Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html en-gb 30 Tue 05 May 2015 14:31:27 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html dennisjunior1 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=99#comment105 I think that Europeans "love" Obama, because, he is going to be bringing changes to the United States outlook on the world...Following the last 'several' years....--Dennis Junior-- Fri 26 Dec 2008 02:25:26 GMT+1 MarcusAureliusII http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=98#comment104 chf-cooperI have lived in Europe, for nearly two years. In France. when I was young. I could hardly wait to get back home to America. It was fun....as a temporary junket. I could not live my life there. I'd rather be dead. You don't know much about America. Most Europeans don't and that includes so called expert. Certainly BBC doesn't. I'm glad you have a happy life. People all over the world do. Happiness does not necessarily equate to money or standard of living. You get paid more than Americans? But what do you have left after taxes and how much can you buy with it when everything is taxed to the hilt and retailers can fix prices through collusion that would be illegal in America.We have many political parties in the US. In fact one of the reasons Bush won Florida in 2000 was that there were so many candidates from so many political parties on the ballot that it was divided in half and many people who thought they were voting for Gore actually voted for Buchannan. The ballot design was confusing in order to fit them all in. And it was designed by a Democrat.But we do have only two major parties in the US. Their range of views within them is so large most people who want to run for office can find a comfortable niche in one or the other and sometimes they even switch. Fri 06 Jun 2008 00:08:47 GMT+1 pakaal http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=97#comment103 RE your "Anti-Money" post:For a second, I was thinking, some older white dude from a Libertarian-minded community. Huh, I was wrong, it isn’t just your average Libertarian on the street, it’s CATO Institute Executive VP David Boaz. Yeah, not as if the “Invisible Hand” terminology gave him away or anything, sheesh. Why doesn't the guy use a big hammer or something, for emphasis? So anyway, why is it we don’t hear the views of more Libertarians on 24 hour talk shows? Well, I'd say despite Ron Paul’s efforts (under the Republican flag), he didn’t gain enough interest to even come close to getting the nomination, and while Bob Barr (the current Libertarian candidate) is welcome to run, I would be surprised if he was able to match Paul’s numbers. In point of fact we did hear from Libertarians (granted mostly on the Republican side, though Ron Paul supporters were pretty vocal, and really pretty much indistinguishable from Libertarians, in the end). And in the end, their message failed to convince many people to accept a Libertarian president. I did find it amusing that the article you linked to on the CATO institute site - linked back to the original piece in WSJ. What, having the Wall Street Journal print VP Boaz’s article wasn’t quite publicity? Thu 05 Jun 2008 01:54:55 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=96#comment102 Moderation in madness, or is that madness in moderation?xxed Tue 03 Jun 2008 17:36:53 GMT+1 chf-cooper http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=95#comment101 Number 96, MarcusAureliusIII take it you don't like Europe? Then maybe you should come to us and see what life is like.It can be rough, but isn't life where you are exactly the same? I think it's comfortable. Both my parents work full time, even I work, just to get things I'd like, but unlike some Americans, who think that this is not life, we are happy with our lives. We live longer, get paid more and aren't involved with war upon upon.I think that multi-party system would be pretty to strange to American politics. Here in Britain, you can create your own political party.Take the Monster Raving Looney Party, for instance.However, with a population and culture as diverse as the USA, I struggle to see how any majority would be formed out of the government. Tue 03 Jun 2008 17:33:10 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=94#comment100 This post has been Removed Tue 03 Jun 2008 15:16:43 GMT+1 jacksforge http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=93#comment99 "Let me cry crocodile tears for you. My generation inherited 9 trillion dollars. Yours will inherit wealth that will make that sum pale by comparison. If you can't make do with that, you have nobody to blame but yourselves. There are not guarantees but wealth like this in the hands of so few as a few tens of millions has never existed anywhere in such concentration or amount in the history of the world. Make something of your life and stop whining. You have it better than 98 percent of the world's population."maybe because a selfish generation before used up all the "cheap"resources and so along with inflation prices have gone up at bit.Pretty simple.Back when you could buy a house for a thousand.. not so not. Tue 03 Jun 2008 14:42:32 GMT+1 Rob-in-StP http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=92#comment98 This post has been Removed Tue 03 Jun 2008 13:20:56 GMT+1 Rob-in-StP http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=91#comment97 You want a TRUE answer why the Russians dislike Obama - well take a walk around our city or Moscow and count who many coloured people you see... will take you a day to get to five!! Tue 03 Jun 2008 13:09:52 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=90#comment96 This post has been Removed Tue 03 Jun 2008 12:11:36 GMT+1 MarcusAureliusII http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=89#comment95 Milwaukeen66.3% of the net worth of the United States is more money than all of Europe is worth combined. There is still far more opportunity to make money and succeed in life in countless ways here than anywhere else on earth by far. People come here from all over the world with nothing but the clothes they wear, many can't even speak English and make happy successful lives for themselves. If you don't have what it takes, if you are defeated before you even try once, you will surely be a failure in life. That's what Europe is for, failures. They expect and get cradle to grave government handouts as a substitute for not doing much for themselves. They aren't allowed to. If they try and succeed, what they earn is taxed away from them to be given away. From each according to what he earned to each accoording to what some Eurocrat feels life's losers are entitled to is the hew and cry of socialists al over the world, especially in Europe. That would appear to be your kind of place, a gray hopeless mediocre mess that is in the process of dying of its own dead economic weight. The only money it makes now is what it earns off its largest Corporation's investments in the sweat of the developing world. That is why it lives vicariously through America, at once claiming a share of its successes and at the same time hoping they will stop, looking for any signs of its weakness. That is why it loves Obama, he would re-engineer America along the same losing lines they have. Why not live there? Britain will give you free health care and you can sometimes even understand what they say. Tue 03 Jun 2008 10:19:07 GMT+1 Milwaukeean http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=88#comment94 Who in my generation will inherit that money? "The share of income received by the top 1% has risen considerably while the share of income of the bottom 90% has fallen, with the gap between the two groups being roughly as large in 2005 as in 1928. According to the standard Gini index, income inequality in the United States is higher than in any European nation.... The top 1% possesses 33.4% of net wealth, including more than half of the total value in publicly traded stocks." