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Man of the Match

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posted Feb 23, 2008

Ive always prefaired Murphy over Dempsey at full back for Ireland.

Hopefully next week Murphy will keep is place.

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comment by Vrtnjak (U3092177)

posted Feb 23, 2008

The other thing Murphy proves is that skill, bravery, guile and pace still triumph over brawn.

Well done on your win...pity for the game we didn't score our point in the first half....at least we finally got a try...perhaps we're saving ourselves for the English...I hope you are!

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posted Feb 23, 2008

and just to think that we were saying that he is having a rubbish 6 nations man he sure shut us up

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posted Feb 23, 2008

Fantastic performance by Geordie, he was by far thr most skilful player on the park today. Young Trimble and Bowe did the biz too. Great tries taken by Tommy. Good performance. Defence was immense apart from that one breakdown. Where were the guards on that ruck??

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posted Feb 23, 2008

Well deserved man of the match... Mike Blair also put in a great performance for Scotland again.
Well done Ireland. Good to see players taking their chances. Oh and no whinging so far this season... keep up the good work.

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posted Feb 23, 2008

murphy was outstanding and should start against wales but he probally wont even be in the match day 22 and eddie will have some great excuse ready for the press.

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comment by Notch (U10924038)

posted Feb 23, 2008

Great stuff from Murphy- he's had a poor tournament on the wing but looked a completely different player today at FB! He obviously had a point to prove about certain selection policies. I hope EOS sees that he now deserves to keep his place in the side.

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posted Feb 23, 2008

For me, Trimble, Kearney and Bowe played better than Murphy. He wouldn't have been my man of the match. He had a great game, despite a couple of spills on the high ball around the half way line but other Ireland players had a better time on the park. I can't help but think that Matthew's decision on MOTM was more of a two fingers up at O'Sullivan than a selection of the best player on the park.

To me, today, the performance of Kearney only opened up more questions about who should play at 15 for Ireland.

His taking of the highball and kicking, especially when under pressure, suggest that fullback is where Kearney's long term future lies. Murphy did more than Dempsey in this 6 Nations so far (despite many, including my own, reservations that he could do so) but Kearney put his hand up for the 15 shirt and with Bowe on such magnificent form and Horgan returning to fitness, perhaps a back three of: 11. Bowe, 14. Horgan and 15. Kearney is the best selection we have?

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comment by jp2785 (U9366342)

posted Feb 23, 2008

Philip Roebuck you stole my words! Other backs were better. If he was a regular starter he most definately not of got MOTM. He was outshone by Kearney Bowe Trimble today. One good game for Ireland but whens the last time he's put two together. For all his mistakes this six nations Dempsey should start or Kearney at 15. Even today he was saved by Kearney once and he dropped a highball Dempsey or kearney would of caught. To prove my point about media bias Byrne got an 8 today yet he played better than Murphy who got a nine from BBC.

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posted Feb 23, 2008

If we're thinking of the same instance of Kearney covering for Murphy, it came earlyish in the first half and it was a kick that went down the very middle of tha park? Certainly, on that occassion, I was left wondering where Murphy was?

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comment by Notch (U10924038)

posted Feb 23, 2008

All good points, Mr. Roebuck, and very well made. Kearney is our long-term future at fullback, and was indeed better defensively better than Murphy but this back three is the first combination to thrive in this tournament- I don't see any reason to break them up, or move Kearney who has been one of the big positives so far. Bowe, Kearney and Murphy all put in good performances today, and deserve to hold onto their places in the team.

