Comments for http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html en-gb 30 Thu 31 Jul 2014 16:26:51 GMT+1 A feed of user comments from the page found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html hantulaut http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=97#comment37 This post has been Removed Fri 11 Mar 2011 15:42:12 GMT+1 hantulaut http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=94#comment36 This post has been Removed Fri 11 Mar 2011 15:32:34 GMT+1 huntingtonpaper http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=92#comment35 You are right @14 _Ewan_The modules on the BBC homepage give the users control over the content that's provided.Should these social gizmos be added to the iPlayer homepage as a default? I don't think so. They should be an opt in service - there if you want to add it. The "Friends" section is there already - without adding anything to it. It adds nothing if you don't want to socialize.It would be more like the iPlayer website was made similar to the homepage where you could chose the type of iPlayer programmes you wish to view, such as a Drama module, Sport module, etc, and you could tailor it far more to YOU than recommendations that someone you once met at a party and added them as a Facebook friend has given. Thu 24 Feb 2011 20:57:03 GMT+1 RougeEtNoir http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=89#comment34 I am not and have never been on Facebook or Twitter - does this mean that I cannot recommend things?When I try I just remain in the loop 'Get Started', click 'Done'. It is extremely frustrating for the screen content to imply that you can make recommendations without adding contacts from those 2 sites if that is not the case. Tue 28 Sep 2010 12:30:36 GMT+1 Dave Holland http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=86#comment33 The discussion about Facebook and cookies is interesting but I wondered if there was anything to share on my question in #21? Thanks. Mon 28 Jun 2010 22:30:02 GMT+1 Nick Reynolds http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=84#comment32 Regarding LSOs on media player we now have a blog post about this subject so could you leave comments about that there please.Thanks. Mon 28 Jun 2010 09:17:40 GMT+1 J D http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=81#comment31 http://www.out-law.com/page-11176http://blog.jgc.org/2010/06/whats-wrong-with-flash-cookies.html Sat 26 Jun 2010 10:03:56 GMT+1 Nick Reynolds http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=78#comment30 BTCustomer - I asked the technical team concerned about your query and this was their response:"We understand the problem you are having – our media player did not previously require LSOs. We are however in the process of making some fundamental technical changes to it, and while we’re doing this you will not be able to use the player properly if you disable LSOs. Doing this does not conflict with our privacy policies, but we’re aiming to remove this dependency once the changes are complete." Tue 15 Jun 2010 13:34:52 GMT+1 J D http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=76#comment29 I hope the BBC likes salted cookies & LSOs. Keep Off the grass unless invited my surfing habits are my own! Sat 12 Jun 2010 17:09:00 GMT+1 BTCustomer http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=73#comment28 Is there any connection between this iPlayer move, and the fact that the BBC Flash player has just started to use covert Flash LSO setting, without which the videos simply don't work? (for example virtually all video on the BBC News site won't work unless LSO's are set). I discovered this because I had LSO setting blocked globally, and a couple of days ago all the BBC video content "broke" until I removed the block on LSOs. I've had the block in place for months, but the videos only stopped working a couple of days ago. Similarly if Firefox BetterPrivacy is set to prevent BBC News videos storing LSOs then the videos won't play either. I don't recall being notified or asked for consent on the introduction of this covert tracking via LSOs. Social networking is all very well, but it needs to be based on full transparency and explicit consent. The change to LSO setting and tracking with BBC Flash video seems to have been an entirely covert matter. I thought the BBC didn't use commercial tracking on UK site visitors because of the Charter/Trust conditions?Here's hoping for an innocent explanation, or even better, withdrawal of the obligatory setting of LSOs for those who want to view news video. I'm quite nervous about having my BBC video viewing habits tracked covertly. Sat 12 Jun 2010 16:52:45 GMT+1 baldie_chick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=71#comment27 Issues over regulations aside, I personally would be very keen to see the option to link to friends directly via BBC, as I (and more importantly, many