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States(wikipedia isn't the most credible source, but this article is well documented)I'm not saying we have it bad compared to others. I'm saying conservative politics is making things worse for the majority. Tue 03 Jun 2008 02:39:39 GMT+1 MarcusAureliusII http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=87#comment93 MilwaukeenLet me cry crocodile tears for you. My generation inherited 9 trillion dollars. Yours will inherit wealth that will make that sum pale by comparison. If you can't make do with that, you have nobody to blame but yourselves. There are not guarantees but wealth like this in the hands of so few as a few tens of millions has never existed anywhere in such concentration or amount in the history of the world. Make something of your life and stop whining. You have it better than 98 percent of the world's population. Mon 02 Jun 2008 23:46:58 GMT+1 chf-cooper http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=86#comment92 This post has been Removed Mon 02 Jun 2008 19:26:54 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=85#comment91 Arclight discharge,Well said, as far as it goes, but pre-emptive war (intervention) begins with some very dubious moral assumptions, e.g. that we have any right (or obligation) so to do, that (as you note) we are capable of establishing the conditions for peace and 'normality', and, most of all, that we have our own home systems so well sorted out that we can fix the mote in other folks' eyes...Salaam, etc.edThe men of old wanting to clarify and diffuse throughout the empire that light which comes from looking straight into the heart and then acting, first set up good government in their own states; wanting good government in their states, they first established order in their own families; wanting order in the home, they first disciplined themselves; desiring self-discipline, they rectified their own hearts; and wanting to rectify their hearts, they sought precise verbal definitions of their inarticulate thoughts [the tones given off by the heart];~~ Confucious, via Ezra Pound Mon 02 Jun 2008 15:13:03 GMT+1 arclightarclight http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=84#comment90 All: Obama may inspire change, and McCain may not, and Ms. Clinton may inspire something else; however, whatever any of them wants to do is going to be filtered very, very heavily by the Congress, which has its own priorities, its own relationships, and its own way of looking at things. It's a different relationship than that between the Prime Minister and the Houses in Great Britain.As to the current problems in Iraq, there's a difference between doing the right thing and doing the right thing the right way. There's not enough room here to really air this out, but here's some surface material: 1. As to whether or not intervening in Iraq or Afghanistan (or a whole bunch of other places) is the right thing to do, please consider: Patrick Henry asked a long time ago, "Is life so dear and peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?". Now consider: If I purchase my life and my peace by leaving someone else in chains and slavery, what does that make me? If we as free peoples do that, what does that make us? If you do that, what does that make you?2. As to intervening the right way, again there's too much to say here to fit in this space, but it goes to two areas: Counting the cost and having a plan. I think that the current generation of US and European citizens have no idea how to count the cost of intervention, or if they have an idea they don't want to face the bill. Intervention of any kind usually means that innocent folks are going to be hurt before the intervention is successful, because at the very least the tyrant will use them as pawns to get the intervening entity to back off. If it's a military intervention, a large number of innocent people will DIE before intervention is complete. If the intervening entity doesn't want to accept that cost, then it's better not to start (but again, what does that make us?). In WWII our parents were adult enough to know that those kinds of costs were part of the process, and they accepted the nightmares and ongoing guilt feelings that occurred from carrying out the missions that resulted in those costs. Our generation is so much more sophisticated that we think that there's a way around those costs. Stupid us. Our Congress here in the US has failed to properly count and accept the costs of intervention for close to 40 years now; the War Powers Act is a shining example of their abdication of responsibility for warmaking by the US. For a useful exercise, contrast the War Powers Act with the Congressional Declaration on 8 December 1941. THAT Congress knew how to count costs, and had the spine to do it.With regard to having a plan, this is the thing that shows all the "war" video games for what they really are: a lie. War is not about killing, or winning. It's about dealing with a tyrant or a bully in the only way left to deal with him, and then restoring conditions that allow folks to once again pursue peaceful activities (sometimes for the first time in their lives). Once you accept all the costs of doing that, then you plan plan plan on how to be successful at not only going to war but also re-establishing the peace (again, sometimes for the first time in folks' lives). The Bush administration completely failed to plan properly. For example, they did not take into account that the people in Iraq were in tyranny for at least 35 years under the Baath Party, and as a result the people were "used" to living in tyranny, and NOT "used" to being free. They couldn't remember how to be free. That alone makes this situation much different from WWII, but there was no real consideration of the differences (there are lots more, but that one will do for now). For this complete failure to plan they are not evil, but they are incompetent on a horrific scale. DO NOT SUPPOSE, HOWEVER, that either Obama or Clinton would have done this any better. McCain might, but only because he knows more about war "close up" than the other two. It's not obvious to me that either O or C would understand how to count the costs any better, or the necessity for planning any better. Both of those exercises require something far more than just emoting about a situation, and the vast majority of current American political types (and, I suspect, the current political types in Europe as well) are far more versed in emoting than in deep thinking, or in accepting the costs of deciding, particularly when lives and futures are really on the line. Mon 02 Jun 2008 13:27:57 GMT+1 Milwaukeean http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=83#comment89 I think my country has fallen into a lifestyle that has no future, and I fear the current state of its economy represents the beginning of a difficult era. My generation will inherit nothing more than personal and national debt. Our Wal-Mart economy, coupled with republican policy, is killing the middle class. Bush has sub-prime mortgaged our future, and we only have ourselves to blame. Obama may not have a great deal of proven experience, but he does have the ability to inspire change. As a young American, I think we need that more than anything. To save the country, we must change hearts and minds. Obama is our only hope. Mon 02 Jun 2008 08:17:25 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=83#comment88 Chf, Namaste Like Jack, I respect your open-ness. I disagree strongly on the choice between HRC and BHO, and feel that every day the former's behaviour demonstrates the many character flaws which would make her a poor choice for such an important position as POTUS, but we'll never know. McCain would be even worse - a disaster.We are likely to learn whether BHO is up to the task, and I have to say that I think he is, but you may have noted that I'm disappointed at his weakness in feeling it necessary to disown Rev Wright. I accept, though I don't admire it, the need to assert his support of Israel so strongly. It is a toxic subject in America, far moreso than here.You may hope for HRC in 2012, I reckon a snowflake has a better chance in a hot place. She has pretty well burned her boats.Thanks for the Bill Moyers, Jack.We shall see.Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace-ed Sun 01 Jun 2008 23:12:23 GMT+1 chf-cooper http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=82#comment87 87 -Will not or have not voted?I am in no way encouraging this war. I wish that Britain had never got involved (for one thing, we fail miserably in Eurovision :S).However, who did not encourage it to begin with? A stitch in time saves nine. In other words, what would Iraq be like now, with no interference? What other attacks could the world have suffered from the extremists? How much more loss of life could have occured?As for Iran, Hillary was plying for the minority, upsetting the majority. Maybe in 2012, she should re-examine her words and get the mixture right- delight the minority, please the majority.I try to follow a policy of nonconformism. But really, I just want everyone to do what's best for one another. Sun 01 Jun 2008 21:16:56 GMT+1 jacksforge http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=81#comment86 86 you are honest with yourself and us. respect.I hope Obama does not let you down(or America).To me Hillary's comments on Iran and her Vote for and encouragement of this war, are the reason I will not vote for her.http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/05302008/watch.htmlchf chopper and Ed check this piece. Sun 01 Jun 2008 20:01:13 GMT+1 chf-cooper http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=80#comment85 Ed... you may have been right there ;DI do hold a soft spot for her, but only because she brings about in me pride and ambition for America... and I'm British. A lot of my family have said...'I'm not racist, I just don't like Black people.'Now I am not one to encourage that statement, but I suppose having a family like that would influence my decision. But I like to think that that is not the main decision on my behalf. As an outsider, I look onto the world's politics. I get annoyed when I see other's, and even my own, governement do something stupid. IF Obama eventually wins the election in November, I will not bear any grudge against him, unless he does something that, in my opinion, has already been tried and failed by another government. This also applies during his term as president. Of course, if Hillary were to do the same, I would feel similar to that. But I would prefer Hillary* to win the candidacy and election because I feel that she has less of a chance of making those mistakes. I dislike America, at times, with a vengeance, because of it's governments policies. They have not left the rest of the world, especially Europe, to get on with it! I have always said that; The day America leaves us be is the day I respect America. And not until that day.I also dislike SOME, not all, Americans because of their attitude to Britain, Europe and the rest of the world.