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posted Feb 23, 2008

Well done Ireland but no thanks to EOS. This is more like the team that most Irish people wanted at the start of the campaign but this is not Eddies team. Eddie has bowed to public pressure and circumstance to end up with this team. Eddies team started against Italy. Eddies squad went to the world cup without Heaslip, Jackman or Bowe. Eddie's squad went to the world cup without any strengh in depth due to his not blooding any backups other than in games of no significance. Any change of significance Eddie has made to this team has had a knee jerk feel to it. Redden during the world cup, Heaslip and Bowe, Jackman following sustained public pressure. The latter were form selections according to Steady. Yet that very same form was ignored for the Italy game. Who are you trying to kid Eddie? Yet the biggest disgrace is O'Sullivans treatment of Geordan Murphy - not just for this game but down the years. In and out of the team and squad for every second match. Consistently played out of position. Scapegoat for collective team failures and disgracefully undermined prior to this. According to Eddie, Geordan got a lucky "reprieve" to get back in after Dempseys injury but not to worry "Dempsey will be back for the Welsh game". I was gobsmacked and disgusted when I heard this. Fair enough Geordan has missed a few tackles in big games but for a coach to highlight the negatives by reference to the reprieve and to state that no matter what that Murphy would be out again in 2 weeks I think is a sackable offence. I am sick of the sight of O'Sullivan and his bullsh*t. No matter what his personal view of Murphy is (and I think we can guess what it is ) no coach should ever undermine one of his team with such comments. I take my hat off to Murphy. I felt sure he would quit after the way he was treated in the World Cup. I was half hoping he would and lift the lid on what really happened and slate Eddie. But fair play to him for staying on. The guy must have such amazing self belief to perform as he did on Saturday knowing that the coach doesn't rate him and in spite of O'Sullivans attempts to undermine him consistently. I was absolutely delighted when Phil Matthews selected him as Man of the Match. Phil even commented that "Eddie might not be too pleased". I cant wait to hear Eddies bullsh*t reason for dropping Murphy again in 2 weeks time. Maybe now Wales aren't Geordans type of team like France weren't 2 years ago.

Bob Dwyer quoted sources close to the Irish camp at the WC that Eddies mantra was emphasising the negatives Don't do this, Don't do that. It is hard to believe that in this era of positive mindsets and sports psychologists that someone with Steadies mentalility can survive. So well done again the lads on the field but the unfortunate side effect of this is it will prolong Eddies tenure. For God's sake do us all a favour Eddie and go. You have done OK for us but give someone else a chance.

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posted Feb 23, 2008

same old knockers again, at least ye are consistant. Murphy ran the show today, he was the best player on view today from both matches but people are still lining up to knock him down. Yes he didnt get to one or two high catches but at least he was fighting bravely for it in the opposition half, how many times have we seen Dempsey in that attacking position?

Kearney has been proving me wrong in spades these last few games but his position is on the wing until he gains more experience. Remember he is only after a handful of games for Lenister and still has a lot to learn. Fullback is just a bridge too far this year and maybe next too.

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posted Feb 23, 2008

NOTJ: In terms of thriving, I do agree - Ireland's backs actually had a strong impact on the game, which stands in stark contrast to the game against France and much of the back's performance agaisnt Italy. That said, I don't think the back five is necessarily the finished article. Personally speaking, I think Ireland's backs can offer a little more.

Certainly, I don't think the year after the RWC is a time to consolidate. It is certainly not a time for coaches to settle on the guts of the team for the next couple of seasons.

My worry with settling on Murphy, for example, is that it's been a very long time is Murphy put together two good and strong performances for Ireland. He did well against Scotland in August but has been poor on his three outings since then and before today. A good performance by Murphy should mean nothing without context.

I'd like to see what Kearney can do at fullback - given his performance today, I don't think Ireland would be losing anything in the coming game but have a lot to gain in the future.

Personally speaking, today, I think Murphy showed us why we shouldn't write him off but I don't think he's done enough for us to say he should be restored as the incumbent 15.

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posted Feb 23, 2008

I can't help but think that Matthew's decision on MOTM was more of a two fingers up at O'Sullivan than a selection of the best player on the park.

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Who's Matthew?

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posted Feb 23, 2008

completely agree with the comments regarding kearney being the long-term answer at 15, but however think its sad tht some people like jp cant eat some humble pie...jp: "he dropped a highball Dempsey or kearney would of caught"...wow, how about the one tht set up the try? you couldn't expect any player to take tht with a scottish lad coming straight through you...gotta say he didnt look as slow as some ppl keep telling me, or as devoid of ideas, or as bad under the high ball, or as error-strewn. i thought he was our best back, along with maybe trimble who i thought was awesome in defence

there is no way dempsey would ever have provided the kind of attacking threat murphy did today and there is no way of justifying dropping murphy. he's played one match in position and played brilliantly despite a total confidence-sapper from EOS in saying b4 the match he was thankful dempsey would be back against wales...you will never have effective competition for places in an anvironment like tht. murphy has to play FB vs wales, tho he almost def wont. if not picked, EOS should be sacked, as it brings across the totally wrong msg to any player. its taken him this long, with so much media pressure to finally give heaslip and bowe a chance, with trimble at centre...i just hope the media can fast-track their work here and heap the pressure on EOS to pick murphy!

