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The end of Unsteady Eddie!!!

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posted Mar 15, 2008

I'll feel embarassed at the lack of professionalism within the IRFU if O'Sullivan remains in the job. There has been considerable qualitative judgements about O'Sullivan's position within recent times but a 53 point turnaround against England in a year speaks for itself; more importantly, consider that England went out this afternoon with one player from their XV last year, while Ireland went out with only two unforced changes in theirs and you see the problem - massive tournaround in terms of scoring but absolutely no hint of unforced development of young players on behalf of O'Sullivan.

Eddie has taken Ireland as far as he can and new blood is rapidly needed.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Eddie O'Sullivan should be given some respect for what he has done for Irish rugby.

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comment by Notch (U10924038)

posted Mar 15, 2008

True MkVenner, but if you look at the last 12 months, we've only beaten Italy twice (and narrowly), Scotland, Georgia, Namibia... whereas we've lost to Argentina (3 times!!), France (twice), Scotland, England and Wales. Given the players we have at our disposal that record isn't really good enough. More worrying still are the hints that the problems run very deep indeed... it just doesn't seem that EOS knows how to develop a team! If Eddie O'Sullivan wants to maintain some respect, he should step aside now. Probably already to late.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Consistently underachieved with, probably, the best team we've ever had at a times when other nations within the 6 Nations championship were relatively poor? Yes, that makes sense.

The man should only be applauded for his politiking. He should be derided for his rugby coaching abilities - it seems that those in charge of the IRFU and numerous Ireland fans have been deluded by the comparative lack of success that Ireland had in the 10 or so years before O'Sullivan took to the helm.

We're talking about a coach that has presided over one victory against France in 10+ attempts, not to mention spurning two or three golden chances for a grandslam.

I have no doubt that O'Sullivan was the right man for the job in 2001, but by 2004 - 2005 it had become apparent that O'Sullivan had taken Ireland as far as hee could and the failure of the the IRFU to realise this at the time and take appropriate action.

Any competent coach could have achieved what O'Sullivan has with Ireland in the last four or five seasons and, as such, Ireland fans have little to thank O'Sullivan for.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

maybe so,he brought Irish rugby on in leaps and bounds,but i think he should do the noble thing and step down.He has brought us as far as he can.
I think there are some other factors to consider too e.g lack of a proper green jersey,and the loss of our real national anthem.I know i would prefer to sing amhrain na bhfian and im sure any of the players would too its ridiculous

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Ireland's Call has been the official anthem since 1995. Before that, Ireland Rugby didn't have a national anthem since the 50's... What the hell crap are you talking? Is it an attempt to be offensive, or do you just know nothing about Irish rugby?

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posted Mar 15, 2008

The mind boggles that he would still actually want to stay on as manager? Most would have walked after the shambles of RWC - and nothing has improved since then, it is the worst six nations that we have had in a long time. IRFU clique need to open their eyes and recognise that they also have got it horribly wrong. Typical of irish sport - in the era of professionalism and the golden rugby generation, it is all still being run by a bunch of incompetent amateurs

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Fair dues to EOS but surely he's taken the team as far as he can? The team needs new ideas - and certainly new specialist coaches. We only have to look at the Welsh to see what a difference a change in coaching direction can do for a talented side. And no-one can argue that this team don't have talent, especially with the quality like Kearney and Fitzgerald breaking into the team...

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Firstly Ireland's call is the Rugby anthem and has been since 1995. Those from players from Ulster would be very reluctant to sing amhrain na bhfian.
It is time for Eddie to go, he has taken Ireland as far as he can But unfortunately in the space of a yearwe are going backwards. We struggled to baet Italy, baet a very poor Scotland, were well beaten by both England and France and were tactically inept against Wales. Just to rub salt into the wounds, Wales will complete their 2nd Grand Slam in 3 years and player for player we were surposed to hav ethe better players.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

2nd in 4 years, Andy; just to be pedantic. It doesn't make a difference to your valid points, however.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