*Isn't it strange how many people refer to Hillary Rodham Clinton by first name only, by Barack Hussein Obama by surname only?!? Sun 01 Jun 2008 18:54:10 GMT+1 ronaine http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=79#comment84 chf-cooper"In my opinion, and I'm not getting at anyone, he is rather arrogant and inexperienced for an aspiring world leader.Look at Blair, the leader of my country for more than ten years... he was a politician for about 15 years before he became PM, but he was nearly the same as Obama."You're not wrong seeing a similarity between the two - but you'd hope Sen. Obama has will not blow his opportunity, Blair-style, should he get it.Also, he isn't so inexperienced. He's been a politician for 12 years - and, unlike Blair, has actually worked in the community helping people.So, please don't be so negative about an Obama presidency. Should it happen, we'll be getting a president who can think, reason and articulate himself - a refreshing change from the violent comedy of the last 7 years.Unless, that is, you "just dislike Obama" for the same dubious reason as a lot of Americans... Sun 01 Jun 2008 11:52:45 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=78#comment83 chf's in love! And Love is blind. Sun 01 Jun 2008 11:46:56 GMT+1 chf-cooper http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=77#comment82 I just pray that Obama does not win the election... and Clinton can come in for 2012. Or even better... she finds a way to claw back the lost ground to Obama. Sun 01 Jun 2008 11:14:48 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=76#comment81 Re "President Obama"...There's many a slip between a cup and a lip. Sun 01 Jun 2008 08:24:46 GMT+1 jacksforge http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=75#comment80 Marcus Errornoless I think I am Jack . Hence JACKs forge ,I Know I am a blacksmith. though the similarities are facinating now you mention it.;- I have a hideous deformity it is Honesty. And I am married to the Goddess of love. so i understand now why you are so jealous.I'm sorry.You on the other hand think you are a long dead roman emperor who was reputed to be wise. Again you act like clinton.Self proclaimed ,self annointed, trying to twist truth, and no one believes you. I'm surprised you are not supporting her.(At least I can keep a rant skirting the topic of conversation.) Sun 01 Jun 2008 02:08:27 GMT+1 MarcusAureliusII http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=74#comment79 And just whom are you deluded into thinking you are jacksforge, one of King Arthur's knights of the round table? Or maybe Vulcan, the Roman god of forgery. Sun 01 Jun 2008 01:08:02 GMT+1 jacksforge http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=73#comment78 "jacksforge, if it is so terrible here, if you could have made more money, gotten free medical care, then why didn't you go back to your bed of roses. What baloney. You are here for only one reason, you like it better here. Whatever its flaws, its still far preferable to whatever it was you left. There seems to be a one way tide. They come but they rarely go back except for an occasional visit if that. You can only be in one place at one time and you choose to be here....but you do it only for the sake of your goldfish...or whatever you pet they won't let in. What is it, ferrets?"you again can't you read. it seems to me I have explained this but you think you know better. Here is a reasonable argument backed up with facts.right?Look you finally figured out the reference to sellers of goods eh. And staying here for the sake of a goldfish is sure a better excuse than "so I can meet idiots like you". wouldn't you say. The pet is a lovely specimen of Americanus moraonous a particularly vicious but harmless toad that is mildly toxic to itself, leaving this unfortunate creature in a permanent state of self induce hallucination causing it to think it is an ancient roman emperor. Sun 01 Jun 2008 00:49:11 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=72#comment77 Well, the rules committee just voted 19 to 8 for a compromise which means HRC loses.That's that then.President Obama Sat 31 May 2008 23:22:07 GMT+1 chf-cooper http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=71#comment76 Nessie1945; great way to put it!To be frank, I don't want him either!! Sat 31 May 2008 22:05:06 GMT+1 Cassandra http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=70#comment75 You like Obama? GREAT! You take him then. He's photogenic, says all the right things too. No substance maybe....We need someone tough and practical to clean up the mess the last popular and unqualified president made, not a personable crowd-pleaser. Sat 31 May 2008 21:24:03 GMT+1 MarcusAureliusII http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=69#comment74 jacksforge, if it is so terrible here, if you could have made more money, gotten free medical care, then why didn't you go back to your bed of roses. What baloney. You are here for only one reason, you like it better here. Whatever its flaws, its still far preferable to whatever it was you left. There seems to be a one way tide. They come but they rarely go back except for an occasional visit if that. You can only be in one place at one time and you choose to be here....but you do it only for the sake of your goldfish...or whatever you pet they won't let in. What is it, ferrets? Sat 31 May 2008 21:01:36 GMT+1 nobleFloridian http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=68#comment73 Ed: As I watched your link and listened to the Reverend's distorted version of history I wondered why he didn't go back to World War II and deride our terrible treatment of Hitler! His indictment of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki omitted the fact that even though that was a terrible way to end a war, it saved countless more lives. It was said at the time that if we had had to invade Japan the death toll would have been in excess of a million, given the Japanese samurai code, which was demonstrated so tragically during the Pacific campaign. Obama could well do without any more bleeding hearts - he has enough "baggage" to carry now! Sat 31 May 2008 20:56:03 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=67#comment72 Noble,Follow the link, and THEN tell me it isn't about peace and non-violence."Violence begets violence!"..Rev Dr Jeremiah Wright Sat 31 May 2008 19:03:07 GMT+1 mary gravitt http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=66#comment71 Funny had McCain is considering a woman as a running mate as a last resort. However, if anyone but me notices, McCain is part and parcel of the Ole Boys Network. He like his fellow Neoconservatives see women in a narrow light: They are Hostessess, not equals as politicians. Women like Phylis Shafley saw this as their role to support the men running the country, not women who should be running it.Governor Palin would make an ideal running mate. Like the King's Consort, she has not past. She is assumed to be WASP and from a Right leaning state. Who in the Right or Far Right could object to her?She may end up being the first female President of the United States. Sat 31 May 2008 18:19:02 GMT+1 nobleFloridian http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=66#comment70 Ed: Rev. Wright the preacher of peace, love, non-violence and reconciliation? Surely you jest! Or is your tongue tucked firmly in your cheek? Are you sure you didn't overindulge in haggis for dinner? Better stick to roast beef and Yorkshire Pudding! Sat 31 May 2008 18:06:02 GMT+1 jacksforge http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=65#comment69 Funny how many Euro-ex patriots especially from Britain like jacksforge talk down betting on this square but when push comes to shove, they always have some flimsy excuse why they must live in the US. In his case, it's for the sake of his goldfish.You never listened did you.