today proved the need to have an attacking threat from FB, murphy now, kearney later, dempsey back-up. furthermore its time for EOS to back murphy and show some belief

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posted Feb 23, 2008

jp2785 if Murphy had scored a hat trick you owuld still find fault, what he did and why he was man of the match was bacause he helped spark the back line in a way that would prob have led to a win over the french, as was said by various people on the 606 at the start of the 6N, let ihm have a run of games at FB.... not wing... and he will get comfortable agian at Fb. He showed a lot of skill today and should be given another go.. Girvan was also v poor v france in his USUAL position and was completely out of position for at least one of the French tries which everyone blamed Murphy for!
you really ought to get your one eye sorted out!think Kearney played well but he has had his wobbly omoents for leinster.. see article/interview in guardian last thursday
Bowe was a great success, as was trimble/ BOD combe
heaslip continues to impress and good back row balance
why on earth did he bring on stringer and easterby????

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posted Feb 23, 2008

you really ought to get your one eye sorted out!think Kearney played well but he has had his wobbly omoents for leinster..

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And what about the dozens of wobbly moments that Murphy has had for Ireland? We'll just ignore all of them now then shall we? Focus all our attention on Kearney and his 1 or 2 mistakes, for he wasn't even man of the match! Let's abuse him instead.

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posted Feb 24, 2008

just read jp's inspired comments before the game as well...

"Dont say that when France scored there first try that it was OK for Murphy to satnd beside the ruck even when he saw dempsey make the tackle leaving no one back. These arent mistakes people make because of their posititions its because they are useless. Trimble is also too 1 dimensional for a centre. He is just a battering Ram. He can pass."

How about you yourself "dont say" anything else...odricky is right you are very one-eyed. trimble has great potential and proved it yet again today...all he can do is keep playing well jp theres really not much more u can ask of him...n 'useless' murphy played a damn site better than your beloved dempsey has done so far.

phillip i agree murphy hasnt done enough for ireland to say he is now our fixed FB but surely he has done enough to start against wales? kearney needs to continue to learn his trade i feel at least for this 6Ns on the wing and then take his place as irelands no15, where he's going to have a fantsastic career

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posted Feb 24, 2008

There are too many people on here (irish people) who literally hate Geordan Murphy. The fact that he won man of the match is met with nothing but resentment because some guys want him to fail and take pleasure if he does. He's been tossed and turned by EOS and has hardly played at FB. Look at Trimble on the wing and look at him at centre. It does actually make a difference playing in the right position. No honest, decent supporter would kick a man when he's down, and for that matter enjoy it. Constructive criticism is one thing, vitriol and hatred is another.

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posted Feb 24, 2008

No honest, decent supporter would kick a man when he's down

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The hypocracy.

I suppose you, and every other 'decent supporter', was/were fully supportive of Eddie O'Sullivan throughout the world cup then!

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comment by Notch (U10924038)

posted Feb 24, 2008

I do agree with PhilipRoebuck's proposed backline, we only disagree on timing- I'd have them starting in the summer tour. I can totally appreciate where your coming from; I just think it would be overly harsh to drop Murphy on the back of that performance, though Kearney is indeed the future. I was amongst the critics of Murphy before the game, but his performance (which was very good, but not flawless)has won me over for the time being. To play him against Wales is not to definitively settle on him at FB. It just meritocracy, a concept thats been lacking from the Ireland set-up for too long. Waht I especially like about Murphy is his willingness to come into the line and attack, it adds more spice and verve. to what was becoming an increasingly stale and predictable backline. So to conclude, er, more verve than Swerve.

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comment by Notch (U10924038)

posted Feb 24, 2008

I'd also agree that Murphy has been inconsistent, but being in and out of the team and having a Head Coach who has no confidence in you at all can't help. Not absolving him completely, at the end of the day the only person responsible for the way Murphy plays is Murphy, but it's bound to be a factor.

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comment by jp2785 (U9366342)

posted Feb 24, 2008

A few points

- Dempsey didnt play bad against France
- Kearney spared Murphys blushes today for a try.
- Murphy wasnt being brave with the catch, How was he supposed to know hed be taken in the air? Dempsey made a similar catch vs England last year.
- Lee Byrne was exeptional today. Better highball catch %. 2 tries, Better positioning, Kicking and running than Murphy yet Murphy got a higher rating.