of my friends) are becoming increasingly wary of facebook privacy issues (a matter on which I have been myself predominantly informed via BBC coverage in fact). Best regards. Thu 10 Jun 2010 22:32:16 GMT+1 TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=68#comment26 #26. At 4:07pm on 10 Jun 2010, Nick Reynolds wrote:"In other words the BBC has the right to partner up with anyone it likes (and indeed it does) as long as the decision to do so is freely made by the BBC, not under duress."But what about the TVL payer who doesn't want to be forced to use either Facebook or Twitter under duress but does want to make use of this BBC owned BBCiD/iPlayer application?!Also in my opinion you are wrong in saying that it's all just about managerial and editorial independence from third parties, the Royal Charter explicitly states (my italic emphasis) "The BBC shall be independent in all matters concerning the content of its output, the times and manner in which this is supplied..//..", the BBC - whilst no longer being owners/partners of transmitter sites - has legal contracts/redress should one of the private and independent TX companies fail to maintain the service, the BBC has contracts/legal redress with regards its output chain (both TV and internet services), what redress does the BBC and thus the viewer/listener have in the case of a non functioning third party Facebook or Twitter website [or part of] when Licence Fee payers, as defined within the Royal Charter, are let down by a non functioning programme referral system, perhaps missing the last chance to catch a programme? If these external websites cause an outage of this service will the BBC make an exception of any 7 days listing period or will the BBC just wash their hands of the issue?Whilst the Royal Charter gives editorial and management freedoms it also lays down certain responsibilities, unfortunately it has become the norm within the BBC to pay nothing but lip-service (in my opinion) to much of these responsibilities, as an example, the head-long rush into ratings battles with commercial broadcasters has all but reversed, if not rewritten, the meaning of section 5 of the Royal Charter;"5. How the BBC promotes its Public Purposes: the BBC’s mission to inform, educate and entertain(1) The BBC’s main activities should be the promotion of its Public Purposes through the provision of output which consists of information, education and entertainment,..//.."There is much entertainment, little education and almost no information beyond news (and what remains is contained within entertainment like programming and thus much dumbed down), whilst the BBC is not in technical breach of the Royal Charter, it is not complying to the order in which its responsibilities are laid down. But I digress... Thu 10 Jun 2010 16:20:32 GMT+1 Nick Reynolds http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=65#comment25 Hi Boilerplated,Firstly I disgree with you that the BBC is "over promoting" certain websites. This is always going to be a matter of taste and judgement of course.Secondly I disagree with you about your interpretation of the clause in the Charter. My interpretation would be more simple: the BBC decides what it does, not other people. It's about managerial and editorial independence from third parties. In other words the BBC has the right to partner up with anyone it likes (and indeed it does) as long as the decision to do so is freely made by the BBC, not under duress. I certainly don't think doing this gives third parties control of the BBC's content as you seem to imply. Maybe it gives users more control but that may not be a bad thing. Thu 10 Jun 2010 15:07:19 GMT+1 TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=63#comment24 #24. At 1:39pm on 10 Jun 2010, Nick Reynolds wrote:"Boilerplated - I'd be interested to read the section of the BBC's Charter where it says this. Perhaps you could link to it for me."Hmm, now you have asked...6.The independence of the BBC(1) The BBC shall be independent in all matters concerning the content of its output, the times and manner in which this is supplied, and in the management of its affairs.If the BBC is reliant on an interface with FaceBook Inc. or Twitter Inc. to offer the afore mentioned functionality within the BBC's iPlayer then surely it is not being independent in the "content of its output, the times and manner in which this is supplied, and in the management of its affairs". So unless this application can work independently of external - non BBC controlled - social networking sites this application is failing to comply with the above (section 6 of the Royal Charter), as Facebook or Twitter are in effect (technically) controlling access to BBC content by being in effect a form of EPG/programme control.If this application used a BBC social network, with just the ability to also (opt-in and) share BBCiD data with other - external - social networking sites, rather than requiring those other external social networking sites to work it would be OK...Whilst one can claim that the iPlayer, and any social media linking, are not primary methods of content provision, the wider the iPlayer appeal, the faster end-users IP connections become, the increase in IPTV's, who knows how some will get their BBC content in the near future.This is on top of what is basically the over promotion of certain websites, a long and ongoing problem. Thu 10 Jun 2010 14:11:52 GMT+1 Nick Reynolds http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=60#comment23 Boilerplated - I'd be interested to read the section of the BBC's Charter where it says this. Perhaps you could link to it for me. Thu 10 Jun 2010 12:39:16 GMT+1 TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=57#comment22 #22. At 12:07pm on 10 Jun 2010, Nick Reynolds wrote:"Boilerplated - the BBC is not forcing anybody to do anything. People don't have to use these social features if they don't want to. As Simon explains above the range of social networks will expand over time."So what is BBC doing, spending our money on application that we can't use?!...The fact is, if people do want to use these applications that we (the TVL payer) have paid for then the BBC IS forcing them to sign up to use commercial websites, something that is against the BBC's Royal Charter as the BBC is by default promoting those commercial websites. Thu 10 Jun 2010 12:03:08 GMT+1 Nick Reynolds http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=55#comment21 Boilerplated - the BBC is not forcing anybody to do anything. People don't have to use these social features if they don't want to. As Simon explains above the range of social networks will expand over time. Thu 10 Jun 2010 11:07:09 GMT+1 Dave Holland http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=52#comment20 I'm intrigued by the plans to extend this social-ness to platforms like the Wii. My family uses iPlayer on the Wii quite a lot, we think it's great. However, will we in future have to log in to use it? Or will the recommendations become a mish-mash of my thrillers, my wife's documentaries, and our children's favourites? I can't see either prospect as particularly appealing. Thu 10 Jun 2010 10:59:44 GMT+1 TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=50#comment19 #19. At 10:19am on 10 Jun 2010, Simon Cross wrote:"you have to know them on Facebook or Twitter first.So the BBC is forcing people to use a commercial website, doesn't that constitute a form of promotion and is thus directly against the BBC's Royal Charter, please desist... Thu 10 Jun 2010 09:42:24 GMT+1 Simon Cross http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=47#comment18 #18 @baldie_chick - We've built it as option 4 - the hybrid solution - this means there's currently no way to add someone to your friends directly on the BBC site - you have to know them on Facebook or Twitter first.If lots of people ask for that feature then its certainly something we can add in...S Thu 10 Jun 2010 09:19:02 GMT+1 baldie_chick http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=44#comment17 It's probably in there somewhere, but doesn't seem to be in the 'Friends' FAQ....If your friend gives you their ID and you give them yours, how can you link your profiles so their recommendations appear directly in your own friends tab? Other than via facebook that is. The above article (point 1) suggests this is possible. Thanks Wed 09 Jun 2010 22:15:40 GMT+1 Green Soap http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=42#comment16 @14 _Ewan_The modules on the BBC homepage give the users control over the content that's provided.Should these social gizmos be added to the iPlayer homepage as a default? I don't think so. They should be an opt in service - there if you want to add it. The "Friends" section is there already - without adding anything to it. It adds nothing if you don't want to socialize.It would be more like the iPlayer website was made similar to the homepage where you could chose the type of iPlayer programmes you wish to view, such as a Drama module, Sport module, etc, and you could tailor it far more to YOU than recommendations that someone you once met at a party and added them as a Facebook friend has given. Wed 09 Jun 2010 19:56:25 GMT+1 TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=39#comment15 #14. At 00:42am on 09 Jun 2010, _Ewan_ wrote:"Tengsted - in what sense do you not have a choice? Don't link your BBC id to any social network accounts, and you'll get no social network integration features.What am I missing here?"The thing is Ewan, at the moment this blog is only about the one BBC application (iPlayer), but as "BBCiD" is a BBC domain wide log-in there might well be - in the future - other BBC applications were a user does want to link their BBCiD to certain social