I just think we should have our own national anthem its part of our culture.im not trying to offend im a little offended.
We our always trying to accomadate and not offend any1 else.
i think weve played badly in every game since weve stop singing it.Any proud irish man would be offended including our players half of them dont sing it.SURELY A NATIONAL ANTHEM IS SOMETHING THE PLAYERS SHOULD BELT OUT EVERYGAME.
Sorry if ive offended you phillipRoebuck

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Ireland's Call is not the problem nor the colour of the shirt. The IRFU and Mr. O'sullivan have retarded the growth of Irish Rugby. The firing of Gatland in retrospect was a huge mistake.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Not wanting to be over critical, but what has he really achieved? Agree that he was right when he first joined...but look at the team he has had - 10+ world class players - we should have been dominating 6 nations for last 3 to 4 years. Instead we have a few measly triple crowns to show for it. Our expectations have to move on - we deserve a place as one of the leading rugby nations.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Roy as an exile from the north its, the anthem of certain parts of the community. Whereas everyone can sing Irelands call witout fear or favour. But this not the issue - the anthem makes no difference when we so poor today. Luke Fitzgerald should have been at centre today not Horgan. But EOS just doesn't want to blood or trust Irelands youth. Its time for a clean break- lets build for 2011 World cup and start playing players who have a realistic opportunity of playing in that tournament.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Roy, I fear that my replying to this properly, I will only give attention to your agenda but in the hope that it closes the argument:

Amhrán na bhFiann is played at all Ireland Rugby matches played in the Republic of Ireland. This included our atrocious performance agaisnt Wales last Saturday.

Irelands Call was introducded in 1995 and has been played as the Irish Rugby anthem, home and away, since then.

Amhrán na bhFiann has never been used as an Ireland anthem at an international game outside of the Republic of Ireland. Ever.

It's not that you've offended me. I think it would be a sad reflection of me, as a person, if I was offended by the chosen national anthem of any country and, indeed, if I was offended by any song. I'm not offended by Amhrán na bhFiann, nor am I offended by it being played at Ireland home internationals.

I just feel that you are raising a divisive issue here and one that is not justified at all by the facts or history of Ireland rugby.

Amhrán na bhFiann has not been played at a majority of Ireland matches for half a century or so; current form is no reflection of the anthem played.

Indeed a national anthem is something that should be belted out every time - perhaps the new generation of the Ireland side (U-20s) belting Ireland's Call out last night in Gloucester should be the kind of example the first choice Ireland side should take; the tears of U-20 hooker, Jason Harris-Wright (a Leinsterman) should provide the benchmark for the future of Ireland's Call?

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posted Mar 15, 2008

"Luke Fitzgerald should have been at centre today not Horgan."

I can't agree with this - I'm nore sure about all the suggstions that Fitzgerald's future is in the centre to be honest but his present, certainly, isn't. It's telling that Eoin O'Malley (U-20 outside centre) has had the potential of playing in the middle of the park more than Fitzgerald has. If it wasn't going to be Horgan, it would have, correctly, been Paddy Wallace, as shown by the substitution late on. Fitzgerald isn't ready for international rugby, especially in the centre.

"The firing of Gatland in retrospect was a huge mistake.The firing of Gatland in retrospect was a huge mistake"

I disagree with this as well - Gatland is now a formidable coach but he wasn't in 2001; he has learned a hell of a lot from his time spent in club rugby. Gatland has developed a lot as a coach in the past six years and we shouldn't for get that; ensconced as an Ireland coach, we cannot say that Gatland's abilities as a coach would have evolved to where they are now.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

"It's telling that Eoin O'Malley (U-20 outside centre) has had the potential of playing in the middle of the park more than Fitzgerald has."

I should clarify that this is with regards to Leinster selection.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Wales ahve just won their second Grand Slam in 4 years - we haven't despite all our suposed talent. EOS has to go or we will spend the next few years battling with Scotland and Italy in order not to win the wooden spoon. We have also dropped down to 8th in the world rankings and that was before today's game.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

I think Phillip you have made some excellent points though i would say one thing-Eddie is well regarded as a good coach, he is a woeful MANAGER of the team which is a big difference i reckon.
I think the biggest problem with Eddie in the past 18 months is the lack of coaches around him. I think Mike Ford was a massive loss. As bad as England are, they conceded just three tries this campaign.