I'm not denying it. He had a v. good game but let me ask you a few questions...

When is the last time Murphy put two good performances together?

When has Murphy come big when it counts?

Why does Murphy get excused for standing beside of a ruck instead of covering his wing because he was playing wing. He even saw Dempsey make the tackle leading up to the french try meaning if he had any commone sense he would of covered. This isnt a mistake you make because your out of positition neither is missing a tackle on an average out half. These arent mistakes you can blame on him playing out of positition. Why does he get away with that?

last time Murphy got a run of games at FB he handed France the championship aswell as putting in several other unconvincing performances. Why do you want this again?

How can you forget his whole past on one realy good game?

Oh and to add to the france game this year he kicked the ball away when were pushing hard for a winning try.

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posted Feb 24, 2008

macker1965 i completely agree, you couldnt have put it better. as someone who regularly sees Murphy play for the Tigers i can never understand the reasons for EOS's disgusting treatment of him. like others i've seen him make mistakes in internationals, but no more than some other irish players. i think today proved he has the quality (along with the 2 wings, Trimble and Reddan) to revitalise the team. However, until EOS is relieved of his duties (lord knows he'll never go of his own accord), ireland will remain a good side but not the great side they could be.

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posted Feb 24, 2008

jp think that says it all about your view i wasnt even sure if i should stoop to your level,so i wont but remember one comment at start of 6N by another fellow scribe who said that your comments led him to beleive that Murphy had just killed your daughter! Hope he hasnt done it again

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posted Feb 24, 2008

don't want to be argumentative on Murphy as MOTM but there were some very fine individual displays particularly from some of the less well established players - Kearney, Trimble. But have we come so far that we take ROG for granted now? He was involved in almost everything good that Ireland did; he was directly responsible for a couple of the scores and had a hand in the rest;he got most of his kicks. Sorry - but has to be my MOTM by a mile! Can I also put in a word for one of Ireland's unsung heros - John Hayes, he had his best match for a long time and his tackle count was significant. Maybe Eddie will continue his new policy of blooding new talent by resting Hayes for the Welsh match and giving Buckley his first start in the 6N.

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posted Feb 24, 2008

mm6947- totally agree with you, looks v encouraging, but re ROG, would love to see some one capable of deputising, think poss
*Niall OConnor
*Jonathan Sexton
*Ian Humphreys
but all well off enough experience at Int level

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posted Feb 24, 2008

a few points...jp

dempsey DID play badly against france at least IMO. he didnt do anything all game and was nowhere to be seen when france overloaded their left wing, poor covering

"kearney spared murphys blushes for a try"...its great when a back 3 have tht kind of understanding isnt it? but gimme a break, its part n parcel of rugby, a winger's job.

murphys catch...if you're sprinting full pace and then leap into the air with a player heading straight for you, more often than not you know hes there...either way tho it was a great take

stop commenting on lee byrne, not sure if you noticed but he wasnt playing for either ireland nor scotland! i was away so missed tht game, i'll take your word for it tht he played well but how is that relevant...im pretty sure sergo blanco played better than murphy did yday at some point in his career as well but wot difference does tht make on murphys performance? you're just bitter that for once murphy may get some good press, which may call into question your lover (dempsey)'s place in the XV.

the last time he put two good performances together must have been 2 years ago cos he sure as hell hasnt played back to back games at FB since then! im not defending him for his missed tackles in that one game against france where you say he handed them the championship, tho it does seem you're desperately searching for a scapegoat there

in the last match against france he didnt do badly. he was left with 2 on 1s, the same as Kearney was today (but Henderson aint quite as good as Clerc et co!) if executed properly its a try, end of story. murphy HAD to go in at the breakdown, it was out wide with a lack of forwards around the play. had he not gone in, they'd have simply gone straight through instead, same end result.

kicking the ball away against france, i know you know that situation wasnt his fault. if not then watch the footage of it again. it should never have got out to the backs where they were outnumbered 2 on 3 (with Dempsey his only support player deep, hugging the touchline), no options whatsoever

you're hatred of murphy is disgusting and your want to see him fail even more so. are you EOS in disguise?

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posted Feb 24, 2008

Unfortunately this debate is not over, and probably won't be over for a while.