(do you suffer from the same illness that GW had (inability to read or remember. Just think what a bad bet it has been for me then ,arriving in2001 to GW in power.The economy has been just peachy right?No chance of making more in the UK right?getting paid twice as much with holidays and hospital free. that is europe. but again you insult me and mention your fictitious fish.. Maybe it is because all those people you would never meet that keep me here,those like you I can insult in England. But those that I like are also those that cannot afford to travel. Oh and that "vet " friend still wants you to call by.says that "if he wants to behave like that why doesn't he go down to town and find that travel agent that gives out free tickets, a suit, and 3 hot and a cot.Tell him if he's so patriotic to get on that plane,it's free" Sat 31 May 2008 17:43:51 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=64#comment68 Noble,"Europeans who like Obama, which presupposes that those who do are far to the left of the political spectrum,"Again, the simple-minded, one-dimensional political spectrum! ONE-DIMENSIONAL!"Catholic priest, whose "performance" emulated, or even surpassed, that of Rev. Wright. "Surpassed by far - no emulation there! Rev Wright, as anyone who has made the effort to watch/listen to his remarks IN CONTEXT, will know, is no preacher of hate in any form - rather the reverse - a preacher of peace, love, non-violence and reconciliation.Salaam, etc.ed Sat 31 May 2008 16:36:12 GMT+1 nobleFloridian http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=63#comment67 Europeans who like Obama, which presupposes that those who do are far to the left of the political spectrum, surely must be getting upset by the manic "sermons"emanating from his church's pulpit. Obama's silken tongue is busy these days frantically disowning the latest barrage of hate, this time from a Catholic priest, whose "performance" emulated, or even surpassed, that of Rev. Wright. What a disgusting spectacle, one that surely should be met with severe sanctions by his superiors. It makes one wonder who will be the next hatemonger to step into that sullied pulpit and spout the same type of venom.On another note, have you Justine bloggers noticed that on the other BBC editors' blogs, which concern mostly domestic matters, the comments are few and far between? Pat yourselves on the back for your interest in Justin's articles, who surely must take the prize for having by far the most adherents. And check out Blog 3 under Hostile Response by Rod McKenzie, an interesting piece. Sat 31 May 2008 16:16:06 GMT+1 chf-cooper http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=62#comment66 DutchNemoI dislike America, yes, but I am no moderate. I criticise all governments because politics is run so awkwardly. However, I dislike America for several reasons...One) Quite a few think that Europe is the worst place on Earth.Two) They think that they deserve to rule the world, like they try and do.Three) They voted Bush in... and kept him in.Four) They had the revolution and contributed for 70 years to the desctruction of our planet.Simple ;D Sat 31 May 2008 15:55:18 GMT+1 chf-cooper http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=61#comment65 I'm sorry to say this, but I just dislike Obama. I cannot see him running a country like America. In my opinion, and I'm not getting at anyone, he is rather arrogant and inexperienced for an aspiring world leader.Look at Blair, the leader of my country for more than ten years... he was a politician for about 15 years before he became PM, but he was nearly the same as Obama. New, young and charismatic. Look at the Millenium Project, the Iraq War (Heavens knows why we followed them out there), look at how he was ousted from leadership.Sorry, just my views, if rather biased ;D Sat 31 May 2008 15:52:14 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=60#comment64 And some say I have too much time on my hands!;-) Sat 31 May 2008 15:47:58 GMT+1 DutchNemo http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=59#comment63 MarcusAureliusII,''I've not only seen Europe first hand by living in it for a couple of years, I've seen the inside of the European mind, how it views itself and the world.''I'm born in Europe and I'm still living there. I'm sure most Europeans don't dislike the United States or the American people. We can roughly distinguish three groups of Europeans concerning their views on the United States:- Europeans who love the United States and everything American (the Pro-Americans).- The Europeans who criticise the United States but who aren't Anti-American. They simply don't agree with some of its policies. They criticise their own governments the same way (the moderates). - Those who fear the power of the United States or never accepted the loss off their Empire (Anti-Americans). I consider most Europeans to be part of the second group which doesn't dislike the United States but doesn't like her either. Sat 31 May 2008 15:46:13 GMT+1 MarcusAureliusII http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=58#comment62 Ed, while yours are short, sweet, and to the point. What's the matter, goldfish got your tongue :-)Believe it or not, I waded through the entire 40 page so called opt outs, the red lines. What a buch of baloney. Sat 31 May 2008 15:29:16 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=57#comment61 Marcus,"Just compare the US Constitution with the 400 page monstousity the EU came up with as a simple and obvious example. "Your posts are, of course, models of brevity.xxed Sat 31 May 2008 14:31:49 GMT+1 MarcusAureliusII http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=56#comment60 kburns_IrelandAmerica and Europe two peas in a pod? I don't think so. Not after you actually open your eyes. America remains the quintessential model of an anti-Europe civilization while Europe at once falsely ascribes to the US every detestable trait it has displayed itself for centuries and at the same time makes a pathetic attempt to emulate it. Just compare the US Constitution with the 400 page monstousity the EU came up with as a simple and obvious example. Sat 31 May 2008 14:12:49 GMT+1 MarcusAureliusII http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=55#comment59 DutchNemoI wasn't born detesting Europe, it took a long time and a lot of experience to shape my attitude. Too much to talk about on a thread in more than small scattered pieces here. It should be sufficient to say that as that view came into focus for me, I became increasingly less suprised by what happened to Europe, what it did, how it reacted. I've not only seen Europe first hand by living in it for a couple of years, I've seen the inside of the European mind, how it views itself and the world. I think I understand a lot about it. BTW, there is plenty of documentation including a recent book written in the last couple of years which traces Anti-Americanism in Europe back to the American Revolution. Europe and America have had a very rocky relationship even in seemingly better times throughout their mutual history.I think Europe is going down. The energy problem is only one of many reasons in a phalanx of unsolvable problems. As for India and China, there may be a point where their civilizations can't go beyond for many reasons. The US has been written off time and again throughout history...and those who did were proven badly mistaken every time. So if this was a Casino and you had only one chip, which square would you place it on? Me I'm standing pat. Funny how many Euro-ex patriots especially from Britain like jacksforge talk down betting on this square but when push comes to shove, they always have some flimsy excuse why they must live in the US. In his case, it's for the sake of his goldfish.Mingus, rest assured not everyone here feels as you say. I for one think Amrica's domination of the world in every significant way is only going to increase despite occasional apparent minor setbacks. China and India notwithstanding, the US is still the most vibrant energetic society of all and allows the greatest exploitation of each individuals full potential. That is why it continues to be an irresistable magnet for the best in the world. Sat 31 May 2008 14:06:53 GMT+1 kburns_ireland http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=54#comment58 I think this is probably unhelpfull for Obama. While the level headed among us - both Americans and Western Europeans - understand that we are in fact two-peas-in-a-pod, the lazy anti European sentiment in America mirrors the (frankly) stupid anti American sentiment unfortunately prevalent among some Europeans.Obama needs to be 'Mr. America' to win the presidency. He can do the right thing and team up with Europe afterwards, but until then he needs to heed the mob and keep eyes within his own borders. Sat 31 May 2008 13:58:31 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=53#comment57 #56No hard feelings, but I've heard dire preditions of US power declining for many decades now.But judging not only by high-tech products but also by number of Americans on Nobel science prizes list and a current list of critical patent holders