network accounts. For example, to use Facebook as an example, someone might wish to link their H2G2 activity to any future 'Facebook H2G2 User Group' but would not want theirs or others iPlayer usage linked, thus any linking should be on a per-application bases. Or is that the default anyway? Wed 09 Jun 2010 15:24:12 GMT+1 Simon Cross http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=36#comment14 #12 @lucas42 - totally agree! We're at the start of this process. You'll start to see all the functions of the other profiles get folded into the BBC iD-based profiles over time. And yes, that'll mean these different URLs and user IDs get simplified to all hang off the username. Wed 09 Jun 2010 11:18:54 GMT+1 _Ewan_ http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=34#comment13 Tengsted - in what sense do you not have a choice? Don't link your BBC id to any social network accounts, and you'll get no social network integration features.What am I missing here? Tue 08 Jun 2010 23:42:17 GMT+1 Green Soap http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=31#comment12 @11 +1 from me."Social" might be the in thing, but to not to have a choice is downright ill mannered. Tue 08 Jun 2010 23:17:44 GMT+1 lucas42 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=28#comment11 Simon, regarding using usernames in URLs, I think the most important thing is to keep it consistent throughout the BBC site.RSS feeds for blog comments (e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/blog101/rss/acs?dnauid=movabletype101_221512 ) use display names.BBCiD profiles (e.g. http://id.bbc.co.uk/users/sicross ) use usernames.Profiles for blog comments (e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/profile.shtml?userid=13791927 ) use a numeric identifierAnd lists of blog posts (e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/simon_cross/ ) seem to use something different again.You're being identified as "Simon Cross", "sicross", "13791927" and "simon_cross". This causes lots of problems. For example, I tried to write a script which would take the RSS feed for blog comments and then match each commenter with the picture from their FOAF file. Unfortunately this only works for people who have the same username and display name.It would be great if the whole site used the same identifiers. Failing this, perhaps there could be a simple way of finding one given another. Tue 08 Jun 2010 18:12:12 GMT+1 TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=26#comment10 #10. At 1:48pm on 08 Jun 2010, Simon Cross wrote:"Hi all, thanks for your comments - let me respond to some of them...#4 @Chris - yeah, we're looking at this too - we think we might be able to make it work. It would be cool to be able to recommend something via Twitter or Facebook and have it appear on the BBC - or to use Twitter to let you send recommendations of what you're watching on live TV now. We have, in fact, already prototyped this, we just have to make it work at scale and iron out some unusual things...."Could this be a opt-in/out feature, perhaps using the same back-end technology that is being developed for the BBC Homepage, the last thing many want is to be confronted with anything to do with either a 'Mugshot-book' or Cuckoos singing in our nests... Tue 08 Jun 2010 13:05:37 GMT+1 Simon Cross http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=23#comment9 Hi all, thanks for your comments - let me respond to some of them...#4 @Chris - yeah, we're looking at this too - we think we might be able to make it work. It would be cool to be able to recommend something via Twitter or Facebook and have it appear on the BBC - or to use Twitter to let you send recommendations of what you're watching on live TV now. We have, in fact, already prototyped this, we just have to make it work at scale and iron out some unusual things....#5 @lucas42 - you've delved deeper than most ;-) We don't plan to expose the social graph by default as we're not trying to be a social network, but we might add it as an option. As for the bugs in the feeds, yep, we're on em!#7 @Darren - the way it works currently is the iPlayer drawer will fill up with recommendations made by your friends AFTER you've connected to them - which means you won't see stuff in iPlayer they recommended before you connected. We're looking to see if we can change this as it would make the first-time-user journey much better I agree.