Murphy had a good game yesterday, but I don't think you can discard Dempsey solely on the basis of that. He's Ireland's most capped full back and people overlook the fact that he does score a lot of tries, also probably one of the few to come out of the World Cup with any credit.

The last thing this Ireland team needs is a cut-and-dried decision on who plays, we need competition for every jersey for every game and that is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. I think Murphy should be retained for the Wales game and hopefully the pressure of Dempsey breathing down his neck will inspire him to a good performance.

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posted Feb 24, 2008

mm6947- totally agree with you, looks v encouraging, but re ROG, would love to see some one capable of deputising, think poss
*Niall OConnor
*Jonathan Sexton
*Ian Humphreys
but all well off enough experience at Int level
_______________________________________________

Just in reference to the out-half discussion, agree ROG played a blinder and we shouldn't be looking to replace him for a few years yet, but, do you think we're placing too much emphasis on the role of out-half? Hence the hesitantcy to blood some of the new guys or even letting Paddy Wallace off the bench. I know that if you make a mistake at OH you'll often get punished with a try, but is that not the case with every position at international level?

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comment by kinsang (U3876840)

posted Feb 24, 2008

When Murphy first came onto the scene, I was a big fan of his, but some indifferent performances and unfortunate injuries made me believe that Dempsey was the better first choice FB. However, whilst it was an injury to Dempsey that gave Murphy his chance, you have to say that he took it with both hands, and the words of EOS weren't helpful either. Make no mistake, Murphy was under great pressure yesterday, and you could argue playing without the full backing of EOS, so to produce the performance he did merited his MOTM status - could you imagine the rollicking he would have got if he had played a mediocre game? EOS seems to be trying his best to undermine Murphy's confidence, but I feel yesterday's display means Murphy deserves to keep the FB shirt against Wales. All the backs had good games, the fact that BOD was slightly quieter than usual and we still ran in some good tries hopefully shows that we are becoming less reliant on just him for that vital spark. Jackman's throwing is a worry, against a team like Scotland who weren't clinical enough to take advantage was fortunate, unlike the France game, and I'm not sure if we can afford to start him against Wales.
Even when we win well, EOS still bemuses me. First of all the Dempsey/Murphy comments aren't helpful, and the whole substitution thing is mind boggling. Unless there were injuries which weren't apparent, why bother bringing on Stringer? And all the other changes, which seemed to be made for changes sake. Taking off BOD who had a slight niggle makes sense, but if you wanted to give someone a runout (such as Wallace), at least give him some time to play. Trimble, Heaslip, Murphy, Bowe, all played well, but it is only injury and public opinion/pressure which has got these changes through - EOS should be dictating these changes, not the other way round - he should go after this 6Ns.

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posted Feb 24, 2008

Has EOS never heard of 'Succession Planning' All forward thinking organisations do it and all competent CEOs[read:Head Coaches] have it as part of their roles and responsibilities. Anybody who has ever worked with under age rugby knows that it takes a couple of seasons to prepare an outhalf. At international level the stepup is significant and yes we certainly should be blooding new outhalfs particularly as it is the most important position on the pitch

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comment by bigcnee (U1777946)

posted Feb 24, 2008

It seems as though Geordan is the source of a fair few strong opinions, and I must admit to being worried about his inclusion beforehand. The reason for this being his poor performance against France and Italy the week before. In my opinion his poor wing positioning and tackling was largely to blame for at least two of France's tries two weeks ago. I'm not saying this to take anything away from his (excellent) performance yesterday but to explain why some fans have very reasonable problems with his inclusion. Saying that the Dempsey/Murphy debate should now be "put to bed" is ridiculous and is just as silly as those who said that Murphy should never be allowed near a green jersey. The truth is that Murphy has traditionally NOT performed for Ireland. Is this a result of EOS alleged "confidence destruction"? That's actually irrelevant for this debate and arguing otherwise would excuse Murphy from behaving according to what he is: a professional rugby player.
What is clear is that he should get the jersey next week. Wales will provide a completely different attacking threat and I feel Murphy's clear defensive weaknesses could be exposed.
I damn well hope I'm wrong.