other "superpowers" will have an awful amount of catching up to do. And that on an unrealistic assumption that in the meatime US will stand still and NAFTA will not expand to AFTA.P.S. Wake me up when 'democratic' India will get rid of its caste system and China of its corrupt authoritarian one. [cf. 7000 Chinese schools crumbling into dust while most of Communist Party committees' hdqts survive, and millions of Hindus demanding from ruling Brahmins that they be downgraded to a lower caste]P.P.S. Having huge populations is not an asset; it's a liability (billions of mouths to feed). Sat 31 May 2008 13:47:59 GMT+1 MingusMajor http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=52#comment56 I can't believe some of the comments I'm reading here, are BBC's readers really so servile and cowardly?. Even in this liberal snakepit of Obama lovers, I would have expected to find atleast one voice of reason and patriotism. You disgust me, you're a disgrace to the entire Western world.The sun will never set over the lands of liberty, reason and justice. Sat 31 May 2008 13:21:31 GMT+1 DutchNemo http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=51#comment55 MarcusAureliusII,''A new day is dawning for China. As China's sun rises, Europe's sets. That's what the EU agreed to in Bali a few months ago. They wanted the US to jump off the cliff with them. Sorry, no dice.''China and India will lead the world at the end of this century, the power of the USA and Europe will be reduced to the North-West Atlantic. The USA's power will decline, just like Europe's power. Sat 31 May 2008 13:08:38 GMT+1 DutchNemo http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=50#comment54 MarcusAureliusII,You seem to dislike Europe a lot. Why? The most Europeans don't dislike Americans and the USA. Europeans dislike George Bush and 80% of the Americans dislike him to.''Vlad will turn off the oil and gas to the EU this winter or next winter or the one after that and hold them for ransom.''Sure, any idea how Russia feeds its people? They import European food. When the Russians turn of the gas they will starve to dead. Without Europe Russia will collapse. Sat 31 May 2008 12:39:15 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=50#comment53 McCynical,Pithy! It seems McChip is still in need of an efficient exterminator for his infestation of lobbyists.McCain Campaign Manager's Lobbying Firm Worked For Client With Ties To IranThe McCain campaign's lobbyist ties have proved to be a persistent source of criticism as well as questioning during this election season, and it shows no immediate signs of letting up...Talking Points Memo reported Friday that McCain campaign manager Rick Davis' lobbying firm worked for a client with ties to Iran:.. Before Rick Davis began serving as John McCain's campaign manager, his lobbying firm had a pretty cosmopolitan set of clients... For example, Ukranian billionaire Rinat Akhmetov, who has several business links to Iran... To be sure, there's a good crowd of lobbyists in Washington who work for international firms with ties to Iran.... But Davis isn't just any lobbyist. He's a lobbyist-turn-presidential campaign manager who just a couple weeks ago was drawing up rules on how to build a wall between lobbyists and McCain's political operatives. And McCain has been more hawkish than most of his colleagues about confronting Iran.McFoot-in-mouth Strikes again!I really will give up on my country if Obama can contrive to lose to the likes of this!;-(ed Sat 31 May 2008 11:34:55 GMT+1 MarcusAureliusII http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=49#comment52 powermeerkat #51It's all part of the process of the de-Europeanization of the world that began a little over a hundred years ago. Europe gained its power and wealth through military conquest and exploitive subjugation in the extreme both through its imperial empires and enslavement of its own people. It is so dense it thinks the US became powerful the same way. When those were gone it effectively lived on a one way joy ride paid for by American taxpayers, workers, and consumers. But now the ride is over. With a disdan for individual enterprise, a penchant for punishing it and rewarding idle purposeless uselessness, it does not have the psychological or cultural wherewithall to survive in what is now the highly competitive world it increasingly faces head on. The energy crisis just beginning to grip Europe is only one element in its final undoing. While the high cost of fuel may be an inconvenience for most in the US who will have less discretionary money to spend on an endless array of cheap imported electronc toys and textiles, it will have a major ripple effect throughout the rest of the world. Food is already becoming much more expensive. The speculative markets don't cause high fuel and food prices, they simply magnify the effect of the shortages. Much more to come, this is only the start. Sat 31 May 2008 11:20:53 GMT+1 MrCynical http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=48#comment51 Europeans like Obama because he is a good showman, and also because of the two-and-a-half main candidates he is the closest in policy terms to most Europeans. Against the Iraq war, against rendition, in favour of universal healthcare. Plus he is a Democrat who is not Hillary Clinton, which probably helps. Sat 31 May 2008 09:45:34 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=47#comment50 Re #491.The first Chinese satellite couldn't do more than broadcast a song.It's title was "EAST IS RED".2. I like Vlad the Impaler too. "Old Europe" deserves everything it's going to get from the East. Sat 31 May 2008 08:00:13 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=46#comment49 Re #42There is a method to this madness.If McCain ( and I'm certainly not his enthusiast) who is a pigheaded maverick hated in the Bible Belt can be made into G.W. Bush's clone ("electing him would mean electing "W"' for the 3rd term") than he can be defeated.BTW Most Europeans don't know that America's involvment in all major military conflicts of the XXth century began under (and was supported by) not Republican, but Democratic presidents (Wilson, FDR, Truman, JFK, LBJ, Clinton). [Liberal Democrats were traditionally interventionists, whereas conservative Republicans were traditionally isolationists]But then, when irrefutable facts have ever discouraged anybody from discarding their pet theories? Sat 31 May 2008 07:55:01 GMT+1 MarcusAureliusII http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=45#comment48 jacksforge #31Ya gotta like Putin. I like Putin. Can you imagine what a man that powerful would do as leader of the word's only superpower instead of a broken down country whose economy is a one trick pony? I've been rooting for count Vlad from day one. Vlad will turn off the oil and gas to the EU this winter or next winter or the one after that and hold them for ransom. They pay up or they freeze to death. No kidding. Since I'd do it, I'll bet he'd do it too. Way to go Count Vlad. A new day is dawning for China. As China's sun rises, Europe's sets. That's what the EU agreed to in Bali a few months ago. They wanted the US to jump off the cliff with them. Sorry, no dice. Sat 31 May 2008 03:08:34 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=44#comment47 Straight talk!Yeah, Right!;-)ed Sat 31 May 2008 00:08:08 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=43#comment46 Sorry, but the video seems to have been "pulled". here's the storyxxed Fri 30 May 2008 23:59:20 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=42#comment45 Just for you, chf-cooper,McCain's Youtube NightmareBetter than Obama?;-)ed Fri 30 May 2008 23:56:46 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=41#comment44 chf-cooper,With respect, your order of preference seems quite irrational to me. Clinton and Obama policy-wise are like the traditional green oak joint - you can't slip a cigarette paper between them. If there is a difference, then Clinton is more like Bush on foreign policy, (e.g. nuke Iran comment) Almost the same can be said of Bush and McCain. The main difference being that McCain is (understandably) against detention and torture.Would you care to expand on why you find McCain a better bet than Obama?Seriously,ed Fri 30 May 2008 23:42:43 GMT+1 chf-cooper http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=40#comment43 Number 41.Well said, in fact, on the dot. However, I dislike America quite a bit, but I suppose this is because I dislike Bush's policies. I'd prefer Clinton than McCain, but prefer McCain than Obama. Fri 30 May 2008 22:20:49 GMT+1 Raugiel http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=39#comment42 I'm American, but I would have my own (hopeful) guess about why Europe would like Obama. Obama supporters in the the US believe him when he speaks about change, including changing our destructive foreign policies. Some of us here in the US are actually interested in a world for everyone and are appalled by a lot of what our government does in our names around the