republican/Democrat cabal of capital - and supported by "serious" foreign correspondents - is most assuredly designed (deliberately) "to line the pockets of the rich" ! Any crumbs that 'trickle down' are kept to a bare minimum. The current bankers bailout is no exception and has been supported to the hilt by Obama/McCain team, as well as "serious" foreign correspondents. As usual the powerbrokers and their bought-and-paid-for servants in the media are acting contrary to the will and interest of the many to further engorge the robber barons and try and keep the whole rotten system afloat, a view offered in a roundabout way by Stiglitz but to no avail since the deal has been done, with the two complicit mock "debaters" and at least one "serious" foreign correspondent in full accord. Unfortunately, you'll never find the financier class and their lackeys in the same kind of line as that in the photo due to candidates like Obama/McCain and their Party predecessors. Tue 07 Oct 2008 20:27:21 GMT+1 Simon21 This sounds an odd tactic, since the audience is almost certainly stacked, what is the point of asking them questions? Or indeed vice versa.AS to Obama's manner. Yes this matters but what matters even more is the fact that people are in desperate need of reassurance right now, not group hugs.Margaret Thatcher was elected in the UK, not because people felt she was warm and friendly but rather the opposite - because they beleived she could take on the country's problems and solve them. Indeed she was never personally popular even among her supporters.Obama's coldness, if it is perceived as efficiency will stand him in good stead, as opposed toMcCain whose behaviour seems frequently to be erratic to the extent that one sometimes wonders if he is ill. Tue 07 Oct 2008 20:18:57 GMT+1 SamTyler1969 Justin,PSThe article above talks to more than just deregulation. I disrespectfully disagreed with you because I do not, and most economists do not, believe that deregulation was the cause. It contributed but poor macro economic policies are at the heart of the issue.I humbly apologize for being disrespectful.Uriah Sam Tue 07 Oct 2008 20:08:00 GMT+1 David Cunard "I guess Larkin's view of dying was a tad more acerbic."Since you misquoted in the first place (see my post #24 in the earlier thread) perhaps you would provide Larkin's acid view of death? It's no good making a statement without attribution, that's like Mrs Palin saying that Mr Obama "pals around with terrorists."As to whether Obama will be cool or warm, considering the attacks upon him in the last several days, I'd rather he took off the gloves and gave McCain some of his own medicine. Much of the time Mr Obama is too nice for his - and America's - good. Politics is a dirty business, as the McCain campaign has shown, and it's time to get down in the dirt with them. Staying aloof and playing 'the nice guy' isn't going to cut much ice with the undecided. To hell with deregulation and who caused what. It's happened under a Republican presidency and it's time to throw 'em out. That's the change America needs. Tue 07 Oct 2008 20:05:58 GMT+1 SamTyler1969 JustinEither way Michelle will be hot.Excited Sam Tue 07 Oct 2008 20:04:19 GMT+1 eightypercent Oh Justin Webb, why do you keep throwing in these ill-informed asides ? Especially after the poetry boo-boo.The "above my pay grade" remark was made at Saddleback during a discussion on faith. And as it was in response to a question on when life actually begins (which even the Pope isn't sure about) it was suitably humble. Tue 07 Oct 2008 20:01:06 GMT+1 Gary_A_Hill In any case, he won't be nasty, which the mode (or mood) McCain has been in lately. Tue 07 Oct 2008 19:48:57 GMT+1