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posted Feb 24, 2008

Kinsang, other than Dempseys injury how do you know it was public opinion that swayed eddie's hand,you must have some info the rest of us aren't privy too:-).I agree Eddie should go by the way. I think it's important to realise that we are not the best team in the world and most of the players we have are not the best in the world at they're positions(not even BOD). We have a coach with an excellent win ratio and as bad as it seems he or the players have managed to turn poor performances of the last eight month into an exciting win against the poor scots. I think the provencial coaches have more to answer for than Eddie though, there refusual to trust the younger guys for the bigger games is partly to blame for the slow development of the international team. I know ill get slaughtered for this but Munster last magners game Brian Carney didnt even get the Bench(Who cares some might say) but for a man who needs all the game time he can get it is a mockery of the Big money they paid to get him. Leinster's refusal to play Contipony(sic) in the centre has slowed sextons development and so on. I have been a hugh fan of Tony Buckley since last year and i think he is the Bull's replacement but when will he serious game time? Against the scarlets or ulster? Probably not. Eddie can only pick the players that are playing high level games well over eighty minutes consistintly so let the coaches start helping him develop the senior team by trusting the new guys.

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posted Feb 24, 2008

"its great when a back 3 have tht kind of understanding isnt it? but gimme a break, its part n parcel of rugby, a winger's job."

Yes it is but I think you're missing the point here - where exactly was the fullback if he wasn't there to clean up a kick down the middle of the park? He certainly wasn't on either of the wings as Bowe and Kearney were occupying those spots so what was Murphy doing at that point in time? I take nothing away from Murphy - he had a great game against Scotland but I am still very, very aware of his reckless abandon of position and a better set of backs than Scotland (Read: Wales) will be able to exploit that.

"in the last match against france he didnt do badly. he was left with 2 on 1s, the same as Kearney was today (but Henderson aint quite as good as Clerc et co!) if executed properly its a try, end of story. murphy HAD to go in at the breakdown, it was out wide with a lack of forwards around the play. had he not gone in, they'd have simply gone straight through instead, same end result."

You sound like you've been reading a little too much of the ramblings of someone like Thornley on Murphy;

Let's set this record straight:

there were three rucks in which Murphy was not involved between Murphy clearing out the mentioned ruck and the ball being turned over; after the first ruck, Murphy jogs into the midfield - this part is important: rotating outside backs does not explain why Murphy has taken up a place just to the left of midfield when the ball is so near to the halfway line - if there was a defensive gap it would be understandable, as it would be if Ireland were in attack further up the pitch. As it is, when Murphy makes this decision, Ireland are in possession, ball is slow and there's no space for the backs to operate; since he's not there to cover a defensive hole and there's no opportunity for attack, he has simply abandoned his position to take a little dander into the midfield without just cause.

As stated, there are three subsequent rucks before the ball is turned over. On top of that, France then take the ball through six or seven phases before taking the option to kick, giving Murphy over a minute to get back into his defensive position - when the ball is kicked, Murphy is coming from the midfield line to the left of midfield and Kearney from deeper and wider (exactly where he should be) - since Kearney hadn't rotated it begs the question as to why Murphy was still so far to the left?

Perhaps it's been missed by here but the general consensus of rugby is that you stay on your man; think back to England's first try against Ireland at Twickenham in 2006 - Horgan could easily have come inside and made a tackle on Noon but stayed on his man on the outside; either way, that one was going to be a try but Horgan did the right thing by staying on his man and forcing Noon to do the work.

Regardless of Leamy's position, Murphy, similiarly, should have left it up to Skrela to do the work - by coming inside he left a simple pass to put a much quicker player, who then had an acre to run into.

Also missed by those defending Murphy in this instance was that Murphy totally missed the tackle on Skrela in the first place, which is utterly indefensible; if a player, as a winger, insists on coming off his wing to make a tackle or take an interception than he must take the tackle or interception. If not, there is no defence for abandoning position.

Of France's three tries, two are directly attributable to Murphy's abandon of his position. Your defence here is little short than lies.

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posted Feb 24, 2008

Ireland to win the six nations

they willl beat wales by about 5 points
they will beat england by around 15 points
that will give them the title

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comment by jp2785 (U9366342)

posted Feb 24, 2008

"in the last match against france he didnt do badly. he was left with 2 on 1s" on Murphy

"dempsey DID play badly against france at least IMO. he didnt do anything all game and was nowhere to be seen when france overloaded their left wing, poor covering"