It is clear that Eddie will not quit so he has to be sacked. This will be a decision down to the IRFU. I want Eddie to go, but if he is made to bring other coaches in then perhaps he may get a stay of execution. How about Alan Gaffney as backs coach, Keith Wood as forwards coach and someone as defence coach-how about a former Irish rugby league player like Gary Connolly or Terry O'Connor?

Other than that its got to be Jake White-at least Ashton will keep his job so we might get him!

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posted Mar 15, 2008

We shouldn't go lower, Andy - Scotland are below us in ninth, we were beaten by a team above us in the rankings and Fiji are in tenth. That said, less than two years ago, Ireland were considered the second best team in the world after convincing victories over Australia and South Africa. It's a hell of a drop.

Talks... I agree with much of what you say, although the England try statistic is incorrect; Wales scored two tries against England, Italy scored once, France scored once and Ireland scored once - they concded six tries; a very impressive statistic, given the tournament they're playing in but half as good as the BBC commentary suggested earlier. On top of that, I think England also have the highest penalty account against this championship.

To me, certainly the the last five or six years, O'Sullivan has been totally untested as a coach!

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posted Mar 15, 2008

if u play for ireland u should be prepared to sing our anthem,even for allowing for irelands call to be played,it should never come before amhran na bhfiann,what about all the pacific islanders playing for the all blacks,should they play the fijian,somoan,tongan national anthem along with the kiwis?i dont think so,if u want to play for ireland then u should accept out national anthem

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posted Mar 15, 2008

its only in the last few years that Amhran na bhFiann hasnt been sung outside the republic,check your facts,even last year with ireland played italy in ravenhill it was sung

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posted Mar 15, 2008

What is so frustrating is that we have the players, but they lack the desire or the will to win. It is almost like they have no faith in their own manager.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

comment by bostonhammer (U11254996)

posted 23 Minutes Ago

if u play for ireland u should be prepared to sing our anthem

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You are a bigot. You know that it is NOT the anthem of Ireland, it is the anthem of The Republic Of Ireland.

Stop being a Bigot WUM and accept other people instead of forcing them to submit!

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posted Mar 15, 2008

It's not fair to kick a man when he's down but surely O'Sullivan will do the honourable thing now and resign as many of us called for September last? Those who sacked Gatland in very suspicious circumstances, including my fellow-Ulsterman Dr Syd Millar, must now regret their decision as they watch Wales become Grand Slam champions of 2008. Now it's time for a new coach to take the Irish team Down Under in the summer and who better than Jake White? Let's be fair to the hopefully departing O'Sullivan. He brought us 3 Triple Crowns but there was at least one Grand Slam in the team he inherited. That team must now be dismantled with new players like Ferris, Bowe, Fitzgerald, Kearney, Trimble, Healy, Wallace, Ian Humphreys (at Leicester) & co tested in Australia & New Zealand in the summer. I doubt if many of the current Irish team will make the Lions so they need to be blooded asap. After Wales's superb display today the Lions' Head Coach must be Gatland and the captain Ryan Jones.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

lol how did i get three then? i must be as good a counter as Eddie is manager mate!

I think that George Hook who is a tube but usually right said it best. The real test of a coach is when things are going against you. Eddie has been successful until this year after the World Cup. He hasnt reacted well.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

"its only in the last few years that Amhran na bhFiann hasnt been sung outside the republic"

No. It's not. As an example, at the 1987 Rugby World Cup, Rose of Tralee was used as Ireland's anthem - the only reason for this was that the IRB insisted that all teams had an anthem played at the tournament and Rose of Tralee was the only Irish song the IRFU could find.