#9 @MusicRab - we made a clear decision early on that usernames were to public and for use in URLs, and your DisplayName is what we call you around the site within the pages. It's the most common design pattern seen in lots and lots of sites eg: http://www.last.fm/user/sicross http://www.twitter.com/sicross http://www.google.com/profiles/sicross http://myspace.com/sicross http://delicious.com/sicross. We wanted our user URLs to be clean, human readable, yet persistant. You can change your displayname as much as you like. This, combines with the fact that it can contain all kinds of charachters (spaces, unicode etc) which aren't suitable for use in URLs. Of course, you can always create a new BBC iD with a username you're happy to be displayed.Hope that's useful - I'll try and reply to more questions as they arise.Simon Cross, Exec Product Manager, BBC iD and Social Tue 08 Jun 2010 12:48:40 GMT+1 MusicRab http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=21#comment8 The public profile link is wrong, wrong, wrong.e.g. yours is http://id.bbc.co.uk/users/sicrossNote that "sicross" is your "username"They should be using "displayname". Of-course some people may choose these to be the same, but most would not want their username to be made public.Tch, Tch, BBC. But then it is a Beta. Tue 08 Jun 2010 09:45:54 GMT+1 TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=18#comment7 #6. At 11:39pm on 07 Jun 2010, Tengsted wrote:"Can you turn all these "social" applications off, and be anti-social?"Many would say that having these applications are the anti social part, so disabling them would actually be "Going Social", why - because without such applications people would have to actually talk, or at least email their fiends, and lets face(book) it, many of the so called 'friends' on these social networking sites are not friends at all, just on-line (physically anonymous) contacts...The BBC should be actively discouraging such on-line behaviour, not encouraging it! Tue 08 Jun 2010 08:47:42 GMT+1 Darren http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=15#comment6 I added my friends, and then they added me, via facebook, I can see my friend, and I can view his page, and it shows his recommendations, however on my "friends" tab on iPlayer, it does not show his recommendations. He can see my recommendations in all places.Why is this? Mon 07 Jun 2010 22:51:22 GMT+1 Green Soap http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=13#comment5 Can you turn all these "social" applications off, and be anti-social? Mon 07 Jun 2010 22:39:04 GMT+1 lucas42 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=10#comment4 The data views are cool. Though the links to recipes all seem to leave out "http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/" from the url. Also, if I try to look up the guids (eg http://www.bbc.co.uk/users/sicross/activities/2c97888a28d301291208cb08315b ), I get a 403 forbidden error; though I'm not an expert on RSS, I'm not sure if you're meant to be able to look up guids.Is there (or will there be) a stream of all my friends' activities? I couldn't find one, nor could I find a machine-readable list of all my friends so that I could create my own.Its exciting that you've given us all our own foaf file too :) Are there plans to include links to facebook/twitter in those?One thing that puzzles me is why all the URIs contain '.rdf' - The foaf files can be accessed using content negotiation just like /programmes where none of the URIs have an extension.I think the whole activity streams thing is positive step forward. Perhaps one day I'll be able to find all my blog post comments in there too. Mon 07 Jun 2010 21:39:40 GMT+1 Chris http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=7#comment3 I'd like to be able to 'recommend' call-it-what-you-will from within Facebook (or Twitter for that matter) using something akin to using the '@' feature in Facebook. @BBCOne... I imagine that would need Facebook to make changes on their side though, unless I make those BBC programmes pages? and 'Like' those pages? Mon 07 Jun 2010 20:56:36 GMT+1 TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=5#comment2 Once again the BBC are promoting two commercial websites over all others, hardly in keeping with the BBC's Royal Charter commitments, please desist from this blatant breach of your responsibilities... Mon 07 Jun 2010 20:24:42 GMT+1 FishFingers http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=2#comment1 Simon - I would be very interested to hear what research the BBC did into its own effect on the two social networks supported. Every week the "Twitter" name is mentioned many, many times across TV, Radio and Online and Facebook gets a lot of mentions too.One has to wonder what role the BBC played in establishing these two as the leading networks in the UK and whether it is against the BBC's own guidelines to do so. Remember, both Facebook and Twitter are profit making companies. Mon 07 Jun 2010 17:59:02 GMT+1 Briantist http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/going_social_with_bbc_iplayer.html?page=0#comment0 OK, it's great that I can see what other people recommend. However, once you have made a recommendation, that's it. You can't enter into a discussion about a programme.It would be good if you could have a way of interacting with your friends. Mon 07 Jun 2010 17:18:17 GMT+1