Similar situations isnt it. Yet when it happens Murphy it wasnt bad. Care to explain? Murphy had a very good game yesterday and dont pretend im denying that because ive said it all along but your point on Murphy getting bad press is rediculous. Thats where I brought in Lee Byrne to prove my point. Lee Byrne was incredible for Wales. Easily better than Murphy yet Murphy got rated higher. No one wants to mention his missed tackle on Skrela or poor covering against France even him ruining an east try vs Italy. People say Im one eyed yet I'm the only one looking at all his games. Dont put Mistakes Murphy made down to him playing as a wing. Tackling is not to do with position neither is passing and positioning for a man of his experience is common sense. BTW I never said Id have Dempsey for all those who make out that I think hes undroppable. I would like to see Kearney get a go at FB because hes about as much a winger as Murphy is so if he gets a chance at FB. I think he could be the best all rounded FB we have. Then maybe Horgan could take on ickle shane which would be nice.

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posted Feb 24, 2008

Think that Murphy offers so much more than Dempsey. He can create something from nothing, but O'Sullivan cleary doesn't like him. Murphy wlll be remembered by the fans, Dempsey won't. In terms of the championship megath4life, you seem to have forgotten about France. They will beat Italy easily, which will aid their point difference and they also have a strong chance against Wales, since the Welsh pack won't be able to bully the French like the Irish and English packs did.

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comment by jp2785 (U9366342)

posted Feb 24, 2008

"Think that Murphy offers so much more than Dempsey."

In terms of what people offer kearney has to bring the most. Remember there is a third option people.

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posted Feb 24, 2008

Or a fourth - Luke Fitzgerald arguably has more potential than Kearney

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posted Feb 24, 2008

as a leicester fan, i get to see Geordan in action week in, week out, and i cant think of anyone i'd prefer to see under the high ball than Murphy

yes, he didnt collect all the high balls he went up for yesterday, but those he missed he was jumping against another player on each occasion, having sprinted some distance either from fullback in defence or to chase a garryowen, and i dont believe anyone could expect to gain possession every time in those circumstances

compare that to Balshaw's performance for England - twice he completely missed a high ball, and neither of those was he under any pressure from the French

for me, as an Englishman, i'd select Murphy for his overall contribution - Dempsey *might* be better defensively, and i'm not that sure he is, but in all other areas Murphy is a better player

Hell, if you dont want him, we'll trade you Balshaw for him :)

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posted Feb 24, 2008

jp you were very strong in voicing your opinions on the FB position at the start of this 6Ns...you said Dempsey was brilliant and by far our best FB. Don't pretend any different. how were those situations you cited similar? murphy being left exposed by a lack of other irish player in the vicinity and dempsey not covering...are you trying to say its murphy's fault he was left with a 2 on 1? my respect for you gets less and less with each passing comment you make.


Philip: "Perhaps it's been missed by here but the general consensus of rugby is that you stay on your man"

No, you assess the primary danger. What is the biggest threat? This is a fundamental concept of not just rugby but many sports and in this case had Murphy simply stuck to his man as you suggest Skrela would have ambled to the try line with consumate ease. He didn't simply come inside left, he was trying to cover both options until cover came across, which was too late in coming.

You're wrong in the sense that I have not been listening to any of Thornley's ramblings. Personally I like to make up my own mind on players rather than jumping on a bandwagon.

Murphy's attempted tackle on Skrela came long after he first engaged him, it was a last resort tackle, running backwards trying to contain the 2 on 1 situation. Any possible way you want to put it, there was very little Murphy could do in this situation, other than try to hold up the play and not commit himself. They played the ball around Murphy making him turn here there and everywhere. Had he made the tackle on either player at any time in that move, the ball would have been shipped to the free player. France executed it very well. If you want to look at missed tackles, Kearney made 3 in that match, more than Murphy on the other wing, which was where France played most of their rugby. You then cite this match as showing why Kearney is so much more reliable than Murphy as FB in terms of tackling. Explain.

Regarding the last game where Kearney covered, I don't know where Murphy was as I watched it from home and couldn't see every player on the pitch, but as long as we have one player back there I'm happy. I'd rather assume there was a good collective understanding of the situation and communication rather than blindly criticising the player

Regarding your thoughts on Murphy when France kicked, where was Dempsey by your version of these events? Covering? Covering well? From watching it at the time I saw no problem with Murphy's involvement, but I can't back that up as I haven't seen it since. I can tell you though that Dempsey clearly hadn't seen the danger and most definitely didn't call Murphy back into position, which is a FB's job as he under normal circumstances has the best view of the field.