Amhran na bhFiann has never been sung outside of the Republic of Ireland and any check into the history of both Amhran na bhFiann (specifically as a National Anthem) and the IRFU would show you that you are incorrect and either lying, or at best, having memories that serve the purposes of your own convictions.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Its time ireland had an anthem for the WHOLE of ireland not just the republic, Irelands Call is woeful and TSS divides us as much as GSTQ.

Why not fields of athenry? im an ulsterman btw, ulsterman 1st, irishman 2nd

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posted Mar 15, 2008

As an addition to my above point, I would like to add that between 1953 (last international at Ravenhill before Italy 2007) Amhran na bhFiann wasn't played outside of Ireland, with Ireland opting to have no anthem at all. Before 1953, I'm not sure what anthems, if any, were played at Ireland away games, so I won't comment. Amhran na bhFiann not being played at Ireland away games is not a recent phenomenon and, if it ever did happen, the last time was a considerable time before many posting on 606 were born.

"lol how did i get three then?"

The commentators on the BBC mentioned this statistic earlier - not sure where they got it from, mind. If you weren't watching BBC, I have no idea where you got it from.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Oh shit up about the anthem. Whast has 3 min song got to do with anything. Eveytime we lose some idiot starts on about the anthum/irelands call. Fella if you care so much about songs wach the eurovision. Right now we have bigger issues than the sing along at the start.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

EOS has been good for Ireland but it's time for change. We have been clueless for over a year now.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Im a corkman first, munsterman second and european third. I've disowned my irish roots after today. Till they fire that youghal muppet.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

In short the national anthem is the least of Ireland’s problems and I’m wondering why this topic has come up on a rugby debate forum! First and foremost Ireland have been crap for the last year a half and it really isn’t a surprise that this six nations has been a disappointment. EOS has brought all he can to this team it is more apparent then ever that a new approach is required. Ireland were woeful today, and only compounded the apparent problems with the team. No direction, no game-plan and absolutely no confidence once they went behind. EOS has swapped and changed tactics all tournament and his indecision has filtered through to the players’.

However, EOS cannot take all the blame for this lack lustre tournament. I think the biggest disappointment were the forwards as a collective; they were bossed in every single game, embarrassingly so! This has truly been Irelands’ weakest attribute for the last 3 – 4 years, any big game they have not stood up to be counted and have been dominated.

To conclude, Ireland have been very poor this tournament and change must be imminent… All that is left is to say is… COME ON MUNSTER – a team I can be proud of and who leave nothing in the changing room!

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posted Mar 15, 2008

ButCanWe - a massive thumbs up, my sentiments exactly winkeye

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posted Mar 15, 2008

I'm not convinced O'S has contributed anything to Irish rugby considering the players he has had at his disposal. The best group of players for generations have consistently underachieved under him. Today's game has shown exactly how far he has taken Irish rugby. The sooner he goes the better. I appreciate finding a replacement won't be easy but there needs to be changes.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

IFIS; I don't think it should be doubted that O'Sullivan's approach has benefitted Ireland. Certainly, between 2001 and the 2003 RWC, O'Sullivan was exactly what Ireland needed. Since then, his influenced has been debatable and it's been apparent for the last year and a half that he isn't the right man for the for the job but let's not completely disown his impact before that.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

2 points please. I think EOS had the luxury of the best generation of rugby playeers ever produced by Ireland and managed to make an absolute royal rollix of possibly the best ever (yet) chance of real recognition, if not silverware. In addition, only for the work at province level(Chelka, Kidney and sorry can't remember the Ulster man's name), we would have seen less structure to the Irish national team.

Also as a fluent Irish speak and proud Irish man, I would love to see something like 'Danny boy' or 'The mountains of mourn' use to rally the troops before games. It's my opinion these have a little more rallying power than the mickey mouse or 'amhrain' anthem.
To finish I take a little solas from Warren Gathlands success. I don't think any real rugby fan can begrudge his success especially after been shafterd by Ireland wise rugby elite when the appointed Eos

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Gatland has had the last laugh with Wales. Viewing todays game the disparity in physique was apparent,the Irish team looked like boys in comparison.
England were worthy winners, I will tip them now to win next years grand slam.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Curious why players like Neil Best, Shane Jennings, Bob Casey, Johne Murphy, Isaac Boss, Ian Dowling etal ignored by O'Sullivan.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Jennings is a total mystery; he has been the form openside in Ireland this season and, at worst, merited a call into the 6 Nations training squad. He wasn't and it stays a lot about O'Sullivan's selection - Wallace, sadly, looks like a spent force and Jennings seems the natural successor to the 7 shirt.