world. I would hope that Europe would like Obama for the same reasons - a chance to finally have the US on the team for making a better world for everyone.While I understand some of the criticisms that he is not experienced enough, the reality in America is that there isn't anybody who is experienced at making real change here, or at doing the sort of things we'd like to see done. Clinton is the more experienced politician, but some of us in the US have figured out exactly what being a "politician" means and it usually involves making sure the public doesn't really have a good conception of what you are doing with the government so you can do as you please. We're interested in electing someone who hasn't been taught and re-taught the tools of crony-ism and self-interest, and Clinton has done a good job in the primaries of showing us just how well she knows those particular tactics.McCain is the weaker candidate and would make the weaker president. He is receiving significant criticism from various factions in his own party before there is even a democratic nominee to go up against. As a president, he will constantly be faced with decisions on issues that are vitally important to his party, but which huge portions of the party disagree on. There will be few win-win situations for McCain, and a lot of lose-lose ones.McCain is also willing to tie up the American military in Iraq for "as long as it takes." The war is a major drain on US resources and morale. It takes its biggest toll on the lowest economic brackets, but the effects are rising through the constantly shrinking middle class. Anyone interested in a weaker, less able US (with the same negative world policies and attitudes you see today) should be interested in McCain.The only possible reason I can see for an individual who is interested in having cooperative and mutually beneficial world relations (granted, plenty of people are not interested in cooperating with other countries or even their own neighbors) to want a McCain presidency is the hope that he would mess it up so very badly that it would cause an intense and dramatic (hopefully positive) change in the US that wouldn't just undo itself in 4 or 8 years. Fri 30 May 2008 20:57:42 GMT+1 DutchNemo http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=38#comment41 This poll result doesn't surprise me. Barack Obama is popular because he is a Democrat. John McCain is unpopular because he is a Republican. Europeans associate Republicans with George Bush and his failed policies. Many Europeans don't know John McCain is conservative but not a conservative. Europeans seem to think he will be the next George Bush. I don't believe he is and I believe John McCain would make a good President to.Greetings from an Obama supporter. Fri 30 May 2008 20:39:54 GMT+1 srlclark http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=37#comment40 For the record: I did not, pace MA2, dismiss or denigrate the contribution that the US made to victory in WW2 and in the rebuilding of Europe. I did suggest that this contribution was not a good enough reason to insist that everything that the US does now must be accepted uncritically and with becoming gratitude by us poor feckless Europeans. The UK, as MA2 might perhaps recall, held the line against the Third Reich: without that fortitude (by my parents' generation) the US would have been too late to save Europe from the Reich. It does not follow that the UK is immune to criticism or that all good Europeans should honour us (and vote for our rubbishy songs in Eurovision). The idea that Europeans have envied and despised America ever since the Revolution simply isn't true. Very few of us hate and despise Americans: on the contrary most of us really rather like Americans. It doesn't follow that we are bound to like everything the US does (any more than citizens of the US like everything the US does).As to whether the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are 'American' wars: as it happens I supported both endeavours, as did the UK Parliament (though some Members would now prefer that it hadn't). And I think that they had about as much authority from the UN as could reasonably be expected of that ineffectual organization. But they are 'American' in the sense that the US has determined how they were fought, and how the peace was (mis)managed. And I repeat: British soldiers, from a nation that MA2 despises, are dying in those conflicts. We poor fools in Europe have a right to an opinion about these matters. Oh yes: and our culture isn't crumbling. Fri 30 May 2008 19:17:32 GMT+1 inspired_mind http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=36#comment39 MarcusAureliusII :*Three* world wars?Might as well add Zefram Cochrane's invention of the warp engine while you're at it. Fri 30 May 2008 17:20:45 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=35#comment38 David,Aren't those the Barclay twins who tried to corner the global market in Silver? No, silly me, that was the Hund Bros, but the name Barclay does appear at the head of one of the biggest piles of money in the world - holding the largest chunks of several of the largest corporations in the world (Exxon, etc.).I guess they're worth listening to over drinks at Davos or "Picture Mountain"...xxed Fri 30 May 2008 17:17:44 GMT+1 ronaine http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=34#comment37 As to the idea that most Europeans would prefer an Obama presidency - I think that's a big thumbs down from us to Jeb, Donald et al's "Project for the new Amerian century"The current debate, and McClellan's revelationary parade, makes me think of the famous quote:“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”from Herr Gerbils. Fri 30 May 2008 17:15:29 GMT+1 jacksforge http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=33#comment36 #21WHAT A BUNCH OF TRIPE.So NATO should Go to war with a third party because Russia's Vladimir Putin says so. thats a new take. Fri 30 May 2008 16:54:05 GMT+1 David Cunard http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=33#comment35 #13 LionandtheUnicorn wrote "I'm glad we an rely on the opinion of a decent upstanding law abiding man like Conrad Black and his newspaper."Lord Black is now in an American jail having been found guilty of mail fraud and The Telegraph is owned by the twin brothers Sir David Barclay and Sir Frederick Barclay (both born on 27 October 1934) and who have owned the publication since 2004. It's the Editorial policy that should be criticised, not the former proprietor. Fri 30 May 2008 16:36:32 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=32#comment34 This will earn the USA some more respect in the world - NOT!GRRRR! Fri 30 May 2008 15:34:36 GMT+1 jalvarezv http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=31#comment33 I wonder if that Telegraph poll included the other two presidential candidates as well: Nader and Barr. How many Europeans know it's not just the democratic and republican candidates running? BBC certainly has made no effort to inform people of these other choices, it is a shame. The elections page is so biased towards the democratic and republican candidates that it seems like a us news agency. Fri 30 May 2008 15:02:53 GMT+1 ronaine http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=30#comment32 #27 - well put.Not JC, the psychogeographic poet by any chance...?Ed - Good point about 'productivity'. Shoreditch, where I worked for a long time, used to be the heart of small industry - such as 'light' building and furniture trades mostly serving the City.Now it mainly produces 'virtual' goods. Fri 30 May 2008 14:27:07 GMT+1 AAlvinTwiningham http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=29#comment31 MA II, are we still at was with Hussein? I could have sworn at least that part of it WAS "mission accomplished".Iraq is the world's war only because our invasion turned it into AQ's biggest training ground. Saddam may not have been nice, but he ran a very tight ship where radical Islam was concerned. Fri 30 May 2008 14:12:44 GMT+1 JusticeForAll http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=28#comment30 Undoubtedly Obama may bring back better relations with other nations. Obama will be the leader of the 21st Century and we had enogh of Clintons and Bushes. Fri 30 May 2008 13:54:10 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=27#comment29 Kareful Kat, that's a good way to get moderated! ;-)Actually, Zeus was right - we aren't grown-up enough to handle fire, which allowed and encouraged the development of language (for the first time we were able to sit up all night talking rubbish), which was OK, until some bean-counters invented writing, and within a generation there were lawyers!Today, in the "developed world", it's likely that half the folk "gainfully employed" never produce anything except documents. The more abstract and indoor one's "employment", the higher the status granted.Think about it.xxed Fri 30 May 2008 13:09:54 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=26#comment28 Here's an excellent analysis of how Obama successfully used the Democratic rules to outsmart Clinton.;-)ed Fri 30 May 2008 13:02:18 GMT+1 powermeerkat http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=25#comment27 "Europeans like Obama"....Are you sure, Justin, they don't confuse him with OSama, who for many of them is a hero?