I think Dempsey is a solid player, as I have said all along, but I feel we need more than just solidity. I agree Kearney has the potential to bring the most, but feel he needs time to get used to the international game and that we have someone more than capable in Murphy.

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comment by jp2785 (U9366342)

posted Feb 24, 2008

Davemim2,

If its a 2 on 1 you take one instead of falling over. In relation to the first try Dempsey tackled Nallet. Murphy saw this and acted as a pillar. last night Kearney had to sprint across the pitch to cover for Murphy.

Your excusing the inexcusible. When Skrela got through. If murphy had gone for Skrela then Dempsey would of taken Clerc. Its easy. You cant excuse the first try. Dempsey could of let Nallet run through but he tackled him relying on Murphy to cover which he should of done even if Dempsey was back. I dont exactly have a great deal of respect for on this matter either. One game doesnt cancel out a load of bad ones. I did say Dempsey was are best FB and I stand by that. One game doesnt cover over his incompetance in others.

Ill ask again:

When is the last time Murphy put two good performances together?

When has Murphy come big when it counts?

Why does Murphy get excused for standing beside of a ruck instead of covering his wing because he was playing wing. He even saw Dempsey make the tackle leading up to the french try meaning if he had any commone sense he would of covered. This isnt a mistake you make because your out of positition neither is missing a tackle on an average out half. These arent mistakes you can blame on him playing out of positition. Why does he get away with that?

last time Murphy got a run of games at FB he handed France the championship aswell as putting in several other unconvincing performances. Why do you want this again?

How can you forget his whole past on one realy good game?

How many games has he lost us as to won us? I bet hes lost us more than he won us.

Oh and to add to the france game this year he kicked the ball away when were pushing hard for a winning try.

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comment by jp2785 (U9366342)

posted Feb 24, 2008

How many games has he lost us as to won us? I bet hes lost us more than he won us.


When has Murphy come big when it counts?

When is the last time Murphy put two good performances together?

Dont see the answers.

Dempsey was back to cover like he always is. Murphy cant be picked on club form because thats not how he'll play for Ireland unlike Heaslip or Kearney.

"then when he gets his chance he takes it, yet you still want rid of him? what more could he have done?"

He could of taken more than on chance. It shouldnt take an International player several chances to perform. Dempsey took all his chances unlike Murphy who took one of many.

"kick was only option when received ball vs france."

He couldnt of ran or passed? We were making ground not like the french defense was unbreakable.

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posted Feb 24, 2008

Geordan had a great game and clearly offers more than Dempsey when played where he should play at FB.
the good news is that he was not the only one to play well however he had challengers for Motm - it could just as easily gone to Ronan who set up with Brian the second try, spotted the opportunity for try 3 and made the crucial pass following Georda's break for the 4th.
Ireland need to continue to improve to deny Wales who yesterday looked the best team in the 6N and will be looking at least for a triple crown if not a grand slam this year - something we could have been up for if we had not been so generous in defence against France - hello Geordan!

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posted Feb 24, 2008

lenister ledge: "Murphy had a good game yesterday, but I don't think you can discard Dempsey solely on the basis of that. He's Ireland's most capped full back and people overlook the fact that he does score a lot of tries,"

Dempsey 81 caps 19 tries
Murphy 55 caps 18 tries

I just wish all the Murphy knockers here were as consistantly critical of every other player on the panel as they are of him. Its actually disgusting the naked hatred here for Murphy. His strike rate and all round play has been exceptional, name one other player who could have turned in a performance like his last night after being dumped home, then call back again, told he will only ever be no 2 fullback and hear EOS announce his absolute delight that Dempsey will definately be back for the Welsh game?

A few years ago when BOD was playing poorly at no 12 people were jumping up and down defending him saying he was playing out of position and rightly so. But when Murphy is playing out of position people here like jp are truely delighted as it will give them a chance to spout their vitirol at him.

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posted Feb 24, 2008

well said grandpa, i really think that jp must be related to Girvan and EOS. Despite my preference for Geordan, I think that Girvan has over the last couple of years done a SOLID job at 15, but they are different players and as i have said on various occasions, Geordan can be the catalyst for the back line and proved so, and the backs functioned better, think if EOS had stuck Girvan on the wing v Clerc he would have struggled too, but not received such vitriolic comments! I will be so disappointed if Geordan gets dropped but it wouldnt surprise me after EOS comments post match, just shows his lack of man management skills

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