Neil Best has been, very much, off form for well over a season; there are arguments about whether or not this was a phenomenon related to Ulter's poor performances or just Neil being off form. He was off form for a long time, however - that said, he was probably on better form than Easterby - and really didn't merit a place in the XV - Jennings and then Ferris showed much better form than Bestie during the 6 Nations itself.

Casey is probably best put in his own words;

"The thing is, Eddie doesn't watch people playing in the Premiership – not in the flesh, at any rate."

Casey should, at worst have been in the training squad given that someone like Caldwell, with a lot to learn, wasn't.

Johne Murphy isn't good enough. His defensive performance against England Saxons is enough to show that. Bowe, Kearney and Fitzgerald are all, deservedly, ahead of Johne Murphy and it took injuries to two of Ireland's backs before Fitzgerald was considered. Johne Murphy might (MIGHT) be one for the future but is far off the pace in the present.

Isaac Boss has been atrocious for Ulster for much of this season. I say this as an Ulster fan, so I hope this isn't open to accusations of anti-Ulster bias. The truth is that Boss hasn't been good enough this season; what impact RWC decisions had on Boss I don't know but it's only in recent weeks that some form for Ulster has been recovered.

Ian Downling would be lucky to make a Munster starting XV and has just returned from a fairly long lay off. Let's not get carried away, here.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

A Slight bit of balance is needed. While eddie has shown to be stale and must go the team need to ask serious questions of themselves in their individual performances. Trimble in particular has been awful. His flapping arm against the 5'7'' shane williams was atrocious. I would also question the ball-handling skills of some of the forwards. Take the Welsh, their ball-handling skills of every man jack of them is excellent and their support play is always good. Ireland have never had good ball-handling skills from one to fifteen and I would seriously question the assertion that we have 10plus great players, sometimes i think we delude ourselves a little. We beat southern hemisphere teams on autumn tours when they are experimenting. It counts for nothing. They are blooding players while we stick with the same 15. Eddie has to go for a number of reasons but the failure to use the bench and or develop one is downright unforgiveable. Every other coach in the rugby world believes in giving its bench 20 plus minutes each. Not eddie. How could you expect Paddy Wallace to come on and play, its completely unfair to the man. Ok ranting over!

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Eddie O'Sullivan should be given some respect for what he has done for Irish rugby

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Here here.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Also as a fluent Irish speak and proud Irish man, I would love to see something like 'Danny boy' or 'The mountains of mourn' use to rally the troops before games

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As an Irish man, Id like to see the anthem being played.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

I wouldn't get too upset with good players not being in form, but any new coach needs to be given time and space to try everyone and that means everyone. Look at Wales, if Hook isn't seen to be doing the business or a change is needed, he is hauled off and Jones in. No harm done, no egos bruised, everyone gets on with it. I am convinced Eddie with his schoolmaster style got his 'favourites', wrapped them up in cottonwool and thought it would all be grand. He displayed serious flaws in this approach, look, we almost got taken apart by part-timers from Namibia in the process. I would also add that this is a coach who apparently got a 'lions break clause' inserted into his contract. Unbelievable. I would also add that the players should take responsibility for some of this. Should O'Driscoll have pulled Eddie aside and said this isn't working. I am guessing but I belived O'Driscoll was happy to play the political game as well and row in behind Eddie. O'Driscoll may well retire in the next couple of years without any major trophies. It may be harsh but I think he is partly to balme for this. A cosy cartel was reached with the IRFU, Eddie and the top players about two years ago and they went backwards ever since. I would rather that the young lads who have a hunger and desire to play in the green shirt are given their chance and enough of the stale stuff.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

PhillipRoebuck: "IFIS; I don't think it should be doubted that O'Sullivan's approach has benefitted Ireland. Certainly, between 2001 and the 2003 RWC, O'Sullivan was exactly what Ireland needed."