[and by no means only for those EU citizens who are graduates of European madrassas.]--------------------------------------------------------"FIRST, LET'S KILL ALL THE LAWYERS!" Fri 30 May 2008 12:36:44 GMT+1 JohnConstable http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=24#comment26 Senator Obama is very realistic about 'us'.In his book, The Audacity of Hope he points out that America's defence spending is the same as the next 30 countries combined.So, when he also wrote that the USA should not expect in the future to engage in foreign military adventures by rounding up 'the United Kingdom and Togo', then I must admit I winced a bit.Still he is being brutally honest ... we English may be above par vis-a-vis Togo, militarily speaking, but we truly stand in the shadows of the Americans with respect to military capability.Somebody tell our 'UK' politicians, they still seem to inhabit a (military) fantasy land. Fri 30 May 2008 12:06:13 GMT+1 Ed Iglehart http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=23#comment25 Waterman,Surely Marcus can hit the nail once in a while, considering the number of keystrokes he employs.Board, (I dursn't call you Stupid)Several well-respected economists, including Paul Volcker do consider Obama the best equipped for economic management.As to being a "force for good", here's McChip on that topic (wait for it).;-)ed Fri 30 May 2008 11:52:31 GMT+1 Board Stupid http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=22#comment24 More interesting stats from that poll:* the 33% combined who put "neither" or "Don't know"* the 43% who think the USA is a "force for evil" - only 27% think it is a "force for good"* It may not be the economy stupid - more people support Obama (52%) than those who think he is the best equipped candidate to deal with the economy (42%) Fri 30 May 2008 10:57:36 GMT+1 watermanaquarius http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=21#comment23 MAIIAs usual you hit the nail on the head.We are jealous of you putting a robot on Mars, but then youvé had one in the White House for the last 8 years. Its even difficult to see the joins, very much of an improvement on Frankensteins' monster model, but the mentality appears to be the same. Who has been pulling the strings, or is he worked with a foot controle? Isn't science wonderful. Pity that all new models often regress to the gaffe mode. Obviously a fault with the software or is it the hardware option? I think the new black model might be the best yet, but why did they make him lefthanded?Only time will tell.ps. Ask Justin or Ed for puppet / dummy and chip connection problems mentioned above. They seem to be in the know. Thunderbama is go! Fri 30 May 2008 10:44:53 GMT+1 MagicKirin http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=20#comment22 First it's no suprise the Russians favor mcCain. Their mindset is they want a stable known factor.Regarding Europe's love of Obama, is this reflective of the proffesional America haters and the ignorant college students (who we see onU.S TV)?Note to European press if you want to help Obama don't print any condescending editorials.Considering you have Zapatero in Spain you are in no position to criticize. Fri 30 May 2008 10:18:08 GMT+1 watermanaquarius http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=19#comment21 mikewarsaw # 16Tried to send you a link # 20, to the Truman Library photograph section concerning the true Ohrdurf work camp link for the Obama uncle story, April 1945.Unfortunately I warned it was a disheartening picture of WWII and consequently the moderator found it too shocking to a be allowed on this site.Check Politifact.com for the uncle story, a middle of the road site that disects all claims and counterclaims.I feel after reading it you will understand why Hillarys'personal recollections are more harshly treated than BHOs' family story. Fri 30 May 2008 10:13:07 GMT+1 MarcusAureliusII http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=18#comment20 srlclarkFirst of all, the wars against Saddam Hussein and the Taleban are not America's wars, they are the whole world's war, at least that's what they swore to when they signed the UN Charter. They are also NATO's wars since the US was attacked by terrorists based in and given sanctuary by Afghanistan and all the world believed that Saddam Hussein had WMDs and no one less than President Putin of Russia said he was preparing an attack against the US on America's own territory. That warning was the result of his own intelligence agencies. That neither most of the world nor most of NATO was willing to live up to their responsibilities is not surprising but that is no reason to call it America's wars and no reason to be surprised that many Americans think Europe stinks. There are many good reason for Americans to feel nothing but contempt for European governments and the people who elected them. Dismissing the enormous sacrifice American society made to save them in three world wars and rebuild them after the results of their folly as you just did is more than offensive enough. Had America not made that sacrifice, Europe would still be the burned out pile of rubble it was at the end of World War II and the US could afford all the cradle to grave social safety nets the Europeans enjoy today largely at American cost. That is changing as America has pulled its economic hot house down and now Europe is forced to face the world for the first time in over half a century on a level playing field. And it is failing miserably. I for one would like to see the US pull all of its military forces out of Europe too starting with Kosovo. It was a European problem to begin with and it should have stayed a European problem. I say America should let Europe fend for itself. Beyond that there is the endless self serving European pontificating which is invariably as hyporcitical as you can get. Europeans would have the US destroy its own economy by signing up to impossible and useless CO2 emissions treaties like the one the Europeans themselves committed to at Kyoto but never complied with. That had nothing to do with global warming, it had to do with jealousy. Europe's rapidly declining civilization is something we are reminded of daily. While Europeans worry about which country's songs will win a contest or how many foreign players can be on a national soccer team, the US is putting robots on Mars. Why should Americans care what Europeans think of them or their country. Europeans have always had contempt and thinly disguised envy of the US ever since the American Revolution. If I knew nothing else about Barack Obama, the fact that he is liked and preferred by Europeans would be reason enough to be sure he would be a poor choice for the job of President of the United States. Fri 30 May 2008 09:51:52 GMT+1 watermanaquarius http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=17#comment19 mikewarsaw #16 A mis-speak by a candidate whose only mistake was in being confused about a name, Auschwitz, later reported in the press that it was a sister camp of Buchenwald when relating a story about a family member who served in WWII. Politifact.com, and a Republican swiftboat group has nailed it down to the fact that it was not a death camp but "just" a simple work camp. They, the swiftboaters, are now trying to make out that - Ohrdurf, the work camp - was like a holiday camp to discredit the Obama family veteran. Check [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] and follow the link to the Truman Library picture. It is not a pretty picture.{for those who wish to see it] I can understand why the vet spent 6 months in his room after the war trying to shake it, and other images from his mind. Sorry to hear that Hillarys' lies concerning her personal recollections of war situations appears more harshly treated that Obamas family memories. Fri 30 May 2008 09:46:52 GMT+1 Nathan http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=16#comment18 Its a shame what the Bush white house has done to America's world standing.I wonder what Europeans would think of McCain the MAN if they stopped to consider the years of service to his country, which included a 5 year stint in a hellish Vietnam prison camp (the legacy of which has left him partially disabled and unable to raise his arms over his head). I also wonder what they would think if they stopped to consider he is essentially singlehandedly DRAGGING the Republican party (about half the country) back into the mainstream on issues like... *Global Climate change (it is real and it must be addressed) *torture (no torture) *Europe (they are our allies: TALK TO THEM and LISTEN) ....which he can't even mention without having right wing hacks clawing for his eyes. Granted its a poor carpenter that blames the tools ("tools" being the operative word here) but considering what he has to work with I think McCain deserves a lot more respect. Fri 30 May 2008 09:32:38 GMT+1 lordBeddGelert http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=16#comment17 No doubt that the 'Barbecue Weekend' was a bit of a fiasco. Usual story of men thinking they can do the cooking, then burning the burgers, spilling the drinks and failing to prepare enough salad. McCain has seen the light - the best man for the job is a woman, and someone who CAN stand the heat in the kitchen... Fri 30 May 2008 08:51:17 GMT+1 srlclark http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=15#comment16 What is really extraordinary, and really disheartening, about the comments received on the Daily Telegraph site about the not-very-surprising results of the poll about European opinions of the presidential candidates and American policy is the level of xenophobic contempt displayed by some - many - of the American posters. Apparently the least criticism of American policy, or of the effects of American dominance in the world, leads some Americans to recall their (their parents'?) contributions to WWII and the rebuilding of Europe as if this should earn the US uncritical approval for absolutely anything, to express their hatred of Europeans as obvious slaves, socialists and general losers - and to ignore the contribution that Europeans have made, often with their lives, to the cause of liberty - and sometimes to American projects that some of us regret (British soldiers are dying in America's wars at the moment). Of course, the election is the business of US citizens. But to suppose that the rest of us can have no interest in the result - as though the US were a small republic with no influence on the world - is ridiculous. I say this as one of the remaining Britons to admire Blair (within reason) and to be prepared to think that even G.W.Bush is sometimes right! Fri 30 May 2008 08:20:26 GMT+1 mikewarsaw http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=14#comment15 Do Europeans love Obama? Well, I for one do NOT! The man comes across as a sanctimonious, arrogant ignorant who is full of empty words signifying nothing.: A couple of days ago he claimed that "his uncle had freed Auschwitz"! Why does the BBC make fun of Clinton when Obama makes even bigger gaffes? Was he trying to capture the Jewish vote in the USA? For a Professor of Harvard he is evidently poorly educated. Given that it was the Russians (Red Army) who freed Auschwitz and that no American troops were even close to there (the nearest in January !945 were still west of the Rhine river over 1000km away!), I am not at all surprised they prefer candidate McCain. At least he has some knowledge and experience of the world outside the USA. For me, Obama will be an even worse president than Carter was. Fri 30 May 2008 07:55:32 GMT+1 LionandtheUnicorn http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=13#comment14 I'm glad we an rely on the opinion of a decent upstanding law abiding man like Conrad Black and his newspaper to inform us of an utterly impossible statistic like 'most Europeans support candidate x' polls and surveys are some of the most inaccurate methods to measure anything. The wording of the question can easily affect the outcome. It is impossible to claim truth in knowing what people want without manipulating the universe in which you present the scenario to them. In this fashion saying 'most europeans love obama. out of a survey in which we know nothing of the method used to get the results is potentially dangerous and at the very least unethical.This is not pro or anti any candidate as all are portrayed by the media to you. Just consider the piece before you respond Fri 30 May 2008 05:51:43 GMT+1 bbatiz http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=12#comment13 I am still surprise how little the press and even the Obama team have done to remind people of McCain's involvement in the biggest fraud in US history (wiki is full of it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Fivebut the book by Black is more colourful) Fri 30 May 2008 04:56:50 GMT+1 Ptrsln http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=11#comment12 Justin's summary of the telegraph article is actually misleading. It seems that more Russians would vote for Obama than McCain:"The only country where Mr McCain can rival his opponent’s popularity is in Russia, where anti-American feeling is strongest. The Republican appears to have made a striking impression on Russians, with 24 per cent saying they would vote for him if they could - a mere seven points BEHIND Mr Obama." (emphasis added) Fri 30 May 2008 03:35:32 GMT+1 rupertornelius http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=10#comment11 If he picks SP for VP, how does McCain make the case that Obama is inexperienced/ unqualified? Tough one. Fri 30 May 2008 02:44:29 GMT+1 ljbella http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=9#comment10 The anti-American Russians like McCain over Obama. So that must imply that the pro-American Russians prefer Obama or Clinton over McCain. OK, I can live with that. Now, my next question would be: which American presidential candidate do the Russian people feel would be most likely to poision their political opponents with lets say...Polonium 232? Fri 30 May 2008 02:30:38 GMT+1 Justianus http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=8#comment9 Sarah Palin for McCain's VP slot? That's certainly innerestin'.Here's a little piece about it. It's from Huffington, so it's bound to be unbiased and fair: VP Palin!As for me, I'm a bit concerned about the polar bears, though. Not for them, mind - about them. What if they get, like, really angry? _____________Papa Bear: "Okay, guys, what would you like?"Boy Bear: "McCainNuggets! MacCainNuggets!"Girl Bear: "Awh, shut up! You're such a baby! I want real food! I want the Palin Burger Special! With Moose sauce on top!"Momma Bear: "Now, guys, settle down. There's going to be plenty for everyone. Horace, we'll start out with a platter of the Popular Vote Clams, don't you think?"Papa Bear: "Yes, dear. If you say so."_____________You've got to admit - it's frightening. Ending up as the menu of bears. I must admit, I'm confused on this one. I mean, I'm with McCain - we should never surrender. But why does that so effortlessly translate to getting eaten alive? Fri 30 May 2008 02:02:05 GMT+1 vagueofgodalming http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=7#comment8 That Youtube link is private. Fri 30 May 2008 01:49:28 GMT+1 jacksforge http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=6#comment7 Maybe if they are anti-american they are also spoiling for a war (much like some (fewer) americans are spoiling for a war with Iran). Mc cain will push the "missile defence shield" and keep tension up. Obama might hopefully be smart enough to realise there's better ways to spend the money than antagonising every one including our allies. GW was sure Russia was an a friendly nation. (At least in the war to terror). One reason they are less so is because of the inflexibility of the US on this issue. And MA11 If sure not as rude as your awakening ,i f that is the result.Chances are Obama will be way more in tune with the Eurothinking than you.Might even go so far as to ban the gas guzzler . Or worse FUND PUBLIC TRANSPORT.Oh how abhorrent eh? Fri 30 May 2008 00:47:55 GMT+1 blue_donkey http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/05/europeans_love_obama.html?page=5#comment6 Interesting on McCain's VP"She's also a potential magnet for disaffected Hillary Clinton voters, many of whom are just looking for a reason not to vote for Obama."Presumably this is a not very well veiled way of saying some of Hilary's supporters are racists.Does anyone know of any reliable and quantifiable evidence on the affect of VP nominations on the overall popularity of the ticket in the fall?I know we all love to speculate who might be on which ticket. But is who the VP is a real consideration for voters?My anecdotal observation is that overall it doesn’t make a lot of difference, but it could help deliver a key state which might swing the Electoral College. If that is correct (I’d be prepared to be proved wrong) Alaska is a dumb state for a Republican to nominate a VP from.......Justin: Are any of the other candidates from the McCain BBQ over the weekend from Ohio, Penn. or Florida? I haven’t yet made an electoral map that these states aren’t swing states and crucial, they're also the states where Obama’s democrat base seems flakiest in support of him.I would also have thought that the longer it goes without good economic news Romney becomes a stronger candidate. McCain might hate him, but when I was in Boston (Mass. not Lincolnshire) in January chatting with people about the primaries, the people I met all said one thing, they thought Romney was the best candidate on the economyMy anecdotal/ Fri 30 May 2008 00:43:51 GMT+1