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. O'S inherited much of Gatland's squad -a squad which in better hands would have been developed better and undoubtedly achieved more. I know there will be some who have a different opinion than me but I can't really find any positives from O'S time in charge.

The benefits of having a forward looking and tactically aware coaching team have been shown by Gatland etc. with Wales.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

"I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. O'S inherited much of Gatland's squad -a squad which in better hands would have been developed better and undoubtedly achieved more."

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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/rugby/world_cup/news/1999/09/27/ireland_bios/

So Irishfaninscotland, Irelands WC squad just before Gatland got the sack. I suppose all of those players were the back bone of Eddie's Irish side? eh, yeah...

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Eddie O' Sullivan has brought Ireland as FAR as he could and with 3 Triple crowns in the last few years, His Record speaks for itself. But Ireland were lost today without BOD AND Darcy in the back line and Flannery was a big loss and so was O'Kelly in the pack. I think it's back to the DRAWING BOARD and time for a NEW COACH AND BACK ROOM SET UP. Finally well done to WALES WHO FULLY DESERVED THE GRAND SLAM.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

I think the Ireland squad in 1999 is, now, more complimentary to Gatland than it was in the time; D'Arcy, for example, is in that 1999 squad but didn't resurface for maybe another four years. That said, O'Sullivan did inherit the guts of a a set of age group teams whom it was suggested at the time would dominate WORLD rugby for the next 10 years or more.

The thing that has be to be considered was that Gatland took a fair few risks during his time with Ireland; some of them led to great discoveries in the likes of Andy Ward but most didn't yield this kind of success.

Gatland wasn't the coach in 2001 that he is now. We need to remember this - he has, clearly, learned a lot with his time in the club game in the interim.

Let me put it another way; Gatland lost more than half of his game in charge of Ireland. O'Sullivan's record is considerably better, although his failures in the past season gives a much worse record; O'Sullivan has lost eight of eleven games since the end of the last 6 Nations.

Gatland didn't have a great record as an Irish coach. He wasn't personally responsible for the development of many of our, so-called, golden generation. He has had six years in the club game since then.

As such, I find it really hard to argue that he would have been better than Ireland have been under O'Sullivan.

That said, right now, Gatland is a far better coach now that O'Sullivan is. It is, however, dubious to suggest that Gatland would be thecoach he is now if he hadn't had the experiences he did with Ireland and hadn't spent the time he did at the top level of club rugby.

O'Sullivan shouldn't be credited with the development of the current Ireland side but nor should Gatland. More importantly, O'Sullivan did, since 2001, more than the Gatland from 2001 could have.

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posted Mar 15, 2008

Don't forget it was Keith Wood who called time on Gatland in the Irish job. He is being awfully quiet now. I'm not quite sure Gatland was the right man to stay at Ireland's helm at that time, but we will never know. I would point out that Gatland has obviously spent the last 7 years learning and probably is now quite the all-round coach, he may not have been like that 7 years ago. That said it seems that two of the most successful teams have based themselves on having one significant coach and one significant other, i.e. s/africa and wales. The dogs in the street seem to be whistling that eddie tolerated no dissention in the ranks and if this is true he now is paying the price. It would appear healthy to have a number two like eddie jones/shaun edwards to say 'hang on a second mate...what about trying this...Eddie would not tolerate another voice in the camp and if today he cuts an isolated and lonely figure...well sure you reap what you sow. Lets bogaimid ar aghaidh..! (move on)

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posted Mar 15, 2008

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/rugby/world_cup/news/1999/09/27/ireland_bios/

So Irishfaninscotland, Irelands WC squad just before Gatland got the sack. I suppose all of those players were the back bone of Eddie's Irish side? eh, yeah...

paulo6891: I think you'll find that O'S took over from Gatland in November 2001 - 2 years after the 1999 RWC, not just after it.

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